7052 réponses à ce sujet

[BFG Achilies]

jsblake01 wrote...

 I have played many games through the years and by far the mass effect trilogy has been my absolute fave.

The issue of the ending: From an artistic story the endings all make sence. However for many devoted gamers they have become so attached to the characters in a real tangable way that not haveing an opertunity to have the happy ending (shep lives and gets their lover too) feels like a choice has been with held from them. It is simple physicology. players want the oppertunity to be the hero and survive and live happily ever after. That being said, it has been the emotional response they have been acustomed to in the previous 2 games. What it comes down to really, is Bioware made such a great game that brought true emotion and love for the universe and characters they created.  This intense care for biowares creation is a postive outcome. they did their job more than well, they were magnificent. It has been a very nartural response from many fans of the mass effect universe, I believe the criticism in many cases have been more than that, and I apolagise for them. We all love the games dearly.  It feels kinda funny, You created us the fans and now were turning on our creators, lol.

Closure:  It is a natural human response to want to know what happend next. I think even more to the point, everybody just wants to know what happend to their friends. Did they survive, what did they go through, is there somthing next on the horizon for them. The universe is not as important to us as those amazing characters you created for us to fall in love with. not to say the universe isnt important, its just the canvese that you painted on. I beleive for most gamers this is what they would like to know, the mystery of the state of the universe will come out in the next game (hint).

Anyway, I just wanted to tell all of you at bioware to keep your chins up and held high, you made an amazing game trilogy. And your support for us the fans is fantastic (for me the proof was in lair of the shadow braoker dlc) thx bioware for all youve done.

for many of us its not about a happy ending.  although i was dissapointed that there wasnt a shepard survives situation i understand that its not always possible.  
i for one am more upset with the fact that it does NOT make sense when plugged into the rest of the series, the original ending did not have anything to do with synthetics rising up and destroying people.


all i can think about is how out of place the dialogue was when shepard was suddenly debating whether or not synthetics would always rise up.  when i got to the reaper on Rannoch i was left scratching my head because shepard suddenly said that organics and synthetics dont have to destroy each other.  there was so much of the games that didnt make sense.

[evan365]

First of all, i didnt have much problems with the ending. The way the war unfolded and the decision at the end were excellent and meaningful. they really made you think and no ending was cut and dry, i enjoyed that. however, my issues with it were this; not enough closure for the squadmates and characters i have come to love. d like to have seen what became of garrus and liara and the rest. I wont offer any suggestions thats for the writers to decide, id just like more clarity. The other problem i had was the destruction of the mass relays. You just defeated the reapers by coming together and co operating, then the galaxies lines of travel and communication are destroyed. i understand that it signified a new beginning. The galaxy would establish its own rules and ways forward, but i think destroying the mass relays was going too far!
 
Id just like to finish by saying this was an amazing game and for the most part the ending was fine, i lokkforward to playong the dlc in the future.

[Aarkaan]

I dont get how TIM take control of the citadel so easy, sure he had reaper tech, but I recall this ****** up asari whit some unfinished business with him. Not to mention the SPECTERS that were there. Come on BW you can make this way, Way...Bigger.

That ending had nothing sweet in it, only bitter. cause if I buy other ME game I sure dont want a pre-quel like STRWS episode 1,2 & 3. I want some Legacy in it. dont mess with the Mass Relays.

And yes I do want more choices at the end, make the hard work and loyalty of 5 years to ME and you counts.

I heard that there is a way to safe Anderson, at the end. Dose anyone know how?

How the hell dose my team mates of the final push, the one with me went the reaper hits got on the Normandy?

The Normandy was in the middle of a war, and then it was just in front of the Sol Mass Relay. Please dont come Up with the crap that they were rethreading, cause Joker would never do that.

How the hell if the Mass Relays explode does the Sol system remain intact?

I want the opportunity to shoot at the TIM at least 5 to 10 times. He did make life miserable since the game began. "the last shoot most be in the head.

You cant take Bruce Willies out of Die Hard, Luke from STRWS, Mickey from Disney.
Dont take Sheppard and Anderson like that.... remember 5 to 10 shoots...

either way it something to my mind Ill posted. Thanks for listen or reading or whatever your doing...

10/10 for the first 90% of he game, 4/10 for, well you all ready now.

Oh! could it be possible to at the 5 to 10 shoots to Udina? Come on just one?

[TheCinC]

-The real ending of course, as discussed elsewhere, as a free patch. We already paid for the game.

-Please fix the face import bug as already promised.

-More conversation options between Shepard and his or her love interest. Mine is Liara and most of the time all she says is 'hello' even though she has long conversations, over the comms for some reason, with just about everyone else. Also, actual conversation options in the conversations, including perhaps paragon and renegade choices. I also don't mind talking about our missions a bit more, but I would especially like to be able to reestablish a relationship with Liara sooner. I didn't get the Lair of the Shadowbroker content for nothing and I chose all the right options to tell Liara I was still interested. More substance to the joining of consciousness at the start of the London mission, perhaps seeing a memory from when Liara was a child? Additionally, there should be such a tender moment for each possible love interest before the final mission.

-All love interests of ME1 and ME2 should be available as love interests again, provided they are alive.

-More conversation option with former squadmates, such as about the final parts of ME2. The two squadmates that helped defeat the human Reaper should have something to say about that episode specifically, or other squadmates about whatever role they played there or Miranda about recovering from the wound she received at the door.

-More conversation options with the regular crew, including the creepy one who keeps following you around and only salutes Shepard. These are live people right?

-All former squadmates who are still alive should be recruitable, including Thane. He got a blood transfusion from his son, but he is still dying? He should at least recover and be able to see it through to the end. Considering all the time we spent in ME2, recruiting squadmates, it is a bit odd we aren't able to recruit them again. They already know what is at stake. Jacob's family is no safer with him around than with him helping Shepard to save the universe. This, however, could be DLC.

-All squadmates should at least be able to carry an assault rifle. That they can't work with a sniper rifle is one thing, but assault rifles are the mainstay of any army and can be wielded even by inexperienced soldiers or civilians.

-More bonus powers, the ability to drop standard powers, like adrenaline rush, which I don't use at all. Also, you should certainly be able to keep the ones you had in ME3. My Shepard had Reave when she ended ME2, in ME3 that power is gone and I am unable to gain it, unless I recruit Kaiden Alenko who, lo and behold, was toast the moment I had to choose between Ashley and Kaiden on Virmire. Of course, Ashley being the distrusting b*tch that she is, maybe I ought to save Kaiden instead. But I just didn't want him to get fresh with my femshep.

-More upgrades for weapons, armour and shields. A bag with ammo should not go at the cost of anything else, even if it means more weight.

-Heavy weapons should be carried permanently, not picked up seemingly at random and then discarded when they are empty. At the very least you should be able to keep them when depleted, even if it slows you down a bit, then restock with ammo and use them again, instead of just picking up another weapon and depleting that one as well. It just makes more sense. Shepard doesn't know there is another one right around the corner.

-A strategy to tackle the Reapers that makes sense, other than 'rush them head-on at their strongest point.' Shepard is in charge of a small commando squad, not a suicide squad. They intend to win, not to have the maximum amount of casualties. So, infiltration and sniper tactics should be used, followed up by the ground assault paving the way.

-More impact from the various war resources you recruit/find in the game, especially in the final battle, even if it is mostly chatter. The Volus bomber force should pave the way for Hammer, the Geth should be able to effectively attack the Reapers as they are only ones with the targeting capability needed to hit a Reaper's weak points, although EDI might be able to help other ships. The Elcor should help out too, with their heavy weapons they are mobile artillery and could add some punch.

-The Citadel should not give up without a fight after giving Spectre authorization for setting up a militia on the Citadel and adding to the strength of that Citadel Defense Force. Also, any troops/warships such as the recovering Turians should join the fight there. You didn't provide them with medi-gel for nothing and everyone knows even one dose of medi-gel brings you back from the brink of death. Liara's 'father' is also there and would certainly kick *ss.

-More sidequests, especially ones that result in war resources/a higher EMS, perhaps one or two missions on a ship, even one where you can -steer- a ship. Most of the sidequests are pretty lame, flying across the Galaxy, scanning a bit and there you go, a new ship or artefact. No explanation of what actually happens, no conversations with relieved aliens, glad to be found by you, no extraction mission, nothing. Some of the conversations resulting on the Citadel are pretty neat, though.

-Perhaps add one more squadmate for the final run towards the beam. Perhaps add a squad member with medi-gel to heal your regular squadmates just so they don't die as often.

-Let's get the Mako back instead of travelling everywhere on foot. Alternatively, just call the shuttle down to hop from one spot to another. Also, if the shuttle is armed, why don't we use its firepower more often?

-The ability to take down Kai Leng a notch and prevent him from closing with you at the start of the final battle. Melee gets my Shepard killed and I don't like that. Also, it makes no sense for my soldier Shepard to be surprised by someone running up from quite a bit away and not just grab the nearest gun and start shooting.

-If you choose to save the Rachni Queen yet again, there should be a pay-off other than some off-screen help for building the Crucible. She should set out to build ships and create soldiers as well and significantly add to the war-effort.

[Erathsmedor]

All those promoting the Indoctrination Theory ending or that they just need to be explained and the like completely miss the point. I want you people to pay really close attention here - all the choices we made throughout all three games are completely irrelevant - that is what is wrong with the ending (and much of the rest of the game but if those choices made a difference to the end, it could be forgiven)

Kill/Save the Rachni Queen? No difference to ending ABC (and they are all one ending)
Save/Kill Wrex on Virmire? No difference to ending ABC
Sacrifice Kaiden/Ashley on Virmire? No difference to ending ABC
Kill/Save the Council on the Citadel? No difference to ending ABC
Appoint Anderson/Udina? No difference to ending ABC
Accept/Deny Spectre Status reinstatement? No difference to ending ABC
Save/Destroy Genophage data? No difference to ending ABC
Give/Deny Cerberus the Collector Base? No difference to ending ABC
Living/Dead squadmates after suicide mission? No difference to ending ABC
Cure/Don't Cure Genophage? No difference to ending ABC
Kill/Save the Rachni Queen again? No difference to ending ABC
Broker Geth-Quarian peace/promote war? No difference to ending ABC
Get/Ignore Dr Conrad Verner's dissertation on Dark Energy? No difference to ending ABC
Enter final battle with 0 war assets/Infinity+1 war assets? No difference to ending ABC

Getting back to the squadmates - I had Thane die on the suicide mission (sent him into the ventilation shaft and gave command of the other fire team to Zaeed). If I imported that save game, would he still turn up to prevent Kai Leng assassinating the Asari counsellor or is she dead? And even if it does make a difference to the game in Thane not turning up, does that make any difference to ending ABC?

Same with the Cerberus base. Are Cerberus and TIM any less cartoonishly powerful and supervillainly (and does it effect the game in any way) if they didn't have access to all the advanced Reaper tech in the base and does that make any difference to ending ABC?

This is what is wrong with the endings - someone who just picked up ME3 get the same ABC ending as someone who has put hundreds of hours into ME 1&2 over multiple playthroughs in order to see what outcomes different decisions make. This is what needs to be corrected - not explaining that Shepard was indoctrinated or how the mass relays exploded without taking out entire star systems or how the Normandy came to be on that planet.

Don't get me wrong - I loved the game (all three) and turned up to work seriously sleep deprived all through ME3 (just one more mission - one more war asset...and despite everything I expected, I really am enjoying the multiplayer as well) because I wanted to see how my decisions would play out.

Letting us see how they play out and how they are reflected in the game (how they actually change the game universe) - how they matter -  is what is needed, not explaining or clarifying why they don't.

Modifié par Erathsmedor, 22 mars 2012 - 01:24 .

[Ec1ipsys]

Having taken a few days to mull it over, my thoughts on the game are thus. It took me about 20 hours to complete for the first time. It was 19 hours and 45 minutes of the best gameplay and story-telling that it's been my pleasure to play, but final 15 minutes left me without any urge to pick up the game again or purchase any DLC.

We were specifically told there wouldn't be endings A/B/C, but that's precisely what happened. War assets were a huge focus of the game, but seem almost meaningless in the larger scheme of the way things ended. None of the endings felt like choices I would actually make, and more importantly none of them felt like something Shepard would accept.

Shepard wasn't resurrected by the Illusive Man because of his habit of going quietly into something Shepard didn't believe in, but rather because he would fight tooth and nail for personal freedom and the belief that nothing was pre-determined. For him to just quietly accept that those three horrible choices were the extent of it felt like a huge slap in the face to a character known for his tenacity and willingness to do whatever it took to be sure everyone survived and got to choose their own path. Even Renegade Shepard believed that everyone made their own path, and should be able to do so.

Additionally, plenty of things just didn't make sense, or felt cheap. The child in the end is a great example. A "Deus Ex Machina" is an ancient Greek term from the time when the Greeks were first putting on plays and it means literally "God from the machine". Basically it meant they let their plays go for about 90% of the duration complicating things and building up. Eventually, a "God" actor would descend from above on ropes/pulleys and would resolve everything in the last few minutes. It was a cheap cop-out 2,000 years ago and it hasn't gotten better since then. Where the heck did this kid come from? Who is he other than "The Catalyst"? Who built him? Why does he look like one of X million dead kids on earth? He was introduced at the last possible second to answer the question "Who built the Reapers?", but left more questions than he answered.

What was up with the Normandy anyway? Joker is many things, but a coward is not among them. He believed in Shepard, and that Shepard could win the war for good. He would never turn tail and run away from a fight where millions are going to die. He and everyone on Shepards crew who got off that ship (in the endings where they don't die running away) would rather have died fighting, or trying to save Shepard. Additionally, none of them would have left Shepard to die, if for no other reason than because Shepard would never abandon them if there was a chance of saving them.

At the risk of this post getting TLDR, I'll finish my concerns there, but here are my suggestions. I feel like the odds of all three current endings getting completely scrapped are fairly low, so my suggestion is to add two additional endings if the player is over 5,000 War Assets and has max (or nearly so) Paragon/Renegade scores. In the Paragon ending he would either convince the child to use the Crucible for its intended purpose and wipe out only the Reapers, or convince the child to send the Reapers to power down / return to dark space. Without max war assets there is a chance of the crucible misfiring or of the fleet being destroyed before the Reapers leave. In the Renegade ending Shepard would tell the child that self-determination is the most important thing we have, and that we were going to simply let the fleet battle it out with the Reapers once and for all. Without max war assets there is a chance that the fleet could lose and the ending returns to choices A/B/C.

Mass Effect 2 had it about right with the way squad members could die, and there could be some pretty horrible endings, but if the player put in the time and did everything right, there was a good ending. It left the player feeling like the things they did and the work they put in actually mattered. As it is I have no desire to ever play again because there isn't some goal I can work towards. It's just which flavor of foul-tasting brown substance I want to eat; green, red, or blue. I want to feel rewarded for my efforts, not work to be forced into some pre-determined situation in which there is no right answer.

Beyond that, please for the love of all the players wrap up the lingering questions like you said you would. What were the long term results of undoing (or not) the genophage? How did the crew fare? Did the Rachni keep their promises regarding peace? What kind of beer should I buy Garrus for our beach house? Give us something positive to work towards, not force us to put in hundreds of hours over three games building up to a choice between red/green/blue. Having high casualties and sacrifices isn't the problem. Earth, Palaven, and Thessia are all basically destroyed and the game has done a phenomenal job making us feel those losses. Let us see though that those sacrifices were worth it.

Modifié par Ec1ipsys, 22 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[Atriden]

To start with, I would like to say that I in general liked Mass Effect 3. Shepard's interaction with his crew was touching and believable. Most mission did have something new to offer or experience, and kept things quite fresh. The fact that major decisions throughout the game and previous game have a impact on relationships with the other races was cool. Too bad the major decisions didn't have any impact on the ending.

Best Moments:
My greatest moments where on the Krogan homeworld and on the quarian homeworld. Seeing Moradin sacrificing himself to help cure the genophage and fighting a reaper with the aid of a Thrasher Maw was awesome. Watching Tali's and Legion's interaction, when Shepard decided to upload the reapercode to all remaining Geth was priceless. I was a bit worried that the Geth would end the Quarians for good, thankfully in my case they didn't and everything turned all right.

Mass Effect 3's ending:
I find the ending to be good and bad.

Good:

• Talking to your team mates and important individuals just before the frontal assault on the reaper was somewhat good and being able to say good bye to some of the major cast from the last games on the hologram was a nice touch.

• Running down the hill to make it into the Citadel teleportation beam and almost being killed was frankly a nice twist. At first I didn't believe my eyes when it happened. Plus, hearing on the radio that everybody on the front assault team were dead was mind-blowing.  

• The 3 choices presented to Shepard in the end by the child/catalyst were all interesting and had major consequences, although I wish there was a way Shepard could survive without picking the renegade option. I picked the paragon choice the first try, and I probably would do so again.

Bad:

• The farewell kiss with Liara and gift on earth - I expected a bit more emotions to flourish and her gift to be a bit more interesting. I would expected something like flashback to when they first met and some other key events in their relationship.

• The last fight before entering the Citadel - I expecting a lot more here and was disappointed. I thought it would be like in Mass Effect 2, where you and your team had to fight your way through the collector base and give them key task they must accomplish. Now that was epic. Creating something similar on earth would have been epic. For instance, appoining James to lead the tanks to the frontal assault. Meeting them at some point during gameplay and helping them to advance. Appoint Garrus to lead a small squadron of turian fighters.

 

• The ending cinematic - The first part seeing the reapers being controlled/destroyed was fine by me, but seeing the Normandy in hyperspace crash land on some planet... makes no sense to me. I thought the Normandy was fighting in space with the rest of the fleet, so why would it try to flee or jump to another system?  As many others I expected more closure. A good way to end it, would have been seeing all of Shepard's companions and friends react to the destruction of the citadel after he saved they day. Realising that Shepard just paid his life among millions of others to stop the reapers. Then maybe jump into the future and see what happened to Shepard's romance option, friends or the universe.

• War Reasources - I wish they had more visual appearance in the ending game, besides the fleet battle. Fighting along with all the other races on earth would have made them more visible and the last fight more believable.

Modifié par Atriden, 22 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[Salfin]

I appologize, I know that what I am about to say has been said by others, more articulate and wiser then I. But I need to post my thoughts/ideas about the game having just completed it. And what suggestions I have.

My experience with the game

The ME games have brought me many hours of enjoyment, and I found ME3 to be one of the best of the series. It was by no means perfect, but the story was so engaging and tense that any flaw I came across hardly mattered.

Until the story broke down in the last few minutes of the game. I had been warned about it, and probably lowered my expectations as a direct result. I was told that after you ascend on the white platform things go a bit strange. At first I found myself accepting the story elements presented by the catalyst:

-The repears were tools of an ancient synthetic being, used for controlling the organics. That was something I was expecting, after all synthetics vs organics is one of the major themes of the ME universe.

-The catalyst uses said tools to create a cycle of death and rejuvination to ensure that the organics never get too advanced that they destroy themselves with technology (in the form of synthetic life that they create). The rational is sort of sketchy, and ends up being circular (as others have mentioned), but I thought perhaps that is due to the difference in the way a synthetic creature might solve problems. It is an acceptable solution for a machine, but for an organic lifeform it is abhorent.

Okay, it was sort of weird, but I was still on board.

So now what?

The catalyst, the being which came up with this horrible solution to which I have made it my life's purpose to stop, and brought together every major race of the galaxy to also stop.....has a new idea....and Commander Shepard just eats these ideas up as the ONLY POSSIBLE ways to fix things.

This increadibly powerful and ancient AI, which treats the galaxy as its own personal garden has a new idea on how to fix things, and Commander Shepard just goes along with it. No questions asked. What could possibly go wrong this time around?

And then things go from bad, to just complete nonsense, starting with the strange scene of the Normandy fleeing. Seeing Liara who was JUST ON EARTH with Shepard moments ago, stepping off onto a strange jungle world.

Roll credits. Then a message to look forward to buying more content!

With an ending like that, you're going to follow it up with a sales pitch. Really? If some of the recut ending cutscenes made the game feel cheap, that little marketing blurb made me feel cheap.

My suggestions -

Allow the war resources to be a larger factor in the ending. I spent so much time and care building a mighty armada with a vast array of capabilities, conventional and unconventional. The only real difference is a few seconds in one scene which hardly changes the emotional tener of the entire ending.

Where were the brave Krogan warriors? Where were the strange Rachni? I united the Quarians and the Geth, and it made absolutely no difference what so ever. I might as well have not done any of those things.

War can be portrayed as painful, grueling and in the end unfufilling. That was how I felt at the end of the game.

Allow Shepard to make his own decisions, and not rely on the flawed logic of the Catalyst. The only 'good' ending possible in the game is complete homogenization of every sentient thing in the galaxy. It's abrupt, and seems to contradict one of the major themes of the series - the celebration of diversity. It doesn't feel good, or bittersweet. To make it worse, adding some circutry patterns to the same cutscenes felt cheap.


I always expected the Crucible not to just be some large death ray, but to be some sort of unique device that added an unexpected solution to the war with the reapers. I also expected to perhaps not fully be able to understand either the solution or the reapers themselves. I never expected the end of the game however, to be a string of cinematics that made less sense for each one you saw. I never expected the different endings to be the same cutscenes recut.

I never expected Commander Shepard to surrender to the Reapers. And for that to be presented as a good thing, and the only option, as if nothing else was possible. It's not edgy, or bittersweet, or intellectual its a complete and abrupt change in personality for the main character.

This is not about a happy ending or a sad ending. I don't think that is at the core of what is wrong with the ending. I think its about diversity of choice, and free will.

Your fate isn't decided by Shepard. That is an illusion. Your fate is decided by the Catalyst. He offers you false choices, and you are forced to pick one.

Modifié par Salfin, 22 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[aaron.a.moyers]

My major concerns:

Reaper War: Before the release, Bioware heavily emphasized the war with the Reapers, the “Taking Back Earth” campaign. I was expecting the opportunity to take on many more Reapers than we actually got. We only got to take out 3 minor ships right? One by the Thresher Maw, one by the laser guided artillery strike, and one with the twin rockets. The “war” was mostly against Reaper minions which was a disappointment. I wanted to take out more Sovereign class ships.

Final Boss: I know some people say that “boss battles are so 1990’s” but still, there was no epic ending confrontation. ME1 gave us two battles with Saren, ME2 gave us the Human Reaper, but ME3 only gave us a never ending wave of minions until we launch the rockets. I find this really strange because most shooter games and most RPGs have final boss battles. The game was tailored to both genres yet I’m surprised this didn’t make it in.

Harbinger: The Reaper king only made a cameo in this game. ME2 played him up to be the main antagonist, yet we have zero interaction with him at the end. I wanted an opportunity to square off with him: The leader of the organics taking on the master of the Reapers. I half expected the Crucible to turn into some kind of giant turret to use against him.

Endings: I do agree that the endings all seem way too similar. I feel all of our past decisions and actions affected the beginning and middle of the game, but were completely nullified in the end. I was hoping for more variety to the ending sequences. You did tell us to expect multiple endings.

I do like the idea of the indoctrination theory. It makes more sense out of the seemingly random and misplaced nature of the ending we got. I’m not sure what the developer’s intention was for the end. I personally think you guys left the ending vague enough to be interpreted but I do not think that you meant for it to be a hallucination. I doubt Bioware would risk purposely making a game without a real ending (unless you are setting up for another potential sequel, Halo 3 style).

Things I like: the gameplay, the story, how many emotional moments we get, the weapon system, the leveling and powers, the planet scanning/reaper alertness idea was nice, seeing all the old characters (do wish we had more interaction). All-in-all, the game is good but I do think it is currently the weakest one in the series. You have to understand that the hype you made about this game gave us very high expectations of it, and I feel that what was delivered fell short of making this game a legend on our shelves.

I pray that some changes are made. You will retain the interests and affection of thousands of fans if you continue to fix the bugs/glitches and continue to try delivering the epic conclusion we were all hoping for.

[Palando]

I don't hate the ending, but this is the wrong sort of game for an ambiguous end. For a game which only has one path to all of a sudden give a player a choice of three things and have the fans argue about which choice is best would be a stroke of genius. For a game that is about choices and seeing your choices shape the galaxy it is a let down, and makes people wonder what they were working towarsds. Your choices beforehand do matter, but only in a crude numerical sense, and the importance of all those other choices combined is of the same weight as your decision as to whether you want to play multiplayer or not.

The main problem is that the desire to replay the game and see if you can tweak the ending to get the sort of result you want is eliminated. Mystery is fine (you can imply that the presence of the keepers poses a threat to galactic peace years down the track or whatever), but knowing that because you miscalculated there will be a Krogan uprising in 20 years is the sort of thing that would make people want to do the "perfect" playthrough the next time.

I really would like to see Bioware make an ending that is more satisfying without losing the integrity of its artistic vision, and best of luck with that.

[Test Subject 58]

Since the recent closure of online feature of several games by EA, one of which only 17 months old. I wish BioWare add another way for SP to obtain the defender achievement without the current mandatory MP gameplay.

[Pinkflamingo22]

camcon2100 wrote...

Go with the indoctrination theory. Make it so we face off with Harbinger for real this time. And make the crucible a realistic construct some sort of blast that weakens the Reapers. This allows us to use our EMS to determine how the rest plays out. This would be perfect

This. Minus the part about the cricible. I thin its fine to destroy the relays and all that. I want my choices to really impact the ending. I want to be able to fail, like controlling the Reapers... NO ONE CAN CONTROL THE REAPERS. Thats why they're so badass, each a nation of its own, something I couldn't possibly comprehend. In ME3 I think what pissed people off is that the reapers are just being controlled by some lame A.I. who takes the image of a child? No way. I love 99% of the game, but the endng just doesn't fit, it lacks the same awesomeness as the rest of the game.

Modifié par Pinkflamingo22, 22 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[Chasshep]

I have a thought regarding war assets and the Sword/Hammer cinematics; I think a beneficial change would be to have the cinematic be little longer, and take more from the war assets you bring to the table.  The arrival of the fleets is great, but we then see primarily alliance ships engaging reaper forces; how about more Turian ships in the thick of things;  Geth and Quarian ships shown fighting side by side; did you save the Council in ME1?  How about showing the Destiny Ascension dishing out some damage.  You could also do the same thing on Earth; have a Krogan and Turian engaging in friendly banter during a firefight over who's killed the most husks; show a squad of Geth rescuing a Salarian Spec Ops team; show a brief cameo of surviving companions fighting the good fight (e.g. Samara leading a team of Justicars against a horde of banshees)  Just a thought


Overall, I have absolutely loved my experience with Mass Effect 3, but to add nuances like that would help put it over the top.

Great job, Bioware.  I'm looking forward to whatever you're planning to add.

Modifié par Chasshep, 22 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[Shevar]

Chasshep wrote...

I have a thought regarding war assets and the Sword/Hammer cinematics; I think a beneficial change would be to have the cinematic be little longer, and take more from the war assets you bring to the table.  The arrival of the fleets is great, but we then see primarily alliance ships engaging reaper forces; how about more Turian ships in the thick of things;  Geth and Quarian ships shown fighting side by side; did you save the Council in ME1?  How about showing the Destiny Ascension dishing out some damage.  You could also do the same thing on Earth; have a Krogan and Turian engaging in friendly banter during a firefight over who's killed the most husks; show a squad of Geth rescuing a Salarian Spec Ops team; show a brief cameo of surviving companions fighting the good fight (e.g. Samara leading a team of Justicars against a horde of banshees)  Just a thought


Overall, I have absolutely loved my experience with Mass Effect 3, but to add nuances like that would help put it over the top.

Great job, Bioware.  I'm looking forward to whatever you're planning to add.

I like the idea except for the justicar team. I think there are only about 2 or 3. At least it's being suggested by Samara in ME 3. Everything else badass.

[Raynulf]

I could go on at length about why I dislike the ending and why what hurt the most was actually the dissillusionment in the BioWare brand and their ability to consistently produce quality and immersive story.


But the point of this thread is suggested changes, and frankly I found it easier to say that write, so recorded it below.

www.youtube.com/watch

Quick Summary
1) The Citadel
- Options to stitch up the plot hole regarding it no longer doing what it did in ME1
- Options to avoid immersion-breaking railroad of the citadel being conquered and moved off camera.

2) The ending
- Options for divergence of endings
- Options for a more believable and immersive exposition
- Options for greater player-choice influence on the conclusion.

Commentary
I have no malice for Bioware, nor actual "hate" for the endings as they stand. Merely profound dissapointment and... sympathy. For effort that went into the game, spoiled by a few moments of utter narrative disconnect.

No, I don't think Bioware is 'obliged' to change anything - it is their product. I do suggest that a "director's cut" (to borrow from another art medium) would be well recieved, and renew a lot of interest in continued development.

Modifié par Raynulf, 22 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[Mr Tigglyfeef]

I'd agree with all of the above (even the comments i haven't read, a-ha).

I was afraid that the whole 'gathering an army' thing would sound much better than what it played out as...and it did. You didn't really see any impact on NOT getting that certain force or war asset. I wanted to see Geth saving Quarian in a dogfight in space, then your characters from ME2 (if they survived) annihilating the Reaper ground troops.

I wanted to see that i actually was having an impact on a world that i had invested in.

Naturally, i'd say a lot of the things that people want are technically impossible with this generation, which is a shame. But a lot could be wrapped up in epilogues?

In regards to the ending - go with the indoctrination theory. It's the best theory out there, in my opinion, and it's already backed up by many of your scenes throughout the games.

I think it is a shame that with all the build-up and how we had different factors from the previous 2 games it does just boil down to...3 choices of how the ending will LOOK.

[Suubersnake]

I usually never post on forums. I'm often perfectly keen to simply observe and see how something plays out, but I feel that I need to talk about this particular issue.

To start off, I very much enjoyed the Mass Effect series. When Mass Effect 3 came out I started with Mass Effect 1 and played through the entire series over the course of two weeks.  I laughed, I cried, I felt anger and many other emotions throughout the story. I got to make friends within the story, and I came to care deeply about these characters.  My hands were shaking when I watched Mordin calmly walk to the elevator, both of us knowing that he won't be walking away from it, that this is our last moment we get to talk.  He reassures me when I tell him "I'm sorry" with "I'm not, has to be me, this ends with me, some one else, might make a mistake." It was probably the first time that I'd ever had to stand up and walk away from any series for a few moments and reflect on that character, and his sacrifice, and how I was going to make the reapers pay for that.

I got so angry on Thessia as Kai Leng smugly walked off with the Prothean VI, and I knew at that point, Kai Leng and the Illusive Man were both getting a bullet between their eyes. 

Watching how EDI and Joker came to fall in love made me smile and  laugh as I watched them interact and gave them subtle nudges through the story.

In the end, I felt so many connections within this story, that I personally feels it is a bit of an injustice to halt a story before it is finished. I personally feel that the Indoctrination Theory is quite frankly, pretty awesome, but not as an ending, there needs to be something more to wrap up this series. If not, what did Mordin, Thane and Legion die for?  Their sacrifices I remember clearly and vividly, but what were they for? 

I'm not asking for a happy ending, I just want to know that the sacrifices made during the story mattered. As it stands, I don't think that a text prompt gives the ending they deserve.

Thank you for your time.

[Midnattsorg]

Dont change the ending it was epic and great. You could however release some DLC so we can get more info about the reapers and maybe an emotional cutscene where everyone is honoring Shepard for what he/she sacrificed so they could live.
 Loved the game, perfect ending to the trilogy. Keep it up!

[I3loodletting]

 I honestly love ME 1-3, yes I was a bit shocked at how years of dedication was concluded in a 5 minute ending which left more questions than answers, of course I have my theories, or did, about the ending which I'm sure bioware has seen by others. The one thing I was looking forward to more than anything was finding out the origin of the reapers, who made them, how they came to be, why or how did they come to mindset to harvest and destroy life in the gallaxy every 50.0000 years, sure the spirit kid? gave shepard the reason which still didnt make sense. alot about the end didn't make sense, especially considering I had the "good" ending where shepard is still alive? and if so how did he survive the explosion of the citidel and end up on solid ground which supported air breathing life forms under rubble?.

.I honestly did not think the ending was final, i personally believed there was going to be more to it down the road, Bioware has always done right with the fans and I'm confident they always will, I don't know if the ending was truely meant to be wrapped up like that..or if bioware was planning to pop out a full conclusion of the end down the road..I saw the end as a mind twisted and a teaser, something to get the fans thinking and picking apart clues of what really happened with the end...but one way or another, I loved ME3, the mass effect series is hands down my favorit game series and I hope to see much  more to the series, whether its dlc, alternate endings, or spin offs. Bioware has created a universe that has many stories that can be told of it and I hope to see more down the road

[lord berwick]

Dear Bioware,

In response to Dr. Muzyka’s call for constructive feedback, I’ve decided to add my own input on the ending.  While I could make flowery platitudes about the rest of the game, it really isn’t necessary, since it really was gaming bliss (except for the journal; not being able to track what collection side-quests had progressed was irritating).

I’ve been playing video games for over 20 years, and I can honestly say that the last 10 minutes of ME3 were the worst I’ve ever experienced in gaming.  Notwithstanding that the existence of the diabolos ex machina contradicts the events of ME1 and the Ouroboros argument it uses, which was utterly nonsensical in light of Geth/Quarian conflict and EDI, the lack of closure with the NPCs in the aftermath, the apparent teleportation of my squad mates to the Normandy, and the complete change in character for Joker (running away from the battle) and Shepard (blindly accepting his choices), it was the shift in narrative and lack of player choice, or more accurately, the absence of their consequences, that felt like a betrayal of what I had been playing and promised over the course of the series.

The following blog post more than accurately explains why the ending of ME3 suffers so greatly.

http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

First, I shall address the shift in narrative.  Mass Effect had always been framed through two themes; strength in diversity and triumph through adversity.  The previous games clearly demonstrated these concepts by the recruitment of a varied crew that increased the ability to overcome any obstacle, and are reinforced by the fact that without the NPCs in ME2, and their loyalty, complete victory could not be achieved.  ME3 upturns this to pure nihilism.  No matter how well the player had performed in preparing the galaxy for the final battle with the Reapers, the same outcome is always reached; three choices that destroys the Mass Relays, maroons the fleet over Earth (and most probably dooming them), and the Normandy crashes in some far flung world.  The motivations I had to save the galaxy and the companions I had grown fondly attached to were lost.  Instead of feeling victorious and that I had beaten the odds, all I feel is bitterness.  What was the point of saving everyone from the Reapers if I had damned them all?  Why bother playing the games in the first place if nothing I’ve encountered and cared about is preserved?

The glaring lack of consequences to our decisions at the very end of the ME3 is galling, and destroys any replay value the entire series had.  Why should I agonise over any decision when there are no differences in what is seen in the end (having three different colours doesn’t count)?  Why would I invest any emotion in the various relationships formed between NPCs when that has no visible outcome?  Some have argued that the sum of our decisions feed into the ‘Effective Military Strength’.  While the EMS serves as a vague indicator to our success before the assault on Earth, leaving the outcome of our decisions as an abstract number divorces the player from our choices.  I contend that acknowledging a decision I made back in ME1 through the use of cut scene or clip, demonstrating that they have contributed to the overall victory, would alleviate this problem.  Conversely, this would work the other way; if I had made a different decision, I should see the negative consequences of that.  Additionally, this would help decide the outcome of the conflict and what happens to Shepard.  Make enough bad choices, the war is lost and Shepard dies.  Make all the right decisions, and the ultimate victory is reached with Shepard surviving.

Bioware, I had been captivated by the universe you created.  I have devoted over 100 hours to a series that could be described as a mix between Star Wars and Star Trek, leaving me in awe of the futuristic art, extensive lore and most importantly, the characters so well fleshed out (and brilliantly acted) in all three games.  However, as it stands, any motivation I once had for playing any game in the series has been washed away due to the feeling of emptiness at the end.  If you wish to retain the current ending, fine, but for those of us who have held Mass Effect as an exemplar of a brilliant storyline, and choice and consequence in gaming, please don’t just try to tweak the current one and add more details.  The Technological Singularity theory placed at the end of ME3 runs contradictory to the characters and events encountered in the game.  Use the Indoctrination Theory as a way to complete Shepard’s fight, and make our decisions count.  Add more endings, ranging from a heart-wrenching loss, a bitter win, through to ultimate victory.  Don’t make me feel as if everything I’ve done in these games count for nothing.

I wouldn’t spare a few hours away from a doctoral thesis just to think and write about something I didn’t care about.  I believed and trusted you once, Bioware.  Make me believe once more.

Modifié par lord berwick, 22 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[Loki1689]

           For the most part I believe Bioware got the game right. For example Conrad showing up on the Citadel helping with a Cerberus agent. It was the little things like that that I liked. Yes the game play was good but to me it was always second to the story. Now I come to the part I didnt like the ending. I dont care if Shepard dies I really dont but dont  have the multiplayer affect the outcome of the single player campain. I have done multiple play throughs and have never come close to getting 10000 war assets needed for the suposed best outcome. So unlink singleplayer and multiplayer. The story for the ending was like a block of swiss cheese so many holes that in places you could see through it. For example how does the Normandy end up making a jump to another system with all the ground crew when the ship and squad should be fighting the Reapers? The outcome of our decisions would be nice to see in the end but if they plan a ME4 without Shepard I could want til then to find out what happened.
          So what I would really like to see is a reimagined ending that the multiplayer has no effect on the singleplayer campain were we get a look at what happens after we save the galaxy dead or alive maybe with our love interest telling our story to their child with Shepard showing up if he/she survived. Just that simple no plot twist just a real ending showing what our last few years of playing the trilogy have culminated to.   

[Zemekiss]

So, I finished Mass Effect 3 a week ago and was one of these people who was disappointed by the ending.  I haven’t actually read through this thread, but this seemed like the best place to post this so I apologize if I am a re-treading already covered ground or options.

Given the emotional highs that Mass Effect evoked in me, the drop when I hit the end nailed me pretty hard, and the more I thought about it the grumpier I got.  In the end I decided I would just let things lie for a week before I tried to provide any sort of feedback.  It would give me time to cool off and also get my thoughts in order, so the feedback I did provide would hopefully be a little more constructive.  

Before I get into the ending I wanted to say never before has a game got me so emotionally invested in a story and its characters.  The relationships in this game were handled beautifully, and the final scenes with each of party members and former party members left me more than a bit misty-eyed.  Especially, for my play though, the final conversation with Garrus, my FemShep’s romance of choice worked really well.

As to the ending, my major problem is not so much the lack of happy ending (sure, part of me would have liked the option, but the story in the 3 was a dark one and the sacrifice was telegraphed from a ways away) but the way the final choice was presented and how the results of that choice was shown to the player.  For me, this was also compounded by some of the frustrations leading up to that choice in the last 15 minutes.

First, leading up to the choice, there was the “heavily injured game play” mechanic.  Providing a situation where the rules of gameplay change (slow movement, listing of the targeting reticule) to provide challenge doesn’t build on the skills the player have learnt up until that point, and doesn’t make for a good final skill-challenge for the game.  The battle just prior to that was excellently done.  It was tricky, required me to come up with new strategies on the fly and felt like I needed to use every skill in my arsenal just to survive.  The injured gameplay was more a sequence of “Damn it Shepard!  Just point the gun where I’m telling you to point it.  No, not over there!  And I’m dead again.”  It also probably didn’t help that the first time I finally made it to the beam, my game crashed and I had to do it all over again.

Second, reaching the Illusive man having tried to do every side quest I could, pick every paragon choice I could, and still not being able to convince him not to shoot Anderson irked me.  Obviously I missed something, but given the amount of effort I put in, I would have like a little more leeway in reaching whatever paragon/reputation level was needed for that conversation option.

Now, neither of these were deal breakers.  I did eventually make it to the beam (and that scene helped impart the helplessness of the situation) and I was willing to forgo my morals and take the renegade option to shoot the Illusive man (the bastard had it coming).  It was what happened after that I had real problems with.

For me, it was the star-child-thing.  Meeting this 11th-hour new character in the form of the personification of the Citadel, really took me out of the game.  It smacked strongly of deus-ex machina, and not a very well integrated story device at that.  He presents your choice as a long, rambling soliloquy where the player is very obviously being told, rather than shown what his/her options are.  And the philosophy he presents (machines must always try to destroy organics) doesn’t make any sense it terms of the over-all narrative.  Of the sampling of the 3 technical races presented in the game (Reapers, Geth and EDI) 2 of the 3 are happy to make peace with organics, if only the organics would stop shooting at them.   The Reapers are the only exception, and apparently it is this little thing that is telling them to do so anyway.  (I didn’t really need to know the latter by the way.  I kind of preferred the Reapers as an elemental force.)

I also found the 11th-hour heavy-handed religious symbolism (“Shepard ascends, on the platform, to the next level, and sacrifices his/herself, to become as unto a God to all races in the galexy”) a bit off-putting.  I’ve got no problem with that sort of thing if it is telegraphed, or if there is narrative precedent, but as a final thing it feels kind of shoe-horned in.

And, as many have mentioned, when you do make a choice, the results seem somewhat superfluous.  While I realize that Bioware games take a rubber-band approach to storytelling where choices may lead down different paths but always arrive at the same place, to maintain the illusion of a choice having an impact on the game world the results must be obvious to the player.  The different coloured explosions ending with Joker looking over some random jungle don’t convey that.  It’s fine to leave open questions but providing a big choice and not being able to see much in the way of a tangible difference in the results leaves the impact of the choice feeling somewhat hollow and hurts my desire to play through the game again, to see what the picking different choices ends up with.

What I would have liked to have seen is if the choice was presented by familiar faces and using more established themes.  One option might have been to have the player end up in a situation where Anderson is standing by one control panel saying: “We’ve got to kill the Repears!”   Meanwhile, the Illusive man is standing by another control panel going: “No, we need to control them!  And besides, if you use that to kill them off you kill off the Geth and your precious EDI as well.  Is that what you want?”

And, if you have done everything right, you might get EDI, the poster child for human-machine relations, to message Shepard and go:  “Commander, thanks to the time afforded by our sizeable forces I have been able to analyze the Catalyst-Citadel connection and I have determined that if you climb into the reactor chamber ahead of you, you should be able to re-wire the Citadel to join all organic and mechanical life and that should cause the Repaers to leave us alone.”

You can still have the Illusive man/Anderson kill one another after the choice.  You can still have Shepard sacrifice his/herself.  But it isn’t introducing new last minute narrative constructs or messages that, personally, I find detract from the over-all experience.

And then it would be nice to have a little more variation in the ending based on the choice the player makes.  There are lots of ways to do this, and I’m sure you guys are already working on solutions on that side of things given player feedback.

Anyway, thanks for the great game!  Looking forward to seeing what is next.

Modifié par Zemekiss, 22 mars 2012 - 03:37 .

[davidt0504]

I would like to see the following:

- Further explanation of ending either through explanation of what is happening with the choices and afterwards and what the starchild's motives are or just letting us interact and letting us feel like we can rebel against him even if ultimately that proves fruitless.

- If the indoctrination theory is correct, the obvious would be to show what happens afterwards.

- I would like to see more added to the battle for earth in general. Seeing our War Assets playing out more and to feel like everything and everyone from the series is coming together big characters and small to battle this out. I'd like to see our friends like Jacob, Grunt, Miranda, etc fighting instead of just talking to them. Could we get some cutscenes for that? Could we get some feeling of directing things like in the Suicide MIssion of ME2?

- I'd like to see more of the end results of my choices and how they play out.

- I'd like to see how my choices werent invalidated by stranding everyone at sol.

- I'd like to see civilization rising from the ashes more so than the vague way it is implied at the ending.

I'm sure I have more but I bet most everyone else has covered it.

[Noatz]

Here is a thread full of ideas for a new ending not involving changing everything.

http://social.biowar.../index/10456403

[Shadowstalker79]

here i my thread to other changes besides the ending that we should have gotten from the start

http://social.biowar...P.html#10413880

Modifié par Shadowstalker79, 22 mars 2012 - 04:01 .