7052 réponses à ce sujet

[BeastOfSoda]

I enjoyed the game a lot, but as most other players, I agree that the last part of the game was not only bad in comparison with the overall quality of the series: it was objectively bad, however you look at it, and the ME saga deserved a much better treatment.

Here's what I think: the ending to this game was not its only problem. or rather, it's the tip of the iceberg. The final segments of the game didn't give closure to anything, and if anything, they opened even more wounds: I think that the problems lied both in the gameplay aspect as well as the storytelling itself.

As far as the gameplay is concerned, I was mainly surprised that only a little slice of the last stand was shown to the players. It would have been nice to see the other races fighting earth's final battle alongside humans, instead there only appear to be them on the battlefield itself (ie, the action sequences). For example, what about the touted and anticipated Krogan rampage, which was reduced to a mere speech? I was genuinely expecting to see a horde of Krogans mowing reapers down in a hilariously violent segment, as the game itself promised at various points, but nothing. It's not only them: for instance, Salarians with their medical assistance could have actively helped in battle, maybe the Geth with tech knowledge or manpower (remember the mission where you recruit a whole squad of primes?), or heck, the biotics from Grissom Academy who were supposed to cast barriers. I know they must have been deployed elsewhere, but absolutely no alien presence in the actual action seems a bit forced to me. I'm also aware that they all briefly appear in cutscenes and that they're present among the airborne forces, but that's like assuming that they didn't have any sort of armed forces whatsoever.

Another hole is the fact that people seemingly forgot how to face the reapers, as if nobody told them about their soft spot (more storytelling, but it's more related to combat tactics to me). If Shepard managed to defeat one single-handedly, albeit with help from the Quarian fleet, I don't see why everyone else had to stubbornly try and attack them conventionally; this should be addressed as well, and maybe find an excuse to implement the same strategy used on Rannoch to at least defeat some.

From the storytelling side, the problems are even bigger, and most come from the rushed ending itself (I want to believe that the end result was the outcome of time constraints, since there are realistically too many holes in there for it to be the originally planned ending).

First of all, I don't feel like enough importance was given to the Citadel as part of the Crucible's assembly. What does it do, exactly? Is it a power source, or something similar? What about the suggestion that the Citadel's tunnels look like a collector base, pipes and all? Also, why did the citadel itself already have the architecture necessary for docking with the crucible, complete with multiple killswitches, seemingly made by the creators themselves? Speaking of which, who ARE the creators? Is it god, another race entirely or is it all just a big joke? What do they look like in reality?

Furthermore, I was disappointed by the fact that there was no actual confrontation in the end. The Illusive Man outright commits suicide, the creator does not yield any surprises such as a final boss (I actually tried shooting it, without success, to see if anything would happen -- that's potentially a good solution to tie in a possible "real" ending with what we've been fed, by the way) and, as already stated, there were no real choices in there.

Honestly, I think there would be nothing wrong with writing a new epilogue chapter altogether and give everything a sense of closure (possibly scrapping the already established final mission); it has been done in the past, most notably by Hideo Kojima in some of his games which saw plot elements added with releases on newer platforms. The huge benefit here is that it can be done directly on the currently available game, so i am looking forward to an epilogue worthy of this epic space opera. I know that there was probably much more that Bioware wanted to say in the grand finale, so please, make this opportunity count.

[cogsandcurls]

I'm not going to say all that much about the ending, since I'm sure it's been discussed to death on here. Honestly I have no idea how it could be salvaged to make it a decent ending short of actually making Indoctrination Theory canon. Barring that, we need an explanation for the plot holes, the Normandy's desertion, the teleporting squadmates, the wierdly specific Destroy All Synthetics option (can it magically tell when an AI is unshackled, and if not does it also kill off all VI just to be safe? If so, isn't that going to destroy the nav systems of most of the galactic fleet?) If the current ending is stuck to, and it's intended to be bleak, we still need explanation/clarification on the following things (among others) - the whole "the Catalyst undermines the plot of ME1" problem, the starvation of the galactic fleet, the destruction of the Mass Relays presumably destroying multiple solar systems a la Arrival, the complete non-foreshadowing of the Catalyst (the dreams about the boy don't count, seeing as presumably the image of the boy is only a visual representation the Catalyst uses to interact with Shepard - it's not like the human boy was secretly the Catalyst all along!) and so on.

Aside from that: I was one of those unfortunate souls who romanced Thane in in Mass Effect 2. I realise there's a push for a possible cure for him happening at the moment - I'm not going to ask for that, although I'd be very happy if we got one. What I would like instead would be recognition of the romance. ME3 seems to consider it to not be a romance - it doesn't give me the Paramour achievement, it doesn't let me discuss ANYTHING with Thane apart from his illness (what about him and Shep? What about his son? What about keeping him up to date with Shepard's mission? What about the trip to the desert? What about his change of attitude between the end of the ME2 romance and the start of the ME3 one?), it doesn't let Shepard hold his hand while he dies, or tell him she loves him. The death dialogue barely changes, and romance-specific parts were cut - reinstate them, please. Afterwards, she doesn't have a photo to remember him by. She doesn't get to stand next to Cortez when he goes to the memorial wall and put up a picture alongside him, for solidarity. All she gets is an email saying goodbye which (since I played Shadow Broker) I had already seen. Could we please get some more content for this, please? I am willing to pay DLC for this, since right now it's actively damaging the characterisation of both Thane (wierdly cold and unfeeling), my Shepard (doubly so) and everyone around her who doesn't say a word after he dies (PARTICULARLY Garrus, who was my main squadmate and decided to have a conversation with me after Thane's death all about how Ashley could have died but didn't).

This isn't even romance-specific: after he dies, nobody ever mentions him again (except during Kai Lang encounters). NOBODY. Not even the Normandy crew who served beside him, who will talk about Mordin, and Kelly, and Legion, and the VS, if/when they pass away. I even caught Tali getting drunk over Miranda once I finished Sanctuary, and the thing is Miranda was fine. I know it was a bug but it really rubbed salt in the wound.

(A technical aside: there are some animation issues around the first interaction with Thane during a romance which really need a fix: I think Shepard's meant to be clasping at his hands or something? At present she's pawing the air about 30cm above his hands. This could do with a fix!)

I'm also aware that anybody who romanced Jacob got seriously shafted. I believe in Mass Effect 2 you can get him to say "I love you", straight up (I haven't romanced him personally). While I liked Jacob's ME3 mission and thought it was fitting for his character, it's only fitting to his character if you didn't romance him. To paint him as someone who'd go from proclaiming love to starting a relationship with someone new without even informing his old girlfriend that it was over? It's character assassination. At least have him formally dump Shep first if the mission can't be rewritten to accomodate the romance properly.

I should say that I thought that 95% of Mass Effect 3 was completely fantastic - but the remaining 5% drags it down. I offer criticism in the hope that the errant 5% can be brought up to scratch and match the stellar quality of the rest of the game.

Edited to add: I really love all the ambient dialogue but I swear to god those Asari discussing the farm girl in Huerta have more dialogue than Thane does: in fact, I suspect they get more than most of the old ME2 cast get (individually, not together) in this game. Can we please get more content for them? Just more conversations and interactions generally? Please?

Modifié par cogsandcurls, 27 mars 2012 - 10:01 .

[ZombieChad]

Dear Bioware, here’s a wall of text about me changing my mind on the endings. I've not added too much detail about things as that's what I pay you for.

I’ve just finished my second ME3 play through this time as my Paragon character. As my Renegade the end kind of fitted, the Starkid saying I had choice to control or synthesise and Shepard promptly ignores the little git and kills all synthetics, so I didn’t really see what the fuss was about.  As a paragon though the endings felt hollow as it becomes apparent that even in the best case scenario I’m going to have commit what feels like a war crime in killing the Geth (who I just enabled to make peace with the Quarian’s and rise to sapience) so everyone else can live. As if I choose control or synthesis what stops the people making new synthetics anyway? Is Shepard now king of the Reapers going to come hurtling into the galaxy with his armada of super-dreadnoughts and slaughter all synthetics every few decades or so? Is he going to force a peace that makes Leto II in God-Emperor of Dune look positively egalitarian?
 
A lot of my complaints have been summarised a million times before (unsatisfactory and inconclusive endings, teleporting crew, Normandy abandoning the fight so it can dramatically crash), but since finishing it this time, the endings have soured me against the game. The game itself is a technical marvel. A nice basic mechanic to the action sections with some nice rpg elements from the small (advising people) to the large (sorting the Quarian/Geth conflict) despite some oversimplification in areas compared to previous games. It’s the bit after the Illusive Man and Anderson that the real problems start.

I’ve spent a bit of time looking at people’s views and theories and the conclusion I’ve reached is that there is no big end planned but that Bioware either didn’t have an ending that would stand up to the rest of the series and decided to opt for artsy ending and interpretatively open ending (aka crap) or (more worryingly) they couldn’t be bothered to tie all the decision’s we’ve made into a coherent ending as the deadline approached as they had a bland multiplayer to work on. It bothers me that it feels like the latter rather than the former.

So in my dreams what would I like to see? This first isn’t directly addressing any problem and is more of general feedback. Whilst the levels in London were good, I think it would make work towards recreating the rush of the Suicide Mission in ME2 by improving the impact of War Assets. Such as few choices thrown in that decide how each race fair’s during the fight by selecting them appropriately for mission objectives similar to the Suicide Mission in ME2.  EG: a covert mission needs resolving, do you call for the Aralakh Company, Asari Commando’s or STG. Krogan get the job done but get rendered combat ineffective due to headstrong tactics or just plain slaughtered if you have a low EMS, the Asari Commando’s offer a middle ground whilst STG sneak in accomplish the mission and sneak out.

I’d like to see a full spectrum of endings from the ultimate happy ending: Shepard, LI and all the cheesy cliches piled on, to the ultimate bad ending: the Reaper’s win and head back into Dark Space after parking the Citadel up in the nebula again, the new Human Reaper is birthed and joins the ranks of the Reapers in Dark Space and begins to wait patiently for the cycle to come round as the screen fades to black, with only the Reaper’s lights visible until they fade out as the mournful music slows and dies. (Now I say that I want to see that ending! I’m not helping myself here.) Most importantly please create thematically appropriate endings and options that tie into the existing mechanics (Paragon/Renegade) and character interactions (who lives/dies etc) of the rest of the game and its supporting franchise.

Finally I’d like to see Casey Hudson and Mac Walter’s do a director’s commentary on all of the endings, putting their face and voices next to the ending’s they espouse as great storytelling and tell us why they think it’s so good.

All that said I can’t see Bioware admitting the endings were weak or a mistake. I think the best we’ll see is a statement along the lines of “we are sorry our story’s end left so many of you dissatisfied, we’re not changing it so here’s an interactive cut sequence (like Genesis) to answer your questions” If the ending doesn’t get changed, I’d at least like to see how my decisions affected the outcome and answers to the questions often asked on the forums.

Please Bioware if you read this; prove me wrong on this last point as I have never wanted to be wrong more in my life and I know that you can do better. Your previous games but espeically Mass Effect 1, 2 & 99% of 3 say you can.

*editted the layout a bit*
 

Modifié par ZombieChad, 27 mars 2012 - 09:59 .

[V.Havelock]

Fan made alternative endings

Saw this from here

[Bl0dbathNBeyond]

Two things: 1) I left Liara for Tali in the second game and stuck with her. Why do I still get a flashback frame of Liara in the ending as Shepard brings about the fate of the galaxy?
It kind of feels like the game is sort of set up for you to hook up with Liara or the VS. Could this little thing be patched?

2) Are squad mates hit by the reaper beam and then surviving in the end to exit the Normandy supposed to be a plot hole or not? Really, these two things are the only issues I can't handwave away.

[Johnnycide]

A poker minigame would be nice.

[Disig]

I'm here to beg you to not accept the "indoctrination theory" as a feasible ending. It will only seem like an "it was all a dream" scenario and serve as a further disappointment.

To those who are a fan of it, I say first of all, indoctrination doesn't happen that fast. And secondly, if you're a fan of "it happened over time" well, that VI on the Asari homeworld only trusted you because you were not indoctrinated. It's still invalid.

So please, don't do it if you were thinking of it. There are much better ways to end the series.

[FabricatedWookie]

My ending experience was disorienting and dissatisfying. I attribute this to the fact that the ending threw the universe I was "fighting" for in tremendous flux. This doesn't leave many any time to absorb the previous story, and instead tries to "excite" me with a teaser trailer. That is what the ending felt like for me, a teaser trailer for the next game rather than a moment of absorbing the events that occurred. Also, I was fully expecting to be able to converse with my crew and prominent characters after the campaign. Either through another character such as specialist traynor or shepard him/herself. Instead, I know that the most important pieces of technology are gone and the reapers are too (maybe), and no way to answer the resulting questions. This is where I feel ME3 fails at being a "definitive" ending. It leaves me with the barest of orientation in the ME universe.

[jdranetz]

Please create more options for happier endings. I've lived in this world you've created, felt for the characters you created. More than a few people are living vicariously through Commander Shepard. Don't kill me, don't destroy my world, don't destroy my galaxy, don't destroy my universe.

[Sgt Reed 24]

Ashley needs dialogue after the Citadel Coup. Just like the rest of the squad!

My biggest beef with the game (other than the endings) is the way Ashley literally has one conversation with you where you can interact with her (making it feel real) ... and she's drunk on the floor!!

I was always looking forward to coming back from missions in ME1 and really eager to see what Ashley had to say about them. But in ME3, I kept waiting and waiting and it never happened!

All I got was stupid... "Cerberus is lame!" type lines and no way way to interact with my favorite squadmate. I wanted to hear what happened to her during ME2... I wanted to hear her thoughts on the events on Thessia, I wanted to see her interacting with crewmates. As it is she just seems like a static, boring character with no importance or input at all once the Citadel Coup is over.

I think something needs to be done about this.

[Dasumi Maxwell]

 Ok I have to address one more issue in the game that REALLY disappointed me. 

Why did once AGAIN those who chose Garrus as a LI get completely left out of a true romance scene!?

I could kinda understand in 2 but come on, the scene in three was even SHORTER!!! It can't be that hard to come up with a Turian body! Just slap a skin texture ove the casual Turian clothes since they are almost skin tight anyways. In all the interviews before the game came out, the creators mentioned they understood how popular Garrus was with the girls, yet we got nothing in the end! Meanwhile Liara, Kaiden and Ashley choices ALWAYS get the good steamy scene.


All I'm saying is all LI choices should get the same treatment as the others, especially in the finale.

Thanks for listining!

[Tonymac]

I just finished my second playthrough (both are imports).

I can say for one thing, the endings are not what I had hoped. Before I start ranting on it too much, I can say that it (the ending(s)) has/have grown on me. Mostly the destroy option got my attention, although I looked at them all. I guess you could say I saw hope in that one, but all left me feeling pretty glum.

I can say that honestly, I see that Bioware has put a lot of effort into the game, and a lot of thought into the endings. All in all, with exception to the ending(s) I loved the game - it is a stellar piece of work. You guys delivered! There are emotional moments in the game that are touching - truly lovely to experience. I thank you for that.

With that said, I shall do my best to be repectful concerning the endings. The Bioware team deserves at least that. Ok, so here goes. I feel that in the end, there was not that ray of hope and happiness for Shep to come through this as a winner. With the Mass Relays destroyed the Galaxy is left pretty short, figuratively speaking. Why do ALL options result in this Galaxy wide destruction? The Catalyst has one thing we all need - and that is control of the Mass Relays - we would dare not kill him since he holds this card! I am not saying have peace with the Reapers, to do so means I am indoctrinated. I am saying I would like to see the combined Galactic fleets beat the Reapers! I want a boss fight with Harbinger - a big bad one. He needs to answer for his crimes against , well, all of us.

Then when we go to lean on the Catalyst and get some answers, he holds the Ace - heck - all of them really. He can explain the cycles he has seen and all of that. We can retort by showing him the Geth and Edi. It still stands that he controls the Relays - and this will be his ticket to continued exixtence as well as ensuring the peace between organics and synthetics. With the Crucible as a power source, we could open up travel to other Galaxies - to continue our expansion and evolution or whatever - I leave that to the writers. Why not make it a Mass Effect Universe instead of a Mass Effect Galaxy? The potential for a lot more lore is there - wars, heros, love stories, civilizations - you name it.

All I really ask for is the ability with the highest Galactic Readiness ratings to WIN this thing - decisively. I want the option to be with my love interest and walk off into the sunset. It does not need to be a huge capitol expenditure, just the love interest finding Shep is even cool. Just something - hope is all thats needed.

If you want to continue the story and NOT have the Normandy on some far away planet with no mass relays in existence, then that is cool. Otherwise, I want all that I have fought for to mean something substantial.

I know that this opens up a lot of options to the game - possibly too many. With all of the love interests possible. their locations being diverse, it may not be able to be done - I am not sure. I am sure that it would be a lot of work.

I leave it up to you. All I can do it provide a broad brush stroke. The rest is in your capable hands.

[MikeC99]

I think the following articles sum things up nicely, and for any who haven't already, I thoroughly recommend reading these to get a pragmatic and business context around the ME3 ending furore:

http://www.forbes.co...ible-consumers/

http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/

http://www.forbes.co...-mass-effect-3/


(NB: There is a vid at the end of the first article - the relevant bit (about 'entitlement') is from 11:30 into the vid. )

From these Forbes articles I have extracted the following and have noted two bits in bold and underlined:

Quote 1:

I have a solution that could help fix both of their problems
all at once. I believe Bioware should release a free bit of DLC to all its
players, one that produces an “alternate ending” for the game. From a
programming perspective, it wouldn’t be much work. It would be probably a few
minutes of dialogue, and fifteen minutes of cutscenes. Three sets of five
minutes would be devoted to fleshing out each of the final decisions made in
the game, and would give players a more hearty ending than the cookie cutter,
cryptic one they received. It can use the in-game engine (the cutscenes don’t
need to be fully FMV) and doesn’t even necessarily need many of the cast
members to return for voicework, so long as the important characters are
featured in some form or another.

It seems like a win-win to me. Releasing free DLC would show
that they’re not greedy tyrants exploiting the concept of bonus content.
Updating the ending with more substance would show that they can admit when
they’re wrong, and fans would likely breathe a collective sigh of relief as they
got some much needed resolution.

Will they do such a thing? I doubt it. Admitting
mistakes is one thing, but going back and reshooting the ending would show they
dropped the ball to an incredible degree, something I highly doubt they’d own
up to. Additionally, the end of the game greets you with a message that Shepard
will have further adventures with more DLC down the line. Expected, but if
they’re trying to fix their poor ending with more paid DLC, they’re really
barking up the wrong tree with fans who are already furious with them for
exploiting the concept in the first place, and it would be like making them pay
extra to see Bioware’s own mistake fixed.

I think Bioware owes it to their fans to give them something
like this as a show of good faith. It’s not much work on their part, but would
be perceived as a gesture of goodwill to show the company hasn’t been
completely consumed by EA. Fixing the troublesome ending would give fans what
they were looking for, and doing so as a sort of apology would go a long way to
rebuilding that brand trust that’s so crucial for long term success in this
industry.


Quote 2:

My suggestion of free DLC as a peace offering to quell both
consumer’s ire at the company’s seemingly exploitative practices, and their
dissatisfaction with the ending, is to me…a worthwhile business decision. Can
they offer new ending DLC for a price, and make money? Yes, but then we’ll be
forced into another news cycle covering further rage as fans ask “how dare
they?” Yes, they would be at fault for buying it, but to paraphrase one fan,
“the ending is so unspeakably bad, I’d throw $10 at it just to make it go
away.” They might make money exploiting their own mistake, but making your
beloved series end on such a sour note that people will pay to make the pain go
away is not a sound decision from a business or creative perspective. “Pay us
to make your game suck less” is a trick that’s going to work once, and never,
ever again.


Quote 3

... once that trust fades, it doesn’t take long to go from
eager anticipation to dread, wondering how badly they’ll screw something up
next.


Finally, and on a brighter note:

http://www.forbes.co...kes-to-bioware/

(Re above link - aSee forum on this site - brilliant - and a great example to stay respectful, positive, constructive and still hold the %$#%ing line!)


My suggestion then for 'suggested changes': Bioware PROVE US WRONG!  Do something that makes us eat humble pie, swallow our pride, bend our backs to pay homage and believe we will never ever doubt you again!

We can hold the line, Dear Bioware, but can you keep the faith??
cheers
MikeC

Modifié par MikeC99, 28 mars 2012 - 12:46 .

[JasonShepard]

You know, I actually like the ending. Sure, it wasn't what I was expecting and the "press button to solve problem" aspect of the catalyst is a bit of a worn-out cliche but... from my perspective it works. Kinda. It certainly isn't what I'd have done but hey, we'll get to that. (And for the record, cliches aren't necessarily bad.)
Okay, comments on the current ending:
###By the way, anything surrounded by hashes, like this, is my own personal interpretation of events###

1) It's a problem that the three options lead to visually similar results. It detracts from the weight of the decision, especially since different choices lead to wildly different results throughout the rest of the game.

2) I think a lot of people would have liked to blow up Harbinger. I realise that Harbinger was a far more minor character in ME3 compared to ME2, but come on. Big Bad? Oldest of the Reapers? That's just crying out for a boss battle. Especially to get back for all those annoying "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL"s in ME2... For first time players, this could be remodelled into a boss battle against a Sovereign class Reaper, since they likely won't know who Harbinger is.

3) Similarly, I think we wanted to spend more time on Earth. In the end, the only reason we went to Earth was so we could get onto the Citadel. We didn't try to take back Earth, we just used it as a stepping stone.

4) If all advanced organic life is 'uplifted' by the Reapers, why was Harbinger acting as if Humanity were the only ones that mattered in ME2? And I'm not just referring to the Human Reaper, I'm also referring to his comments like "Turian. Your species was considered... too primitive." when healing party members.

3) Why is Normandy outrunning a shockwave in all 3 endings?

###

• In the Destroy ending it makes sense: Joker is doing his net best to save EDI, and, by extension, the Normandy. It does raise the question of how Joker even knew that the shockwave would effect EDI however...
• The Control ending? As I understood it, the blue shockwave *only* affects the Reapers, allowing Shepard to control them. Why would the Normandy need to escape that? Why would it be blowing up when the shockwave caught up? (In the end, I took this as an interpretation of Shepard's mental state, struggling to stay on top of the many minds of the Reapers, struggling to stay in control. Since the Normandy is the closest thing he has to a home, and is filled with people he cares about, he visualises himself as the ship. But really, thats just me. I really doubt that you guys intended that interpretation.)
• The Synthesis ending? Same problem as Control, but this time we don't even have my crazy mental state interpretation...
• The only explanation I know of that fits all three is that the Normandy is attempting to outrun the shockwave from the Mass Relay explosion. And that would imply that the destruction of the Mass Relay Network DID cause explosions similar to what was seen in Arrival. And that would be very bad for Earth... as well as everywhere else in the galaxy...

###

3a) On a similar note, do you know how remotely unlikely the chances are that the Normandy would crash-land on planet? Let alone a life-supporting planet with vegetation already present? But now I'm just plucking at threads...

4) I think people would like to know how the races of the galaxy are going to deal with the Mass Relay Network being destroyed.
###I'd like to note that this is *not* an insurmountable problem. In the Control ending, Shepard could simply have the Reapers repair the network before leaving. In the other endings... well, they've still got the QEC network. They've got 3 years of studying the Ilos Conduit and any research left by the Protheans. They've still got the brightest minds of the galaxy gathered in one location. And they presumably have the pieces of a mass relay. It's not impossible that the united forces of the galaxy could rebuild the Mass Relay Network, or at the very least construct conduits to get everyone home. (The QEC network would be useful for constructing the recieving relays...)###

5) Why, in the Destroy ending, does the crucible target *all* synthetic life? What, in the end, even distinguishes synthetic life from organic? Does it just blow up all silicon in the galaxy?! On top of that, at very high Effective Military Strength (EMS) the Catalyst doesn't mention the geth when describing how Shepard could destroy all synthetic life in the galaxy (I could be wrong here). Is this a hint that a sufficiently well designed crucible could avoid annihilating the geth?

6) Why were the Reapers building something in London before the Illusive Man alerted them to the threat of the crucible/catalyst? I'm fairly sure Anderson mentions them being busy there in a conversation before the final set of missions.

7) As I've hinted in above statements, I would like to know what happened to all the different characters after ME3 ended. This could be as simple as the slide-show ending to Dragon Age: Origins. Keep it vague, so I can fill in the blanks myself (something I'm already doing, and I suspect many other people are too).

8) Throughout my playthrough, I never saw the Normandy fire its weapons. Not once. Never did it really come under fire. It dropped some bombs on Rannoch, but that didn't count. I upgraded the shields and the armour in ME2! I put a Thanix cannon on the thing! Why has the best ship in the Alliance been demoted to a glorified troop transport? (This really isn't a major problem, but seeing the Normandy firing on all thrusters, kicking ass one last time... I'd like that.)


I think that covers my opinion of the ending, so, next on this wall of text - how I feel an ending DLC should be handled. If there even is one.


See, here's the thing. Mass Effect 3 is awesome. 10 minutes can not ruin the plentiful moments of sheer epicness that took place before those 10 minutes. I think that it's really rather unfair that everyone is focusing on what they didn't like about ME3. Even the side-missions had more weight than in ME2, because everything fed into the main aim of the game.
As I said above, I liked the ending. My Shepard, battered and bruised, striding into an explosion, gun still firing, not knowing whether he is doing the right thing, but knowing that it will break the cycle once and for all? That there, that's epic.
I don't think the ending needs replacing. I do think that it needs expanding on. And that is an important distinction.

Also, I think you (Bioware) may be in a bit of a Catch 22 situation:

• If you do release an ending DLC, something that the fans deem necessary to the plot, you could well end up in the same situation as the From Ashes controversy.
• If you release a free patch that only mildly changes the ending... well, you'll probably get complaints that the change wasn't big enough.
• If you don't release anything at all... well, people probably won't stop asking.

My advice is to release an expansion pack. Something big, which doesn't only expand on the ending, but adds a lot more. Possibly a congruent plot-line that takes place at the same time as ME3. Possibly something that lets us spend more time on Earth, or expands on the background of the reapers. With an expansion pack, the "Plot-necessary DLC" argument falls a bit flat, but at the same time you aren't working for free:). And everyone else gets to spend more time in the Mass Effect universe. Everyone wins (well, aside from the fact that you would have a whole expansion pack to design and get right...)

A few general ME3 points:

• As a solo single player, it is VERY difficult to get the best ending. I'm at an EMS of about 3500, and I understand that there is a "Shepard Survives" ending at either 4000 or 5000 (but only if you pick "Destroy"). Trust me, I've scoured the galaxy clean for War Assets. As far as I can tell, the only thing I could have done differently to earn a bit more would be to satisfy that annoying Dalatrass and not cure the genophage. Or is there an option to trick the Dalatrass into believing that you didn't cure it when you did?
• Why no Mako or Hammerhead? Seriously, the Hammerhead was a good vehicle. All it needed was tougher shields and some sort of automatic machine gun. And here I was convinced there was going to be a sequence in which we drove along the outside of a Reaper during a giant space-battle...
• Gameplay issue here: using A to roll, run AND enter cover can lead to some frustrating deaths when Shepard ducks into cover rather than GETTING AWAY FROM THE GRENADE!
• Another one: unpausing or closing the radial menu on the X360 seems to cause Shepard to start moving to the left. When in cover this can be very annoying, since Shepard might turn an (inward) corner and become exposed, or move away from the spot where he could fire.

And finally: how I would have tackled the Reaper problem if I'd been writing ME3. I know, I wasn't, and I know, this isn't what happened. And I'm not asking you to change the ending to this. I'm just putting all cards on the table to show you exactly what my expectations were. And well, I'd just like to put it out there.

###

• Sovereign had a weak spot. Directly possessing Saren while Saren's body was destroyed caused Sovereign's shields to overload, and seemed to stun the Reaper as a whole. In short, it looks like the indoctrination network can work both ways.
• To further support this idea: Harbinger always possessed Collectors while using the Collector General as a proxy or buffer. He also made a point of releasing the Collector General just before it died.
• How do we make use of this? Somehow link Shepard directly into the indoctrination network. Possibly use EDI or the Geth to 'protect' him/her from being overwhelmed. We'd probably have to board a Reaper directly to pull it off (which would be a hell of a mission in and of itself).
• Once 'inside' the network, Shepard would have to fend off indoctrination while doing something to stun the Reapers. Possibly his/her mind might be linked into the network, while in the real world Shepard the squad fend off husk attacks. The indoctrination network could cause hallucinations, possibly causing Shepard to briefly turn against the squad in confusion.
• Once the job is done, then Reapers as a whole are brought down to our level. Brought down to a point where they can be beaten conventionally. Shields off, stunned, unable to co-ordinate attacks. Still bloody dangerous, but defeatable. Barely. The combined fleet has a chance at beating them.
• Harbinger, being a pain, probably starts doing something that would restore the Reapers to full-ass-kicking capability, causing Shepard and co to directly target him. That would be the final boss battle (somehow), and the epilogue would show the allied fleet sweeping through the galaxy, fighting pitched battles against the Reapers, yet managing to win.
• Shepard didn't win the war in one battle. But at the battle for Earth he/she did turn the tide, allowing the Allied Forces to push the Reapers back and earn an eventual victory. However, being directly hooked up to the indoctrination network does, at the very least, leave Shepard mentally scarred, if not kill him/her outright.

###

Okay, I'm done. Wow, that was longer than I was intending... All that's left is to say: Mass Effect 3 is awesome. No, really, it is. You guys should be proud. And I mean REALLY proud.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 28 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[Ghostchan]

My suggestions are simple.

1) more time with the characters
Thane, jacob, and other characters from the second game. I felt as if they were put on the back list. Sure they made thire way into the story line at some point but i wanted more talks with them I went through hell and back with thane and all i get is one conversation before he is kapoot.

2) The ending felt kinda hollow. Something was off and felt as if it was just slapped on there.
Nonthing i did matterd, all the choices were similar as was the endings. I dont care that it was a sad ending, i expected sheppard to die from the start of the game. It seemed the only logical way to end the series after all.

But i did expect something afterwards. Seeing that your crew lived was not enough. I wanted to watch them mourn, watch them move on and see that despite the fact that shepards dead, that life goes on.

I have no idea if everyones ok, if earth will rebuild and it seems like the team is now stranded on a planet? will they die there?! i dont understand this at all and it makes me feel like somone just did not care what happened to them.

There needed to be an ending for everyone, not just shep.

But these are just my thoughts of course. In the end all i know is, after beating the game i do not feel the need to pick it up again like i did mass effect 1 and 2.


The game seemed really lovely up until the end. It was heartbreaking and blah blah blah but sad endings is not my beef. Not everyone can get a happy ending but i did expect and Ending at least.

[cbqueue]

krogan squad member, need some competition in terms of kill count xD

[levi.porphyrogenitus]

My last post was about what to change with the endings generally and the starchild-thing ending set-up in particular.  But why keep the starchild catalyst?  Is he necessary?  What would you replace him with?

1) The starchild catalyst could work, even as-is, so long as Shepard is given the chance to argue against the AI's rather high-handed claims regarding sythetics and organics.  I've addressed this in my previous post.

2) However, the starchild does not necessarily work very well as-is.  Changing his nature might prove useful from a story perspective.  The first clue for how to handle him comes in the form that he takes: that of the child who Shepard saw die at the beginning and who frequently appeared in h(er)is dreams.  How does the AI know to take that form as a sort of sympathetic avatar?  He must have access to Shepard's thoughts.  This turns toward the indoctrination theory, but I don't think you need to go there to achieve an interesting effect.

If the AI controls the Reapers (and isn't lying about that fact), then what if the AI is in fact Harbinger?  He is the oldest and chief of the Reapers, and presumably he'd have incorporated some kind of obedience protocols in his progeny when he grew them from bio-slurry (at the very least, an option to control the Reapers implies that there are overrides to their various wills already in place, it would merely be a question of who possesses those overrides).  Harbinger has access to all the mind-manipulating effects of Reaper technology, including mind-reading (or at least memory reading; recall that the Cerberus science team on the derelict Reaper had memory bleed-through, which would only be possible if the Reaper could read their memories).

So assuming Harbinger is behind the AI's holo-image, and assuming Harbinger can read Shepard's memories (especially fresh and raw given his repeated dreaming of the child), then it would make sense that if he were attempting to influence Shepard's decisions then he'd take the form of that kid.  He then makes his arguments about the purpose of the Reapers (here understood as 'saving' organic life by harvesting advanced species to grow into new Reapers, thereby cutting them off before they develop synthetic life and allowing new species to rise up on the ashes of the old), at which point Shepard can argue against them (crucial if you retain the synth v org conflict as the basis for the Reaper cycles).

How does this change anything?  It gives the option for Shepard to figure out, or for Harbinger outright to reveal, that the AI is actually Harbinger himself.  This will be the ultimate boss conflict that has been set up for nearly all of ME 2 and 3.  I really like the idea of sufficient war resources combined with high reputation to allow a dialog resolution to the ending (perhaps distracting Harbinger long enough for the fleets to destroy him).  Lesser endings could force the player to fight a battle similar to the Saren boss fight, with Harbinger destroying lots of ships as the fleet is simultaneously going after him, with higher war rating meaning fewer casualties and more or better ships in the fleet.  The Illusive Man boss fight that got rejected might make a comeback, with Harbinger possessing and animating his thoroughly-indoctrinated corpse (such a fight would have certain symbolic overtones, as it would mirror the Saren/Sovereign fight)

A "bad" ending could result in Hackett dying, in the Normandy sacrificing itself to finish off Harbinger, or in all manner of other tragic consequences for failing to prepair (one easy way to make things worse would be for some Reapers still to be active when the Harbinger battle starts, since not as many ships were there so they couldn't destroy them all in time, which in turn would lead to worse casualties).  The Citadel could blow up and crash to earth, causing an extinction-level event, and the epilogue could reflect the massive loss of life and its impact on the galaxy.

An "average" ending could have Harbinger realize what is happening just as the last other Reapers go down, provoking the boss fight.  Allied casualties would be high, but Hackett would survive and the Normandy would only be damaged, not destroyed.  The Citadel might be damaged and rendered uninhabitable, but not crash into earth.

A "good" ending might involve Harbinger being distracted by Shepard's arguments either until the fleet gets the jump on him or until he surrenders and withdraws his Reapers on his own (repeated paragon/renegade options, uniting the Geth/Quarians and Joker/EDI, etc.).  In the former case, the boss fight would still happen, but it'd be a bit easier (Harbinger would start out weakened, his TIM puppet would be subsequently easier to kill, maybe lacking barriers or something).  In the latter, the boss fight would not happen at all, as you have earned the right to a relatively peaceful ending.

3) What I'd really like to see, though, is a change in the nature of the catalyst.  I imagine making it anything other than the citadel would involve way too much work (time, effort, and most of all money) to be worth doing (it might have been neat to have the catalyst be some ancient dark energy device in Haestrom, which could be an explanation for why the star there is decaying way too fast, but that would require a lot of reworking and therefore would seem untenable).

Given then that the citadel is the catalyst, what does it do?  It seems that the Reapers having to interact with the citadel to get it to function for them means that it should not be an independent controller of those same Reapers, otherwise why would Sovereign need to stay behind, why would the keepers need a signal from Sovereign?  Why not just have the AI activate things itself and avoid all the risk and trouble?

So the citadel as catalyst should instead relate to its ability to act as a sort of super-relay.  It doesn't interact with all the normal relays (that's the alpha relay's job, which is now destroyed).  Instead, it can create a sort of relay-effect that pulls things to it.  Combined with the crucible, then, it must yank all the Reapers to close proximity and then do something to them.

What is a crucible?  It's the part of a furnace where heated metal fragments collect, or maybe a tool in which metal or other materials are worked at extremely high temperature.  So the catalyst's job is to gather the Reapers around it, and the crucible unleashes its crazy amount of energy.  This should be a massive explosion, perhaps nova-scale, which would destroy the Reapers.  When Shepard figures this out, he knows that if he activates it, he and everyone in the Sol system will all die, unless they are close enough to the relay to get out.

Paragon - Warn the fleets to get out, to evacuate as many people as possible in a desperate attempt to save as many lives as he can.  This risks some of the Reapers having time ot escape, but enough will still die to mean that the war is as good as won.

Renegade - Order the fleet to press the Reapers hard, to keep them locked in close to the citadel so the crucible can do its job and guarantee a total victory.  The cost will be high, but no Reapers will escape.

That is a bad ending, though.  Everyone who you care about is dead, pretty much.  Therefore it only happens with low war rating.  How do you make it better, though?

Medium war rating (3-4k maybe?) might allow your scientists to have figured out what the crucible does so you aren't firing it blind.  They modify it to be a shaped charge, allowing you to spare earth and much of the fleet.  You still die, as do many of your allied vessels (again, paragon/renegade options would adjust how ruthless/thorough your victory is), but at least the Normandy, Earth, and most or all of your friends and allies live.

High war rating (5k+ or something) should mean that the scientists had enough time to figure out a way to do the shaped charge thing to limit collateral damage, but also the fleet and the crucible itself have enough conventional arms to win without firing the superweapon in the first place.  You still need to attach it to the citadel to trigger the catalyst summon effect, but then your fleet dukes it out with the Reapers - and wins.  Again, paragon/renegade options would be great when giving orders to the fleet.

4) Ultimately, though, I'd like to see a combination of 2 and 3.  Harbinger is the AI, trying to manipulate Shepard to prevent him from using the crucible in the first place.  He'd have to trigger the catalyst to get Harbinger's attention on the citadel I think (and to force the show-down with the entire Reaper fleet).  High reputation, high war rating, and certain plot developments (Geth/Quarians, EDI/Joker) should all impact the resulting conversation (plenty of paragon/renegade choices in the argument with Harbinger).  Only the very best ending has Harbinger stand down, while the 'good' ending would see the fleet win conventionally, the 'middlng' ending would see a shaped-charge crucible blast, and the 'bad' ending would be a general nova-scale detonation.

Shepard can survive both good and best, but not middling or bad.  Likewise, different endings would see different characters living or dying.  Some might die in the fleet action that would have lived with a shaped-charge blast, for example.  If Shepard lives, some kind of final playable scene is necessary to have a last chat with the significant survivors (especially the LI).  If Shepard dies, then a memorial service is a must (a general one held by the surviving Council species in the 'bad' ending, or a specific one for Shepard and the others who died to save earth in the 'middling' one; I picture the LI shedding a tear in that ending, or maybe saying a few words to the assembled people).

5) Regardless, an epilogue is a must.  My previous post has greater detail on that, so I won't repeat that here.

[MikeC99]

Face creation. Two issues:

(i) No matter how long I spend creating a face, it's not until the game actually gets underway that you can really get all the angles on it. Too many times I've thought "Great! Just the way I want it!" Then a few seconds into game play and "God, the cheeks aren't supposed to stick out like that!"  Now this wouldn't be so bad but for....

(ii) Intro movie. Arrrgghhhhhh! As there's no way to 'escape' out of this I'm stuck for what admitedly is only minutes but after the fourth of fifth time seems like lifetimes before I can dump it and go back to fix the face! Have I already said 'Arrrgghhhh!'?

Solutions: Provide a fully rotational view of the face, and preferably something to zoom in and out of. And/or provide means to exit intro movie and go straight to game.

I'd also push for 'esc' out of movie anyway - especially if it's a run through. It's not that hard to store info locally to identify if game is new on local PC or has been run before. I've seen this done on other games, ie forced to watch first time, but able to opt out on further games, even if started as 'new game'.

Mission Logs.

Update the mission logs, so when you have collected X for Y the log reflects this, rather than just have the initial mission statement staring at you no matter what you may have done to progress it.


The Space Hamster.

Please can it do just one more thing other than creep out, stand up agaist the glass then run back? And can I please name it? Better yet, if you are really enamoured (sic - I'm Australian) in the idea of choice = no choice (sorry - really couldn't help myself!) have it creep out then run back, then Shep says: "Timid little thing, aren't you? Think I'll call you Boo."  C'mon Bioware, you KNOW you want to!!!!!!!!   ( I assume having a planet somewhere called 'Minsc' that is where the space hamsters come from is just a bit too infra dig?). (Can we vote on this? ... Ayes/ Eyes - so har... d ... mu..st  stop   sel..f ..!!! .... *

cheers
MikeC

* - please wait for dlc to find how this ends.

[Cybermortis]

OK, I'm going to leave the endings out of this entirely. I think at this point there is nothing that can be said that hasn't already been said.

Instead I'm going to look at some areas of the game where I think some tweaking should be considered;

Cut scenes; Too long, and in too many cases no option to skip them. This is fine for someone going through the game for the first time, but becomes really annoying if you try starting a second run through. If possible an option to skip or fast forward through them would be helpful.

Galactic Readyness; Those who do NOT wish to do the multiplayer are being unfairly punished by the way the system works. (Leaving out the whole 'does it really matter in the end?' question) Either the readyness level needs to be set higher than it is or the value of some of the war assets needs to be increased to give those only interested in the SP a fairer chance.

Scanning; The Reapers seem a little too sensitive to me. Maybe tone their sensitivity down a little - if possible maybe it could be connected to the hardness setting. Which would allow those playing for the sake of the story to collect assets via scanning faster and more easily than is currently the case.

[leimana]

 I loved the game until the end.  This
  
and this
 

Just give us what was originally promised.

[TheDasterdly]

everyone likes to write pages in their responses.
Me? I just would like some Jack

[ThunderSoul]

I don't know what you guys are saying, but all I want is to see those blue kids!

I want those blue kids...

[ThunderSoul]

 

[SnakeEyesX66]

we the fans want a ending where shepard is alive and knowing that his mission was a success

[Erathsmedor]

SnakeEyesX66 wrote...

we the fans want a ending where shepard is alive and knowing that his mission was a success

Considering we have invested hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours over multiple playthroughs, that is the least we have earned

Modifié par Erathsmedor, 28 mars 2012 - 02:54 .