7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Faerlyte]

Just from a reader's standpoint the ending makes little sense to me. I'm reading what's said and I'm watching what's happening and there's just a lot going on that isn't explained and makes me scratch my head. Why?

Why can't Garrus and Javik come with me onto the Citadel, the three of us staggering barely alive to finish what we started in the beginning? It doesn't feel right to me to have come all this way with two companions at my back, only to lose them in the last sequence of the series. They should be there with me. I could be moderatly appeased if we got to die together, in one ending (emphasis on one). More so than I am with what I got.

Almost every character that matters to the player dies or quite possibly will die in the near future. Or the ones that we know are alive Shepard will never see again. This is not uplifting. The fact that they don't seem to mind that your dead isn't particularly uplifting either. There's no emotional reaction from them to Shepard's death, which doesn't fit or feel right within the context of what's going on. The fact that you won is besides the point - the hero's death is not uplifting or happy to people that knew and loved them and that should be reflected in the ending. It is not a happy ending for them.

If you're going to give us the choice of three endings than at least make very clear differences between them. You can make a "happy" ending where Shepard survives (you know, without murdering the geth and EDI...since I'd have a hard time justifying that as a paragon) because let's face it, the game has been bittersweet up till this point. You don't have to kill Shepard to maintain the feeling of sacrifice when millions have already died, including several old friends from the past. You're killing off tons of people, and the only ones we know for sure are alive are the ones that step off the Normandy.

Everybody else is stranded at earth, and that's a lot of everybody elses for one planet to maintain. How many people have to die for it to be bitter enough? I see no earthly reason why there can't be a more positive variation of the end where Shepard does live to reunite with his/her crew. Again, killing EDI and the Geth is cruel and unusual punishment to the player...nobody would ever want to have that choice in real life, but in real life the stakes are much higher. In a game...it's just not the same and I don't want to be forced into that kind of horrible decision just because it's more, I don't know, depressing? I don't play my games for that.

It's already brutally depressing. The whole game carries that feeling. The ending leaves us with very little to feel happy about because the characters that matter to us got the shaft. Sure, the rest of the galaxy survived, but in the context of a game they just don't mean to you what those characters do, because it's the characters with you that are real to the player, not the theoretical billions of NPCs.

I've watched movies that were beautifully made from beginning to finish and I never watched them again because they left me so heartbroken that I couldn't do it. Mass Effect has entered that category. If you want your games to have replay value or for me to want to buy your DLC, which before this I'd have jumped on that bandwagon without hesitation, you can't end the series on such a note. It can't be the only ending you give me.

I happen to like rainbows and butterflies, and they do exist in the real world. The rainbows and butterflies in Mass Effect 3 are very, very scarce.

Modifié par Faerlyte, 17 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[Doug M]

Keep the game, up to and including the conversation with the Catalyst, the same. Keep the three choices the same. When the player chooses Control or Synthesis, show how these choices were indoctrination-induced manipulation. When the player chooses Destroy, continue the game starting from Shepard taking a breath from the rubble, being saved by the LI, and realizing that s/he just resisted and broke free from indoctrination.  From there, awesome climactic final confrontation with Harbinger, huge battle with the fleets and ground forces, victory or defeat depending on whether we had enough Effective Military Strength, and fulfilling epilogue showing the outcomes of our choices.

Modifié par Doug M, 17 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[OchreJelly]

I normally don't do these because I'm not a very clear writer (and I think my points will have already been covered) but for the sake of participation I will explain what I liked and disliked about the game.

Oh and also, if something is not listed here, I am generally more than pleased with it or it is a minor issue. So please don't take my lack of direct praise as a lack of things to be praised because I loved the game up to the last few minutes.

Let me preface that I don't like the Catalyst child in terms of narrative, but I don't really buy the Indoctrination theory that has been floating around in the context of the current endings. I think it'd work with changes, however. Not throwing my support behind this but I wouldn't mind it as a way to shift the very endgame plot.

Last note: Playing the PC version. Will try not to touch on bugs.

• Core Plot: Might touch on a few below, but the plot holes or questions listed in this thread could use some closure or explanation: http://social.biowar.../index/10054944
  
• Core Plot: I would love the (difficult to get) option for a sensible, possibly bittersweet 'happy' ending. Not sugar and spice, but something that makes you think it's all worth it on a personal level. If there was one thing I felt across the course of 3 is that Shep wants to retire young. \\o/
• Core Plot: Explicit endgame conclusions regarding what I had Shep do in the course of the 3 games seems a universal essential based on the feedback I've seen. Character and race-wide aftermath. The more involved the better, but text scrolls are okay.
• Core Plot: I did not like the final ending as a whole, from the choice to the final cutscenes, as stated. However, the Stargazer ending lessened the impact even more. I know it's just a story but I don't need it to be a story within a story so it felt like it left events too open to interpretation.
  
• Core Plot: War assets and plot points should contribute to the final battle scenes. I.E. geth, krogan, quarians should show up in varying circumstances depending on your actions ingame.
• Core Plot: Mass Relay destruction no matter what felt too final for the galaxy, and unnecessary to conclude the story without more reasoning.
  
• Secondary Plot: Harbinger needed more lines. Something to cement him as a villain (an initial attack line or two, perhaps?)
  
• Secondary Plot: The initial dream sequence made me wonder what was going on. A scene of Shep sleeping beforehand would have helped explain it a little.
• Secondary Plot: Without further explanation of who/what it is, the emotional impact via dreams of the child's death at the start was tedious. It may work if there were depictions of others who have voices in the dreams (Legion, Mordin, Virmire squadmate, etc.)
• Tertiary Plot: Tali's face reveal. The moment on Rannoch would have been far better to do so (even if it were just eyes for mystery) She's the only character represented by an edited photo rather than a 3d model of some sort.
• Tertiary Plot: Cut dialogue between Anderson and Shep was amazing. If canon concerns about Anderson's family are an issue, the dialogue could be changed to reference 'his own kids/family' or that part cut.
• Tertiary Plot: Not a fan of Diana Allers. No offense to her real life likeness of course.
• Core Gameplay: Combat was slick overall, but binding nearly everything to one key was frustrating and led to accidental actions.
• Misc. Visual: Reduction in resolution for the PC version of some textures was weird. I'm all for a smooth gaming experience and overall ME3 had a better presentation than 2, but there were some glaringly low resolution/badly artifacted (EDI's maps) textures where 2 had presented much more detailed work.
• Misc. Visual: Lip-sync was not synced for the most part (bug?) Which is odd because although ME3 seems more emotive with it, ME2 had much better timed syncing.
  

Those are all the things I can think of offhand. Most are not essential, except for the final ending aspects. Again, to anyone from BioWare reading I loved the game besides these points.

Thanks!

Modifié par OchreJelly, 17 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[Ryven]

Sorry. I haven't read through the other posts yet so I'm gonna just put my thoughts out there.

As most, I loved the game up until the last 10 minutes. But the biggest problem I had with the ending:

I wanted to know that what my Shepard did mattered. I wanted closure. If the story called for my Shepard to sacrifice himself, then so be it, I just wanted to know that it mattered.

There was simply nothing showing the impact of Shepard's final act. Nothing to show that this is how life went on after my death or that this is how my squadmates and crew members reacted to my sacrifice.

If my Shep had to die, then I wanted to know why and how it affected everyone (of course I would have loved it if he would have lived, but I understand the emotional impact of killing him off). As it is right now, there wasn't any emotional impact at all. It simply gave us choices and then that was it.

P.S. Just a personal preference but if you guys do decide to use the indoctrination theory as a way out (and honestly it is a pretty good one). I would like an ending in which Shepard lives, but make it the hardest possible ending to obtain.

[Sywen]

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

3) I'd like to see Electronic Arts dip into its coffers and match whatever amount the Retake Mass Effect movement has raised by the middle of April.  EA's accountants can surely find a way to justify such corporate good will.

More people need to quote this!

Excellent Idea :happy:

[Ricvenart]

I feel the indoctrination theory is the best hope of making the changes needed, from getting hit by the beam onwards, the rest of the cake is a lie.

See this video as to why:


Then go further to say it covers why in ME3 Shepard is so frequently fine with reaper tech, knowing better then anyone else how the smallest bit can effect people. Ie. The first N7 mission, he disables the shields on the reaper samples and just brings them on board the normandy. It also expands on the humming Vega heard though the entire game.

I leave the exact details to you but give a few minor things I'd like to see.
Post Shepard waking up (be it in a hospital or rubble): Additional game play, dialogue with crew on the way to the new end and extended "real" talk with Anderson. And maybe a touch more with the LI would be nice but not required. (MShep/Kaidan actually getting to exchange I love you's and can't bare to lose you again would be nice, think the dialogue is there and could be really moving, even required to reaffirm the finality of it all).
Ending dialogue: Whatever it is, be it with Harbringer or some other force, a investigate option.
Choices: Various things can play out differently, an option to save Anderson actually means saving him. Same goes for other actions, we witness people we saved matter in the final fight, not just a war assest number.
Variety: Keep the original promise, lots of variety, one Ending would be nice where Shepard can live happily ever after with his LI for gaining alot of war assets. Others including absolute doom for everyone, total failure and several Degrees between, including variety of sacrifice (the people, of shepard or a species) in favour of winning.
An Epilogue: Still images would be fine, with a few lines on each to cover every crew member and person/race we saved and what they go to do now. Ie. Tali Returned to Rannoch to help rebuild a home for the Quarians/Went home to finish off the last of the Geth/Quarians left shattered by the geth and war were quickly finished off.

On an additional note: I would like to see a minor patch that allows legion to live though not upgrading his code, or at least explained by him being "corrupted" by reapers. I still feel it's a betrayal to what he stood for in ME2, it's not his own path and he wouldn't force a decision like that on all Geth.

Though I don't really trust this matters or will be read or taken into account. I have lost so much respect for Bioware as a company of late. But unlike you I gave a definitive answer, not ignore the olive branch, to what may help patch that, I'm giving you a choice.

[solidsnake78]

Well, the endings need to be changed first and foremost. But what I did not like besides the endings were the quests with time limits. Now, really the "time limits" are the end of the acts (last main quest on one of the planets) but some just dont make sense. Like, just keep Barla Von on the damn Citadel! Why does he and 10 other people have to leave when it gets attacked? I know you can say that maybe they died or something, and thats fine, but from a fun video game perspective its kinda annoying.

[jimbyjimb]

For me the ending was a bust not so much gameplay wise as I'm more of a fiction junkie. The bust was the inconsistent attitude the protagonist displayed as well as the lack of closure on the ending. I would say the indoctrination theory as stated on post one of the several-hundred page thread about it being a hallucination makes sense.

I received a sense of hopelessness from the ending as it sits, with exception to the Shepard lives renegade ending. The valiant hero dies not in glory, but with a whimper. My crew is inexplicably stranded. Why do the mass relays really have to be a-sploded? It's fine that they are but I really don't know why. Why did my crewmates on the ground not follow me toward the Citadel beam? How did they end up on the SR2? Why/how was the SR2 running? How did Anderson reach the console first when there was no apparent pathway for him to tread other than mine? Who is this silly ghost kid? Why doesn't Shepard have a paragon or renegade option during the pointless ghost kid's pointless speech? Above all else why do my choices/pattern of play not seem to matter one bit?

My concerns listed above, and others not on the top of my head, are quite easily resolved. Particularly if indeed BioWare has a plan in place, and this were not the intended end. If BioWare is intent and has been all along on completing this part of the saga then I fully apologize. If this is supposed to be an indoctrination or other some such I am not only sorry to doubt, but honored and excited to be a part of entertainment history. If it is not then I am only let down so long as it is not corrected. I played this game expecting choices throughout, and expecting real, definite closure and not room for imagination. I want Shepard's story to end firmly and definitely as it pertains to the Reapers, and i would very much like to see closure on the Reaper issue and Shepard's fate in the faces and stories of my trusty and loyal companions.

Mordin, Thane and Legion drop like heros. Snoop Dogg would call them straight-up gangstas. Shepard doesn't die here, obviously, but he also doesn't live. I'd like one or the other or both definitively. Ambiguous endings are frustrating for these reasons and more I can't think of at the moment.

[HurricaneGinger]

I'm a hopeless romantic, so please bear with me on the first two requests:

1. Several of us would like our Shepards to officially settle down with their respective LI, please. There doesn't have to be any dialog, but maybe a short scene? And it's not a dream or a hallucination - it's REAL. XD I would understand if a certain amount of War Assets was required, however. As a famous drell once said: "It's difficult. All things worth keeping are." We are willing to work our butts off for our Shepard to be with their LI.

2. At the end when Shepard is going through her flashback, her own LI didn't show up - in my case, Garrus. I thought he would be THE most prominent vision - the turian who has been by her side from the very beginning. I know in my final moments I'd be thinking about the love of my life. I would still love to see all Shepard's friends in the flashback, but maybe give the LI a little more attention?

3. Why, oh why, is Joker running away from a fight? And how on earth did the squad we took with us to deal with the Reaper all the sudden appear on the Normandy? Joker running from the fight makes no sense, it is out of character. If the Normandy absolutely must crash, then let it be on Earth please, and not some uncharted planet with no tech and no hope for survival.

4. We want an ending where we feel like we have really accomplished something. With this ending, we feel like all our choices and all our hard work wasn't really acknowledged. I'd like to see if the galaxy becomes more united, and all those deaths meant something; I want to see if Wrex is able to keep the krogan from attacking, if Mordin was greatly honored for his sacrifice. I want to know if all my decisions and friendships actually meant something at the end of all things.

5. I want to talk to Harbinger again, smirk, and tell him he's lost.


I thank you for taking us into consideration. It is nice to know that we are heard.

Modifié par PhantomGinger, 17 mars 2012 - 04:26 .

[ArchAngel6190]

Ryan546 wrote...

this thread says it all  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9851623 

And honestly there is nothing wrong with an ending where shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI/crew

For the love of god please do not go with the indoctrination theory bioware, please!  It's a good theory but only that.  I would be devastated for you guys to work on an epilogue just to have it so shepard was dreaming/mind-controlled.  I would much rather have it retconned and just take reaper god kid out, or have a fourth option to disregard him

Just to maybe put your mind at ease, For the indocrination theory, Im pretty sure if they went with it they would establish the "Wake up" aspect of it fairly quickly.  What i mean by that is somewhere between the hill run and the "End" is where Shepard would "wake up" and then the new ending would ensue.  It be pretty pointless to make a whole new ending to only have it be all part of the indoctrination.

[Ricvenart]

I feel the indoctrination theory is the best hope of making the changes needed, from getting hit by the beam onwards, the rest of the cake is a lie.

See this video as to why:


Then go further to say it covers why in ME3 Shepard is so frequently fine with reaper tech, knowing better then anyone else how the smallest bit can effect people. Ie. The first N7 mission, he disables the shields on the reaper samples and just brings them on board the normandy. It also expands on the humming Vega heard though the entire game.

I leave the exact details to you but give a few minor things I'd like to see.
Post Shepard waking up (be it in a hospital or rubble): Additional game play, dialogue with crew on the way to the new end and extended "real" talk with Anderson. And maybe a touch more with the LI would be nice but not required. (MShep/Kaidan actually getting to exchange I love you's and can't bare to lose you again would be nice, think the dialogue is there and could be really moving, even required to reaffirm the finality of it all).
Ending dialogue: Whatever it is, be it with Harbringer or some other force, a investigate option.
Choices: Various things can play out differently, an option to save Anderson actually means saving him. Same goes for other actions, we witness people we saved matter in the final fight, not just a war assest number.
Variety: Keep the original promise, lots of variety, one Ending would be nice where Shepard can live happily ever after with his LI for gaining alot of war assets. Others including absolute doom for everyone, total failure and several Degrees between, including variety of sacrifice (the people, of shepard or a species) in favour of winning.
An Epilogue: Still images would be fine, with a few lines on each to cover every crew member and person/race we saved and what they go to do now. Ie. Tali Returned to Rannoch to help rebuild a home for the Quarians/Went home to finish off the last of the Geth/Quarians left shattered by the geth and war were quickly finished off.

On Tali: A true unmasking for all would be nice and changing of the photoshop someone got paid for....

On an additional note: I would like to see a minor patch that allows legion to live though not upgrading his code, or at least explained by him being "corrupted" by reapers. I still feel it's a betrayal to what he stood for in ME2, it's not his own path and he wouldn't force a decision like that on all Geth.

Though I don't really trust this matters or will be read or taken into account. I have lost so much respect for Bioware as a company of late. But unlike you I gave a definitive answer, not ignore the olive branch, to what may help patch that, I'm giving you a choice.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 17 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[vurtual3]

If the indoctrination theory wasn't your intention and you didn't have plans for any content after the reapers/mass relays are destroyed then change your dlc plans if possible. I'm guessing that the need to play mp to get the Shepard breathing scene (well I needed to and I imported from both previous games/all dlc and did every mission I could find/scanned everything in 3) would have been addressed with more dlc with more assets. However I really don't think without a clearer explanation of what happens at the end it matters ,despite the fact that the game was incredible,a new benchmark for the medium,the ending was so impactful that all that matters now is what comes afterwards. If it's nothing fine,the trilogy stands as a great achievment but seriously even as someone who doesn't exactly embrace the changes in the ways games are sold this gen I've bought all story dlc for Mass Effect,and not regretted it,but unless it's Jack li related or related to the last mission or after I think the day 1 this time was my last for 3. I hope it's not! .You've set new standards with this game,take the opportunity to set new standards with dlc/episodic story telling. Can't imagine it's easy technically in time scales involved but if you pull it off you maybe just change the way single player games are sold, bought (and kept) probably forever. Isn't that clearly EA's goal anyway ? Ok that's me trying to be honest and reasonable. Honest and emotional- I just want my Shep to live and see Jack (and hopefully many more companions) again! A bridge to a new Mass Effect galaxy to be explored in the next trilogy post(maybe far after) Shepards legend.! Lastly please update us on plans for the franchise as quickly as my Shep would burst into a room of Cerberus trying to hurt Jack again.......

[Privatr16]

Assuming he lives Dr. Condrad Verner pulls a WWSD (What would Shepard Do?) and helps evacuate the people of the citadel thus becoming a new hero of the citadel. This is done by rallying the CDF to hold reaper forces at bay while he and others activate the conduit to send the civilians to Illos or some other less awesome means of escape.

Extra props if we get to play as Conrad and in an akward fashion make things work out for the better despite his ineptitudes.

At least this way people will feel CDF actually did something.

[sirisaacx]

EDIT: sorry for the HUGE wall of text >.<

First of all, I'd like to thank Jessica for providing us a place to organize our thoughts and feedback. I'd been holding off on posting my impressions/suggestions because I knew they would just get burried in the bowels of the forums. With that said, I'd like to kick of my personal analysis of the mass effect 3 ending.

For starters, I don't agree that the indoctrination theory is the right way to go. Relegating something to "it was all a dream" is lazy writing, and more importantly, it negates some of my favorite moments in the game (the confrontation with TIM and the conversation with Anderson.)

Secondly, I love the IDEA of war assets. It makes the player feel like their choices throughout the games really mattered. Seeing a list and descriptions of the allies we've accrued really drives the choices system home. However, I, like many others, think that there should be some payoff in the endgame.

For instance, at the very least, show cutscenes of Krogan riding their mounts into battle, of Geth and Quarians working together to take down reaper hordes, of that single volus dreadnought taking down a destroyer before bursting into a ball of fire.

However, an even better, though tougher to implement solution, would be to be able to direct these forces, much like the suicide mission in mass effect 2. This is wholly unnecessary, but directing certain key elements of the army in addition to cutscenes could provide that extra bit of choice and player agency near the endgame. It would be a culmination of all of our efforts.

I'd also like to see our companions from Mass Effect 2 and 3 play a more direct role in the fight. Again, including them in cutscenes would be a simple way to show that they are more than points on a war assets screen. Show Kasumi backstabbing a cannibal, then cut away to Grunt charging a group of husks. Some of these characters could even be leading the squads we direct. All of this would ideally influence the ending we got, at least in a minor way.

Alternatively, having sections of the final mission (earth) where we see and fight along side old companions would be an awesome way to make the final fight special without having to include a boss, and I do believe ME3 is stronger without a final boss. (Well, except for Marauder Shields)

To Summarize, I dislike the fact that the purpose of war assets is to give you more or less endgame choices and to influence shepards odds of surviving an explosion. There is no conection between these two things. War assets should influence how easily the battle is won or lost, and the cutscenes should reflect that.

The preceding, however, pales in comparison to my gripes regarding the final minutes of Mass Effect 3, and while this dead horse has been beaten, I will chime in anyway.

Personally, I think the game should have ended after the talk with Anderson, and although it is a minor change, I really wish you guys had used the extended dialogue, as it's some of my favorite in the game. But I digress. A bittersweet ending in which shepard dies next to Anderson as he or she watches the catalyst fire and destroy the reapers (or take down their shields and allow them to be destroyed based on how many war assets you have) would have been pitch perfect.

If you do insist on using the starchild however, I agree with many of the commentors that there should be an option to give a "Shepard speech" to him, detailing the reasons why organic and synthetic life can coexist. The chances to succeed in this coersion would be based on whether or not you brokered peace with the geth, and whether or not you allowed Joker and EDI to enter a relationship, as well as paragon/renegade scores and influence.

Perhaps if you succeeded in convincing the starchild, he would disable the reapers, which would allow you to destroy them with relative ease, and if you failed, you would have to choose one of the other three options, or, with a sufficient number of war assets, you could wipe the reapers out, albeit at the cost of 90 percent of the fleet, though due to the overwhelming nature of the reaper force, this plan does seem a little unlikely to succeed.

The epilogue is where my greatest complaints lie though. Or rather, the lack of one. The whole scene with the Normandy should be scrapped. I get the metaphor that a new cycle is starting, and it reinforces the cyclical nature of the universe, but the whole point of Mass Effect is BREAKING that cycle, which is what the epilogue should show. Whether shepard lives or dies (my vote is for dies, though having an ending where he lives would appease a lot of people who want blue babies) the cycle should be BROKEN.

We should see Krogan and Turian survivors looking out together at the war they have just won. Geth and quarian soldiers admiring the wreckage of countless dead reapers. And Shepards squadmates either reuniting with the now living legend, or mourning his heroic passing.

Most importantly though, is to include a section that addresses our choices throughout the series. Yes, we can broker peace between races, or exterminate them. Yes, we can save the rachni, save the council, and cure the genophage. But I would like to see the effects of these actions. Whether through slides, text, comics, or cutscenes, I want to see what happened to all of my squadmates present and past as well as the crew of the normandy. I want to know whether or not it was a good idea to cure the genophage. I want to see peace or the beginnings of unrest on rannoch between quarians and geth. And it doesn't need to be set in stone. It can HINT at an outcome.

Showing the beginning of Krogan unrest and plots for revenge, instead of outright telling us "this was the wrong choice" or qualms between geth and quarian still leave things open for interpretation while offering fans some amount of closure. Because really, closure is all we really want in the end.

Oh, and please don't destroy the mass relays and citadel. We've all fallen in love with the Mass Effect universe and to see it destroyed is painful! At the very least, if you must go this route, give us some hope, or at least some closure. Show Turians and Krogan building new housing on earth to fit all of the refugees, or show infighting between them if you didn't broker peace so successfully. We want to see our actions have weight, and a new or at the very least extended ending could give us just that.

Thank you.
-Isaac.

Modifié par sirisaacx, 17 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[Esoretal]

Cross-posting from a thread that got buried. This seems like it belongs here more anyway. I just made some options up that seem like fun. I'm sleepy and I'm going to bed after I post this.

Shepard wakes up in the London rubble.

If she's indoctrinated, she gains new powers and a new appearance similar to TIM at the end and fights against her own squad and the Alliance soldiers, who appear to Shepard look like Reapers wearing the characters' suits so they look like enemies to her. You hear Harbinger's growling periodically. If Shepard is indoctrinated, and the Reapers still lose depending on the EMS, she is overcome by her squad and ends up either dead (blue) or in a mental hospital on Earth (green). If the Reapers win, she kills all of her squad and becomes something different depending on whether you choose blue, which incorporates you into the other Reapers, or green, where you become the main component of the first completed human Reaper yourself.

If she isn't indoctrinated, she and her squad have a showdown against Harbinger with backup fire from the Fleet. Either Shepard and everyone else gets destroyed, or the Reapers do, depending on your EMS. How many of your squadmates and Fleet die also depends on your EMS, and they go down one by one during the battle. If you lose to the Reapers, there's an epilogue showing the new forms of life that spring up in the aftermath. An epilogue appropriate to the characters that survive follows if you win against the Reapers, and those who don't survive get a proper funeral. The galaxy remains united and vigilant against any more Reaper threats if you have a high enough Paragon score, but if you're Renegade, the galaxy deteriorates into chaos again. Shepard continues to have nightmares and occasional headaches for the rest of her life, and retires from active duty to enjoy what she has left with or without her LI depending on whether or not they die.

It's probably not perfect, but this is what I came up with off of the top of my head. I need a reason for Shep to go back up into the Citadel again and face the Illusive Man. Maybe the Illusive Man tries to sabotage the Crucible and it blows up in his face. :/

EDIT: Maybe Shep only goes back into the Citadel after killing Harbinger and activates the Crucible to wipe out the rest of the Reapers. There could be a time limit of having to find your way there before the Citadel gets destroyed, then TIM does his posturing at the end and gets shot/shoots himself depending on the dialogue choices, just like before.

Blue Indoc
- Win Against Squad, become part of other Reapers
- Lose Against Squad, die at their hands
Green Indoc
- Win Against Squad, become human Reaper
- Lose Against Squad, mental hospital

Resist Indoc
- Win Against Reapers
-- Paragon, order
--- LI Alive
--- LI Dead
-- Renegade, chaos
--- LI Alive
--- LI Dead
- Lose Against Reapers, New Cycle Begins

Seven different endings, right there.

Thank you for the wonderful experience you've given us. I would love to see it have a supreme ending with the same exceptional quality as the rest of the game.

Modifié par Esoretal, 17 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[focusright]

well, a new more lore oriented ending + scenes where I can see my war assets fight! ( rachni,arias army , squadmember like jack,grunt etc..)

Modifié par kiiiiii, 17 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[NPH11]

 Thank you for providing this topic to provide criticism and ideas.

Now, before getting to the matter at hand, I'd like to first point out that Mass Effect 3 is not a good game, it's a great game. Aside from the obvious flaws at the end, I've enjoyed the hell out of it. Combat is fluid and smooth, graphics have improved without any change in speed, the music is wonderful and the voice acting, overall, is probably at its highest point in the series. There is a lot to be proud of here.

Yet, at the end of the game, things begin to fall apart. The endings were not good and I believe they were not what the core Bioware audience wanted or expected as a conclusion to the trilogy. In general, they were way too grim and lacked variety, partially because they were intended that way and partially because of a lack of clarity. All three options (And really, there are only three) involve the destruction of the Mass Relays. Only one option has Shepard survive. And the options overall are quite dark. We can chose to sacrifice our Shepard to control the Reapers (Which I wouldn't do, it allows them to live), we can chose to synthesize (Which I wouldn't do, as homogenizing the DNA of all galactic races seems to defeat the purpose of uniting them despite their differences), or we can chose to destroy the Reapers (Which I reluctantly do as it sacrifices the Geth, making my move to bring peace between the Quarians and the Geth absolutely pointless. EDI probably dies as well, which just sucks). Either way, a lot of people are doomed to death and the galaxy is suddenly splintered due to the loss of communication and transit.

I see what you were aiming for here and it wasn't a bad idea. It's war, things aren't always going to work out for the best. However, this is a video game, a game where we are playing as a character who has consistently overcame the odds (He beat death FFS!). I already decide which depressing option I want when I turn on the news in the morning. Games don't need to reflect the reality of the situation. Having those grim options there is a great idea, however I would've provided at least two more endings. One being an actual, definitive victory over the Reapers that doesn't involve casting the galaxy into the dark ages or dooming a species (The Geth) to extinction. The other ending would be the opposite, total defeat. Earth is destroyed, Shepard is killed and the path is set for the Reapers do extinguish all advanced life in the galaxy. Some people may want to build Tali a house on the home world, or have lots of little blue babies with Liara, that's not for me, I'm not into Disney style endings, but I can certainly understand why they would want that and would not be against having that option. In comparison to ME1 and ME2, it seemed very out of place to not have at least one "happy" ending. Shepard's a badass, he wouldn't take that lying down!

All of this brings me to my second major issue with the endings. Our choices, ultimately, didn't matter nearly as much as they should have. To clarify, I understand how my choices matter during the actual campaign. That was done very well. I felt like I was walking a tightrope and that every choice that blew up in my face could be the one to doom the galaxy. At the end, however, where my choices should've mattered, nothing happened. The only choice that really seemed to matter was whether or not I saved the Collector Base as it gave my meter a nice boost. Completing the side quests provided was all I needed to do to boost my meter properly. I was expecting to go into the final battle seeing my choices play out. Seeing the Geth and Quarian fleets working side by side, seeing the Turians supporting the Krogan and vice versa, seeing the Rachni back me up, then I got to the Crucible and was told to pick which option I liked best. I was surprised to say the least. That's it? I just pick my ending? How did my choices play into my options other than providing a little meter boosting? At the climax of the game I was left feeling as though my choices were meaningless. All I needed to do was walk in and pick an option, regardless if I had been a do-gooder or a complete jerk.

To be fair, I'm honestly not sure how I would change it to have my choices come into play more, but I'm sure many people in this topic will have provided ideas.

All of this brings me to my last umbrage with the ending of the Mass Effect trilogy, the lack of resolution. The Reaper plot, at the end of ME3 is solved, which is good. But Mass Effect was also a character story. People, over the course of the Mass Effect trilogy, grew attached to their Shepard and grew attached to their team. Mass Effect 3 fails to provide any solid resolution for our beloved characters. No matter what ending we chose, Shepard is likely dead, and even if he is alive he is separated from those he cares about as the Normandy is stranded on a mystery planet somewhere. You mentioned that you intended to have a bittersweet ending, which is good, but I already experienced the death of many of my favourite teammates, isn't that bittersweet enough? What you consider to be a "uplifting and hopeful" ending certainly doesn't match my idea of uplifting and hopeful. We learn nothing about what happened to our Shepard and his or her team, which is just a huge disappointment. If a general rule in storytelling is "Show, don't tell" ME3 accomplished neither. Ambiguity can work well, but in this case, at the conclusion of a trilogy spanning three games and hundreds upon hundreds of hours, a trilogy that has worked hard to provide us with a wide range of information through quests and the elaborate codex, to suddenly be left with nothing is just wrong. To see a quote in the ME: Final Hours about how fans didn't need the answers was just absurd, maybe we didn't need to know, but we certainly would've liked to know. Had someone told me before the release of ME3 that we wouldn't be told information about the Reapers, I wouldn't have believed them. It's not something I ever expected from Bioware.

So, to summarize, what I feel needs to be changed is a wider variety of endings (Including some that aren't nearly as grim), a larger overall feeling of my choices mattering at the climax of the story (Just throw in some cutscenes, I'll be happy) and more resolution for the characters I love so much (Make it a cutscene, or a text crawl, just have it!).

You were right on one thing though. You, and the entirety of the Mass Effect team should be very proud. You've created not only an amazing franchise, but an amazing universe, one of the greatest in sci fi. Don't let anybody take that away from you, but it's at the point now where the trilogy ending actually detracts from everything else which is a damn shame given how amazing this series has always been. I trust everyone at Bioware to make the right moves and I'm hoping some changes are made.

Thank you for your time (If you actually read this, good work, you're the bestest!)

Modifié par NPH11, 17 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[RedTracer7]

I'll keep mine short, because others have stated what I would like, and I'm not going to waste Bioware's time dictating specifics (like the layout of dialogue wheels! )

1) I would like everything past the ascension to the star child to be wiped from the game. Use the indoctrination theory we've created. It's full of plot holes, and messes everything up.

2) Give us a sense of closure. I would like to see what happens to these characters I've come to love, after the Reapers are defeated.

[bicyclepirate]

Looking back at it, I see how the game as whole worked as an "ending" throughout its narrative. You have the Salarian v. Krogan situation, with the Turians acting as peace brokers. The Geth v. Quarian war gets resolved one way or another. You confront the Illusive Man multiple times, and in the end, you can talk him down or kill him. There are various side missions, some nods to whether you saved the Council, and your actions with the Rachni Queen can seriously bite you in the ass if you let it, so in the end the threads were resolved.

My biggest problem (well, aside from the nonsensical ramblings of the infallible GodBaby, whose thesis Shepard disproved within the content of the game) is that I didn't get to see the all this hard work come together. Instead it was all reduced to a numerical score. And even then, the difference between the worst and best endings was blink-and-you-miss-it. I've watched them side-by-side now, and if you didn't tell me Earth was destroyed in some of them, I might have missed it. The hardest-to-get ending, the one I had anxiety over, chasing after each and every one of those sidequests and playing 4+ hours of multiplayer? 10 seconds of my Shepard breathing, and instead of cheering, my first thought was "Great, and now she bleeds to death, alone, because her crew abandoned her." That's not bittersweet, that's the bleakest thing I've ever seen.

I wanted to see the Krogan charging into battle, watch the Rachni Queen possibly save a beloved character from an otherwise doomed fate, see the Geth and the Quarians come together to launch a brilliant attack on Harbinger. I wanted to see them in action. And after Shepard sacrificed herself, I wanted to see them all mourning and celebrating, and moving on with rebuilding the galaxy, so that her death actually meant something. Or you know, if I played 10 hours of multiplayer and somehow mined 50 hours out of singleplayer, yeah, well maybe I freaking wanted Shepard and most of her friends to live, so sue me. You were the one who promised me multiple endings. The lack of variety and choice in the endings seriously hampers the incentive to replay these games or buy additional DLC (since I usually buy DLCs, especially those that happen before endgame, for replays). What's the point when it doesn't really matter?

There are so many things wrong with the ending (and it's the ending, not endings, because they are all virtually the same) in what was otherwise a fantastic, incredible game. You created forced solutions to a problem that didn't previously exist (or rather, one that Shepard had solved multiple times within the narrative). The tone and genre shifted suddenly, and without warning, and the thematic strain of "choices matter" suddenly boiled down to "So here's three, pick, they're all the same anyway, it doesn't matter." Massive plot holes are left within your own lore, characters, and the situation you created (when did the Normandy get a teleporter, why was Joker suddenly fleeing to the Charon relay, why is the crew that literally followed Shepard on a suicide mission now turning tail and running with him, how does a Mass Relay explosion not result in the destruction of the whole system, how do the Quarian and Turian fleets not starve to death, what good was it uniting a galaxy when now all the civilizations are cut off from one another, etc.). But the fact that you guys are shocked by the response to the ending doesn't exactly engender any faith or hope for a satisfying conclusion or aftermath to this all.

So I'm not going to hold my breath or anything, but please just fix it. This was a wonderful trilogy and it's such a sad, upsetting note to go out on. Not because they ending was sad, but because in the end, nothing I did in 100 hours of play seemed to matter.

[DarthSyphilis59]

camcon2100 wrote...

Go with the indoctrination theory. Make it so we face off with Harbinger for real this time. And make the crucible a realistic construct some sort of blast that weakens the Reapers. This allows us to use our EMS to determine how the rest plays out. This would be perfect

good idea!!

[RocketManSR2]

I was just wanting a moment on Earth a few years after the end of the game. Shepard playing with his/her son/daughter in the front yard with the LI looking on, smiling. The child has a ship model similar to the boy at the beginning of the game and in the CG teaser trailer. In the background, we see an unnamed city being rebuilt. Signs of the Reaper attacks are still scarring the land, but the clean up effort is beginning to make the Earth beautiful again. That's the "perfect" ending. It's hopeful, has closure, but still bittersweet because we know what was sacrificed to bring peace. I consider it more of an extended cut to what's already there. I also agree that Tali's face is beautiful, but create it yourselves, in house. Keep the reveal to only the picture on Shepard's desk. That was nice. Also, keep the relays around somehow. There, my 2 cents.

[Lazarus Cricket]

Thanks for wanting to hear our feedback and address our concerns, it's appreciated.

Throughout the game I enjoyed the war atmosphere and the running themes of Unity (through comprimise and resolving old hatreds and prejudice) and Sacrifice (Laying down ones life to save others, or to right a wrong).

In particular I felt Mordin's sacrifice to be the most emotionally stirring. We saw his character go from struggling to justify his actions to placate a guilty concious in ME2 to taking a proactive action to undue the harm that had been done and earn redemption through a final act of bravery.

Also near the end, the scene with Anderson and Shepard sitting down together is emotionally gripping and helps us feel a full circle from ME1 back when Shepard was first serving under Anderson. Anderson takes on the role as a father figure and makes the player proud of Shepard making it this far, making much of the sacrifice seem worth the struggle.

The point where we meet star child is where it feels like the story abandons all of its previous themes and suffers from a great emotional disconnect. Star child is a character we have not seen before, we have no emotions attached to him, the revelation of his character combined with his illogical statements is jarring. We are expecting to face a villian we already have emotions of anger towards, such as Harbinger, defeating him would let the player achieve an emotional climax and enjoy a cathartic moment of victory. Instead we are faced with the Star Child who looks like the child from the dreams and are not told why he has this appearance, leading to feelings of confusion and distrust (the choice of this disguise would suggest the creature was attempting to be emotionally manipulative by assuming an innocent and sympathetic face).

Star Child states that Reapers preserve advanced species from destruction at the hands of synthetics that it believes will inevitably destroy their creators. He says that synthetics and organics will fight eachother because of what they are, not who they are, that their actions up to this point do not matter. It essentially convicts them of a crime they have not commited. It is illogical to arrest a person for a crime because they come from a backround that gives them a high statiscal probability of commiting said crime, that line of thought is an evil and prejudiced notion.

It reduces people to a word, chaos, dehumanizing sentient being with free will. It speaks of genocide as a "solution". The Star Child has the venacular of a mass murdering dictator, no one would think anything it has to say would be impartial or reliable.

Worst of all, Shepard disagrees but then submits passively to what the Star Child is saying. That is why many people believe the "Indoctrination Theory" to be plausible, as the hero at this point acts as if they are brain washed and becomes a relatively passive participant. Accepting any choice from this villian is worse than make a deal with the devil, its doing his work for him, essentially making Shepard a villain as well by compliance. The ending as it stands makes it hard for me to want to play knowing that I have no choice but to do something evil at the end.

I think Star Child as originally portrayed is not essential to the plot, if replaced as a vision being used by Harbinger it gives it relavance and makes the final battle a battle of wills against indoctrination by a foe we wish to defeat.

The explaination for the Reapers is very late and not needed, we understand enough of their plans to want to defeat them. Keeping the rest of the Reapers origins ominous, mysterious, and unknowable would serve better than an illogical or unsatisfying explaination.

Instead we could have Shepard battle Indoctrination of Harbinger and try to find a way to understand what the Crucible is and how to use it. Maybe finding clues left in the programming like an alien VI, or a group of Keepers who have a secret code modified in their programming so that when the crucible docks they seek to help the organic that attempts to activate the Crucible use it against the Reapers, all set up by a race in a previous cycle to help the next achieve victory.

It could just be a super weapon that disrupts the Reaper code, making the reapers weak so that they can be defeated conventionally. Or it could have a renegade option to attempt to control reaper code and manipulate them, without becoming electified and dying for no reason. If the readyness level isn't high enough shepard could die from her/his wounds, or if high enough would be rescued by an ally who finally made their way through.

I don't see why the relays would need to always be destroyed or destroyed at all if the reapers can be stopped. Also, as with most people, I would like some closure with characters, seeing shepard after the victory with his comrades, or seeing them mourning her/him and those who were lost.

Just my humble personal suggestions, I'm sure there's no shortage of ideas.

Otherwise this has been a great trilogy and I appreciate all the hard work and effort from the team. If you read this I am thankful for the time you have taken to hear a fan's opinion, and wish you well.

Modifié par Lazarus Cricket, 17 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[Draco2fox]

squad member missions like in 2

[Caz Neerg]

Oh, and in addition to my earlier, more thought out suggestion, here is an easy fix you could offer for a lot of people:

Give us a toggle that lets us have the game skip straight from laying on the Citadel next to Anderson, looking out at Earth, to the Crucible firing and the cheering on Earth, and then leave out the Normandy scene entirely.

I think a lot of people, while that wouldn't be the end they wanted, it would at least be an ending that ended on a profound emotional note, without introducing new questions and a whole slew of new loose ends.

Modifié par Caz Neerg, 17 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[-Skorpious-]

If the indoctrination theory isn't pursued, l would prefer if three events from the current ending are altered -

A) The relays being left intact

The star-child's removal from the plot (along with better explanations for the specifics of each end-game choice)

C) an epilogue detailing the current and future status of the various species+squadmates who served aboard the Normandy

In general, I don't need Shepard to survive. Hell, I don't even need the Normandy crew to survive. All that matters to me is the fact that the surviving species can communicate and help each other rebuild whatever is left of their civilizations.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 17 mars 2012 - 04:31 .