Suggestion:
Identify the internal people who warned you in advance that you are making a terrible mistake with the ending. Promote them.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
Débuté par
RaenImrahl
, mars 17 2012 03:00
Retour en haut
#502
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:28
MStango
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- Members
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What I Loved
Most of the Story
The Characters
The Combat
What I liked
Sound Design
Voice Acting
Graphics
Multiplayer
What I didn’t like
No Puzzles
Side Quests were all Fetch Quests
No Loyally Quests
No Planet Exploration
Lack of Varity in Weapon Mods
Lack of Varity in Armor
Very Few Boss Battles
No Vehicles
No Tank, no Hovercraft and no space combat. Some how I thought Starship combat would be part of this game, especially consider the Giant Space Cuttlefish so tantalizingly set up over the course of the series.
People wearing cloths in the shower
…why? Just why?
What I hated
The Crucible
It seemed like an aggressively intrusive plot contrivance that made the Reaper threat seem like far less of a problem. Instead of needing many things (better ships, weapons, strategies, ext) and a plot that could have been centered around building all that up in a reasonable and understandable way. So that in the end the heros could fight back and possibly win. instead the game centers around a big Mcgoven.
The Catalysis
I’ve Heard the Term Deus Ex Machina and seen it employed, but I can’t say I ever literally(in a game) met the god in a machine.
No Possibility for Candy Cain Lane
If you’re going to include a plot device to fix the galaxy’s squid problem then why do so many of the press releases talk about a bittersweet ending; you realizes it‘s not really possible to marry the two. It’s kind of hard to mentally square tough real world consequences with a miraculous problem solving lever that comes out of nowhere. It kills any sense of tragedy. It just makes me wonder: What was the point of the previous games if in this one a magic sword was going to fall from the sky and do our work for us.
One top of that the sow sacrificial archetype is so tired, especially when it’s clearly unnecessary, why do the Reapers only obey a disintegrated person and why is said disintegration necessary to turn every one into a cyborg? It doesn’t even make sense for those Shepherds who actually did every quest and did it in Paragon fashion, with all that surplus military power why is the Crucible even necessary? I don’t think a “possible” happy ending is to unreasonable.
Lack of an Epilog
The game just kind of ends, no real closure, no explanation as to why the Normandy wasn't at earth fighting with the rest of the Fleet.
Most of the Story
The Characters
The Combat
What I liked
Sound Design
Voice Acting
Graphics
Multiplayer
What I didn’t like
No Puzzles
Side Quests were all Fetch Quests
No Loyally Quests
No Planet Exploration
Lack of Varity in Weapon Mods
Lack of Varity in Armor
Very Few Boss Battles
No Vehicles
No Tank, no Hovercraft and no space combat. Some how I thought Starship combat would be part of this game, especially consider the Giant Space Cuttlefish so tantalizingly set up over the course of the series.
People wearing cloths in the shower
…why? Just why?
What I hated
The Crucible
It seemed like an aggressively intrusive plot contrivance that made the Reaper threat seem like far less of a problem. Instead of needing many things (better ships, weapons, strategies, ext) and a plot that could have been centered around building all that up in a reasonable and understandable way. So that in the end the heros could fight back and possibly win. instead the game centers around a big Mcgoven.
The Catalysis
I’ve Heard the Term Deus Ex Machina and seen it employed, but I can’t say I ever literally(in a game) met the god in a machine.
No Possibility for Candy Cain Lane
If you’re going to include a plot device to fix the galaxy’s squid problem then why do so many of the press releases talk about a bittersweet ending; you realizes it‘s not really possible to marry the two. It’s kind of hard to mentally square tough real world consequences with a miraculous problem solving lever that comes out of nowhere. It kills any sense of tragedy. It just makes me wonder: What was the point of the previous games if in this one a magic sword was going to fall from the sky and do our work for us.
One top of that the sow sacrificial archetype is so tired, especially when it’s clearly unnecessary, why do the Reapers only obey a disintegrated person and why is said disintegration necessary to turn every one into a cyborg? It doesn’t even make sense for those Shepherds who actually did every quest and did it in Paragon fashion, with all that surplus military power why is the Crucible even necessary? I don’t think a “possible” happy ending is to unreasonable.
Lack of an Epilog
The game just kind of ends, no real closure, no explanation as to why the Normandy wasn't at earth fighting with the rest of the Fleet.
Modifié par MStango, 17 mars 2012 - 04:37 .
#503
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:29
Lunatic LK47
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Reign Tsumiraki wrote...
Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...
*copypasta*
1. Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes.
2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.
3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:
Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.
Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.
Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.
Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.
High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers.
High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.
Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion.
In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.
To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.
The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.
The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
Synthesis Take down Sheilds
__________/
( )
Destroy --------( ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
( )
-----------------
/
Control Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.
EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.
5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.
EXAMPLE:
Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).
Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”
Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.
Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity
Ect.
6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM.
Anyway, that's my whole view on it.
THIS WAY:
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place.
How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone.
Finally. Just one last thing to add: Remove the mandatory need for multiplayer to get a better Effective Military Strength score. eadiness. As it is, playing exclusively SP is more of a hassle for a marketing strategy that says "Getting the optimal ending is possible with single-player", which ended up being an outright lie on Jarett Lee's behalf (i.e. Coming from someone with an ME1 and ME2 import, players are still short on war assets DESPITE 100%ing the side missions.)
#504
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:29
mkriddle4232
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So someone on the retakemasseffect facebook just posted this. "....READ THIS S*** At this time, BioWare is not in the business of developing or publishing outside proposals or submissions for new games or software products. As a result, all unsolicited submissions, proposals or ideas relating to game concepts, story ideas, or other proposals cannot be accepted and will be destroyed upon receipt. my response to my email to them for the campaign"
#505
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:29
Lendorien
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Alright, I'll start with the things I loved about ME3.
The game is rich in character development. I felt the character writing was a bit stronger than with some of the other games, even with some many characters to keep track of. I loved the decision to make the characters more organic on the Normandy, moving around, having conversations and such. It made them more real. I loved walking into Liara's quarters and hearing her talking to glyph. It really helped breath life into the game and the characters.
I like James Vega a lot. I know some people didn't but I felt he was sort of a stabilizing presence, the average joe, thrown into Shepherd's crazy world.
I also loved how various threads from the other games were actually followed up on and some even wrapped up. Rana Thanoptis comes to mind among others.
The visuals were great. Level design was far grander than in other games. It is clear that effort was made in art design to outdo the previous games, and it sure shows.
99% of this game was pretty amazing. I think most of us all agree on that.
Now to the things I didn't like.
The auto-dialog was a little distracting. Places gamers were used to having control of conversations were skipped. You got used to it after a time, but I felt like I was missing out on something. In future DLC, it'd be nice to go back to the old style or ME1 and 2.
Some of the characters didn't get proper coverage, especially if they were a Love Interest. Jack comes to mind.
The end. Well, you already know we hated it. The Gamefront article multiple people have linked to explains why we had a problem with it pretty succinctly.
1) There is no closure. Look, you guys created an amazing universe, characters that we have come to absolutely love and a story we really care about. The end wraps it up and you leave us all hanging, not knowing who survived and who died or even if the universe is even ok. You ended the game creating endless questions, something that is bad form when you're trying to wrap up a series.
Where did this Catalyst come from? Why did the catalyst's dialog contradict how the reapers have previously been presented? The catalyst comes out of nowhere and just creates endless speculation. Yeah, that's what was apparently intended, but frankly, we were led to believe through interviews that this would NOT be a "Lost" kind of ending and there would be closure and answers. The Lost ending is pretty much what we were given.
Give us answers. Don't pull a random character out of nowhere that has nothing to do with everything we've done up to that point. Give us a confrontation with known quantities, such as Harbringer. This is why people like the Indoctrination theory so much, because it brings focus back to the reapers, the threat we've been focusing on since the first game, not some random character introduced at the eleventh hour!
What's more, give us an epilogue. Tell us what happened to the people we care about. We spent 3 games getting to know them, love them, appreciate them and at the end, nothing. Don't leave us hanging. Tell us what happened to them. Did they live, die? Cough a hairball? Tell us something!
2) The end makes no sense given Shepherd's character. Shepherd is a character that doesn't give up. He fights against all odds time and time again, and he defies them. Twice he's done the impossible, defeated the undefeatable, and he has always questioned the expectation of failure. But in the ending we were given, Shepherd gamely just goes along with the Catalyst and does what the Catalyst tells him to. That is NOT the Shepherd from the previous two games or even ME3 up to that point. For many fans this is game breaking because it is completely out of character for him/her. Shepherd as written in ME1 and 2 would have questioned, challenged and defied the Catalyst, especially given that his own action in the preceding few missions may very well have proved the Catalyst wrong (Geth and quarians).
Give Shepherd control of his situation. The game has long been about choice. Let us have choices and let us have ones that fit Shepherd's character depending on how he has been played, what war assets you have, allies, etc. Don't give us a one size fits all end. Fit it to the Shepherd we played!
3) The Normandy bit is completely nonsensical. Did Joker flee the fight? How did your crewmates get on board her... especially the ones you just saw get blasted? Why was he flying through the relays?
4) We didn't get to Take Back Earth. Where were the cut scenes with your war assets, or even gameplay involving using them? What was the point of even bothering? Where was the payoff. You didn't give us any reward for doing all of that work and drawing the galaxy together to help Earth. It could have been awesome seeing the reapers getting their butts kicked, or at least somewhat bruised. Let's see the Krogan kicking ass. The Rachni taking revenge for the soured notes, Jack and her students doing biotic artillery strikes, the Elcor living tanks, etc.
Instead we see nothing and it all feels like we wasted our time. Give us a payoff for working so hard to unite the galaxy!
5) The reason so many fan are upset is because the current end destroys the galaxy as we know it and give us zero emotional payout for it. We don't even know if our friends survived, if the fleet around Earth survived, if other races survived. Nothing. Just colored lights and the knowledge that all the relays are gone and people we care about are stabnded on Earth and will rpobably die.
If you're going to change the face of the galaxy, make it MEAN something. Show us what our choices have wrought. Don't leave us hanging with no idea what just happened.
6) The end defies the themes of the other games. Up to this point, ME was about co-operation, defying the odds, doing things that other people don't think are possible, bringing people who hate each other together under a common cause. It also was about how the diversity of the galaxy can be an asset and how despite differences, people from diverse cultures and races can work together, come to respect and love one another. It was an empowering and incredibly powerful message.
The end has us either destroying people we care about or using some sort of weird space magic to make everyone homogeneous, part synthetic/organic. The same. That's not what ME was about. And frankly, it saddens me that apparently the best ending is about making everyone like everyone else. So much for diversity... especially in a game that actually took such a bold step to embrace male homosexuals.
~*~
I really don't mind if Shepherd dies. Like others, I think we hoped he might live, or there might be a possibility that if you do everything just exactly right that he might survive. We don't mind sad endings. We just want endings that make sense. We want endings that fit in with the lore of the rest of the games of the series. We want endings with a real emotional payout.
The ending as it stands has an emotional payout, but it's one that breaks immersion. It makes players angry, not at the universe or the characters in the story, but at the game makers for making things so unfulfilling. This is not the emotional payload any game maker should want.
I'm am thrilled that you're taking feedback about this. Thank you so much for listening to us fan. I tryuly hope you listen to the many voices and find a solution that will help make ME3 the great game it could have been.
The game is rich in character development. I felt the character writing was a bit stronger than with some of the other games, even with some many characters to keep track of. I loved the decision to make the characters more organic on the Normandy, moving around, having conversations and such. It made them more real. I loved walking into Liara's quarters and hearing her talking to glyph. It really helped breath life into the game and the characters.
I like James Vega a lot. I know some people didn't but I felt he was sort of a stabilizing presence, the average joe, thrown into Shepherd's crazy world.
I also loved how various threads from the other games were actually followed up on and some even wrapped up. Rana Thanoptis comes to mind among others.
The visuals were great. Level design was far grander than in other games. It is clear that effort was made in art design to outdo the previous games, and it sure shows.
99% of this game was pretty amazing. I think most of us all agree on that.
Now to the things I didn't like.
The auto-dialog was a little distracting. Places gamers were used to having control of conversations were skipped. You got used to it after a time, but I felt like I was missing out on something. In future DLC, it'd be nice to go back to the old style or ME1 and 2.
Some of the characters didn't get proper coverage, especially if they were a Love Interest. Jack comes to mind.
The end. Well, you already know we hated it. The Gamefront article multiple people have linked to explains why we had a problem with it pretty succinctly.
1) There is no closure. Look, you guys created an amazing universe, characters that we have come to absolutely love and a story we really care about. The end wraps it up and you leave us all hanging, not knowing who survived and who died or even if the universe is even ok. You ended the game creating endless questions, something that is bad form when you're trying to wrap up a series.
Where did this Catalyst come from? Why did the catalyst's dialog contradict how the reapers have previously been presented? The catalyst comes out of nowhere and just creates endless speculation. Yeah, that's what was apparently intended, but frankly, we were led to believe through interviews that this would NOT be a "Lost" kind of ending and there would be closure and answers. The Lost ending is pretty much what we were given.
Give us answers. Don't pull a random character out of nowhere that has nothing to do with everything we've done up to that point. Give us a confrontation with known quantities, such as Harbringer. This is why people like the Indoctrination theory so much, because it brings focus back to the reapers, the threat we've been focusing on since the first game, not some random character introduced at the eleventh hour!
What's more, give us an epilogue. Tell us what happened to the people we care about. We spent 3 games getting to know them, love them, appreciate them and at the end, nothing. Don't leave us hanging. Tell us what happened to them. Did they live, die? Cough a hairball? Tell us something!
2) The end makes no sense given Shepherd's character. Shepherd is a character that doesn't give up. He fights against all odds time and time again, and he defies them. Twice he's done the impossible, defeated the undefeatable, and he has always questioned the expectation of failure. But in the ending we were given, Shepherd gamely just goes along with the Catalyst and does what the Catalyst tells him to. That is NOT the Shepherd from the previous two games or even ME3 up to that point. For many fans this is game breaking because it is completely out of character for him/her. Shepherd as written in ME1 and 2 would have questioned, challenged and defied the Catalyst, especially given that his own action in the preceding few missions may very well have proved the Catalyst wrong (Geth and quarians).
Give Shepherd control of his situation. The game has long been about choice. Let us have choices and let us have ones that fit Shepherd's character depending on how he has been played, what war assets you have, allies, etc. Don't give us a one size fits all end. Fit it to the Shepherd we played!
3) The Normandy bit is completely nonsensical. Did Joker flee the fight? How did your crewmates get on board her... especially the ones you just saw get blasted? Why was he flying through the relays?
4) We didn't get to Take Back Earth. Where were the cut scenes with your war assets, or even gameplay involving using them? What was the point of even bothering? Where was the payoff. You didn't give us any reward for doing all of that work and drawing the galaxy together to help Earth. It could have been awesome seeing the reapers getting their butts kicked, or at least somewhat bruised. Let's see the Krogan kicking ass. The Rachni taking revenge for the soured notes, Jack and her students doing biotic artillery strikes, the Elcor living tanks, etc.
Instead we see nothing and it all feels like we wasted our time. Give us a payoff for working so hard to unite the galaxy!
5) The reason so many fan are upset is because the current end destroys the galaxy as we know it and give us zero emotional payout for it. We don't even know if our friends survived, if the fleet around Earth survived, if other races survived. Nothing. Just colored lights and the knowledge that all the relays are gone and people we care about are stabnded on Earth and will rpobably die.
If you're going to change the face of the galaxy, make it MEAN something. Show us what our choices have wrought. Don't leave us hanging with no idea what just happened.
6) The end defies the themes of the other games. Up to this point, ME was about co-operation, defying the odds, doing things that other people don't think are possible, bringing people who hate each other together under a common cause. It also was about how the diversity of the galaxy can be an asset and how despite differences, people from diverse cultures and races can work together, come to respect and love one another. It was an empowering and incredibly powerful message.
The end has us either destroying people we care about or using some sort of weird space magic to make everyone homogeneous, part synthetic/organic. The same. That's not what ME was about. And frankly, it saddens me that apparently the best ending is about making everyone like everyone else. So much for diversity... especially in a game that actually took such a bold step to embrace male homosexuals.
~*~
I really don't mind if Shepherd dies. Like others, I think we hoped he might live, or there might be a possibility that if you do everything just exactly right that he might survive. We don't mind sad endings. We just want endings that make sense. We want endings that fit in with the lore of the rest of the games of the series. We want endings with a real emotional payout.
The ending as it stands has an emotional payout, but it's one that breaks immersion. It makes players angry, not at the universe or the characters in the story, but at the game makers for making things so unfulfilling. This is not the emotional payload any game maker should want.
I'm am thrilled that you're taking feedback about this. Thank you so much for listening to us fan. I tryuly hope you listen to the many voices and find a solution that will help make ME3 the great game it could have been.
Modifié par Lendorien, 17 mars 2012 - 05:04 .
#506
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:29
dos1990
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Reign Tsumiraki wrote...
Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...
*copypasta*
1. Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes.
2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.
3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:
Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.
Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.
Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.
Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.
High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers.
High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.
Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion.
In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.
To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.
The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.
The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
Synthesis Take down Sheilds
__________/
( )
Destroy --------( ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
( )
-----------------
/
Control Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.
EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.
5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.
EXAMPLE:
Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).
Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”
Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.
Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity
Ect.
6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM.
Anyway, that's my whole view on it.
THIS WAY:
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place.
How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone.
I hope its okay to quote! reading this post i saw that its exactly what i would say!
i want the indoctrination theory to be true but if it does not turn out to be that way then this is perfect casue we get what we want and the writers keep their endings.
everyones happy.BTW the game was spectacular, the greatest game ive ever played. up until the last 5 minutes.
#507
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:30
pikey1969
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I am going to repost someone else's post here, because I believe it sums up my issues with the endings the best.
Realistically, it's gonna be easier to do a cheesy/plot-holefixing/happy ending. Or add some dialog options or something to the existing format and give different options, perhaps to convince the child to perform a different 'magic trick' or something.
However, if you were doing a REAL CHUNKY DLC designed to 'readjust' the ending and this correspondence isn't a PR damage control, I'd like to see an ending that addresses problems brought up by the following post from a Bioware Social member named, Eternalsteelfan.
Realistically, it's gonna be easier to do a cheesy/plot-holefixing/happy ending. Or add some dialog options or something to the existing format and give different options, perhaps to convince the child to perform a different 'magic trick' or something.
However, if you were doing a REAL CHUNKY DLC designed to 'readjust' the ending and this correspondence isn't a PR damage control, I'd like to see an ending that addresses problems brought up by the following post from a Bioware Social member named, Eternalsteelfan.
Eternalsteelfan wrote...
A. First, a few pet peeves. Tropes are very popular for making generalizations about parts of stories we dislike, but they have a tendency to be overused and misused.
The Crucible isn't a MacGuffin. The best and most common example of an actual MacGuffin is the briefcase in Pulp Fiction; we don't know what is in the briefcase and we don't know how or why it functions, but it's important because it motivates the characters and drives the plot. Basically, a MacGuffin is important only because it's important. The Crucible in Mass Effect 3 is an actual plot device (a MacGuffin is a very specific subset of this); we are told what it is and what it's function is right from the beginning and it's use in the climax is in line with this.
The Crucible isn't an example of deus ex machina. Again, we know all along that the Crucible's function is to stop the Reapers, it's introduced at the beginning of the story, it's importance is reinforced throughout, and it's function during the climax is in line with what is expected. An example of Mass Effect ending with deus ex machina would be: the Reapers win the battle of Earth and are seemingly unstoppable, suddenly, and with no previous justification, an even more advanced race emerges from deep space and destroys the Reapers, saving Earth. The difference is obvious; one is a clearly defined plot device, the other is a magical fix with no precedent in the story.
Being the only time I'm going to talk about tropes, and for humorous purposes only, here are some I find more accurate for the ending: the lack of resolution after all the setting-shifting events, especially the lack of clarity in regards to the future of the setting and it's characters (including the protagonist and in some cases the antagonist force) may be considered no ending, the Reaper-God-Child and unexpected side effects of the Crucible may be considered diabolus ex machina, and the sudden shift of themes from hope and fighting the impossible fight to that of true art is angsty can be seen as an example of a sudden downer ending. I'm certain there are more we can shoehorn as applicable, but this is as far as I'm willing to go into tropes.
I want to iterate that I dislike how much we over analyze tropes and assign them as labels to similar and overgeneralized devices and themes. Stories are usually divergent enough from other stories that generalizing aspects of them with tropes rarely do them justice and are ambigous enough that what tropes a story actually uses are debatable. I only addressed the aforementioned devices of deus ex machina and MacGuffin because they are venerable and distinct enough that their usage in reference to Mass Effect 3 is clearly wrong. TL;DR: tropes are convenient but our time is better spent looking at the specifics of a given story.
B. The resolution of Mass Effect 3 falls short for many reasons. More than I'd care to get into, truth be told, so I'll try to punch on at least some of the major failings through the eyes of a screenwriter.
1. The ending feels jarring and out of place and there is little closure, this is a sympton of the ending failing to live up to what we come expect from the story. As I've previously said, "Mass Effect is a conventional story with conventional expectations". A conventional story, almost all stories, follow a pretty standard plotline: Introduction - Ascending Action - Climax - Descending Action - Resolution. In film we break it up into 3 acts, roughly: the first act is the introduction, the second act is the rising action and longest act of the story, and the third act is the climax and resolution.
Mass Effect 3 and the previous games follow this plotline both as individual stories and in the grand scheme of things as a trilogy (a trilogy is basically the three act structure writ large), that is until the final moments of 3. For reference, The battle for Earth is the climax of the series and the run across no man's land to the Citadel beam is the climax of the specific game; with this in mind, the Citadel sequence is the final part of the descending action and the resolution for both the game and series, the part where the antagonist is finally defeated, the themes and dramatic questions are answered, and the loose ends are tied. Or rather, it should be. After the defeat of the Illusive Man (the antagonist role is somewhat muddled and blurry towards the end of the story, more on that briefly), the protagonist has reached his goal, the defeat of the Reapers is at hand; conventionally, this is where the protagonist would succeed, the Crucible fire, and the Reapers destroyed. Instead, the story grows convoluted (once again, this is supposed to be the resolution) at the height of the scene by jarring us out of it with the bizarre, dreamlike sequence of Sheperd's ascent on the magic platform and the introduction of an ancient and seemingly god-like form who expounds the final choice between three options, all presented symbolically in appearance and action: one which mirrors a co-antagonist's desire which has been reinforced throughout as wrong and contradictory of the protagonist's; one which is downright bizarre and is almost completely outside the scope of the game's main themes save for being somewhat in line with the primary antagonistic forces' goal; and one which accurately mirrors the protagonist's goal from since the beginning. The results of these choices vary and are wide-reaching, creating a massive upheaval of the story world, while being unclear. All of the characters and the entire setting are left to an uncertain and sometimes confusing fate.
Just looking at what I've typed, it's apparent this is not a resolution. New information is introduced throughout the entire sequence rather than tying loose ends. New information shouldn't be introduced in a resolution unless it directly resolves something or is quickly resolved itself; definitively, it's the opposite of what a resolution is. In layman's terms, this is what makes us feel like there are more questions than answers.
The fate of the characters and the final destination they reach in the story are crucial to the resolution, especially on the scale of a trilogy. During the ascending action, right before the climax of the no man's land run, we are given a send off from all of the characters; this is both out of order for a conventional plotline (more fitting the descending action rather than ascending) and dimished by the implications of the ending. Ultimately, it is through the characters that we most directly identify with the story and find the meaning, the lack of resolution in this regard is especially unsatisfying.
The resolution is where the audience is supposed to find the tale's "ever after", be it happy or sad. Mass Effect 3 completely lacks any sense of "ever after".
2. Video games, like film, are a visual medium; the ending tells us what happens rather than shows us what happens. This is easy to overlook but very important. Visual mediums for story are all about what we see. Another cardinal sin of storytelling commited during the ending is the description of, and differences between, the options in the final choice are almost all conveyed through exposition. The cinematics themselves, what we actually see, are extremely similar and all the implications of the choice we make are conveyed through what the exposition had told us. This is very poor storytelling and worse still to be considered the resolution.
3. Ambiguity, lack of clarity, plot holes. Relating to the previous points, the ending is excessively ambiguous and unclear. With only unclear exposition before the choice and without sufficient data presented afterwards, many situations are unaccounted for and either lack clarity at best or appear as plot holes at worst. The crash landing of the Normandy is a clear example of this ambiguity, both in it's plausibility and implications for the fate of the crew.
4. Nothing is gained by breaking convention and attempting to make the ending enigmatic or profound.Assuming this was the writers' goal, this is another failing. Some believe, myself included, that the writers' tried to use the jarring impact of an unconventional, imperfect ending to hammer home a message or theme (presumably: pre-destination, the uncontrollable nature of fate, and the individual's limited ability to impact the world). This, however, comes at the cost of the story and the audience's pleasure, a cost that is far too high for the nature of storytelling.
5. The resurgence and emphasis on The Illusive Man during the resolution as well as the lack of interaction with the Reapers and, more specifically, Harbinger, detracts from the Reapers as the antagonist. A lot of people expected a "boss fight" of sorts or a closing discussion with Harbinger at the end. This is a perfectly understandable and legitimate expectation. During the climax, we are almost defeated by Harbinger, the avatar for the Reapers as antagonist, however, during the resolution, it is the indoctrinated Illusive Man that takes takes center stage. Though he unwittingly is an assisting force for the Reapers, he is not directly representative of them, merely their influence. TIM's role is more fitting that of an obstacle to be overcome during the rising action.
The prominance of The Illusive Man as the final foe to be overcome detracts from the overall threat and importance of the true antagonist, the Reapers.
6. Shepherd is not a tragic hero. A common debate I see is between people who think there should be a happy ending and people who think such an ending would be out of place or impossible, sometimes refering to Shepherd as "tragic". The simple fact is, Shepherd has no tragic flaw nor does he make a tragic mistake; had such a tragic characteristic existed, it could be a foregone conclusion he would die. Overcoming the Reapers may be an impossible task, but the impossible is
routinely overcome in the Mass Effect trilogy and other epics. As is, there is nothing in the story that would railroad Shepherd towards an inevitable demise, the difficulty of his task makes his death likely, but there's nothing that should remove the possibility of a happy ending. This may be why many people want a "happy" or "brighter" ending, there's no setup nor payoff to Shepherd's death and without those it may feel cheap; storytelling is all about setup and payoff.
For an example of a good tragic hero, look no farther than Mordin Solus. His tragic mistake was the creation of the genophage. When a desperate need for krogan intervention arose and the genophage was the reason they refused, Mordin fulfilled his tragic role by sacrificing and redeeming himself. There's a big setup for the genophage throughout the series and Mordin's involvement is setup in the second game as a huge internal conflict for him. In three, this all pays off beautifully with either his redemption or brutal murder at Shepherd's hands before he can succeed. This is proper execution for a tragic character. From what I've seen, this is one of the most beloved and well-received storylines in the game; compare that to the ending's reception.
These points were written as a stream of conscious, I'm sure there are plenty of things I've missed or didn't feel like going in depth about, but I think those are some of the most important ones.
C. As I was writing this I read the Final Hours thread containing comments from Mac Walters and Casey Hudson as well as Walters' scribbled notes for the ending. Honestly I was taken aback.
Judging the content Hudson cut based on his feel for "the moment", I'd say his feel for emotional beats and his judgement of what was expendable for story economy was atrocious. The first Mass Effect was inundated at times with exposition and had very poor economy, this ending, on the other hand, is something of an opposite with not nearly enough information.
Walters' notes scrawled across loose leaf disappointed me. The ideas are clearly not fleshed out at all, strictly drawing board material, the execution we see in game is indicative of that. " Lots of speculation from everyone" is somewhat repulsive, as if providing an unclear, poorly planned ending that leaves your audience unsatisfied and grasping at straws for answers is somehow good storytelling. It gives me the inclination that the ending really was just for publicity.
I hope it continues to backfire.
Anyway, I'm off. Any interest or questions or if you want to pick my brain about storytelling, we'll call this a work in progress.
Updated: point 6
Modifié par pikey1969, 17 mars 2012 - 04:31 .
#508
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:30
MakeMineMako
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Feedback:
-The game was fine up until Shepard encountered the Catalyst Kid. That's when things went south with the game.
-Three choices with slight variations are not enough, in my honest opinion. There should have been a variety, with the results determined by your EMS.
-Railroaded endings, no matter how "artsy" and "profound" Bioware thinks they are, don't cut it. Shepard hasn't been one to meekly accept what crap others hand to him/her. Why, all of a sudden, when the King Reaper Kid says otherwise, does the character accept it? Where is the debate, with Shepard using evidence to argue otherwise? Where are the persuasion options? Where is the option to tell the Star Child to go to hell? It doesn't fit the character or the series themes. You are suddenly forced into agreeing that the Reapers philosophy and motives are right. Which is downright evil, in my opinion.
-Shepard isn't the type of hero to kill off loyal friends or committ genocide (Destroy) or take away deciding your own destiny (Synthesis). It goes against everything that our heroes fought for. But those choices are FORCED upon the players, with no debate. And Control isn't in character either, since it may condemn future generations to a Reaper genocide.
-The Reapers won a moral victory, no matter your choice. The coalition forces lost. No matter your preps or actions throughout the game. There should be options for a military/moral victory for the allied forces as well, considering all the preparation and efforts to unite the galaxy.
-I don't buy Bioware's idea of "bittersweet" endings. Things will be bittersweet enough, even with a happy ending where Shepard lives, the Relays are intact , and the squad survives to be reunited with their leader/lover/friend. Trillons are dead. Militaries are decimated, planets and cities in ruins, governments in chaos. There is no need to force players, if their EMS is high enough, to throw the galaxy back to the early spaceflight age (at best)/ stone age (at worst) to achieve "bittersweet". It's already there, with the losses and sacrifices throughout the galaxy. And the destruction of the civilization that Shepard fought for is out of character, as is allowing the chaos the loss of the Relays would entail. There should be a chance for the Relays to remain intact and useful.
-There should be an option for Shepard to survive and/or be reunited with the crew.
-There should be options for both happy endings and so-so endings. We already got what amounts to bad endings, thank you.
-Joker pussing out and the Gilligan's Planet scenes should be removed from any fix you decide to implement (if you do, I have my doubts).
-The grandpa/grandchild sequence was fine. It should remain regardless of the endings. I assume it was related to Liara's time capsules. It was a nice touch.
All in all, the game was an excellent effort. I loved it until the ghost child came along. My suggested changes all relate to the ending of the game.
Thank you for your time.
-The game was fine up until Shepard encountered the Catalyst Kid. That's when things went south with the game.
-Three choices with slight variations are not enough, in my honest opinion. There should have been a variety, with the results determined by your EMS.
-Railroaded endings, no matter how "artsy" and "profound" Bioware thinks they are, don't cut it. Shepard hasn't been one to meekly accept what crap others hand to him/her. Why, all of a sudden, when the King Reaper Kid says otherwise, does the character accept it? Where is the debate, with Shepard using evidence to argue otherwise? Where are the persuasion options? Where is the option to tell the Star Child to go to hell? It doesn't fit the character or the series themes. You are suddenly forced into agreeing that the Reapers philosophy and motives are right. Which is downright evil, in my opinion.
-Shepard isn't the type of hero to kill off loyal friends or committ genocide (Destroy) or take away deciding your own destiny (Synthesis). It goes against everything that our heroes fought for. But those choices are FORCED upon the players, with no debate. And Control isn't in character either, since it may condemn future generations to a Reaper genocide.
-The Reapers won a moral victory, no matter your choice. The coalition forces lost. No matter your preps or actions throughout the game. There should be options for a military/moral victory for the allied forces as well, considering all the preparation and efforts to unite the galaxy.
-I don't buy Bioware's idea of "bittersweet" endings. Things will be bittersweet enough, even with a happy ending where Shepard lives, the Relays are intact , and the squad survives to be reunited with their leader/lover/friend. Trillons are dead. Militaries are decimated, planets and cities in ruins, governments in chaos. There is no need to force players, if their EMS is high enough, to throw the galaxy back to the early spaceflight age (at best)/ stone age (at worst) to achieve "bittersweet". It's already there, with the losses and sacrifices throughout the galaxy. And the destruction of the civilization that Shepard fought for is out of character, as is allowing the chaos the loss of the Relays would entail. There should be a chance for the Relays to remain intact and useful.
-There should be an option for Shepard to survive and/or be reunited with the crew.
-There should be options for both happy endings and so-so endings. We already got what amounts to bad endings, thank you.
-Joker pussing out and the Gilligan's Planet scenes should be removed from any fix you decide to implement (if you do, I have my doubts).
-The grandpa/grandchild sequence was fine. It should remain regardless of the endings. I assume it was related to Liara's time capsules. It was a nice touch.
All in all, the game was an excellent effort. I loved it until the ghost child came along. My suggested changes all relate to the ending of the game.
Thank you for your time.
#509
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:30
teamhren
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Hey there. Thanks for listening!
First, you people at bioware are the best ever. I love your games.
I loved how cerberus worked in 3. Stealing TIM's chair was AWESOME! They are also some of the best enimies in Mass Effect period.
I would like to see the Quarians and Geth getting along, the wee little Krogan kids, an the crew of the normandy alive and on earth. Mass relays being gone means the reapers no longer influence the galaxy. Just let me know everyone doesn't starve to death on earth.
First, you people at bioware are the best ever. I love your games.
I loved how cerberus worked in 3. Stealing TIM's chair was AWESOME! They are also some of the best enimies in Mass Effect period.
I would like to see the Quarians and Geth getting along, the wee little Krogan kids, an the crew of the normandy alive and on earth. Mass relays being gone means the reapers no longer influence the galaxy. Just let me know everyone doesn't starve to death on earth.
#510
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:31
angryjellyfish
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I terms of the ending
as with what most other people have said about changing the star-child, facing
harbinger, and actually seeing war assets in combat, I would like to see a bit
more closure.
Take the ending of Dragon Age: Origins for
example, you get a celebration ceremony or a funeral and your LI is there at
both. Mass effect 3 seems to be lacking this and instead opens more questions,
which isn't something the ending to an epic trilogy should do. it should aim
for closure. So I want to see a scene of Shepard’s funeral or, if he actually
did survive, I want to see the celebrations.
Another thing that the ending of DA:O did right
was after all the scenes and just before the credits, it showed us an epilogue.
The epilogue explained, in writing, what happened to ALL of the characters you encounter
and the aftermath of the major events in the game. I think something like this
would add some very nice closure to the game and it doesn't require anymore
voice acting or animated scenes.
Finally, I don't understand why the mass relay
network should be destroyed, as it pretty much changes the entire fiction that
we have come to love. surely the great commander Shepard should be able to find
another way to defeat the reapers without blindly following a star-child that
he saw die on earth.
There is so much more that could be listed but
other people already have on stated numerous times.
as with what most other people have said about changing the star-child, facing
harbinger, and actually seeing war assets in combat, I would like to see a bit
more closure.
Take the ending of Dragon Age: Origins for
example, you get a celebration ceremony or a funeral and your LI is there at
both. Mass effect 3 seems to be lacking this and instead opens more questions,
which isn't something the ending to an epic trilogy should do. it should aim
for closure. So I want to see a scene of Shepard’s funeral or, if he actually
did survive, I want to see the celebrations.
Another thing that the ending of DA:O did right
was after all the scenes and just before the credits, it showed us an epilogue.
The epilogue explained, in writing, what happened to ALL of the characters you encounter
and the aftermath of the major events in the game. I think something like this
would add some very nice closure to the game and it doesn't require anymore
voice acting or animated scenes.
Finally, I don't understand why the mass relay
network should be destroyed, as it pretty much changes the entire fiction that
we have come to love. surely the great commander Shepard should be able to find
another way to defeat the reapers without blindly following a star-child that
he saw die on earth.
There is so much more that could be listed but
other people already have on stated numerous times.
Modifié par angryjellyfish, 17 mars 2012 - 04:31 .
#511
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:31
eddieoctane
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Sywen wrote...
JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...
3) I'd like to see Electronic Arts dip into its coffers and match whatever amount the Retake Mass Effect movement has raised by the middle of April. EA's accountants can surely find a way to justify such corporate good will.
More people need to quote this!
Excellent Idea :happy:
Requoted for good measure. Especially if we are goign to pay for an ending DLC.
#512
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:31
Kloborgg711
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RaenImrahl wrote...
Thanks to everyone who has contributed thoughtful and specific suggestions. Keep it up!
A reminder, this is what Jessica is looking for:Jessica Merizan wrote...
I think I need to clarify myself. For the past few weeks, I've been collecting feedback. I have excel sheets, word documents, quotes, graphs, you name it.
In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.
Saying "this blows" helps no one. Saying, "I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C" is what I'm looking for. Channel your frustration into something positive (such as the RetakeME3 movement - constructive, organized thoughts).
Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.
Alright.
I enjoyed the first act of the game immensely. Aside from a few technical glitches and a wonky quest log it was gaming bliss. I didn't even notice the lack of neutral dialogue options, though there were a handful of moments where I felt Shepard was talking a little bit too much without player intereference. I love the improved combat, it feels much more fluid. The visuals were great, the voice acting was top-notch aside from Diane Allers, and the sound track was surprisingly emotional.
Most of the storytelling was similarly superb. I enjoyed virtually of the game, though my first "that was incredible" moment came from the Tuchanka story arc. The entire thing was handedly perfectly, and the sacrifice (Mordin in my case) was a perfect example of a "tragic hero". I felt as though Mordin fulfilled his purpose, and though I was certainly sad to see him gone, I knew he had to die. Another great portion was the fight for the Quarians. Legions' Geth-network level gave a much-needed break for the action and did a great job of painting the Geth's side of the story. The choices in dealing between the Quarian and the Geth were tense and emotional. Legion's sacrifice was, again, handled beautifully. Finally, I have to commend what you guys did with Thessia. Though it wasn't a particularly long sequence, the team did an outstanding job in giving the same sense or urgency as on Earth. You could really feel LIara's pain at seeing her people die.
I say all that because I want to illustrate just how much potential the game had. It really was one of the best experiences I've had in any game. The ending however, really blew it on several levels. I don't say this with hyperbole, and I don't say it to be dramatic. I genuinely felt that in a way the ending ruined (for me) the entire Mass Effect franchise. I cannot summon a will or desire to replay the same games I've already replayed so many times in the past. The endings have three major problems that need addressing:
1. Plot holes and inconsistencies. Joker's running from battle, your squad's mysterious disappearance and reappearance on the Normandy, and the fact that the Reapers' goal contradicts Sovereign's explanation all play a hand in this. I also have to say, from any storytelling point of view, the addition of Starchild was just.. in poor taste. It introduced a new "main antagonist" in the final moments of the game and expected us not to question it. It superimposed the subplot of "synthetic vs organic" as the new "main theme" when that was never really the case. More over, our Shepard's were supposed to simply believing everything this kid said without question. I know this is unlikely, but I really feel like he needs to go.
2. Variety. I don't mean to sound aggressive, but we were promised 16 endings. You can argue semantics on this, but really, that's misleading at best. The whole point of Mass Effect 3 was that your decisions didn't need to carry on, so we were supposed to have more options. As it is, we're given three endings with virtually the same cutscenes, and tiny insignificant variables to separate them.
I expected, aside from numbers, real differences. I expected a "tragic ending" where Shepard either suffered defeat or underwent a truly Pyrrhic victory. I expected a "middle ending" where many are lost and Shepard might die, but overall the Reapers are defeated and life goes on. Finally, I expected a happy ending if enough work was put in. Some might see the idea as "stale" and "unoriginal", but there was nothing I wanted more. As a Liara romancer, I had several conversations in ME2 and ME3 in which I told Liara I was fighting for her, and I promised her I would not die. I would do anything to have an ending with Liara. Kill off more characters, put a higher price for it, make it nigh-impossible to achieve, but I really REALLY wanted to end this amazing trilogy on a happier note.
3. Closure. Aside from actually changing what happens, we want to know what happens. Most of us do not want "speculation" and find the idea, frankly, lazy. We want to see the immediate fate of the races that fought and helped us. We want to see the Quarians get back to their planet. We want to see Krogan children. We wan to see what Garrus is up to. Stranding the entire crew on the jungle planet just makes us worried and unsure. We don't know how Garrus or Liara can survive without a source of dextro-food. We don't know how the galaxy will handle the relays going down. We don't know if the citadel will crash into Earth and kill everything. Technically we COULD "imagine" a best-case scenario, but that seems forced and unconvincing. It's hard enough to say goodbye to Mass Effect as is, at least let us do so with some confidence in knowing what happened.
There, that's a summary of my personal feelings on the issue. Thanks for listening.
#513
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:31
TheodoricFriede
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Theres nothing i can add that hasn't already been said.
Basically it boils down to a less vague ending that takes into account the decisions we made in the game.
An ending that is clear and understandable, where you have definite closure.
Furthermore, i think that if you do everything right, or at least do the right sequence of events, players should get that happy ending. The same is true for a bad or depressing ending if they do a different series of events.
Basically it boils down to a less vague ending that takes into account the decisions we made in the game.
An ending that is clear and understandable, where you have definite closure.
Furthermore, i think that if you do everything right, or at least do the right sequence of events, players should get that happy ending. The same is true for a bad or depressing ending if they do a different series of events.
#514
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:31
CheeseEnchilada
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As everyone else has already made in-depth suggestions on how to fix the endings, I'll throw in something that probably seems petty in light of everything else: allow Shepard to flash back to his or her LI at the end, not just Liara by default. It's a small thing, but it helps with immersion and can't be that hard to program.
#515
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:32
Ggx1
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Fixing the plot holes alone will make me happy. Why was the Normandy flying away? How did my squad mates that were on Earth magically teleport to the Normandy? (<- This one really kills me especially considering Steve's shuttle was shot down.) Where the hell did they even land if they never got to the Mass Relay? Nothing makes sense past Shepard's final choice and I have NO flipping clue what the writers were thinking. NONE
Also, the whole catalyst conversation was just terrible. I can understand being purposely vague, but at least allow Shepard to ask the questions, the Catalyst doesn't necessarily have to answer them. This whole conversation was not worthy of the Mass Effect title, it might as well have been a cutscene as the choices you made in it did not matter at all.
Also, the whole catalyst conversation was just terrible. I can understand being purposely vague, but at least allow Shepard to ask the questions, the Catalyst doesn't necessarily have to answer them. This whole conversation was not worthy of the Mass Effect title, it might as well have been a cutscene as the choices you made in it did not matter at all.
#516
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:32
Spectre-00N7
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5 Things I Enjoyed:
1) The combat system was very good. I was able to get to cover a lot easier than in previous games. I did have a problem with the speed at which my squad members would move to where I told them to go. I really felt as though I was in a war and not just running into random skirmishes. Heavy Melee was a great idea and I'm glad classes get different versions of them.
2) Every character I've grown to love makes an appearance in the game. I was even able to pursue a love interest with Miranda even though she was not part of my crew anymore. I would like to see them fighting on Earth though; a few cut scenes would have been nice.
3) The amount of possible love interest in the game was great. I'm even glad that you could have a relationship with Cortez. I hope that there will be dlc that allows you to have more time with LIs that are not in your party.
4) The extended level up system added a lot of fun options to your abilities. I hate games that make your character feel just as week as in the last game. After coming out of the suicide mission, I should have the feeling that my crew and I are getting stronger.
5) Multiplayer was a great idea, but don't put those that don't want to play the multiplayer at a disadvantage. I understand that you want to get people to at least try multiplayer, but this series is really about the single player mode.
5 Things I Did Not Enjoy:
1) The ending (yes I know). The problem with the ending is that of the three options, none of them really is a compromise. Fusing synthetics is not a compromise in my book. Why couldn't I talk to the catalyst and find a way for the Reapers to make peace with the galaxy? Even if Shepard fails at finding a way to make peace, at least s/he tried right? I'd like to have a perfect ending option for some people like the fan made one here.
I'd also like to get some answers to how my decision changes the galaxy. Show me how my squad members react to my victory/failure (don't show me the Normandy crashing on a planet for some reason unknown). Show me a clip of the Quarians (did they ever get to go back to their homeworld), Show me the Geth (Will they try to help the Quarians), Show me the destruction of the Geth if I decide to wipe out all of the synthetics, ect.
Show me some reason as to why my actions throughout the series EVER MATTERED AT ALL.
This video is basicaly my view on the ending as others have also posted.
2) There wasn't any neutral dialogs. I don't care if it has the same response from the other person in the conversation as paragon or renegade would. I just don't want to always have to respond with a lot of emotion. Sometimes I like to just say, "Hey, it happens," instead of "I'm so sorry for what you went through," or "We'll make them pay for what happened," when all that happened was something little.
3) There was a lack of squad members. It would have been cool to pick up some mercs or something. I understand that the old squad members had other things to do that were very important, but bring in more new people like Vega. It's too late to add the members seeing how the game is already out and all, and I know that there will be dlc members for sure.
4) Multiplayer unlock system is so messed up. Many of us in the demo tried to get a compromise. Heck I'd be okay with having to spend real money to get that weapon/class I wanted to play. I understand you want to increase the longevity of the game, but I really don't feel like grinding out the game anymore. I got a ranking of 169 on the PS3 ladders and I still did not have either classes that I wanted (Asari adept and Salarian infiltrator) as well as my favorite weapon in the game (the Widow).....
REALLY???
Man I have bad luck. How does this make me want to play mutliplayer? My efforts did not pay off for the amount of work I put in. I could not even get to play the way I wanted. The closest I got was an Asari Vanguard with a Carnifex. Where's the love?
5) There is only wave mode multiplayer. Can we get a mode to play through some missions that take place on the final battle on Earth? Like we are a special squad that must go behind enemy lines while Shepard is also pushing forward.
I'm definitely happy we don't have pvp, for there would be so many balancing issues to solve.
1) The combat system was very good. I was able to get to cover a lot easier than in previous games. I did have a problem with the speed at which my squad members would move to where I told them to go. I really felt as though I was in a war and not just running into random skirmishes. Heavy Melee was a great idea and I'm glad classes get different versions of them.
2) Every character I've grown to love makes an appearance in the game. I was even able to pursue a love interest with Miranda even though she was not part of my crew anymore. I would like to see them fighting on Earth though; a few cut scenes would have been nice.
3) The amount of possible love interest in the game was great. I'm even glad that you could have a relationship with Cortez. I hope that there will be dlc that allows you to have more time with LIs that are not in your party.
4) The extended level up system added a lot of fun options to your abilities. I hate games that make your character feel just as week as in the last game. After coming out of the suicide mission, I should have the feeling that my crew and I are getting stronger.
5) Multiplayer was a great idea, but don't put those that don't want to play the multiplayer at a disadvantage. I understand that you want to get people to at least try multiplayer, but this series is really about the single player mode.
5 Things I Did Not Enjoy:
1) The ending (yes I know). The problem with the ending is that of the three options, none of them really is a compromise. Fusing synthetics is not a compromise in my book. Why couldn't I talk to the catalyst and find a way for the Reapers to make peace with the galaxy? Even if Shepard fails at finding a way to make peace, at least s/he tried right? I'd like to have a perfect ending option for some people like the fan made one here.
I'd also like to get some answers to how my decision changes the galaxy. Show me how my squad members react to my victory/failure (don't show me the Normandy crashing on a planet for some reason unknown). Show me a clip of the Quarians (did they ever get to go back to their homeworld), Show me the Geth (Will they try to help the Quarians), Show me the destruction of the Geth if I decide to wipe out all of the synthetics, ect.
Show me some reason as to why my actions throughout the series EVER MATTERED AT ALL.
This video is basicaly my view on the ending as others have also posted.
2) There wasn't any neutral dialogs. I don't care if it has the same response from the other person in the conversation as paragon or renegade would. I just don't want to always have to respond with a lot of emotion. Sometimes I like to just say, "Hey, it happens," instead of "I'm so sorry for what you went through," or "We'll make them pay for what happened," when all that happened was something little.
3) There was a lack of squad members. It would have been cool to pick up some mercs or something. I understand that the old squad members had other things to do that were very important, but bring in more new people like Vega. It's too late to add the members seeing how the game is already out and all, and I know that there will be dlc members for sure.
4) Multiplayer unlock system is so messed up. Many of us in the demo tried to get a compromise. Heck I'd be okay with having to spend real money to get that weapon/class I wanted to play. I understand you want to increase the longevity of the game, but I really don't feel like grinding out the game anymore. I got a ranking of 169 on the PS3 ladders and I still did not have either classes that I wanted (Asari adept and Salarian infiltrator) as well as my favorite weapon in the game (the Widow).....
REALLY???
Man I have bad luck. How does this make me want to play mutliplayer? My efforts did not pay off for the amount of work I put in. I could not even get to play the way I wanted. The closest I got was an Asari Vanguard with a Carnifex. Where's the love?
5) There is only wave mode multiplayer. Can we get a mode to play through some missions that take place on the final battle on Earth? Like we are a special squad that must go behind enemy lines while Shepard is also pushing forward.
I'm definitely happy we don't have pvp, for there would be so many balancing issues to solve.
Modifié par Spectre-00N7, 25 mars 2012 - 06:46 .
#517
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:32
KeilxKey
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What baffles me - just utterly baffles me about this ending is how badly it fits in with the rest of the game!
The rest of the game is beautiful. I can't tell you how badly I cried when Mordin died, or how my heart broke when I heard Legion's final words (paragon ending, of course). When I lost the Asari homeworld to Reapers and lost the key to the Crucible, I was actually so heartsick and mad I had to stop playing for a day. The romance with Garrus feels like a reward, like a gift for caring about this character enough to stay loyal to him until the last game - some scenes acctually made me blush and giggle like a damn schoolgirl. It was embarrassing as sin, but that's the point, isn't it?
It ENGAGED me! It was damn near flawless writing. I know there's no such thing as a perfect video game, but (dammit!) you set the standard and you did it with style, no less!
So what the heck happened with the last five minutes?
It's like you wanted to undo everything epic about this game.
I saw the notes released on the app, the scribbles about how there was "enough speculation for everyone".
How is sheer speculation a good thing?
At this point, that's the ONLY question I want answered! HOW COULD YOU THINK THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?
Hold the friggin' Line!
The rest of the game is beautiful. I can't tell you how badly I cried when Mordin died, or how my heart broke when I heard Legion's final words (paragon ending, of course). When I lost the Asari homeworld to Reapers and lost the key to the Crucible, I was actually so heartsick and mad I had to stop playing for a day. The romance with Garrus feels like a reward, like a gift for caring about this character enough to stay loyal to him until the last game - some scenes acctually made me blush and giggle like a damn schoolgirl. It was embarrassing as sin, but that's the point, isn't it?
It ENGAGED me! It was damn near flawless writing. I know there's no such thing as a perfect video game, but (dammit!) you set the standard and you did it with style, no less!
So what the heck happened with the last five minutes?
It's like you wanted to undo everything epic about this game.
I saw the notes released on the app, the scribbles about how there was "enough speculation for everyone".
How is sheer speculation a good thing?
At this point, that's the ONLY question I want answered! HOW COULD YOU THINK THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?
Hold the friggin' Line!
#518
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:32
juliannacorn
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I liked the overall dynamic of the game, and the only thing that I would change is that those dynamics aren't carried through to the end. The end, no matter what you choose, is confusing and peremptory.
What I would like to see from the ending is a greater variety, directly influenced by one's choices. resources, and achievements made and gained throughout the trilogy. I'd like to see my Shepherd with her love interest enjoy the peace she worked so hard to attain.
What I would like to see from the ending is a greater variety, directly influenced by one's choices. resources, and achievements made and gained throughout the trilogy. I'd like to see my Shepherd with her love interest enjoy the peace she worked so hard to attain.
#519
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:32
The Big Palooka
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I might post again to write out my own personal thoughts, but in the meantime -
The video linked below does a really excellent job of summing up the concerns/issues a lot of us had with the endings, as well as some of the things we most want to see.
: www.youtube.com/watch
The video linked below does a really excellent job of summing up the concerns/issues a lot of us had with the endings, as well as some of the things we most want to see.
: www.youtube.com/watch
#520
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:33
Regan Cousland
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In his mind's eye, Shepard sees the faces of three crewmembers before he sacrifices himself at the end of the game. It really bothered me that my Shepard thought about Anderson, Joker and Liara -- because he *should* have been thinking about Jack, his girlfriend. That's who *I* was thinking about. If this scene stays, BioWare, will you please fix it so that Shepard thinks about his current LI before he bites galactic dust? Thanks.
#521
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:33
LeifofRohan
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Jessica (And Chris)
MAss Effect 3 was... almost..... perfect. Voice acting, spot on. The music...my god the music. I am so glad ot have gotten the score. I love it! Moridins Passing... brought me to tears, when I thought Grunt sacrificed himself... more tears.... then tears of happiness when he was alive. When Thane sacrficed himself, and then said a prayer for me, through his son. my god. Wonderful I say! The story telling in this series has always been just... WOW.
I have a lot to say next and I hope you bear with me....
Needless to say, I loved your game, up until... my issue, which was, surprise surprise, the endings. My issue with the endings is that, for starters, none of my choices I have made in all three games do not fit into the endings. And I know that was supposed to be part of the ending. Instead, I felt like I was playing a game show, which color do you want to possibly die in? The Blue, Red or Green? It was disheartening and, quite frankly, sad. And not in the good, climactic sad an ending should be. but the deep, depressing spiral that left me up that whole night I had beaten the game.
Another issue i had was the story led up to one climax and then went towards another. It was confusing. I am supposed to be stopping hte Reapers, not controling them but controling them was broguht across as the "GOOD" choice. And destroying them "BAD" choice. I was a a paragon character. I still destroyed the Reapers. That is what I set out to do. Another question, i nArrival DLC for ME @ you stated through storytelling that destruction of a MAss Relay woudl desroy that galaxy. Does that mean everyone that I worked so hard ot help is dead? If not then how come? Its confusing.
My other issue with said endings is that there are plot holes that need to be addressed. First and foremost on my mind was "Why is the Normandy leaving?" it was so out of character for all on board and then for it to crash in the middle of some jungle? Not my idea of... erm wow a fulfilling ending.
A suggestion I could add for you, and I am sure that you have heard this before, but please give us some more ending options. Mass Effect is a game of choices, and I want just that. Make it like you guys did with mass Effect 2, where if you did all your squads missions and did a ton and ton of stuff everyone survived. If you get over 5000 or even 6000 war assests you can survive, if not, have Shepard go out in a blaze of glory.... not either jumping into a light, shooting something or controling the reapers, which was what your supposed to be preventing! I'd be more than willing to invest my hours into that, any scenario, to see my Commander Matthew Shepard and Ashley walk... or in his case, limp off into the sunset. Or perhaps have it be a rescue mission is Shep survives and he rescues his damsel in distress (what can I say? I love romances! And BioWare's stuff is always good)
There is a lot of potential here for you, as developers, to have a seriously amazing ending. And we, your fans, would be very welcoming to it. We are dedicated to your series, if we weren't, we would not care so much. please read what all these good people have to say, we your fans care very much about the story, the games you guys make. Please, don't let us down
Thanks for your time. The rest of ME 3 was great, (Although the custom shepard import issue was a tad bit annoying)
MAss Effect 3 was... almost..... perfect. Voice acting, spot on. The music...my god the music. I am so glad ot have gotten the score. I love it! Moridins Passing... brought me to tears, when I thought Grunt sacrificed himself... more tears.... then tears of happiness when he was alive. When Thane sacrficed himself, and then said a prayer for me, through his son. my god. Wonderful I say! The story telling in this series has always been just... WOW.
I have a lot to say next and I hope you bear with me....
Needless to say, I loved your game, up until... my issue, which was, surprise surprise, the endings. My issue with the endings is that, for starters, none of my choices I have made in all three games do not fit into the endings. And I know that was supposed to be part of the ending. Instead, I felt like I was playing a game show, which color do you want to possibly die in? The Blue, Red or Green? It was disheartening and, quite frankly, sad. And not in the good, climactic sad an ending should be. but the deep, depressing spiral that left me up that whole night I had beaten the game.
Another issue i had was the story led up to one climax and then went towards another. It was confusing. I am supposed to be stopping hte Reapers, not controling them but controling them was broguht across as the "GOOD" choice. And destroying them "BAD" choice. I was a a paragon character. I still destroyed the Reapers. That is what I set out to do. Another question, i nArrival DLC for ME @ you stated through storytelling that destruction of a MAss Relay woudl desroy that galaxy. Does that mean everyone that I worked so hard ot help is dead? If not then how come? Its confusing.
My other issue with said endings is that there are plot holes that need to be addressed. First and foremost on my mind was "Why is the Normandy leaving?" it was so out of character for all on board and then for it to crash in the middle of some jungle? Not my idea of... erm wow a fulfilling ending.
A suggestion I could add for you, and I am sure that you have heard this before, but please give us some more ending options. Mass Effect is a game of choices, and I want just that. Make it like you guys did with mass Effect 2, where if you did all your squads missions and did a ton and ton of stuff everyone survived. If you get over 5000 or even 6000 war assests you can survive, if not, have Shepard go out in a blaze of glory.... not either jumping into a light, shooting something or controling the reapers, which was what your supposed to be preventing! I'd be more than willing to invest my hours into that, any scenario, to see my Commander Matthew Shepard and Ashley walk... or in his case, limp off into the sunset. Or perhaps have it be a rescue mission is Shep survives and he rescues his damsel in distress (what can I say? I love romances! And BioWare's stuff is always good)
There is a lot of potential here for you, as developers, to have a seriously amazing ending. And we, your fans, would be very welcoming to it. We are dedicated to your series, if we weren't, we would not care so much. please read what all these good people have to say, we your fans care very much about the story, the games you guys make. Please, don't let us down
Thanks for your time. The rest of ME 3 was great, (Although the custom shepard import issue was a tad bit annoying)
Modifié par LeifofRohan, 17 mars 2012 - 04:41 .
#522
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:33
Kango X
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Well for the obvious thing, a diiferent ending/finished ending. I think the indoctrination idea is the best course of action because it would make sense of all the plot holes/design flaws (unless they were intentional.)
I wouldn't end there, of course, take this oppritunity to implentment the promised indivualised endings. While I don't think think this HAS to be visual thing, it might be preferred, An altnerative would be a text epiloge similar to the end of Dragon Age: Orgins. Of course assuming theres some form of wrap up first.
Another, smaller thing, is a buff to the sentry turret. A small one, either to the damage or to the durabillity. As it stands now it has no use on higher difficulies on both multiplayer and single player as it wll either get destroyed swiftly or simply not put out enough damage, or both.
I wouldn't end there, of course, take this oppritunity to implentment the promised indivualised endings. While I don't think think this HAS to be visual thing, it might be preferred, An altnerative would be a text epiloge similar to the end of Dragon Age: Orgins. Of course assuming theres some form of wrap up first.
Another, smaller thing, is a buff to the sentry turret. A small one, either to the damage or to the durabillity. As it stands now it has no use on higher difficulies on both multiplayer and single player as it wll either get destroyed swiftly or simply not put out enough damage, or both.
#523
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:33
SovereignGFC
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Provide an ending that makes sense and provides closure.
Note that neither requires a "good" ending or a "fairytale" solution--if the ending is that everyone's dead, say it.
It's been mentioned that Dragon Age had panning camera shots with text that detailed what happened to whom. So, for example--"With the mass relays destroyed, galactic society was thrown back hundreds, if not thousands of years. Though the war had ended, pre-war civilization ceased to exist." This sort of explanatory text was even used in the opening, for heaven's sake.
This whole series has been promoted as "Your choices matter." Yet I'm left with the distinct feeling they don't matter very much when it comes to the big plot elements. What about the mercs, geth and rachni? Sure, the War Assets said I "got" them but I never saw them. Plenty of cutscenes are rendered in-game (because I am aware that pre-rendered cinematics probably take more effort to create)--go ahead and show us what we got (or didn't get).
If the team is really ambitious, let us play part of it! It's been mentioned before that we'd all love to smack Harbinger around.
Right now, the ending drops like a load of bricks. It's a seemingly-random Deus Ex Machina that isn't even explained, maybe handwaved as "this was a story some guy was telling his kid." That's not what I expected from Mass Effect! There was so much put into telling us (look at the Codex), showing us (cinematics/cutscenes) and giving us the experience (the playable elements). Exactly zero of these are present with this ending which leaves more questions than answers.
Note that neither requires a "good" ending or a "fairytale" solution--if the ending is that everyone's dead, say it.
It's been mentioned that Dragon Age had panning camera shots with text that detailed what happened to whom. So, for example--"With the mass relays destroyed, galactic society was thrown back hundreds, if not thousands of years. Though the war had ended, pre-war civilization ceased to exist." This sort of explanatory text was even used in the opening, for heaven's sake.
This whole series has been promoted as "Your choices matter." Yet I'm left with the distinct feeling they don't matter very much when it comes to the big plot elements. What about the mercs, geth and rachni? Sure, the War Assets said I "got" them but I never saw them. Plenty of cutscenes are rendered in-game (because I am aware that pre-rendered cinematics probably take more effort to create)--go ahead and show us what we got (or didn't get).
If the team is really ambitious, let us play part of it! It's been mentioned before that we'd all love to smack Harbinger around.
Right now, the ending drops like a load of bricks. It's a seemingly-random Deus Ex Machina that isn't even explained, maybe handwaved as "this was a story some guy was telling his kid." That's not what I expected from Mass Effect! There was so much put into telling us (look at the Codex), showing us (cinematics/cutscenes) and giving us the experience (the playable elements). Exactly zero of these are present with this ending which leaves more questions than answers.
Modifié par SovereignGFC, 17 mars 2012 - 04:35 .
#524
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:33
QwertyMusicMan
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In short, focus on the ending and LI development.
For specifics on the ending, just see everyone else honestly. Would love to see the indoctrination theory play out. Have a 100% happy ending that's incredibly hard to get WITHOUT multiplayer interference, and a terrible, realers win ending. But make each one provide closure to most important events, and especially to the LI...
As for the LI development, you've created such compelling characters that each person playing the game really, honestly cares about their LI. Thus, we would love to see some more scenes with them, and a full circle relationship with Shepard. IMO, especially Tali and Liara.
For specifics on the ending, just see everyone else honestly. Would love to see the indoctrination theory play out. Have a 100% happy ending that's incredibly hard to get WITHOUT multiplayer interference, and a terrible, realers win ending. But make each one provide closure to most important events, and especially to the LI...
As for the LI development, you've created such compelling characters that each person playing the game really, honestly cares about their LI. Thus, we would love to see some more scenes with them, and a full circle relationship with Shepard. IMO, especially Tali and Liara.
#525
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 04:34
Cosmar
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First off, let me just say that as things stand, I am not interested in purchasing any DLC for ME3 unless it also influences the ending somehow.
This isn't because I'm feeling angry or entitled or whatever. It's just a simple fact that, for me, the way the game (and series) ends is not conducive to feeding my desire for playing any additional content that happens before the ending.
That being said, I'm a proponent for an altered ending. Not necessarily an entirely redone ending, but more of an expanded ending. Just one that at least shows snippets of what happens to everyone afterward. Where are my crewmembers? Who survived? What will they do?
I can understand the appeal of leaving some things open to speculation/interpretation. I for one actually enjoy the dialogue that is going on, trying to interpret certain things about the ending. However, for a video game, especially a video game like ME3, I felt that the speculation/interpretation/ambiguity angle was pushed way too far. Even just an extended epilogue which includes paragraphs about what happened to the crew and the various factions/races (like Dragon Age: Origins, or Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal) would alleviate most of my concerns.
However, if the Indoctrination/Hallucination idea is something BW would be willing to expound on, I think that would have been an even more satisfying ending - if we got to wake up and finish the "real" fight somehow.
Overall, the ending just felt rushed, like there was way too much cut out because of time or budget constraints. I just want it to be fleshed out more, for it to feel more like the closing of a book rather than that the back cover and last few pages had been ripped out.
Also, I would have appreciated having more war assets in single player, or having more choices from previous games affect war assets. As it is, I'm 95% sure that it's impossible to attain the "Best" ending in single player, in which Shepard survives. I'm not nor have I ever been interested in multiplayer, and I felt somewhat cheated to learn that that "perfect" ending is nigh unattainable without playing the coop mode.
This isn't because I'm feeling angry or entitled or whatever. It's just a simple fact that, for me, the way the game (and series) ends is not conducive to feeding my desire for playing any additional content that happens before the ending.
That being said, I'm a proponent for an altered ending. Not necessarily an entirely redone ending, but more of an expanded ending. Just one that at least shows snippets of what happens to everyone afterward. Where are my crewmembers? Who survived? What will they do?
I can understand the appeal of leaving some things open to speculation/interpretation. I for one actually enjoy the dialogue that is going on, trying to interpret certain things about the ending. However, for a video game, especially a video game like ME3, I felt that the speculation/interpretation/ambiguity angle was pushed way too far. Even just an extended epilogue which includes paragraphs about what happened to the crew and the various factions/races (like Dragon Age: Origins, or Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal) would alleviate most of my concerns.
However, if the Indoctrination/Hallucination idea is something BW would be willing to expound on, I think that would have been an even more satisfying ending - if we got to wake up and finish the "real" fight somehow.
Overall, the ending just felt rushed, like there was way too much cut out because of time or budget constraints. I just want it to be fleshed out more, for it to feel more like the closing of a book rather than that the back cover and last few pages had been ripped out.
Also, I would have appreciated having more war assets in single player, or having more choices from previous games affect war assets. As it is, I'm 95% sure that it's impossible to attain the "Best" ending in single player, in which Shepard survives. I'm not nor have I ever been interested in multiplayer, and I felt somewhat cheated to learn that that "perfect" ending is nigh unattainable without playing the coop mode.
