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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#4801
vancian-hero

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The rationale for the reapers was just silly and didn't make any sense when placed in context of the wider story arc from ME1 to ME3 itself. There were incidents in all three games that flat out contradicts the crucible entitys' assertion regarding synthetics and organics. If the decision was taken to drop the dark energy plot thread, you really needed to replace it with something a lot better than synthetics harvesting organics in a truly horrific manner to prevent them from being exterminated by synthetics. I mean you could state that the entity was a true believer in the "Fermi paradox" but Shepherd had demonstrated by his/her actions (particularly when playing the paragon) that this issue could be overcome and had in fact achieved this. Indeed simply by uniting the galaxy against the reapers, Shepherd could state with some conviction that the entity was talking out of it's ass :happy: Hell if you really wanted to be truly enigmatic you could have played the "berserker" card with an ancient race creating a machine intelligence to protect themselves from other sentient species - This race has long since been destroyed by their own creation or destroyed by their own hands and have faded into obscurity. The machines endured however but are locked in a cyclical core programme were they undertake the mission handed down to them from the time of their creation. I have always thought of the reapers as being very much in this mould - and many other writers have built on and expanded this concept first posited by John Von Neumann and later fictionalised by F saberhagen, these are Peter F Hamilton, Alastair Reynolds and Greg Bear to name but a few.

so if you want to stick by what you wrote, which I suspect was informed by Fermi, then you need to explain it a lot better and drop the silly "harvesting to protect them from genocide" explanation. Or you opt for the safer ( and more potential for ME spin-off) Ancient devices created by something even more Ancient than the races who got zapped in earlier cycles. This is actually hinted at in ME3 - I can't recall who it was, possibily liara - that there was possibly something else that was behind the Reapers, just as Sovereign was behind the Geth. We know that the crucible was incredibly old as well, built by previous races prior to their destruction.

It's important to note that most of the novels and short stories that have been written about self replicating machines exterminating organic life, rarely end well for all involved. and when you start peeling away the layers you find that a very unpleasant tragedy (in the classical sense of the term - serious and having magnitude) is waiting for Shepherd, so the bleakness of the choices faced by him/her are I think correct. The rationale for the Reapers isn't.

The end scene with the Normandy: Why was Jeff even trying to escape? Since we know the the energy from the gates was not destructive as in Arrival but converted through the crucible into a form necessary to control/destroy transform(?) the reapers - why did Jeff feel the need to take a Mass Effect gate (he must have been hovering close to one just as the crucible fired)  and try to get out of dodge - with certain crew members, among which would be one who was with you on the last suicidal approach to get to the citadel. And that Brings me to the Citadel. There were a lot of people on that construct - refugees being the latest arrivals - what happened to them? How many did Bailey evacuate? what about Kelly or Zaeed, they were in the refugee area when I last saw them. If it ended badly for them despite what you tried to acheive, we should have seen it, if anything to reinforce a truth that Shepherd had come to understand "that no matter what you do, can't always save them all".

I always enjoyed Mass Effect. I loved how decisions could impact on your game and follow you into 2 & 3. Even the small stuff brought a smile to my face. Conrad the uber-fan. Capt Kirrahee holding the line - Mordin doing an impression of him on the Normandy. Zaeed commenting that a decison to spare an Asari scientist working for the korgan warlord, was going to bite me on the arse one day. I laugh now, but I remember being truly pissed off having to wander around the normandy trying to find my model kits, and the Hamster - complaining louldy that people should put my sh*t back were they found it :P I even had to laugh when I realised that Kelly had taken my fish "well no one else would look after them!"  I was moved when Thane passed on which surprised me - it was a well done scene. Mordins too for that matter. So yeah It was a real  roller coaster, but it was an excellent trip. Shame to let it trip up over a bum note.

Modifié par vancian-hero, 23 mars 2012 - 11:23 .


#4802
RedNanaki

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There are sooooo many questions! Even before the deity of plot holes steps onto the stage!:D Appreciated if some of these could be cleared up.

I will be making a lot of references to the conversation between Shepard and the Catalyst and also the conversation with Sovereign on Virmire.

The Catalyst 
Is the Catalyst a deity? An AI? Both? Where did it come from? Did it elect to begin the Cycle or was it constructed specifically for this purpose (impose order on chaos)? The Reapers are its solution, but did it create the Reapers? How? Why does it call the Citadel both home and a part of itself? Is the Catalyst an AI placed somewhere within the Citadel? (Something that seemingly invalidates the entire plot of ME1.) Are the Keepers, who were completely ignored in ME3, somehow related?

The Citadel 
What is the purpose of the Citadel? At first it appeared to merly play a part in the method (mass relays) used by the Reapers to invade the galaxy each cycle and to dictate the advancement of spacefaring species, but now that we know that it's the home of the Catalyst, and also a part of the Catalyst... just what the frell is it and who built it? Presumably constructed by the originators of the Catalyst?


 The Crucible 
What exactly is the Crucible (aside from an obvious asspull)? Is it what the Protheans claimed; passed on from each cycle to the next with slight improvements? How could they build this thing without having any knowledge of the existence of the Catalyst in the first place? (See bottom link.) Why would thousands of cycle-generations create the Crucible to provide three resolutions to the cycle, one of which is to via space magic fuse every organic and synthetic into the same genetic framework? What? :blink:

Or maybe it is of the same Origin as the Catalyst and the Citadel, and acts as a factory reset so to speak? Catalyst says Shepard is the first organic to have made it past the space elevator stage, but why does it matter? How does an organic combining the Catalyst and the Crucible prove that the cycle has failed?

The Catalyst says: "The Crucible changed me. Created new... possibilities. But I can't make them happen." Why the hell not? Seriously?


 The Mass Relays 
Sovereign called the Citadel and the mass relays "the legacy of our kind" and "our technology", and it's pretty clear that they are there to ensure that organic life develops the way the Reapers intend, but the appearance of the Starchild and it calling the Reapers "my solution to chaos" obfuscates their origin somewhat; Reapers create mass relays and Citadel, the home and part of the Catalyst, but at the same time they are the Catalyst's solution to chaos? Uhm... did the Reapers also create the Catalyst then? But then who created the Reapers?! The chicken or the egg?

 The Reapers
Okay, so the Reapers are the Catalyst's solution to chaos; A way to impose order. The Catalyst's exact words being...

The created will always rebel against their creators. But we found a way to stop that from happening. A way to restore order for the next cycle. ... We harvest advanced civilizations, leaving the younger ones alone. ... We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form. ... Without us to stop it synthetics would destroy all organics. We've created the cycle so that never happens. That's the solution.

Each cycle, all advanced organic civilizations are harvested by the Reapers in order to make way for new life and prevent synthetics from destroying organics. <insert meme>? Why don't they simply wipe out advanced synthetics like the Geth instead of all advanced life if that's what they're so worried about? Or forbid organics from developing AI and destroy any who refuse to obey? Isn't that already a law in council space anyway?


A good summary of what's so silly about these plot elements. 


 This chasm of plot holes definitely needs to be filled. Indoctrination theory is actually a very useful and applicable handwave here. :D You could also remove the Starchild-form of the Catalyst from the game entirely...  It would honestly be for the better if you would just go back to the dark energy plot and weave it in with the Catalyst somehow. The name of the franchise is Mass Effect for crying out loud; Mass effect IS dark energy!:pinched: Also, there would be foreshadowing in the previous games...

At any rate, thanks for reading. Maybe it wasn't all that constructive, but at least it points out some of the core flaws in the Catalyst's reasoning. Thanks again for collecting our feedback.

Modifié par RedNanaki, 23 mars 2012 - 10:04 .


#4803
kimuji

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I'll repost what I said in a other thread, explaining my reasons to refuse to buy a DLC that only explains or clarifies the current ending and what are the 2 leads for a DLC that would worth it:

I don't want any clarification on how with the "green ending" total assimilation solves a community war that does not exists (synthetics vs organics), I don't want any clarification on why synthetic life would always try/want to exterminate organic life. I don't want any explanation on why IAs and organic life can only coexists if we merge them, which doesn't really mean coexisting by the way since the two become a new entity. Don't explain us why this ending means that different cultures or way of life are an issue that always ends in a full scale war or a genocide.

I don't want any clarification on why the "red ending" means "United we fall, divided we stand", I don't want any justifications on why the sacrifice of a entire race is part of the solution.

I don't want any clarification on why this is the only choices we got and why nihilism is the begining and the inevitable conclusion to everything.

In short, I'm not waiting after Bioware to find justifications for nihilism. Clarifying all this would just make it worse. Bioware crossed a line I'd never thought they would or could cross, I urge them to come back on the good side and not walk any further on that path.

* Retconning what happens after the death of TIM would allow to adress many plot inconsistencies and retake back all that nihilistically tainted dissertation we got for an ending. That is the "full fix".

* A "partial" still acceptable fix would be to only add a fourth choice: one allowing Shepard to prove the Starchild and all his nihilistic bull**** wrong, allowing Shepard to tell him that his "calculations" are wrong, his conclusions and postulates are wrong, that his solution was part of the problem and that the 3 new solutions are still part of the problem and won't solve anything. 

I don't want, and I'm sure Bioware doesn't want as well, Mass Effect to be remebered as a game spreading nihilistic and questionnable ideas.


Modifié par kimuji, 23 mars 2012 - 09:38 .


#4804
Numdenu

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OOH IDEA.

Remember the dark energy plotline? Well, if the Reapers aren't trying to stop its spread anymore...maybe the Crucible harnesses it somehow, and THAT'S how it destroys synthetics/controls Reapers. (I guess it could explain Synthesis Space Magic, too, but that's stretching it.)

#4805
PorkchopTheBat

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Legion is Skynet wrote...

I don't fully understand the requirement some people seem to have with Shepard getting a happy ending. This is not a guy who walks off peacefully into the sunset, never to raise a weapon in anger again. It's not how he's built. 

Let's take a look at the way a surprising amount of missions take place in the world of Commander Shepard, Man of Infinite Causes:

Volus
: I'm ruined! I left my galactic credit card on my Reaper infested homeworld when I fled to the Citadel, and now I must suffer the indignity of Reaper identity theft. *copious mouth breathing*

Shepard just happens to be walking the hell by on his way to deliver magnitudes of Cerberus assbeat when he overhears the plight.

Shepard: I'm sorry, did you say identity theft?

Volus: Um, yes Earthclan. Not that you would care...

Shepard: No, no, I do. Seriously. You wouldn't think so, but here we are. I care intimately about your credit card issues. Let me help. LET ME TAKE MY SPACESHIP CLEAR ACCROSS THE GALAXY to retrieve your lost item. Let me expose my entire crew to the perils of a Reaper infested planet, and put this entire war effort on hold for days, weeks, or months while I solve your problem. THE VOLUS NEEDS HIS CREDIT CARD!

Volus: Well, that's hardly necessary. And that can't be even close to an intelligent way for you to spend your time. There's.. there's a galactic war going on to determine the survival of all life right now. You know that, right? You're... you're leading that fight, aren't you? Seriously, don't-

Shepard: TO THE NORMANDY!!!

And there he goes again.

The point is, Shepard doesn't need the Reapers to fight. He never did. If we get the happiness and roses ending, it's a bigger lie than what we've already been dealt. Sure, the curtain call may come when he's chilling on a beach with Liara, but fast forward two years beyond that point. Liara is ****ing that she has to raise the kids alone while Shepard leads a heroic charge to a different solar system to help some Elcor find his missing poetry book, along with his codependant enablers, Joker and Garrus. Right as she's about to reach the breaking point, in steps Vega to comfort her in her time of need. 

Mass Effect 4: The Bitter Divorce Settlement

Seriously, this guy will fight until he's dead. That is the only thing he knows how to do, and it is the only thing he has ever been good at (dancing, anyone?). It's the only thing he's ever WANTED to do. He will never know peace, because his character rejects the concept. A strong death in the ultimate fight for survival is the BEST possible ending for a guy like that. 




YES!  Well said.  You, sir, are a genius.

Though, I gotta say, one of the things I really liked about ME3 is that the side quests seemed to have more galactic significance than in the other games.  And you didn't really have to go out of your way to complete them.  So I'd say it's more like...



Kai Leng:  Prepare to die Shepard!

Shepard: Wait...what's that over there?  Hold on a second, KL, while I check this out...WELL!  Whaddaya know!  It's that Volus's lost credit card!

Kai Leng: Crazy!

Shepard: I know, right?  Anyhow, let's fight!

WAR ASSET ACQUIRED: VOLUS CREDIT CARD: The Volus have decided to use the information on this credit card to prevent future Reaper identity thefts, severely hampering the Reapers' war efforts.




Anyhow, your main point about Shepard being unable to ever have a "happy" ending is completely true.  And
to make a "happy" ending would involve dismantling the entire game.  The dialogue with Mordin about his "running tests on the seashells," Garrus (the, as you so nicely put it, "codependent enabler") and his plans to retire on a beach, Tali's dream of a house on Rannoch, and even Javik's humourous musings about ruling the Hanar...these dialogue scenes have their power precisely because Shepard and the characters (and the player!) know that, in the words of J.R.R. Tolkien, "there is no real going back."  They are brilliantly bittersweet moments because you know that the characters who say these things know that there will never be such rest for Shepard.  Maybe we all want to believe it, but we can't.

The "happy" ending some folks seem to be calling for is what happens to Jacob.  He leaves the fight to make babies.  Does anyone really want to condemn Shepard to that same fate?  Really?  Is your Shepard a "Jacob"?  No.  Shepard is Shepard.   And so Shepard's only hope for peace is death.

Modifié par PorkchopTheBat, 23 mars 2012 - 09:39 .


#4806
Reign Tsumiraki

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Jessica Merizan wrote...

Thanks again for everyone posting constructive feedback (positive and negative). Just wanted to let you know that we're reading and passing things along, even if we're lurking more than replying :)


Thanks jess. I appreciate that you're passing on the will of the fans. 

#4807
MrAtomica

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Warning! This is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally long. And probably more than a little dry. Bear with me, please, it took some time to write all this down.

Here are some of my proposed changes, in a more understandable than usual (for me) format:

Destroy

Option 1 (Regression) - Agree with the Catalyst's notion that advancement of technology necessarily leads to synthetic life surpassing organic life. In order to "save" the galaxy, sentient technology must be wiped out. By releasing the energy of the Catalyst and Crucible, advanced technology is completely wiped out. EDI, the Geth, Mass Effect tech, the Relays, everything remotely related to the Reapers.

It's extreme, more than slightly reprehensible from a moral standpoint, yet still justifiable. Because the Catalyst may have a point. There is no guarantee that the problem at hand is solved; in fact, it is likely just as prevalent after this, as synthetics can and will be rebuilt. Yet, you give the universe time, at least in some of the outcomes.

Permutations: Depending on War Asset counts, different outcomes are reached.
  • Low (<3000) - Earth is consumed by the blast. The relays send out enormous pulses of energy, creating supernovas comparable in size and strength to the Alpha Relay blast. This is repeated in every system with a relay. Shepard dies, life is largely ended. Normandy is destroyed, your crew dies.
  • Medium (3000 to 5000) - Earth is partially consumed by the Citadel's energy wave. The relays do not go supernova, but they do cause widespread damage from the pulses. The energy takes out a sizeable chunk of each system, but leaves a fair reserve of life behind to carry on. The Normandy manages to take shelter on the far side of Earth, so the crew survives. Shepard is killed on the Citadel by the blast.
  • High (>5000) - Earth is fine. The relays disintegrate, but do not explode in any violent way. The pulse still wipes out all advanced technology, but leaves organic life behind. The galaxy is spared, and the Normandy survives with no trouble. Shepard is beamed back the Earth by some means or other, and survives.
The Reapers are destroyed, life is saved, but at great cost. Whether the ends justify the means is up to you. The Catalyst and the Reapers may not be correct in their means, but their purpose is certainly an interesting one. In the end, Shepard chooses to follow this purpose through to its conclusion. The ultimate goal of removing the Reapers is reached, though you acknowledge that they may have been correct. War Assets aren't really addressed properly here, but it is what it is.

Option 2 (Dissension) - Disagree with the Catalyst. Using EDI, the Geth, and the fatalism of his own argument against him, Shepard refuses to accept the Catalyst's destructive solution to ending the war. By dealing with the situation in a new way, this removes the need to sacrifice the Geth and EDI, as well as the relays. The problem of tech singularity is not solved any morseo than in the first scenario, but Shepard trusts organic life to adapt to the situation, and devise a new solution. He or she sees no benefit in killing sentient machine life.

The Catalyst, unwilling to be defied, calls Harbinger back from the main fleet to engage Shepard before he or she can succeed.

Again, war assets lead to different outcomes, after the main choice:
  • Lowest (<2000) - Harbinger easily punches through the Sword battle, and begins to launch an incredibly powerful indoctrination attack on Shepard's mind. Shepard is unable to resist for long enough to achieve his or her goal, and is convinced by Harbinger to commit suicide. The game ends with a slowly dying Shepard watching, in horror, as everything they have fought for is extinguished. The Crucible is destroyed, the cycle is carried out, and all that you know and love is gone. The Catalyst is the last thing you ever see, smirking down at you with a look of sinister delight.
  • Low (2000 to 4500) - Harbinger meets some resistance from Sword, and is delayed long enough for Shepard to get a hold of Admiral Hackett. There is not enough time for a proper solution, so Hackett devises a desperate plan. He will send the Crucible's core into critical overload, thus detonating the device and destroying the Citadel. Harbinger arrives at the scene just as the Crucible explodes, sending jolts of energy throughout the Citadel. Shepard dies, as does Hackett and everyone on board the Crucible, and the resulting battle claims even more lives as the combined fleet fights back the now weakened Reapers. In the end, losses are quite heavy, but victory is achieved. The Normandy sustains heavy damage from Harbinger's beams, and crash-lands on Earth.
  • Medium (4500 to 6500) - Harbinger is blocked by fierce resistance from Sword, and cannot reach the Citadel in time. Shepard uses the extra time to argue with the Catalyst about his assertions. Unfortunately, it becomes clear that he has no intentions of listening to reason, so Shepard contacts Hackett to propose a new tactic. Since the fleet is too heavily engaged to allow for a direct assault against the station, and time is running out, the two decide to overload the Crucible, and order the device to be evacuated immediately. Calling in the Normandy, Shepard orders Joker to carry Hackett and the crew to safety. Hackett tries to argue with Shepard about sacrificing him/herself, and Shepard is given the choice of either carrying out the plan themself, or allowing Hackett to do so. The Normandy collects the survivors, and escapes the area, just as reports come in that Harbinger is rapidly approaching. Harbinger breaks free from Sword and rushes to stop the detonation, but cannot reach the device in time. The Citadel is destroyed, and the combined fleet mops up the remaining Reapers will far fewer losses than would have been possible otherwise. Shepard or Hackett die, but the Normandy and significant portions of the fleet survive.
  • High (>6500) - Harbinger is blocked from attacking. Hackett reports that the fleet is holding its own against the Reaper armada, and actually gaining ground. Hackett and Shepard decide to divert a portion of the main offensive to physically destroy the Citadel's control area. The Destiny Ascension or some other large dreadnought leads a small strike force in to attack the Citadel. The Normandy swoops in, picks up Shepard and the rest, and returns to the scene of the battle. As they retreat, the dreadnought and its escort open fire on the control hub, causing the Citadel to fracture and the Catalyst to perish. The Normandy cuts into the fight and punches a Thanix round through Harbinger's shell, destroying it. The galactic fleet easily destroys the remaining Reapers, and the day is won.
This branch of solution really plays into the value of War Assets, and how they could affect the outcome of the final battle. Furthermore, this option could be made dependent upon Shepard's feelings toward synthetic life, as it would require him or her to be at least trusting enough of synthetics to allow them the chance to freely evolve alongside organics. Thus, making peace between the Geth and Quarians, and teaching EDI to view life in a new way would be necessary triggers. This is a good way to reward player choice. Since destruction is the ultimate end, this would suit a Shepard who agreed largely with the values of Anderson and Hackett.

Control

Option 1 (Continued Enslavement) - Again, the Catalyst's arguments hold enough weight to sway Shepard to choosing to utilize his presented choices. Though TIM was seen as a villain, and though Shepard feels that his methods were too extreme, the ultimate result of his conviction about controlling the Reapers makes sense. If a singularity event is going to come, the Reapers should remain, to allow the cycle to continue, if it must.
  • Fail (<3000) - Shepard grabs the power conduit, and sacrifices his or herself to gain control of the Reapers. However, something does not properly fire inside the Crucible, and the energy released causes significant devastation to Earth and the combined fleet. The Reapers are preserved, but much life is lost in the process. The Crucible's beam causes an overload of the relays, sending dangerous energy waves across the galaxy, damaging countless systems. The Normandy is severely crippled, and some of the crew dies from the rough landing on Earth.
  • Pass (>3000) - The Crucible fires properly, and the change in leadership happens without hindrance. The Reapers are placed firmly under Shepard's control, and are sent back to Dark Space, where they await the calling of their new master. Though Shepard has no desire to repeat the Catalyst's atrocities, he or she recongizes the value and necessity of the Reapers as a tool against synthetic annihilation.
Again, I'm not an enormous fan of this path. It's far too unclear as to how exactly Shepard would go about becoming the Catalyst, and it leaves too much room for corruption. However, it still provides a choice, for those who may agree with the necessity of the Reapers. Furthermore, it allows organic and synthetic life to exist in much the same way as the modified Destroy options, albeit with a greater sense of impending doom in light of failure. I do not feel that there should be more than one outcome for this choice, but that would remove any sense of having done something. The control energy wave really shouldn't cause any damage at all, but War Assets should count for at least a small something in every decision.

Option 2 (Sacrifice) - The Reapers are not a justifiable evil. In spite of their supposedly noble purpose, Shepard does not accept that the cycle must be perpetuated, even if this means allowing a singularity to occur. Rather than keep the Reapers in reserve, Shepard takes control for the sole purpose of ending the threat once and for all.
Because Shepard is choosing to defy the Catalyst's wishes, he uses mental combat to try and break Shepard's will. Asset values determine the outcome.
  • Fail (<5000) - The Catalyst bombards Shepard with images of a burning fleet, decimated by the Reapers. With each ship that falls, Shepard loses a measure of resolve. The Catalyst relentlessly assails Shepard's psyche with a perpetual nightmare of failure, every planet engulfed by Reaper forces. Finally, the Catalyst taunts Shepard with a vision of the Normandy being vaporized, its entire crew being instantly erased from existence. Shepard's will is broken, and he or she cannot resist any further. The Catalyst beats Shepard into submission, and wrests control back from him or her. The Crucible is unable to release the energy that it builds up, and implodes. The cycle continues on, and the Catalyst prepares to crush all resistance.
  • Pass (>5000) - Shepard successfully resists the Catalyst's attempts to retain dominance, forcing the other being into submission. After taking control of the Reapers, Shepard deactivates them completely, leaving them wide open to destruction from the fleet. In a final act of selflessness, Shepard release the Crucible's energy directly back into the Citadel, destroying it completely, wiping all trace of the Catalyst and the Reapers from the galaxy. The energy passes through the mass relays without harming them.
I felt that an option like this ought to have been possible. Not so much a peaceful solution, or an overly aggressive one, but a meaningful sacrifice. Instead of just flatly destroying the Reapers, and risking fighting a losing battle, Shepard resorts to giving his or her life in a selfless attempt to spare more lives. Ironically, this proves to be even more difficult, as the War Assets score must be markedly high to resist the Catalyst's indoctrination attempt. Still, Shepard's sacrifice would serve a noble purpose, in this case, and offers a more sympathetic view of a TIM-style ending. By succeeding, however, much of the galaxy is saved, while the Reapers are removed.

Synthesis

The current path leaves room for only a single focus - using the Crucible to obey the Catalyst's wishes. While combining DNA into a synthetic-organic hybrid may be one way to go about Synthesis, there should be another way to deal with the issue as well. War Asset scores, again, should play a part in how to achieve a specific ending.

Option 1 (Forced evolution) - After hearing the Catalyst's opinion, that Synthesis is the "pinnacle of evolution", Shepard is persuaded to agree. Though the end result sounds suspiciously like altering all life into Reaper form, the ability to combine the best parts of organic and synthetic life into a supposedly higher form is too tempting. Whatever may come from this drastic action, Shepard believes that lasting peace is far likelier if all life becomes uniform.
  • Threshold (4500) - Shepard combines his or herself with the Crucible's beam, sacrificing his or her life to bring life to a higher plane of existence. As Shepard's essence is absorbed, a powerful pulse of energy erupts from the Citadel, covering Earth and the rest of the Sol system. The Reapers, covered in tendrils of the power, retreat from Earth. The beam that fires from the Citadel travels through the relays, saturating the galaxy with a soft green light. The Citadel begins to explode, breaking into pieces and falling away from the Crucible. The Reapers, driven by the final will of the Catalyst, retreat to Dark Space, never to be seen again. The Normandy leaves the allied fleet and returns to Earth, its crew paying silent respects to their beloved Captain.
The actual consequences of Synthesis are not entirely clear in this scenario, but that may be for the best. The question of whether forcing all life to evolve at once is right or not, is not simply answered. Instead, let the player reach their own conclusion about the results herein. Since the crew of the Normandy is safe, the relays are intact, and Earth is spared, there is a sufficient sense of having actually won. Nonetheless, the fallout of such a choice is potentially enormous.

Option 2 (Coexistence) - Of all the potential outcomes, this is perhaps my favorite idea. Since we are now presented with evidence that the Reapers have never actually partaken in the cycle of their own accord, as they have always been under the will of the Catalyst, freeing them is a logical choice. They may choose to perpetuate the destruction of organic life, but they may also choose not to. The beauty of this option is that it affords a measure of respect to the Reapers, on account of their being living beings trapped within an obedient shell. For organic life, freedom is paramount.

To achieve this path, Shepard must successfully convince the Catalyst of the ridiculousness of its "solution". To do so, certain choices must have been made, and Shepard must have expressed a willingness to allow synthetic life the chance to coexist with organic life. By using the Geth and EDI as examples of successfully charting the personal development of synthetic life, Shepard begins to shred the Catalyst's foundation. The cycle, Shepard posits, is illogical and contradictory. The Catalyst himself, by his own admission, is (at least mostly) synthetic, and is utilizing an army of synthetics to annihilate the very life he claims to defend. Not only are his means wrong, but his ultimate end is also wrong. Synthetic life is every bit as precious as organic life; with the right amount of patience and understanding, synthetic evolution can lead to incredibly positive results (The Geth helping the Quarians rebuild Rannoch).

By proving the Catalyst to be incorrect, Shepard is able to push him into a new solution. Release the Reapers and allow them to make their own way. If they attack, so be it, but they are also capable of choosing not to. The Catalyst, dumbfounded by the optimism of the idea, wearily agrees to acquiesce. Giving the commander time to radio the Normandy and secure his or her escape, the Catalyst causes the Citadel to self-destruct, simultaneously releasing his grip on the minds of the Reapers. What happens next is War Asset dependent.
  • Low (<4500) - Harbinger, freed from the Catalyst's control, nevertheless refuses to allow peace to occur. Communing with his comrades, the Reaper general assures them that the resistance fleet is too weak to survive their onslaught. Some of the Reapers, those that do not wish to fight any longer for a cause they do not support, attempt to destroy their brethren. Unforunately, Harbinger's forces prove too powerful, and the fleet is crushed. The Normandy is destroyed by Harbinger's attacks, and the cycle continues on without the Catalyst. This time, however, there is nothing stopping the Reapers from utterly ending all life. Rather than leave primitive organic species to their own designs, Harbinger announces that he has no wish to allow any life, primitive or no, the opportunity to rebuild. Everything, he claims, must be purged.
  • Medium (4500 to 6500) - Harbinger chooses to continue the mission of the Catalyst, and attempts to sway his forces to the same conclusion. Many of the remaining Reapers side with him, but a comparable amount choose instead to resist him. These Reapers, inspired by the show of incredible unity from the combined fleet, turn on their former allies en masse. The ensuing chaos is brutal and bloody. The fleet eventually wins, but the devastation is horrifying. The Reapers' civil war has torn apart the landscapes of many planets, and filled space with huge amounts of debris. Still, the galaxy is saved. The Normandy survives, as do the relays, and life is free of the Reapers.
  • High (>6500) - Harbinger is given pause by the enormous force opposing him. The allied fleet contains representatives from every race across the galaxy, and remains more than large enough to cost the Reapers heavy losses. Conversing with his allies, Harbinger comes to the conclusion that organic life is worthy of continued existence. The proof lies in the indomitable will and steely determination of Sword and Hammer, as well as the reports of fierce resistance from other theatres. The Reapers break off the attack, and Harbinger communicates with the Normandy directly, leaving the choice of how to proceed up to Shepard. At this point, Shepard is left with three distinct options -
1. Renegade: Convince the Reapers to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of the galaxy. Rather than destroying them outright, Shepard tells Harbinger to let go of his twisted form of existence and find rest in the oblivion of death. The Reapers, led by Harbinger, willingly submit themselves to Shepard's directive. One by one, the massive machines detonate their cores, releasing their essence into the void of space. This end is violent and extreme, but safe. The Reapers can never again become a threat to galactic civilization.
                            
2. Neutral: Tell Harbinger to return to Dark Space, leaving organic and synthetic life to their own devices. Agreeing, the Reapers slowly leave the galaxy, massing near the far reaches of space to begin the long journey back to their point of origin. As a final farewell, Harbinger pays his grudging respect to his adversary, warning Shepard that whatever peace may come from this, it is not a certainty. The dire events predicted by the Catalyst may yet come to pass, and the Reapers will no longer meddle in the affairs of organics even if they do. From this point on, life is to fend for itself. Shepard acknowledges the danger, but remains resolute.

3. Paragon: Shepard believes so strongly in the notion that all life has value, regardless of its appearance or history, that he or she proposes that Harbinger and the Reapers atone for the sins they committed beneath the Catalyst. They are to remain in the galaxy, and integrate themselves into organic society, with the goal of improving the life of both organics and synthetics. The vast amounts of knowledge possessed by each individual Reaper open up near unlimited possibilities for advancement of life, and the wisdom that has come with years of accumulated consciousness provides the means to judiciously make use of said knowledge. Intrigued by this proposal, Harbinger agrees to Shepard's request, for the time being. He and his ilk decide to spread themselves across the galaxy, attaching themselves to pockets of life everywhere, sharing their experiences and power with their living counterparts in an attempt to correct the looming threat of technological singularity. This avenue is far brighter, at face value, than convincing the Reapers to commit mass suicide. On the other hand, however, this also carries the capacity for the Reapers to become a threat once again. There is little guarantee that their cooperation will last, nor is there any evidence that their help will be of any use. Ultimately, though, Shepard strongly feels that this path is the most promising for a brighter future. The wounds of the Reaper War will persist for long after, but the progress that comes will help to assuage that to some extent.

Refusal

Much of Mass Effect 3 is devoted to the construction of the Crucible. Yet, this device should not have been the only means of victory. Though there is a pervading theme of the Reapers being "too powerful" to fight conventionally, their advantages are actually slimmer than is presented. At its core, the Reaper fleet is more deadly in an individual sense, but it is not invincible. For a Shepard who has no desire to deal with the Catalyst, and no wish to unleash the Crucible, winning the war through force of arms *must* be an option. This is the classic "massive space battle" wish, and it is a justifiable one. However, because the Reapers are incredibly powerful, this option should only be available at much higher levels of total asset value.
After the Catalyst is finished speaking to Shepard, he or she can walk back to where the elevator carried them up, and communicate with Hackett. At this point, he must be convinced of the viability of conventional warfare. If Shepard has collected enough assets, Hackett cautiously decides to trust the commander's judgement. This conversation could easily be a Paragon or Renegade check, and also based on Reputation score.
  • High (5000 to 7000) - Shepard manages to talk a stubbornly unwilling Admiral Hackett into removing the Crucible from the Citadel, and instructing the combined fleet to hold their ground. The ensuing battle is nearly lost, as the Reapers seem incapable of being pushed back. With a sudden surge, however, allied forces gain momentum. Thousands upon thousands of ships and lives are lost to the ultimate victory, but the Reapers are beaten without the help of the Catalyst or the Crucible. Much of the galaxy suffers horrific amounts of damage, and many planets are scarred by the fighting. But the organics have won on their own terms. Part of living is being free to choose your own path, and Shepard has carried this proverb to fruition. History will not remember the outcome of the Reaper War as a "win"; the cost of both lives and livelihoods is too great to even consider such a pat statement. Yet, life goes on.
  • Insane (>7000) - Admitting that the allied fleet is far more impressive than anyone could have dared to hope, Hackett is in careful agreement with Shepard's assessment of their chances. Removing the Crucible, he orders the galactic fleet to engage the Reapers in straight combat, as the cost of using the Crucible (and trusting the Catalyst) is simply too great to justify. Shepard has assembled such a robust fleet that the Reapers begin to wither under its combined assault. Motivated by the tremendous gain in headway, the fleet cuts a swathe through the Reapers, and surges into the remaining enemy ships. On the ground, row after row of disparate races come together to destroy the encroaching Reapers in a steady hail of gunfire, biotics, and artillery. Losses are heavy, but the Reapers are broken by the incredible show of strength from the galactic community. The Normandy flits in and out of combat, blasting chunks out of Reaper armor, steadily carving her way through the melee. When the last Reaper has been taken down, the Normandy docks with the Crucible, and collects Hackett. When the admiral and Shepard have exchanged congratulations, the Normady returns to Earth.
______________________

Well, that's all of them. I put a lot of time into this, so I hope someone bothers to read it. This is how I imagined the game should have ended, with various choices to be made, each with positives and negatives. The outcomes, as they are, allow for a full spectrum between utter defeat and total victory. Some may find the "lack" of sacrifice insulting in some of the higher asset ends, but this should not be an issue. In order to collect so many assets, a player must have put a considerable amount of time and thought into playing the game. In that case, we'd like to feel like we actually won, not like we reacted to what the Catalyst told us to do. His options weren't necessarily bad, but they shouldn't have been the only choices. I feel that it is a betrayal of Shepard's character to expect him or her to simply lie down and accept what they are told. That is not how we have dealt with the Reapers in the first two games, and it seems just as wrong now. My options at least give Shepard (and the player) the feeling that, if they made enough effort to collect their strength, they can make a better tomorrow.

Speaking of which, the War Assets system needs an overhaul. Get rid of Galactic Readiness. It's a contrived system implemented purely with the goal of forcing people into playing multiplayer. This feels too much like a DLC pitch, and not like a fun diversion. Multiplayer is simply not the focus of Mass Effect, and that should be reflected in the singleplayer portion. By getting rid of Readiness, or even allowing us to raise it by completing multiplayer-style sessions in the singleplayer galaxy (maybe have N7 missions contribute to Readiness, instead?), players wouldn't feel so betrayed - after all, we were promised that multiplayer would not encroach on singleplayer.

In the end, though, I'm still more concerned about changing the endings. Look at my ideas, and maybe I can provide a helpful thought or two. I don't claim to be wise in the ways of writing, but the overall themes of each of my proposed endings mesh well with your artistic vision. These would not require as major an alteration as Indoctrination Theory or scrapping the entire Earth mission. If anything, you could just add on to your existing ideas.
Sorry for the poor formatting! :o

EDIT: My friend rightly pointed out the huge leap of faith present in the Paragon version of the Coexistence ending. I had thought about this, but wasn't able to make any meaningful justification for why anyone would accept working with them. However, as I reminded him, the galaxy has taken Shepard on faith before. If the Rachni were released, the Council lets this potential atrocity go with little more than a slap on the wrist. In fact, there are many things that Shepard does which do not appear to be wise. Nonetheless, the galaxy trusts him or her.

So, it may not be totally necessary to make up a logical explanation for this. The Reapers need not be allies, at least not all at once. People would certainly view them with repulsion and fear. This could be one of those speculatory moments, where the player's imagination is used to fill in the blanks. That's the beauty of leaving *some* room for interpretation in each ending, because it opens up a world of possibilities. The foundation of each choice is set (even total defeat retains the potential for life to survive in small pockets), but the future isn't written in stone.

Any further input would be greatly appreciated! Think of my post, and all the other posts here, as a massive pile of community feedback. With each new idea, we can refine and recreate what we feel would be satisfying. Not to say that any changes will necessarily be made, but I enjoy bandying thoughts around.

Modifié par MrAtomica, 24 mars 2012 - 01:50 .


#4808
thekelvman

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I have a suggestion for the part prior to the last part at the citadel. I believe that many people think that the last battle of the game, while difficult, wasn't all that special as it featured all the same enemies you've been fighting throughout the whole game.

So, I think that there should be a final showdown/boss battle with Harbinger. Make it like fighting the Reaper on Rannoch except have the fight happen while progressing towards the conduit and maybe add some different elements to the fight.

Maybe have more Reaper ground forces you have to fight on the way towards the conduit and have Alliance/Krogan/Turian + whatever assets (maybe Rachni) help you fend them off while you target Harbinger with the targeting laser. Once his health is all the way down maybe have a cutscene with the Normandy entering atmo to deliver the final blast that topples him.

Afterwards, have Shepard and co charge towards the conduit and a dying Harbinger put out one final blast that takes Shepard out. Maybe show Harbinger's "red light" pulse/fade out Terminator style.
Then everything can be as it is now with Shepard waking up and slow-walking towards the conduit (except without showing Harbinger flying away).

I believe that adding this would definitely make the game feel more complete in addition to doing whatever they need to do to the ending to make it more conclusive. It gives the feeling of having accomplished a big victory over an established enemy and players will feel better heading into the ending of the game. I feel that it would make the completion of the game seem less abrupt.

#4809
MC_Loki

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I was happy with the general framework of the ending itself.  Would I like to see Indoctrination Theory made canon?  Yes.  I think it would be a nice fan service.

What I primarily want to see in the ending if indoctrination theroy is not used is more meat and plugging of plot holes.  For example:  my love interest was in my squad on earth.  She's seen getting out of the crashed Normandy at the end.  According to what is heard/seen in the current game, it is implied my LI was blown to pieces by Harbinger like the rest of the assaulting force, unless I am oblivious and missed something.  It was rather late when I finished things up last night.

As another example:  what happened to the rest of my past and present crew if they lived up to the final assault on Earth?  If they all are dead in the end, that's fine, but give them their time under the sun.  Let us see them all get wiped out.  If they live through supreme acts of heroism, all the better.  Let us see them kick Reaper ass and walk with their heads held high into the proverbial (and moderately lengthy...) sunset.

That is, of course, assuming you guys aren't planning on using the "Maximum War Asset / Destruction / Shepard Lives" ending to launch into a new trilogy on next gen systems.  :bandit:

#4810
PorkchopTheBat

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Modifié par PorkchopTheBat, 23 mars 2012 - 10:03 .


#4811
Strik3r889123

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Bioware i trust in you! listen to me please! :)
I love too Mass effect universe to see it end like this!
Mass Effect for me represent a story of hope! A story in which, after all suffering endured and sacrificies made it reaches a minimum of happiness! these endings are too sad (and sometimes senseless ;)). our world is full of suffering so at least in a game special as Mass Effect i want a happy ending (at least in a choice)

I want who shepard reunions his crew and his love! (Liara <3)
BIOWARE LISTEN TO THIS FEEDBACK!
a hope to be happy(for shepard) in this amazing story surrounded by sacrifices and death!
and
honestly I hope that
with the destruction of mass relay will not end
this beautiful science fiction universe!
The races
of the galaxy must stay together...

Does
not matter if all this in DLC!

Modifié par Strik3r889123, 23 mars 2012 - 10:15 .


#4812
Vizanz

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I shot that keeper like 25000x before reloading my pistol

Neither the keeper nor my pistol should do that ! :|

Modifié par Vizanz, 23 mars 2012 - 10:06 .


#4813
PorkchopTheBat

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MrAtomica wrote...


Option 2 (Coexistence) - Of all the potential outcomes, this is perhaps my favorite idea. Since we are now presented with evidence that the Reapers have never actually partaken in the cycle of their own accord, as they have always been under the will of the Catalyst, freeing them is a logical choice. They may choose to perpetuate the destruction of organic life, but they may also choose not to. The beauty of this option is that it affords a measure of respect to the Reapers, on account of their being living beings trapped within an obedient shell. For organic life, freedom is paramount.

To achieve this path, Shepard must successfully convince the Catalyst of the ridiculousness of its "solution". To do so, certain choices must have been made, and Shepard must have expressed a willingness to allow synthetic life the chance to coexist with organic life. By using the Geth and EDI as examples of successfully charting the personal development of synthetic life, Shepard begins to shred the Catalyst's foundation. The cycle, Shepard posits, is illogical and contradictory. The Catalyst himself, by his own admission, is (at least mostly) synthetic, and is utilizing an army of synthetics to annihilate the very life he claims to defend. Not only are his means wrong, but his ultimate end is also wrong. Synthetic life is every bit as precious as organic life; with the right amount of patience and understanding, synthetic evolution can lead to incredibly positive results (The Geth helping the Quarians rebuild Rannoch).

By proving the Catalyst to be incorrect, Shepard is able to push him into a new solution. Release the Reapers and allow them to make their own way. If they attack, so be it, but they are also capable of choosing not to. The Catalyst, dumbfounded by the optimism of the idea, wearily agrees to acquiesce. Giving the commander time to radio the Normandy and secure his or her escape, the Catalyst causes the Citadel to self-destruct, simultaneously releasing his grip on the minds of the Reapers. What happens next is War Asset dependent.

  • Low (<4500) - Harbinger, freed from the Catalyst's control, nevertheless refuses to allow peace to occur. Communing with his comrades, the Reaper general assures them that the resistance fleet is too weak to survive their onslaught. Some of the Reapers, those that do not wish to fight any longer for a cause they do not support, attempt to destroy their brethren. Unforunately, Harbinger's forces prove too powerful, and the fleet is crushed. The Normandy is destroyed by Harbinger's attacks, and the cycle continues on without the Catalyst. This time, however, there is nothing stopping the Reapers from utterly ending all life. Rather than leave primitive organic species to their own designs, Harbinger announces that he has no wish to allow any life, primitive or no, the opportunity to rebuild. Everything, he claims, must be purged.
  • Medium (4500 to 6500) - Harbinger chooses to continue the mission of the Catalyst, and attempts to sway his forces to the same conclusion. Many of the remaining Reapers side with him, but a comparable amount choose instead to resist him. These Reapers, inspired by the show of incredible unity from the combined fleet, turn on their former allies en masse. The ensuing chaos is brutal and bloody. The fleet eventually wins, but the devastation is horrifying. The Reapers' civil war has torn apart the landscapes of many planets, and filled space with huge amounts of debris. Still, the galaxy is saved. The Normandy survives, as do the relays, and life is free of the Reapers.
  • High (>6500) - Harbinger is given pause by the enormous force opposing him. The allied fleet contains representatives from every race across the galaxy, and remains more than large enough to cost the Reapers heavy losses. Conversing with his allies, Harbinger comes to the conclusion that organic life is worthy of continued existence. The proof lies in the indomitable will and steely determination of Sword and Hammer, as well as the reports of fierce resistance from other theatres. The Reapers break off the attack, and Harbinger communicates with the Normandy directly, leaving the choice of how to proceed up to Shepard. At this point, Shepard is left with three distinct options -
1. Renegade: Convince the Reapers to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of the galaxy. Rather than destroying them outright, Shepard tells Harbinger to let go of his twisted form of existence and find rest in the oblivion of death. The Reapers, led by Harbinger, willingly submit themselves to Shepard's directive. One by one, the massive machines detonate their cores, releasing their essence into the void of space. This end is violent and extreme, but safe. The Reapers can never again become a threat to galactic civilization.
                            
2. Neutral: Tell Harbinger to return to Dark Space, leaving organic and synthetic life to their own devices. Agreeing, the Reapers slowly leave the galaxy, massing near the far reaches of space to begin the long journey back to their point of origin. As a final farewell, Harbinger pays his grudging respect to his adversary, warning Shepard that whatever peace may come from this, it is not a certainty. The dire events predicted by the Catalyst may yet come to pass, and the Reapers will no longer meddle in the affairs of organics even if they do. From this point on, life is to fend for itself. Shepard acknowledges the danger, but remains resolute.

3. Paragon: Shepard believes so strongly in the notion that all life has value, regardless of its appearance or history, that he or she proposes that Harbinger and the Reapers atone for the sins they committed beneath the Catalyst. They are to remain in the galaxy, and integrate themselves into organic society, with the goal of improving the life of both organics and synthetics. The vast amounts of knowledge possessed by each individual Reaper open up near unlimited possibilities for advancement of life, and the wisdom that has come with years of accumulated consciousness provides the means to judiciously make use of said knowledge. Intrigued by this proposal, Harbinger agrees to Shepard's request, for the time being. He and his ilk decide to spread themselves across the galaxy, attaching themselves to pockets of life everywhere, sharing their experiences and power with their living counterparts in an attempt to correct the looming threat of technological singularity. This avenue is far brighter, at face value, than convincing the Reapers to commit mass suicide. On the other hand, however, this also carries the capacity for the Reapers to become a threat once again. There is little guarantee that their cooperation will last, nor is there any evidence that their help will be of any use. Ultimately, though, Shepard strongly feels that this path is the most promising for a brighter future. The wounds of the Reaper War will persist for long after, but the progress that comes will help to assuage that to some extent.


I gotta say, I love this "coexistence" idea of yours...the Reapers are released from the Catalyst's control and then you can either negotiate or destroy them.  I think that's brilliant.  Shepard should still have to sacrifice him/herself somehow--to make this path more meaningful--but I think it's a smart alternative and I haven't seen anyone else post anything quite like this.  It would be an acceptable way to bring Harbinger back into the game without resorting to the "Let's have a Big Ol' Showdown with Harbinger" idea (I mean, we already had two one-on-one reaper showdowns...I don't really feel compelled to have a third!).  Very classy. 

#4814
chujwamdotego

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Please watch this


this is truly heartwarming piece

it explains best why many of fans ask for a chance to see the journey end happily

#4815
DeepChild

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chujwamdotego wrote...

Please watch this


this is truly heartwarming piece

it explains best why many of fans ask for a chance to see the journey end happily


That's really great.  Thanks for sharing!

#4816
MrAtomica

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PorkchopTheBat wrote...

I gotta say, I love this "coexistence" idea of yours...the Reapers are released from the Catalyst's control and then you can either negotiate or destroy them.  I think that's brilliant.  Shepard should still have to sacrifice him/herself somehow--to make this path more meaningful--but I think it's a smart alternative and I haven't seen anyone else post anything quite like this.  It would be an acceptable way to bring Harbinger back into the game without resorting to the "Let's have a Big Ol' Showdown with Harbinger" idea (I mean, we already had two one-on-one reaper showdowns...I don't really feel compelled to have a third!).  Very classy. 


You're far too kind, mate. ^_^

Like I originally said, I really like this notion of being able to deal with the Reapers in a unique manner. It just feels.....right, somehow. As though all of our struggles have led us to the opportunity for not just a reaction to someone else's whims, but a chance to make a truly profound choice.

Plus, like you mentioned, Harbinger felt like an afterthought in the original endings. There's a reason why I included that ornery bastard in so many of my options. He may be aggrivating, but he's still a heck of a lot more interesting than the Catalyst.

#4817
rodster32007

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Hey guys-
To the Mass Effect team. Ive been playing since day one of Mass Effect 1. Great job on a great series. The only issue I had with the endings to Mass Effect 3 were that you unite everyone and then they are stranded on Earth or in Earth space minus Normandy crew. It did seeem like alot of trouble to get everyone together, get the homeworld back for the quarians and everyone is stuck. In the grand scheme of things, i guess not a huge deal as I look forward to some DLC expnading the universe. Second issue I have is multiplayer. I would like to see multiplayer function like Gears of War 3 multiplayer, in which I would like to host offline, private matches with friends etc and AI without XBOX live Gold or connected to internet. I feel "penalized" for not using internet and then missing out on the tidbit of SHepard being alive. Again I think the Gears model is a great way to go. Other than that, great job overall to the whole team and I look forward to future projects.
 Posted Image
Rodster

#4818
LuckyNumberN7

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Kittenpirate wrote...

I want my blue babies.

That is all.


You are NOT the only one my friend... (;

#4819
rodster32007

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oh yeah...and I forgot the absence of Harbinger...was hoping for a big confrontation and more of the illusive man as well..like a boss fight

#4820
MrAtomica

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LuckyNumberN7 wrote...

Kittenpirate wrote...

I want my blue babies.

That is all.


You are NOT the only one my friend... (;


You guys got my vote.

#4821
Numdenu

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LuckyNumberN7 wrote...

Kittenpirate wrote...

I want my blue babies.

That is all.


You are NOT the only one my friend... (;


My only problem is, having romanced Kaidan, having blue babies would be really awkward....

#4822
redcarpet26

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 Rather than destroy the reapers or use the cruible at all, why not convince Space Fetus to delay the culling? Give us, oh, say 10,000 years to prove we can co-exist with synthetics? If synthetics get too big for their britches they can come and restart the cycle before said synthetics become a real threat of permanent organic extermination. Shepard could use the Geth/Quarian alliance or even just the fact you saved the geth, EDI, and the fact that they managed to get the crucible functional as proof that they are worthy of a chance to prove themselves. Reapers leave, galaxy rebuilds, shepard goes off with love interest, and plenty of room for a Mass Effect 4 staring some new hanar/elcor/volus protagonist or what ever. Of course, you would need 5000 or more EMS and needed to save  the geth to do it, otherwise you get the current endings (slighty tweaked to fill glaring plot holes like Joker running from the fight and your squadmates teleportation of course). Add a DA style epilogue if your feeling generous.

This seems like the easiest way to remedy the ending while not having to redo everything. You would really only need to get Mark Meer/Jenifer Hale and the kid back for some dialogue (which you would have to do anyway for other DLC). 

Were giving you options here bioware! We beg you, take one!

#4823
StillOverrated

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I still maintain that, if BW is going to stick with this ending, which looks like they are, they should give us the choice to question the Catalyst (investigate option plz) and reject its completely flawed logic and add at least three of the wildly different endings we were promised. I want my "THE CYCLE CONTINUES. YOU FAIL. HA-HA." ending and my "Yeah. Fine. You win. Go be happy and adopt baby Turians or something. Whatever" ending.
And make my war assets do something other than sit there twiddling their thumbs and having tea. ...Man, I miss ME2.

The ideal solution would be going back to the original Dark Energy ending. Though that' seems improbable, donnit?

#4824
MrAtomica

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I should mention, to whomever is still monitoring this thread, take it slow. If you like our ideas, and see that implementing them would be impossible without a considerable investment of time, then TAKE IT SLOW. All you would have to do is release a statement as to why you happen to need, say, a few months or even more than that. Give a meaningful reason (polish/large amount of content), and you'll win us over.

I don't mind waiting, nor paying more for substantially better content. I still wish that some of these ideas had been included to begin with, but I recognize that developing takes time and money. Just ask, and many of us will tell you that we have enough of both to spare.

So again, don't rush. Rushing to appease us is no more effective than simply communicating with us, then taking more time. This game could be the nearly perfected ending to a near-perfect trilogy. Hit the jackpot with the changes, and you would energize an incredibly loyal fanbase. As it stands now, that loyalty is taking a hit.

#4825
kimuji

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MrAtomica wrote...

I should mention, to whomever is still monitoring this thread, take it slow. If you like our ideas, and see that implementing them would be impossible without a considerable investment of time, then TAKE IT SLOW. All you would have to do is release a statement as to why you happen to need, say, a few months or even more than that. Give a meaningful reason (polish/large amount of content), and you'll win us over.

I don't mind waiting, nor paying more for substantially better content. I still wish that some of these ideas had been included to begin with, but I recognize that developing takes time and money. Just ask, and many of us will tell you that we have enough of both to spare.

So again, don't rush. Rushing to appease us is no more effective than simply communicating with us, then taking more time. This game could be the nearly perfected ending to a near-perfect trilogy. Hit the jackpot with the changes, and you would energize an incredibly loyal fanbase. As it stands now, that loyalty is taking a hit.

I second that, we have time, we are not asking for a DLC next week. Just keep in touch. The DLC will be "done when it's done".