7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Toes]

I understand it's a big leap of faith, but I'm personally still holding out hope that the Indoctrination Theory is correct and that tricking us was just a plan that kind-of backfired. If that is the case, my only real issue is the lack of closure.
I don't know if this has been suggested already as I haven't read all 4000+ posts, but my suggestion would be a Darkhorse Comic Epilogue, reflecting the conclusion of all of our choices throughout the series and showing us the what becomes of our friends. Ideally narrated by Lance Henriksen (Admiral Hackett).

On a side note, although I felt incredibly disappointed by the ending, I would still like to say thank you to all at Bioware for an awesome sci-fi journey! I consider myself a complete Mass Effect geek and I still hold you above all other developers for story driven games. It's because your games are so good that I care so much. If it was anything else, I'd just trade it in and forget about it.

Thank you, I hope this helps.
Toes.

[merylisk]

SamFlagg wrote...

Bioware,

With the remarks today that you are attempting to try and fine tune the discrepancy between your fans and the existing artistic vision, allow me to post my most concrete suggestion for doing that.

The ending I'm suggesting perserves the attempt that was made at giving us choices by actually making them choices that are different.

One of our primary concerns was always that the choices presented to us felt as if they had no practical difference behind them.

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I realize that option this does not solve the problems of Anderson getting to the citadel first, or having to pick a renegade option to kill the illusive man, but if the ending itself gets fixed, this becomes a minor point to quibble over.  Maybe have Anderson voice that he hadn't heard from you in half an hour.

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What needs to change is the conversation upstairs.  I do not think the fact that there is a Diablos Ex Machina needs to change, but the dialogue needs to be updated in such a way as to repair the amount of nonsense we are being fed and make it at least nonsense internally consistant with the ME universe.  Heck even throw in a line suggesting that the Reapers feed on Dark Energy (It's a subtle nod to the previous plot thread)

Now the options he gives you should change slightly, they are still Destroy, Control, Synthesis, but the outcomes need to all be stated seperately and made different from each other.  The problem with the endings now is they all boil down to Shepard DiesRelays Die.  (Half second breathing video isn't closure, it's non commital)

Also as a preface, if your War Assets Score is too low, you still get the existing earth burns video.

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My suggestion of what to do with the existing options:

1.) Destroy
- Destroys the reapers, the geth, and the mass relays.  Shepard lives explicitly  (HOWEVER, the God Child needs to tell Shepard that it will kill him as well)
And by Shepard lives, I mean you actually see Shepard get up, you have your cut scene with your remaining alive squad mates in a way similar to the end of ME1.  No dialogue necessary, just an acknowledgement that Shepard is Alive and some of the squad is as well.  (I would suggest variations on the cut scene to account for all possible persons that could be alive, the cut scenes would all be superficially the same with camera pans and scans, but you could actually see people based on whether or not they were alive.)

2.) Synthesis - Does pretty much the same thing, fuses all life together with space magic, leaves the citadel and the mass relays intact.  Shepard dies.
Leaving the relays in tact is key here.  This now gives an option where you can choose to sacrifice Shepard and maintain the current galactic travel situation.  Having this ending kill Shepard as it does now is necessary to give it some narrative balance.
(Cut the Joker nonsense from the existing cutscene and don't blow up the relays, and give some sort of epilouge cut scene for all the other characters)

3.) Control
- Allows Shepard to make a Faustian Bargin with the Reapers.  Earth is saved.  The mass relays and the citadel stay.  In exchange the reapers get to reap all the other aliens of this cycle, and will then go back to dark space afterwards. Shepard dies. (Exception - If you have max renegade points Shepard lives)
While most people aren't death incarnate, there were always the ones who were really disappointed that you couldn't spend the game working for the Illusive Man.  Not only that, if you don't have enough War Assets your only options become Control or Destroy.........Destroy the mass relays and save everyone, or Control the reapers and get the mass relays for Earth and Earth alone?
(Change the cut scene and have the reapers go a reaping, if Shepard managed to live have him sitting in the catalysts room in the Illusive Man's chair watching a dying star or somesuch.  Hell throw in your LI if they're human)


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OFFER OPTION 4
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Option 4 as I describe it, is the "Go to Hell Reaper Kid" option.  It should've been there, we all wanted it.

It can either be implemented as an option before the child stops talking to you, or (even better) make it an option that only shows up if you turn back to him and start up talking to him again.

Then allow this new conversation to proceed allowing Shepard to argue back and forth with the God Child, as you argue you slowly hear the child's voice morphing into Harbingers.  (At some point I want it to be made clear that the options Harbinger offered you were actually 100% true, though he did attempt to lead you to control or synthesis, and is only compelled to offer destroy because it presumed the cost was too high for you to select)

Harbinger says "You can not leave Shepard.  Now you will die"
Shepard says "No, we will die."

--------------------------------

At this point there should be either

1.) Option 4 - a button that makes the crucible do the equivalent of the Star Trek 2 prefix code and take down the shields/barriers of every reaper in the galaxy forever and ever amen.  Then they're easily defeated conventionally

or

2) Shepard calls Admiral Hackett to focus all fire on the Citadel.  (Indicating that the Citadel is in fact the command and control structure of the reapers and its destruction basically has the same effect as option 1)

In either case the results should be: Reapers Die / Galaxy Lives / Citadel Destroyed / Mass Relays Lives / Shepard Dies*

(With enough EMS Shepard Lives)

After that it cuts to either a funeral for Anderson with eulogy given by Shepard or a funeral for Shepard given by Hackett.  And it can have all the squad members still alive in the background (and some Elcor living tanks!)  Again, preference being on a cut scene that the crowd has ME2 and ME3 characters in it that are still alive, and if they're dead swap them out for generics. (Yes it's a lot of conditional cutscening but for the RGB ending they gave us I think its probably not an unfair thing to ask)

What all of this does do however is allow them to change the ending and give us more or less the epilogue for all of the options stated, and it also means there is no additional gameplay.  I'm ok with that, because I think it would be fair easier to implement than asking them to change the ending, add all this epilogue stuff, and add new gameplay, and figure out some way to boss battle harbinger!

The scope of the change would be - rewrite parts of the entire catalyst scene
                                                                - epilogue and new cut scenes
                                                                - option 4 for the Commander Shepard who wouldn't put up with this BS.
                                                                - Elcor Living tanks.  (Er I mean, only Shepard, Hackett, GodChild, and Harbinger would have to have new dialogue, but I wouldn't mind if others did as well)

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TL/DR

Rewrite the GodChild to Make Sense
Give Shepard 4 options to Solve this dilema
1) Destroy - Shepard Lives, Reapers Die, Citadel Dies, Relays Die, Geth Die
2) Synthesis - Shepard Dies, Reapers....do whatever the hell they do in the Synthesis Ending, Citadel Stays, Relays Stay, Everybody gets synthesied.  (Maybe David Archer goes insane)
3) Control - Shepard Dies*, Citadel Stay, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Gonna Get Reaped
4) Sacrifice - Shepard Dies**, Citadel Dies, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Lives
*with high enough renegade points he lives
**with high enough EMS he lives

Add cut scenes and epilogue to make our choices feel different and to give us the wrapup that we were hoping for.

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Artistic Vision
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1.) There become 6 possible endings.  (Control and Sacrifice have Shepard Dies Shepard Lives alternates)
2.) The endings diverge in a meaningful way.
3.) In three endings shepard dies, in one ending shepard lives and loses all the relays,  in one ending Shepard lives and reaps the galaxy.  5 out of the 6 endings are bittersweet.
4.) The remaining ending sacrifice rewards players for extremely high EMS, and gives the portion of the players who would like a happy ending, that happy ending.

For the most part this allows the original vision to stay fairly in tact, while changing many of the elements people have objected too, and keeping Shepard consistant as a character who always had the option to rebel if he thought the answers he was being given were nonsense.

The synthesis ending stays largely the same while leaving the relays intact, and the destruct ending stays largely the same execpt the Shepard has to expressly live.  (And deal with the inferred holocaust)

I think it would be interesting how many people would choose Shepard over the Relays.

This is fantastic. It addresses many of the problems with the current ending while still preserving the ideas behind it (and the integrity of the creators initial vision).

Plus one, hope Bioware is paying close attention here!

Also, I might add that the reason I like this so much is that all these endings seem pretty balanced, while still catering to different player's individual stories.

Modifié par merylisk, 22 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[K2LU533]

My main gripe is with the plot holes, Joker and Normandy escaping? (How and why?) Why does Shep end up in rubble that is clearly not from the Citadel (Indoc theory possible?) Squadmates being on Normany (again, how?). And also the lack of clarity or confusion in some parts; synthesis (how? why? isn't that just doing what the Reapers want? What exactly does that mean for everyone?) Normandy crash landing (again not explained) Why does the 3 final option try and trick you with opposite renegade/paragon colors? Other than that, I thought the game was brilliant, epic, the best one of the three, one of the best games I have ever played. Just let down by the ending somewhat.

[Mineda]

An option that would keep the actual endings and would allow a different one: as many have already suggested, give Sheppard the chance to disagree. He points the gun to the God Child, and at the moment he's pulling the trigger he wakes up (just like the extra renegade ending) and see a dreadnought hitting Harbinger (or something that would put him out of service for awhile). He could then enter the Citadel. Depending on how much of your team (from all games) is alive and EMS you can have different cutscenes and endings. There's room even for a boss battle as Harbinger (who would not be killed even by a dreadnought crash landing on him) could still control some key character (like Sovereign did to Saren). After all endings some cameos of what happened to the galaxy would then bring some closure. This could solve most of the problems without changing the current endings and would instigate replayability as people would like to know what would happen if some character died/survived or if they had less/more EMS.

[SaturnH]

Thanks to Bioware for listening to our feedback. Like many fans, I'd love to see the ending of ME3 live up to the rest of the game. I don't think the ending needs to be completely different, it just needs to be told better.

First off, the final mission in ME3 pales in comparison to ME2 because of the lack of command decisions. ME2 had me decide how to use the assets I collected through the game and these choices, offered during the mission, had a direct impact on the outcome. It made me feel like a Commander. The London mission in ME3 made me feel like a regular soldier. It didn't feel much more climactic than any other mission and didn't make me feel like a Commander of the fleet. Please let us make some choices regarding how to use our assets during the final mission.

The Starchild and its choices are another obvious problem. I kind of like the set up of this scene, but the Starchild's logic is flimsy and contradicts major themes of the series. I wanted nothing more than to argue with it and poke holes in its logic, but the game wouldn't let me. At this most critical moment there was a major disconnect between me and Shepard. I felt like suddenly I wasn't controlling Shepard's actions anymore- I was just along for the ride. It really made my victory feel hollow and handed over. I suggest that this scene be rewritten to give Shepard more dialogue options and to make better sense of the Reapers' motives.

Perhaps the most obvious problem of all is seeing the same cinematic at the end no matter what choices you made. The one-size-fits-all concept flies in the face of everything this game promised. It also wrecks the excellent re-playability the last games had. Yes, Mass Effect fans like different endings!

Finally, my personal biggest issue with the ending is simply the fact that nobody even reacts to Shepard's victory. Aside from two random soldiers in the CG, absolutely NONE of the many, many characters react at all to the fact the war just ended and Shepard is likely dead. This is the biggest, most pivotal, most glorious, most sad moment in the entire ME universe and NOBODY has ANYTHING to say about it. I'm not even sure anyone even noticed that I just stopped the biggest war ever. Guess they weren't paying attention. I don't mind if Shepard dies or even if the mass relays are destroyed- I just want someone to acknowledge what I did.

I don't have any constructive crit for the Normandy crash scene- it only adds confusion and should probably just be cut.

I would hate to lose enthusiasm and respect for the Mass Effect series as I have with Lost and Stephen King's Dark Tower: two examples of quality storytelling severely damaged by their endings. I would gladly pay for DLC that includes the requested changes and I think most ME3 players would pick it up too, if only to see what all the fuss is about. I hope Bioware jumps at this chance to win back their fans while selling some quality DLC. It's a win-win situation.

Modifié par SaturnH, 22 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[Deaddude56]

I would LOVE to see something like this:

Assuming the Indoctrination Theory is correct, I think they should keep the original ending if a post-ending DLC is added.

Your final decision should determine whether your Shepard lives or dies.

If you choose Control or Synthesis, Shepard dies and beating the Reapers becomes a matter of your EMS score. If you had a very high EMS, then your squadmates, your war assets, and the Normandy all take part in the TRUE final push towards beating the Reapers. They end up defeating the Reapers, Shepard is post-humously glorified throughout the galaxy, and you get to see how your decisions affected certain civilazations. Of course, this would be played out all through cutscenes. A low EMS results in the Reapers wiping out all organic life.

But if your Shepard LIVES...

This would only apply if you chose the Destroy option. Shepard watches the final push toward the Citadel beam take place. Broken, battered, and bleeding, Shepard passes out after watching Harbinger be destroyed by all of the galactic civilizations working together. Shepard wakes up in a hospital, ends up describing his dream to someone, and realizes he was indoctrinated (thus explaining the IT to people who didn't understand the ending.) You get to go to each homeworld of the civilizations you helped, and see how your decisions affected everything. You would get to talk to people like Wrex/Wreav, the salarian dalatrass, the quarian ambassadors/the geth, etc.
There would be a few mssions, like cleaning up Cerberus hideaways, or killing any remaining Reaper forces (if any.)

Your last mission would be to retire. Where you retire depends on your LI, or background. If you romanced Tali, you can go to Rannoch, if you romanced Liara, you can go to Thessia, etc. If you didn't romance anyone, you can go to Earth, to the colony where you were from, or back to the space station where you were born.

At this point, there would be a voice over describing what happened to each of the races. Whose voice it is depends on your LI. If you didn't romance anybody, you get to deal with the Stargazer. If you romanced Tali, a quarian would be speaking. If you romanced Garrus, a turian. But if you romanced Liara, Liara herself is speaking. Each would tell their children stories of each civilization in their own, distinct ways. It would be a lot like the Stargazer credits, but without them saying "the Shepard" or having no tech.

[K2LU533]

This isn't about the ending, just some bugs I noticed while on Xbox 360. (not sure if there is a better place for this)

1. Shep and the person they are having a conversation with awkwardly look away from each other while speaking in some conversations.

2. Audio cuts out during some lines spoken by certain characters,

3. When Quarian admirals are on Normandy after Geth ship, one of the admirals head does a near 180 turn, weird.

4. Not a bug as such, but still find it weird when femshep sits like a dude with a dress on...

5. Shields staying on in some conversations.

I will post more when I can remember them.

[MisterSpinger]

I've never spent so much time thinking about a game's ending (or a book's or a movie's for that matter). The night I finished it I had ME3 dreams, that's how much it was in my head! I've enjoyed every minute of all 3 games, and although yes, I was put off by how it ended and have the same questions as a lot of people, I don't think I quite share their rage =). Thank you for creating such a wonderful series!
I did want to share a few points: (some positive, some negative, some which other posters might hate me for)

1) I chose destroy in the end, and at first you see Shepard, barely able to walk, fire off those first couple rounds, then she suddenly stands up, walks strongly, reinvested and determined in those final moments as we see flashes of her crewmates, I found that to be a very powerful moment!

2) Though the catalyst was an odd introduction so late in the game, the motivation behind the reapers (however they came to exist, is the catalyst an AI from a long extinct race?) I actually found very interesting ... reminded me of I, Robot, with the AI deciding people could not be trusted to not destroy themsleves ... actually now that I type it out that's exactly what it was like ... but the rationale was just so late and so brief that it threw us all for a loop.

3) I am very torn on the destruction of the Mass Relays. I appreciate the death and starvation that would result with everyone being stranded, whole story arcs like Wrex and Eve being erased since they're separated now, etc. ... on the other hand, the Reapers claim the relays are theirs, right? Organic life is guided along a path by using what the Reapers provide? So if the Reapers are destroyed, shouldn't all their assets be destroyed as well? This is war, and there will be losses, hell by the end I lost the Quarians AND the Geth! 2 entire races gone (and the Batarians, but they were jerks), but the Reapers were destroyed and that was the goal, so I can live with it, even with my (mostly) Paragon character. Life goes on, even if not for me and some of my squadmates.

4) More than anything else in the entire ending, the scene with the Normandy drives me nuts ... where was it going, and how did my squad from the final mission get there? Honestly if you can answer that, I could probably make peace with the rest.

5) LOTS of people want their choices to matter in the end, and I appreciate that, but to what extent is it possible? At the end of ME1, despite all your choices, Saren and Sovereign are dead, no matter what. There's no option for you and Saren to high five and go drink some beer after breaking his indoctrination. My point is there are limits, and even though it's the very end of the story, and tons of different endings would be great, the case is no different here. (yes, I'm ignoring what was promised over and over) So the Reapers are destroyed or they're not, and then you look at the aftermath, which I think is where people really want to see some variety, but my question is how?
How do you determine if <character_name> lives or dies on an individual basis? Loyalty mission in ME2? How many misisons you took them on? If you just tie it into war assets, you're still negating your previous choices in the other games. And even if such conclusions were given to us, how would we know the reason we saw what we saw? There are so many combinations it could take a lifetime just to sort it all out, unless you're the one doing the programming of course ... I don't need a million variations, but some more details both during and after the final battle would be very satisfying.

I'm sure I could type forever, this is just a fraction of all the stuff boncing around my head, a tribute to just how wonderful this series was and how much I enjoyed it, thank you!

[SirWa11ace]

when I first played through, I took everything at face value, and thus the plot came out underwhelming by the end, with the mass relays dead, the entire galactic fleet doomed in Earth orbit, and the Normandy being the only ship running away, regardless of the choice made. As documented many times elsewhere, this does not gel, even by Battlestar Galactica standards, as a bittersweet ending.

However, after going through and reading about the indoctrination theory, and what the game seems to have attempted to do (if the IT is correct, which I hope it is, give or take), what it needed was to more clearly spell that out. That however is tricky, the point of the indoctrination is to be subtle, so if you go and make it less subtle, it fails to work as a game concept, but there is something that can be added afterwards that will spell this out without ruining the "surprise", whilst keeping the original vision correct, is a single scene, right at the end. Remove the Normandy escape and edit the mass relays explosions to not destroy the relays, but to still fire the signal (unless it's a bad ending, then destroy the relays).

Then, add one single scene of Shepard's body back on Earth, blue skies, rubble etc.. Normandy landing in the background, squad mates there, love interest at the ready, saying "Shepard!". Now, if he chooses an "Indoctrinated" ending, then his body is "husked", if he got the destroy ending, then his body is normal, but he's dead, and if he got the perfect ending, then his body is Normal.

This scene should be done with some kind of white fade in transition to spell out the previous scene was a vision.


This should be easy to do with a shortened runtime on the video clips of the relays firing, firing off the beam that destroys the reapers, but then clip it short (if the readiness is high enough) so that we don't see them blow up, and reuse of existing art assets of Earth rubble, the Normandy, plus a few of the war assets (krogan, elcor or the eclipse) standing by, and a clear skybox from the beginning, as well as existing voice assets from the love interest, which must have said "Shepard!" in the right alarmed tone previously. All art and audio for all this will already exist, so it's mostly a question of building it together, and adding in relevant animation, 5 second clip max, fixes all ills, at least in my eyes, no need for additional custom dialog or anything.

That;'s good enough for me to spell things out clearly at the end, additional space battles not necessary, nor any alteration of any prior conversations or dialog.

Whilst the normandy on Shepard's dream planet gives hope, so does Earth with blue skies in the background, and, just to ram it in, add a flock of birds flying if you must :-)

Modifié par SirWa11ace, 22 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[paxxton]

I own a PC version of Mass Effect 3 and below are some of my thoughts after finishing the SP campaign (which for me IS what Mass Effect is all about).

The journal and side quest mechanics are horrible for the most part. Playing the previous 2 games, I tried to complete every single quest I could find. But this time I left many unfinished. I didn't always remember where exactly I should go to complete the quest. The locations had me running around just to get a NavPoint. As beautifully designed and rendered as they were, visiting the same places ten or more times seems uninteresting. A possible refinement would be a more dynamic map which would display the side quest locations and adapt to the progress of the player (the same for the quest descriptions in the journal). Alternatively, you could make the locations change in a more visible way each time the player visits it (like adding people who wander rather than stand in place until you progress with the main story).

Another thing is how you get involved in the side quests. I know that when people walk around they hear voices of other people. But do you reeally think that everybody would want your help without asking for it. Side quest completion is like making surprise gifts to people on the street. My point is that there should be more direct introduction/invitation to a side quest or at least there should be a possibility to listen to the quest "owner" again.

Now, recovering artifacts feels cheap. I understand that in 22nd century they have VI-ed probes that search the surface of a planet. But I believe it would be more  engaging to land on a planet (even directly on-site like in Normandy Crash Site DLC for Mass Effect 2) and search for yourself.

There was one technical bug that I hated so much. The scanner button (right mouse button) didn't work if it was binded to a non-standard action (like move forward). It almost ruined my experience with the game. That reminds me of an idea of space battles with Reapers after they detect you.

About the ending. If you consider the so-called "Shepard indoctrination theory", it might even open a grand possibility for Mass Effect 4. In this case the current ending might be left as it is. You have an example in the Matrix: Reloaded and the Matrix: Revolutions. I know you've planned for a trilogy but it seems obvious by now that many people just need more. And I'm sure that for all the creative people at BioWare the unplanned ME4 development would be a great journey, so to speak.

I also think that it would be wise to add more discussion options with the characters in the HQ before the not-so-final assualt. Perhaps each character might recall some events and comment on them based on what the player chose to do during those events. With current solution, we are essentially limited to listenning their farewell speeches. But maybe that's exactly what's appropriate here.

On dialogs with the characters. I felt more engaged with the characters of ME2. It might have been due to more question/answer combinations and according discussion adjustments. Maybe the answers would be useless (no ME4 in plans to carry your savegames to) but it would make the experience more life-like.

Some textures on planets in the Galaxy Map loaded with  a lag.

A big issue for me is the level of difficulty which changes to much on a single difficulty setting. Specifically, Cerberus troops are way harder to deal with than Reaper forces (besides Harvesters, Banshees and Brutes). I had to frequently change my difficulty settings due to a rapid progress or lack of thereof. And it's not because you store this setting's value in a savefile.

I would also appreciate more Shepard vs. Reaper combats (maybe but not necessarily some cyber warfare stuff). 2 or 3 are too few in my opinion for a game said to be about Reaper invasion. Actually, sometimes I felt as if I didn't fight them but their troops. That's a subtle but important difference. Remember that Sovereign said that Reaper numbers will darken the skies of every world.

And finally, do something with the subtitles/text size and visibility. I understand that you needed good compression but you have a very diverse fan base. Some people are deaf, other have eye problems. Microscopic subtitles often blending with the background make them think you do not take them seriously. Besides even healthy people complain on that!

OK, so not to leave the impression that I have nothing good to say about the game I must admit that the game is much richer in almost every aspect compared to previous 2 installments. The story is extremely emotional. I almost cried when Liara came with the beacon (maybe it was that piano music or maybe because this single moment showed that there wasn't much hope). The threat of Reapers is strong and prevalent throughout the whole game and the visuals just make it all even more powerful.

I loved the combat system. New moves make it feel right. The weapon choice screen is intuitive and doesn't overwhelm you with info. But I'd welcome a Cancel button that allows me to go back to the Normandy. There should also be means to check what you currently equip in order to decide if you need to upgrade a weapon (when you start a mission there is no turning back and you're stuck with obsolete weapons unless you load a savegame which ruins the continuity of the gameplay).

Btw, Game Saved text overlaps with Ammo indicator on the left side of the screen.

OK, Bioware, I hope this post somehow stands out on this forum so that you actually take attention, read it and hopefully implement at least some of it's suggestions. Thank you for the Mass Effect series. It has been an unforgettable experience. Should you reconsider your plans for ME4 you can count on me buying it!

Modifié par paxxton, 22 mars 2012 - 05:01 .

[AaronMC]

Okay, I guess I'm posting this here since someone suggested I should, hopefully that's okay. This doesn't contain any specific suggested changes as such, it's more of a "I think you did this, maybe you shouldn't" sort of thing

You asked for constructive criticism about the end of Mass Effect 3, so... Here's mine!

First, a couple disclaimers:

Nothing contained herein should be interpreted as a personal attack on anyone. If anything here even seems to suggest I'm insulting anyone it certainly wasn't intentional and I apologize in advance and will change it as quickly as possible.

This is obviously my point of view, my interpretation. I don't claim to represent anyone or anything. I also don't claim that these thoughts are fully formed or fully worked out, so I'm probably going to get some things wrong or miss some important details and of course my opinions might change over time. That said, I
believe my core criticism, as outlined here, is valid enough.

Okay, on with the show!

There is only one aspect of the ending that I feel is worth highlighting at the moment (even though it's far from my only criticism with regards to the ending) which is this: it quite simply betrays everything that all
three games have been about.

Regardless of how you've chosen to play your Shepard, there are consistent themes throughout the Mass
Effect series. Let's chart two of these themes and see how they interact with the ending...

On Synthetic Life:

In Mass Effect 1 you spend a lot of time fighting the Geth, you also have to deal with a few different rogue VIs/AIs. It isn't entirely clear what they represent yet, but there are clear hints. From talking with Tali, you find out that the Geth might have just been defending themselves when they "rebelled"; there are suggestions that the Geth are being used by the Reapers; the AI you disable on the Moonbase is quite clearly both responding in self-defense and terrified (something which I found quite poignant even playing through it the first time, before the release of ME2 or ME3); the AI who holds you hostage on the Citadel is clearly scared of you as well.

In Mass Effect 2, all these elements are expanded upon. The Geth are living, sentient creatures (at least when they're in groups) and not all of them were willing to help the Reapers. The Quarians are shown to have issues with racism towards the Geth and the experiments carried out by Tali's father are clearly portrayed as monstrous. EDI is also unshackled and, when she has a chance to behave however she pleases, stays your friend and ally.

In Mass Effect 3 we see the final development of all these threads. The Geth can become individually sentient and are capable of not only making peace with the Quarians, but they actually prove to prefer that option. The Quarians are shown to have been the aggressors in the Morning War, attempting to carry out a genocide and killing Geth sympathizers amongst their own people. The Geth merely defended themselves, and they still chose a path of self-defense that avoided hurting the Quarians more than absolutely necessary. After all that horror, the Geth are still willing to forgive the Quarians and work with them, if the Quarians can be convinced.

The unshackled EDI also continues to develop into a living, sentient being. She begins to develop her personality and chooses what she believes. It's also revealed that she was that AI on the Moonbase and she confirms that at the time she was simply scared and reacted in fear and self-defense.

The theme here is clear... Whether they're  synthetic or not, living beings are living beings, different as they might be, in the Mass Effect universe they all have agency, they all have feelings, they all want to live, and they all change and grow.  Which is why the next theme is so critical...

Diversity is Awesome and Important:

Everywhere in the Mass Effect universe there is diversity. The value of diversity is so critical to the game world that it's referenced nearly everywhere. Why do the Reapers use the Relays and Citadel? Because they limit diversity, forcing dominant species to develop in a more orderly manner and thus be more easily conquered. Why do the Protheans fall so quickly, despite being so dominant and so technologically advanced? Because they were zealots who believed so strongly in suppressing diversity that  when the Reapers came they couldn't break out of their self-enforced homogenization and adapt to the new threat.

Even the basic function of the Reapers as a plot device relies on the idea of our horror at the thought of a monster that can turn us into something just like them, that can corrupt us and force our bodies to become something different, something not unique, something not us, erasing the variations that allow us to be us and replacing it with a mindless void.

And the games have all shown us the value of a diverse crew, the value of different kinds of people and different perspectives. Our successes in all three games are rooted in listening to those people, in befriending them, in learning from them. We all develop our favorites amongst them because they're all great characters, with a variety of personalities, each hailing from different races and sporting different points of view.

Now there are no aliens in real life, at least so far as we know... So what do you think this work of fiction is doing when it introduces alien life? What do you think it's communicating when it uses something that is shorthand for
"other", such as an alien, and then makes them fully realized characters? What is it saying to us when it makes such a point of making those characters, no matter how alien they are, both someone we can relate to and yet also fundamentally different from most of us?

You can answer those questions however you like, but for myself, I believe the Mass Effect games are telling us that we're all alike in very important ways, and yet the ways in which we're different as equally as important and as vital. And all of this encompasses both organic and synthetic life.

Which brings us to the ending of Mass Effect 3:

In the end, it comes down to confronting the most stupendously evil genocidal being that this or possibly any universe has ever known. He's killed trillions, possibly quadrillions of living beings. But I think we don't really need the numbers, the games have already shown us what kind of horrors the Catalyst has wrought. And now he's going to give us his reasons for doing all of it...

And if you're like me, the big reveal was stunning.

He's racist. That's it.

He believes synthetic life isn't true life, doesn't really have agency, can't really make choices, and I know he believes this because he claims that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life because... They're synthetic. If they truly had agency, synthetic life would be no more dangerous to organic life than, well, organic life is dangerous to organic life. He has no deeper reasoning, no magical insight, he merely believes, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that because synthetics are made of silicon and metal (or whatever they're made of), rather than meatbags, their actions can be boiled down to just their "race".

And so the Catalyst arrives at his "solution" to this perceived problem.

What does that sound like to you? Where else have we experienced "solutions"of this nature? (I honestly have trouble believing the word "solution" got written in the script without realizing the very, very serious associations that the word carries when it comes to genocidal plans, which makes its use all the more troubling. This is in no way intended as an insult or slight against anyone, mind you, just an observation on usage and context.)

If the Catalyst is telling us the truth, then it flies in the face of everything the games have been telling us throughout. It directly contradicts some of the most important themes of all three games. Instead it would be an embracing of the opposite, telling us that by looking different, by being of different origin, some "people" in this universe aren't really "people". How horrible is that?

And if the Catalyst is lying, then why does Shepard just appear to cease caring? Why does Shepard just meekly go along with this obviously troubled being and his false ideas? Why does Shepard barely mutter a word of protest?

This is important because those choices we're given, they're all as monstrous as anything the Catalyst has done.

Choosing to Control is becoming the Catalyst, becoming the monster ourselves. If Shepard dies, what is
left to control the Reapers? Can whatever is left be trusted? If the Catalyst is telling the truth, will we just continue with his "solution" in the end? We risk turning ourselves into the worst murderers the universe has ever known.

Choosing Synthesis is wiping out diversity, assaulting everyone in the entire galaxy in a very personal way on the theory that by erasing our differences, we'll all just suddenly get along. That's the opposite of embracing diversity. And how does this mechanic work? This is important because, well, what is left of people after the change? Does the change erase the previous people and replace them with new ones, thereby in effect murdering everyone in the galaxy simultaneously and replacing them with new husk versions? Does it wipe out their free will in order to prevent them from just creating new purely synthetic life anyway? Does it prevent new purely organic life from evolving? Does it blatantly just use space magic to avoid having to think through the consequences and meaning of  it? (The answer to the last question is probably yes, I'm not sure about the others.)

Choosing Destroy carries out your own personal, smaller scale genocide on living, sentient beings. If the Catalyst is telling the truth, then you're actually acting in self-defense, making this the only thing even close to a reasonably moral choice. But it's still a horrible, horrible choice.

A lot of this might seem to hinge on whether you believe the Catalyst or not, but I'd argue that it doesn't matter. The Catalyst is a monster and I cannot imagine Shepard not at least having the option to do exactly what my Shepard would have done if I'd been given the choice: Refuse.

Tell the Catalyst that you reject the assertion he's making, whether it's true or not, and that you don't believe synthetics are anything less than fully realized sentient beings with agency and the right to exist, that you don't believe in the "solution" or in the Reapers and that you don't believe in wiping out diversity and forcing living beings to become more homogenous. Tell the Catalyst that if these are the only options then we'll take our chances fighting conventionally.

So where's the option to refuse? Where's the option to have the this cycle go out in a blaze of glory, sticking to what they believe is right, all the way to the end. Where's the option, as our last gasp of action, to try to take the Catalyst down with us, maybe give the next cycle a fighting chance?

But the option doesn't exist, which just leaves us with the ending...

And the way I see them these endings can't be easily fixed by clarifying them a little more, they can't be easily fixed by adding a little closure at the end. They betray the very things the game stands for as a work of fiction, as a story, as a work of art. They ask me to accept  that either the Mass Effect universe doesn't believe in diversity, doesn't believe in the value and meaning of that diverse life, or that it does and my Shepard gave up the fight right at the end and willingly became a monster.

Now, I'm not even touching on the other ways I believe the final mission and ending was a letdown as they've been discussed at length elsewhere. And I'm purposefully avoiding offering any thorough ideas on how to fix this. It's your game, your playground, you can do as you please with it. I'm just saying that I enjoyed playing in it and I cared about it, at least right up until it apparently decided that it wasn't going to be the sort of playground I'd enjoy or care about any more. And that's truly disappointing.

Modifié par AaronMC, 22 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[camcon2100]

Since they are intent on leaving the current endings, they should give us a 4th option. This option argues the star child's logic. Telling him his logic is faulty. If your Shep agree's he's free to choose from RGB. If not we tell him the reason we are powerful is we are unique. Tell him he can't play god, tell him to basically F*ck off! Then he'll watch as your fleet (depending on the war assets) tear the reapers apart. No destroyed citadel no destroyed Relays. The galaxy is free from the Reaper threat although suffer very heavy losses. There everyone's happy

[Good_Chaos7]

Please don't take this as a negative review.. Some of what we want is in this video!

Please take Notes!!

P.S.

Yeah, I suck at notes & leaving my thoughts in writing.. but to me, a picture is always worth a thousand words!

[Lili77]

My concerns about the ending.

1 - My choices so far:
 
Curing (or not) the genophage, saving the Rachni, the Quarian/Geth
conflict, all this is resolved playing through ME3, and choices in the
previous installments do matter. But the ending made me feel it was not
worth as it doesn't have any influence on the final choice that decide
the fate of the galaxy. (or at least is there some hope that it will
change something in the future? call it a lack of epilogue)

2 - The Catalyst:
 
I'm ok with the last decision being a tough one but according to my
play style I wouldn't choose any of them. I miss the way to send him to
kingdom come with his logic and his reapers to have the opportunity to
rebuild the galaxy with hope of a better future.

3 - The Reapers:
 
Their true motivation remains unknown until meeting the catalyst.
Turning them from mysterious genocidal super-entities into puppets in 5
minutes was a bit disappointing. It doesn't explain why they were so
interested in humanity's genetic diversity and why the need of a
humanoid reaper.

4 - Shepard must die?:
 
He (or she) is not invincible, he already died once. Sacrifice is
acceptable although I don't think it fits the setting of this trilogy.
But (I won't speculate on the gasping breath cinematic) is it the way it
must ends in all cases?

5 - The fate of his crew:
  Why do some of his squadmates end on an unknown planet? Why is the Normandy fleeing away?

6 - Speculation or imagination:
 
This is subjective but as an explanation behind the reapers threat was
given I'd rather like to have enough answers to imagine the fate of
galaxy (I see imagination in a positive way) than speculate on an ending
with no answers or evasive answers.

[Kesak12]

I would like to see some diffrent endings and mabye one with a happy ending were shepard comes back alive to his/her LI if you have the max EMS and galaxy readyness. I would also like to see some things that explain some of the plotholes in the story like the normany out of the sol relay and so on.

[Irishkev]

I have a quesiton about the green ray the new DNA option. In conrad side mission you clearly state the weapon uses dark energy. Yet dark energy does not combine anything at all it actually does the oppiste in which it tear things apart so how can the weapon combine shep and machine together.

That tells me that either needs more detail on how it works or the weapon can never actually do that.

[stiry85]

Can we get an option to really call up the council and hang up on them, you know for old time's sake?

[Irishkev]

Lili77 wrote...

3 - The Reapers:
 
Their true motivation remains unknown until meeting the catalyst.
Turning them from mysterious genocidal super-entities into puppets in 5
minutes was a bit disappointing. It doesn't explain why they were so
interested in humanity's genetic diversity and why the need of a
humanoid reaper.

I actually know the answer to that one well before the ending changed from dark energy. they basically were intrested in our gentics as they thought we could help them solve a problem that happens every 50k years with dark energy which is why they need to reset the cycle so they speak. they thought our gentics could help them solve that issue which is why the went after humans specfially.

It would also explain why they didn't shut down Mass relays in ME3 because they were running out of time it was already statting to affect planets *talis loyal mission* so what the plan was  to let all the galaxy come to one place wipe them out quick.

Now god knows when they decied to drop the dark energy plot as it's even in a side mission with conrad in the citadel so must of been very late in development

Modifié par Irishkev, 22 mars 2012 - 01:22 .

[Mazrodak]

 When I first saw the ending, it felt cheasy, especially the dialogue. I didn't mind the catalyst taking the form of the child, I liked that actually, but the bluntness and simplistic dialogue disappointed me. By making the choices so cut and dry, and steering me towards one as the correct choice (synthesis) I felt dissapointed. I was also especially dissappointed in how my choices in the game had little to no impact. I must say, I expected a dragon age: origins style epilogue text sequence to explain what everyone was doing after that, how the fleets got back to their homeworlds, etc. and when I didn't receive one, I felt the ending was very inadequate. Not because I didn't like the artistic path the developers chose (although I'm not a big fan of synthesis) but because for the first time in any mass effect game, the dialogue seemed corny and poorly written, my previous choices seemed not to matter, and I was being subtly told what the "correct" decision was. In the past, there were no obviously "right" decisions, and I liked that. It was like real life, decisions were shades of gray, and you never knew if you made the right choice until the fecal matter hit the fan. But even though I thought the ending was inadequate, I wasn't angry yet. Confused, yes. Irritated, a little. Dissapointed, completely.(although I was irritated that my choice to destroy the reapers destroyed the normandy. That made no sense to me) I became angry, truly angry, when I looked up the other endings and found that minus a few very small changes, they were identical.

That made me furious. There were three "different" endings masquerading the same confusing cutscene. I felt cheated, manipulated, and lied too. If there was only one ending cutscene, that'd be one thing, but to change the color of the fireball and call it new just ticked me off. Before the game was released, my friends and I were trying to explain our excitement about the game to a non-gamer friend. When he asked us how we knew it was going to be good, we all agreed it was because "Bioware made it." I honestly don't know about that anymore. Up until I met the catalyst, this was going to be on the top 3 list of best games I'd ever played, and was definately the best Mass Effect game. I was looking forward to replaying it many times as I did Mass Effect 2. But to find the ending to be presenting a mere illusion of choice disheartened me.

I was dissapointed Shepard never got to live his life with Liara, or follow Garrus's retirement plan. I was completely confused as to why controlling the reapers would kill him, did not at all like how the mass relays were destroyed (how are the other races in the fleet getting home?) and about why the normandy crashed, or how my squad members who supposedly were killed by Harbinger were back on the Normandy, or how none of these things were explained. But I accept that as not my decision, that's the writer's decision no matter how much I disagreed with, or how much I would love to see it changed. (And I would love to see it changed) But disguising one slightly changed cutscene as three choices? That's just playing dirty. And I can't stand that one bit.

Tl;dr: Ending in general dissapointed and confused me, but the 3 choices leading to one slightly altered cutscene made me furious, and question my faith in Bioware.

[JmyRoman]

Have posted comment about this before just expanding/explaining a little better.

In regards to the Promote feature option with multiplayer. 
Since the option to promote is there I feel that choosing to promote should be more rewarding.
To experience the single player story at its best should not be dependant on the multiplayer promotion aspect. However, since it is there it needs to be more rewarding. i feel that it should be. anyone on board with this addition. 
When we choose to hit that promote button we should feel as players that we are getting or adding something extra to that story that is worth while. 

For example: Would be worth it if someone chooses to promote enough to have over 1000 N7 war assets and that in turn ended up affecting the final better or final run for the citadel portal beam to play out in a more positive way. 

Or you promoted enough so that when in the last mission when the second shuttle with the heavy weapons to take down the reaper anit air cannon is shot down instead of shephard having to go out of his way to eliminate it he or higher command tasks the N7 assets to take it down instead, then showing a epic scene of a sizeable n7 taskforce  depending on how many times you promoted take down that anti air canon. 

this is just an idea or thought to increase or keep multiplayer going. 
the promoting feature should be more worth it. 
Anyone else have any thoughts on this matter to make the promote feature really worth it. 
what do you all think about it?

[Gojeran]

Not sure if you know this but saying Checkmate does not make anything you say correct or intelligent.
I can do it do... the OP eats babies, checkmate!

[Warbuckaz]

First I want to start off by saying I enjoyed the Mass Effect ride the games have been nothing short of excellent up until the ending and the system which determines them.

My major complaint are

#1 that too much emphasis was placed on multiplayer being the means to increase galactic readiness - although it was said you can achieve the best (if there is such a thing) ending without even touching MP. I find this very difficult to believe and to pull off. I would love for Bioware to say specifically how this is supposed to be achieved.

#2 the Squad from ME2 is underutilized (cameos etc.). For all intensive purposes ME2 is the reason I actually purchased ME1. That being said, I wouldn’t mind a mission or two where those character are a part of your party one last time. Or maybe for the final push have the entire team accompany Shepard with only 3 being directly controllable... Hell with all the banshees thrown in at the end I could've used all the help I can get.


#3 whatever happened to the Protheans that made it to the citadel? And the secret origin/purpose of the keepers. It was kind of a letdown to see that one keeper in the area with the piles of body but not address why it was even there. I think it would be nice for Javik to find out there are actually more Protheans that survived but are in hiding. he seemed all too excited to learn about Ilos only to be told none survived.

# 4. I think most have touched on the fact that any choice results in the destruction of the mass relays...which utterly ridiculous for a number of reason (stranded alien races? Arrival DLC??

#5. What was the point of the miracle email from ME2 if no miracle cure could be made to reverse Keplers syndrome....I guess it really can’t happen to you after all.

#6. No end Boss ...I would've loved to square off against Harbinger. Not to mention the “aim for the eye strategy” wasn’t would be usefully to take out the first wave of reapers …maybe the remaining would adapt to  the strategy afterwards  but It would’ve  been great to hit the reapers a “surprise ****es” strategy. After all I think a little pay back is in order for the worlds the attacked.

#7. As for as the explanation that was given for why the reaper are what they are or whatever the dead Jedi ghost was trying to explain, was completely lost, for the first five minutes I thought I was either incredible stupid or I severely F’d  up in my play-through to get such horrible results.

[Amschel]

SamFlagg wrote...

Bioware,

With the remarks today that you are attempting to try and fine tune the discrepancy between your fans and the existing artistic vision, allow me to post my most concrete suggestion for doing that.

The ending I'm suggesting perserves the attempt that was made at giving us choices by actually making them choices that are different.

One of our primary concerns was always that the choices presented to us felt as if they had no practical difference behind them.

------------------------------------------------------------

I realize that option this does not solve the problems of Anderson getting to the citadel first, or having to pick a renegade option to kill the illusive man, but if the ending itself gets fixed, this becomes a minor point to quibble over.  Maybe have Anderson voice that he hadn't heard from you in half an hour.

-----------------------------------------------------------

What needs to change is the conversation upstairs.  I do not think the fact that there is a Diablos Ex Machina needs to change, but the dialogue needs to be updated in such a way as to repair the amount of nonsense we are being fed and make it at least nonsense internally consistant with the ME universe.  Heck even throw in a line suggesting that the Reapers feed on Dark Energy (It's a subtle nod to the previous plot thread)

Now the options he gives you should change slightly, they are still Destroy, Control, Synthesis, but the outcomes need to all be stated seperately and made different from each other.  The problem with the endings now is they all boil down to Shepard DiesRelays Die.  (Half second breathing video isn't closure, it's non commital)

Also as a preface, if your War Assets Score is too low, you still get the existing earth burns video.

-----------------------------------------------------------

My suggestion of what to do with the existing options:

1.) Destroy
- Destroys the reapers, the geth, and the mass relays.  Shepard lives explicitly  (HOWEVER, the God Child needs to tell Shepard that it will kill him as well)
And by Shepard lives, I mean you actually see Shepard get up, you have your cut scene with your remaining alive squad mates in a way similar to the end of ME1.  No dialogue necessary, just an acknowledgement that Shepard is Alive and some of the squad is as well.  (I would suggest variations on the cut scene to account for all possible persons that could be alive, the cut scenes would all be superficially the same with camera pans and scans, but you could actually see people based on whether or not they were alive.)

2.) Synthesis - Does pretty much the same thing, fuses all life together with space magic, leaves the citadel and the mass relays intact.  Shepard dies.
Leaving the relays in tact is key here.  This now gives an option where you can choose to sacrifice Shepard and maintain the current galactic travel situation.  Having this ending kill Shepard as it does now is necessary to give it some narrative balance.
(Cut the Joker nonsense from the existing cutscene and don't blow up the relays, and give some sort of epilouge cut scene for all the other characters)

3.) Control
- Allows Shepard to make a Faustian Bargin with the Reapers.  Earth is saved.  The mass relays and the citadel stay.  In exchange the reapers get to reap all the other aliens of this cycle, and will then go back to dark space afterwards. Shepard dies. (Exception - If you have max renegade points Shepard lives)
While most people aren't death incarnate, there were always the ones who were really disappointed that you couldn't spend the game working for the Illusive Man.  Not only that, if you don't have enough War Assets your only options become Control or Destroy.........Destroy the mass relays and save everyone, or Control the reapers and get the mass relays for Earth and Earth alone?
(Change the cut scene and have the reapers go a reaping, if Shepard managed to live have him sitting in the catalysts room in the Illusive Man's chair watching a dying star or somesuch.  Hell throw in your LI if they're human)


---------------------
OFFER OPTION 4
---------------------

Option 4 as I describe it, is the "Go to Hell Reaper Kid" option.  It should've been there, we all wanted it.

It can either be implemented as an option before the child stops talking to you, or (even better) make it an option that only shows up if you turn back to him and start up talking to him again.

Then allow this new conversation to proceed allowing Shepard to argue back and forth with the God Child, as you argue you slowly hear the child's voice morphing into Harbingers.  (At some point I want it to be made clear that the options Harbinger offered you were actually 100% true, though he did attempt to lead you to control or synthesis, and is only compelled to offer destroy because it presumed the cost was too high for you to select)

Harbinger says "You can not leave Shepard.  Now you will die"
Shepard says "No, we will die."

--------------------------------

At this point there should be either

1.) Option 4 - a button that makes the crucible do the equivalent of the Star Trek 2 prefix code and take down the shields/barriers of every reaper in the galaxy forever and ever amen.  Then they're easily defeated conventionally

or

2) Shepard calls Admiral Hackett to focus all fire on the Citadel.  (Indicating that the Citadel is in fact the command and control structure of the reapers and its destruction basically has the same effect as option 1)

In either case the results should be: Reapers Die / Galaxy Lives / Citadel Destroyed / Mass Relays Lives / Shepard Dies*

(With enough EMS Shepard Lives)

After that it cuts to either a funeral for Anderson with eulogy given by Shepard or a funeral for Shepard given by Hackett.  And it can have all the squad members still alive in the background (and some Elcor living tanks!)  Again, preference being on a cut scene that the crowd has ME2 and ME3 characters in it that are still alive, and if they're dead swap them out for generics. (Yes it's a lot of conditional cutscening but for the RGB ending they gave us I think its probably not an unfair thing to ask)

What all of this does do however is allow them to change the ending and give us more or less the epilogue for all of the options stated, and it also means there is no additional gameplay.  I'm ok with that, because I think it would be fair easier to implement than asking them to change the ending, add all this epilogue stuff, and add new gameplay, and figure out some way to boss battle harbinger!

The scope of the change would be - rewrite parts of the entire catalyst scene
                                                                - epilogue and new cut scenes
                                                                - option 4 for the Commander Shepard who wouldn't put up with this BS.
                                                                - Elcor Living tanks.  (Er I mean, only Shepard, Hackett, GodChild, and Harbinger would have to have new dialogue, but I wouldn't mind if others did as well)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

TL/DR

Rewrite the GodChild to Make Sense
Give Shepard 4 options to Solve this dilema
1) Destroy - Shepard Lives, Reapers Die, Citadel Dies, Relays Die, Geth Die
2) Synthesis - Shepard Dies, Reapers....do whatever the hell they do in the Synthesis Ending, Citadel Stays, Relays Stay, Everybody gets synthesied.  (Maybe David Archer goes insane)
3) Control - Shepard Dies*, Citadel Stay, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Gonna Get Reaped
4) Sacrifice - Shepard Dies**, Citadel Dies, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Lives
*with high enough renegade points he lives
**with high enough EMS he lives

Add cut scenes and epilogue to make our choices feel different and to give us the wrapup that we were hoping for.

--------------------
Artistic Vision
----------------------
1.) There become 6 possible endings.  (Control and Sacrifice have Shepard Dies Shepard Lives alternates)
2.) The endings diverge in a meaningful way.
3.) In three endings shepard dies, in one ending shepard lives and loses all the relays,  in one ending Shepard lives and reaps the galaxy.  5 out of the 6 endings are bittersweet.
4.) The remaining ending sacrifice rewards players for extremely high EMS, and gives the portion of the players who would like a happy ending, that happy ending.

For the most part this allows the original vision to stay fairly in tact, while changing many of the elements people have objected too, and keeping Shepard consistant as a character who always had the option to rebel if he thought the answers he was being given were nonsense.

The synthesis ending stays largely the same while leaving the relays intact, and the destruct ending stays largely the same execpt the Shepard has to expressly live.  (And deal with the inferred holocaust)

I think it would be interesting how many people would choose Shepard over the Relays.

I just wanted to show my support for this suggestion. I feel that it is the best compromise between the fans that like the ending and those that do not. It keeps the three original choices for the most part, I would hope that people who liked the ending would be ok with this. The three choices are still mostly the same but now they actually get some different cutscenes along with some actual closure. It also adds a fourth option witch I personally believe, and i think a lot of other fans would also believe, would be the choice of my Shepard. It was frustraiting to be forced to blindly accept the three choices this random new character gives us in a few minutes of dialogue.

Thank you for the great suggestion SamFlagg. I hope Bioware looks closely at this one.

[Dvert]

SamFlagg wrote...

Bioware,

With the remarks today that you are attempting to try and fine tune the discrepancy between your fans and the existing artistic vision, allow me to post my most concrete suggestion for doing that.

The ending I'm suggesting perserves the attempt that was made at giving us choices by actually making them choices that are different.

One of our primary concerns was always that the choices presented to us felt as if they had no practical difference behind them.

------------------------------------------------------------

I realize that option this does not solve the problems of Anderson getting to the citadel first, or having to pick a renegade option to kill the illusive man, but if the ending itself gets fixed, this becomes a minor point to quibble over.  Maybe have Anderson voice that he hadn't heard from you in half an hour.

-----------------------------------------------------------

What needs to change is the conversation upstairs.  I do not think the fact that there is a Diablos Ex Machina needs to change, but the dialogue needs to be updated in such a way as to repair the amount of nonsense we are being fed and make it at least nonsense internally consistant with the ME universe.  Heck even throw in a line suggesting that the Reapers feed on Dark Energy (It's a subtle nod to the previous plot thread)

Now the options he gives you should change slightly, they are still Destroy, Control, Synthesis, but the outcomes need to all be stated seperately and made different from each other.  The problem with the endings now is they all boil down to Shepard DiesRelays Die.  (Half second breathing video isn't closure, it's non commital)

Also as a preface, if your War Assets Score is too low, you still get the existing earth burns video.

-----------------------------------------------------------

My suggestion of what to do with the existing options:

1.) Destroy
- Destroys the reapers, the geth, and the mass relays.  Shepard lives explicitly  (HOWEVER, the God Child needs to tell Shepard that it will kill him as well)
And by Shepard lives, I mean you actually see Shepard get up, you have your cut scene with your remaining alive squad mates in a way similar to the end of ME1.  No dialogue necessary, just an acknowledgement that Shepard is Alive and some of the squad is as well.  (I would suggest variations on the cut scene to account for all possible persons that could be alive, the cut scenes would all be superficially the same with camera pans and scans, but you could actually see people based on whether or not they were alive.)

2.) Synthesis - Does pretty much the same thing, fuses all life together with space magic, leaves the citadel and the mass relays intact.  Shepard dies.
Leaving the relays in tact is key here.  This now gives an option where you can choose to sacrifice Shepard and maintain the current galactic travel situation.  Having this ending kill Shepard as it does now is necessary to give it some narrative balance.
(Cut the Joker nonsense from the existing cutscene and don't blow up the relays, and give some sort of epilouge cut scene for all the other characters)

3.) Control
- Allows Shepard to make a Faustian Bargin with the Reapers.  Earth is saved.  The mass relays and the citadel stay.  In exchange the reapers get to reap all the other aliens of this cycle, and will then go back to dark space afterwards. Shepard dies. (Exception - If you have max renegade points Shepard lives)
While most people aren't death incarnate, there were always the ones who were really disappointed that you couldn't spend the game working for the Illusive Man.  Not only that, if you don't have enough War Assets your only options become Control or Destroy.........Destroy the mass relays and save everyone, or Control the reapers and get the mass relays for Earth and Earth alone?
(Change the cut scene and have the reapers go a reaping, if Shepard managed to live have him sitting in the catalysts room in the Illusive Man's chair watching a dying star or somesuch.  Hell throw in your LI if they're human)


---------------------
OFFER OPTION 4
---------------------

Option 4 as I describe it, is the "Go to Hell Reaper Kid" option.  It should've been there, we all wanted it.

It can either be implemented as an option before the child stops talking to you, or (even better) make it an option that only shows up if you turn back to him and start up talking to him again.

Then allow this new conversation to proceed allowing Shepard to argue back and forth with the God Child, as you argue you slowly hear the child's voice morphing into Harbingers.  (At some point I want it to be made clear that the options Harbinger offered you were actually 100% true, though he did attempt to lead you to control or synthesis, and is only compelled to offer destroy because it presumed the cost was too high for you to select)

Harbinger says "You can not leave Shepard.  Now you will die"
Shepard says "No, we will die."

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At this point there should be either

1.) Option 4 - a button that makes the crucible do the equivalent of the Star Trek 2 prefix code and take down the shields/barriers of every reaper in the galaxy forever and ever amen.  Then they're easily defeated conventionally

or

2) Shepard calls Admiral Hackett to focus all fire on the Citadel.  (Indicating that the Citadel is in fact the command and control structure of the reapers and its destruction basically has the same effect as option 1)

In either case the results should be: Reapers Die / Galaxy Lives / Citadel Destroyed / Mass Relays Lives / Shepard Dies*

(With enough EMS Shepard Lives)

After that it cuts to either a funeral for Anderson with eulogy given by Shepard or a funeral for Shepard given by Hackett.  And it can have all the squad members still alive in the background (and some Elcor living tanks!)  Again, preference being on a cut scene that the crowd has ME2 and ME3 characters in it that are still alive, and if they're dead swap them out for generics. (Yes it's a lot of conditional cutscening but for the RGB ending they gave us I think its probably not an unfair thing to ask)

What all of this does do however is allow them to change the ending and give us more or less the epilogue for all of the options stated, and it also means there is no additional gameplay.  I'm ok with that, because I think it would be fair easier to implement than asking them to change the ending, add all this epilogue stuff, and add new gameplay, and figure out some way to boss battle harbinger!

The scope of the change would be - rewrite parts of the entire catalyst scene
                                                                - epilogue and new cut scenes
                                                                - option 4 for the Commander Shepard who wouldn't put up with this BS.
                                                                - Elcor Living tanks.  (Er I mean, only Shepard, Hackett, GodChild, and Harbinger would have to have new dialogue, but I wouldn't mind if others did as well)

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TL/DR

Rewrite the GodChild to Make Sense
Give Shepard 4 options to Solve this dilema
1) Destroy - Shepard Lives, Reapers Die, Citadel Dies, Relays Die, Geth Die
2) Synthesis - Shepard Dies, Reapers....do whatever the hell they do in the Synthesis Ending, Citadel Stays, Relays Stay, Everybody gets synthesied.  (Maybe David Archer goes insane)
3) Control - Shepard Dies*, Citadel Stay, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Gonna Get Reaped
4) Sacrifice - Shepard Dies**, Citadel Dies, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Lives
*with high enough renegade points he lives
**with high enough EMS he lives

Add cut scenes and epilogue to make our choices feel different and to give us the wrapup that we were hoping for.

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Artistic Vision
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1.) There become 6 possible endings.  (Control and Sacrifice have Shepard Dies Shepard Lives alternates)
2.) The endings diverge in a meaningful way.
3.) In three endings shepard dies, in one ending shepard lives and loses all the relays,  in one ending Shepard lives and reaps the galaxy.  5 out of the 6 endings are bittersweet.
4.) The remaining ending sacrifice rewards players for extremely high EMS, and gives the portion of the players who would like a happy ending, that happy ending.

For the most part this allows the original vision to stay fairly in tact, while changing many of the elements people have objected too, and keeping Shepard consistant as a character who always had the option to rebel if he thought the answers he was being given were nonsense.

The synthesis ending stays largely the same while leaving the relays intact, and the destruct ending stays largely the same execpt the Shepard has to expressly live.  (And deal with the inferred holocaust)

I think it would be interesting how many people would choose Shepard over the Relays.

Plus one for this suggestion.

I would also like to say thank you to Bioware for 5 years of Mass Effect and for even considering changing the ending for the fans, you didn't have to as it is your piece of art after all, but we appreciate it alot. Your fans wouldn't have been so upset if we didn't think you could have done better.

Modifié par Dvert, 22 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[Coconut_Monkey]

I know I have posed before and I further know I may get trashed for this but...

Just to let Bioware know I am a capitalist - I have no problem paying extra for the suggestions posted here.

"Certainly he can present a bill for such services; after all... we are not Communists." - Barzini

I would also add if:

Shepard is all dead instead of mostly dead this time then I would really like to see Tali + Veetor, I know he was ready for the fuzzel factory but I just think she has earned someone nice. Veetor being the only one left since Reegar was shot full of holes on Palaven (Garrus can have Dr. Michelle )

"All you needed was a pretty woman to make you feel better." - The Shepard

If Shepard doesn't buy it, I would like to see his romance completed in some way.

P.S. Personally I am indifferent to Shepard's fate - Just play me "Sergeant MacKenzie" when we last see him and I am fine.

No matter the outcome thank you for listening Bioware.