7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Abreu Road]

Kargsure wrote...

Lochwood wrote...

I hate the endings too guys -- but the destruction of the relays absolutely doesn't have to coincide with them going supernova. Notice before they break up that they DISCHARGE all of the energy that's in them. They amplify the RGB space-koolaid magic, fire it along to the next point in the relay network and then implode fairly harmlessly.

That's as good an explanation as any, my main issue is that I shouldn't have to be speculating, and Shepard, based on her own experience, shouldn't just assume that this is the case.  If anything based on her experience during the events of the Arrival DLC she should be of the belief that destroying the relay in the sol system will wipe out  all life in the system (ergo both earth and the galactic armada she gathered there), along with all the other systems housing relays, why would she just willingly agree to any of the three options without at least bringing up this fact.

Exactly. 

For christ's sake, she was arrested for months as a result of her decision to destroy a relay and wipe out a system. How could she doesn't remember that when talking to Star Child?

[shnellegaming]

I finished ME3 the day after it came out and have had a lot of time to read, post and think about all the things being said.  What I have come up with now are basically two premises.

1)  Fix the ending that exists now in a patch.

When I say fix I mean plug the plot holes and give us exposition.  Make sure we know that our Shepard giving their life meant something and counted for something.  We want to know that we saved the people we were fighting for.  We want to know our squadmates, people on Earth, people on the Citadel, the Fleet in Orbit of Earth, the people and races around the galaxy.  We want to know that what we did helped them.  We want hope and closure.  We would also like to know that blowing up the Mass Relays doesn't kill everyone.  And that the Citadel blowing and crashing down on the Earth doesn't fry the planet.

Plot holes that need plugging:

Why couldnt the catalyst open the Citadel mass Relay in ME1 since it 'lives' in the station?

When the Reapers captured the Citadel why could we still use the Mass Relays to get to Earth?  It was stated in ME1 that the Citadel controls the Mass Relay network.  They could have just closed off the Relays and ending it all then.

Since the Reapers could capture the Citadel so easily why didn't they do that in the first place?

Why is Joker running from the fight?  How did he get all the way to the Mass Relay before you blow it up?

How did your crew get on the Normandy when they were on the ground and it was up in space?

How did your squadmates that got blasted by Harbringer with you get rezurrected?

How did Joker get sent to some distant planet?

How does anyone survive in a system with a Mass Relay since blowing one up destroys the system?  How does Earth survive a Mass Relay being blown up at the Sol system.  How in the world would Omega survive it has two Mass Relays in its system.

How in the world does Shep take a breathe if he/she is on a Blown up piece of the Citadel thats probably burning up in the Atmosphere.

Why is renegade the only one you can live on?

These things should be fixed.  They don't change the ending in any way.  The story is the same.  "Artistic Integrity" is satisfied but we finally get an ending with closure, hope and makes sense.



2)  People want a better ending that fits the themes of ME and actually has your choices make a difference.  So use the Indoc Theory and give that to them in DLC.  If people don't want it they don't have to buy it.

Make sure whatever happens fits Mass Effect Paragon and Renegade themes that have been set down in the three games.  Give people a choice if they REALLY get a high war assets then they can get their Shep to live and have babies and all that.  Personally I want to be able to have my Shep do a whole heroic death to save the galaxy.  But I want the choice.  And I want my heroic death to make sense and feel like it counts for something.


Basically my feelings are I hope and pray for indoc theory/choice/happy ending DLC but I'll settle for a patch that gives closure/plugs plot holes/gives hope.

Modifié par shnellegaming, 23 mars 2012 - 03:29 .

[zeebow14]

First off I would like to thank the mass effect team for an outstanding and unique series. I normally don't play this type of game but I got ME1 when it first came out as a gift and I was immediately sucked in and I've been hooked ever since. so Great job you guys and thank you!

I actually liked the  ending of ME3 (Shepard sacrificing himself along with the music nearly made me cry!). However, I felt something's were off. Like the Normandy running away and the relays blowing up , which would destroy their respective solar systems. so I felt the ending just had me asking way to many  questions.

After reading about the indoctrination theory I thought to myself "YES NOW THIS COULD WORK!" So here are my suggestions about how to address the ending without hardcore changing it.

1. Work with this indoctrination theory.

2. Show what happens after the reapers are destroyed. how are my squad mates, how did my choices throughout the series play out? What's my Love interest up to?

3. I would like an ending (or endings) where Shepard lives and one (or more) where he sacrifices himself. If He lives it would be cool to see rejoicing. if he has to sacrifice himself, I would like to see the reactions of my squad and how the galaxy honors him as a hero and legend who saved the whole galaxy.

4. I would like Shepard to confront Harbinger and pwn him!

There are a lot of good suggestions that I have seen and I would like to thank you guys for listening to our feedback. It's good to know that there are companies that still do care about their customers/ fans.

Modifié par zeebow14, 23 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[Amschel]

There are a lot of good responses in this thread. It makes me wonder where a lot of these gaming sites are getting their information. It seems that whenever i read one that discusses this ending issue, they seem to mostly think that we are only unhappy because we did not get a happy rainbow filled ending. While sure a lot of us would probably feel pretty good about a happy ending, I mean who doesn't feel satisfied with a happy ending, but I think they completely miss the point that the ending just felt rushed, it did not meet with what was promised to us by bioware, it is incoherent with glaring plot holes and It was just down right frustrating to watch.

I really doubt they will retcon the whole ending, and at this point I don't really think they should. But there is definitely room for addition and some changes. It is always better to compromise instead of only one side getting what they want. with that in mind I want to bring up SamFlagg's suggestion again and show my support for it once more. I feel that it is a great solution that i think both sides of this issue can get behind.

Here is SamFlagg's idea:

SamFlagg wrote...

Bioware,

With the remarks today that you are attempting to try and fine tune the discrepancy between your fans and the existing artistic vision, allow me to post my most concrete suggestion for doing that.

The ending I'm suggesting perserves the attempt that was made at giving us choices by actually making them choices that are different.

One of our primary concerns was always that the choices presented to us felt as if they had no practical difference behind them.

------------------------------------------------------------

I realize that option this does not solve the problems of Anderson getting to the citadel first, or having to pick a renegade option to kill the illusive man, but if the ending itself gets fixed, this becomes a minor point to quibble over. Maybe have Anderson voice that he hadn't heard from you in half an hour.

-----------------------------------------------------------

What needs to change is the conversation upstairs. I do not think the fact that there is a Diablos Ex Machina needs to change, but the dialogue needs to be updated in such a way as to repair the amount of nonsense we are being fed and make it at least nonsense internally consistant with the ME universe. Heck even throw in a line suggesting that the Reapers feed on Dark Energy (It's a subtle nod to the previous plot thread)

Now the options he gives you should change slightly, they are still Destroy, Control, Synthesis, but the outcomes need to all be stated seperately and made different from each other. The problem with the endings now is they all boil down to Shepard DiesRelays Die. (Half second breathing video isn't closure, it's non commital)

Also as a preface, if your War Assets Score is too low, you still get the existing earth burns video.

-----------------------------------------------------------

My suggestion of what to do with the existing options:

1.) Destroy
- Destroys the reapers, the geth, and the mass relays. Shepard lives explicitly (HOWEVER, the God Child needs to tell Shepard that it will kill him as well)
And by Shepard lives, I mean you actually see Shepard get up, you have your cut scene with your remaining alive squad mates in a way similar to the end of ME1. No dialogue necessary, just an acknowledgement that Shepard is Alive and some of the squad is as well. (I would suggest variations on the cut scene to account for all possible persons that could be alive, the cut scenes would all be superficially the same with camera pans and scans, but you could actually see people based on whether or not they were alive.)

2.) Synthesis - Does pretty much the same thing, fuses all life together with space magic, leaves the citadel and the mass relays intact. Shepard dies.
Leaving the relays in tact is key here. This now gives an option where you can choose to sacrifice Shepard and maintain the current galactic travel situation. Having this ending kill Shepard as it does now is necessary to give it some narrative balance.
(Cut the Joker nonsense from the existing cutscene and don't blow up the relays, and give some sort of epilouge cut scene for all the other characters)

3.) Control
- Allows Shepard to make a Faustian Bargin with the Reapers. Earth is saved. The mass relays and the citadel stay. In exchange the reapers get to reap all the other aliens of this cycle, and will then go back to dark space afterwards. Shepard dies. (Exception - If you have max renegade points Shepard lives)
While most people aren't death incarnate, there were always the ones who were really disappointed that you couldn't spend the game working for the Illusive Man. Not only that, if you don't have enough War Assets your only options become Control or Destroy.........Destroy the mass relays and save everyone, or Control the reapers and get the mass relays for Earth and Earth alone?
(Change the cut scene and have the reapers go a reaping, if Shepard managed to live have him sitting in the catalysts room in the Illusive Man's chair watching a dying star or somesuch. Hell throw in your LI if they're human)


---------------------
OFFER OPTION 4
---------------------

Option 4 as I describe it, is the "Go to Hell Reaper Kid" option. It should've been there, we all wanted it.

It can either be implemented as an option before the child stops talking to you, or (even better) make it an option that only shows up if you turn back to him and start up talking to him again.

Then allow this new conversation to proceed allowing Shepard to argue back and forth with the God Child, as you argue you slowly hear the child's voice morphing into Harbingers. (At some point I want it to be made clear that the options Harbinger offered you were actually 100% true, though he did attempt to lead you to control or synthesis, and is only compelled to offer destroy because it presumed the cost was too high for you to select)

Harbinger says "You can not leave Shepard. Now you will die"
Shepard says "No, we will die."

--------------------------------

At this point there should be either

1.) Option 4 - a button that makes the crucible do the equivalent of the Star Trek 2 prefix code and take down the shields/barriers of every reaper in the galaxy forever and ever amen. Then they're easily defeated conventionally

or

2) Shepard calls Admiral Hackett to focus all fire on the Citadel. (Indicating that the Citadel is in fact the command and control structure of the reapers and its destruction basically has the same effect as option 1)

In either case the results should be: Reapers Die / Galaxy Lives / Citadel Destroyed / Mass Relays Lives / Shepard Dies*

(With enough EMS Shepard Lives)

After that it cuts to either a funeral for Anderson with eulogy given by Shepard or a funeral for Shepard given by Hackett. And it can have all the squad members still alive in the background (and some Elcor living tanks!) Again, preference being on a cut scene that the crowd has ME2 and ME3 characters in it that are still alive, and if they're dead swap them out for generics. (Yes it's a lot of conditional cutscening but for the RGB ending they gave us I think its probably not an unfair thing to ask)

What all of this does do however is allow them to change the ending and give us more or less the epilogue for all of the options stated, and it also means there is no additional gameplay. I'm ok with that, because I think it would be fair easier to implement than asking them to change the ending, add all this epilogue stuff, and add new gameplay, and figure out some way to boss battle harbinger!

The scope of the change would be - rewrite parts of the entire catalyst scene
- epilogue and new cut scenes
- option 4 for the Commander Shepard who wouldn't put up with this BS.
- Elcor Living tanks. (Er I mean, only Shepard, Hackett, GodChild, and Harbinger would have to have new dialogue, but I wouldn't mind if others did as well)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

TL/DR

Rewrite the GodChild to Make Sense
Give Shepard 4 options to Solve this dilema
1) Destroy - Shepard Lives, Reapers Die, Citadel Dies, Relays Die, Geth Die
2) Synthesis - Shepard Dies, Reapers....do whatever the hell they do in the Synthesis Ending, Citadel Stays, Relays Stay, Everybody gets synthesied. (Maybe David Archer goes insane)
3) Control - Shepard Dies*, Citadel Stay, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Gonna Get Reaped
4) Sacrifice - Shepard Dies**, Citadel Dies, Relays Stay, Earth Lives, Rest of Galaxy Lives
*with high enough renegade points he lives
**with high enough EMS he lives

Add cut scenes and epilogue to make our choices feel different and to give us the wrapup that we were hoping for.

--------------------
Artistic Vision
----------------------
1.) There become 6 possible endings. (Control and Sacrifice have Shepard Dies Shepard Lives alternates)
2.) The endings diverge in a meaningful way.
3.) In three endings shepard dies, in one ending shepard lives and loses all the relays, in one ending Shepard lives and reaps the galaxy. 5 out of the 6 endings are bittersweet.
4.) The remaining ending sacrifice rewards players for extremely high EMS, and gives the portion of the players who would like a happy ending, that happy ending.

For the most part this allows the original vision to stay fairly in tact, while changing many of the elements people have objected too, and keeping Shepard consistant as a character who always had the option to rebel if he thought the answers he was being given were nonsense.

The synthesis ending stays largely the same while leaving the relays intact, and the destruct ending stays largely the same execpt the Shepard has to expressly live. (And deal with the inferred holocaust)

I think it would be interesting how many people would choose Shepard over the Relays.

[Notsags]

JDMiller5150 wrote...

I feel like creating a "NEW" ending would be almost insulting. As if to say to the fans, "Oh! We're sorry! Let us try again. Sorry for that little hiccup in the game."

Instead, BIOWARE should take this ending, and really take us down the rabbit hole with it. Thats why I really REALLY like the whole, "indoctrination theory". The ending as it stands now would play so smoothly into that storyline.

I think that BIOWARE seems pretty set in their ways tho. The easy thing for them to do would be to say, "Screw off. Here's the DLC's. The ending remains as is."

I tell you what, if that were the case, I would have a hard time purchasing ANYTHING from BIOWARE after that.





So, BIOWARE, if you're in here, please try to level with all of us. We were expecting something sooooo much better than this ending, because we know you are capable of it. Thats all it is.

I agree with you, just replacing the ending might feel weird for the people who already know the endings, but still i wouldn't mind too much if those just got replaced.

Back to the topic of this thread, IMO Mass Effect 3 was one of the best games i ever played (yeah i know there were a few bugs, and that the missions menu was a bit unhelpful, but it didn't damage the game experience), until that elevator took Shepard to the Starchild, reapers PR, god, whatever. The possible endings turned out to be quite similar, and i didn't feel any decisions from all three games mattered, Paragon, Renegade, bit of both... you just die... i expected different endings, like happy ending with LI or beach with Garrus, success defeating the reapers with squadmates dying in the process, total defeat, or even endings where you realize you were screwed since before ME3 because of bad decisions from ME1 and ME2.
I just hope that these endings don't stay as the only ones possible, i feel that they killed the replay value for the whole franchise, at least for me.

[doqtyr]

Dear BioWare,
Thank you once again for an unbelieveably top notch, game of the year grabbing, emotionally charged, AAA style, making me stay up way to late just because I could not stop thinking about what happens next experience. I know you work hard and it may seem like nobody cares or appreciates how much of your heart is poured into Mass Effect. I just want you to know thats not true. We are upset only because we have experienced over one hundred hours of one of the greatest stories ever told and for whatever reason the last few moments, the most memorable point of the story felt different. As if you gave up and decided you were done. Happy, Sad, funny, sweet, it doesn't matter. What matters is only you put as much effort and love into the end as you did the rest of this phenominal tale. Think about it, when we first met the Asari commando in the hospital and she asks for a gun we laugh, by the time we finish hearing her heart wrenching story we consider allowing her a gun just to help her end her misery. You did that, you closed Conrads tale like a champ. You made us cry when the old woman is asking about her son, and a hundred other moments. How on earth can our story end with anything less. If this is all part of the plan and we are simply indoctrinated and you intend for us to be confused than BRAVO. Please dont tack a happily ever after on the end just because it seems thats what we want, its not, we would prefer no changes are made at all in that case. We love your work and care about the characters you created, thats why we speak up. If we didn't care you would be that last to know.

Thank you from a loyal fan of all your work, I will continue to buy your titles even if every ending leaves me confused and deflated, I still appreciate the journy.

with all sincerity,

Stephen

[dragonator89]

Bioware, if you really are listening and truly care about your fans and the future of the company, please listen to everything this guy has to say. He pretty much sums up fans discontent for the ending, Everything he says is constructive.

[Raynulf]

www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/21/did-the-real-mass-effect-3-ending-go-over-everyones-heads/

www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/21/bioware-co-founder-apologizes-to-fans-for-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sort-of/

Both of the above are well written and worth a read.


As to the indoctrination theory; It's compelling and even if it wasn't the original artistic intent, it's the most elegant means of actually concluding the ME saga that's currently posited.

If it (or something similar) was the original intent, then while a brilliant story-telling move, it has been very badly mishandled:

A) If the endings shipped with the game were deliberately designed to feel 'wrong' and inconsistent and get the players to speculate about whether they were the real ending - to go through the same thought process as Shepard, until the Indoctrination DLC was ready... they were complete and utter overkill. Too inconsistent, too hollow, too inconclusive.

 If the endings were intended to be as unpalatable as they are, it could still have worked, if at the end of the credits rather than a crass message pop up about DLC, the game (if you got the right option) picked up and continued.

I suspect it's the former, and the developers were simply too rushed to handle the endings with the finesse they required - it would explain why Bioware is surprised at the backlash. That said: Although I may not be thrilled by how it panned out, if an Indoctrination DLC was released, offering an actual conclusion... yes. I would buy it.


An Actual Conclusion
I have previously voiced my thoughts on resolving the issues with the game here: www.youtube.com/watch (my appologies for substandard audio), and they more-or-less work (in my opinion) with the Indoctrination Theory.

1) The Citadel Plothole
Although the scene at the end of Cerberus Base was rather jarring, it can be recovered quite easily post-indoctrination madness scene: After awakening in the streets of London (with his squadmates) and using the Conduit to reach the Citadel, Shepard finds out what's going on:

a) The Citadel ended up at earth due to sleeper agents indoctrinated by Sovereign's remains secretly reconfiguring and activating the mass relay within it.
C-Sec and prominent Citadel NPCs have been in control of the Citadel the whole time, and closed the arms to keep the reapers out (hence why everyone can still use the mass relays).
c) The reapers built and are using the Conduit to send their ground troops to invade the Citadel and take control of it (hence why it exists), and C-Sec are fighting them.

Thus: Your actions as Shepard matter with regards to the people on the Citadel, and the plot hole of "why don't the reapers use the citadel like they always have?" is neatly stitched up.

2) Exposition
There needs to be exposition on at least three things (My thoughts in italics)
a) Why are humans so important to the reapers? (A: Harvests are becoming steadily less successful, and mankind is a veritable jackpot for reaper-producing-material).
 Does the MacGuffin (crucible) actually work? (A: Yes, but it's actually a reaper fail-safe device, designed to eliminate the civilisation that builds it).
c) Who was messing with Shepard's head? (A: Harbinger)
 
Does there need to be some form of great 'reveal' on Reaper motivations? Not really. ME1 and ME2 have crafted them into beautiful lovecraftian horrors already. The 'catalyst' explanation only cheapened their entire involvement in the series.

3) Gameplay
Again, largely I'll stick to my earlier thoughts on the progress of the conclusion to the game.

A battle-to-survive with Harbinger at the Conduit would allow for exposition as well as a very climactic bit of combat.

Fighting through the reaper troops on the Citadel to reach C-Sec would showcase player involvement in the citadel and the NPCs (e.g. How did shepard interact with Aethyna... Liara's dad? Did the player miss that entirely? What about Kelly? etc).
 
Have Cerberus commandos (having smuggled the Illusive Man onto the citadel prior to its transit to earth) have taken the command center while C-Sec was holding the line against the reapers - allowing Shepard to fight his way to the confrontation with the Illusive Man (which I agree, should not be combat).

4) Divergence
The sheer number of ways the player choices could effect the end of the game is staggering, however for practical reasons there will always need to be some constraints.

Some thoughts here:
A) Reapers are powerful but not indestructible - give the option to simply "go it hard" and fight them with the combined might of the galaxy.
 Did you save the Collector Base? If so, TIM has modified the Crucible to hijack control of the Reapers - allowing options to either 'possess' the reapers as Shepard or use it to disable them (allowing the fleet to mop up)
C) Did you destroy the Collector Base? If so, the reapers' control over Cerberus and TIM is far weaker, allowing the option for getting Cerberus forces in the fight against the reapers.
D) Paragon and renegade options may lead to 'similar' results, just using wildly different methods (e.g. talking TIM into seeing the error of his ways vs simply gunning him down).

5) Bittersweet and Heroic vs Tragic
To date, Shepard has always been a heroic character, achieving what no one else could. It's been the theme of the entire Mass Effect series.

Would it be fitting to end Mass Effect with a big party on the beach with sunshine and roses? No. No more fitting that the entirity of Shepard's closest friends running off and getting off a crashed Normandy on a remote planet, smiling.

Should Shepard be able to die? Yes, if the circumstances are right. Does Shepard need to die for there to be heartache? No. There is already plenty of that with just Anderson (who now even has a lady 'waiting for him', just to make it even more poignant).

A mandatory "Shepard Will Die" ending is that of a tragic hero - Mordin was one. Shepard isn't. Going for the 'best' outcome of each story path is something that keeps people replaying the game, and in doing so maintains interest in additional content produced (DLC).


At any rate, that's my wall of text (and yet still as concise as I could make it. Sheesh.)

[Nowhereman19]

I felt like little was accomplished in the end. Aside from stopping the reapers not much is explained with what happens after. The way I see the end, everyone is worse off than if the reapers finished the job. The end as it stands should be Harbingers last attempts at indoctrinating shepard. Your choices Destroy, synthesis or control should affect shepards level of indoctrination and affect the end game (Destroy, he broke free, synthesis, not so much, control, not at all). He should wake up in the rubble in London after all of that plays out and then make a final push to the citadel. The finer details are all up to bioware team. And hopefully when all is said and done I'll be able to pick up mass effect and put another 150 hours into a full playthrough of the series. 
      Since Knights of the old republic I have been hooked on bioware. You guys are the best. You set the standards for every game I play. Just thought you should know.

Modifié par Nowhereman19, 23 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[Eullogy]

 Bioware Friendly Ending for Mass Effect 3:

Simply leaving out the scene of the Normandy flying through
a relay, crashing, and people coming out, would fix a lot. The scene after the
credits could be moved to just after the end scene instead of after the credits.
That format of having a "P.S." is reserved for games and movies that
are going to have a sequel, and this most definitely will not have one.

And that is pretty much it.

Well, not really. You could even leave out the conversation
with the Catalyst and the player would then have to figure out what thing to
grab or destroy.  Or turn the Catalyst
yellow-orange, and have the conversation actually be with Harbinger, where it's
revealed that the Catalyst is actually the person sacrificed to activate the
Crucible. Answering the riddle of the who and the why of the Reapers is not
entirely necessary. All the player needs to know is that this can stop the
Reapers, and the Reapers know it.

Perhaps then Harbinger could reveal that those sacrificed to
create a Reaper are not actually dead. Perhaps they are alive in a virtual
space, and they all plead with Shepard to not annihilate them. Either way it
goes, there is no need to redo entire cut-scenes.

Now I will tell you how to make an outstanding ending, it
would require massive amounts of work. 

LONDON:

Shepard and crew leave for the conduit, leading the assault
in a Hammerhead IFV. In this segment the player can race straight ahead to the
next segment but will go unsupported. They can also zip around the battlefield
giving aid to various advancing squads, which will determine how many make it
through the conduit to help Shepard on the Citadel.  

Reaching the next segment, the Hammerhead takes damage and
is forced down. If the player did not save more than half the assault force on
the previous section, he continues on foot as the current game. If he does save
them, they continue forward in a Mako with miniaturized Thanix cannon. Fighting
harvesters and the like until reaching the next segment.

The Mako takes a hit and is disabled, they continue on foot
and complete the defend the missile section. Everyone makes for the conduit.
The events play out as in the game as it stands, however Shepard is unconscious
for who knows how long and actually is the last one through the conduit.  

CITADEL:

Shepard and crew regroup, (including surviving troops, whom
will be split away to draw attention while Shepard's team makes for the council
tower) easy, normal, and hard difficulty Shepard uses medi-gel to stabilize
health and continue on with half-shields but full abilities. Insanity
difficulty setting: Shepard's health continuously drops leveling at just one
bar, at which point he cannot use any of his abilities save grenades.

The squad fights across the Presidium to the tower, enemy
concentration is heavy. 

Reaching the tower, (let's say for this section that
Shepard's suit is mostly intact and just damaged heavily, so that he can survive
in vacuum) they fight enemy squads up the tower. Here we reveal that the
Reapers are again constructing a Human-Reaper, this one nearly fully formed.
Which then becomes aware of their presence. The squad then has to fight enemies
while taking cover from the Reapers' fire.

They successfully reach the control to open the Citadel, and
have a confrontation with TIM. You could convince him with enough
paragon/renegade. Either way the squad fights him as Harbinger assumes direct
control (can you see I'm basically just recycling and combining things from the
first two games?) 

CRUCIBLE/CITADEL:

Reusing the area where you make the choice. This could be a
multi-part battle where the squad must survive/fight through waves of enemies.
Harbinger standing directly above, raining enemies down and taking pot shots.
The squad fights off waves waiting for the Normandy to make a pass firing its
Thanix to knock Harbinger off balance long enough for the squad to run past the
leg blocking their path.   

The options for this final confrontation are endless.. 

Maybe Harbinger and a Cerberus-made Human-Reaper controlled
by TIM duke it out while Shepard ascends the tower. and before reaching the
finale, Shepard is sucked into a virtual environment inside Harbinger: A place
where all the past extinct races live on in harmony and plead their case. After
denying them (or not), Shepard must fight his way free.

The point here is quite simple: The player is going to be
much happier with the ending because for the last ten minutes (or in this case,
thirty to sixty) of the game they are in control. The last parts of the game should
be game-play. More importantly Shepard needs to at least seem to be winning by
the end.

[kato42]

My suggestion: Everything from after Anderson and Shepard have their conversation beside the console after defeating TIM... everything after that is garbage, Get rid of all of it.

Write it out like it never was, make it a dream that Shepard had - he passed out beside Anderson - anything, just get rid of it all!

Please! For the love of Mass Effect, make it go away!

And yes, that includes Joker apparently turning coward and fleeing the battle for Earth, while somehow stopping to pick up crew members that just got blasted by a Reaper (how exactly DID Joker make that pick up with a Reaper right there anyway?)

All of it, BAD!

Bad writing! Bad writer! No cookie for you!


Its okay, its okay.  Sh!  Sh!
I'm sorry, I shouldn't have yelled.  We'll just blame too many late night energy drinks for what you wrote, you weren't feeling well.  Its okay, it happens to everyone.  Now, drink some water, and we'll try again.

Modifié par kato42, 23 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[FellishBeast]

I think the Indoctrination Theory is a perfect way to continue the ending. It's a plot twist that has been right in front of us the whole time. It would be awesome to "experience" indoctrination.

That being said...the ending should have closure. It should be the sum of all our choices. I appreciate progressive and abstract art, but I don't think Mass Effect is the right place to exhibit such practices. I don't need a storybook ending, but having some endings with hope is necessary, I think. Also a completely bleak one would be great (Shep going Reaper or something). Right now the ending is just confusing and in between. I'm not sure whether something good or bad just happened. Though from what I learned from Arrival, all those explosions means everyone is dead. So yay for the next cycle if there are any planets left! xD

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say "WE WANT MORE HARBINGER!" He's a great villain, and ME2 really builds up the desire to kick his butt! The conversation with Sovereign was probably my favorite moment of ME1. That's when the game got serious. Before then, the game was great, but that moment is when I realized that this was something special. I had a sense impending doom. A hopeless doom. But I knew that Shepard and crew would figure out a way to stop the Reapers or die trying. The current ending is not the culmination of all the things I felt in that moment. If I knew that was how it was going to end...I don't know. It just doesn't fit.

Anyways, I strayed from my point a bit. With more Harbinger I think it's important to actually fight him. I don't think that's too "video gamey." Boss fights are how you, the protagonist, confronts an antagonist in the setting of a video game. It's how you resolve the conflict. You get all this frustration and anger built up and finally get to release it. It might be "cliche," but I'd say it's used in virtually every game because it WORKS. It's no more cliche or overused than having a conflict in a story. We got to kill Kai Leng and he was even less developed than Harby.

I'm just throwing out a suggestion I think would be really cool for a Harbinger fight, but I think it would be awesome if we could use our war assets like we use squad members to fight against him. Having artillery strikes and air support on our wheel things (sorry, the term escapes me). Then get in a shuttle in the middle of the chaos and crash into him and climb inside of him (it's been demonstrated that they are built just like ships and can house a crew, i.e Saren, derelict Reaper). So you get to fight through him and destroy him from the inside. Then confront his true form (because according to my information Reapers are actually piloting the squid shells and look more like the original race they were created from, i.e. Human Reaper). So yeah, just an idea!

In regards to war assets, it would be great to actually see them in action. I would love to see Krogans going berserk on baddies and Volus bombers and all that great stuff. Maybe that would be too much work, but currently, "war assets" is just another term for "points."

Love interests? I think everyone wants to have some closure there. I'm not sure how well marriage and all that would fit into the game. But even a hint or something. All I know is that seeing Ashley (my Shepard's LI) walk off the ship with Joker...and what that implied......it didn't make me happy. I know lots of people want to see their BLUE CHILDREN x] and I don't see why they should be denied!

Okay, so now that that's out of the way...things that I thought were AMAZING.

I'd say pretty much everything up to the ending.

The sound:

GREAT music. It really brought back the ME1 vibe with the electronic stuff. It felt perfect. The guns sounded and felt great. Really interesting and really different. Great variety. And the REAPER NOISES. Fantastic! Reminded me of Transformers but WAY better.

Visuals:

Graphics were great! I noticed that when cutting to one angle from another things would jump around sometimes, but that's just a little glitch, I'm sure. The armor and faces are all really high quality. I really like how you guys put so much in the background. The whole opening sequence on earth, getting to see the dreadnought shooting at the Reaper. Top notch! Loved it!

Characters:

Characters were as good as ever! I loved getting to see my old squad mates pop up in random places. Jack was especially refreshing. I didn't care too much for her in ME2, but her new look and maturity really impressed me. I felt like Wrex was a little distant, being one of my favs in ME1, but that's okay. He has a lot on his plate. Garrus, however...bravo. He's been my bff since forever and I loved every moment with him. "Just like old times." I think that every time I see him :').

Combat:

The combat feels perfect. It's one of the best systems I've ever had the pleasure of using, for the most part. Much more responsive than before, and very satisfying to kill things. Nice touch on the damage indicator, btw. Melee still feels a bit weird, but the addition of heavy melee is really cool. The guns are are awesome! They feel...real? I guess? I mean I know it's a game. But the sound design for them and the recoil and all that. I can't explain it...but it's really well done!

Additional thoughts:

I liked being back on the Presidium. I missed that place in ME2.

I think the quest system is a bit lacking. Eavesdropping is an interesting route to take. Not a game-breaker, though. But the quest tracking could use a great deal of improvement. Also having to walk around every level of the Citadel so many times got tedious. But mainly the quest tracking is the issue.

The Reaper-chase "mini-game" is interesting. Sort of annoying, but not terrible x]. I DO think scanning rather than zooming in to every single planet was a great mechanic. Though I miss landing on planets.I think in ME1 the planets you could land on were too dull, but in ME2 the planets were too linear. Then in ME3 there are none at all xD. Maybe a balance. Again, not a game-breaker. My main concern is the conclusion.

So yeah, for 98% of the game I was grinning ear-to-ear and couldn't shut up about how amazing it was. Raving that it was the best game I've ever played, better than the first two combined, etc... But the ending just really crushed me. Took away the replay value for me, and many others. I won't say any more about.

Sorry if this isn't very well organized. I really want to help and be involved, so I'm sharing my thoughts. Even IF they're scattered 

Thank you for being so cool about this. I'm hopeful that this can all be worked out for the better and we can bring ME to a satisfying and beautiful conclusion.

All the best!

EDIT: format adjustments

Modifié par FellishBeast, 23 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[Stakrin]

Shepard-Harbinger argument would be nice, but I took his discussion with star child to be part of that (he seems to be reaper mindset correct?)
A way (lots of war assets?) for a 4th ending
Shows the army you built fighting, krogans fighting Ravegares, Krogans, Rachni, and Salarians working together. Turians and alliance taking down Husks and Maurdaers, Asari vs. banshee, and then a mix of races, show Elcor and Hanar commanding Drell providing back up, then named character's close ups (show Wrex and Kirahee killing together (maybe even Rachni queen?)

Then Shepard and two other party members successfully make it onto crucible. All get split up, Same story happens w/ Anderson and TIM but somehow The team manages to reunite. Then do a fight ending, SC shifts or possess TIM (something of the sort) and becomes an extremly powerful reaper consensus corruption and you kill him (maybe at loss of some squads depending on war assets (if you have enough more people help defend them) and shepard may live and return to Normandy, after killing consensus the Reapers are scattered and cannot think like they used to, and they are able to be overpowered, destroying Repears saving Earth, Shepard, and Normandy
Unless you didn't have a powerful team, in which case Normandy could be destroyed, Earth could, all squadmates, or maybe even destroy SC but Reapers are able to flee after taking heavy damage (but also killing shepard normandy, and most of Sol system)

[WrathPit]

I really have no suggestions so I will just post my feelings.

I just have to say that as a PC gamer, I want to thank Bioware's teams for making a game that I never had trouble running on my machine. There were no hiccups except for a stick here or there that the autosave took me out of within 10 minutes worth of content. I know it's part machine but from minute one, any glitches were small QA problems and no lack of interfacing between my computer and the software. The graphics were crisp, load times quick and I loved how the cinematics flowed from minor loading screens.

Writers, you've had it tough and I say this from the heart. Your work is, despite what many seem to say, art. Just like every other facet of life, art is encroached upon by business. Please, take all of your criticism with a grain of salt, learn and move on. We all know it's impossible to please everyone and this case can truly hurt but please keep trying. Just because I'm personally dissatisfied with how things ended, doesn't mean I don't respect it. I'm very immature in my desire for entertainment. I love the simple, happy ending because life is bad enough. Did I expect Shepard to live happily ever after? No, but I hoped. to feel good about the end and it was tough. That's not to say it was bad writing, just not my cup of tea. However, I can't tell you all how many times I laughed with the amazing dialogue and interactions between characters. Even the little emails and updates from old acquaintances gave the game a touch of joy and heartache for me. I actually had to stop reading when I read one report about Kal'Reegar sacrificing himself to help a squad escape. That's just one of those little touches that remind me how powerful your hold has been over me.

I can't say I loved everything about the sound as some of the speech patterns seems to "jump cut" at some points but the music was perfect. The writing stood alone in most parts to invoke the emotions but some of the music was just unfair. Watching Mordin die to that sad music just pushed all the right buttons.

I know with all the negativity and disrespect, no one will read this but I wanted to say my peace in the only place my words might be seen. Thanks for the trip Bioware. I won't get on the bus without checking the fare anymore but you always have my love and respect for what you've created.

[Dranks]

Need a more uplifting ending. It doesn't have to be sunshine and roses but I'm not too big on the fact that I spent about 200+ hours and 150 bucks on 3 games just so I could do the reapers jobs for them. Seriously, a galactic dark age? I wanted to help THESE people, these races. I don't care at all about whatever is happening 10,000 years into the future. It would be like Star Trek if warp technology was suddenly taken away across the galaxy. EVERYTHING would crumble.

That being said I feel like your universe was one of the best in science fiction. I believe your universe can go toe to toe with some of the best in sci-fi, such as Star Trek, Doctor Who, and Babylon 5. That's why I felt so upset, because I feel like it is now destroyed. So it's really out of love that I give this feedback.

Modifié par Dranks, 23 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[me3lol]

Extract my feed back from this

Modifié par me3lol, 23 mars 2012 - 04:41 .

[Peyote Pyro]

 I'm concerned by several of the statements Bioware employees have made, which so far have tended to refer to
players needing “more closure” and pledging to “provide clarification and answers to the questions players have.” Let me be clear about this: clarification is not what's needed here. The problem is not that I don't understand the
ending. I understand it. The problems with the ending are structural problems, not problems of exposition.

It's not that I wanted a straightforwardly happy ending. I don't mind Shepard dying, I don't mind the Normandy crashing. What I really care about is that this ending undermines every theme of the entire story up to this point – all the stuff about tolerance and unity in diversity that a paragon Shepard's been working so hard to promote. You've talked about preserving the game's artistic integrity, but it's the current ending that undermines the artistic integrity of the trilogy, by being both logically and thematically inconsistent with everything that came before it.

There are other really serious problems, of course: the numerous logical problems and plot holes. The abrupt shift in tone from the “triumph over insurmountable odds” motif that characterized ME1, ME2, and the first 99% of ME3. The fact that while the endings have different implications, what we actually see is functionally identical, in a series that has always made a point of showing actual consequences of player choices. The fact that Joker runs away like a
coward, abandoning Shepard, who literally died to save his life. The Stargazer epilogue, which seems to be rubbing the player's face in the fact that your actions destroyed space travel for generations, despite the fact that I'm
obviously playing this game because I love space opera. But all of those issues, while significant, pale beside the fact that the ending we got runs counter to all the major themes of the trilogy and requires Shepard to behave
in a way that's completely out of character, even under these extreme circumstances.

I spent the entire game making peace between disparate cultures. I made turians and krogan get along. I made quarians and geth put aside their enmity. I told everyone who'd listen, again and again, that peace and cooperation are always options no matter how different we are. I was told by Javik that this unity in diversity was the only hope for our cycle – the Protheans assimilated other cultures, and thus destroyed their own chance to beat the Reapers.

And yet every choice I get, at the end, is based on the premise that war between synthetics and organics is absolutely 100% inevitable, so that the only options are to annihilate one side, to mind-control them into obedience, or to destroy
diversity by merging them together (isn't that basically what the Protheans did? weren't we told that was a bad thing?). So I'm left with two possible interpretations of the ending, no matter which ending I pick – either:

a) Shepard was a liar, for the whole game, every time she told anyone that synthetics and organics didn't have to kill each other, and she wasted trillions of lives chasing a naïve and foolish ideal.

or

 Shepard was right, organics and synthetics can get along – but at the end she betrayed herself and her beliefs and condemned the entire galaxy to a tragic end that didn't have to happen.

Is that how you wanted people to come away remembering Shepard? Either a naïve idiot, or a failure who ultimately lost faith in her cause when it counted?

In any interpretation I can come up with, the child – the Catalyst – is the real villain of the whole trilogy, the representative of whoever came up with this whole Reaper idea. Accepting any of the choices the kid offers means Bad Guys Win, full stop: the villain gets one of the things it wanted. But there's no option to reject the kid's choices or the premise they're based on. There's no option to say “Just because you guys were losers who failed at making peace with your own synthetics, that doesn't mean everyone else will” or “Who the hell are you to play god with the destiny of other species, anyway?” or anything like that. Isn't that what Interrupts are for? Isn't that what Shepard does?

I can accept having to make a Sophie's Choice if the circumstances really warrant it, like on Virmire. That felt meaningful, because the dilemma flowed naturally out of the situation Shepard was in. But what you gave us isn't anything like Virmire: it's a situation where an NPC who Shepard has no reason to trust simply presents a
buffet of three equally terrible and completely arbitrary options, with no explanation for why any of them should be necessary – you can't even ask him why there's no way to kill the Reapers without destroying all synthetic life, or why any of the options have to involve destroying the mass relay network – and Shepard, at the crucial moment her life has been building toward for three years, suddenly turns into the sort of person who meekly does as she's told without looking for another way. I can't accept that.

Furthermore, the sacrifice on Virmire accomplished an important objective, allowing players to comfort themselves with the knowledge that your squadmate's life wasn't simply thrown away. The decision to sacrifice the entire infrastructure of galactic civilization (and so much more) at the end of Mass Effect 3 doesn't feel worthwhile like that. The devastation is so thorough as to render nearly all of Shepard's previous choices and accomplishments meaningless - the quarians and geth will never move forward as friends and allies, the krogan won't be able to rebuild their culture under Wrex's leadership, anyone you helped on the Citadel is dead. In all of the possible endings, so much has been lost that on a purely emotional, player-response level, it feels only marginally better than simply letting the Reapers kill everyone. It's just not worth it.

Just give me the Interrupt on the kid, let me tell him he's full of crap and organics and synthetics will make their way in the galaxy together without relying on some ancient race of meddlesome know-it-alls to save us from ourselves. Do that and you can kill Shepard if you want, kill Tali and Garrus and Joker and Wrex and every squadmate Shepard's ever had, blow up the Normandy, make it as bittersweet as you like. I like bittersweet. What we've got now is just bitter.

Modifié par Peyote Pyro, 23 mars 2012 - 04:54 .

[Miekkas]

I've written about this before on this thread and just now on another, but I wanted to share it on here and further expand on what I consider to be a serious problem with the Reapers and introducing a motive for their actions whether it be the existence of the Catalyst as AI (creating synthetics to kill organics so synthetics don't kill organics) or the original dark matter story.

Let's consider everything the Reapers have stated in regards to their state of existence and relationship with organics in the Galaxy. Take note at how the introduction of the Catalyst as an AI, and what it says COMPLETELY contradicts everything the Reapers have said in Mass Effect 1 and 2:

Sovereign:
"We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it."

Sovereign:
"Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding."

Sovereign:
"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even
imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign."

Sovereign:
"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives
are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal,
the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing.
Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything."


Sovereign:
""Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our
technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we
desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because
we allow it, and you will end because we demand it."

Sovereign:
"My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation -
independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our
existence."

In my opinion, there is no
enemy more intimidating than one whose logic or better yet existence you
cannot comprehend. The Reapers were introduced in Mass Effect as
literal grim reapers (no pun intended) who represent being of seemingly
infinite powerful that we have nearly no hope of being able to defeat.
They want our destruction and arrogantly hold us so far beneath their
contempt that we are unworthy of even being given some form of
explanation. 

Their relationship with us is best thought of
being similar to the one we as humans typically have with insects within
our home. When an insect is inside a person's home, the human is most
likely going to kill the insect without a moment of hesitation. Why
though? It is because we as humans hold the insect as being so
infinitely inferior to us, that killing it because it is inside our home
is not worth an explanation. Thus is it so with the Reapers and us in
the game. The Galaxy is the Reapers' "home", and we are the insects. We
are regarded as being so inferior to them that they feel there is no
need for an explanation as to why they are killing us.

With the
introduction of a motive, Bioware committed the largest mistake a
writer(s) can make when designing a villain: they tried to humanize a
villain who up until now has been designed to be the exact opposite of
being worthy of empathy. When designing a villain, the very first thing
that is done is you deprive them of anything that the average player,
reader, viewer, etc can relate to in a positive way. You make them ugly,
arrogant, lustful for power, etc. It makes it easier for the villain to
be hated and gives the player greater incentive to want to defeat them
in the end. Humanizing the Reaper completely wipes out this concept that
the entire series has been reinforcing, and seemingly it was done for nothing more than "surprise twist!" shock factor. It completely contradicts EVERYTHING that has been stated by Sovereign and Harbinger.

The
introduction of the Catalyst as an AI who controls the Reapers creates a
mass of problems in the form of contradictions and plot holes. It
effectively reduces the Reapers from being powerful sentient machines to
seemingly the slaves of this single AI who is stuck in one place as the
Citadel. Take note at hoe Sovereign states they we evolve and develop
according to the path that they desire....errr....so why not have us develop down a

path that doesn't involve creating synthetics who kill so that you
don't have to commit genocide against us? Were the Reapers outright
lying to you throughout the entire trilogy or completely out of the loop on what their purpose was or just plain arrogant?
Was Sovereign just an idiot and that's why he was left as the
vanguard so the other Reapers did not have to deal with his senile statements?  So much for them being these larger than life villains that
we are incapable of understanding. 

The
Catalyst as an AI or/and the introduction of an understandable motive,
illogical or not, completely destroys the dynamic of the Reapers
established in the first two games. Bioware needs to stop trying to give
complexity to the Reaper when frankly, they don't need it to be great
villains. Bioware, leave the Reapers as the villains they were portrayed in Mass Effect 1 and 2, and it would save you a lot of grief in trying to explain the massive plot holes in the ending.

[lalaith3]

ZodiEmish wrote...

I want an ending that is really an ending. I want an ending that does not leave any plot holes, and does not make me ask questions. I don't want to finish a game and have to think about the ending to make it make sense. I want it to make sense the first time.

First of all, sorry for quoting this post from about 800 pages ago, but I just started reading this thread. I just felt that I had to say, an ending that you have to think about is not a bad thing. In fact, it's a good thing...and especially good for gaming, which is maturing as a story-telling medium. However, an ending with plot holes and no real answers is different than an ending that you have to think about, so I think Bioware still has some work to do. As much as my little heart desires complete closure when it comes to Shepard and her friends/allies and LI, I would be happy with an ending that left this stuff relatively open. I think the Indoc theory does fill the plot holes and fit really well with the game and could be a way to remedy the problems without just scrapping the original ending for something that is more likely to appease fans and tie up every loose end. I think the fans just need to feel like they don't have to grab an explanation out of thin air...they just want a little more to go off of so that the ending feels like it can fit in the Mass Effect universe we have come to know and love. 

[zippythecellist]

Definitely don't scrap the ending entirely...IF the indoc theory is true. (btw, this page explains why the theory could be true VERY well: http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck) Because that's the only way the ending makes any sense. If this is the case, we need to know how the catalyst actually does get fired. Does someone else do it while shepard was out? Or maybe someone managed to do it remotely? I'm sure other people have already ranted why they want this to be the ending, so I'll spare everyone my own novel length rant. xD

One thing I DO want though, is an actual "perfect" ending where everyone lives, and the relays/citadel are still intact and you get to see how shepard and your LI turned out if you had one. This is exactly why I had a character for para/rene/mixed through all 3 games; I knew the badass renegade who pissed everyone off would likely be rewarded by karma by dying in their LI's arms or something like that. Of course I prefer the sunshine and bunnies ending, but I want to see if I'm right about a 100% renegade character. Oh, and if you guys could possibly give my femshep+garrus a house on palaven or earth, (or both! xD) and that human-turian baby, that would be awesome!

Modifié par zippythecellist, 23 mars 2012 - 05:10 .

[logan23tom78]

Mass Effect 3 ending DLC

Using the Indoctrination theory:


Scene with the God Child-

• At the scene with the God Child, you can allow Shepard to win an argument with it only if you have created peace with the Quarians and the Geth. When you win the argument the God Child then its shape changes, and you hear Harbinger's voice through the kid, and then you start to hear people talking as it fades out and into where you are in a building injured along with those who pulled you from the rubble.

• If you didn't create peace with the Quarians and the Geth then you must choose from the tree options as originally presented in the vanilla game.

After Shepard wakes up either from the choice option or winning the argument you will find yourself in a building near the beam. The British guy from the trailers will be there along with one or both of your squad mates.

• This scene you discover that Anderson is either badly injured or dying from his wounds. This is where you will have that scene between them that will show Anderson passing on the leadership to Shepard.

• One of Shepard's squad-mates could die during the run to the beam. This will be determined by possibly the Military strength number or some other variable.

Next scene is based on how Shepard handled the choices that the God Child/Harbinger gave him/her.

• If Shepard chose to break from it or choose to destroy the Reapers will be more aggressive.

• If Shepard chose to synthesis/merge then someone will mention that his synthetics inside of him are merging with his organics like seen with Saren or a Husk but different. This state will increase as you get closer to the final end scene of the game, but it will be more internal verse seeing it manifest visually.  

• If Shepard chose to control he will hear a voice of Harbinger as to calling out to him as his destiny. This control part and Harbinger reaching out could be done through hearing Harbinger talking to Shepard's mind. 

Getting into the Citadel by Beam or another way-

• This level should be short and be focused on Shepard making choices over the radio to the different war assets. By using the choices in a dialogue, we can see scenes play out using in game engine or even just VO over the radio combined with sounds are showing of explosions. This was used on Thessia where we heard the cries of the Asari team being killed by an incoming Reaper. This method will get us to the Citadel allowing Shepard to make choices with war assets and done in a way that will keep costs down verse rendering everything in video. Keeping this short will erase the feeling that the player is doing the same thing over again.

Once to make it to the Beam/Citadel, you and two squad members head into the citadel to discover that those who didn't escape before the Citadel were moved are either indoctrinated or hiding. Once Shepard looks over the scene here there is a message from Admiral Hackett, he mentions that the arms of the Citadel are opening, and they are planning to get the Crucible ready to dock with the Citadel. As Shepard is trying to send word to Hackett that Shepard was not responsible, you are interrupted by a hologram of the Illusive Man.

• The Illusive Man will explain that he has discovered how to actually break the signal of the Reapers and with the Crucible docked with the Citadel, he will be able gain full control over the Reapers. Shepard will be able to argue with the Illusive man about wither; he is being a puppet for the Reapers but then the Illusive Man gives you a demonstration by breaking the signal and causing the Reapers to move away from the Citadel. Hackett over the radio mentions that the Reapers seem to be falling back, and they are making their way with the Crucible. Hackett keeps asking Shepard is this your doing, or is this a trap by the Reapers. Illusive man will then after that un block your radio signal and give you a choice to either confirm that Shepard is responsible for the arms' opening or the Illusive man will command the smaller Reaper/destroyers or Reaper forces on Earth to attack in a suicide wave that will surely over whelm any defenses. If Shepard says no deal, subsequently you will see Reaper forces come in and kill your forces on Earth or a few ships- this will depend on what is felt proper for the scene.

Once Shepard agrees to this you will see the Crucible as in the vanilla game dock with the Citadel.


Shepard and squad must rush to where the Illusive man is in order to stop him from gaining full control of the Reapers and use them to destroy the alien fleets and impose his new rule on humanity and the galaxy. Shepard's companions suspect the Illusive man will conduct full genocide of alien species like the Turians.

• During this level, Shepard is reminded that if he stops the Illusive man, then the Reapers will gain back their own will and Shepard might end up with the final effects of the indoctrination – if he chose the control or merge options.

• As you make your way through enemy forces, you will have opportunities to help those on the Citadel escape but by doing so you are also allowing the Illusive man more time to be in control of the Reapers as he starts to attack key alien species flag ships.

• There can be moments where a Shepard, who selected merge/control/destroy see extra dialogue or options in how the level can play out. These would be small tweaks.

• During the Citadel events, there will be an opportunity to get those on the Citadel to leave to save some lives. However, by doing this will allow Illusive man more time in control and destroying the Alien fleets- the Council's main ship will be destroyed as a result. 

Final end fight is with the Illusive man and his control. This Boss Fight will be one of words and problem solving, not one of the full-out brawl.


After the defeat of the Illusive man-


Control

• If Shepard chose the control option earlier than he will feel the Reapers/Harbinger entering his mind. He must take the illusive man's place and control of the Reaper signal or disrupt it, but unlike the Illusive man had synthetic and Reaper tech in him for this purpose, Shepard doesn't. The player is compelled as he sees the horror of the Reapers destroying their forces and having Harbinger in a sense mocking him that this is un a voidable -your extinction. Shepard goes in and takes Illusive man's place and feels the energy ripping through his body as he can hear from Hackett over the radio that the Reapers have stopped and to move in to attack-destroy the Reapers. Before Shepard gets into place he radios Joker to come in and pick up his squad-mates. If you Love interest is a squad member he/she will wish to stay with you and as Shepard, you can either allow the LI to or convince them to leave.

• The one or both squad-mates will be seen getting onto the Normandy as Joker or if your LI is on the ship will ask where you. They will tell them that you are buying them time. As this scene is playing out it flashes back and forth to this and Shepard in pain as he is holding back the Reapers with Harbinger in his mind taunting him as you start to see the Reapers being destroyed.

• If Shepard chose control will allow Shepard to force the smaller Reapers to turn on the Larger, especially Harbinger which, then starts to attack the Citadel. Harbinger is destroyed by the smaller Reapers and the Alliance Fleet. Shepard might live only the military strength is at the max, and the right choices are made. If Shepard dies, then his/her body is discovered and given a hero’s burial where you see a row of known friends who all have a small voice over as the casket is lowered or whatever is determined as the burial method.

Merge

• If Shepard chose the merge option earlier than he will feel the Reapers/Harbinger entering his mind. He must take the illusive man's place and control of the Reaper signal or disrupt it, but unlike the Illusive man had synthetic and Reaper tech in him for this purpose, Shepard doesn't but since his synthetics are connecting to his organic side in sense merging he can reach out through the Citadel and Crucible. The player is compelled as he sees the horror of the Reapers destroying their forces and having Harbinger in a sense mocking him that this is un a voidable -your extinction. Shepard goes in and takes Illusive man's place and feels the energy ripping through his body as he can hear from Hackett over the radio that the Reapers have stopped and are moving to attack the Citadel/Crucible. Before Shepard gets into place he radios Joker to come in and pick up his squad-mates. If you Love interest is a squad member he/she will wish to stay with you and as Shepard, you can either allow the LI to or convince them to leave.

• The one or both squad-mates will be seen getting onto the Normandy as Joker or if your LI is on the ship will ask where you. They will tell them that you are buying them time. As this scene is playing out it flashes back and forth to this and Shepard in pain as he is holding back the Reapers with Harbinger in his mind taunting him as you start to see the Reapers move to attack the Crucible/Citadel.

• The Fleet takes this moment to attack the Reapers as we see the Citadel taking fire from the Reapers. Shepard reaches out with connection to the Crucible and over loads the power stored inside it and explodes destroying the Reapers near the Crucible/Citadel including Harbinger. Shepard dies in the blast doing what Harbinger won't do and that is risk one's own life for others. There is a symbolic burial of Shepard where you see a row of known friends who all have a small voice over as the casket is lowered or whatever is determined as the burial method.

Destroy or break free/argument

• If Shepard breaks from it or picks destroy choice, Shepard will be greeted by an VI of the Citadel/Crucible. This VI appears only since you are not indoctrinated. VI then goes on to explain how the Crucible can be used to destroy the Reapers. The VI informs Shepard that by connecting the powerful energy of the Crucible with the signal code of the Reapers the Crucible can then release this energy and attack all Reaper tech. A squad mate will ask to wither this destroys the Mass Relays since they were built by the Reapers. The VI cannot fully insure the outcome but states it's possible.

• As the battle goes on and the Reapers gain back their signal Harbinger starts to move some to the Citadel to stop Shepard. Your Squad is told to leave as the Normandy is called in order to pick them up. Shepard will make a last call to the Admiral Hackett and the rest of the Fleet and instructs the Alien Fleets to head back to the Mass Relay. Some of the Alien leaders will want to stay, but you tell them there is a chance that the Relays will be destroyed. Depending on past the alien leaders will leave you or only part of their fleet will. The gamble is that the remaining Alliance fleet might not be able to finish off the Reapers. The final scene is the wave of energy as it sends out and we see Harbinger be destroyed saying one last word to Shepard.

• As this event is happening, you see the Alien fleets jump through the Relay as the Reapers are being destroyed. The blast hits the Mass Relay and starts to take the energy that energy and sends it to the next, and to the next where the final blast is sent into the unknown space outer space. The Citadel starts to break up. Shepard is dead, killed in the blast as the Crucible starts to fall apart. His Armor and N7 tags are buried in a hero's burial. You then see at the end of the burial ceremony it fades to images of the different world showing that their fleets made it back through the Mass Relay to their home world. There is a collection of images of life rebuilding and going on as for example Krogan Eve with child or Garrus on Pavlian looking up to the sky thanking Shepard.

• If the relays are destroyed you will see a shot of the different cultures progressing and reflecting, Krogan Eve with child or Garrus on Palaven looking up to the sky thanking Shepard. These images would be different depending on what you did like cure or not cure the Genophage. These also can be used with the other endings as well.
• Leaves with a hint that they will try to rebuild the mass relays.

Low Military strength- Reapers Win

If you have very low Military Strength, then in the final events-

Control- Shepard has a hard time under the control which makes him unable to protect the Normandy as it comes in order to get your squad leading to the ship being destroyed and those on board die. From there it goes down hill as the Reapers are still even with your attempt are able to over whelm the forces that were left.

Then there is a fade out and in with a new alien species finding Liara's capsule and activating it as Liara's hologram stats to talk...fade to black.



Merge- Shepard is incapable to over load the Crucible since the fleet was unable to protect it from the Reapers. The Reapers destroy the Crucible as well as Shepard and the rest of the fleet.

Then there is a fade out and in with a new alien species finding Liara's capsule and activating it as Liara's hologram stats to talk...fade to black


Destroy/Break Indoct- Shepard starts to arm the Crucible, but it was too late; the Alliance and alien Fleets are being destroyed. The blast from the Crucible is released destroying the Reapers but in the end no one survives. Everyone is destroyed except those who didn't come to the fight. The Relays are destroyed as shown in the successful (Destroy/Break Indoct).


The main emotion is you want your Shepard to feel that emotion where you see a friend who is about to get shot and you shield him/her with your body. That person you protect is the future-humanity-Earth, Galaxy

This can be Free by-
This can all be payed for by simply tweaking the price of future DLC by 50 cents to a dollar.

Win- Win

[Aliem81]

All I want is little blue babies... somewhere. Even if it's just Shepard dead with Liara pregnant (or any female LI for DudeShep players). Shepard's offspring showing a continuity of the setting and universe, saying implicitly that after the ending there will be another generation to experience the post-ME3 universe.

I mean, I'd like to see the fallout from all my choices: what a Rannoch with two sentient species looks like; Tuchanka being revived; Earth, Palaven, and Thessia rebuilding, etc. But I'd settle for little blue babies and have the rest inferred.

[balance5050]

If you guys don't reveal indoctrination theory as your own I'm going to flip because it is a miracle of god how well it fits with all the clues left throughout the series. Seriously, I think I'll have to check myself into the local asylum.... The odds that you guys just lost all narrative direction and common sense in the last ten minutes, and weren't planning this massive troll, just seems insane.

It would just be beyond reason to me and my mind would be broken... I want to believe you guys... but I'm losing more hope every day...

[WQFNHJNHNFNFNFBFNFN]

If you guys really want to make a great ending, all you have to do is look at the ending of the Tuchanka sequence. That was an incredible way to end one of the main plots running through Bioware. It had a variety of different outcomes, a bittersweet ending, and it took your choices into account.

[Damien Nightwind]

You know what would have been interesting to see in the game, a feature where you could make use of the assests that you gathered before the final mission.

Like for example there could be missions kind of like what the multiplayer is, but Shepard (aka You) cant go do them. Instead you have to send the assets you have gathered to do them. The thing is that each of these missions would be different and require different skills, and you could only send a certain amount of your assets to finish it.

Now say you get one mission that says it would be best suited for biotics, if you send in someone like Jack or Samara then you have a greater chance of succeeding (other factors would play into it too like your total strength and galactic readiness), but if you didnt send in assets that had biotics then they were less likely to succeed.

An example of this could be a mission that needs someone with hacking skills. Sending someone like Kasumi would be great, but if you send no one with hacking skills then they might run into say a sealed door that blocks their path and they all die.

This would have been an interesting feature, especially given how little is shown of the assets that you actually gather. And no it wouldnt just be the former recruitable characters that you could send, it would be other assets that you gathered as well, like ships or fleets or squads.