7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Xion66]

So, after having let all the feelings i had after reading Dr. Ray Muzyka's statement sink in and reverting back to my usually lurking self, I think it's time and that I need to express my concerns about the whole ending debacle on a more personal level, leaving the solely lore/plot argumentation I had for myself.

I am a Bioware fan, I've been following your games ever since I first started getting into gaming, and I've always held you in high regard, mostly for the amazing stories and characters you create but above that, your commitment to make your fanbase feel part of the universes you create, and listening and tweaking your games according to feedback has always been what separates you from other developers, it gives humanity to the logo, and I've been an avid supporter, for you've marked my life, both through storytelling and sometimes on my outlook on some aspects of life.

But now, things are getting out of hand, fans of your work are getting their names dragged in mud and inner conflicts have arisen. your own name as a label a symbol and brand of quality and yet you close yourself in this cold and utterly corporate manner, you do not show support for your fans and core audience, and no i'm not saying supporting their ideas or wants, but supporting the fact that they care enough to the point of being ridiculed by parts of the media, at least say you are proud of them, and mention their efforts, do not negate their concerns with what the critics say, and how you weigh reviews vs fans and act like they have the same weight.

You defend your team with tooth and nail, value their artistic integrity and uphold it as your main priority but is that really the issue here? If the writers wrote, expanded, gave possibilities, extended beyond and around, revamped and cleaned everything regarding their Lore, would it still not be the writer's vision? I am opposed eliminating or just taking lore that was written by your team, I am not opposed to the writer's with the fans in their heart and valuing feedback, writing content that give people what they want, this does not change art, this does not break artistic vision people are not asking (for the most part) that you erase things from your painting, they are asking the painter for new strokes, meaningful content that truly meets their expectations and helps them say goodbye and enjoy your work.

Yet, all I can read from your statement is the bare minimum, all I see is an effort to diminish the outcries and vague promisses of explanations and maybe some new closing lines, this is not what people want, this is not compromise, this is a sign that you do not value feedback as much as you insist that you do, you pride yourselves in multitude of choices, and plot threads, on diversity but yet you fight for immutability of the core issues, and offer dressings for it, clearing and explaining isn't enough, you need to rework, expand and offer what you promissed, and I truly believe that you can do this, without diminishing the effort of the ME3 team, it's writers, and especially without dismissing the fanbase.

The game is a brilliant accomplishment, it succeeded and surpassed all my expectations, the perfect balance between fanservice, creative writing, setting things in canon and stone, finishing plotlines and yet, during those final five minutes of the game I did not see that, all I saw was a very personal take on a story, when there should have been a semblance of a wide take and variety of personal takes of endings, for the first time in 96 hours, 3 games, and 5 years, I didn't feel included in the story, as a player, as a reader, as a fan, I felt like it was a highly personal decision, not even shared by an entire team in my belief, and that is my biggest issue with the ending, there weren't possibilities and endings for everyone, only for a few.

Bioware has always said and advocated that their fans are the most important asset they have, their pride and joy and yet when responding to them you put up walls and valued critics and defended yourselves with reviews, well I have to say, where will those reviews and journalists be when your name doesn't carry the weight it does now, you value the same press that was mixed at best for Neverwinter Nights 2 more while you shun out the same fans who stuck with you and your work as developers and writers and saw the most positive things in your game.

I truly believed when I got to the credits of ME3 i'd see a small little note on the Thank You Section of the credits to the fans, like musicians do, and writers do, and even some movies do, but as shown by this PR and Ending distaster you have so far only shown that you value your fans until the point where they disagree.

I say thanks to Bioware for the stories where they truly make me feel like I was a part of it, I say thanks to the community who shares my love for the games, to the community managers who have always reached out in the biggest firestorms and still do, but it's not enough, until I can truly see that fans matter more than reviews and pride I cannot see Bioware as willing to dialog, I can only see it doing the bare minimum, so Dr.Ray, are you doing your damnest for the fans or for the critics and the pride.

Because the way you seem you're going it's the latter and not the former, and if my suspicions and fears are proven right I will truly feel betrayed for once.


Prove me wrong,


Just a fan

[phagus]

Here is my rough idea about a new ending... It starts when shep is on the floor and trying to get to the panel after
he/she is told that the crucible hasn't fired... and he mumbles that he's not sure how before he falls unconscious.
then it fades to black and we see the scenes we want to see.. all your war assets and crew in a fight to the death
with reaper forces in space and on earth, scenes of sacrifice and heroism, with music to match. Then shep comes
round to the booming voice of Harbinger coming from the reanimated corpse of The Illusive man.. he says that you
have failed and the cycle will always continue or words to that effect.. shep struggles to get up to defend
him/herself as harbinger is looking down on you about to put a bullet in your head..when Hackett says over the
radio that allied forces have broken through and have got to the beam and are coming to the citadel.. just as your
sure Shep is about to be killed.. your crew, love interest rush to your aid and fire on harbinger/TIM.. saving you,
your love interest rushing to your side.. after a few words are spoken between you.. you hear a shreek as floods
of husks, mauraders, brutes, banshees.. you get the picture.. rush your position.. then the cutscene of your crew
forces fighting to the death to hold that position and ultimately save you so you can get to the panel and activate
the crucible. You struggle to rise and make your way in slow motion through the battle to the panel.. then shep
realises that he/she is the catalyst..(as only a person with the cypher can understand)..he activates the panel and
rises to where the crucible beam is.. to be met by the crucible AI..(it could be the kid) then you get the explanations you need that make sense and the choices open to you.. that depend on the choices you've made
throughout the three games..and war assets you have.. all of the choices will result in sacrifice of either
yourself , the mass relays, the citadel your crew, your allies etc.. then you make a choice there is a blinding
flash and the choice plays out and you see cutscenes of what happens after to yourself, crew , allies and of course
the Reapers and Earth..roll the stirring music and credits. The blanks can be filled in by bioware..What do you
think? Bioware can have this idea for free and I don't even want any credit.. just please give us all some proper
closure, so we can look forward to the next great Mass Effect game.

[CirusTheVirus666]

Shamaril wrote...

I don't want the changes to be free DLC.

I want them to be $10 DLC minimum--$20 DLC would be amazing.  To the people who are demanding they be free DLC: you know that big section that gets added to the credits every time you download new DLC?  They have to pay all of those people.  If you want voiced DLC, which I imagine you do, then they have to pay celebrities. If they charge for the DLC, then they'll have a much bigger budget to make it with, and the quality and scope will be significantly greater as a result.  

This! I am a big supporter of changing the endings and if bioware does do it right, I will gladly pay them for it! The actors and resources needed would be huge. Although, I would love additional content for the extra $10, heck even $20 that I am paying to support and continue the ME series, not just an ending:whistle: More LI conversations, maybe bring 1-2 characters back from ME 2 and give them romance options? More side quests too! And if they combined all those with a "Taking back Omega" quest with Aria?! TAKE MY MONEY! *throws it at the screen*

I just hope to god that Bioware does it right and keeps the mass effect series continuing.

[Bullseye 14048]

win or lose the war, live or die. I just wanted to turn away away from those ending choices and blow up the crucible so no one else could ever make a choice a like that. I didnt defend the geth to exterminate them, I didnt hunt the elusive man to be like him, and i didnt want imply that two different kinds of species had to be fused to coexist like the Saren inspired choice. Think about how every choice is incredibly unethical.

genocide, intolerance, and dictatorship were my only options...not what i really associate with the mass effect series or my personal playthrough of the three games.

no offense to bioware Im sure they didnt have that in mind when they made it, but thats how the concept jumped out of me.

[danbruno]

I don't really post here, but I've been lurking a lot recently because this whole ending controversy is totally fascinating to me. I thought I'd weigh in briefly.

First, I should say that Mass Effect 3 is far and away my favorite game in the series. Kudos to everyone at BioWare who worked on it! (I can go into specifics if anyone is curious, but that seems beside the point of this thread.)
That said, it seems clear by now that the ending did not work as you intended. I wrote a bit about why I think that is; if that post makes you tl;dr, the main thesis is that you mistook fans' investment in the characters for interest in the fate of the universe as a whole.

Put another way, despite the game's best efforts no one was ever actually interested in saving the galaxy -- we have no emotional connection to "the galaxy" an abstract concept. (See Mordin's comment in Mass Effect 2 about fighting to save his favorite nephew.) Rather, we wanted to save the people -- Garrus, Tali, Liara, and all the rest. They were the primary focus of the preceding hundred-odd hours of the story, and an ending that vaguely hints at hope for future generations while ignoring the fate of everyone's favorite characters -- or, indeed, all characters -- was bound to be a disappointment.

One implication of this theory -- which I think has panned out -- is that the biggest Mass Effect fans are the ones feeling the most betrayed by the ending, because they had built the strongest connections with those characters. They're also the ones most likely to notice and pick apart plot holes, of course, which explains the, er, vehemence of the feedback on BSN.

Anyway, regarding "suggested changes": if I'm reading between the lines correctly, you don't plan to alter the ending in any significant way. Even speaking as someone who didn't like the ending, I can understand that; certainly it would set an unsettling precedent for future games! (Which is not to say I wouldn't consider buying DLC if you did change it...)

What I do think would help, though, is closing the story with the characters. Don't try to tie up everyone's story arcs in the pre-combat section of London; show us what happens to them after the final battle. Let us know who survives, who reacts to Shepard's death, who can make it home without the mass relays. Then, if you must pull the camera back and show us the eventual fate of the galaxy because that's how you'd like the story to end, so be it.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for Mass Effect. It's been a hell of a ride.

Modifié par danbruno, 23 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[GabrielK]

I've been thinking about what Bioware could do in terms of "fixing" the ending while expending a minimum of resources--because let's face it, we're better off keeping our expectations realistic (although I would LOVE them to surprise me by going whole hog on a huge DLC patch to totally revamp things). You know what would salvage* the ending for me (at least for the "Destroy" path)?

OK so Shepard shoots up that control thing...red light everywhere. The Reapers shut down...OK so far no change. BUT...when that big red beam shoots out of the Citadel, and it hits the relay, instead of blowing it to pieces, it causes a wave of red energy to sweep out of it in all directions. Every Reaper ship in the system that's caught in that wave shuts down immediately. Then we see the beam going from relay to relay across the galaxy, and we can logically infer that Reapers are being shut down in every system where there is a relay.

Then, instead of cutting to the Normandy crash landing (because that's just Bwuh?), we can cut to reaction shots of Shepard's friends both on Earth, and across the galaxy. Some will be cheering, some will be mourning, some might even be dead. And we have either a voiceover or at this point, I'll settle for just text boxes giving us the fate of not only the various characters, but the various factions and civilizations that we've interacted with over the course of three games.


*And when I say salvage, I mean (mostly) wash away the dissatisfaction I have as a result of the actual ending we got. Even this isn't ideal, but I think it's a more realistic expectation then getting a full blown rewrite of the ending.

[ZoMbIEx23x]

[quote]KONG33 wrote...


This here is great. I would just add that you make it possible to get any of these endings without galactic readiness being tied to it. Not to exclude it but some do not do multiplayer. I guess you would need to add more military assets to the galactic map to make it possible.

[quote]

There needs to be at least 10k military assets in order for you to not have to play multiplayer. I have a better idea than that though. Ask the player if they want multiplayer to affect their particular playthrough. If no, than they have 100% military assets ready automatically or if they complete all N7 missions. If yes, than it sets to 50% and you have to work to get it up to 100%.
I noticed that currently your Readiness rating goes down. This is worrying to me because what If I want to play this game a year or two from now and I can't get the ending my character deserves because multiplayer is dead? What then? This is a huge problem for the game in my opinion.

[Uber Rod]

I agree with Anteocitis. People hate the ending because it doesn't make sense.

Overall, ME3 is brilliant. However the ending ruins this completely. I don't necessarily need a "happy" ending. I need an ending that makes sense. The ending is so confusing that people have had to create a complicated "Indoctrination Theory" to try to explain it. Then there is the true lack of choice or any choice related to what we had done and accomplished in the game. And the almost insulting "We created synthetics to kill organics every 50,000 years to prevent organics from being killed by synthetics," explanation must be a joke. Especially since the Geth never wanted to hurt the Quarians (except the heretics) and you the character united the two which shows that synthetics can be benevolent. Not to mention EDI.

I see two ways to go forward:

First, Bioware admits they massively screwed up and killed the game with that horrible ending and just create a new ending completely. Having the mass relays blow up is going to screw up the galaxy almost as bad as having the Reapers finish their job. Give us the 16 different endings. Sure, some may be very bad, but at least we should be able to save the galaxy, Earth and the Mass relays.

Secondly, if the whole Indoctrination Theory is actually real, then Bioware is pure genius and all remaining DLC can move on from the results of the attempt to indoctrinate Shep. Thus we can at last have the true endings we were promised. And Bioware can be lauded as the greatest game development company ever. With Indoctrination Theory, the ending is not really an ending, but only the first phase of the real ending. A first great test, if you will.

Modifié par Uber Rod, 23 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[Killer Irish]

[quote]RaenImrahl wrote...
UPDATE 3/18/12:

Everyone,

Thank you once again to all who have contributed their ideas, big or small, ending-related or not, to this discussion. I am impressed by the civility most have shown in this particular thread. Thank you!

A few notes going forward:

The developers are looking for what *you* think. Emphasis on *you*. If you see a piece of video, a pie chart, or a flow chart online that helps articulate your point, then by all means reference it. But the best way to make your argument is not with a link... it's with a statement. Explain *why* you think that video/text/chart/poll has validity. Use it as supporting evidence, sure, but *you* should make *your* case.

Let me put it another way... this isn't about showing the developers that there is a multiplicity of dissatisfied voices... it's about coming up with the widest and deepest swath of ideas.

Also, if you want to quote a passage from someone's post, it would be helpful if you only quote the section needed to support your case. As I've said before, this thread is naturally going to include some walls of text... but there's no need to replicate entire walls of text to make your point, necessarily.

Another option is to use the "link" function on a post you like to refer back to it.

Thanks again,

RI
[/quote][/quote]

Aside from yes, the ending not feeling complete, etc etc.  There were two points that caused me to be both confused and disappointed.  These two points deal in the relationship category, especially on two relationships I think Bioware has put a lot of care into (something I have been impressed with).

Companion:  Liara
Location:       London
Near the end of the game while you are in London, you have a chance to go around saying "good-bye" to everyone in camp.  Now for someone who romanced Liara in the first game, stayed true to her in the second game, and kept the relationship going in the third game; I had a lot of high expectations.  Namely when you go to Liara at the London camp and she says that she can share all her memories with you.  Her eyes go black, you two lean in close, things fade away, and then...nothing.  To be honest, I felt like I was about to be blown away in that moment.  That you were going to actually call back through my game saves to all the moments Liara and I shared from the previous games to the present.  Then throw in some moments of her imagining what it would be like if we had those "blue babies" she talked about.  But it went by so quick and there was nothing shown.  In a way I think this contributed to me feeling "cheated" even more-so on the ending because I was thinking, "okay, alright, I guess they'll show me that stuff at the end of the game then."  Because I loved all the other stuff you put into the game earlier.  Liara and Shep would share these loving cute couple moments that made it feel more like a relationship and less like an end-game-hook-up.  Heck, I wish there was more of that at the Citadel.  So in the end when it comes to Liara, it would be amazing to have a fleshed out end game moment with her.  The perfect thing is that the content is already there with Liara saying she wants to share this moment with you.  So please, do what you do best and let that moment really play out.


Companion:  Tali
Location:        Rannoch, End Cinematics
So this comes down to giving the same care to Tali as you did with Liara.  Now granted, you get to spend more time with Liara in the beginning.  But Tali is one of the reasons I have a second character in the first place that I have brought from the first game as well.  My main gripe; not seeing Tali's face.  Now before you dismiss me, please, take a moment to read as to why I think my complaint holds weight.  The entire series is based on you making us feel like we're Commander Shepard.  We chose what happens, what is said, what is done, how we look, we see and hear everything Shepard sees and hears, etc. In the end this entire game is made for us to be Commander Shepard.  If you think about it the only moment in the entire series where we aren't Commander Shepard is whenever Tali removes her mask.  I say this because this is the only thing in the entire series where Shepard is privy to something that the player isn't aloud to see (hence the disconnect).  I remember in the 2nd game it actually took me out of the moment because cinematically it just didn't make any sense.  Development wise I understand it makes a lot of sense; why create an asset that's only going to be seen once and not by all (after all the photoshoped picture on Shepard's desk was clear that showing Tali's face was more of an afterthought).  So when Tali removed her mask on Rannoch, once again, I thought, "this makes sense why they waited, they wanted us to see her face at a crucial moment."  I have to admit, this also compounded the ending for me.  Because I was also guessing that you would end up showing Tali and I building a home together, seeing her face on her homeworld, showing me what their life is going to look like as I say good-bye to a couple of characters I grew attached to for 5 years.  Not seeing any of this also made me feel like all the choices I made with Tali didn't matter.  Because if there was no way to see her face, to help her build a life on her planet, then what's the point?

On a personal note to the developers:
I want to give you the highest praise I could give anybody in the business; as a developer myself, I'm a fan of your game.  Why is this a big deal? (especially when you already have so many fans?)  Because for as long as I've been gaming for, good God, 30+ years?  I haven't been a fan of not a single game.  I'ved loved/liked a lot of games to be sure.  But Bioware and the Mass Effect series made me a fan.  Heck, you helped set me on the path I am now to become a Cinematic Artist.  So, whatever changes you make, whatever you improve upon, I just wanted to say you made a fan out of me and thank you for all your hard work these last 10 years.   Keep on kicking ass! 

Modifié par Killer Irish, 23 mars 2012 - 12:54 .

[Frenzy 11]

What I'd like to see is closure for the characters, like in Mass Effect 1 and its predecessor. For example, a mission for Garrus where you invade Palaven itself to rescue his family, much like Liara with Thessia and Tali with her home planet. Each character needs that sense of closure instead of just waiting after every mission to talk to them.

[MustacheManatee]

The most constructive criticism I can give is that the player deserves more of a say in how the primary consequences play out. No matter what your choices were in any of the three games, the same thing happens. Shepard dies, the mass relays are destroyed, and the Normandy crashes. These are MAJOR consequences, and the only variation is having a full EMS and choosing destroy. Then you get a shot of Shepard taking a breath.
I can live with the artistic statement of the "star child", and everything else, as long as I have some sort of say in how things play out.
Not worried about the content(poor as it may be), just worried about the execution and lack of choice.
I still love Mass Effect, and Bioware!

[PTO214]

Remove the pop-up insult at the end of the game telling use to continue Command Shepard's adventures through downloadable content.

You really have the balls to tell us that more downloadable content is on the way when you couldn't even go by your word and offer a complete ending that will be radically different based on the choices we've made...brilliant. Way to completely not understand your fan-base that has paved the way for your success.

Modifié par PTO214, 23 mars 2012 - 01:10 .

[GeneralBacon339]

Shepards mother!

if you choose spacer:

ME1 you can talk to her for the origin quest with mr. zabelata

ME2 you get an Email from her expressing her Disamusement about learning your alive through a 3rd party source

ME3 Admiral Hackett makes a fleeting comment near the end of the game..... and thats it, "ya she's alive, She's an admiral now"  end of story....

seriously?  if you choose spacer she should make an appearance in the new ending sequence (i still want a happy one where shepard lives, again can be optional based on your choices)

She could also be in DLC content, could change her name around if you didn't choose spacer, where you get to work with her (she is Admiral of her own flotilla, and stays within the fleet to provide C&C for said operation)

[Chrome Hamster]

*** WARNING:  THE FOLLOWING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS ***

In my opinion, the best way for BioWare to possibly incorporate a better ending relies on “Indoctrination Theory.”  Whether or not this was any idea of theirs, it is a good one and should be pursued, should they actually take up the task of expanding and improving the endings:

http://social.biowar...5/index/9727423

http://www.gamefront...ination-theory/

http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/

Given that, here is my idea for an alternate (And I think pretty good) ending that fits into the story thus far.  BioWare asked us our opinions, so here is mine (As you can see they go beyond just rainbows and magic unicorns):

The game proceeds as-is until just after the choice between Control, Synthesis and Destruction.  The first part of the existing cinematic for each choice would play (Shepard being dissolved, jumping into the light or shooting the piece of equipment until it explodes), but stops short of the enigmatic scene of the Normandy flying through the relay chased a colored death ray.

Up to this point, Shepard has been fighting the final, advanced stages of Indoctrination that most likely began when he was exposed to the Reaper Artifact during ME2 DLC “The Arrival” (Which is canon for ME3). Everything that has happened from the time he was knocked out by proximity to Harbringer’s beam has been an illusion.  It has all come to a head at this point because Shepard’s fatigue and injuries have lowered his resistance just as the Reapers are bending all their will to turn him, feeling the pressure of the combined organic fleet’s assault.

If Control or Synthesis was selected:

Shepard succumbs to reaper control and his story is over.  Maybe he just rolls over and dies.  Maybe he becomes a mindless husk to be shot down by some Krogan.  But that need not be the end for all organic life. There could still be many possible outcomes for the overall game story (Told through appropriate epilogue video) depending on the player’s Total Military Strength (TMS) and Galactic Readiness (GR). Some ideas:

1. Earth is destroyed and the organic fleets are lost.  This is a total loss and no hope remains for the galaxy.

2. Earth is destroyed and the organic fleet is abandoned to destruction while the combined organic fleets withdraw their remaining forces through the Charon relay to make a hopeless final stand some other day.

3. Earth is destroyed while the combined fleet fights to the end against the advancing Reaper threat.  The Reaper invasion is dealt a massive blow and slowed, but without the Crucible the organic losses were catastrophic.  The ultimate fate of the galaxy is still in question.

4.Taking a lesson from Shepard himself in The Arrival, the remnants of the organic fleet flee through the Charon relay while volunteers, probably lead by Admiral Hackett himself, use some of the remaining dreadnaughts—or possibly the now useless Crucible--in a Kamikaze attack on the Charon relay itself, using the resulting explosion as a doomsday weapon to wipe out the entire Sol system while it is still occupied by the bulk of the Reaper forces.  Earth is gone, organic losses were horrific, but there is still hope that the remaining fleet can prevail against the vastly reduced number of Reapers not present in Sol for the final battle and preserve enough of the galactic civilizations (Including some Human colonies as well) for life to continue elsewhere.

5. If any hope remains, there is some memorial for Shepard, whose actions in ME1-3 up to that point, made it possible.

If Destruction is selected:

Paragon or Renegade, destruction of the Reapers has been Shepard’s goal for the last three games. It is only fitting that he continues the fight by virtue of never having given up on this core belief.  Shepard wakes up in London in a pile of rubble.  He is wounded, but not so badly hurt as in his vision.  His mind has now thrown off the yoke of Reaper control and he is free to face the final battle as himself.   His visions of the mystery boy are gone for good.  Fortunately, his teammates are nearby and maybe (Possibly based upon TMS and GR) still alive.  Most of the Hammer force was not so lucky…  Before him the transport beam to The Citadel is still active.  Before Harbringer can become an issue, he is drawn off—probably by Normandy or some other attacking ships.  Perhaps he thinks the Shepard threat is ended and does not realize the Indoctrination has been purged.

So Shepard and his group run to the beam.  Reminiscent of ME1, they arrive on the Citadel and find themselves in the middle of a survival horror situation as they have to claw their way through the Reaper forces occupying The Citadel.  They need to get to the top of the Council tower and find some way to open the Citadel’s arms to deploy The Crucible.  (This should all look different than is Shepard’s Indoctrination fantasy).  This could easily be a whole level.

As a final obstacle, Shepard must face The Illusive Man, protected by the last of his best Cerberus operatives.  Now fully Indoctrinated, the Reapers have left him to protect the controls against anyone who happens to get in there.  Maybe they possess a sense of dramatic irony…  Who knows? Either way this should be an intensive encounter, possibly with mixed waves of both Cerberus and Reaper forces.

After Shepard disposes of them (Maybe there is even another dialog inserted here with The Illusive Man or not), he opens the arms and The Crucible is deployed.  Hackett, or maybe Anderson if he is alive, finally contacts Shepard and tells him he needs to find a way to activate the Crucible. They cannot remotely fire it.

Then The Illusive Man (Who was probably dead by this point) stands up and speaks to Shepard, except that his eyes are glowing yellow and he speaks with Harbringer’s voice.  He has some final words for Shepard:

“Human you have come far, but you stand on the precipice not only of your own destruction, but on the destruction of all.  You are playing on a far larger board than your minds can encompass:  The Reapers are not your destruction; they are your salvation--Just as you are ours.

Like the Mass Relays and The Citadel, The Crucible is not the work of organics, it belongs to us.  As Sovereign told you, we allowed your species to develop along those lines we chose.  It is indeed a weapon, but not against us as you believed, but rather against the threat The Reapers were created countless cycles ago to fight:  Against a foe of Dark Energy and total destruction so absolute that afterward no new cycles will come, and no new races will ever develop.  That threat grows very near.

Each of us is a nation apart, a distillation and perfection of what we were before our harvesting: Transcendent and perfect.  Yet the completion of The Crucible has eluded us. We have lacked The Catalyst to make it function.  So each new cycle advanced civilizations develop and flourish and then we help them to ascend, adding their power and their uniqueness to our own. Hoping that one day, before all is lost, that we can complete The Crucible and end the destruction that awaits us all, freeing us all from the cycles forever.  Only then will our countless sacrifices cease to be necessary.

When your people forestalled this cycle and defeated Sovereign, we took notice.  We sent The Collectors to further assess your potential.  When you destroyed The Collectors, we understood. Humanity is more genetically varied, more unique, more creative…  With a drive and spirit that burns brighter than the heart of a sun.  You have faced despair and overwhelming odds, and yet you do not yield.  You have struggled against the domination of your will through Indoctrination and yet your mind is your own.  Through your efforts you have finished and activated The Crucible, and thus proven yourselves to be The Catalyst.”

The he offers Shepard a choice:

1. Leave every human on Earth, the Citadel and in the combined fleet to the Reapers (Including Shepard) and the remaining races will be allowed to withdraw, free from harm. Even small human enclaves still existing across the galaxy will be spared.  All Reapers will abandon their harvesting of other species and retreat to Sol, where they will create another human Reaper.  The Reapers along with the new human Reaper(s) will use the catalyst to defeat the Dark Energy Nemsis and end the cycles of harvesting forever. They will then withdraw never to be seen again.

2. Reject The Reaper “solution” and continue to fight, hoping both to defeat The Reapers and the Dark Energy Nemesis to come.  The harvesting of Earth will continue because The Reapers need Humans, but the rest of the galaxy faces destruction with them.

If #1 is chosen, that can be a possible ending with appropriate epilogue.  Eventually, for most of the races life will mostly go back to normal, although mankind will remain a pathetic, if honored, shadow of its former role in the galaxy.  Specifics such as the fate of Anderson, the fleet and various companions, can be determined by a combination of Paragon/Renegade score along with TMS and GR. There should be a wide range of “collateral” outcomes.

If #2 is chosen, Shepard can elect to turn The Crucible on The Reapers.  Before being permitted to do so, he may have to fight his way past Illusive Man/Harbringer like he did Saren/Sovreign in ME1.  This in combination with an exceptionally high TMS/GR could unlock the “happy ending.”  Some possible outcomes to #2 endings:

1. Shepard uses The Crucible to defeat The Reapers, Earth, The Citadel and the Mass Relay network are saved.  In epilogue, he is heralded as a great hero and reunited with his love interest (LI). They now turn toward defeating the new menace with at least The Crucible to work with.

2. Shepard uses The Crucible to defeat The Reapers, Earth is badly scarred but not rendered uninhabitable, his crew and LI survive to be reunited, the power unleashed by The Crucible has rendered The Crucible, The Citadel and the Mass Relay network inert and non-operable (But not exploded, which was a huge continuity problem in the original endings).  This is pretty bad news for most of the galaxy, but The Reapers are gone.  How they will defeat the looming menace is still up in the air.

3. Same as #1 except that Shepard must sacrifice either himself or one of his squad to repair The Crucible before it can be fired.

4. Same as # 2 except that Shepard must sacrifice either himself or one of his squad to repair The Crucible before it can be fired.

5. While holding off The Reaper forces, the fleets are so badly mauled that they cannot prevent a Reaper strike from killing Shepard and damaging The Crucible before it can be fired.  The war is a loss.

All of the various endings should have more epilogue and battle scenes, so you can better see how your choices and preparedness had an impact on the finale.  Also, we should not be left in the dark about what happened to our friends from both ME1 and ME2.  If there is a problem getting voice talent to add new dialog, maybe much of the epilogue could be handled like “Return of the Jedi” with scenes of people shaking hands and hugging, etc., with music instead of dialog.

Modifié par Chrome Hamster, 23 mars 2012 - 01:32 .

[GeneralBacon339]

idea for hope for players, during a DLC (if ending isn't released first) add the achievement to "Retake earth and survive" Be sure to hint to players to recheck their achievement lists

[Holoe4]

I think what we all want is a logical ending where our decisions are reflected in the outcome.

[KingG528]

Why can't Bioware just a make a few polls with different variables and whatever ones people vote the most for those get put into the new ending?

[KingG528]

GeneralBacon339 wrote...

idea for hope for players, during a DLC (if ending isn't released first) add the achievement to "Retake earth and survive" Be sure to hint to players to recheck their achievement lists

I like it.

[GeneralBacon339]

no horrible endings please, but another mass effect game with.... a lighter tone would be nice. with shepard as either the main character or the admiral hackett character.

[Ltjoboyle]

Looks like lots of people have ideas. For myself, I feel it is right for bioware to decide the ending of the story- I would hate to think that it was entirely changed from what it was intended to be by the fans. However it did feel that building a massive fleet actually didn't matter at all once you reached the ending. It would have been great to see more importance from the fleet. Perhaps following the style of the Mass Effect 2 ending, the different fleets could have been split into distinct bodies, which you then guide in the conflict with the Reapers. 'Several Reapers have set off for Earth to protect the beam to the Citadel', who do you send to intercept them? The Salarians due to the stealth systems? The Turians as they may well take heavy casualties but you found that new healing substance that would keep them in the fight? (Obviously I haven't figured out the subtleties, but hopefully you get the general gyst)

Then there could have been some necessary events, like the main Turian ship comes under attack and is essentially doomed. The highest members of the Turian military are on board, and if it is destroyed, it would lead to massive implications for their future role in the galaxy. However, if Wrex survived and liked you enough, he would honour Shephard's commitment to doing the right thing by sending Krogan forces to the Turians' aid. It would be a major 'HELL YEAH' moment as you see the Reapers closing in, about to strike the death blow, and then Krogan fire hits into them as the Krogan disprove suspicion against them and show the lengths they will go to to fit within the galactic community. Equally could apply with Geth saving Quarians, vice versa, Salarians saving Krogan etc. Or main human ships come under fire, but if you saved the Council on ME1 the favour is returned.

The issue that really did annoy me though, was how unimportant the Rachni were. I really didnt like having to save them again, felt a bit cheap considering in ME2 where the controlled asari said they would help you, and Rachni ships had been seen about. I really thought saving them in ME1 would have mattered. It would be great if that could be righted. Perhaps if you saved them in ME1 they had enough time to build up a force before the Queen was taken in ME3. If you save her, rather than sending you a few, entirely unnecessary scientists for the Crucible, their fleet actually turn up too and prove important.

Likewise, the fleet could perhaps impact on the ground on Earth. Make holding the missile bit way more hard, but you get assistance depending on your choices. So the Spectre team turn up on the ground and help out, as do the surviving team mates from ME2 (they seriously wouldn't help Shephard save THE GALAXY after all he did for them?), and Kirahe etc.

Essentially, incorporate elements of how the ME2 ending played out. Your efforts towards the war effort make identifiable and exciting impacts on how the ending goes, alongside there being immediate choices (commanding the fleets or people on the ground) which also have an impact.

It would then just be great to know the state of the galaxy afterwards. Otherwise, if all it boils down to is reaching a certain number for war readiness and that's it for how the game ends, it matters little whether I save the Geth or not, or if I saved the Rachni, or did... anything in the entire series.

I'm no game designer, I have no clue how hard it is to do any of the stuff I requested. However it seemed like you guys got the formula so right at the end of ME2, and then went off entirely with ME3. I guess I'm hoping for an ending that basically takes some of those elements on board.

[Carmen_Willow]

Jessica,

Don't know if you are still compiling but here are my suggested changes.

1. The Galaxy shouldn't have to "die" in order to live.
Destroying the mass effect relays throws the galaxy back into isolation and sets technology back hundreds of years. With the loss of that technology, many borderline species (Krogans) will fail. Given the level of destruction caused by the war, and vast number of aliens stranded away from their home worlds, you may as well let the Reapers win. Extinction will become a reality for almost as many species as would be lost if the Reapers won. Talk about a pyrrhic victory! What was the use? My time would have been better spent living it up with my LI during the latter days.

2. The God Child was unnecessary.
We don't have to know why the Reapers are evil terrible machines who hate organic life and want to destroy it all. We probably don't even need to know why they can only come back every 50,000 years (although it would be nice to know). We just need to defeat them so that sentinent, civilized life in the galaxy can continue. Show us how we win, not how it was all futile (I really felt like I was watching a war with the Borg without Picard to lead us to victory). Shepard may or may not surivive, but her sacrifice, if there is one, should not be for nothing.

3. Show us what happened after.
I want my medal award ceremony or my memorial service. I want to know who on my team survived and if they made it home. I would prefer to survive myself and go off into the sunset with my LI (I rather like Hollywood endings myself), but I can forgo that for and ending that truly ends the trilogy.

4. Don't make me have to take a Renegade action in order to "win" the no-win ending. I was playing a bonafide, dyed-in-the-wool Paragon/Paladin and you made my act of violence in defense of the life of another into a Renegade action. There are times when "Good" must do violence to protect the innocent or weak. (I Didn't like it when you labelled shooting Udina as a Renegard action either. He was about to kill someone as well. Again that is homicide in defense of another and I did not see it as a renegade action.)

I want to say that the ending would not have mattered so much if the rest of the tale had not been so incredibly excellent. I thought it was the finest game writing I had viewed to date--right up until the ending. I don't know what you all were thinking or if you were just tired. But the end was incongruous with the level of creativity your writing team had displayed in the rest of the game.

[JaylaClark]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Thanks again for everyone posting constructive feedback (positive and negative). Just wanted to let you know that we're reading and passing things along, even if we're lurking more than replying

Thanks Jess.

I'm just going to say one thing that I've observed over the past couple of days, not on the forums or Twitter, but other avenues. (Work, YIM friends, Second Life, et al.)

I've spoken with people who love the game. I've spoken with people who the ending ruined the game for them. I've spoken with people who won't let the ending ruin the game for them.

But I have yet to find someone who loves the ending. Everyone I've spoken to has found flaws in it. The Normandy Planet ranks first in problems, the Arrival Conundrum (where the destruction of a relay was established, IIRC by 'this is what happens when a relay goes', to have rather dynamic repercussions) comes close behind, and the logic behind Shepard's fate is the third one (her death in Blue doesn't seem like it should be warranted, if the Citadel goes up in Red where's the rubble she's clawing out of, that kind of thing).

Oddly enough, the mere fact of the destruction of the Relays is pretty easily handwaved by a lot of my friends without prompting -- they tend to think the key is to find Liara's second mother father with the assumption that she actually did do something along the lines of researching the relays. Thus the galaxy is back to normal in a century.

(And I only need to hear how the dextro people survive from your mouths because I have like three theories, I want to know which is right. :happy:)

But ... basically, if you'd have told us how there was a happily ever after, rather than just telling us that there was one; if you'd have chosen to honor Shepard's sacrifice in-universe rather than in the far off future; and if you'd given us a 'where are they now?', you'd have never had anywhere near this reaction. Plenty of us can accept a heroic sacrifice if it gives closure. But we need that closure otherwise we don't get satisfaction from playing. It's just that simple.

[Draemian]

I want:
Recognition of both space and ground war assets.  Not just "we're ready to go" for the quarians/geth but scenes of their contribution in space battle.  For the ground I want to see squadmates, rachni, krogan, elcor, mercenaries etc.

The possibility of Shepard surviving, reuniting with the suriviors of his team, LI etc.

Epilogue demonstrating the aftermath of the war for each race, content being determined by if they participated, side missions completed for them that might have helped them.

If the original 'endings' have to remain then among the new options that should be made in order for real choices with different consequences should be the choice to hold out and see if the massed allied fleet can take down the reapers.  How successfully to badly they do could be based on the readiness gauge.