7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheep Cheep Cheep]

www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62230265


I don't know if that's true or not, but if it was, that would be AMAZING, and have tons of replay value. I would be more than happy with that or something similar.

The other change I would want is a tweak to the Journal system. The Journal system was extremely vague about where you were supposed to go or what you already accomplished in a quest. For instance, I had to google where the Elcor homeworld was to be able to do that mission, and I really shouldn't have to do things like that - the Journal should tell me which star system my quest is located in. 

[BobbyTeenager4e]

It's nice to hear Bioware taking their fans seriously. ME2 is my favorite game of all time, and up until the last hour, ME3 was going to be my new favorite game.
I made an account specifically for this, so here are my thoughts (I'm sure all of these have been said many times before):

The 3 possible choices you get just don't really make logical sense. I don't want to even touch on the Control or Synthesis options.  Shepard dies, so I'll never choose them.  Why isn't there an option to just shut down the reapers?  Why am I forced to destroy Edi and all the Geth.  Why didn't that prove to the star child that peace is possible?  And how is using the Reapers to kill us so synthetics don't kill even make sense?  Either way, we're being killed!

The scene with Joker escaping makes even less sense (he'd never leave Shepard to die, and how did your squadmate get on board?). This needs to be explained and expanded on.

The Mass Relays being destroyed is also a problem.  It needs to be explained why they didn't wipe out each  entire system (which the Arrival DLC points to.).  Again, how did Joker make it to a Relay before it was destroyed?  Adding to that, everyone fighting around Earth would theoretically be stranded there now, and with limited resources, they will all surely die out.

Other than that, I think we deserve a little more closure for all our favorite characters. Did everyone stranded above Earth die? it sure seems like they will! Also, my Shep woke up at the end....where is he? Will DLC let me continue and find some of my crew and loved ones?  Did Jack and her kids make it?  Did Garus and Tali live happily ever after?  My Shepard and Liara loved each other.  She escaped with Joker.  I deserve to see her mourn me.  And since my Shepard lived, there would be nothing better than seeing them together again somehow.

99% of this game is just PERFECT, I think it is possible to get to 100% if you guys really listen to what your fans are asking for.

P.S.
Also, I have watched the Indoctrination video and I feel as if it makes sense.  A followup DLC could easily expand on that and make things work.

Modifié par BobbyTeenager4e, 22 mars 2012 - 04:19 .

[Pectar]

Acknowledging that this will probably get lost in both the waves of other posts and it's similarity to so many of them, I have to say my piece.

There are really only a few major things that I feel like the fans, me included, are talking about:

1. First and foremost, the entire Bioware crew did a fantastic job overall with this game, that does not seem to be in dispute and does not contradict the rave critic reviews. We love what you all have done. We are really only upset by the ending.

2. The promises made pre-release were not delivered. I don't think that you can really argue against that. There are quotes all over this board about multiple very different endings, the impact of player decisions via galactic readiness etc.

3. There was very little closure. Even as much as a DA:O style dialogue at the end seems would be sufficient for most people. We didn't even get that.

That is a summary of what I've generally gathered so far. Now for my personal opinion.

I loved this game, starting into it all of my expectations were either met or exceeded. It is a brilliant story, with heavy emotional ties. Mordin's final moment is probably my favorite video game event of all time, it was perfect. As with most people on this board, I could go on and on about the great moments in this game, But that isn't what we are here to discuss.

I was very dissapointed by the ending, the star-child's logic made no sense to me whatsoever. We don't really get to determine what happens in the end, yes we have 3 options, but they are all samey in result and, I want to be perfectly clear on this because it is a major point of discontentment,

IT MADE ALL OF YOUR DECISIONS THROUGH THE REST OF THE GAME COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

Before ME3 was even announced, I had finished ME2 with 3 different characters and was mid playthrough on two more. I wanted to see how all of these decisions would pan out in the end. Such narrow ending in 3 knocked the wind out of me. 3 choices, essentially the same. ME had wonderful re-playability due to the variation in story and results. Those variations don't really exist in ME3. We have 3 buttons that we get to push. If we want to see the other two, we can either just re-load and press the other button, or watch the original scene with a color filter.

I feel like I'm once again just re-stating what everybody else has said so far so I'm going to stop myself from falling into full rant mode and talk about how this game can go from an "OK" ending to a fantastic ending.

KEEP what you have so far. Run with indoctrination. When I first heard the theories about what was going on, I went from wild dissapointment to flat-out bewilderment at your genius; then I found out that it may not have been intentional. I don't care at this point. I really feel that you should run with it, it makes perfect sense with everything you have set forth in the lore so far. Taking the "Destroy synthetics option should be the only way to continue the fight for earth.

This link sums up all of the Indoctrination theory points most completely: www.youtube.com/watch Doing this would instantly turn things around and create an incredible feeling of epicness. Don't waste the resources that you have already set forth for yourself.

Give us the endings you promised us. Let our decisions mean something. Be the Bioware that you have always been. I know it's a tough choice altering something like this. Please look at the endings that were provided and ask yourselves: "Am I REALLY happy with these endings?" Your team can do amazing things; if we didn't think they could, this wouldn't be an issue. People are upset because you are an amazing team that makes amazing products. This ending is adequate for a "decent" game, not the epic space-opera that you have constructed.

I look forward to your decision and your future games. I won't let something like this prevent me from enjoying your games (even if I have to pretend the the indoct. theory is true and imagine my own ending.)

Thanks again,
-James

P.S. If the DLC adds more real content to the end of the game: Boss fight, major cutscenes, etc. I would gladly pay for that. If it only expands the dialogue with the star-child... well I honestly don't care, I won't pay extra for that and doubt anybody would.

P.P.S. Yes- www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html

Modifié par Pectar, 22 mars 2012 - 04:46 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

In SF an idea can be a theme to base a story on. In such a case the concepts are often what makes the whole thing interesting. In this case a terrifying half-organic-half-synthetic race that exterminates civilizations like clockwork. The Sovereign conversation kept me busy for ages to explain the "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure." There were also other hints like Legion's "An interesting choice, Shepard-commander. Your species was offered everything geth aspire to. True unity, understanding, transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms. You are more like us than we thought."

To me it looks like the ending of ME3 is in line with those statements and concepts. The kid was used to give the concepts a voice and a place in the story.

I think the problem was the space opera concept of the story and its great characters. Somehow BW had to integrate those in the ideas behind the trilogy and I think they failed. Most gamers were more interested in the impossible fight against the reapers using BW's well portrayed characters than in the concepts behind the reapers. I also think if you paint the characters well then one gets into trouble if the main character and her/his friends have literally nowhere to go in the end. Who cares about the reapers? It's all about Shepard and her/his friends.

Can it be fixed? In the current ending the Catalyst does the logical thing. To truly get rid of the reapers, not only the reapers have to go, but also the tools that allowed their infinite trap and thus the relays were destroyed. I think it is enough to get rid of the reapers themselves. Leave everything else like it is. That includes the relays (and the geth of course, otherwise the whole paragon quarian plot doesn't make sense). The relays have to stay to make the sacrifices to be worth something. Without them reapers would have won this cycle and the current civilizations would be doomed no matter what. And that wouldn't be much like a happy space opera ending, would it?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[Chinirojo]

INDOCTRINATION THEORY: The real MASS EFFECT on us.

First of all, thanks for this opportunity and sorry about my poor english. I really love everything about Mass Effect universe but the ending. I don’t usually write in games forums, but I need to say something about Mass Effect 3 endings (OK guys, go ahead, if Sherlock’s fans did it at 1903, why not Shepard’s?). To the point:

1.- Go with the indoctrination theory. I really hope you have thought about this sometime, because is brilliant (and you can earn yourself some points in your favour). Say us this is the truth and we’ll say: you Bioware are just geniuses and ME3 is and will be the best game ever. I think Shepard IS THE REAL CATALYST, the final fragment to complete the Crucible weapon, so please explain us the indoctrination fight, let us choose the “red” solution and see the Shepard’s deep breath. Then “Wake up Neo!”… I mean Shepard, and show us the new ending with the new catalyser.

2.- About the other possible new endings. I'll be satisfied with any explanation for the "blue" and "green" endings, but please, I don’t want to play multiplayer to see something, I just want to know that collect objects, complete the Crucible, rely on Geth support or Balak extra forces… really matters (OM Child-harbinger-god! when I saw that possibility, the batarian terrorist collaboration, I’m just went crazy, but... it was just utterly useless). In the actual circumstances it really doesn’t matter if we have 2.000 or 3.000 War Assets (and then, I don’t wanna play the game again, sorry). In short: I don’t wanna CHOOSE the ending, I just want you to TAKE ME THERE depending on my previous choices.

3- (Edit) About the current ending: You show us Shepard destroying the Alpha Relay and ending the Reaper invasion at Arrival DLC, but The Bahak System and all its inhabitants were destroyed too. Then, if some Mass Relay is destroyed, the system is destroyed. So, congrats Shep!!! you destroy the entire galaxy at every little ending. Finally, this is the only philosophical question to debate about: If the Normandy crew was the only survivors (through the Galaxy’s Black Hole), and the “New Caprica-Earth” planet is the same as “Winter space” planet (Because the same two moons/planets in the sky)… Do you really think grandpa and children “humanity” is possible?


Yes…
I want Sherlock Holmes Effect!
I want “The Truth” DLC
I want a NEW GAME about Geth wars and Tali BEFORE the mask ;-)
And I want to believe.

Modifié par Chinirojo, 22 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[MikeVentris]

Most importantly, why would I want is the realization that life (Shepard) given for a reason. And while there is a feeling that it was in vain.

[desirearune]

You guys are bloody brilliant .....wish dice would be as understanding lol.... haven't finished the game yet and I am not reading the spoilers -.- .... really shouldn't be here but I thought just pop in to give a little support... must be tiring keeping up with all the influx of ideas... good luck !

[maki0129]

Alright, constructive criticism. Here it goes.

I'd have liked it for the Reapers to remain shrouded in mistery.

The motivation we were given by the Catalyst (creepy god-child), was a complete contradiction to two rather MAJOR story arcs in the game, Rannoch, and the EDI/Joker romance.

You've decided the Mass Effect relays have to be destroyed, which is obviously to pave the way for future games of the Mass Effect franchise, since it's such an overpowering part of the ending. I'd like to state outright that in my honest opinion, that was definitely and completely the wrong way to go about it, you should have catered the ending to SATISFY your audience, not just yourselves and your plot needs for future games. Mass Effect 3 was supposed to be THE END, a well-rounded fulfilling close to it would have been a lot more preferable to us than an open ended finale. But since you seem to be hellbent on this, I'd have at least liked some closure about what comes after the Mass Effect relays are destroyed, if not for the whole galaxy. Then at the very least for the characters we grew to love and care about.

If you're really hellbent on the open ended then may I suggest you at least come through on the promises you made. Most of which, you broke shamelessly and horribly...

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of the planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildly different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters."
--Casey Hudson

Nope, same ending, only in 3 different colors.

"We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that..."
--Mike Gamble

And yet, here we all are, with the same ending and pretty much the same cutscene, only in 3 different colors.

"Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. Bioware will not do a 'Lost' and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game."
--Mike Gamble

*deep breath*

Why is the conclusion of AI vs natural life such a given if Shepard had just proven it wrong? What happened to the crew of the Normandy? When did the Reapers come to life? What was Dark Energy and how was it related to the whole thing? Merging synthetic and organic life through one magic wave, how would that even work? If Shepard lives, does he ever settle down and have children of whatever color? Fleets of aliens have now been stranded on Sol, what now? Who lived and who died in the battle against the Reapers? What will happen to the Krogan if you cured the genophage, and what if you didn't? Why didn't I get a final confrontation with Harbinger? What was up with Shepard's nightmares, was the child in them real or was Shepard hallucinating all along? If he was hallucinating, what does that mean? Who is the catalyst and why does he get to decide the fate of the galaxy? And if he's this important to the plot, why am I just being introduced to him in the last five minutes to the game? And why does he look like the child in Shepard's nightmares?

And those are just off the top off my head.

Now, I understand that you wanted the series to retain an air of mistery, really. I get that, but for questions to retain an air of mistery after the finale, you should give them a sense of satisfaction with the resolution main-story arc. You didn't. You left it all up in the air, so much, you don't leave people interested and motivated to find out and speculate. You just make them give up on a story that just seems unfinished and badly crafted.

This finale makes the finale of Lost seem conclusive, well-rounded and fulfilling.

"Pretty much everything that people want to see wrapped up, or to be given answers, will be."
--Dr. Ray Muzyka

See above.

"I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people."
--Mike Gamble

And yet, we only got one ending. At most we can say we have 6 endings, and all of them leave a soul crushing unsatisfied feeling in me, and as you can see here, LOTS of other people.

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”
--Casey Hudson

Instead we get "pick your flavor, cherry, blue berry or lime".

I get a lot more choice in Ben & Jerry's.

"[The presence of the rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
--Mac Walters

Yes, it gives us a whopping 100 points EMS score!

It's kind of disappointing that the Rachni presence has as much consequence to the end of the game as two any other random side missions throughout it.

"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."
--Casey Hudson

See above.

"Of course you don’t have to play
multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in
single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and
same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing."
--Casey Hudson

This is the most truthful of all the statements here, and it's still mildly untrue.

"Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
--Casey Hudson

Except, I didn't get to decide how all these things came to an end, regardless of what I did and the choices I made, at the end of the day I get the same flavor of ice-cream, only in three different colors.

We were promised 16 WILDLY different endings.

Charitably, we can at most say we got 6 BARELY different endings. None of them justified or consistent with the theme of the game. And one of them (synthesis) so non-sensical it has been dubbed "space-magic". And they're driven, respectfully, by an out-of-thin-air Deus Ex Machina creepy child thing whose existence I see no reason for. The ending could have easily gone without the appearance of the Catalyst (creepy god-child), you could have replaced him with Harbinger and it would have been better. You could have done without him, and it would have been better.

Hell, you could have cut to the red/blue wave immediately after the Citadel arms open, and it would have still been better, you could have left Shepard to die there too, along with Anderson, and it would have been great too.

The minute you raised that magic platform to the Catalyst thing, you ruined it all.

EDIT: On a completely different matter other than the ending, PLEASE fix the journal system too, not being able to track the progress on my quests in it is just horrible and confusing and had me going around the Citadel round and round and round looking for whoever I was supposed to be looking.

EDIT 2: Also, the whole Normandy and crew crashing in a jungle planet bit? Yeah, we can just do without that.

Modifié par maki0129, 22 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[spacefiddle]

The Citadel.

So much is available on the Citadel to strenghen everything from its defenses to its hospitals, it seems really important to the final outcome.  So many NPCs we care about are here.  As we're racing around gathering war assets, after the Cerberus attack, it seems like leaving the Citadel vulnerable would be a terrible mistake.

And then there's one throwaway line: the Reapers have taken the Citadel.  And you get there at the end, and everyone's turned into blood pudding.  And nothing you did makes any difference whatsoever.

Even headcanon can't save you: as a final insult, no matter what you do, or how much you want to pretend there may be survivors, the silly thing explodes for no apparent reason.  Even the non-destroy endings have the Citadel explosion.

You never have any visibility as to the results of your success.  It's just one more thing that added to the feeling of hopeless helplessness at the end, one more thing that made me assume I'd screwed something up and did it wrong.  It's one of the most confusing aspects of the ending to me.

[spacefiddle]

desirearune wrote...

You guys are bloody brilliant .....wish dice would be as understanding lol.... haven't finished the game yet and I am not reading the spoilers -.- .... really shouldn't be here but I thought just pop in to give a little support... must be tiring keeping up with all the influx of ideas... good luck !

Gah, get out of here fast, lol.  Don't even read the forum topics!  Enjoy the journey and the run-up to the end, they're breathtaking.  Let us know what you think when you're done .

[jcmccorm]

I think I'm able to give a more reasoned explanation of my disappointment and what I was hoping for. Here were my expectations going into the end (and I was quite willing to see things go a different direction, but was hoping it'd be good if it does):

1] Action/fight/adventure on the Citadel.
2] Unravelling the mystery behind everything
3] Was hoping for a Babylon 5 ending based on my accomplishments
4] After I finished, head online to see other people's different endings, and to figure out how I could change things to get them.
5] The possibility for horrible and awesome outcomes based on my choices (going with the game's "decisions and consequences" motif)
6] Consistent game quality

Sadly, none of those expectations panned out.

1] Citadel story was minimal. I suppose that was okay if the rest turned out well.
2] I have little more clue about what is going on than I did before starting ME3. That's unfortunate.
3] Denied a B5 victory. But I can live with that.
4] Turned into rage at the product when I learned that the final funnel down to a 3-way choice pretty much determined everything. No cool story swapping and going back and playing with the product to find more endings.
5] All possibilities pretty much ended towards the bummer side. Would have even been happier if there was a "Perhaps it is better if we let the Reapers continue the cycle based on what I now know."  It just seems like there is no hope. Despite the reapers no longer being a problem, there is a feeling of everything being pointless. Futility.
6] Massively scaled down quality at the end (writing, graphics, action, exploration, duration)

Hope this helps.I really liked ME and ME2. I bought all the ME2 DLC except for a reskin pack. Not so much of a "read all the books and comics and live and breathe the franchise" kind of guy. I was excited. Pre-ordered two Normandy models (the original SR2 was a pre-order painting disaster, BTW). I was ready to love and buy buy buy ME/ME3.

I didn't think it would be possible to make an ending that would completely turn me off. I know you didn't do it on purpose. Can you give me an ending that makes me like... perhaps even excited about... Mass Effect again?

Modifié par jcmccorm, 22 mars 2012 - 04:46 .

[jusik]

This is my first time posting on this forum but since bioware has asked for our opinions on how to improve the ending to an otherwise great game I thought I would put in my two cents.

The ending to Mass effect 3 needs to be improved in my opinion in two main ways.

First I think there should be a wider range of endings based on how you played the game. That is what I enjoyed about the ending to Mass Effect two because if you didn't upgrade your ship and do loyalty missions then your crew died or if you did not do enough shepherd would die. I think something similar would help here for example keep the current endings as the "bad" endings but then add an option where with so many assets shepherd lives but some of your crew dies and then if enough assets are gathered have shephard live and most of your crew live. This would be the best way to improve the endings and give everyone something. I don't relly care about having 16 distinct endings but adding two or three and having shepherd live in one or all of them would be a great improvement.

Second I think there needs to be better resolution with the other characters in the story especially with your chosen LI. I romanced Tali in Mass effect 2 and was always expecting to build her a house at the end of mass effect 3. Not being able to do that and not seeing what happened to the krogan and turian allience and the geth and quarien peace really left me feeling like getting them to work together really didn't affect how the ending played out. I think that showing shepherd doing things having a drink wiht Garrus discussing future plans talking with Wrex about the Krogan future or something of that nature could give the fans the closure they need.

How these changes are implemented is still up for discussion and whether bioware uses the indotrination theory or just adds some diolouge if these changes or something similar is added to the game then this can go down in history as one of the best series of our time.

Finally thank you Bioware for your willingness to listen to your fans it is one of the reasons your company is at the top of my list.

[savagejuicebox]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I am going to copy + paste this from my thread because my thread was created prior to this feedback one existing. Now that it does I shall leave my feedback here.

Maybe I'm just weird but the ending was nice (imho) and left universe/franchise extremely open to new stories/titles. With passing of time and evolving technology as a factor, also as fondness of space based titles viewed from the perspective of first steps into the unknown or new beginnings I am partial to both ends of the scale.

Edit: Reason why I loved it.

I liked everything about it (although the format of final choice has been done many times before).

• I loved from Anderson and Shepard sitting together near the end. It was a touching moment.
• The scenery walking down towards your fate as the battle rages outside showing every second walking is taking it's toll on life of others.
• The crew leaving the ship in lush green forest looking up at the sky (especially Ash which was my LI), smiling and looking happy to be alive (I like to think fondly remembering my Shepard and their love for each other). On a land so far away and an adventure about to begin to trying to reach home.
• Seeing Joker and EDI together where they can be together, a bond present since ME2.
• The music and soundtrack to the game even the end music.
• Shepard giving everything he has to save everyone after being hit by the Reaper near the end, the feeling that he gave it his all and saved the ones he loved while bleeding to death and barely hanging on to life and regardless of the outcome.
• The final scene on the planet with nice scenery looking at the moon with grandfather and child talking about what once was and the story inspiring the child to reach for the stars (maybe lead character in ME4) and knowing life goes on plus more including imagining how they (my companions) lived out the remainder of their lives, were they happy or sad, did they remember him decades on and will peace remain all sparks imagination.
• I felt all the choices had an impact in the game during the game, the repercussions occur in time but I am gone and not present so naturally I do not or would not know how things turn out for everyone.
• I liked how TiM reacted and what he says as he looks at the Earth after my actions too when I shot him.
• You were told the game would provide closure to elements brought up in the first two. This was done in the game rather than the ending and I felt they accomlished it very well. You will never get 100% closure on everything because the outcomes are infinite over time. You make choice x save it saves y (closure), he goes on and lives happy life or sad one (closure), he had a child and that child went on and lived his life (closure) again and goes on forever.
• It feels like a title/game that shows more than most others implies the journey matters most rather than the destination and last five or ten minutes of the game and I am happy with that.
• The choices I had hard time choosing which to do and that is good, I RP as my character in those situations and that world. I do not play as a god controlling his every actions and knows every consequence. Played it through his eyes and it was good for that reason and why I had a back and forth between choices/platforms at end as I struggled to pick one.

         

Well, you obviously like anime, (your anime cat picture) and most anime is convoluted and speculative just like the ending of ME3. In anime you usually come up with your own ideas of what the ending means and thats all well and good, but ME3 is not an anime its a cut and dry space epic, and the way the game played out drew in tons of people who loved star wars and battlestar galactica as well as many other space epics, they were not expecting the artsy "lots of speculation ending" that everyone recieved, especially after seeing the epic endings of the first 2... <_<

Modifié par savagejuicebox, 22 mars 2012 - 05:16 .

[TheMadLieut]

to me...the real problems of these endings are the relays and the normandy, we can still keep the options...they are...interesting...expept that i would like to have an option to destroy ONLY the reapers, not all the synthetic life...

what i really do NOT want:

the relay's net explosion, that really doesn't make any sense...as we seen in the arrival with one relay destroyed, the entire system is destroyed too...i don't think destroy all the galaxy in all the endings is such a great idea...and i'm sure as hell that commander shepard won't do it if he knows that...

The normandy:

nonsense part...really...when the crew would go back to the normandy if the harbinger and more reapers are shooting to them? (since they're still on earth, with shepard, anche the reapers does not leave/dead until the explosion)

and anyway...i don't think the romance gonna walk out of the normandy smiling...why in the hell he/she is smiling? shepard is dead and they're lost on a remote planet with no chance to get back since the relays are destroyed...and anyway...i don't want to see the crew dying on a remote planet because they has nothing to eat, i think they must rejoin shepard if both are still alive, or stay on the earth talking about the victory/shepard's sacrifice, or in the worst caase they should die during the battle...

[NM_Che56]

*puts on suit. Cinches tie*

First let me say this is the best game I've played in almost 30 years of playing video games (I'm not old, I just cut my teeth very early in life). Series wise, what Mass Effect did to capture my imagination was amazing and these are one of the few games I'll play over and over...and over again.

While overall I was fairly satisfied with the ending I got (ie; Reapers topple and the implication that my crew and Shepard survive) it left me with the following, gnawing questions, assuming there's no credence to the prevailing Indoctrination Theory:

1. What happens now that the Mass Relays are gone and various races are now stranded on various planets? Planets that were fought for?
2. What happens to Shepard's crew since it seems they are stranded in a seemingly deserted place with varying dietary needs to meet?
3. How badly did the fleets suffer from the blast considering Joker barely made it in a suped up frigate? Is Hackett dead?
4. Bearing #3 in mind, what happens to Shepard if he "survived"? Does he bleed out or suffocate under the rubble or does he get rescued and Anderson's body recovered?
5. An AI created the synthetic Reapers to harvest (...kill) organics to stop synthetics from killing organics? To destroy chaos? This could be explained more since on the surface it appears contradictory. And what is meant by "chaos"?
6. How did synthesis work with the Geth and Reapers? The star child tells us that destruction would kill the Geth and Reapers, but what would synthesis do? The implication was also that since Shepard is part synthetic that he would feel the effects. He draws breath...so what were the effects?
7. How can a dead Shepard control anything? Star Child says that Shepard WILL die if he choses control...so how does a corpse command?
8. What function do the reapers serve if they are now controlled...even if by a dead person? Do they rebuild the worlds they destroyed? Write letters of apology and say "we're listening" (ok, ok, I'm being mean...I can't help it).

These endings leaves several loose ends and the epilogues seem to suggest that everything works out regardless if you chose control, destruction or synthesis.

In the past 4-5 years I, like others, have grown to care about the characters and universe that was created. We're left hanging with the endings as is.

Thank you for your time and attention.

[Canden_Zain]

Cheep Cheep Cheep wrote...

www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62230265


I don't know if that's true or not, but if it was, that would be AMAZING, and have tons of replay value. I would be more than happy with that or something similar.

The other change I would want is a tweak to the Journal system. The Journal system was extremely vague about where you were supposed to go or what you already accomplished in a quest. For instance, I had to google where the Elcor homeworld was to be able to do that mission, and I really shouldn't have to do things like that - the Journal should tell me which star system my quest is located in. 

I have to say that flow chart of endings actually makes sense and explains the weird inconsistencies of the endings we got. 

I... Want to believe.

[Alpha revan]

I'll say this.. While i would enjoy an entirely new ending more fitting to the rest of the series... If they choose to keep the current one. I'd like to see at least an optimal ending where you survive, the Normandy isn't stranded and the relays are intact.. Put the EMS system to good use. I honestly figured with EMS It would determine my fleets ability to defeat the reapers through conventional means efficiently. I wanted to see more epic space battle, more reapers getting blown up, and more of my allied forces fighting on earth.

Needs more variation in endings tied to your decisions

Plot holes fixed/make sense

Preffered:

More fitting ending related to the feel of the series

Multitude of ending scenarios based off decisions with good and bad endings (shep survival, relays intact, normandy in sol system intact)

I do think the ID theory fits pretty well for this.

Modifié par Alpha revan, 22 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[Foreste]

Eire Icon wrote...

Honestly I didn't hate the ending, I didn't even dislike it but I did think it was incomplete and didn't give the player closure for a wonderful journey that took us 5 years to make. If Bioware were to add content to it, giving me more closure on the Shepard arc I would be delighted, the more the better I say

this sums it up for me, and just to make it clear i'm still getting a tattoo of Tali and Garrus

[mattp516]

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...

*copypasta*

1.  Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes. 

2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.

3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:

Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.

Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.

Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.

Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.

High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers. 

High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.


Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion. 

In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.

To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.

The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.

The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
                                Synthesis              Take down Sheilds
                                                __________/ 
                                               (                       )
                 Destroy    --------(                          ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
                                               (                       )
                                                -----------------
                                               /                      
                                      Control                Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.

EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.

5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.

EXAMPLE: 

Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).

Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”

Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.

Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity

Ect.

6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM. 



Anyway, that's my whole view on it. 


THIS WAY:  
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place. 

How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone. 

Like this a lot! Would like to keep it on top so devs see it.
This one is also great. 
http://social.biowar.../index/10456403 

[mattp516]

I would like to comment that I disagree with the suggestion being put forward by some that the fleets should be able to defeat the Reapers through conventional means only if EMS is high enough. The rest of the lore and the entire ME3 game makes it clear that this would be impossible - SOME kind of Deux ex Machina has to come into play to end the Reaper threat - I had no problem with that.

[mattp516]

maki0129 wrote...

Alright, constructive criticism. Here it goes.

I'd have liked it for the Reapers to remain shrouded in mistery.

The motivation we were given by the Catalyst (creepy god-child), was a complete contradiction to two rather MAJOR story arcs in the game, Rannoch, and the EDI/Joker romance.

You've decided the Mass Effect relays have to be destroyed, which is obviously to pave the way for future games of the Mass Effect franchise, since it's such an overpowering part of the ending. I'd like to state outright that in my honest opinion, that was definitely and completely the wrong way to go about it, you should have catered the ending to SATISFY your audience, not just yourselves and your plot needs for future games. Mass Effect 3 was supposed to be THE END, a well-rounded fulfilling close to it would have been a lot more preferable to us than an open ended finale. But since you seem to be hellbent on this, I'd have at least liked some closure about what comes after the Mass Effect relays are destroyed, if not for the whole galaxy. Then at the very least for the characters we grew to love and care about.

If you're really hellbent on the open ended then may I suggest you at least come through on the promises you made. Most of which, you broke shamelessly and horribly...

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of the planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildly different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters."
--Casey Hudson

Nope, same ending, only in 3 different colors.

"We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that..."
--Mike Gamble

And yet, here we all are, with the same ending and pretty much the same cutscene, only in 3 different colors.

"Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. Bioware will not do a 'Lost' and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game."
--Mike Gamble

*deep breath*

Why is the conclusion of AI vs natural life such a given if Shepard had just proven it wrong? What happened to the crew of the Normandy? When did the Reapers come to life? What was Dark Energy and how was it related to the whole thing? Merging synthetic and organic life through one magic wave, how would that even work? If Shepard lives, does he ever settle down and have children of whatever color? Fleets of aliens have now been stranded on Sol, what now? Who lived and who died in the battle against the Reapers? What will happen to the Krogan if you cured the genophage, and what if you didn't? Why didn't I get a final confrontation with Harbinger? What was up with Shepard's nightmares, was the child in them real or was Shepard hallucinating all along? If he was hallucinating, what does that mean? Who is the catalyst and why does he get to decide the fate of the galaxy? And if he's this important to the plot, why am I just being introduced to him in the last five minutes to the game? And why does he look like the child in Shepard's nightmares?

And those are just off the top off my head.

Now, I understand that you wanted the series to retain an air of mistery, really. I get that, but for questions to retain an air of mistery after the finale, you should give them a sense of satisfaction with the resolution main-story arc. You didn't. You left it all up in the air, so much, you don't leave people interested and motivated to find out and speculate. You just make them give up on a story that just seems unfinished and badly crafted.

This finale makes the finale of Lost seem conclusive, well-rounded and fulfilling.

"Pretty much everything that people want to see wrapped up, or to be given answers, will be."
--Dr. Ray Muzyka

See above.

"I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people."
--Mike Gamble

And yet, we only got one ending. At most we can say we have 6 endings, and all of them leave a soul crushing unsatisfied feeling in me, and as you can see here, LOTS of other people.

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”
--Casey Hudson

Instead we get "pick your flavor, cherry, blue berry or lime".

I get a lot more choice in Ben & Jerry's.

"[The presence of the rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
--Mac Walters

Yes, it gives us a whopping 100 points EMS score!

It's kind of disappointing that the Rachni presence has as much consequence to the end of the game as two any other random side missions throughout it.

"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."
--Casey Hudson

See above.

"Of course you don’t have to play
multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in
single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and
same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing."
--Casey Hudson

This is the most truthful of all the statements here, and it's still mildly untrue.

"Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
--Casey Hudson

Except, I didn't get to decide how all these things came to an end, regardless of what I did and the choices I made, at the end of the day I get the same flavor of ice-cream, only in three different colors.

We were promised 16 WILDLY different endings.

Charitably, we can at most say we got 6 BARELY different endings. None of them justified or consistent with the theme of the game. And one of them (synthesis) so non-sensical it has been dubbed "space-magic". And they're driven, respectfully, by an out-of-thin-air Deus Ex Machina creepy child thing whose existence I see no reason for. The ending could have easily gone without the appearance of the Catalyst (creepy god-child), you could have replaced him with Harbinger and it would have been better. You could have done without him, and it would have been better.

Hell, you could have cut to the red/blue wave immediately after the Citadel arms open, and it would have still been better, you could have left Shepard to die there too, along with Anderson, and it would have been great too.

The minute you raised that magic platform to the Catalyst thing, you ruined it all.

EDIT: On a completely different matter other than the ending, PLEASE fix the journal system too, not being able to track the progress on my quests in it is just horrible and confusing and had me going around the Citadel round and round and round looking for whoever I was supposed to be looking.

Agreed, as well.

[maki0129]

mattp516 wrote...

I would like to comment that I disagree with the suggestion being put forward by some that the fleets should be able to defeat the Reapers through conventional means only if EMS is high enough. The rest of the lore and the entire ME3 game makes it clear that this would be impossible - SOME kind of Deux ex Machina has to come into play to end the Reaper threat - I had no problem with that.

I completely agree with that.

I have nothing against the whole Crucible thing, hooking it up to the Citadel, and then having a magic wave come take the reapers out.

I just think the game could have done without the Catalyst as a god-child and the non-sensical conversation you have with him.

I'd say, if Shepard just died after opening the arms of the citadel, and then they cut immediately to the wave in whatever color you want, and then we just had an epilogue where they buried the guy with a nice little eulogy from the LI or whoever. THAT would have been better than what we got right now.

[mattp516]

Skyvale wrote...

Dear Bioware,

As you requested, here's my constructive criticism on the Mass Effect 3 endings.

My criticisms can be divided into two categories--my issues from a storytelling standpoint, and from a business standpoint.  I'll address those from a business standpoint first.

The broken promises--why I bought the game, and why the product I paid for wasn't delivered.

Bioware, if you regard only one part of this letter, let this be it.  Here's several quotes given by Bioware staff in interviews prior to ME3's release, that explain exactly why we are dissatisfied with the endings:

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of the planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter.  This will result in a story that diverges into wildly
different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters."
--Casey Hudson

"We wouldn't do it any other way.  How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?  But I can't say any more than that..."
--Mike Gamble

"Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending.  Bioware will not do a 'Lost' and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game."
--Mike Gamble

"Pretty much everything that people want to see wrapped up, or to be given answers, will be."
--Dr. Ray Muzyka

"I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people."
--Mike Gamble

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”
--Casey Hudson 

"[The presence of the rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
--Mac Walters

"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."
--Casey Hudson

"Of course you don’t have to play
multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in
single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and
same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing." 
--Casey Hudson

"Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”
--Caseuy Hudson

(Emphasis mine.)

I, and many others, purchased or preordered the game because of the promises made.  These promises were
not delivered.  In fact, not only that, but it seems in most cases their exact opposite was what we received.  The most egregious and telling quote is this one:

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff.
It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C... The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”
--Casey Hudson

(Emphasis mine.)

What's particularly insulting about this quote is that this is exactly the kind of ending we received--where we were forced to pick between option A, B, or C (red, blue or green).  More, these options bear an uncanny similarity to those given at the end of Deus Ex, which I found to be incredibly disappointing.  But in the end, even these choices don't matter, a point which I'll get to in a moment.

The players were explicitly promised these features, and these were features that were very important to us.  Clearly, if the staff were expounding upon these features being available in the interviews, they were very much aware of this--which is why it's so baffling that we, the paying consumers, received exactly the opposite of this when we paid $60-$80 or more for the game. Instead of the sixteen "wildly different" endings that we were explicitly promised, we were given three endings that different almost only in color, and beyond that, in trivialities
and only in ways that are noticed when watching the endings side-by-side for comparison.

My Criticisms of the Narrative

My--and it seems a large majority of other's--greatest issues lie with the broken promises I just showed you, and this is, indeed, the heart of the issue.  That is largely the reason why we are so dissatisfied.  But
I also can't ignore the severe drop in narrative quality in the last five minutes of the game, and since you asked for constructive critique of the endings, I want to give exactly that.

The endings to Mass Effect 3 fly in the face of the tone and themes established since the very first game, and emphasized throughout the second and third.  In the last five minutes, the themes that the series was built upon--those of heroic triumph despite impossible odds, unity and diversity, tolerance and acceptance--were disregarded.  Instead, a message of fatalism, predestiny, and Lovecraftian cosmicism was introduced that was the literal opposite of the previous 100+ hours of gameplay.  The synthesis ending, especially--the
"best" ending one can receive--is especially in violation of this, because it says that the only way for there to be galactic peace is to homogenize every living thing in the galaxy by force.  Even Javik mentions that homogenization was the reason for the Protheans' demise.  But instead of celebrating diversity, and proving that despite diversity we can have peace across an entire galaxy--as Shepard has done throughout all three games--the only solution is, apparently, to eliminate it entirely. 

Furthermore, Mass Effect is a narrative established around the Hero's Journey, with a classic narrative structure of Introduction, Rising Action, Climax, and Denouement.  This was established in the first two games, and the third adhered to this structure as well--until the very end.  I never felt like the climax was truly reached.  In the first game, the climax was the fight with Saren.  In the second, it was the fight with the human Reaper.  In the third, it felt like the Illusive Man was leading up to a final fight... and then we encounter the Starchild.  Instead of having a final fight like we expected (my money was on fighting Harbinger), we were instead shown that the climax was, in fact, the confrontation with the Illusive Man.  (Which felt like a distilled version of the Saren confrontation in ME1, but without even a fight that followed, which made it feel especially unsatisfactory.)  What followed, then, was supposed to
be the conclusion... except it wasn't.  In the "conclusion," we were introduced to an entirely new character,
who--by designer choice--provided absolutely no answers to the questions we were promised.  We were then
asked to make a choice based on its incredibly flawed logic.

And then the story was over.  We received no closure, only a cryptic and irrelevant scene of Buzz Aldrin's voice
talking about "the Shepard" to a child, in a setting that looks like it was ripped from the "Winter on Mars" desktop image, and then a prompt telling us to buy DLC to experience more of Shepard's story.  We were not even treated to Dragon Age-style epilogue slides explaining what happened to the characters we have come to love and cherish over the last five years.  The writers instead decided it was more important to include an "artsy" scene with Buzz Aldrin's voice that addressed absolutely nothing, and added absolutely nothing to the story.  Instead of reaching the climax and the following denouement, where we were supposed to receive a resolution and answers to all the questions we had, we instead received new information, and were introduced to a new character never before alluded or foreshadowed to.  This was not just a violation of the reader-writer contract, but of the story's core narrative structure.  Eliminating the climax and denouement of a story built upon this premise doesn't feel "artsy" or "cerebral."  It definitely does feel unexpected, but not in a good way.  It feels incomplete, rushed, and hackneyed--to call it artistic is not an excuse for an incomplete and logically flawed ending.  This is a large reason as to why the ending feels so jarring and out of place. 

The Plotholes

There's two major points I'd like to bring up here, so I'll break it down
further.

The Mass Relays

This is the one that gets to me the most, because it has the biggest and most negating impact on our choices and the Mass Effect setting as a whole.

In every option the Starchild gives us, the destruction of the mass relays is always a result.  The
problem: in the Arrival DLC and the Codex, it was made extremely clear that the destruction of a mass relay wipes out the nearby solar system.  When Shepard picks any choice the Starchild offers, all of the mass relays are destroyed... wiping out every solar system attached to one, and all life within them.  Shepard effectively wipes out more organic life in five minutes than the Reapers ever even intended to every 50,000 years, simply for picking a color.  The galaxy would literally have been better off if Shepard just stood there until the Crucible was destroyed.  Many would have died, but less would have.

Even if the destruction of the mass relays is hand-waved as being "a different kind of explosion" (which it really shouldn't be--this would cheapen the narrative, as the consequences for destroying a mass relay were made
abundantly clear and no alternatives were ever foreshadowed), this really doesn't make things better.  The
problem is that even if life miraculously survives these explosions, billions of aliens are now stranded above a ruined Earth--every race's military, their leaders, and the entire quarian race.  Even if Earth was completely healthy and fully functioning, it couldn't support the full human population on its own, let alone billions or trillions of
aliens.  Even if the victory fleet were to somehow find a colony that, coincidentally, is close by that could, miraculously, still support life, it couldn't support all of them.  And to say that they miraculously did manage to work around this problem by finding miraculously well-stocked colonies that somehow weren't ruined by the Reapers would further cheapen the narrative.  And even if this did happen?  There's not only that, but the fact that not enough of the each race, except for the quarians and asari, are present to create a viable and genetically diverse
population to perpetuate their existence.  Furthermore, the quarians and turians stand absolutely no chance, being unable to consume human food.  Everyone that Shepard gathered to fight against the Reapers would starve to death (or be eaten by the krogan) before anyone was able to reverse-engineer a dead mass relay that exploded into who knows how many pieces and be able to travel back to their home planets.

So simply for picking one of Starchild's choices, Shepard wipes out most all organic life in the galaxy. There really is no way to write around this, and any conceivable excuse is just going to sound really cheap and seem like
the product of "space magic."  I'll get into the lack of choice problem, but this is a big one, because even with
our "red, green, blue" options, we really only get one ending... which is the obliteration of organic life in the Milky Way galaxy.

Jokers and the Normandy

How did Joker escape?  The only way he could have is if he fled the battle--which is extremely out of character for him.  I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he'd sooner sacrifice himself in the final fight than turn and run before the mass relays even started exploding.  Admiral Hackett wouldn't have called for a retreat at any point, especially not when Commander Shepard had only just reached the Crucible and hadn't yet fired it.  But even if Joker did flee, how did he manage to pick up several of your squadmates, all of whom were on Earth and with you?  The cutscenes that follow your choice show that destruction of the mass relays happens virtually immediately after you make your choice, so it's simply impossible that he not only makes it to the Charon relay in time, but that he also picks up your squad along the way.  I simply cannot see how Joker managed to do this, unless Transporter technology was suddenly added to the Normandy and nobody knew about it.  Again, any attempt to explain this is
inevitably going to sound like the product of "space magic."

The jungle planet the Normandy crashes on isn't so much a plot hole as it is a cheap narrative allusion that comes way out of the left field.  Especially in the synthesis ending, it's implied that the crew that lands becomes the Adam and Eve of this new planet, which has long since passed into "discredited trope" territory.  To say that Adam and Eve endings are bad writing is like saying McDonald's is low quality food--maybe not every single person will agree with you, but you'd have a hard time arguing that it isn't.  To see a game series with such spectacular and clever writing throughout resort to this kind of discredited and cheap literary tactic was disappointing, to say the least.

The Starchild and its Logic

I know I'm not the only fan who thinks that "we need to create synthetics that kill organics in order to keep organics from creating synthetics that kill organics" is a ridiculous notion.  In that case, why don't the Reapers only intervene when synthetics start killing organics, and kill the synthetics?  Why not use their stopping power to
eliminate that threat, instead of destroying organic life that might create synthetics that might rebel against their creators at some point in the future?

The synthetics vs. organics theme was always present in Mass Effect, but it was not the most prominent theme--more, the inevitability of synthetic/organic war is subverted by EDI, and by a Shepard that unites the quarians and geth.  The themes of heroic triumph, unity, and diversity were always far stronger and far more important.  So why is it that in the last five minutes we're treated to a Battlestar Galactica-style lesson on the inevitability of war between humans and machines?  This alone came out of nowhere, and added to the Starchild's circular logic, none of it makes sense.

From what I've seen, many players would have preferred that the Reapers' intentions remain mysterious and unexplained.  I'll admit I was looking forward to finding out what it was the moment it was foreshadowed by the dying Reaper on Rannoch, but I find leaving it unexplained a far more preferable alternative to the explanation we were given, which makes no sense whatsoever.  More, the thought of the Reapers being the creations of the Starchild cheapens their existence and turns them from mysterious, unfathomable forces of unimaginable power that seem to be straight out of a cosmic horror story into pawns in an AI's illogical and vengeful
vendetta against organic life.  It makes them petty and laughable, rather than awe-inspiring and intimidating
villains.

The Starchild's existence, too, creates a plot hole that renders the entire plot of the first Mass Effect invalid--because if the Starchild is the Citadel, then why would it need anyone else to activate the Conduit for it?

The Lack of Choice, and Impact of Choice

The whole scene with the Starchild felt extremely out of place for a Mass Effect game, namely because of the complete lack of choice.  We aren't given options to investigate or ask the questions that we're dying to have the answers to--and what amazes me is that excluding this was a conscious choice by the writers.  Have they played the rest of the games?  Furthermore, we couldn't even ask the Starchild to repeat its options, when we could in nearly every other Mass Effect conversation that we had.  I had the game paused for so long while I agonized over my choices that I'd completely forgotten which color was which.  Then I decided it didn't even matter, because it the end, all the choices resulted in the deaths of almost every living thing in the galaxy anyway, and so I picked at
random.  I then reviewed the outcomes of the other choices I could have made on Youtube.  I realized I hadn't been wrong--my choices really didn't impact anything at all.

And why couldn't my Shepard refute the Starchild's logic?  I was amazed there wasn't an Interrupt option, or an Intimidate/Charm option available to me at all.  If I didn't buy the Starchild's logic, then why in the world would Shepard?

But it isn't just about the Starchild, but about the war assets we had gathered too.  We were promised that
things such as the rachni queen would have a noticeable impact upon our game. However, despite all the war assets I had gathered and all the choices I had made, the final battle remained the exact same as everyone
else's.  I expected to see krogan warriors charging, quarians and geth fighting side-by-side, the rachni queen and her children taking the Reapers head on.  We saw none of this.  Our war assets amounted to nothing beyond a score--a score cut in half if you didn't participate in multiplayer, and a score that amounted to identical endings anyway.  After all the time I and other fans spent fostering the peace between turians and krogan, between the quarians and geth, I at least expected a couple seconds of footage that showed them actually participating in my battle.  All we are treated to, however, is the sight of humans in London seeing either red, green, or blue explosions.  Depending on how many war assets you gathered, they may or may not raise their arms, and Big Ben may or may not be destroyed.

We were promised sixteen "wildly different" endings.  The media is making a huge fuss about how we're upset that we didn't get a happy ending, but I hope I and others have made it clear that this isn't about that.  But with the amount of potential there is for the story to branch off in "wildly different" directions, I was expecting endings that ranged from Shepard riding off into the sunset with Garrus to retire on a beach and live happily ever after, to bittersweet "Armageddon" style endings where Shepard sacrifices themself for the greater good, to endings where we see a Shepard VI or one of Liara's time capsules warning the next spacefaring civilization 50,000 years in the future about the Reaper threat.  It's not that we didn't get a happy ending--it's that we didn't get to choose our ending, happy or sad, bittersweet or miserable, when we were told that we would be able to.  We don't even get the satisfaction of seeing how our three choices affected the galaxy in the end (that is, before everyone eventually died off), because we weren't given a conclusion.  Buzz Aldrin's voice, apparently, was far more important than finding out what happened to the characters we've cared about for five years.

And of course, like I mentioned before, any and all choice is negated in the end by the annihilation of organic life caused by the destruction of the mass relays.  Our choices aren't just not taken into account--they're completely undone.

What I Would Like to See Bioware Do:

I'd like to see a DLC released that gives us exactly what we were promised before the game's release--the sixteen "wildly different" endings we were promised, that don't contain plot holes so big they make what happened in the endings we were given downright impossible and render the first game's plot invalid.  I want to see
closure, for which the absolute least that could be done would be Dragon Age-style epilogue slides, though I think most preferably, I and other fans would like to see some cinematics showing us what's happened to the people and places we care about.  I want to see the choice we were promised, and I want to see it impact the story
in a significant way.  I want all of my questions answered--not "lots of speculation"--again, like we were promised.

In Summary:

The first 99% of Mass Effect was a wonderful, beautiful game.  The last five minutes, however, not only failed to deliver the promises made about the ending and variety of choice, but directly subverted them.  I and many others feel that we were misled by these promises and did not receive the product we paid for.  Additionally, the ending we were given felt very sub-par in comparison to the rest of the game because of its glaring lore issues, plot holes, and narrative flaws.  I do not feel like I received my money's worth because I bought the game based on the promises the developers made that were clearly not kept, and I would like to see each of these issues
addressed and remedied.

The "this is our artistic choice" defense is not a valid argument.  The story has clear and damaging narrative flaws.  According to the setting's own internal logic and lore, the franchise cannot possibly continue to
exist after Shepard makes their final choice.  The ending could not have possibly happened the way it did.  To
defend a rushed, flawed, and illogical ending that disregards the promises that were made to the paying consumers by saying "this is art and must therefore be held sacred" is simply an invalid excuse.  We are paying consumers.  If Bioware would like to see themselves as artists, then understand that by promising to deliver a customer a portrait and then instead handing them an abstract painting is not good business practice, or defensible by saying "but this is my artistic choice."  As an artist, I fully understand the desire to defend your artistic integrity, but the moment you start making promises to your customers, you are bound to deliver exactly what you promised, regardless of your "artistic vision," lest you be held culpable for your actions and are--rightly--asked that you change your product to fulfill your promises.

I paid $80 for this game based on the promises you made to us, and then broke.   This is the crux of the issue.  The fact that these promises were broken in order to give us a sub-par, illogical, broken narrative is just icing on the cake at this point.  Regardless of how different fans feel about the current endings, there is no denying Bioware's promises have not been delivered.

Thank you for your time,
Rebel Mel/Skyvale

Respectful and very well thought out. Please read this, BW.

[Alpha revan]

maki0129 wrote...

mattp516 wrote...

I would like to comment that I disagree with the suggestion being put forward by some that the fleets should be able to defeat the Reapers through conventional means only if EMS is high enough. The rest of the lore and the entire ME3 game makes it clear that this would be impossible - SOME kind of Deux ex Machina has to come into play to end the Reaper threat - I had no problem with that.

I completely agree with that.

I have nothing against the whole Crucible thing, hooking it up to the Citadel, and then having a magic wave come take the reapers out.

I just think the game could have done without the Catalyst as a god-child and the non-sensical conversation you have with him.

I'd say, if Shepard just died after opening the arms of the citadel, and then they cut immediately to the wave in whatever color you want, and then we just had an epilogue where they buried the guy with a nice little eulogy from the LI or whoever. THAT would have been better than what we got right now.

I don't disagree that the crucible should play a role, But i preffer it being used soley to defeat the reapers and not effect all life in the galaxy, destroying the relays, and requiring shepard to be the catalyst. It should simply be a weapon and thats all.

[earth_angel]

If you really want not to change the endings it would be nice to give a new meaning to / point of view on them. Shepard could have known what would happen (he could have find out when trying to find in some Prothean archives what the crucible is supposed to do ; or from some Butarian research archives). Then the ending as we know it would only be a confirmation that everything went as he planned. And this would mean the crews of the ships that came to earth knew what was awaiting them (but only if you have made the right choices before).

Something that needs clarification is the consequences of my choices and why EMS plays an important role when you are on the citadel.

I do not mind not knowing what the reapers are and where they came from or who build them but I would like to know more on the keepers, on the leviathan of dis and the Dereclict reaper.

If shepard died I would have liked to see its companions mourning him (especially the LI) to give the players time to mourn this end of Shepard's story. Blue babies / big house with dog would have been a big plus. Knowing what does happen to the different races / characters would be good too.

I really want to have the opportunity to visit other towns than just the cidatel. Being able to move in many towns is something is miss. I would love to see more of Sur'kesh or Rannoch or Thessia. I had the feeling of not being able to stay long enough on homeworlds.

Finally if the realys are blown up, it would be great too know that the galactic society has not disappeared and that different worlds still communicate through non reaper technology.

Modifié par earth_angel, 22 mars 2012 - 05:43 .