7052 réponses à ce sujet

[rag3ous]

Operation hammer needs to be expanded to include effects of your alliances. The the beam scene should show how your crew survived(those that are with you). Then we need to see how Normandy was able to evac people, and in what time frame that occurs. Then being marooned on a planet should be shown as something other than a death sentence via starvation for some and inbreeding by others. Lastly, a post war aftermath would be good, but I don't see how that works with the Normandy crash. That scene is pretty bad though.

[FS3D]

levi.porphyrogenitus wrote...

I'm just going to list what I think needs to happen for a satisfying group of endings to be possible.

1) Catharsis.  Closure.  Whatever you want to call it, any story with tragedy and emotional upheaval requires a moment of cleansing that allows the audience assimilate what they just experienced.  For ME3, that obviously requires some kind of aftermath, showing the impact of the final choices on the universe and, more importantly, the people in it.  The characters who it would be most important to follow would be Ashley/Kaiden, Liara, Garrus, Tali, and, if not one of those, the LI.  I picked those in particular because they'd been with you since the beginning.

Also I'd suggest the various major thematic elements be tied off, from the Krogan to the Geth/Quarians, the future of the Council and the Alliance, and even some kind of memorial for Shepard (if Shepard is dead, or even if people just think that [s]he's dead).

2) Epilogue material.  Dragon Age pulled this off beautifully, with text overlayed on a background image (ideally the image would change for each section of text).  No expensive cinematics needed, no voice-overs necessary (though both those elements for the major plot points might be nice), just text and a background image.  It should track everything from the fate of Hackett and the doings of the Rachni to the many children that Conrad and whats-her-name have and the fate of the news lady who everyone seems to enjoy punching (with the text itself being tied to one or more of the 'thousands of variables' that got ported from 1-2-3 or from 2-3, or even those that were introduced in 3).

3) Paragon/Renegade options in the final dialog.  If you scrap the starchild-thingy, then whatever the new final encounter is should still include these.  However, using the starchild as an example, when he starts yammering about how sythetics and organics will always end up killing each other, you should get blue and red options.  For example:

Paragon - Even if it is true, we still deserve the chance to make that choice.  Life is meaningless if it is not free.  Humans throughout our history have died rather than give up our right to determine our own fate.  We know that such freedom can come with a price, but we are willing to pay it.  If that means that, a century from now, our sythetics rise up against us, then so be it.  You have no right to take that choice away from us.

Renegade - You think sythetics will ever be able to destroy humanity?  Look what we did to your precious Reapers!  Mankind united the galaxy against them.  Mankind took the fight to them... and won!  I may die here, but I will die fighting.  I will die having beaten you and your minions.  I and the other soldiers who gave their lives, who sacrificed everything to win this war, will not have died in vain.  Do you think future generations will be less willing?  Will they be less capable?  I think not.

Of course, if you have gotten EDI and Joker together, and/or united the Quarians/Geth, then you should get a third option referencing that fact (or maybe different paragon/renegade options).  Something along the lines of:

- You say that organics and sythetics will always kill each other.  I say, you are wrong.  Look at the Quarians.  They thought the same way you did, and it nearly brought about their own destruction.  They didn't even try to talk to the Geth, they just started shooting.  But look at what happened when they finally put down their weapons and actually talked with one another.  Now not only are they at peace, but they are doing great things together, things that neither one could have accomplished alone.  If that's not enough, then look at EDI.  She's a military AI, in control of the most advanced ship in the Alliance fleet.  Yet she's loyal and trustworthy, but not because of any artificial safeguards - that's just who she is, who she has become.  She's in a loving relationship with her pilot, and would never do anything to harm him or the rest of her crew.  Are we to believe that she will inevitably rise up and kill us?  I find that not only laughable but insulting, to her and to us.

Regardless, if you pick paragon or renegade, or soem third option opened up by the Quarians/Geth and EDI/Joker subplots, then you should be able to convince the starchild-thing to call off the Reapers on his own, either to hide them in darkspace until such time as they are needed (for whatever reason) or to have them fly into the nearest stars to destroy them in such a way that their baleful influence will not be felt by future organics.

That brings me to the three choices as they currently stand.  Destroy the Reapers is dumb, not because it's dumb to destroy them, but that somehow it will magically destroy all sythetic life forms.  This makes peace between Quarians and Geth useless, and breaks Joker's heart, and doesn't make sense anyway.  What kind of magic energy pulse could destroy all synthetic life without destroying every form of higher technology anyway?

Control is dumb, not because it's dumb to control them, but because you don't actually pick what you'll do with them.  There should be a selection of options that you can take when you opt for control.  Are you going to send them into darkspace to bide their time?  Allow humanity (or all the Council races) to study them to learn all manner of advanced science?  Or go on a conquering spree.  Perhaps you'll even send them all into stars to destroy them utterly without troublesome wreckage to indoctrinate unfortunate organics at some far-future time.

Sythesis is dumbe because it is dumb.  When Deus Ex did it, it was heavily foreshadowed, and the whole point of your character's existence was that he was prepared from before birth to fulfill sythesis.  How are we supposed to believe that some exotic energy pulse is able spontaneously to sythesize every organic and every sythetic with each other?  It should take intense preparation of the organic with interface ports, extensive nano-technological implants, and who knows what else, while the sythetics would have to be carefully programmed with a customized interface tailored to the specific individual with whom it will be merging.  Shepard I could see synthesizing, but that's pretty much it.  Those with Reaper augments are little more than tools, incapable of true sythesis.  Quarians and Geth, can't really merge, though they are more than capable of very close cooperation.

Those are my main suggestions.  I may have more in future, but I'm out of time for now and this post has become rather long.

Plus one (million)

[macrocarl]

The only thing I want in future DLC is expanding on the ending. I loved the game. I'm into the IT, and am dying to know what really happened. If it's more armor, another team mate, extra assets, new hats, a fruit bowl for the lounge, another side quest that has nothing to do with the ending in any way, I won't buy it. But if it's DLC fleshing out more Shep post-end of campaign, then I will actually pay you in diamonds! And Spanish Doubloons!

[Menalaos1971]

Erathsmedor wrote...

SnakeEyesX66 wrote...

we the fans want a ending where shepard is alive and knowing that his mission was a success

Considering we have invested hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours over multiple playthroughs, that is the least we have earned

I don't disagree that this probably should have been a possible ending, but it should have been very difficult to pull off, IMO.

[Erathsmedor]

Menalaos1971 wrote...


I don't disagree that this probably should have been a possible ending, but it should have been very difficult to pull off, IMO.

Absolutely agree. Make it that we need  a real high EMS, we need the right choices like for the suicide mission in ME2. We are not asking for it just to have it. Make us earn it by all means but at least give us the chance to earn it.

[Dasumi Maxwell]

Erathsmedor wrote...


Absolutely agree. Make it that we need  a real high EMS, we need the right choices like for the suicide mission in ME2. We are not asking for it just to have it. Make us earn it by all means but at least give us the chance to earn it.

Absolutly,

If we worked hard for three games we should at least have this option. It personally bugs me a great deal that one of the arguments for the ending is " not every story can have a happy ending,". True, but the great thing about Mass Effect is that your decisions should create that ending! If you would rather see the end be ( let's face it) deeply tragic and difficult to even watch, that's your choice, your story. 

But a lot of fans want to have a option that you work hard for and achieve that impossible dream!

I mean look at what happens if you reunited the Geth  and the quarians! It was so happy go lucky that there might as well been Tali riding a unicorn over a rainbow! Why can't we have the option for the ending like that?

[Athla k4]

At least16 endings were expected due to what has been said by the makers of mass effect. I would like the other 13 endings to be included.
The only endings we actually got Included some random AI stuck in it's own circular logic? And destroying the relays?
Well, guess we all know what's next.... prequels, and pay to play MMORPG
"Just a note, I loved the other 98% of the game but what happened at the end is just bad writing."

Modifié par Athla k4, 28 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[MikeC99]

Athla k4 wrote...

At least16 endings were expected due to what has been said by the makers of mass effect. I would like the other 13 endings to be included.
The only endings we actually got Included some random AI stuck in it's own circular logic? And destroying the relays?
Well, guess we all know what's next.... prequels, and pay to play MMORPG
"Just a note, I loved the other 98% of the game but what happened at the end is just bad writing."

Agree totally with the sentiment, but to be fair, there are other endings, eg one where you get shot by TIM and don't even get to the A, B or C thing.

Has anyone documented all the endings there are? If so, can you post or re-post a link?

cheers
MikeC

[worldwide]

MikeC99 wrote...

Athla k4 wrote...

At least16 endings were expected due to what has been said by the makers of mass effect. I would like the other 13 endings to be included.
The only endings we actually got Included some random AI stuck in it's own circular logic? And destroying the relays?
Well, guess we all know what's next.... prequels, and pay to play MMORPG
"Just a note, I loved the other 98% of the game but what happened at the end is just bad writing."

Agree totally with the sentiment, but to be fair, there are other endings, eg one where you get shot by TIM and don't even get to the A, B or C thing.

Has anyone documented all the endings there are? If so, can you post or re-post a link?

cheers
MikeC

technically TIM shooting you isn't really considered an ending more of a "you failed your mission" sorta thing...this guy pretty much stated how it is, there is one ending basically shepard dies, mass relays destroyed, and the normandy gets stranded on an island. He also pretty much states what I would have liked to see

[IhateEA-Mask]

This pretty funny video is another one of those good videos that explains whats wrong with ending(and in good detail and using other examples from other sci fi)

[Conor1320]

Clan Urdnot wants the Shepard alive!! Wrex declared his name would be known to all as hero and friend!!

Modifié par Conor1320, 28 mars 2012 - 05:32 .

[Atlantean Angel]

Dear Bioware and community, 

I'm extremely happy to hear that Bioware listens to its fans and, in response to their comment about welcoming constructive criticism, I just wanted to do my part and put forth a few suggestions.

We were promised multiple endings that would reflect our choices throughout the 3 games. We didn't get it. We got 3 endings that were for all intents and purposes... the same. We also got a Dues Ex Machina. A very literal "god of the machines". This is not the grandeur of Bioware that we've come to love, respect and expect. 

These endings didn't even seem to reflect any overall Renegade or Paragon affiliation. By presenting us with 3 equal choices at the end of the game that ANYONE could choose no matter whether they've played as Renegade or Paragon, no matter whether they did the bare minimum to prepare for the war or the ultimate maximum... is proof of our complaint that none of our choices throughout the series were taken seriously. None of it mattered. And I thought the thing that made Mass Effect stand above all other games was the fact that our choices mattered. 

Please eliminate the Citadel god-child. Dues Ex Machina's are not needed. A new character at the end of the game is not needed. Destroying the Mass Effect relays, effectively stranding everyone within their own systems and rendering our hard-won alliances moot... is not needed. (Not to mention the fact that the last time we destroyed a Relay it obliterated an entire system, killing billions... plot holes like that make a huge difference) Shepard would never have bowed to the ultimatums presented by this god-child. Even on the brink of death, any Shepard in the Mass Effect universe would have fought against overwhelming odds for the galaxy's right to make its own choices about its future. We, as fans, want the same freedom. 

What was the point of collecting all those Paragon or Renegade reputation points if we're not allowed to convince the ultimate bad guy around to our way of thinking in the end? Or at least presented with the chance at it, if we do everything right. If the god-child is impressed by Shepard's tenacity and the fact that he/she is the first organic to stand in its presence... then make it shut up for a few minutes! So that Shepard can tell it to "get the hell out of his/her galaxy and take its freaky murderous Reaper friends with it! And leave the Mass Relays intact as you go, thank you very much." I know my Shepard would have had a fit at that comment about "the created will always rebel against their creators" ... I just got the Geth and Quarians back on good terms. I think I'll take my chances with them, not the god-child's options. 

(One side note about the god-child's options:  The synthesis option only makes sense if the god-child is, in fact, a God.  Which only contributes to his annoying position as a Dues Ex Machina.  There is no scientific explanation for why living beings would suddenly find their genetic code altered to include tech at the drop of a hat.  Nevermind the "how" of it.  And... why would such an option require the sacrifice of Shepard to make it work?  If the machine is programmed to allow this option, then it's programmed to allow the option.  No sacrifice, no blood, no organic material required.) 

Make the endings fit our choices. If we've managed to get the Geth and Quarians back on talking terms, then let's not go destroying the Geth in order to destroy the Reapers, please. If we said "screw the Geth" then sure, by all means, destroy all synthetics. But make the endings match our choices. Please. And if we want the Reapers to just pick up and leave... give us an option to convince the god-child to do things our way. If it truly is the creator and controller of the Reapers... it can do that. Or replace the god-child with Harbinger as a spokesman for the Reapers...and convince it to take its friends and go. Whatever. And if we do everything right, all the hours of multiplayer, all the war assets, all the allies... give us a chance at victory. Heroes do not ALWAYS die. In fact... that assumption is cliche.

Let us see what happened to all the allies we fought so hard to win. Let us see what happened to our friends and our lovers. If we survived, let us sit on the beach with Garrus. If we died, let us at least see what we fought to save... let us see the firstborn Krogan free of the genophage... let us watch Bakara and Wrex name it Mordin. No matter whether Shepard lived or died, we, and the Galaxy, deserve one helluva victory celebration. 

Thanks for your time and all your efforts on our behalf.

[Raynulf]

Erathsmedor wrote...

Considering we have invested hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours over multiple playthroughs, that is the least we have earned

Careful.

The unfortunate truth is that, regardless of the hype that the ending to live up to, the game, the product, is what it is, and Bioware are under no obligation to change it. We are not (and should not) be saying that Bioware must change the ending, but rather that we think they should change the ending - particularly if they want our continued business.

For as much as their developers are artists, Bioware/EA is a business.

(There is the argument of false advertising, given all the painfully false statements made during interviews with the gaming media, but that is a separate matter and probably too legally ambigious to really bother with, much as it may chafe).


The ending the game shipped with, regardless of the how good/bad you consider the craftsmanship, is not the ending of the Mass Effect story. It's the ending to a different story, with different themes and characters, and as it has no logical place in the game, we the players, the customers, with thousands of years of cultural training of how stories go - to the point where it is so ingrained as to not require conscious thought, cannot help but reject it.

And as such, it is a failure.


And so, pretty much universally, we ask for the same change: Please finish the story. Not a story, but the story that was being told.

[Erathsmedor]

IhateEA-Mask wrote...



This pretty funny video is another one of those good videos that explains whats wrong with ending(and in good detail and using other examples from other sci fi)

A brilliant video that I second that Bioware should watch to get an idea of what is wrong with the whole ending sequence

[Chrislo1990]

Besides the ridiculolus ending I also found ME3 lacking in terms of the dialogue trees. By God most of the time I had to choose between two options and that's it. I went in expecting richer dialogue trees wiht my squad and especially my love interest. Instead Bioware dumbed down the level interactivity in ME3. It really bothered me that a majoroty of the game is spent just pressing the talk button and having Shepard engage in coversation with individuals without any sort of control over him. More often than not he would say things I would not have preferred to have picked had I been given a dialogue tree with more options. Richer dialogue options NEED to return in future DLC, especially ending DLC. I was so frustrated that everytime I wanted to spreak to my love interest, in my case Ashley, she would only say a sentence to me on the Normandy. I wanted to intreact with her through dialogue trees, not the damn kasumi/zaeed system implemented in Mass Effect 2. As a harcore fan of the prevous installments, I am am very disappointed. Why oh why did they dumb down the level of control we had over our own characters?

[Calamity]

 Besides getting rid of the Deus Ex ending - Please fix it so that MP has NOTHING to do with SP.

[sydranark]

 This guy went out of his way to make a 39-minute long video on what to do with the ending. I strongly suggest that the devs watch the video, as he makes numerous valid points. 

 

Good luck!

[GennadiosMxms]

Cut the kid out of the game entirely aside from the shot of him flying his toy frigate and his shuttle being blown to bits. The voice acting was horrid, the airducts scene felt fake and manufactured for sympathy, and the nightmare scenes were just boring.

Cut scenes of our War Assets in action, the Batarian fleet promised by that bastard I couldn't bring myself to kill in the first game, the citadel defense force, and the Salarian STG.

I'm not even asking for difficult stuff that you guys don't have models for like the promised Rachni fleets, or the Elcor tanks, though that would be awesome.

[phreespirit626]

Indoctrination theory + this video's proposed endings . 
Start watching at 9:40, everything else beforehand was an explanation of the original dark energy theory. I will try to summarize the thoughts and ideas here as much as I can below. 


EXPLANATION OF REASONS BEHIND PROPOSAL

1. Core Concept: Triumph through Unity

Something that the Mass Effect series has done so impeccably is the concept of triumph of the bonds of fellowship and unification (not uniformity) of a diverse group of individuals over seemingly impossible situations and odds. Although Shepard is always the spearhead of the operations, he/she could not have done it without the aid of his/her squadmates and the galaxy. This concept of unity is first brought up in ME1 most notably with the reporter Ah-Jilani and Rear Admiral Mikhailovich, both who protested loudly over the "alien crewmembers". However in the end it worked because of the unity between them all. ME2 could not be even more apparent with the fact of "THE suicide mission" and how Shepard unites his/her squadmates to the cause of stopping the Collectors. In ME3, Javik speaks about how the Protheans were in no way unified, maybe uniformed but certainly not unified. Only the Protheans fought the Reapers, all the other "lesser" races were uninvolved doing there own and inevitably consumed by the Reapers. When Shepard is speaking with Admiral Hackett and asks, "why me?", he essentially responds with "you're the leader of this war, only you can bring the galaxy together". If you play ME1, ME2 and ME3 correctly, the Genophage can be cured thus uniting the Turians and Krogans peacefully, and the Geth and the Quarians achieve peace and their war ends. Then for the final armada, even the batarians, the elcors, the Hanar and Drell, the Volus, and the Rachni join alongside the major fleets (Council Races, Quarians, Krogans, and Geth). Never before in history has there been such a unification of purpose!

2. Reapers are not totally impervious to "conventional means"

Based on information was shown in ME1, ME2 and even some bits of ME3 that the Reapers did not necessarily need a dues ex machina machine created by millions of lifecycles to stop them. If all war assets are gathered, it is possible to defeat the Reapers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROPOSAL

(Before the Harbringer beam and indoctrination)

The Armada land ground forces to divert the Reaper's attention so the Crucible can be docked. The diversion is successful and The Crucible is docked by nothing happens. In fact, the Crucible was a trap laid by the Reapers so all advanced life forms would gather in one place so they all could be "dealt with" in one fell swoop. In response, Shepard gets on the comm and essentially states "we are going to go done fighting until we have drawn our last breath because they are not going to take us so quietly". A scene shows the entire armada at Shepard's back and Habringer lands in front of Shepard then the indoctrination happens.

(After Indoctrination and the "best ending/ THE FINALE)

Shepard's squadmates gets them out of the rubble and they face off Habringer in an epic boss battle (with one exception). One of the three scenarios follows:

• EMS < 2,000: All ground forces have been destroyed including Shepard and the squad. The armada flings whatever resources that are left but are ultimately destroyed by the Reapers.
• 2,000 < EMS < 5,000: One fleet of ground forces is left and Shepard and squad are alive. The boss battle begins where the goal is to "wear" down Harbringer (meaning depleting his health bar in the fight or last for a certain length of time) but it takes very long for the armada so by the time they show up to destroy Harbringer, he destroys the ground forces and Shepard and Squad. The armada ends up destroying the Reapers and there are endings & epilogue afterwards.
• EMS > 5,000: All ground forces are alive and Shepard and Squad are alive. The boss battle is shorter, grounds forces Shepard are not decimated. Shepard also gets a cutscene of proclaiming the strength of forces and they will not give up) and the armada destroys Harbringer. There is an ending and epilogue afterwards.

(After Scenarios/ THE IMMEDIATE ENDING - CUTSCENES)

Ending of Scenario #1: The Reapers are harvesting life and then retreating back into dark space. No epilogue.

Ending of Scenario #2: There is a cutscene that pans over the ones that are alive, i.e. Admiral Hackett, ackwowledging deaths and a speech addressing the armada. Then epilogue.

Ending of Scenario #3: Cutscenes addressing each squadmate (both past and current) and important characters (Dr. Chakwas, Joker, etc) and their plans/future. For instance, if you didn't romance Garrus, Tali and Garrus plan to get together and settle on Rannoch at Tali's "planned" home. All these are using the in-game engine instead of CGI. There is talk about a huge party being planning on Earth with the galaxy invited because they just defeated the Reapers and everyone is in an uplifted mood. Yes there were sacrifices but they did it! The last cutscene is Shepard standing in front of the memorial on the Normandy. He/she runs her hand alongside the panels of names of those that were lost and the camera follows. It is a quiet moment for the fallen, acknowledgment of their sacrifices that were made and their important of their roles (because there really wasn't much emphasis on that). Once done, Shepard leaves to go to the party and scenes blacks out. Cues epilogue.

(EPILOGUE - TEXT)

This ending is a text ending with faint background images similar to Dragon Age: Origins & Awakening and Neverwinter Nights 1. What this allows is to put a massive amount of variables into the ending so it can contain just about anything. Bioware has often boasted about 1,000+ variables that were imported to the game excluding the ones in ME3. Every single variable that had a tag on it would have a paragraph or page explaining the long term impact from little to big decisions. A little thing for example would be people like Shiala from ME1 if we saved her and Zu's Hope or Giana Parasini, the Noverian Internal Affairs Agent. A big thing would be the genophage which could be dependent on what you did. If Wrex was the leader, saved Eve, Mordin sacrifices himself, there is a cure with no sabotage, etc, then the curing is a good impact and the Krogans find their place in the galactic community and have their own culture. What's going on with the Quarians? Again, if everything is done right and Shepard achieved peace then they're co-existing properly, the Quarians have succeeded in re-terraforming Rannoch, and the Geth have been accepted in the galatic community with the help of the Quarians. What happened to the Rachni? Where they saved both times, once?  

The last thing would be Shepard's fate. Who was ultimately romanced, was their agreement of having/adopting children, paragon/renegade levels, etc.? Part of the main appeal of the Mass Effect series is the player's attachment to their Shepard, how they act, how they look, who they are with, etc. It is only fair to the character of Shepard that his/her final fate be known to the players that have invested so much into them. For example, my Shepard romanced Garrus both ME2 and ME3, definitely wanted kids, and was a full paragon. Based on this information, my Shepard would certainly settle down with Garrus, left military with honors, had a pension to cover expenses for the rest of her life, honored as a hero for the rest of her life, and has tons of adopted babies. Garrus and Shepard would then get in a ship and get lost in the stars only to come back every once and a while to "check in" on the galaxy. This is still all text!

As far as the background, there could be subtle story telling. For instance when covering the Quarians and the Geth, there could be an ordinary house right where Tali "pictured it" and in the foreground is the rock Shepard gave her to carry around with her. Little things like that would really cement the closure and aid the catharsis which most epic and stories are supposed to give.

Then the last scene is of the grandpa telling the child of "the Shepard."

The end.

REMEMBER! This is the epilogue is for the Mass Effect series, not just Mass Effect 3, so it should be long and detailed and giving closure to all the things that are tracked. 

Modifié par phreespirit626, 28 mars 2012 - 07:24 .

[MarcusFrost88]

MrBtongue's video (see link below) is without a doubt one of the most balanced and comprehensive critiques of the ending I've seen to date (clocking in at a whopping 39 minutes). Through compelling analysis placing Mass Effect within the larger framework of the Sci-Fi genre, the author establishes the illogical, convoluted reasoning (which runs counter to the established mythos of the Mass Effect Universe) required to make sense of the ending. Key talking points include: genre, character focus, central conflict, and (perhaps most importantly) narrative coherence, discussing how the ending of Mass Effect 3 eschews the conventions of all four as they've been represented in the franchise up until that point. He succinctly describes ways in which Bioware could improve on the ending provided:

1) Lose the hologram kid
2) Get the mood right
3) Focus on characters
4) Keep it simple

In short, this video offers a wealth of useful information Bioware should be apprised of when considering how to potentially amend the ending of Mass Effect 3 via future DLC. Bottom line: this is must-watch material for anyone following the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy.

Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage

*Edited 11:52 AM, 03/28/12*

Modifié par MarcusFrost88, 28 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[Chyvalrous]

I liked the ending but the Catalyst could have done with more build up before the sudden reveal.
Whether
you think the idea of a greater universal being is a good one or not,
it adds an origin to the overall story - personally I choose to see the
Catalyst as either an AI created in the first cycle who chose to
cultivate organic life, rather than [a] god.

Anyway, There is
scant foreshadowing to this ending, which is one possible caue of the
WTF!? moment the fandom seems to have collectively experienced - with
one vlogger repeatedly stating 'It does not fit'. I tend to agree - the
only allusion is a throwaway comment from a dying Destroyer and a line
from Javik, which a player will miss if they don't speak to him often
enough.
I would like to see a DLC released which takes place during
the game in which some pre-Prothean relic is discovered, or some
pre-Prothean data is retrieved from the prothean Crucible schematics,
which leads on to a quest where the Prothean and pre-Prothean
discoveries about the Catalyst / greater universal being are alluded to
and explored in greater detail. Something which would relate the ending
to the greater story.

[Teamsleeper]

Make some Jack content , a really really big Jack content !!!!

[Calamity]

sydranark wrote...

 This guy went out of his way to make a 39-minute long video on what to do with the ending. I strongly suggest that the devs watch the video, as he makes numerous valid points. 

 

Good luck!

Love this video. He doesnt tell them point by point how to fix it, because he (and we all know) that Bioware knows how to write a good story, and end a good story. They just made a mistake on this one.

[Raynulf]

sydranark wrote...

 This guy went out of his way to make a 39-minute long video on what to do with the ending. I strongly suggest that the devs watch the video, as he makes numerous valid points. 

 

Good luck!

Ordinarilly, I don't post exclusively to advertise a link... but that video is gorgeous and worth every minute.

[Omnicrat]

[edited due to odd formating]

[mods, if you can fix the remaining odd formating, please do so]

I am sorry to come so late to this discussion, but it took me this long to realize why my copy of mass effect wasn't registering.  Because this discussion has gone on for so long, I realize that by now most of my points will have already been made, but hopefully I will be able to add something.

For ease of reading, I will bullet each point, following it with a small paragraph explaining said point.

First off (all though it is hardly necessary at this point) what was wrong.

• Glowing Space Elevator #1:  I, of course, refer to the means by which Shepard gets onto the Citadel  It is a minor complaint, but worth addressing in my opinion.  I believe the game calls it a conduit, implying it is a small, one directional mass relay. Even if that is the case, what use do the reapers have for it? If it is meant to take supplies up to the Citadel, why do you comeout in what appears to be a storage area for a protein vat?
• Space Child: This form is unnecessary and only makes sense with regard to the indoctrination theory.  How does the Catalyst know this Child's form?  How does it create this form?  Why does Shepard not question this form?  Why would it choose to take this form, even if it could?
• The Final Choice: These choices seem to have very little consequence  As I have been able to determine, the closest alien home world to earth (Tuchanka) is still roughly 11.5 thousand light-years away.  With no mass relays, this means it will take an FTL ship traveling 50 light years a day (the highest stated speed of any ME FTL speed i could find) roughly 8 months of non-stop travel (impossible in the mass effect universe) to get from one world to the other.  Due to the (former) existence of mass relays, no ships outside of the Quarian flotilla are equipped to make this type of journey  The fact that all mass relays get destroyed no matter what you do makes anything you choose meaningless, as the greatest effect the option you choose is an aspect of any option you could choose.
•  The Final Cut-scene:  I don't need to say much.  At this point, you know the uniformityis bad.  You know Joker leaving the battle is bad.  You know the lack of resolution is bad.  All I really have to say about this is how you could fix it.

And now, ways to fix what was wrong.

• Glowing Space Elevator #1

• Add a line or two of dialog further explaining what it is/why its there.  Yes, you say the Reapers are using it to take supplies up to the Citadel, but why?
• Explain why it took you to the protein vat area.  At least a line between Anderson and Shepard speculating would be better than nothing.

• Space Child:

• [Do not make him the child.  Instead, have him be non-humanoid interface like Vigil was, or possible in the image of whatever race the keepers were bred from.  Really, pretty much any random form is better than that child.  If for some reason you feel the form of that child to be necessary, EXPLAIN HOW IT CAN POSSIBLE LOOK LIKE THAT CHILD, or at least have Shepard acknowledge that itlooks like that child.
• Have is motivation be better.  Wanting to destroy us to save us works, the game references the chaotic nature of life opposed to the order of machines.   Have it be that war consumes all organics eventually, be it with machines or others organics.  Make it so the Reapers were created to ensure there will be a next cycle, to ensure life will always exist.  This works well with the analog of organics being related to chaos and the history of galactic wars ever increasing in scale.  Also, as many have stated, that all cybernetic life will seek to destroy organic life is disproven by both the Geth and EDI, so this will give you greater internal consistency
• Have an actual conversation.  Let Shepard ask him questions.  Let Shepard argue with him.  Let there be a meaningful dialog.  Hell, you could even make one ending be Shepard bleeds out by taking too much time arguing/asking questions.  There should be a greater degree of nteraction between the Catalyst and Shepard, no matter what else you do... unless you get rid of the Catalyst character altogether...

• The Final Choice:
  
  

• All Mass Relays do not blow up with every choice.  Having an option to destroy the mass relays would be good.  It shows a commitment to once and for all ending any influence of the Reapers over civilization, but to force it with every choice is bad.  Assuming you keep the same three general choices, making this a part of destroying the Reapers would be great.
• The three choices could each have degree aspects chosen via dialogue wheel after you select your broader choice.  Basically, for example, if you were to select destroy the Reapers, upon reaching your decision you are presented with six options (each option includes the preceding, as each increases the magnitude of what you are trying to do):  Just destroy Reapers (would leave artifacts that cause indoctrination, could lead to construction of new Reapers), Destroy low-level direct reaper tech (would downgrade the Geth, would destroy most artifacts that cause indoctrination, low odds of new Reapers), Destroy low-level indirect Reaper tech (would kill Geth, would destroy VIs, would destroy simple technology involving mass effect fields, would destroy most artifacts that cause indoctrination, low odds of new Reapers), Destroy high level Reaper tech (the preceding, but all artifacts that cause indoctrination are destroyed, but Cerberus indoctrination technology remains, very low
  odds of new Reapers), destroy high-level indirect Reaper tech (the preceding, plus kill all Als, kill EDI, destroy all technology involving mass effect fields save the mass relays, destroy Cerberus
  indoctrination, very low odds of new Reapers), Destroy all Reaper tech and tech influenced by Reapers (the preceding, plus destroys all modern technology, destroys mass relays [safely], almost impossible odds of new reapers)
• In lieu of the three choices, have a debate with the Catalyst to convince him to stop.  The arguments you could make in this debate should be based directly on the choices you made in previous games and throughout this game.  Certain choices lend to more receptive arguments, while other choices lead to less receptive arguments or even harmful arguments to your case.  Most paths should lead to at least a moderate ending (if argued well enough), but some should lead to bad endings inherently  It should not be possible for any random play-through (or a non-imported play-through) to get the best possible ending, whatever that may be (probably the Reapers sharing technology and helping rebuild the galaxy after removing all forms of indoctrination from everyone or something and Shepard being alive and healthy [this ending would be next to impossible to achieve]).

• The Final Cut-scene:

• The obvious stuff. Make it not uniform.  Joker doesn't leave Earth for no goodreason.  Have ANY resolution.
• Show the impact of our choices.  No matter what else you do, do this. Add scenes that show how the galaxy plays out based on the choicesyou made.  Show the Geth helping the Quarians rebuild Rannoch. Show Wrex with two of his children, Shepard and Mordin (or Padok). Show what squad-mates are doing with their lives.  End Shepard's saga with a scene of the Council, containing a few newcouncilors from new species perhaps, at a ceremony to honour Commander Shepard as he actually was, based on how people played him, making each ending speech unique, if most would still hold certain key elements.
• Make it long.  VERY long.  Fifteen minutes at least.  That is what I want to end this story, a long cut-scene showing every single life you personally changed based on the choices you made in every game.  If that is impossible, then include as many scenes as is physically possible to include as DLC.  Have one massive piece of DLC that contains dozens of variable pieces allowing a few hundred possible endings. 
  Give the Mass Effect Trilogy the ending it deserved.
  
  Now, for a moment, I would like to address two issues I had with the game other than the end.  The first is minor, but the second nearly ruined my experience in and of itself.
  
• One should be able to raise their effective war readiness without playing multiplayer. This would be as simple as adding certain percentage values to the N7 missions inside the game.  This makes sense, as the N7 missions really should increase the stability of a region, based on what you do in them.
• I could not import my original Shepard's face.  The moment that message came up, my heart sank.  I tried importing dozens of times before i realized it would never work.  This shattered my experience irrevocable, and, even if the ending had been grand, would have left a gaping hole in my feelings about the game.  If the graphics were somehow too good to support imported faces from mass effect 1, then the graphics should have been worse.  They were definitely in my uncanny valley anyway, so not only did these disturbing faces add nothing to my experience,but my face was not mine.  For a game like mass effect, that is inexcusable.

Now, one final note.  If you were limited by disc space and that is why your ending was as it was, know this:  I would have gladly paid an extra $10 if that meant a third disc that was nothing but endings.  In fact, that is what I hoped for. 


Thank-you for reading this.

Modifié par Omnicrat, 28 mars 2012 - 08:46 .