7052 réponses à ce sujet

[JosieFrances]

Well im sure he know he's not dead but you know what I mean lol

[AlexPorto111]

Mass Effect 3 is my favorite game of this generation so far.I absolutely loved every minute of it,until the ending.But i am not a hater of the end,but i really did wanted more characters closure,especially with my LI.The Relays being destroyed and the catalyst was all fine for me,but more explanation on what the catalyst is and more details on the origins of the Reapers would be amazing.So,if Bioware is going to do something,i also want to have a possibility of Shepard and my LI to be together,same thing with the Normandy crew.

[jmosthaunted]

 No matter what way you look at it now Bioware are screwed. If they did intend all along to go along an indoctrination type route and surprise everyone at a later date with the real endings or a shock twist to the story via dlc, theres no chance anyone will believe that was the plan after all thats happened, it'l just be a case of "your only saying that cose of how much we pressured you into it" and if they dont change it then theres gonna be plenty of angry fans still wanting answers.

If the whole game was genuinly planting the seeds of an indoctrination, then bringing out the truth via later dlc (be it paid for or free) it still would have been a fantastic shocking twist to what has been an incredible trilogy of games. However, because bioware have basically been forced into making a public statement about it, whatever great ending they may have had planned, will never work now as itl always be seen as them changing the outcome to suit the public outcry

[JosieFrances]

AlexPorto111 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is my favorite game of this generation so far.I absolutely loved every minute of it,until the ending.But i am not a hater of the end,but i really did wanted more characters closure,especially with my LI.The Relays being destroyed and the catalyst was all fine for me,but more explanation on what the catalyst is and more details on the origins of the Reapers would be amazing.So,if Bioware is going to do something,i also want to have a possibility of Shepard and my LI to be together,same thing with the Normandy crew.

Totally agree with you, thats exactly what would make me happy!

[JosieFrances]

jmosthaunted wrote...

 No matter what way you look at it now Bioware are screwed. If they did intend all along to go along an indoctrination type route and surprise everyone at a later date with the real endings or a shock twist to the story via dlc, theres no chance anyone will believe that was the plan after all thats happened, it'l just be a case of "your only saying that cose of how much we pressured you into it" and if they dont change it then theres gonna be plenty of angry fans still wanting answers.

If the whole game was genuinly planting the seeds of an indoctrination, then bringing out the truth via later dlc (be it paid for or free) it still would have been a fantastic shocking twist to what has been an incredible trilogy of games. However, because bioware have basically been forced into making a public statement about it, whatever great ending they may have had planned, will never work now as itl always be seen as them changing the outcome to suit the public outcry

I do agree, but I think either way it doesn't matter, they should just bring DLC out and not state whether they planned it or not (if they did plan it) just release it and everyone will hopefully be happy, I have faith in Bioware though to do whats right, so I hope they do  

[jcmccorm]

I was surprised that the choice to purchase Fornax (magazine picked up on Omega) did not make an appearance in ME3. The posession of the item was a comedy GOLDMINE, which is the whole reason why I had Shepard pick up a copy.

[Mercannis]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

This video explains everything wrong with the ending, everyone should just repost it:

Yeah he explains it far better than i can.

[Frostfiend]

wigge1 wrote...

Suggestions for endings instead of current. Trying to stay with the overall themes of sacrifice, hope and uniting the galaxies warring species. Yes that inludes the reapers
Most art and voice assets should already be availiable
These suggestions starts at the rush to the teleport beam.

War rating 3 possible levels low / Medium / high

- Low war rating
Harbinger kills Shepards companions, show bodies
Keep as is up until Shepard tries to activate the crucible at the console and let shepard die on the floor. Show Reapers destroying the fleet/Normandy.
End scene with alien archaeologist (Yagh?) discovering Liaras time capsule, show Shepard saluting archaeologist and then the crucible. Roll credits etc.

This gives us a really bad ending but still with hope for the next cycle.

- Medium War rating
Have fleet bombard Harbinger, Harbinger beam incapacitates companions
Continue as is up till after TIM.
Move Andersson best seats in the house scene to later
Approach console, have Avina pop up and guide Shepard.
Avina may explain she is prothean guide for the crucible now that the crucible is docked. Tell Shepard how to fire teh crucible and that it will destroy the reapers shielding then have Harbinger start  communicate via Avina, the theme being the AI:s will kill all and the only option is to let the reapers continue

Paragon choise
Convince Harbinger and Reapers to back off and see how the new cooperation between AI and biologicals pans out i.e GETH EDI etc, show best seats in the house scene then Shepard and Andersson dies while the reapers are moving away, normandy survives fade to end scene

Reaper choise
Switch to low war rating ending

Renegade choise
Have crucible fire which takes out reaper shields, show battle with losses on both sides but reapers losing, show best seats in the house scene with Shepard and Andersson dieing. Here is a chance to have choises in ME2 bite us in the ass, if normandy lacks more than half upgrades from ME2 then normandy destroyed otherwise survive battle.
Fade to end scene

End Scene: the citadel presidium, statue of shepard, Avina activated by either surviving crew or if dead some alien/human/whatever. Avina says with shepards voice. "I am commander Shepard and this is my favorite statue on the Citadel. Then Avina gives a short obituary over Shepard and friends don´t mention specific crew members because some will be dead so it will be relevant in all cases. Roll credits etc

High War rating
Have fleet bombard Harbinger, Harbinger beam incapacitates companions, less damage to shepard by having normal armor and not the burnt version
Continue as is up till after TIM.
Move Andersson best seats in the house scene to later
Approach console, have Avina pop up and guide Shepard. Avina may explain she is prothean guide for the crucible now that the
crucible is docked, also remind us that the Citadel is a giant mass relay as per Vigil in ME1, Tell Shepard how to fire the crucible and that it will destroy the reapers shielding or that shepard may "join" the crucible to gain control of the citadel and the reapers. Then have
Harbinger start  communicate via Avina the theme being the AI:s will maybe go renegade and kill all. Harbinger has two solutions.

1 The Reapers will withdraw and watch if the GETH EDI experiment works, if not they will be back.
2 If shepard doesnt trust the reapers then Shepard may ascend to another version of the pinnacle of life by joining the crucible and the reapers

Paragon
Shepard activates the citadel as mass effect relay
and all reapers are shooting away into dark space,show
best seats in the house scene only andersson dying,  Shepard ascends to
the pinnacle of evolution as the reapers would say, Crucible/Shepard
shoots away and arrives into dark space among the reapers. The guardian
of the guards.
Fade to End Scene

Neutral
Convince Harbinger and Reapers to back off and see how the new
cooperation between AI and biologicals pans out i.e GETH EDI etc, show
best seats in the house scene only andersson dying while the
reapers are moving away, normandy survives, shepard survives fade to end scene

Renegade
Have
crucible fire which takes out reaper shields, show battle with reapers loosing badly, show best seats in the house scene
with Shepard and Andersson, only andersson dying
Fade to end scene

End Scene : the
citadel presidium, statue of shepard, Avina activated by alien/human/whatever. Avina says with
shepards voice. "I am commander Shepard and this is my favorite statue
on the Citadel. Cut to beach with everyone surviving sitting stunned saying we did it or whatever happy words, happy ending Roll credits etc

This is good. I would like endings like this. Especially love the use of Liaras Time Capsule in the bad ending.

Or something like this:
This is what I actually expected the ending to be:
http://games.on.net/...03-23/QR3lS.jpg Flowchart
of endings depending on ingame choices. If I get that ending I would be happy.

[Aver88]

We need some rough, chaotic companion. Right now all of them are kind and nice. We need someone like Jack

[DeiDreamer]

I admit, ME3 has to be one of the best games I've ever played. It sounds a little ridiculous to admit that it all fell apart for me in it's final moments. I can deal with a bitter sweet ending where Shepard dies and the galaxy is a little screwed without mass relays, there's always the possibility of discovering how to build more. I really liked the strong theme thoughout that you can't save everyone with Thane and Mordin dying. Its just there's lot of fill in the blanks moments after Shepard meets with the catalyst. Too many in my opinion:

1. What is the catalyst?

2. Why are these the only 3 choices when Shepard is one massive restriction overcoming machine?

3. Why is Joker and the Normandy running? How did crew members get back to the Normandy? For instance my team consisted of Liara and Garrus. When I tried the kill all synths ending they are both seen leaving the Normandy. Its good to know they arent piles of ash... but how?

4. What happened to the crew? This one's probably the most important to me. I didn't feel like there was any full closure with seeing a handful of the crew get out of a downed Normandy on an ambiguous jungle planet in the middle of nowhere with no dialogue. Where are the rest of my crew? Should I assume they're dead? What of all the characters that sadly couldnt be crew members like Miranda and Jacob? Its not just the team, what state is the rest of the Galaxy int that we've spent 3 games trying to save?

Brevity is good, if done well it can end a story perfectly. But this, this was just too brief. There's far too many questions left unanswered for full satisfaction. Some of these answers could've been intricately dependant on the actions we made throughout the course of the trilogy. Instead we are presented with with 3 linear conclusions each with an end cutscene varying in colour and the appearance of some characters depending on your LI and team members chosen.

You can do better than this. The whole 3 games worth of gameplay up until the last 10 minutes is a testament of how much you can achieve. We just need more closure for the characters we've all invested emotional attachment to. It sounds silly but its true for all forms of fiction, we all want to know what happens to our favorite and maybe less favorite characters. You raised the stakes with ME since we've had a part in shaping these characters through out our own stories. Any improvement to the end sequence would be welcome, in the form of DLC or a patch. I'd gladly spare a couple of quid just to get a better ending to be honest, but that's down to whether you feel we dont deserve it for free lol


I'm rambling and maybe this is a little harsh, but this explains things a lot better than I can http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/

Modifié par DeiDreamer, 24 mars 2012 - 01:51 .

[Mokuli]

Yeah. http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/


Everything that is wrong with this game is in the article in this link. Like so many others have pointed out, all the war assets that we bring to the battle, and all the choices we make up to the very last second mean nothing whatsoever. We get the same ending no matter what we did: Blue,Green, or Red (Pick your favorite color. It makes no difference). There was no final epic battle, and it seemed that it was basically a Deus Ex rip off. Where are our war assets? Where is option 4: Ignore the brat and go to war? The whole concept was to unite the whole galaxy, and in the end it doesn't matter. Get the minimum requirement in military strength, and go get your ending. There really seems to be no point in spending anymore time trying to collect any more assets. Just to get a 1 second cinamatic of Shepard taking a breath.

Final Fantasy 7 has been out since 1997. Amazon has 1300 reviews of the game, and it has a 4 and a half star rating. ME3 has been out for a grand total of 19 days and already has 814 reviews at Amazon with only a 2 star rating. It really doesn't matter what the "oh so mighty" critics say about how great the game is if the fans of a franchise don't even want to play the game anymore. I myself am having a lot of trouble trying to get back into this game to give it another run through. It has Good game play, but unfortunately, I and a lot of others I know play games and read books for the story! There are many other games out there that have a better combat system, and if I want to play a straight shooter, Call Of Duty and Halo have that taken care of. Thanks.

[LadyCass]

As this is the Suggested Changes thread and not necessarily the ending thread, there is the point that the whole Earth section could have been FAR, far more epic than it actually was. You get a survival mode fight (*yawn*) and get to talk to your squaddies (half of them through a hologram).

You know what was awesome, the fleet's arrival on Earth. That was awesome, amazing, an absolutely epic moment when you saw what you had achieved through the rest of the game. We could have done with a lot more effort in making sure every decision was underlined in a less confusing manner than "If you pause the video at 1:15 you can see a ship that looks a bit like the ships of this species you recruited but don't get another mention in the game ever after that", such as the Batarians, Volus Bombing fleet, Elcor. Hell, the only ones with a cutscene, that I got anyway, were the Quarians checking in. Of course there's a fine line between feeling they all mattered and sitting through five minutes of "Quarians, checking in," "Geth, checking in." "Turians, and our Krogan cargo, checking in.", etc. I still think that having a short cutscene of the various leaders (ala the Quarians, why do only they get it?) checking in would be better than Joker just saying it.

But that moment, just the crazy mix of ship styles and the sheer number of them, all coming as the cavalry due to your efforts - that's payoff right there.

How do I think this could be incorporated into the ending sequences? For a start, we know from talking to our squadmates at the end that there are squadrons of various infantry on Earth, doing their best to fight the Reapers. The best way to get the feeling that the rest of the game mattered, to give the payoff for recruiting those armies is to show the fleet and how it's doing, and/or to show how the ground war is going.

It also gives you an opportunity to show off the other characters which people like, the NPCs and such, and more importantly, the squadmates that you didn't take with you to the last battle. In ME2, they were holding the line. In ME3, they're still on the battlefield.

Note: There's nothing to stop each section from mingling with battlefield's where other races are already fighting. Let's try to avoid segregation. However, they transported seperately, so they would be unleashed seperately, probably. This also lets you provide ironic reinforcements to the different sections.

Ideas:-

Turians - Garrus (if not a squadmate), General Corinthus? (since they abandoned Palaven), Primarch Victus (maybe, he might be in the fleet instead), the Turian Council Member, any other Turians that we can shoehorn in there as cameos. A short conversation between the main two/three before the Turians move into the battlefield. Plenty of firing, maybe echoes to the Palaven Moon mission, very much traditional soldier tactics, similar to the humans.

Krogan - Urdnot Wrex (or Wreav), Urdnot Grunt (and his company, if they're alive), the Shaman from Tuchanka, anybody else I've forgotten? The leader will make a short speech "For Tuchanka!" etc., the usual sort of krogan motivational speech. Grunt can chime in with the reply, "For the Krogan!"("We are Krogan!(?)") then the rest of the krogan. For the rest of the shot, perhaps swing up to give a short of a veritable horde of krogan charging. Show that they don't worry about their numbers right now, and how much of a difference they make.

Asari - Liara, if she's not in the squad, Asari Council Member, Samara(or Morinth. Yes, she deserves better than being a Banshee without any choices made. Let her come out of hiding somewhere in the game. Personally I think she should have been at the monastery. Up to Bioware in whether Shepard's trust in her was at all founded, but I've rather have her inevitable betrayal and deal with it than have it all happen off screen). I'd have loved to have Aethyta there but she was in the Citadel when it was attacked, unfortunately. The Asari are commandoes, small in number and strong individually. Their intro to the fight would be very biotically flashy, the Asari Council Member should probably give a short speech about revenge for Thessia, make some references to the Goddess. Liara and Samara should be shown kicking ass, biotically.

Salarians - I see Kirrahe taking command of this, rather than the Salarian Council Member. The Dalatrass is certainly not going to be there. I think the Spectres along with the Salarian found in Kasumi's mission should also be joining this group. If Kirrahe is dead, then a short "STG, move out!" might be better to really underline Kirrahe's loss. Obviously, if Kirrahe is alive, he needs to make a speech. However, as they are not doing infiltration or holding the line, it'll be interesting to see how he shoehorns his favourite phrase in. Will also please "Hold the Line, Retake Mass Effect 3" people! Various parts of the STG/Spectres as they run forward will do different things, take up sniper spots, vanish, use their omnitools, take cover, backstab, etc. Focus on Infiltrator and Engineer attacks, and maybe have a few Spectres from various races doing individual things (biotic charge, singularity, cryo etc.) Could even see Kasumi helping the Spectres here.

Elcor - This only really needs a shot of them slowly walking into an already frantic battlezone while the cannons fire and whirr from their backs. One could say "Badassfully: This is for Dekuuna!" or something along those lines. Show their heavy support allowing soldiers to successfully retreat or advance (preferably advance). Perhaps even take out some Ravagers or Brutes. Let them be unlikely heroes for that brief moment. If you wish to make them be a little tragic, have some in the background fall to Ravager fire.

Batarians - Balak, obviously. This might be the most fun speech to write for the leaders. Essentially the message would be along the lines of, "We're not fighting to retake Earth, or for these stinking humans. We fight to bring eternal vengeance on those who destroyed our people, to deal them such a blow that they will never recover from".. etc. Proper vengeance stuff.

Rachni - You could easily have these come in onto the Krogan battlefield, just to underline how weird it is to have them both working together. Like the Elcor, I don't think they would have a speech, though having the Rachni Queen make another announcement of their crescendo would be awesome, I can't see her saying that to her brood. Maybe if she is with another group, they can ask if she is ready, and she can answer with something like that. Obviously this is another horde option, though I can see them being reinforcements.

Quarians and Geth - Most of the Quarians will be on the fleets, but Geth make fantastic foot-troops. A mix of the two groups would be extremely effective, with Quarians acting as support and repair. The pre-deployment conversation could have a simple conversation between the Geth Prime spokesperson and Admiral Raan, both marvelling at where they have come to and their hope for the future of their races. Perhaps have some points made about the fact that Quarians have always been symbiotic. Maybe have a guest appearance from Kal'Reegar (I'm not even going to get into having people automatically die in emails despite how hard you fought to keep them alive in the first place). Tali and maybe EDI (if not here, then she should join the Alliance below) should join this group if they are not chosen. I think they should help some of the Council races who belittled them for so long. Coin toss between Asari and Turians for me.

Humans - The only group already currently represented in the game, though they aren't really given a chance to shine apart from in the trailers. VS and Vega, obviously, though who to lead the charge is an odd one. Anderson is with you and Hackett is in space. Any ideas? Other NPCs who could be joining the fight are Zaaed, maybe Miranda. Obviously have Jack and the Biotic Squad, even if it's just a two-second cutscene. Maaaaaaybe Jacob, though I doubt it, he'd be more likely to be defending the Crucible. Humans attack in a similar way to the turians, nothing really special there, though the speech (why couldn't it be Anderson??) could be very poignant considering the battlefield.

Volus - Have the Volus do something with their bombing fleet. Just seeing one destroyer blow up because of their bulbous little fleet would at least make it feel like it wasn't a complete waste of time.

Drell - Similar to the STG, maybe even have them attack with them and the Spectres. Kolyat(?), maybe Feron (pleasepleaseplease). In fact, think these need to be folded in with another force, or just shown straight on the battlefield, because they simply don't have a strong spokesperson that we've already met. We know how Drell simply vanish into shadows, so an echo of that would be pretty awesome, especially if Kolyat does it for the first time.

Well, I think I've said enough so far. I think I covered everybody though. Obviously it's a lot of work and getting all the voice actors in would be a royal pain in the behind. But no matter what happens in the ending DLC (if there is one), to get it to truly provide feedback and a proper sense of payoff, you need to show the effects of the players' efforts - which in this case is getting allies. That means that they need to see the results of getting allies during something that matters.

Modifié par LadyCass, 24 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[jbeers115]

There are a number of things I would like to say. Oddly enough, though, it appears that someone else has already stated all of my opinions in a clear, concise, thorough, and constructive manner. So to start with, I'm going to link to that post. Link Also, I am going to thank SamFlagg for making the post, taking the time to put it together in such a thoughtful manner, and for summing up pretty much every problem I had.

So in order to simplify things, I am going to go through his numbers, and say what, if anything, I disagree with.

1) War Assets: I agree whole-heartedly on this. Not only was I hoping to see more Krogan charges and Elcor "Living Tanks" on the field, I was waiting for Geth Drops. And while I recognize that getting what he and I have asked for here would have lengthened the cut scenes in that section, it would have made for a grand finale that was suitably epic to both the quality story you have given us AND the effort we'd put in setting up that battle.

2) As far as the friends that died, I agree with SamFlagg. Each death was not only a piece of story-telling Perfection, it also helped frame how disappointing the ending choices were. I was actually ok with not having to assign squad members to various tasks during the finale, but I would have understood and enjoyed it had that happened.

3) I agree with this as far as the story. Only problem with that section was how slow you hobble considering that Medi-gel is a thing and that the omni-tool you use to administer the stuff is on the arm that was still armored. But the emotional impact was worth it.

4) Sam's argument nails this. I'd say more, but he has it perfectly, and anything else I could say would no longer be constructive criticism.

5) I agree with this. Given the nature of the relationship between the Catalyst AI and the Reapers, I can come up with several other options for how to deal with them that don't require Shepard die and can still give the Catalyst the desired result.

6) Not only do I agree with this argument, I want this. I want "retire on a beach somewhere with my chosen romantic interest" to be an option. After all the crap that Shepard had to put up with throughout the story I experienced, I thought that he'd earned a better retirement than to die with no grave and only his name as his legacy. I wanted to have the conversation where everyone lives and they start trying to figure out what to do now that the reapers are gone and the mass relays went with them and they turn to Shepard for guidance, and he gets to tell them "Don't look at me. You have plenty of perfectly good leaders that can work together right over there. I've earned my (retirement/shore-leave) and I intend to take it now."

7) This was basically an extension of his 6th bullet. Having said that, I agree. The closure wasn't there. This felt odd not just because of the connection we felt to the characters in the game, but also because giving us that closure is something that you folks at Bioware have shown you can do fairly well with other games you made.

8) I haven't seen all three endings personally, so I cannot attest to this. If it is a true statement, then I would have to agree.

At this point, SamFlagg mentions a few more issues here, and I can't really dispute them.

I would like to take a moment and say that I did love at least 99% of this game. Everything about this game right up until the conversation with the catalyst (including how we actually meet the catalyst, because I thought that was cool) was enjoyable. The combat was fun and engaging, the storylines were compelling, and the choices laid at our feet felt like they mattered. Right up until those final moments.

I have also noticed that BobbyTheI posted a link in his post right after SamFlagg's. The article that links to also gives a thorough discussion on why we fans want a different ending. And I think BobbyTheI is right. I hope the writers and developers all get a chance to see it and discuss it as part of whatever you are doing in regards to possibly changing the ending. Here's a properly tagged link to it: www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/6/

Thank you for giving us a great gaming experience. We have had a great ride over the past five years. I just hope you can work together and give us the kind of endings that people are begging for.

[DeadLetterBox]

A lot of people have given a lot of detailed feedback. I'm not sure how much I have to offer but this: I would have liked the ending if it wasn't the actual ending. If it had been one of those fake endings that psyched you out until it got to the real deal it would have been awesome (you did that in another game, as I recall, and it was amazing). As it was, I felt like I lost the game no matter what choice I made. I was one of the people who believed Shep was indoctrinated pretty much right away, and I am still upset that's where it all ended. While the end cinematic was playing I looked over at my husband and said "I lost. After over a hundred hours of play on one playthrough, I freaking lost the war." Except I was perhaps more colorful.

So, the change? My ideal change would be to pick up right where you left off, assuming that I was right about the indoctrination and the theorists are right that none of that was really happening at the end, just all in your mind. Then end the game on a note where I can feel like we actually achieved our goal. You guys have been good at coming up with those endings for years, so I've got no specifics. I just think you were way too fascinated with this ending. Would it have been cool in a stand-alone game with Dragon Age style angst? Probably. In the action-oriented, fight impossible odds and win Mass Effect? I just feel like the whole story told me that no matter what I tried or what I believed, the people who told me the war was just impossible to win were right after all.

So. If I could have whatever I wanted? You would turn this into the part of Jade Empire that seemed like the end, pick right up where it ended, and give us the opportunity to win the war. I don't think Shepard's (second and somewhat anticlimactic at this point) death is required to validate the hard choices that have been made (and I think that's a pretty obnoxious reason to kill off a character) but hey, fine, whatever. So long as the galaxy is unambiguously saved.

Although I don't think it's necessary for a three-game trilogy to end with the lives of all of our heroes totally trashed (or gone.) Seriously.

Also, the end of ME2 felt like you were fighting a battle, with decisions to be made and things to be done. This didn't.

I suppose what I would like to see the most, in a world where practical concerns aren't a problem, is an expansion pack. Pick up where you left off, find some way to deal with the indoctrination, and go back to the end battle except be a lot more ready. The foundation for understanding and perhaps even countering indoctrination must exist somewhere in the Sanctuary research. That kind of thing. I know that's probably not possible, but that would be pretty cool.

[Linnea Jenner]

I would like to start off by saying that the writers of Mass Effect are all very talented and have given us three great games to remember for years and years to come. I will for certain remember the 3 Mass Effect games fondly along with my memories of playing C64, Mario, KOTOR and other memorable games.

My one demand for the ME3 ending is that it is consistent with previous games/lore and free of plotholes. Anything more than that are preferences, for which I would be most grateful if they were fulfilled, however it's not a requirement. For example, whilst I'm not campaigning for the dark energy ending, I prefer it because I feel it is more consistent with the games/lore/story so far, I'm willing to accept that this ending only has two choices in favour of consistency. Other than that I'm happy to leave the details of the new ending up to the writing crew, after all they brought us the Mass Effect games in the first place.

Some fans are really into the indoctrination theory. However since the game was so good until we met the star child it would be another sort of disappointment if we were to find out that anything before the star child never happened. Some suggest that indoctrination started the first time Shepard runs into the child at the very beginning of the game.

My suggestion for the ME writers is to compile a list of plotholes and a list of unexplored lore and go from there. I'm sure the fans on this forum are able to help compiling these lists, and many have already mentioned such things in their forum posts. Below are my contributions, although they have probably been mentioned before.

Plotholes

• 40000 years ago prothean scientists broke the reapers link to the citadel so that they could not remote control it. If the citadel was part of the star child, how could he NOT notice and fix that in 40000 years, or at least send a message to his reapers saying he needed assistance?
• The star child claims that he kills organic species to stop all organic life being wiped out by their synthetic creations. However in the mass effect universe there is only 1 synthetic race, the geth, and they are in fact peaceful. In ME2 we learn that only a minority of the geth are actively hostile and that the majority just want to mind their own business in peace, a theme which is continued in ME3. So the only race in the universe at risk of extinction due to their synthetic “offspring” are the Quarians but that’s just because they initiated the conflict and have since been unable to find a new home planet much due to their unique immune system, so ultimately the geth issue is a unique problem to the far rim and does not affect the rest of the universe or other species than the Quarians. The child's logic is thus that the reapers needs to go in to wipe the whole milky way clean just because a corner of it looks a little dusty. And even if the geth were hostile they are a much lesser threat than the reapers.
• Mass Relays exploding should destroy numerous inhabited star systems, but this is not mentioned as a problem - is the child using Shepard to carry out his mass destruction?
• Is it at all possible for the Universe to get harvested with the current endings, even as a "critical mission failure"? If not, it's kind of a plothole that these powerful reapers can still be beaten even if you only collect minimal war assets.

Unexplored lore

• The Thorians and Reapers have too many similarities for it to be a coincidence. I personally find the Thorian fascinating, also the fact that they give indoctrination immunity is interesting.
• Liara is an Asari "pureblood" (not sure if this is big enough to be useful in writing a new ending)
• Haestroms sun/Dark energy

My personal preferences/suggestions, apart from the plot holes being resolved, is the following:

• Low war asset leads to universe getting harvested, medium war assets forces you to withdraw and try to salvage/hide away survivors from the reapers somewhere they won't find them, high war assets allow you to push the reapers back. (not necessarily defeat them) The two latter options would allow for a Fallout-esque sequel wherein the population is spread thin whilst trying to survive.
• War assets should not be affected by multiplayer.
• Some squad member deaths can be avoided, others can't. With several avoidable deaths I want shepards mental state to cause him to fail to question the star child and become indoctrinated in the end. Few avoidable deaths and Shepard dies on the citadel. No avoidable deaths and Shepard makes it off the citadel, whether the commander lives for extraction is another matter but this should be made possible although difficult.
• An epilogue for the universe/species and a more personal epilogue for shepard&crew.

But as a whole, ME3 was a fantastic game Just the ending needs a bit extra attention, but that is 5 minutes out of many enjoyable hours of entertainment.

Modifié par Linnéa Jenner, 24 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[chubbybkrx7]

Please get rid of the AI ghost on the Citadel. It is a horrible plot device that was left unexplained and felt out of place. Why introduce something like that out of left field which does not really explain the reapers at all?
I would have liked to see a final confrontation with Harbinger and like some other fans, have the option of using the crucible to weaken the reapers to the point of making it a fair fight for your forces (depending on your EMS).
Do NOT destroy the relays! It effectively end the possibility of anything occurring in the ME universe after the events of ME3.

[Chinirojo]

Could you explain us this "mirror" scene, please?

(Sorry if someones asked this before)

Modifié par Chinirojo, 24 mars 2012 - 03:05 .

[MOELANDER]

I would really like to see something like this poster suggested:
http://social.biowar...index/9792084/1
I would even pay full DLC price for it!

[LucyMaire]

Yermogi wrote...

BioWare, before I begin I just want to let you know that I have, for many years now, been a huge fan of you and your work. The writing, plots, and characters are almost always beautifully done and engaging to the player both in an aesthetic and creative sense.

I could discuss how the ending was unsatisfying, which it is, but there have already been numerous suggestions on how to fix this. They are generally all along the same lines and very interesting. However, I have some requests that do not pertain to the end.

Some of us who have this game are unable to properly engage in the multi-player fights due to various issues. Mine is that my Internet connection is not strong enough to play properly. It goes in and out fairly frequently, and I was very upset when I learned that, contrary to official statements, you DO have to do multi-player in order to get the Secret Ending for the game. With my current Internet situation, this is just not a possibility at the moment. Please change it so that you do not need to play online with others to enjoy the full experience.

Secondly, I would like very much to see more content including squad members from Mass Effect 2. In that game players invest heavily in the squad members problems and lives, and as a result become very attached to them. But in Mass Effect 3, you see very little of most of them, and it is upsetting, especially considering that the Shadow Broker DLC added so much more information to their lives. It seemed like they were going to play important roles, when they were limited to very short parts. I find this unfair to the characters and their writers and voice actors, not to mention the emotionally involved players. I would like more content with them, where they actually get to fight with you, and where you get to enjoy their company, if just for a mission. Like another loyalty mission, I suppose. I just want more of them in it.

My final request is for better treatment of the FemShep romances imported from Mass Effect 2. While the Garrus romance was handled well and most fans are very happy with it, those who romanced Thane and Jacob have been left with, at best, a feeling of disappointment and at worst, outrage. Jacob's romance in Mass Effect 3 was (in the opinion of many players) handled very, very badly. It's established that the third game begins only six or seven months after the second. In that time, Jacob has not only fallen in love with another woman, but gotten her pregnant. Jacob, out of all the male LIs in ME2 most clearly states his affection for Shepard when he tells her that he loves her. For him to suddenly get tired of waiting around and start sleeping with another woman is ridiculously out of character with him. It's something that his father would have done, and his father is certainly NOT someone that Jacob likes. This needs to be rectified.

Then there's Thane. Having a cure for Thane was not only hinted at in the game itself (via conversations about the Hanar trying to discover a cure for Kepral's Syndrome and the Shadow Broker dossier about a lung transfer), but also by the BioWare staff as well on several occasions. To have his romance, which was deeply emotional and loved by many, be boiled down to him saying "Remember the good times and farewell," is abominably unfair.

Both Thane and Jacob deserve better than this. It was like they were just swept under the rug and completely forgotten, and for such an amazing organization like yours, the excuse that you 'dropped the ball' is ridiculous. It's not an excuse at all. It's negligent and genuinely upsetting for many of the players, whether they romanced them or not. Not to mention the fact that, after getting rid of two romance options for FemSheps, they're down to 2 heterosexual romances (one of which is contingent on having romanced him in ME2) and 3 homosexual romances. MaleSheps have no less than seven heterosexual romances and two homosexual romances. This is blatantly unjust. 

Please, please, please, bring back Thane and Jacob as proper romances. If Thane still has to die, at least make it more satisfying emotionally for those who romanced him. If Jacob can't be with Shepard, at least let it seem like a very difficult choice for him. Don't cheapen these wonderful characters and subplots that you yourselves created and developed. Your own genius deserves better, and so do the players who have grown to love all the characters you've made.

Thank you very much for giving us the chance to tell you these things. I know it's difficult to hear something you worked so hard on essentially be thrown back in your faces. But please know it's because we love the games so much that we can't stand to have them be anything less than the magnificence that the series deserves.

Beautifully written. Please listen to this, Bioware!

[Danyu]

This is a post reviewing the ending and thoughts related to it as well as the continuation of the Mass Effect series and other randomized thoughts.

To start off, I should say that I don't like Science Fiction. The idea of spaceships flying around the galaxy shooting lazers at each other has just never appealed to me. It's just a genre i've never really been into that much.

But the first Mass Effect game won me over, and by the end of Mass Effect 2 I was entralled and had already preordered Mass Effect 3 something like 6 months before release date. As a whole, Mass Effect 3 is a terrific game and made feel like I was on the edge of my seat for the most part.

With that being said, I think we all know what's coming ~ The Ending.

I'm assuming you guys want to keep as much as the ending that was in it's original presentation so I won't make crazy suggestions that diverge from the original story too much. This is also taking into account that I don't believe the Indoctrination Theory is accurate or was even hinted, but I guess I could be wrong.

- Mass Relays exploding and wiping out life on planets. I just don't see how killing trillions of organic beings is better than just letting the Reapers doing their thing. I really do get the 'because there's a cycle and it needs to be broken' thing, but isn't Shepard fighting to stop what's happening in the here and now, and not what would happen in the next cycle. He cares about the galaxy-as-is.

- What's with the Starkid AI looking like the kid from Shepard's dreams? There wasn't even an explanation about that.

- Where exactly does the Starkid AI come from? I just don't get it. Was this intentionally left open? And why wasn't I allowed to use my alliance with the Geth and friendship with EDI as a viable argument to synthetic and organic life living in harmony?

- Why is there no real closure on the rest of your crew? Are they being saved for later or something? Or how about a quick 5 - 10 minute overview of the fallout from any of the three choices? Sure, the implications could be daunting from those choices, but we're playing the game to see implication play out not debate them later. We want a satisfying feel, we don't want to feel empty.

- For the record, a very generic ending would have been far more exciting and satisfying in my opinion.

[Raptor_Thirteen]

The Good:
To save time, I'm just going to say that everything up until Shepard collapsed in front of the control panel on the citadel got an 11/10 from me, and I wouldn't change a thing. I'm fine with the more rail-like aspect of ME3 simply because you made your choices in ME1-2, and now you're seeing their effects. I got my choice, and I still get choice in how to deal with the consequences, but the roots of my decisions are already set in stone in the earlier games. That has been... a truly engaging feeling, for me.

Also, the personal take on Shepard drew me much closer to the character than any previous ME game managed. The combination of letting me decide the course over ME1-2 and then letting me see how those decisions culminated in (quite often) personal pain for Shepard was truly an accomplishment, and done very well throughout. If I were a crying man, you would have gotten me a few times.

The bad:
The bad is pretty simple, too. I think you tried too hard to clean things up at the end, and in a window far too small for what needed to be done. Also, it seemed to me you were hoping to offer a nice pretty ending package with a bow and wrapping paper, containing a complete explanation as to why this is all happening in the first place. That was unecessary, and I feel you over-reached in the attempt, and stumbled in the process.

Why this explanation is unecessary:
The reapers are a sentient species, even if they are snythetic. That means they wish to survive like any other species, and that in turn means the reason they were wiping out galactic civilizations is to birth more of themselves. Our galaxy is their womb, and we are just a reluctant fetus. That was clear in ME2 when we saw the human reaper under construction, and it never had to be stated. You didn't need to explain a higher purpose for the reapers; they didn't need one. They simply wished to live and increase in number, like any other life.

That's where I think you went wrong... as for what I think you should consider to make things right (the significant loose ends):

Antagonist/Final Boss:
I think everyone expected to address Harbinger. I certainly did. When he headed to Earth after me personally, I got little chills. His near-total absence after shooting me was disconcerting at best, and after I had time to consider the whole thing, seems like a wasted opportunity. Harbinger is Darth Vader, from where I sit. He's the looming menace you're afraid to finally face (because he's a battleship) that you know you must face before anything can be resolved.

Leaving him alive post-game in any capacity is either an unclear continuity hook, or a loose end that should be addressed. Personally, I would prefer he be addressed. He's the closest thing to a 'face' the reapers have, and he was a truly effective dragon in ME2. Through controlling the collectors, he drove the game's story forward. In ME3, I saw his face and heard his voice every time reaper forces appeared (not literally, of course). I dreaded him assuming direct control of a brute or a banshee until I finally realized it wasn't going to happen. He had presence enough in the second game that he was a looming fear in the third even without being involved, and not using that presence at all seems like a waste.

Reoccuring themes that seemed to end prematurely:
The child in the visions. Clearly, the child is a symbol of Shepard's failure/inevitable failure to save everybody. I get that. However, as the indoctrination theory proponents clearly point out, there also seems to be a lot more going on there. It's hard to disagree with their interpretation. Since the visions happen so often and throughout the game, addressing them could hardly seem forced. It strikes me as another excellent starting point to move forward.

Indoctrination. Now that the cat is out of the bag, why isn't Shepard indoctrinated? Why isn't the crew of the Normandy? The ship has a reaper IFF on it, to be blunt. Any exposure to reaper tech has been shown to start the process, and the rate can clearly vary. They've all lived on a ship for months. If Shepard isn't special (and you seem to have gone to great lengths in the third game to show that he/she is still human) why is he/she immune? If he/she is not immune, why has it not happened? That's without even addressing the distinct plausibility that Shepard was reconstructed using reaper tech.

Throughout ME1-2-3, you see people getting indoctrinated, and getting closer to Shepard. From Saren and Benezia, who you just met, to learning that people you saved and people you encountered (too many to count) were indoctrinated, all the way up to The Illusive Man, who you've spent a lot of time getting to know. The trend is clear: Indoctrination is a creeping danger working towards the very heart of your fight (you)... but then, at the end, it doesn't go anywhere.

The Ending:
As I've mentioned, the ending attempts to clean things up in unecessary ways, and stumbles in doing so. More than that, I was expecting it to play out as a result of my actions, not as a choice. I wanted to see the end result of the events I've initiated, and I'm not at all adverse to playing the game again to see a different result. Letting me choose an ending, regardless of my path TO that ending, is what caused me to feel disconnected from the end. I didn't want a happy ending, and I didn't want a sad ending... I wanted to see how my choices throughout the game played out, no matter what came of it.

Moving forward:
I dislike retconning so I would prefer a way of moving forward that incorporates the current ending, rather than removing it completely. I do see the difficulties in that, though, and I would forgive you if you had to make more sweeping changes (though I really hope being shot by a starship cannon stays. That's up there with fighting a tornado on the 'epic' scale). Unfortunately, for better or for worse, the hallucination/indoctrination theory exists, and it's the sun to any other idea's star. It'll be hard to impossible to see anything BUT indoctrination as a way forward without changing what exists, and I understand that people will expect it now, further limiting your options.

I don't dislike the indoctrination idea. It's bones are solid, even if some of its flesh is loose and poorly attached. It may even provide a solid building point to move forward from. I don't want you to just clone it (though I would be okay if you did). Mostly, I would want to see something along those lines: a way forward that simultaneously explains/invalidates what has happened as not real, and flows naturally into a resolution more in tune with the rest of the game.

That's enough out of me. Thank you for taking the time to address your fans, and have a good day,

-A fan

Modifié par Raptor_Thirteen, 24 mars 2012 - 03:39 .

[Motherlander]

Having thought about the endings, these are the things I would want to change with DLC in order of priority.

1) DLC to cover the plot holes and give more closure on what happened to the galaxy, Earth, Shepard and his/her squad mates, especially conentrating LI's.

2) DLC Change the destroy option so that ONLY the Reapers are included in the destroy order and other synthetics are excluded. I believe this simple change would placate a lot of people. I think the control and synthesis endings are still valid as choices, although I would prefer destroy.

3) Have possibilities of happy endings where Shepard can reunite with his/her LI and/or where the relays are not destroyed. Also, the happy ending should be available in SP.

One possibitiy would be to make Shepard choose between living and saving the Citadel/Relays.

So Shepard can live and destroy the relays or he can die and save the relays. This could be modified further by having a "perfect" scenario where Shepard can live and save the relays if he has EFS.

Modifié par Motherlander, 24 mars 2012 - 04:08 .

[Kyuso]

My input, late in coming.

While this is impossibly vague, I want to feel that what I did mattered.

Deus ex machina is what it is for a reason and it has no place in this amazing game. I want to reject the star child utterly and completely. There was no basis for this entity and the circular logic that it used (making synthetic things to kill you to protect you from synthetic things that are going to kill you - what is that?) and given everything that Shepard has seen, why I would suddenly be confronted with this... ghost child?

I want the time and effort I spent in getting my war resources up and my galactic readiness to 100% to impact what I see and how things unfold. I want to see more than just a token Krogran representation in a vast sea of humans.

I want the glaring plot issues with the ending addressed. This would include: the Normandy abandoning the conflict, the squad mates that I took on the end mission appearing (untouched!) after the crash landing, how Anderson got to the central room before me, why/how Hackett suddenly knows I'm alive, why my LI and closest companion abandoned me, how Joker picked them up from the area around the beam, there are many more that I could list, but I am quite certain that by now you are aware of them.

Given what has been established regarding the destruction of an array, why would Shepard accept killing scores more people than the Reapers have? Why would Shepard accept this galactic dark age?

I want to know what happens to my friends, my squad mates, the races... I want answers. While I realize that answers isn't the "artsy" thing to do, this isn't the time to be artistically vague. The fans are, in whatever way, saying goodbye to one of the greatest heroes ever introduced in to gaming. As it stands you've got an incredibly damaged relationship with your core group of supporters and really only one chance to fix it and fix it right.

In short, I want a destination worthy of the journey. Mass Effect 3 is at once the best and worst game I have ever played.

[Archangel6902]

The Reapers don't win but are driven back. Humanity and the rest of this cycle has been given another chance to make changes for the better. Prove that Humanity CAN work with and along side of  synthetics. Joker and EDI could be prime examples of this thinking. The Quarians and the Geth putting aside their differences to live in harmony, not by some Celestial Edict but by the power of the organic mind to always evolve it's way of thinking.

The one thing that seperates us from organics is that our way of thinking CAN evolve and adapt in positive ways that take into account our weekness as well, non logical outcomes and conclusion that synthetics on their own could never reach.

Realizing this the Reapers being the ever mysterious albiet Dark Bringers of Order, decide to let things run their course for a while longer, however rather than merely pulling back they allow the organics to unlock the true power of the Crucible which then obliterates them thus showing Organics even further proof that by working together perhaps they can change and evolve to break their own cycle of eventual destruction.

A moment before their physical hosts are destroyed the reper concious is pulled back and retreats back into dark space perhaps into a Master-Reaper Engine where perhaps all Reapers were born from. 

Humanity has another chance, can we change....
Can Organics as a whole ever learn from their mistakes, and work with Synthetics and not destroy each other ?

These are but a few of the questions now posed upon the universe, the immidiate threat has been vanquished, but in the deep corners of dark space the concious of the Reapers waits... So very patiently.
Can organics keep them from ever awakening ? That is a question for future stories to answer...

<Bows>