7052 réponses à ce sujet

[ginyu549]

This is what I want:
http://social.biowar.../index/10495806

[bowery tuff]

I've posted once in here, but posted this earlier in another forum and was encouraged to paste it here. Basically I became fed up with those who look down on others who want some sort of happiness in their ending and these are my thoughts to why some happiness is not a bad thing with a few edits.


Ok, so I obviously only beat the game once because good god, why would I want to put myself through that soul crushing experience again? I decided to go on youtube and see how all the romances played out. I romanced Tali in my main playthrough and thinking back to the scene where she says "I want more time," still kills me. But I thought, "Oh, maybe they just wanted to make the Tali romance heart-crushing." Nope. Every single one of them (that I've seen so far) have some sort of dialogue about hope and seeing each other again followed by a tearful goodbye and the dialogue is so blasted good. This brings me to my point. I know a lot of people are saying it doesn't have to be happy as long as it makes sense but I'm fed up with that. What would be so wrong in having ONE happy ending or, more realistically, one bittersweet ending with actual sweetness in it? I think people see wanting this as some sort of sign of weakness or something. Screw that. All I want is my Shepard, who has basically been crushed by the galaxy for three games, to have some sort of relief in the end. Oh, well maybe he lives in one destroy ending but that doesn't really matter. His crew, the only people who have had his back through thick and thin, are stranded on this jungle planet and Shep has no idea if they're alive or not and they have no idea if Shep died, even though they seem to be pretty optimistic with that ambiguity. I keep going back to that Jeremy Jahns review and he had one line that perfectly summed it up for me.

"I understand that the common belief is that in epics like these the hero has to die, but the phrase the hero has to anything in a game like Mass Effect that's built around choice and you picking your own destiny -- it goes against everything that Mass Effect is all about."

As I've said before, I'm ok with bittersweet. The galaxy is decimated, the mass relays are destroyed, the fleet who came together against all odds is stranded far from home and you are dead unless you lived but then you will never see anyone you care about ever again. Oh, and the Reapers are destroyed if you picked ketchup. I'm sorry but that just seems like it's maybe 95 percent bitter and 5 percent sweet. That is not a bittersweet ending and that's the best you can hope for. That's like saying No Country for Old Men is bitersweet because even though just about everyone is dead, including Llewelyn's innocent wife, at least Anton Chigurh got a compound fracture in a car accident. No, that's a damn tragedy, even though it is a good one. But Mass Effect is not No Country for Old Men.
And no I don't think the other endings are any better because there's no way I fought my tail off through three games to sacrifice Shepard's soul and give into Saren and TIM's insane and indoctrinated beliefs. Also in the destroy ending you kill all synthetics with blind acceptance on the idiotic notion  that synthetics will always be at war with organics despite the fact that you just proved that theory wrong. So to recap, the best possible ending is galactic dark age, a decimated Earth being home to trillions of aliens and humans (which can't conceivably last without resources), the Normandy crew stranded on Fantasy Island (minus the awesomeness of Ricardo Montalban), Shepard has worked his/her butt off just to die (OR MAYBE NOT?!) with never seeing the people who really mattered ever again and never having the closure of knowing what happened to them, Shepard has just grinned like an idiot and accepted the fact that he/she committed genocide against a race he/she realized had been misunderstood and Shepard can never have pie again because all the Krogans will probably eat all the pie and there will never be pie again (after all the terrible things, I'm just assuming this happens).
So yes, I want some happiness in my ending. I don't care if people want to call that sappy or weak or say that I can't appreciate a good dark story. I can. Empire was my favorite Star Wars movie but there was also hope in that ending because you knew something else was on the way. This is the end of the trilogy. But every person's journey through this great series is their own and Vincent Shepard has taken enough crap from the galaxy and sacrificed more than enough of his life. He just wants to retire with his friends, have some drinks and run through the streets screaming that he's "the savior of the galaxy and is dating dem hips" while high fiving everyone who still has a pulse before becoming way too drunk and having to have Garrus take his keys. Is that really so wrong?

[RaiderKIA]

A thoughtful critique of Mass Effect 3

Background: I’m an old school CRPGer.  Wizardry, Ultima, Gold Box, System Shock,
Wing Commander, you name it, I played it. ME and ME2 are some of the finest
games ever produced, bar none. While I purely hated the intro of ME2 because it
was so completely implausible  but once
you got past that (or put it aside to nurse as a grudge) the game itself was
magnificent in scope, varied in gameplay and always intriguing.  Even the resource scanning was entertaining
once I figured out that there really wasn’t any shortage of rich planets and I
didn’t need to scour every single planet in the galaxy.  I gladly bought DLC and enjoyed that on
replays because I never mind sponsoring good games and gameplay.  I consider it voting for more game with my
wallet.

Obviously when ME3 went on sale, I preordered my Collector’s
Edition without hesitation.  I even
watched the Space Editions to see where they landed although none were close
enough to my house to make recovering one a realistic possibility.  I played the demo and was pleasantly
surprised by the multiplayer.  It was
smooth, fun action with entertaining loot and rewards.  One thing that did not become apparent until
the full release was the problem with the “leader” in pick-up games.  If they lose connection or exit to lobby, the
entire group can lose their progress or not get paid for the last 20 minutes of
hard fighting.  That is really
infuriating and needs to be fixed in a patch. 
Everyone should get their experience and payoff before anyone can leave
or it should be awarded regardless of whether someone clicks through their reward
screens and exits.  This can also cause a
problem at the store (although the purchase completion seems to have been
addressed somewhat in the main release).

The first chill, however, set in with the opening for the
main game.  The intro was all talking,
two decisions and no saves for at least 20 minutes, maybe more. On the one hand
I understand that there was exposition needed for new players and to establish
the scene for old players. 
Unfortunately, dumping all of that out during the Reaper invasion
really, really detracted from the horrifying reality that everything humans had
built over millennia, every hard-won improvement and labor of progress was all being
destroyed.  The emotional impact was
almost completely absent although an attempt was made to personify it by talking
about it and killing off a little boy.  That
was an ineffective swing and a miss.  It
would have been far better to have Shepard experiencing nightmares from ME1 and
ME2, wake and go to a relatively innocuous setting, a bar, a park, anywhere
other than a military complex, really,  listen to some music or see people going about life then to see the Reaper advance scouts
landing and tearing up the place (think about Ripley in Aliens – was she having
a good time when nobody believed her?).  Heck,
Shepard could have been on “house arrest” and wearing a tracking bracelet if
guidance was needed to get them from point A to point B.  The important elements of humanization and
normalization were completely omitted, however, which meant there was no set-up
for the drama of the attack on Earth. 
Shepard was a non-entity for people who didn’t know the game, and was
left with a large gap in their background for people who did.

Consider an alternative: at the park, an acquaintance, a
social worker, heck the people monitoring the bracelet could have stopped by to
check in or may have summoned Shepard to their office for a review.  A discussion regarding the nightmares and the
fact that nobody believed in the Reaper cycle could have established key plot
points.  A tutorial on basics to get
moving, then fight through throngs of panicking civilians and rampaging Reaper
scouts to HQ, then have Anderson handle a limited amount of Alliance exposition
and you’re in business.  Shepard complains
about the lack of serious weaponry, gets sent to the armory to gear up and then
fights to the Normandy and you’ve got an action RPG with neat gadgets, background
and plotlines covered, and no tediously long lecturing (or at least lecturing
broken up into manageable chunks).  You
also get some immediate depth to Shepard and the Earth’s vulnerability.  I’m sure there could have been some simple
opportunities to make some paragon / renegade decisions along the way to
introduce that system too.

Objectively, I know Bioware could have generated extremely
graphic footage, but they had to satisfy censors around the world as well as
concerned parents who wouldn’t want children really traumatized by images of
space aliens destroying their town burned into their young minds.  Without some visceral elements, however,
ships blowing up in the distance and Reapers setting down in the city have very
little impact.  Oh, that scenery in the
far background is blowing up?  Wow,
that’s a real shame.

At the Alliance HQ meeting, the notion that top Alliance
leaders would utter banalities like “What do we do?” is flat-out
ludicrous.  Military leaders are
continually planning for a wide variety of various scenarios, including sneak
attacks and surprise invasions, so there would have been some disaster
planning.  It may have collapsed quickly,
it may have required Anderson to take steps and to send Shepard for help.  Pretending right off the bat that only
Shepard knows what to do was a contrivance which took me right out of the game.  Having Shepard sit and listen to really long
exposition then go through an extremely lengthy “follow-the-leader” thereafter was
boring and annoying and, since none of it can be skipped, it all has to be
redone *every*single*time* you want to play. That all by itself pretty much
killed all desire to do a replay…

… but I got past it. 
Once on the Normandy, things picked up quickly.  The mid-game was everything I was hoping for
in ME3 – fast, flashy, graphic, challenging fun.  Decisions had reasonable consequences, old
friends put in cameos or stayed for the ride, everything was going well. I went
everywhere, snuck through Reaper-controlled space to rescue people and
artifacts, led scientists, marines, engineers, Volus and others out of danger,
fought side-by-side with other races and racked up over 6,600 war resource
points, including a large number of additions to the Crucible: Javelin Missile
Launchers, the Interferometric Array which was supposed to let me see every
reaper in the Milky Way, An Element Zero converter, optimized eezo capacitors,
emergency fuel pods, advanced power relays, a Haptic Optics Array, advanced AI
relays, the list goes on.  I fought endless
waves of enemies in multiplayer until my Galactic Readiness Rating was
100%.  When I went to take back Earth, I
was fully loaded and ready to smash anything that got in my way.

You know how many of these actually had any visible effect
on the final cinematics?  None.  You know how much the Crucible merged with
the Citadel or combined in some fascinating way to create an anti-Reaper weapon
with gee-whiz graphics and imagery?  Not
at all.  The entire outer shell of the
Crucible just peeled away to reveal something that looked like a microphone,
which eased up to the Citadel’s ring, then stopped.  It didn’t fire lasers.  It didn’t use any missiles or defenses.  It did a grand total of… nothing.  That’s right. 
The Crucible, humanity’s last hope of defeating the Reapers did
absolutely nothing visual in game.  Neither
did any of the fascinating gizmos and ultra-rare tech you had scoured the
galaxy to retrieve over many hours of time.

Things had gone astray far before this point though.  In the final stages of the game, there is at
least an hour and a half worth of fighting and final conversations with your
surviving friends and companions who have fought by your side for years (or
weeks of RL time) but there is no save point, no way to try different
things.  You want to replay an
ending?  Block out several hours of time
because it is one-way, no options.  Bring
a book for the exposition which you’ve already heard but can’t skip. 

While we’re on the topic of surviving friends and companions,
let me say this: I don’t mind when characters make heroic sacrifices in an
all-consuming war.  It would be silly to
pretend that there wouldn’t be losses.  It
is absurd, however, to have a dying character in my arms while I have not one
or two, but ten medigel loaded up ready to dispense and to have them die
anyway.  I can save bystanders and Salarians,
have researched Alien Medigel, but have suddenly forgotten how to use it?  When we have the capacity to make a
difference, we ought to be allowed to actually make a difference.  Don’t take away that control, yank me out of
the game and make me curse such poor design.

To add insult to injury, there is another point where
Shepard is badly hurt no matter what you do. 
You can’t send squadmates to draw fire. 
You can’t call in support.  You
can’t throw a smoke grenade.  You’re
going to get hit and get crippled, then spend the next 20 minutes moving at ¼
normal speed as you hobble about trying to complete the game while the world is
exploding around you.  All of your fancy
armor and weaponry you spent the entire game collecting?  Useless. 
Gone.  There are a lot of bodies nearby, but you can neither loot weaponry nor
medigel from them.  You can’t call for
help but you can talk to Anderson? I can’t tell you how tedious, annoying and
just plain ridiculous that was. 
Fortunately, there is exactly one weak enemy to kill in that condition –
and they shoot you first in your weakened, shieldless state but somehow fail to
put you out of your misery (but shooting anything else has zero effect, even
the Keepers, which was kind of lame because they were *right there* for the
shooting) but all of this is a completely unnecessary drag on the game.  Moreover the immutable nature of the event
destroys all suspension of disbelief and gives the player the notion that after
all of their work, they have made some critical misstep and are being punished
for it.  Not so, the game designer
apparently just wants to punish you because they can. Ditto for the slow-motion
“dream sequences” where Shepard has to run after the little kid through
a dark forest with shadows in various places. 
Artistic?  Maybe.  Horribly pointless gameplay?  Absolutely.

Following those glaring problems, a resolute player who
intends to see the ending no matter what impediments are thrown in their way and sticks it out,
eventually gets to see control taken away again, the Illusive Man appear in a
room where there is literally nowhere he could have been hiding, a friend shot
in front of them, and then a deux ex machina in the very literal sense creates
a decision for one of three endings which were cribbed almost verbatim from
Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2.  Not only has this
been done before (and you definitely lose points for flat-out taking someone
else’s endings like that) but it establishes three outcomes which are
predetermined and all destroy the Mass Relay stations - - thereby stranding the
remainders of the combined fleets of all of the civilized races in the Sol
system.  Or maybe not.  The ending isn’t very clear and the explosion
of the Mass Relay stations were huge enough that they outshone star systems in
the galaxy view, so they may have obliterated every system where they were
present, in which case Shepard has become the worst mass-murderer in galactic
history, even exceeding the Reapers in this cycle.

You’re left with a situation where Shepard was given no
knowledge of what the Crucible will actually do, and nobody in their right mind
would have deployed it if they did know its’ effects.  You don’t have an option to refuse to use it,
and you don’t have an option to talk the Crucible-child-avatar into a different
path.  You can talk a major character
into killing themselves (wasn’t that already done in ME as well?) but your vast
powers of persuasion so carefully built and nurtured for all of this time has
absolutely zero effect on the ultimate outcome dictated by the star-child
conjured by the Crucible.

If the star-child and avatar of the Crucible lived in the
Citadel and was controlling the Reapers, why couldn’t we have detonated the
Crucible itself and taken the Citadel with it, thereby destroying their control
source and the being that oversaw the destruction of trillions of lives over
millennia of galactic history? Was the Star-Child a real entity or another
rogue AI?  If so, why should a rogue AI
get to dictate how the galaxy proceeds? 
Why was it so cooperative with the Crucible summoning it forth?  Shouldn’t some kind of cosmic exorcism been
possible? Why was there any need to force people into ruining the Mass Effect
universe?  If freedom of choice was one
of the major themes of the series, what good is accomplished by taking that away
from the player?  The net effect of the
ending is to make Shepard’s free will pointless and futile.  Friends fought and bled and died so some
star-child’s schemes were thwarted, but not in any positive or uplifting way.  To finalize the ridiculousness, the Normandy,
presumably fleeing using its' FTL (faster-than-light) drive is overtaken by an
energy wave which, by definition, could not have been travelling faster than
light.



I firmly believe that it is unfair to criticize anything unless you have a
better answer or solution, so here it is: Bioware needs to make a “Hero’s Path”
mod for their own game.  Leave the
artistic integrity of the original alone as far as it goes, let whoever wants
to play the original do so.  Add a choice
screen after the import / character configuration screen to choose the Hero’s
Path option or Original Experience (possibly select other DLC to activate or deactivate too?).  Add
in some of the suggestions above or develop new options which break exposition
into manageable chunks, give depth and background, and impart a sense of true
gravitas and loss of the art, music, culture, wealth, and camaraderie of
humanity.  Remove the unnecessary
annoyances and drags on gameplay and rework the ending so Shepard can really
make some choices about whether to deploy the Crucible, or whether to destroy
the Citadel / Star Child then face down the Reapers.  Perhaps they did not enjoy being controlled
by the Star Child either.  Maybe the
Prothean Reapers or other Reapers might want to talk if they see that Shepard
worked out a resolution with the Geth and has been working just fine with EDI,
or has the last of the Protheans with him. 
Even if Shepard chooses to take over the Reapers, they had the knowledge
to build the Citadel and the Mass Relays, and they are vast in numbers and
powers, so surely they could have rebuilt the relays in little time.

I don’t claim to have all of the answers, but there is so
much room for improvement here, such enormous potential here to explore other
options, other solutions which do not involve the destruction of the galaxy or
the involuntary merger of all living beings with all machine beings that it
needs to be considered.  Thanks for
reading and thinking.  Cheers!

[DannieCraft]

I would love to see changes made to "the journal". At the moment there is no way to keep track of how much you have already done on your quests, especially after scanning your way through the galaxy. The ME1 and ME2 journals were both excellent, telling you that it is time to "turn in" the quest after completing your objective.

And on that point of scanning through the galaxy, it would be nice to be engaged in either battle or escape play rather than just receiving a "critical mission failure/game over" screen if the reapers catch up with you.

I would also like to see some of the little quests received at the citadel changed to be more interactive. I miss the Mako.

Modifié par DannieCraft, 24 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[Motherlander]

This suggestion will not be implemented because i am sure they wont re-work a cit-scene, but I thought I would include it because I like it.

It is the scene where Shepard and the others are charging the Reapers and Separd is hit by the beam and is knocked unconscious.

I think the following would be much better:
- Shepard and others run towards the beam with high casualties as before
- Half way there we see some air support flying in and striking the reaper with missiles hitting it effectively and causing damage.
- Shepard keeps running. There are more casualties
- Just as Shepard nears the beam, we see another cut scene where the attack on the reaper succeeds and the reaper explodes.
- Being near to the explosion, Shepard and others are knocked back by the force.
- Then Shepard gets up wounded just as in origin and moves towards the beam.
- We then see a cut scene of squad members picking themselves up of the ground and shuttle coming in to pick them up.

I know this wont be done. But to me this would be much more dramatic and even logical than the original version. plus we get to see another Reaper destroyed.

[Dreymar]

I'm sure this have may have already been said, but if the journal/quest section could be updated to include the stages of where we are in side quests and priority missions.

I also feel like there hasn't been much of an impact with the origin and notoriety in either mass effect 2 or 3 and I would have liked to have seen more come from that aspect of the game.

Lastly, I would have liked the chance to have former followers as temporary squad mates rather than just cameos, as a slight reward for those of us who took the time to go through the series from the beginning.

[prolix_sintax]

Hi again,

A few days ago, I made this suggestion:

Eliminate the Catalyst/Starchild-thing completely OR give it a corporeal form so Shepard can have a renegade interrupt to punch it in the face:

Since I know that this thread is all about the specifics of how we'd like to see these changes get implemented, I made a video detailing what it could look like:

youtu.be/4eJz4DyRNfw

Please give Renegade Femshep the chance to be herself one last time 

Modifié par prolix_sintax, 24 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[Freestate2nd]

No more half-responses and a confirmation of new endings! PERIOD!
You could expect a big expectation on april,don´t drop the ball!

[KazarianGarnet09]

Since we're talking about changes being made, mostly in hopes of a better ending, I'll list what I feel needs to be addressed.

After playing through the game, the game itself is fine. One of the best I've played in years, however it's the last 10 minutes of the game that kills it. Starting with the run to the beam, that I feel is where the changes need to start. As it is, it feels as though it should be the worse case scenario. You've failed to save your past crew members, the biotics of your ME2 Squadmates.

1. Ending as it is now, is what you get if you fail to save them all. No biotics, no biotic shields in the run to the beam. Plus Aria Army and the Asari Commandos would all be a great help in the run to to the beam.

2a. Save one and get a slightly better run towards the beam, the biotic protecting your squad. All four make it to the beam. If it's Jack, then her students all die in the run. If it's any of the other two, they alone along with your squad survive. This plays out as though you also don't have Aria's Army or the Asari Commandos with you.

2b. If you also have either Aria's Army or the Asari Commandos, then if it's Jack her students survive. More of the ground forces make it to the beam and set up a perimeter, though it most likely wont hold for long.

3. Save two or all three, same as above if you also have Aria's Army and the Asari Commandos. Everyone makes it to the beam, perimeter holds strong and you get the best endings.

In all three cases, the Citadel plays out much differently as you now get more missions to save your past squadmates that were on the Citadel along with C-Sec, Specters and the Council. The more allies you have, the better your odds of saving everyone.

Once that's done players have a final confrontation with TIM, then another with Harbinger. (replacing the star child) You have all new options now, like say, Tali and Edi having reworked the Geth Virus that Legion used in ME2 to take control of the Reapers, or just using the weapon as it is and destroying them (but not the Geth and Edi)

[Celtic Latino]

 Hello. I just want to say I found Mass Effect 3 to be utterly awesome , but for future games and DLC, I will definitely give some suggested changes: 

01.Autodialogue and alignment. Honestly I can't say I enjoyed the autodialogue since Shepard's alignment seems to be narrowed into a single personality. In the first Mass Effect you could play an openly xenophobic Shepard, an uber-idealistic Paragon and....a neutral Shepard, sorely missed since Mass Effect 2. I really didn't like having Shepard narrowed down to a paragade sort of hero, seemed out of character for many of my Shepards. Paragon Shepards shouldn't be blurting out explicitives and renegades shouldn't suddenly care about Thessia. That part I thought took away a lot of the roleplaying aspects that made the first Mass Effect so powerful. 

For future games, consider implementing either a personality system (ala Dragon Age 2) or keep the alignments consistent and possibly separating the story into branching paths. Paragon Shepards should be fighting for the galaxy and Renegade Shepards should be fighting for humanity. And there needs to be a Neutral alignment, including a reputation bar that suits it (the 'green bar') with persuasion options for such characters. 

02. Romance options. I'm not going to try to turn this series into a dating sim, because it isn't, but I was disappointed with the lack of HETEROSEXUAL options for FemShep. Of course there's Kaidan, I understand Thane dying storyline wise, but there's no reason there shouldn't have been a chance to continue a relationship with Jacob or possibly have Vega or Cortez as potential romance candidates. I feel that having all the lesbian f/f options (Allers, Traynor, Liara) more readily available panders to the crowd that enjoys f/f, which there's nothing wrong with that, but there's people who play straight female Shepards too. Plus not everyone finds turians attractive if you know what I mean. <_<

03. The endings. Yes the common thread that plagues every game forum and backlash. At least give us some closure to what happened to everyone after Shepard made his/her decision. I'll even accept epilogue slides like Dragon Age: Origins/Jade Empire. And it really wouldn't have hurt to have a potentially happy ending for those who worked for it. That's all I'm going to say since the endings aren't my only source of feedback. 

04. Please no more celebrity inserts, especially based on video game journalists and fangirls who want some airtime (that's just pandering to IGN and their scores/reviews, not very...well...ethical). Diana Allers was an incredibly bad character, very poorly acted, and had no personality. Easily someone like Gianna Parasini, Emily Wong, Khalisah, or a better modeled and acted Diana could have taken the place of the current character. 

05. I'd like to see variations in terms of the available classes. Biotics should use biotics, techs their omni tool, and soldiers their guns in cutscenes. Dragon Age 2 did this with Legacy where he/she acted based on his/her class and chosen weapon style. 

For example, you have a cutscene where Shepard has to ambush a group of thugs: 
-Soldiers would charge right in, guns blazing, maybe even use a couple rough fists
-Infiltrators would use stealth and either go ninja or snipe them from a corner
-Engineers would probably deploy a drone that circles the thugs unaware and reports back to Shepard
-Vanguards would charge in like the soldier, but with added biotics
-Adepts would deploy a singularity Liara style
-Sentinels...well I'll let you figure that one out 

06. Different default characters and poster boys (and girls). For a game set in the future where the races are mixed, why is the poster boy a blue-eyed white guy? I understand the fans chose the look for default FemShep (not that I use defaults generally speaking), but at least add a variety of defaults, not just two standard Caucasian characters. Like three or four for each gender, depicting African, Latino, and Asian Shepards. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic did this well with their preset faces. Sure there's options in character creation, but many complain the customs don't look as good as the defaults, so I'd really like to see defaults for non-Caucasian characters as well.

07. Multiplayer as a requirement. I really hated that for galactic readiness players were practically forced into multiplayer. I prefer single player games, my reason for suppoting BioWare and other western rpg developers, simply because they can make games I can enjoy by myself. I'm sure many others agree, especially here on BSN. At least add an offline component to single-player for those of us who either cannot access online or simply prefer to play offline. 

08.  Fem Shep needs to be Fem Shep. Not Man Shep with Female assets. Dialogue wise she's definitely FemShep. But movements? She's not a man, so she shouldn't be throwing haymakers and lifting people over her head like one. Has me wondering why Vega would challenge her to a fight, perfect for a ManShep scene, but perhaps something different for FemShep? 

09. Armor classes. I liked them in the first Mass Effect. Soldiers go Light, Medium or Heavy, Vanguards and Infiltrators go Light or Medium, Engineers, Adepts and Sentinels go Light. Gave that rpg feel to the classes. 

10. Shepard should not be able to do everything a.k.a gameplay should be more party based. Tali/EDI/Kaidan should be required for Decyrption and Electronics if you're not playing a Tech class. James/Ashley/Kaidan should be able to tank. Garrus should be useful. You should be forced to have a balanced team instead of Shepard does everything and the squaddies support. The squadmates should be as fully functional and into the combat fray as Shep is. 

Now for what you guys DID right 

-Love the inclusion of James Vega and Cortez. As someone who has hispanic heritage in my blood (and enjoys playing Latino Shepards) I appreciate you guys opened up beyond the standard Anglo-Saxon/European fare and included other characters, especially Cortez as a potential LI (still waiting on Vega but I can't have everything). They were both VERY well written, neither one of them bordered on any stereotypical tropes, not to mention they're both good looking . So thanks from a (partly) latino fan. 

-Samantha Traynor. She sure broke ManShep's heart  (and mine). She's awesome. Well done! 

-The overall story was phenomenal, including parts of the autodialogue. Really like the variations and having much of the closure in-game aside from the endings (which could at least have used more detail, maybe even a final boss). 

[Crocmon]

These endings were just terribly bad form for an otherwise fantastic storyteller. Your writers had good intentions, and sure they could've made a lot of artistic hubbub had these endings been provided in any other franchise. However, these just did not fit.

1) Choices

These games were about our choices. What we chose to do could really bite us in the rear, or really reward us. We were heroes, dicks, whatever we wanted based on our choices and how we viewed the world. We saw things in this way, and that. However, at the very end our choices all ultimately ended up the same and we all ended up relatively dead in each. (Waking up in rubble without Indoctrination is still dead, because the Mass Relays blew up)

2) Speculation

Some speculation is pretty cool. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to give us some freedom for headcanons and the like. However, expecting an ENTIRE ENDING OF A FRANCHISE to be made on the whim of everybody isn't something that we're all going to want. If two people play the game, and hit the endings then what if they make two vastly different conclusions? Then you get people arguing over who is more right. But, since the narrator(s) decided just not to give anyone a good reference point, nobody is right. Nihilism may require this, but seriously why would you give us the ability to speculate when your entire artistic 'meaning' (see: poorly implied schlop) is that nothing matters?

3) Nihilism is NOT the way to put down a game about choices.

If nothing matters, why did we have that illusion for 2.99 games? I wanted to be a hero. I don't care if I die at the end, I wanted to know that I did something that mattered. Not the 'some details are lost to time' schlop that was thrust upon me. Not the Starchild (who is a totally different problem in itself) telling me in no small way that I'm stupid and should never have thought I could defeat his superior (see: circular) logic. The endings were bitter, no 'sweet.' As a friend of mine described the morning after one particular lady he took home, it was 'an hour of sitting in the shower crying' after the ending. Not in the good way. The feelings were the same kind of feelings I felt after being told I was a loser for a large portion of high school. The same kind of feelings I felt after I watched the girl I had a crush on go and get herself into a cycle of abusive relationships then whine to me that nobody would treat her right. That isn't even where the Nihilism ending's feeling stopped though: the endings were like the crush then telling me I wasn't manly enough.

4) The Starchild. Really?

The Starchild was not a good literary device. Who told you to think that way? This in no way accounts for anything at all in the story. He just shows up, makes the Reapers into toys for some spoiled brat, and then calls you 'proof that [his] solution won't work anymore.' Really? I'm proof? What about the rest of society? Why don't I just shove my foot in your ghostly form's ass and throw you off the edge while telling you about how I united the Geth, I made Joker and EDI fall in love, and even unitied the Turians and Krogan? Or was I just the one thing that all other cycles didn't have? Anything and everything that pointed to this plotpoint was illustrated in Javik's dialogue, which was a kind of stab in the stomach at those of which didn't buy the DLC. Yes: JAVIK is the one who mentions how there are cycles within cycles. He's the one who makes that observation. If I didn't put the $10 to get that DLC, I would have been even more enraged.

5) Terminally Ill Patients Don't Even Get This Bad Of A 'Last Day.'

The entire story feels like your last week with taking a man off life support, or grieving something you can't change. Another game did this process right, and that game was The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. The story of Mass Effect, however, illustrates the denial of one's certain death and then the miraculous recovery at which you beat the seemingly terminal illness. Then the ending just slaps you down and says "Guess what you're dead anyways." If you wanted to artistically illustrate the stages of grief, you sure got everything down up until Denial. You never moved off that. As such, you failed to illustrate the entire stages of grief as the Kübler-Ross model explains. You hit Bargaining, but the way you did so was just bad. Starchild is your judge, and your plea bargains are the three ultimately identical endings. You end the world later, end the world now, or end the world and let Joker and EDI have space-magic babies. Had you gone on to show depression better (flashbacks to all our loved ones is actually skipping depression believe it or not) instead of just skipping straight into acceptance, these endings could have had more impact.

Now, on the ending I want and thus suggest you create? I want an ending where I can kill the Reapers and not bone the galactic society I worked so hard to preserve and keep happy. The 'bittersweet' part of it should come from how some died while others lived, or that I may have created a post-War economic depression or something. Closure is part of what I want, but I will not be amused with mere text quips telling me what happened. I will promptly return the game to the store, or put it up on eBay for the price that the xkcd creator put for his infamous check.

[Kogane]

@RaiderKIA

Wow. I really hope that was constructive enough for Bioware; it would be a shame for such an amazing comment to be ignored!

[Osmond]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9949390/1#9950485

Here's my two cents about changes. Its a long post and 10 days old, so I have picked some new thoughts about this depate. But generally it it represents suggestion that could be a win-win to both, fans and BW. Its not perfect (nowhere near now that I think about it) idea but better than the current endings.

[Numdenu]

Crocmon wrote...

*snip*

 I want an ending where I can kill the Reapers and not bone the galactic society I worked so hard to preserve and keep happy. The 'bittersweet' part of it should come from how some died while others lived, or that I may have created a post-War economic depression or something. 

*snip*

THIS PART RIGHT HERE.

THIS SUMS UP THE BEST WAY TO FIX THE ENDING.
RIGHT. HERE.

[Akhara]

Avoiding a "rainbow and puppy" ending is actually quite easy. First of all, regardless of what your choices in ME3 were certain characters died. This adds to the feeling of sacrifice  that I beleive was supposed to be portrayed during the game. During the ending however, Shepard does not have to die in order to create a bittersweet ending. One of my favorite scenes at the end were the final moments before Anderson died. That scene in itself created a bittersweet ending...considering the long lasting friendship between Anderson and Shepard since ME1.

It is also possible to have an ending in which Shepard lives....but does not come out unscathed. Who says all of his arms and legs have to still be attached. Who says he doesnt come out with some terrible scarring. A great movie that got this message across was How to Train a Dragon. Even though it was a kid's film, the fact that the hero lost his leg at the end of the movie created a great bittersweet moment at the end of a primarily happy film. There are other great examples of this in other sources.

I beleive having an ending where the hero does not comes out unscathed...but ultimitely survives...creates  a bittersweet ending that still carries the theme of an individual overcoming insurmountable odds. This style of ending could appeal to both the 'happy' and 'we dont like sunshine and rainbows' crowds.

This would also create some great banter b/w Shepard and Garrus in regards to their marks and war wounds.

[Celtic Latino]

Numdenu wrote...

Crocmon wrote...

*snip*

 I want an ending where I can kill the Reapers and not bone the galactic society I worked so hard to preserve and keep happy. The 'bittersweet' part of it should come from how some died while others lived, or that I may have created a post-War economic depression or something. 

*snip*

THIS PART RIGHT HERE.

THIS SUMS UP THE BEST WAY TO FIX THE ENDING.
RIGHT. HERE.

Seconded. Not everyone's going to live obviously. Plus I agree with the above poster regarding the fact that Shep may indeed not be unscathed. Trapped beneath that rubble I don't think the Lazarus project's going to work a second time on those limbs. 

[Millmedda]

Dear Bioware!

I have already commented on this thread, but I have to do it again.

I know that there is minimal chance for this, but the best idea I think would be if it would turn out that the Reapers goal is beyond this synthetic-organic debate. Thier goal shoud be something greater , like something that threatens all forms of life in the galaxy.

This would be a true catharsis to know that the Reapers are not the true enemy , only the renegade solution ( Harvesting races to create more Reapers ) to the main problem. Then at the end they would explain it to Shepard. Then Shepard could choose the option of the Reapers (renegade) or something else (paragon) , like refuse them and destroy them to face this threat "alone" alongside with the other races of the galaxy.

And maybe this could be an idea for the next ME game.

[LucyMaire]

I'll make this short.
I would love better treatment of the ME2 romances!! I don't think it's fair that you prioritized Liara Kaidan/Ashley and Garrus over all of the other romances. It's not fair to your fans who adore your other beautiful characters.
And I also think that since you hinted towards there being a cure for Thane in ME2, and said he was viable for a lung transplant, that there should be a possibility to cure him. I think the emotional impact would remain intact if you had his cure come at a price.
And if you don't decide to do this, please have people actually acknowledge his death. Especially since my Shepard loved him, but didn't seem to care at all afterwards.
Thank you.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Celtic Latino wrote...

Seconded. Not everyone's going to live obviously. Plus I agree with the above poster regarding the fact that Shep may indeed not be unscathed. Trapped beneath that rubble I don't think the Lazarus project's going to work a second time on those limbs. 

Thired, also:

NO CLARIFICATION.  We want none of that, zip, zero, nada, ziltch.  We want a fix, clarification is not a fix.

I am trying extremely hard to remain contructive, but the announcement from your twitter yesterday was a major WTF moment.  We had been saying for the past 48 hours that clarification would not work, seemed to have been ignored.

[raeting]

Hiya, I'm going to try to keep this terse for the sake of those collating this info. I'm also only going over suggested changes, I generally find things in the game to be spot on (besides what's discussed below).

To be clear, I wasn't a fan of the star child & three choices overall. I understand the varied ways to interpret the ending, and to some degree do enjoy reading and thinking about those interpretations. I have plenty of my own thoughts about the ending. It was, however, very out of place. 

Three things, more than anything, else obliterated my immersion in the moment. First, Shepard simply submits to the star child. I understand a lot of reasons why this might be the case, but they all require me to fill in too many holes about what's going on in my character's head than I'm comfortable with in a game of this type. I needed a bit more 'showing' as to why Shepard would act this way. Second, EDI and the Geth were not mentioned in the final dialogue. Even if the banter is futile, it is an obvious point to make and immediately popped into my head when the child discussed the created overthrowing their creators. That needs to be answered. Third, the cooperation with the reapers. The child seemed rather contrived, to be honest. A stretched play at the dreams and an overreach for symbolism. I think the child would be perfect if the indoctrination theory were true, but I'm fairly certain it is not. Had vigil, or something like it, appeared and told Shepard the crucible's capability, I'd have a much easier time accepting the '3 choice' ending. Such a thing could appear and logically explain that over the millenia different races gave the crucible different abilities. These are the choices available, choose quickly. Getting such a lecture from what amounts to a Reaper amounts to "D'awwe, you tried so very hard! Ok, I'll throw you a bone, pitiful human."

That said, I am ok with the '3 choice' ending. I do not consider it good ending, or writing for that matter. If you changed the ending, I'd be very, very ok with that. Regardless, I can accept it. My moment of outrage didn't come until the credits rolled. 

The lack of an epilogue is what completely obliterated the game for me. I know that sounds silly and trite, I couldn't believe it myself, but as time wore on it did. Why? Because as far as I knew, Bioware had said in no uncertain terms that this was the end of Shepard's story, and there would be no post-ending DLC. 

To be clear, as a bit of a cliffhanger, this would have been fine. As a solid ending to a trilogy it is not. At all. I literally would have been more accepting of an ending in which it was obvious you stopped the reaper cycle, but in doing so you (without question -- that's the important part) also obliterated every technologically advanced species in existance. I would have disliked that, but I wouldn't be here on the forums complaining about it. It gives closure.

So, my most important request is an epilogue. These are the questions I'm hoping to have answered. I do not expect the answers to be happy, but I do want to know.

• What happens to each of the squadmates after the battle?
• What happens to the Normandy? Do they stay on that planet? Leave? Etc.
• Do the exploding mass relays cause a lot of destruction? If so, how much, exactly?
• Does FTL travel still exist? (FTL drives are reaper tech, did they go away?)
• If the fleet around earth still exists, what does it do?
• In general, what does Earth look like after the battle? Wasteland? Do a lot of aliens stay? Is the future bright or bleak for Sol?
• What happens to Rannoch? Did the Quarians go all-in on Earth, or did enough stay behind to repopulate their homeworld? (this didn't need to be in the epilogue, just a little quip from Tali about it pre-battle would've been great)

That's enough to give me closure. Especially if there is a game planned to occur after this event. I can find outabout the krogan, rachni -- Shepard's far-reaching choices -- then. If it is known Bioware will never make a game set after this point, then I would enjoy seeing what happens to those species, and others, in the epilogue.

I don't expect anything fancy. A slideshow would do it for me. Playable content would be awesome -- and I'd have an easier time paying for it -- but a slideshow will sate me. Even a blog post would, to be honest, as long as I know it is canon.

I'm fine paying for DLC of this sort myself. Though I seem to be in the minority on that.

Modifié par raeting, 24 mars 2012 - 10:09 .

[InMyOwnImage]

To begin, I have to say that I liked the concept of the choices in the endings of Mass Effect, except Synthesis. However, what I was disappointed with was that with the destruction of the Mass Relays, everything you did means nothing. The krogan can never return to Tunchunka, the quarians can't get back to Rannoch, etc.

My idea for an ending, would be:

Keep pretty much everything the same up until Harbinger arrives. He decimates the Hammer team and leaves you broken and unconscious.

(It could pick up here if the Indoctrination Theory is true)

Shepard slowly recovers and is helped up by his allies as Harbinger looms over him. Harbinger compliments Shepard for his resilience but tells him that his efforts are futile. As you speak with Harbinger, thousands of Reaper forces gather around the Beam. Husks, Cannibals, Banshees, Brutes, Harvesters, maybe even som Scions. Harbinger tells them to destroy you as you all prepare to fight a lost battle.

Suddenly, a few Turian Fighters fly by and bombard the enemies. All of Shepards allies come charging towards them, several thousand strong. Wrex and Grunt lead a force of krogan. The Rachni Queen charges with her brood. Jack and her biotics charge in for support. Elcors, Turians, Drells, Geth, etc. Everyone who was in your party from ME2 or ME3 is in this vast army. That force begins clashing with the Reaper forces. As that happens, Harbinger begins firing into the crowds. Aerial support begins to bombard Harbinger, who fires back in retaliation.

If your EMS is HIGH - Your army holds the ground forces strong and the aerial units will keep Harbingers attention. You have to run through the battlefield and avoid some of Harbingers occasional attacks and retrieve two or three Cains and blast him before grabbing an Orbital Targeting Laser and linking it to any three fleets of you choice (turian, quarian, volus, geth, human, etc.). You then lock on to Harninger and blast him twice, dropping him to the ground. Shepard and all his ME3 party enter the Beam.

If your EMS is MEDIUM - Same as above, except that you will occasionally be attacked by Reaper forces while searching for the Cains and Orbital Laser. Harbinger will also take more shots at you. After Harbinger is defeated, you may suffer some ally losses when charging the Beam.

If your EMS is LOW - Same as HIGH, except that you will be alomst constantly attacked by Reaper forces and Harbinger will take even more shots at you. You will definitely lose allies when charging the Beam.

You beam up to the Citadel and are met by some of the survivors. You tell them to stay safe and out of the way as you and any surviving team members try to find the arm controls. Along the way you are attacked by Reaper and Cerberus troops. You can use your allies to hold the lines to prevent troops from pursuing you. Your Love Interest will insist on going with you. Eventually you will reach the Arm Control terminal and be met by the Illusive Man. He will tell you that you are just in time to see that you were wrong as he takes control of the Reapers. You engage him in conversation and can attempt to make him realize he is Indoctrinated. He refuses to listen and goes to open the arms. As he does he begins spasming and begging you to help him.

Harbingers voice rumbles through room.

"ASSUMING CONTROL".

TIM turns back to you, his eyes glimmering yellow. Harbinger tells you that you cannot stop the pattern. He tells you that none have been able to stand against them, that the pattern has insured none would rise to stand against them. He tells you that if you do not stop, he will stop you. You now face TIM/Harbinger, who fights like a souped up Banshee. After defeating him, he falls to the ground and Harbinger says a few words before TIM's eyes dim.

Shepard and his allies open the arms and then have to fight their way to the Catalyst Chamber. After reaching the room, TIM/Harbinger appears once more, his eyes flickering due to how weak he has become. He tells you that if you destroy the Reapers, you too will die, as you will not survive the process. He tells you that you could try to control them, a process that will might survive. He also then offers you a deal, he will spare you and your armies, and only take the rest of the Galaxy. Harbinger dies regardless of your decision, having expended all of his energy, but tells you that your victory through the Crucible means nothing. He tells you all the races are simply proving how weak they are.

If your EMS is HIGH and choose DESTROY - Shepard bids farewell to his friends and LI before merging with the energy of the Crucible. He looses a massive wave of energy, guided out by the Mass Relays. All Reapers are destroyed, and the Galaxy forever remembers the Sacrifice of Shepard.

If your EMS is MEDIUM - Same as above except you only weaken the Reapers. You army is still able to win, but at a massive cost in casualties.

If your EMS is LOW - Same as above, except the wave barely effects the Reapers. They win and the Cycle continues.

If your EMS is HIGH and choose CONTROL - Shepard bids farwell, not knowing what will happen. He takes control of the Reapers and sends them back to Dark Space. Shepard is badly wounded by the effort and takes many years to recover. The galaxy is at peace.

If your EMS is MEDIUM and choose CONTROL - Same as above, but Shepard dies.

If your EMS is LOW and choose CONTROL - Same as above, but not all Reapers are effected. The controlled Reapers fight the others, and defeat them causing fairly substantial collateral damage.

If you take Harbingers DEAL - The Reapers withdraw and harvest the rest of the universe. Your army slowly rebuilds the universe, and prepares for the day the Reapers return.

You can also decide to prove Harbinger wrong - You refuse to use the Crucible and the final battle is determined by your EMS. The highest EMS allows your armies to win while MEDIUM ends with catastrophic loss with a victory and LOW ends with your destruction.

Then have an Epilogue telling you how the Galaxy and all races and allies recovered from the war.

Modifié par InMyOwnImage, 24 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[The_Crazy_Hand]

A final boss fight with Harbinger would aalso be nice, please don't shoot it down as "too video-gamey" either. It is a video game, it should be video-gamey.

[JosieFrances]

I don't have a huge problem with the ending, I can compeletely make my peice with it if, that is not the complete end of our Commander Shepards. I like the idea of maybe even if you have to work for the Shepard that breathes at the end. Do that but then your story continues in DLC, even if it's only a little bit. Theres things i'd love to see before saying goodbye to my story with my Commander Shepard.

I play a female shepard and I romance Kaidan Alenko and for me giving us that dialogue with him in London (which by the way was so emotional and amazingly touching!) and then not seeing him at the end of the game when The Reapers are defeated, upset me so much! Same with my crew members, especially Garrus, and again his goodbye was so touching!

I can understand us not seeing them yet though and giving us the option of having a suprise ending to work towards where Shepard breathes, that makes sense aslong as you please Bioware, take it somewhere awesome to end the story with our Commander Shepards. (If your plan is to end it of course) by all means make a Mass Effect 4 with the same characters  but even if you don't, and just plan to bring out DLC, all I ask is that you please let us see our crew who we have spent so much time gathering, fighting with and making bonds with on the Mass Effect journey. And especially please let us see our love interests again because Kaidan is such an important character in the game for me and ending my Mass Effect journey without knowing and feeling content about what happens with our love interests really bothers me. Please give us some dialogue with our love interests so we can give our journeys a proper send off.

I still think you are the best game developers around and I love all your games, from Jade Empire to the Dragon Age franchise. The Mass Effect franchise is by far my favourite and if our journey with our Commander Shepards is set to end here then please give us a good send off with the characters we love most!

Thank you Bioware for creating the greatest franchise around and giving us the greatest journey! I still think Mass Effect 3 is the greatest game I have ever played, but I can't let go yet, not with the way it has been left.

Thank you so much again Bioware for listening to us and taking our opinions and feelings on the game into consideration.

[Laser-Eyes]

Seriously, need a Cure Thane DLC or something! The hetero Femshep romances were handled horribly! I felt like I was being pushed to be with Kaidan (whom I dislike) or forced to have one of many lesbian romances. The Jacob and Thane romances were handled extremely poorly, considering Maleshep still gets to have some kind of relationship with Jack or Miranda.

[Pappi]

I thought the Garrus romance was awesome though--for femshep. Probably one of the best romances