7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Frenzy 11]

Though I won’t elaborate my thoughts on the ending since many others have done it for me, I will point out that there was an immense lack of closure for the characters. Take for instance, Garrus, Javik and Vega – while Liara had Thessia and recruiting Javik, Tali with the Geth Dreadnaught and Rannoch, even EDI with the Cerberus base. You all had them in the squad for those missions, liked or not. What I would like to have seen for Garrus was one mission where you lead the crew into the heart of Palaven despite the Reaper infestation, to shred through the forces in order to rescue his parents, seeing more emotion from Garrus since it’s the only family he had left. For Javik, Cerberus go to Ilos to try and dig up any remains in hopes that they can either surface any Prothean technology or a Prothean like on Eden Prime. As for James, a mission where it revolves around his actions since it’s apparent he doesn’t care if he lives or dies, the mission acting as the sense that’s knocked into him. Though the female characters had their missions, it still lacked that sense of closure. Liara was shocked with Thessia, Tali was awe-struck with Rannoch, but what else? Couldn’t we include a side-mission for the two that brings a more personal touch? But I digress since hopefully my point is made across. Gameplay was excellent, so was the story (until the end of the Cerberus base of course,) but character development; it’s like an unsealed envelope because there wasn’t enough efficient information to be put in. So please, at least give us that chance to seal the envelope and know every detail about the characters we grew up to love and respect.

[Vortigernrex]

Some good ideas here that I've seen. The indoctrination thing is the obvious way to go - it really actually seems as though someone at Bioware planned for this all along - there are too many conincidences.

When Shepherd is faced by the three choices, the selection could have the following outcomes:

Synthesis: Basically what the Reapers have been saying all along. Choosing this path leads to Shepherd accepting indoctrination (flash scene to him lying on earth with Harbinger in the background - he stirs, eyes open suddenly, glowing like a husk. Perhaps a voice on the radio saying "It's Shepherd .. wait, something's wrong. Oh my god he is indoctrinated. Pull back, all forces, pull back!" - Harbinger hovers like a mother hen over her latest hatchling ...)

Destroy synthetics: Shepherd wakes up on the battlefield having inadvertantly given Harbinger access to take control of synthetics. Being partly synthetic himself, it could be said that he contained a copy of the control codes (reaper code modified by Legion) broadcast by Legion and the Geth (a cut scene showing the 'ghost of Legion' - a mental image downloaded to Shepherd -  saying nooooo and dissolving into datastreams). Shepherd's moment of compromise has given these codes to Harbinger. Geth, EDI and any other droids then switch sides and make things a lot harder for the allied species.

Control synthetics: As the 'star-child' said concerning TIM: "he cannot control as he is controlled". This control is therefore an illusion. He is subtly indoctrinated, like The Illusive Man but thinks he is in control. He could rise from the ruins with Harbinger and other Reapers in the background holding their fire, while Shepherd (looking more and more like TIM) gives a speech saying that the Reaper threat is over. They will serve humanity and help rebuild, and humanity stood poised to rise as the dominant power in the galaxy. (A real fascist type speech: "those who do not stand with us are against us ...")

If Shepherd's reputation (Paragon and/or Renegade scores) is high enough, two more choices could be presented:

Paragon: "Something is not right. This isn't right. I will not submit to your will for this galaxy and its people." Maybe fire a shot at the colour-coded contraption or even at the 'star-child'. He wakes up with a gasp in the ruins on earth as his two companions (looking as battered as he is) drag him away. Harbinger screams with anger in the background and maybe blasts some buildings. Normandy or a couple of shuttles could fly down to try to cover Shepherd's evacuation.

Renegade: "There's a fourth option, eat lead!" He opens up on the contraption / 'starchild' with a similar effect to above.

---------------------------------

Next scene can be a message from Admiral Hacket saying that something is happening on the Citadel. The arms are opening and it appears there is fighting. The citizens, C-sec and various mercenary groups recruited by Shepherd (Blue Suns, etc) are resisting the Reaper minions and their indoctrinated servants, including what remains of Cerberus.

Shepherd must now act the strategist. He must assign roles to his/her assets to hold off the Reapers while they attempt to take back the Citadel. What remains of the allied fleets will run interference, while ground forces try to delay the Reapers on Earth with counterattacks. Shepherd could choose roles for assets, such as: who will storm Harbinger head on as a distraction (Turians, Krogan or Rachni). Who will cover the flanks of the attack, who will hold the swarms of husks back from the Normandy. Etc. The more assets committed optimally will make the entire last strike easier and more likely to succeed. Also could reduce casualties, although heroic deaths by known characters could make this last ditch attack/defence/delaying manouvre more poignant for the whole story.

The operation kicks in, Normandy comes in to land as Reapers unleash everything they have to overwhelm what they see as the centre of resistance to their forces on Earth. Normandy takes off and flies to the Citadel which now is slightly open. Ships of all alliance races run interference, including heroic ramming of Reapers to try to clear Normandy's way. "Hold the Line" becomes the rallying cry ... Maybe have a damaged Quarian ship sacrifice itself, to save a Geth ship, which in turn rams a Reaper trying to intercept the Normandy. All races working together, based on Shepherd's previous actions to unite them. In amongst it all the crucible is launched to connect to the Citadel - this time for real.

Normandy dives between two arms of the Citadel and crash-lands (perhaps on the Citadel Commons). The inhabitants of the Citadel, C-Sec and the mercs led by Aria T'Loak (maybe even a few Volus and Elcor) are fighting a running battle with swarms of husks, Reaper servants and Cerberus. Synthetics like the Geth would also help the Reapers if Shepherd had chosen the 'destroy synthetics' option during the indoctrination scene. The more war assets on the Citadel Shepherd had accumulated, the better this battle would go and the smoother Shepherd's path to the Presidium. This battle would be much like the initial Cerberus attempt to take over the Citadel. Players could fight through familiar districts from any of the previous settings.

It would be a good idea to incorporate elements of the 'suicide mission' from ME2 whereby Shepherd and the crew need to split up. Perhaps sending some to try to rescue and secure the Council members, sending some to help Commander Bailey to hold C-sec headquarters and maybe some to help Aria take back control of the Docking area and keep the Citadel arms open while the crucible docks. Eventually Shepherd and one or two chosen companions (his romantic interest could insist on accompanying him to add to his fears for the finale - 'will she die if she comes with me?') would fight through to the Presidium council chambers.

The final battle could take place in the Presidium itself (where the council usually  held audiences). The comapanions may turn to fight a horde of husks while Shepherd goes on ahead. Shepherd is then confonted by the 'star-child' again, which appears to be a hologram. But now he is far beyond indoctrination control and the 'star-child' reveal's it's true form. It is a sophisticated AI directly linked to Harbinger, and through Harbinger, to the rest of the Reapers. The truth of the Reapers is that they are much like the Geth, sophisticated AI programmes that seek to incorporate organic and synthetic tech into their physical makeup (they see synthesis as the pinnacle of evolution). The Citadel itself is the 'main server' which links this Reaper AI network, maintaining communication and control between all Reapers. The Protheans had interfered in the control mechanisms of the Citadel (discussed in ME2), to prevent the Citadel from opening a relay point for the Reapers, but in so doing, they had isolated the Harbinger AI which no longer had full control over the Citadel and needed minions to restore its control. The AI 'Harbinger' then adjusts its holographic appearance to reveal itself to be ... wait for it ... Avina, the Citadel tour guide. This AI has been hiding in the VI network. Avina has taken many forms over the millenia, but she normally mimics contemporary life forms in order to hide in plain sight. Avina then releases her latest minion champion to take on Shepherd. This champion has taken the place of Saren. It is The Illusive Man, but mutated into a killing machine, part organic, part synthetic. He would be pretty monstrous, but also devious using sneaky technology, holograms and such to fight (since this is his character). Killing him will open up Avina's mainframe (perhaps with a spectacular explosion) which Shepherd can then deal with in a final death or glory rush. The mainframe can be initialised and manually linked to the crucible (which is basically a big antenna, designed to amplify signals through the relay network). Once initialised the crucible sends out a wave that disrupts the Reaper AI network and shuts down all the connections (maybe deleted the Reaper AIs from the entire galaxy-wide wireless network). Avina can start to dissolve with a cry as she turns into whatever her original form was millenia ago (I imagine the aliens that orginally created the Reapers looked vaguely like them). Maybe just as the Reapers break through defences everywhere in a mad rush to save their mainframe server and AI 'mother'.

The final cutscene should show the surviving characters trying to 'hold the line' wherever they were scattered, while huge hulking Reapers, husks and others crumple and go still wherever they may be. Whether Shepherd survives or not is another story. He could still die in the exploding AI server on the Presidium (like Mordin Solus), maybe holding on long enough for his companions (love interest) to escape. Or he could have an option to escape (if his military prep was high enough). Perhaps only his love interest would be the one to risk life and limb to drag him to safety - hopefully he took her with him, otherwise he would die alone. Maybe he could be the one lying in Huerta Memorial hospital while Ash and others look on. If Bioware feels particularly generous, they could show snaps of
rebuilding taking place on different planets, maybe led by surviving
characters from Shepherd's crew.

This whole thing will make a great DLC and I'd pay $10 for it (or something like it) since it is more than just an ending, it is a whole extra game mission tying everything together. Lot's of choices from previous games will play a role or influence how this scene plays out and who survives. Even the rebuilding at the end could be further along if certain choices were made, than if others had been made.

Hope you take this into account and thanks for listening to us the fans. I know you guys are under constant dealine pressure by your mother company to get boxes on the shelves by D-Day, even if this means cutting content. I imagine you had an elaborate ending planned and then had to cut it short. Thanks for being open to suggestions, though, and congrats on one of the best games in pc gaming history (the passion by fans surrounding the ending is testament to this).

[sideswipe79]

die-yng wrote...

Dragon Age Origins is a really good example, because your choices towards the end really decided the ending.
Something like the ending for DAO is almost exactly what I want, lot's of different outcomes, like f.e. granting the elves land of their own or strengthening the circle etc.,
So you got basically any ending, from a happy one where you are king or queen, to a noble sacrifice.
And you got at least some information, as to what happens with your companions and Ferelden.
Okay, a few pictures or clips would be better, but just some text about the fate of galaxy and people would go a long way.

Why not end ME that way? You'd have closure and everyone would be able to achieve the ending he wanted.

I agree with all of the above and would add that DAO also had an enjoyable boss fight rather than a debate.

[BeaArthur]

I actually like the ending assuming that
the Indoctrination Theory is correct.  When I first finished the game (got
the perfect ending) I had no idea what happened and I was confused and a little
annoyed.  Once I came across the Indoctrination Theory and examined all
the evidence, I accepted that as the ending to the game.  Unfortunately
without that research I would probably be as angry with the ending as a lot of other people seem to be.   



I think the real issue is the lack of explanation
as to what happened.  The final cut scene(s) is extremely
confusing...why is the Normandy traveling through a Mass Relay, how are the
only 3 people on the Normandy Joker and the two squad mates you took on the
mission, how did your squad mates get there?  Assuming the indoctrination
theory is true the easiest fix would be to add in new and different cut scenes
to each ending thus keeping the ending as is but allowing the player to
understand what has happened without ruining the twist (examples below).



Control Reaper ending:  Shepard takes control, the reapers leave and
the galaxy celebrates and creates a memorial to Shepard, etc.  After credits roll
you see Shepard stand up back on Earth immediately following Harbinger's attack
(before the Citadel) the eyes glow blue and you hear assuming direct control.
 This ending fits with what has taken place before it showing that both
the player and Shepard were indoctrinated and didn't even realize it. 





Synthetic ending:  Shepard makes all life synthetic and you see a 50K
year’s later black screen followed by the Normandy along with the Reapers
wiping out the next cycle.   After credits roll
you see Shepard stand up back on Earth immediately following Harbinger's attack
(before the Citadel) the eyes glow blue and you hear assuming direct control.
 This ending fits with what has taken place before it showing that both the
player and Shepard were indoctrinated and didn't even realize it.





Destroy Reapers ending:  Shepard wakes up on earth (indoctrenation failed) but for whatever
reason can't make it to the Citadel ensuring that the Reapers win.  In
this scenario we watch as the Reapers systematically eliminate all life in the
galaxy ensuring that the cycle continues.  After the credits it's 50K
years in the future and you see aliens exploring Earth oblivious to the
impending nightmare that awaits them.




Destroy Reapers perfect ending:  Shepard wakes up on Earth and makes it to the
beam.  From here I'm not sure what exactly to do, whether to kill Shepard
(making the ultimate sacrifice) or to have a truly "happy ending" and
everyone celebrates.  After the credits roll you get the exact same scene
with the old man and little boy.







The reason I think this is the best option is that it
allows for a mutually beneficial compromise between Bioware and the players.
 Players get an ending that makes sense and Bioware doesn't have to
rewrite the entire ending to the game.  The artistic integrity stays intact
and the player gets a satisfying and very clever ending.

[Valdimier]

If you still hold on the original outcome (Normandy crashes on a lonely planet), at least please explain how your crew ended up on the ship.

That is the only thing I can´t get over, when you take it as it is because it makes no sense.

[mi_dad]

My solution to the endings:

 

Leave the current endings alone, maybe a bit of a epilogue after each one to explain in further detail what happens to the galaxy.  Add one more option though. After Talkingwith the star child allow the option for Shepard to walk away from the 3 choices heading back to the beam that brought him to the citadel.  He can return to the surface telling the
fleet that the citadel is what’s controlling the reapers, and that the only true way to overcome them is to destroy the citadel, the StarChild's home.  Then we get to see our military strength comeinto play the fleet directly attacks the citadel, if your military strength is high enough you can destroy it, saving the relays and if your ems is not high
enough the relays are destroyed, either way the reaper threat has been eliminated. Of course with this option we still want closure for our characters.

Just my opinion, but it leaves the current endings intact and in place for those that like them, as well as opening up a few more possibilites for those that do not. 

Modifié par mi_dad, 23 mars 2012 - 02:08 .

[Morameph]

1) Remove the Chobits character, beyond being a pointless addition and unnecessary when there's already an existing reporter character, the inclusion of an IGN employee in the game is an insult to every person that bought the game due to the obvious conflict of interest as IGN is supposedly a 'reviewer' of Mass Effect.  How did anyone think this was a good idea?

2) Enhance the quest tracking system so that it actually tracks the progress of quests and not just lists new quests vs finished quests.  The fact that they don't track that you've picked up the item you need is just shoddy design.

3) Further enhance 'questing' so that you gain quests in other ways beyond just overhearing conversations.  When did Mass Effect stop being an rpg...

4) Add more exploration to the game, why is the citadel and the ship the only areas you can explore? 

5) Include maps that are not just recycled multi-player maps, it's painfully obvious that just about every area was designed with multiplayer in mind, again just highlighting the lack of exploration in a supposed rpg.

6) Seperate the jump over cover, the take cover button and the interact buttons - been a frustrating process since the first game making combat painful to attempt.  Worse when there's an item to interact with at a cover spot you can get stuck in a loop of grab cover and ignore the item, amazingly annoying when in combat.

7) Remove or possibly speed up the security checkpoint on the ship, that slow down on every return from mission is very jarring.

8) Do something with the collector's edition dog, I paid extra money and all I get is a robot dog that hangs around in the bowls of the ship?  Could you at least have put in in the captains quarters or show up on whatever deck your on?

9) Add scenes, even if not voiced, of each of your former companions in the final battle.  Perhaps each could with alternate paths based on the war assets, i.e. the better your sides preparedness the more triumphant your team looks in battle.

Modifié par Morameph, 23 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[Osirisktj]

99.9% of Mass Effect was, to put it bluntly, the best game I have ever played. I laughed, cried, squee'd and invested so heavily in the characters and completly imersed myself into the ME universe that I was actually at lost for words and very disspointed by the ending.

Was I wrong to assume that war assets actually meant something tangiable for the end sequence? What happened to my squad? Is everyonenow stuck in Sol? Why was Joker fleeing when he should have been flighting with the fleet? The ending left too many unanswered questions...

What I expected the ending to be like:

1. I had a feeling Shep would die, I could feel it in my bones so I didnt have a problem per say with her sacrifice. But what was the sacrifice for? The complete destruction of the Mass Relays? The breakdown of Galactic civilization. I think the price was too high.

2. What was with the god-child? That just didnt fit in with the rest of the story/lore. My Shep would have fought more. She would not have willing believed this and gone along with the options. Remove that section unless it's part of the indoctrination technique. I have hope in this theory! One requires hope in times like this!

3. I actually thought my war assets would mean something. I expected to see grunt and wrex leading charging krogan, salarian STG teams fighting, Samara kicking ass with her biotics, Jack with her students, etc. 

4. Remove the scene with the Normandy fleeing. This made no sence! Also how did my ground team end up on the Normandy when they were probably all crispy like Shep and probably dead?

5. The fact that someone who puts in the most amount of effort, does all the quests, MP and obtains full readiness has the same ending as someone who does the bear minimum is counterintuitive to the whole point of having options. It's almost a "what's the point in replaying to see what chosing this would have on the outcome"

6. Will full readiness and assests the fleet should bring down the reapers. The crusible should just emit a signal that brings down the reaper defenses? Kinda akin to Independence Day!

7. Will minimal readiness the reapers win and the cycle starts again.

8. Shep has work far too hard for too long to not have a happy ending. Is this too much to ask for? A little cut scene of Shep and Kaiden on a veranda in Vancover? Tali rebulding her homeworld?

Closure is a powerful thing when you have put in so much of your time and care into these characters and I'm sorry to say this ending does not work for me... I still have faith in Bioware that they are listening to us and will eventually bring out proper endings that reflect our choices!

[RaphDS]

Hi! My two cents:

To get it out of the way, I liked how it ended. BUT I did feel what it meant to be unhappy with the ending. The first run I did, I got a "Green" ending, which was what I felt was the best way to resolve the situation. In the end, I kept asking myself "Now what?" which was, well. Not fun.But as a story? I felt it was okay.

The things I'd love to see if you'd make DLC?

#1: Liara's "time capsule" she was making with Glyph. To me, if you want to show me what happens next to the galaxy, SHOW ME THAT THING. After all, it collects technology, Crucible plans, and even the stories and cultures of the galaxy at that point in time. Odds are they can even rebuild the relays if need be! And it can show how each race lived out after the war (i.e.: Krogan under Wrex turn out okay, Quarians rebuild on Rannoch, etc).

#2: Omega. 'Nuff said. (and lots of people like to see this too I bet)

#3: I still had some "why's" I liked to know:
- Why did Tali's team have to die on Haestrom? How does Dark Energy tie into the M.E. universe?
- Why does Cerberus attack Sur'Kesh? Why are they opposed to the Genophage cure?
- I get why stage a Citadel coup (Citadel being the seat of government and catalyst in the end) but why do Cerberus and the Reapers clash at Horizon? Are they opposed to or for each other? (Am leaning to "for". All the "processed" creatures on Sanctuary can be where the Reapers get extra soldiers as need be, and Cerberus their arm.)
- Why do we make a fuss over Sidonis being alive or dead, when he never shows up after? No consequences to that?
-

#4: Indoctrination theory sounds solid. Feel free to add it, but personally I liked it either way. It makes the most sense for a Renegade Shep, for me.

#5: I wish I could see the Normady in ship-to-ship combat. I remember how Joker shot the killing blow to Sovereign, and the Collector ship too. Can't we take down a Reaper the same way? Harbinger maybe? That'd be fun. (after all, the final sequence didn't SAY it was Harbinger that took down Hammer team)

#6: Is there a reward for getting my Galactic Readiness up to 7000+ or something? Please? Like nice weapons, or nice armor, at least a nicer looking space battle?

#7: More N7 missions please! Seriously. It may not make sense from a "final battle imminent" view, but I'd dig a sequence that lets me do more up front fighting with Cerberus, or with the Reapers. It'd be a break from all the "diplomatic backwork" we always do for the races. It's also where welcome fighting gets done, and it's fighting that feels purposeful. (in my head: a quick mission on Palaven itself where Shep can evac VIP turians with the Normandy, or a quick return to Ilos to recover data)

#8: Speaking of Ilos, would it be okay to go back there? I'd love to see it. It'd also be cool to show it to Javik.

#9: Apart from N7 missions, don't we have "Shadow Broker ops" we can help Liara out on? Data we bust out on missions like those go towards war assets, or we can make them story sequences. If anything, extra credits are also cool.

#10: I don't need a new ending. I just want to see what happened next. The relays are gone, the Reapers are stopped, and... well that's it. I like open-ended stories, but at least one last scene where somebody reflects on the galaxy after (apart from it being very big and full of life) is nice.


Thanks for listening Bioware team! You guys do good.

[Scout_064]

Hi, so first: ME 3 is, if we cut the End out, the best game ever


So, I think the End is, sry for that, ****. The only changes apllied on the Endscene are the Colours in the Explosions and that is disappointing.

Why could you not make a Ending like in ME 1 or 2 ?? If I play a Game then for a more or less good end ...


If you change something on the Gameending, then let Shepard survive if he has  reached a certain status in his callpoints ( Renagade, Model) or something similar.






PS: sry for the bad English i'm from Belgium ^^

[JC426]

This is a great video summation of the ending from the view point that it is not the true ending and just Harbingers attempts to indoctrinate Shepard and hints that the real ending will be a DLC, well here's hoping

[ddgiovanni]

 Dear
BioWare,
I think Mass Effect 3 is a great game, but it is ruined by its ending. 

Ignoring the non-sense (because I know you alredy read a lot of opinion about
this), I think that the real problem is the low variability of the ending! I
think that various endings must punish or reward players according to their
choices!

I think it is better if there is both the sad ending (where all characters
dies) and the Happy Ending where Shepard lives and goes back to all his friends
and also his/her patner!

Variability has always been one of the Key-point that makes Mass Effect unique
in videogames world! And this property is very important! especially in the end
of the game because we can see the consequences of our past choices!

I think it
is not correct that a person who played all chapters in a (almost) perfect way
has the same sad ending of the a player that played mass effect just to finish
it in a short time.



This is my idea... I think that Mass Effect's ending must have more
variability.



Other part of Mass Effect 3 is absolutely PERFECT! A really MASTERPIECE! I love
it! But I ask the possibility to finish the game without sacrificing Shepard at
all and make him/her comes back to all his friends and expecially his/her Love
interest.

 Thanks
for time offered to me and the possibility you gave me to explain my opinion.

[Segameister]

Overall, the game exceeded expectations.  The ENDING is obviously what needs to be changed!  What I would like to see:

1) The Mass Effect Relays do NOT get destroyed.  Why ruin a perfectly good universe?

2) Aria (possibly anderson, depending on scene with TIM) need to have escaped the Citadel / Crucible.  Go ahead and destroy it afterwards.

3) Shepard may live - I fully expect a lot of hoops to be jumped to if that does happen.  He / She will also immediately retire to some quiet corner of earth (maybe?).  I'm good with this being Shep's last game.  IF his / her LI s still alive by the end of ME, then they can be part of Shep's last scene. 

4) Endings with other characters.  I want closure for all characters from ME1 / 2 that survived to ME3.  Not necessarily happy ending closure - I fully expect some of them to die.  Garus dying to save Wrex is a great example of a glorious death, Jacob dying in a firefight on the citadel or destruction of the citadel - fast and cold - is a great example.  Decision driven death - choosing whether Jack's kids are on the front lines or not could dictate whether she lives or dies.

Replace the last scene entirely (part on the crucible with the kid).  IT does NOT have anything to do with any kind of all powerful entity.  This ending concept sucked with Battlestar Galactica, and it still sucks.  It goes directly against the 'physical' conflict of the entire series.  Shepard also isn't his/herself in the scene.  Shep's supposed to be a lion, not a lamb.  Shep doesn't quit, no matter how bad it looks.

Let this be a grand space / ground battle for the most part, where the size of the fleet built determines how 'good' the ending is.  The citadel is still the element needed for the crucible to fire, but in the process it destroys the citadel, Shepard (possibly with Anderson) needs to escape.  Jacob, Aria could have a role to play in the escape. 

With the ME relays not destoyed, and cultures that have ALL taken a lot of damage from the invasion, there's plenty of room for some great new stories in the ME universe. 

Modifié par Segameister, 23 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[paul.middlege]

First off, I'd like to say that I loved ME3. The overall story was fantastic and I've never had such a jaw dropping experience in a game before.

I'm personally pretty satisfied with the ending. I picked to control the reapers and felt it was a fitting conclusion - I brought Geth/Quarian peace and EDI was showing signs of "humanity", so felt destroying them was totally against what my Shep would do... Shep was obviously suffering from guilt of people dying and after seeing Mordin/Thane/Legion sacrifice themselves it was obvious that the best conclusion to Sheps story was to sacrifice himself for the greater good.

So why am I posting? Basically as someone who isn't disappointed overall I thought my input may provide a different take on things....

What DOESN'T need tweaking

• The general story
  The main story points must remain... the Illusive man appearing, the 3 choices, the child etc... do not make it so it was all in Shepards head - after being close to tears while watching my Shep sacrifice himself it would make it a kick in the balls if that didn't actually happen.
  
• Further explanation of the Reapers / the child etc.
  I like the mystery. I like that it was all a bit weird... it ties in with the Reapers being "beyond our comprehension". If needed, explain it further via books/comics etc.

What I'd like tweaked through DLC

• An explanation of what the Normandy was doing...
  This is the big issue with the ending for me as it made zero sense... Why was it fleeing the battle? why was Ashley there since she was in my squad moments ago? why was anyone there since they should have been on earth? etc. I like the symbolism of it, but it just didn't make sense... all it needed was Hackett saying something like "We are being over-run,  retreat" and then Joker saying "I've got everyone out.. where are you commander?" after the Illusive man dies & before the choices. Maybe too late to do this now though!
  
• An epilogue of some kind.
  I cured the Genophage and the Geth/quarians made peace... what happened? I controlled the Reapers - was that wise? What happened to my squad? This doesn't have to be long, it could be quick snap shots - for example having a shot of Ashley (my LI) pregnant would be enough for me (granted its cheesy, but it shows hope and Sheps personal legacy).
  
  What would be really cool is to have a "summary" video of my Sheps key achievements from ME1 to ME3 i.e. as a reward for completing the the games theres a new option in the main menu that has the story of shepard - your key choices, some cool rendered battle scenes etc... could then include a epilogue in this.

What I didn't like about the ending, but think is too late to change

• War assets ultimately seem a bit pointless
  I'm not sure how my War assets really helped... I assume everyone gets the 3 choices at the end, so why do war assets matter since I'm alone? There should have been a point before Harbinger where a lack of war assets means you/others die.
  
• Lack of final mission choices
  I was kinda expecting to be able to use all of my squad ala ME2 ending (i.e. "Garrus, you lead the turians... Ash & Edi you're with me"). And of cause there'd be consequences to this.
  
• Further to this, I was expecting to do the same with War assets... for example "Geth & quarian fleets: take out xyz" - together they succeed, but if there was no peace they succeed but get wiped out in the process etc.

I really don't think the above 3 bullets should be changed though as it would ultimatly impact the general story too much. It also doesn't really provide any closure, which is what most people seem to want.

[Silverreflection]

balance5050 wrote...

If you guys don't reveal indoctrination theory as your own I'm going to flip because it is a miracle of god how well it fits with all the clues left throughout the series. Seriously, I think I'll have to check myself into the local asylum.... The odds that you guys just lost all narrative direction and common sense in the last ten minutes, and weren't planning this massive troll, just seems insane.

It would just be beyond reason to me and my mind would be broken... I want to believe you guys... but I'm losing more hope every day...

After writing 2 1/2 pages about how I feel about the game and ending and series, and spending hours reading that other people share the same thoughts, that thought above is what keep me up last night. I literally only slept for 5 hours because I couldn't get that same idea out of my head.

I realized that I was not grasping at straws trying to justify the ending, I was grasping at straws to justify how bioware thought this would fly. I can fully believe that indoctrination threory is correct and that the real ending is still to come because that is something that is that would fit with the story and live up to their incredible emphasis on good story telling.

What is hard to believe is that they thought they could do this without this kindof crazy recoil from the fans. I said it in my last post as well, but the PR for their explanation will have to be superb. Because at the end of the day, most of the big ME fans have spent around 200 dollars on the games and DLC, and we would happily do it it all over again but to have invested time and money, and more than anything our emotional investment, only to be told "fork out 5 more bucks if you wanna see the ending" would be insulting. And you know what, you win, I would pay 100 dollars to get the true ending of this series if that's what it cost, but if it wasnt worth every last penny I would be insulted. So my point. Bioware if you charge me for the ending, it better be worth it. If it is, I will be absolutely ecstactic. I will be happier than you can even imagine, but if it is anything short of amazing it will be an utter letdown.

Also, has it been hard sitting on your hands during this time? I keep hoping that everyone at bioware is just sitting there waiting to tell us that the best part is still coming, but it must be hard to keep in while fans have written almost a 200 page thread and literally started a charity fundraiser for a better ending. I just hope everyone comes out of this looking classy.

Modifié par Silverreflection, 23 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[OAFSPGS]

I'm not really a fanboy.  This may get me mocked here, and so be it, but I don't really care that much about plot holes or other inconsistencies.  What I care about is my Shepard, my love interest, and my crew.  I invest my time in role-playing games for payout in the form of emotional satisfaction.  I don't want deep thought, I don't want intellectual musings, I don't want art.

I want a happy ending.  I want the bad guys punished for messing with me.  I want all of my teammates to survive (or as many as possible; I can live with a limited number of Kaidan Alenko moments) and I want to see them have closure with their issues.   I want every ally who doubted me (I'm looking at you, Council) to grovel at my feet.  And most of all, I want closure with Liara, where I marry her, grow old with her, and have lots of blue babies (like I promised).

Bioware, you convinced me, via both advertising and the first two game endings, that happiness and success were within my reach if I did everything right.  Heck, the trip to the collector base was clearly suicide (and labelled as such!), yet you let me bring everyone back home.  I expect the same from the third game as well, with the bonus of a warm and fuzzy epilogue because my Shepard's adventures are finally over.

Anything less is just mean.

[vallore]

Mass Effect 3 is a superb game in a superb trilogy. The story is mostly excellent, the characters, in particular, are engaging, the different vistas displayed are often quite beautiful, the voice acting magnificent, game mechanics are fun, the music epic, and I would have no doubts at putting it at the very top of my all-time favorite games, but for the ending.  

Now I want to apologize for the wall of text, but I felt it was unavoidable. So, without further delay, here’s my contribution to the analysis of the problem:

The Problems:


The inevitability of Shepard’s death.


When I first played DA:Origins, I choose for my Warden the Ultimate Sacrifice. It made sense for that character, and the way I had played it.

And it worked. The end was moving, bittersweet, rewarding. I couldn’t wait to play it again, (but took the Dark Ritual instead this time). I fully expected/hoped something similar would be present in ME3.

But Mass Effect 3 was different; there was no choice. Death was inevitable. (the “last gasp” Easter Egg doesn’t dispel this feeling for me).

Death didn’t result of the player’s choice (say, as it would have been if it was to save Anderson, per example), nor was it a result of previous (optional) actions took by the player during the game; (actions that would have forced the character into such a situation). No, I was entirely out of the player’s hands; imposed from above. An unavoidable doom, or a punishment from a god-like figure, for daring to disrupt it’s plans.

And, unfortunately, it felt unrewarding, bitter, with no sweet in it - A defeat not just for the character but for the player - I felt no desire to play again, despite having several imported Shepard’s waiting.

I believe that, by being unavoidable, Shepard’s death becomes unsatisfying for the player.It diminished incommensurably the positive impact that a willing sacrifice, (or at least one resulting from the player’s decisions), would have had.


Is Sacrifice the main theme of Mass Effect 3?



I don’t pretend to know better than the authors what theme their story had, far from it. But I can write about what theme I -  as a player -  felt most strongly present the entire trilogy, almost to the very end. And that was not that of Sacrifice, but rather Unity.

Personally, I felt that Mass Effect trilogy was all about Unity.  How Shepard forged a group of individuals from different species into a “band of brothers” in ME1, and how it repeated it in ME2, and how those “lucky few” rose above an impossible challenge – twice - and saved the day. Then in ME3 I felt that Shepard went further than that, and repeated it galaxy wide, mirroring the microcosm that was his small group in the macrocosm that was the galaxy.

But this time there was no victory through Unity, or even the possibility of such. Ultimately, everything was up to the decision of a god-like figure. We only got to chose between what It allowed, and on It’s own terms.

In the end, Shepard was alone, and Unity, that allowed the triumph of Hope before, appears to mean nothing. Where once stood Defiance, the “I’ll find another way,” supported by the bound of Loyalty and Purpose of her brothers and sisters-in-arms, there is only a defeated acceptance of inevitability. A choice between three lesser evils imposed from above, to avoid a bigger one, (or at least a more pressing one), and the unnecessary death, that feels like the punishment of those ancient Greek heroes that dared to challenge the gods.

The Many Shades of Grey

I like the idea of a bittersweet ending. But there is a caveat:

What for one person may taste bittersweet, may very well be to another’s like an unholy mix of cod liver oil & vinegar.

 A serious problem I perceive about Mass Effect 3 Endings is that, despite allowing three different fates for the Galaxy, it allows but one fate for the main character and her companions, (with absolute minimum variations). Since the main character and his companions are at the very core of the player’s experience of the series, it may be impossible for some, (or many), to enjoy the single ending that is provided for the character, (again, I find the differences presented at this level minute).

Possible Solutions:

I believe it becomes essential to provide clear different character endings: were the fate of Shepard can go from the grim-dark, (and at a character level, the current ending does feel that way to me), to more lighter shades of grey,  where the character may be allowed to live, and even rejoin companions and LI.

The possibility of a little personal victory; that of survival and rejoining friends and LI, can go a long way to dispel the depressing feeling of doom and gloom resulting from the current ending. And may allow to reflect other themes present in the story that, I believe, were equally important for many players.

Finally

I want to express my thanks to the Mass Effect team, for creating such an engaging world and characters and sharing them with us. Fact is, if this game wasn’t so exceptional, I wouldn’t care about the ending. So, my applause and thanks to you.



Vallore

[Brannik]

IDEA FOR NEW ENDING: Takes place right after Shepard activates the crucible device. Perspective switches to the the intense fighting everyone on the planet is doing from each of the comrades perspectives ( Garrus, Jack, Wrex, EDI, etc ). The ground forces are being severely pushed back and overwhelmed. Each of your comrades are on the verge of being killed or overwhelmed when a shattering pulse encompasses the entire system. A sound something like the Reapers make magnified a hundred times.

In an instant every Reaper vanishes, and the Crucible along with them. Everyone begins to celebrate until they realize Commander Shepard has gone missing with the Crucible..

The remainder of the Mass Effect 3 Ending is a statue being erected in honor of Shepards Sacrifice. Pans to an awards ceremony where Ashley is being given command of the Normandy, then off to Garrus who is now a General addressing legions of soldiers, Tali walking through one of the first towns her people built on their homeworld, Wrex raising his first born child genophage free alongside his wife and the entire Krogan army yelling in excitement, Jack and the kids helping rebuild, Jacob at the Citadel Hospital leaning over his wife and new born child... ( Story varies according to choices but you get the idea.. )

Mass Effect 4 can delve into Shepards disappearance, and the search to find him/her. Majority of people believe Shepard is dead along with the Reapers. Mass Effect 4 you could play someone of importance who either knew Shepard, or looked up to Shepherd and wasn't going to just let things be until Shepard's Disappearance or Death is answered. Also there's still the impending threat of the Reaper's. Are they destroyed, or merely delayed?

OPPORTUNITY: If Writers decide to incorporate Shepard being found again, Mass Effect 5 could put Shepard back at the helm as the main character AND feature a NEW companion whose story was decided in Mass Effect 4. The main character you created to find shepard in Mass Effect 4 joins Shepard as your first customizable created companion in Mass Effect 5.

Modifié par Brannik, 23 mars 2012 - 03:39 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

In relation to the planned ending clarification I have a few ideas depending on whether there are plans to continue the series beyond ME3;

The epilogue/ clarification DLC- Let us create a new character using the templates found in multiplayer. Depending on how you want to do it, people have been wanting more closure for the characters, so I propose that we play as a Spectre or N7 Operative who goes on a rescue mission for the Normandy crew or perhaps took command of it during the battle.

The start of the expansion can introduce our character in some cool ways; maybe we were fighting on Earth when the retreat was sounded, and we can view the aftermath through the eyes of someone there and so on,

Another idea in relation to the Normandy is we could play as a Commander who escaped a destroyed cruiser via shuttle or escape pod that was picked up by Joker. We assume command, and when the Crucible activates we give the order to retreat when we see it is destroying nearby ships.

All I really hope is that we get some cool gameplay and not just a 'story-book' epilogue involving the characters. If there are plans for a ME4 in the future that takes place after these events I want to see some foreshadowing and a picture of what the galaxy will look like whenever that game would take place.

[withneelandi]

Here's my feedback:

I had a really good time playing through mass effect 3, I thought the combat was hugely improved from me2, which in turn was a massive step forward from mass effect 1. The customisation of powers, weapons and armour was just right for me in terms of detail and helped me to play my character the way that I wanted to play him.

The galaxy at war idea was good, the multiplayer seemed to integrate well with the single player campain and I liked extras like datapad. Nice idea and well implemented.

Storywise, I found the vast majority of the game top class, some really exciting and emotional moments, for example the fate of the Doc when curing the genophage, the bluff with Kasumi, the scene with Garus on the citadel shooting cans and so forth, really hooked me in. A special mention to the potline involving the Geth and Quarians, the eventual peace and return home, cooperation and tali's reaction/ the sacrifice of Legion was very moving and well written, I had a lump in my throat.


If you had asked me for an overal impression of the game before the final mission it would have been overwhelingly positive, I played the game for about 40 hours and 39 and a half were superb.

Sadly, you can probably tell there is a massive "but" coming. I am not the first to say it, but the last 30 mins of the game was very poor. I'll try my best to be as constructive as possible and explain why it put a negative tint on the whole game for me.

Playing Mass Effect from start to end takes well over 100 hours. 100 hours of making choices and investing in characters and the story presented. The difference between a RPG style video game and a novel in narative terms is that the player has a part in shaping their own narative experience, the problem with the ending of mass effect 3 is that it seemed to negate the players involvement in the narative.

I was utterly engrossed in the games finale up until the famous reaper lazer hit. From that point on the game stopped working for me as a succesfull video game narrative.

Firstly as an event it broke the flow of the story, I think it might be something to do with changing the movement of shepard, the over all presentation, everything went dark and I imediately felt less in controll of the character, less in controll of events and as such less immersed in the narative. In some games and in other circumstances this could be a valid and usefull story telling method but here it really didn't work.

To put it simply, I no longer felt that this was "my" Shepard. The opening had a similar problem, while for the rest of the game I felt I was playing as the character I had developed for 3 games, with the guidance of the developers. The nature of the 3 choices presented unfortunately seemed to utterly negate the previous 100 plus hours of story and choices. I was incredibly happy and moved to have united the Geth and Quarians, proving that organics and synthetics could cooperate, only to be told "sorry" can't happen. The Doc sacrificed himself to cure the genophage and broker cooperation between the Turian and Krogans seemingly for nothing.

The star child was an unfortunate plot device and felt tacked on and contrived, the next step of evolution and monolith shaped floating space station above earth, was a nod to 2001 and in some ways that was nice, but it felt out of place as the ending to a 3 game story.

Finally the cut scenes did nothing to tie up the narrative, I think I can follow a story quite well, but i literally have no idea what happened. The Mass Effect relays seem to be pretty much gone whatever option you choose, but what effect does this have on the story i've spend 3 games caring about? If I destroy the reapers and Geth have I doomed the Quarians? Where are the supporting characters like Jack? Did she survive? I have literally no indication. Liara was with me on Earth charging the big blue light, I saw Garus on some tropical planet with Kaiden and Joker, how did he get back on the Normandy? last I saw of him he was being vapourised by a reaper gun.

I felt a bit let down by the end and its the second Bioware game in a row that this has happened with, after Dragon Age 2 which had a similar choice negating fatalistic ending.

In contrast, Dragon Age showed us the results of our action, in text form, but thats ok. As such I've played that game inside out to see how things turn out when I do things differently.

I share the concerns the writers have about artistic integrity, and I hate the idea of changing an ending because of a moaning fanbase. I don't even know if I think they should change it on principal. However, writers need to understand the nature of the medium they are working with, In a film or book this end may have worked better as the viewer/reader is passive. In a video game if you ask the player to make choices as part of a narative you have to reflect those choices in that narratives conclusion. In many ways this shows how video games as a story telling medium are still in the early stages of its evolution. The end of Mass Effect 3 shows me that the writers haven't quite got to grips with the tools and techniques needed to do it right.

I don't mean that as a personal criticism of any single writer but a comment of the state of the medium genrally. It is something that every medium must go through.

All in all, excellent game up to the lazer beam of doom, conclusion was very very badly done.

[savagejuicebox]

balance5050 wrote...

If you guys don't reveal indoctrination theory as your own I'm going to flip because it is a miracle of god how well it fits with all the clues left throughout the series. Seriously, I think I'll have to check myself into the local asylum.... The odds that you guys just lost all narrative direction and common sense in the last ten minutes, and weren't planning this massive troll, just seems insane.

It would just be beyond reason to me and my mind would be broken... I want to believe you guys... but I'm losing more hope every day...

'

I agree, it has to be on purpose.

[savagejuicebox]

Silverreflection wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

If you guys don't reveal indoctrination theory as your own I'm going to flip because it is a miracle of god how well it fits with all the clues left throughout the series. Seriously, I think I'll have to check myself into the local asylum.... The odds that you guys just lost all narrative direction and common sense in the last ten minutes, and weren't planning this massive troll, just seems insane.

It would just be beyond reason to me and my mind would be broken... I want to believe you guys... but I'm losing more hope every day...

After writing 2 1/2 pages about how I feel about the game and ending and series, and spending hours reading that other people share the same thoughts, that thought above is what keep me up last night. I literally only slept for 5 hours because I couldn't get that same idea out of my head.

I realized that I was not grasping at straws trying to justify the ending, I was grasping at straws to justify how bioware thought this would fly. I can fully believe that indoctrination threory is correct and that the real ending is still to come because that is something that is that would fit with the story and live up to their incredible emphasis on good story telling.

What is hard to believe is that they thought they could do this without this kindof crazy recoil from the fans. I said it in my last post as well, but the PR for their explanation will have to be superb. Because at the end of the day, most of the big ME fans have spent around 200 dollars on the games and DLC, and we would happily do it it all over again but to have invested time and money, and more than anything our emotional investment, only to be told "fork out 5 more bucks if you wanna see the ending" would be insulting. And you know what, you win, I would pay 100 dollars to get the true ending of this series if that's what it cost, but if it wasnt worth every last penny I would be insulted. So my point. Bioware if you charge me for the ending, it better be worth it. If it is, I will be absolutely ecstactic. I will be happier than you can even imagine, but if it is anything short of amazing it will be an utter letdown.

Also, has it been hard sitting on your hands during this time? I keep hoping that everyone at bioware is just sitting there waiting to tell us that the best part is still coming, but it must be hard to keep in while fans have written almost a 200 page thread and literally started a charity fundraiser for a better ending. I just hope everyone comes out of this looking classy..

I couldnt have said it better myself. I hope they are on edge just waiting to anounce the DLC. "Countdown to Indoctrination DLC"!!!

[bellerofonte125]

First i have to say that I really enjoyed the first part of me3. You don't have to visit all the galaxy to collect small mission, cause of the reapers invasion, and this is correct, is more epic!
The problem, i think, is the entire last mission. After the first wonderful, epic movie scene of the entire fleet arrive in the solar system, the rest is like a normal mission.
You have to destroy an anticraft reaper, defend a convoy and destroy another small reaper. That's it. You don't have to take any kind of decisions for space assalt or ground either or your companion. You destroy sovereign and saren, destroy collectors and unify the galaxy against a new enemy and, at the end, you became a normal soldier with normal tasks.
And i think that the three finals are too similar, but i also think that the final pourpose of the reapers should be a little obscure!
I WANT TO END UP WITH A THOUGHT TO EVERYONE. YOU THINK CORRECT TO CHANGE THE FINAL OF THE GAME. HOW MANY BOOKS, MOVIES OR VIDEOGAMES FINISHED NOT HOW YOU EXPECTED, FOR SURE YOU DON'T ASK FOR A CHANGE, YOU ONLY SAY "IT'S WONDERFUL BUT THE FINAL....". I THINK IT IS HUMILIATING FOR THE ARTISTIC INTEGRITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WORK ON IT.
SO I SAY TO BIOWARE AND THE FANS, DO NOT CHANGE NOTHING. ASK FOR A NEW GAME, MASS EFFECT 4, NOT A NEW FINAL

Thank you a lot for the entire saga.
Sorry for my english.

[Christianswe]

Why destroy the mass relays?? I never understood that choice... Even if the explosion is different then in ME2 Arrival DLC, than it still leaves everyone stranded in the sol system. And what does that do the the future of the mass effect universe?? Do the races in the universe discover how to build their own?? Hmmm..

[Eivuwan]

http://social.biowar...index/9851623/1

This link contains a great summary of everything that people said in this forum and in the media. It should be a sticky.