7052 réponses à ce sujet

[superfuzznpd]

Tietj wrote...

I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but the ending leaves me with the distinct impression that the writers had grown tired of Shepard and wanted to give him as undignified and futile an end as possible. Even the ending where he lives--unattainable in single player, despite what we were promised--is worthless. In fact, even those of us who wanted him to die in the end, myself not among them, were disappointed because unlike Mordin, who actually died for something tangible, Shepard's death was due solely to plot contrivance. A giant machine was introduced at the end, and oh, by the way, to use it you have to die. Surprise! But it's ok because my love interest can't possibly know what happened, and honestly doesn't even look like he cares all that much.

Of course, I wanted Shepard to live. And it would be nice if that were available to those of us who can't play multiplayer (my connection doesn't support it).

I agree, and if he/she was going to die, make it count for something, like Mordin. His death was worthwhile, because he did it righting a wrong and saving the Krogan's future. (Pointlessly though due to the ending). Dying just so the entire galaxy can be destroyed by 1000s of mass relay super novas going off and blowing everyone and everything we came to care about over 3 games to bits anyway, just sucks!! And doing it for some unknown and randomly inserted "god kid", for a really unknown and randomly inserted reason that doesn't make sense with the rest of the Mass Effect story, history and science, makes it both sucky and confusing! When people have to go out on a very long limb and invent elaborate doctrination theories just to make themselves feel better about having some type of closure from the out of character and confusing ending, the ending didn't work! Try some continuity of the plot and story line.

Bioware is full of very talented folks that have done a lot of great things in a lot of projects. ME3's ending however was NOT one of those moments.

[alan614]

Not sure if this is the right place but what the heck.

Remember that even if you would like to call this ART, this is a VIDEO GAME first and foremost. All GAMES carry an inherent CHALLENGE and REWARD dynamic. The challenge is to finish the game, after which the a reward is given. It would seem at the very end, you forgot about this Bioware. The ending you made was for a movie, not a video game.

1. At the very least, provide REWARDING endings in higher difficulty levels. Your big question mark ending might work in a movie because all you do is sit through it and frankly doesn't cost as much to consume, that's the medium where you can leave people thinking and hanging in the end. In video games, we put in a significant amount of time and EFFORT, the very reason there was a significant backlash, especially to those who played since ME 1, was that the ending gave us nothing that is enjoyable or of great value. In the end, we feel, we have accomplished nothing but screw up the galaxy.

2. Don't be afraid to bump up the difficulty. Actually I noticed this trend since the Dragon Age patch. "Normal" difficulty in your games now are actually "Easy" by the standard of 5 or 8 years ago. I mowed through the game on hardcore difficulty as a biotic. There was never even a time that I had to worry about the positioning of my squadmates. I'm replaying on insanity now so I'll see, but it's besides the point as your "Normal" difficulty needs to be bumped up a notch. Don't treat us like babies whose hand needs to be held throughout the game, your game has a mature rating, so a certain level of intelligence and skill is already implied.

........

You made a commercial product, you didn't just put this up on the internet and allowed us to play for free, so you can't always hide behind artistic license and expect us to be happy with it. You can fix the game or rightfully expect somewhat lesser pre-orders on your next title. I would expect Dragon Age III would have taken a hit from the fans who were disappointed by Dragon Age 2. You see, some people judge whether to spend cash on your next game based on the last impression you made on them.

[Kallind]

Before I criticize or make my opinion known of what could be (and should be, I think) altered going forward, I really think I should praise what was done right in ME3 - because I think 99% of it was extremely well done, and I think it's a shame that an ending that felt disjointed and rushed soured a lot of people on what otherwise was a fantastic game and really limits its replayability.  Obviously, the ending is my criticism - not because it wasn't a "happy ending", but more on that later.

I thought the combat was fantastic, and atmospheric.  They really felt like active battle scenes.  I thought the characters were nicely developed,, and the story and sequence of events that played out was terrif - making peace between the races, betrayals by the likes of Udina, Cereberus, etc.  Weapon customization was nicely done.  The range of emotions played out nicely throughout the game - humor, romance, teasing, loss, sacrifice.  I really like the multiplayer and would like to see it expanded on with maps, objectives, and hopefully enemies.  Some people are saying there wasn't enough of the ME2 crew, but I thought they were revisited nicely and enough.

I really, really didn't like the ending.  I think the best way to diagnose the problems with it is to compare it to curing the genophage.  When you cure the genophage, tons of past decisions come into play, and the outcome depends on a permutation of things like saving or killing Wrex, whether Mordin is alive, saving or killing Maelon, what you did with the genophage data, what decisions you make on Tuchanka itself, and what happens to Eve depends on your choices too as to the aftermath.  Whichever result you choose both depends on your past actions and is quite different from the other.  Note there's no real "happy ending" here either in that no matter what the outcome is, there's some sense of loss (ie. Mordin is dead or the genophage is not cured.  Wrex will find out it's not cured but Wreav won't).  But there's a depth to the conclusion of the genophage saga that has coherence with the buildup to it.  Likewise, peace between the quarians and geth depends on past actions, and even the "best" ending isn't really "happy" - Legion dies.  But there's a depth to his death and the outcome too.

I really thought the final fight for Earth would take this model of relying on past decisions and the outcomes depending on other events and take it to a factor of 10 (in fact, the dev team primed people for this), but it went completely the other way.  A more minor criticism of the endgame was that I expected there would be more consequence of who you befriend and what you accomplish to the final fight for Earth than just cutscenes of which fleets report in before you go - but the actual ending is the much bigger thing.

With the ending, there was just no coherence to it.  The outcome doesn't depend on any particular actions in the past that you've taken, didn't refer to them at all, and the endings you can choose are virtually all the same.  There's no coherence to the ending because there's no buildup to it - things completely new to the trilogy are explained in 5 minutes and Shepard just accepts them and picks A, B or C - which results in 99% the same ending.  The option of rejecting the choices offered by the Catalyst is never even an option available, and I think it should have been.  Even if Shepard lives, there's no sense of significance to that, because you just see him breathe for a second - you never see the significance of him being alive.  And no matter what you do, the relays blow up and the Normandy is on some distant planet.  The races you've made peace with are irrelevant because most of them will never see each other again.  You never see anything that happens to any of your crew after, or the Earth you spent 3 games saving, or the significance of the peace made with races that you've worked on.  Moreover, even if you went to the trouble of making peace between quarians and geth through multiple games, in a few minutes at the end of the game, you accept the premise that synthetics and organics will always kill one another if you don't synthesize them.  Finally, I think the available outcomes should be influenced more by specific past events and decisions, rather than simply your overall Readiness.

As to what should be done with the endings going forward, I don't think just altering the existing endings is something that should happen and I don't think it needs to, but I don't see anything wrong with adding some more in a game centered around allowing several outcomes and variations.  I think they could depend on both Readiness score AND be dependent on specific past choices like whether the genophage was cured, whether quariand and geth were at peace, whether you saved the Council, etc.  Whether they include a "happy" ending is really immaterial, as most of us went into ME3 with some expectation that Shepard may die anyway, but the ending needs some sense of significance and explanation to what you've done and choices you've made.  A whole bunch of your friends are dead in any case, so there's not exactly a "happy ending" available anyway, but there should be some conclusive and satisfying endings that vary from one another (and, ideally, make me want to replay the game making different decisions to experience them like ME2 did.)

[RyanPun1991]

Endings: More elaboration, more explanation, more options
Journal
More in depth side quests, involving not only scanning
Face Import
Liara shadow broker romance import
Citadel bugs
Readiness (Does it have to go down that quickly? jeez lol)
More Jack
Interact rather than eavesdropping to obtain side quests

[Hogge87]

 My complaints are probably quite hard to resolve, but here goes:

Your war assets don't matter! Something I missed in the first game was that the side quests didn't really give me any important rewards. No special armours or weapons, just credits and XP. I was overjoyed when I started to play ME3 and realised that every single sidequest added to my war assets. I decided to do every single sidequest, but then I reached the ending and suddenly it didn't matter. The only difference it made was that if my war assets exceeded a certain level, Shephard would survive. Which doesen't even make sense in any way.

So what I want is for the War Assets to have a bigger influence on the story. Like if you have really low war assets, Normandy gets shot down, killing all on board before you even reach the ground. Also, perhaps there should be a timer for how much time you have before the alliance fleet is unable to protect the crucible.
If you have a medium ammount, you get a more generous time limit and the Normandy doesen't get shot down.
If you have a high ammount, there is no time limit.
If you have a REALLY high ammount, the fleet can hold off the reapers indefinitely and send spare fighters, giving you close air support and preventing James from getting shot down.



Also, I'd like to see a general change of the ending. The Starchild should disappear, or better yet: you embrace the indoctrination theory and make the current ending a dream. Shepherd should wake up in London and walk in to the beam or perhaps sneak aboard Harbinger himself, destroying Harbinger from the inside (perhaps having a conversation with Harbinger, sort of like the talk with HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey). I rather see the crucible being some sort of super powerful ECM-device. A device which blinds electronic sensors like thermal vision, radar and listening devices, thus rendering the reapers blind and deaf, while organics at least are able to use visual targeting.

[Versidious]

Ich. I feel myself constantly drawn back to BSN at the moment, as I constantly think of new things, or new ways to communicated things. I want to talk about things that ME3 did right AND what it did wrong.
So....

RIGHT
Harbinger kicking our posteriors like the godlike robot spaceship it is.

WRONG
This being the first and only interaction with Harbinger in the game. He spends all of ME2 harassing Shepard, yet ignores him when he's within his grasp? I'd like to think that Harbinger has been trying to indoctrinate Shepard through his dreams, but this would need to be revealed at the end for it to really work as a dramatic feature. I'd rather have Harbinger pop up having laid a trap for Shepard (OR PERHAPS THAT IS WHAT THE CATALYST WAS ALL ALONG!?!?!?!), or at least monologue at you, you know, about how pathetic and doomed you are, at some point.

RIGHT
Everything done with the powers and weapon customisation. Finally finding the balance between simple and flexible. Would have been nice to have some more varied visuals with the mods, though.

WRONG
The Revenant seemed to have been nerfed somewhat.... Though maybe this was just my imagination!

RIGHT
Background banter/conversations. Constant wittiness and angst present, really helped with the atmosphere. Some of the stories were genuinely heart wrenching, and the conversations between shipmates felt natural and was highly amusing.

WRONG
Reducing the conversation wheel's presence. It made you feel less invested in your character - There were too many conversations where you had no control over the direction of your conversation, or how you reacted to what people were saying, which in turn made you feel less like you had the ability to affect your character's actions; This is pretty much the opposite of what you want out of a Bioware game!

RIGHT
Reunions, tying things up neatly, ensuring that even ME1's scavenger hunting was rewarded! I was especially happy to learn that Conrad Verner was actually a genius scientist, and his apology for wrongly accusing me of sticking a gun in his face in ME2 was inspired. Every reunion ended as it should have!

WRONG
Love interests, at least the ones I've played through, kind of ignore you for a long stretch of the game. In many cases, you've already consummated your relationship, and it's only been a few months since you last saw them - in the case of Liara, you've even already had the opportunity via LotS to reaffirm your commitment to her, and she even remarks in that that she considers herself to be in a relationship with Shepard. Yet, during ME3, she acts almost exactly the same as if you'd never romanced at all, and the conversation to 'lock in' with her is the same. Overlord's outcome has an effect on ME3, so why doesn't LotS?

RIGHT
The missions are beautiful and fun, with a strong sense of urgency. Every plot twist and loop is flawlessly written. In particular, the liberation of the Citadel, Tuchanka, Mars and Rannoch look, feel and are epic, as if you are part of history.

WRONG
It is a shame that the other main missions are so linear, and over so quickly (Though perhaps Rannoch also suffers from being too quick). In ME1 and ME2, there was an exploration element that is lacking here. And the plot overall is perhaps too linear. I appreciate that that is not going to be changed, but you really don't feel like you're affecting the outcome of anything, just staggering along desperately. Which is perhaps deliberate, but still, you're spending the previous two games only reacting to the actions of the antagonists, but you still feel like your choices are the ones driving everything, a feeling which is definitely lacking from ME3.

RIGHT
How the ending was directed and made.

WRONG
Everything else about the endings, the logic, the outcomes... Just, no!


I guess I could say that, well, Mass Effect 3 is like we're making love. You've learned some great new sex moves, and want to try them out, and by and large they're wonderful, and make for an enjoyable love-making session, but you've left out a lot of our old favourite sex moves and WAIT WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR FINGER, NO! THAT IS NOT COOL, YOU'VE KILLED THE MOOD! I FEEL VIOLATED AND LET DOWN!

This metaphor actually really works on two levels, because, just like sex, you should absolutely never introduce dead children.

[LT RADCZEK]

I just don't really like how all of your choices in ME1 & 2 didn't really change much in ME3. Like if you killed the council in ME1, in ME2 the council is composed of all humans, but then in ME3 the council becomes the same as it was in ME1, just with different individuals. Basically, if someone who is supposed to be in a certain scene in ME3, but they were killed in either ME1 or 2, then they simply get replaced with a cookie-cutter copy of that person. I would have liked to have seen all our choices in all three games come to a head in the endgame and really make a difference. Like if the Rachni are alive, then they fly in to save a bunch of people, (maybe even former squadmates) who are under attack. But if the Rachni are dead then those people die. Stuff like that would really make me appreciate all those choices I made from all three games.

I really would have liked to have seen more of Harbinger, either as a boss fight, or a conversation. It felt kind of anticlimactic that he shows up, shoots a bunch of people, then flies away without saying a word. He was obsessed with Shepard in ME2, and is shown to be a leader among the Reapers, but he isn't even mentioned until the very end.

I gotta say though, I really enjoy the gameplay of ME3, but I felt it was too easy when importing a file from ME2. Maybe some tweaks could be made to Insanity, or perhaps a whole new difficulty setting after Insanity could be made. It just felt too easy starting at level 30, but I saw my roommate struggle through the early game when starting from level 1, and he was only on normal. And also, I REALLY wish there was an easier way to obtain specific items in Multiplayer without having to wait until you randomly unlock it. I understand that the current system makes it more addicting and makes you want to play more, but it can be extremely frustrating when you just want one thing and it takes forever to get it.

[Bob the Elcor]

Truthfully, the game doesn't need "changes", it needs a complete overhaul, and i've got to say it's very sad that it does.

[Baldrick67]

The rachni.

It was stated before the game launched how they would play a big role and after the encounter with the asari helper on Illium in ME2 it seemed if you saved the queen there would be something special.

What happened? One lousy mission and all you get is 100 points. No rachni fleet or soldiers to join the end battle was a cop out.

[JasonShepard]

The whole galaxy at war/galactic readiness business? If we could have one - just ONE - way of upping that without having to connect to the internet/play iOS apps. I don't care if it's a single player version of the multiplayer, or a hacking mini-game. Just let us get 100% readiness on our own terms please.

(By single-player version of multiplayer, I'm meaning something like playing Halo firefight on solo. In short, tackling the missions offered in multiplayer, but with-out a team. It's just your Spec-Ops Character versus the Cerberus/Reaper hordes. Seriously, who wouldn't play that?)

[AllegedVixEo]

I want to start by saying I know it’s no small feat to create the legacy that you guys have given us, and would like to take a moment to thank you for hundreds of hours of sheer happiness I have experienced as a direct result of the hard work and creativity at Bioware.

I love ME3.  I love the entire series.  When I finished this game I was blown away, speechless and emotional.  I was moved by the ending, a little saddened even, but appreciated the big dramatic finish of the finale.    

That said, I think there are a several ways the game could extend past the current ending to keep the story aligned for future content/initiatives, and still provide the closure we have been aching for. 

•      Paul Tassi’s Indoctrination Theory: Unbridled brilliance! Playing through a second time, I am seeing more and more things that make me think “Oh, oh, this could be a sign of Shepard’s indoctrination!”  I say, go there-Take it to that level.  It has possibilities written all over it.  But I have a sneaking suspicion you may already have known that…
•      Indoctrination or not, the Mass Effect community clearly needs something that answers those daunting questions about what exactly happened to the Normandy/crew.  You know the ones; I don’t think I need to re-post them.
•      Please do not reinvent the wheel!  Some people have been calling for a complete re-write of the current Citadel ending with new options for the Crucible, requesting modifications that would make it so many critical themes underlying the entire game are rendered irrelevant.  This would cheapen previous play-through(s), my experience in the ME universe, and leave many die-hard fans feeling uneasy.  Stick to your guns and own it!  Prove to the haters that this ending was never a mistake, it’s a segue into something else, some fantastic and grandiose epilogue that represents a marriage of artistic ingenuity and the passion fans have come to feel for Mass Effect.  After all, uniting opposition against all odds for the greater good is exactly what Shepard would do.
•      If Shepard wakes up in London at the end, and the last 20 minutes of the game truly is a Hail Mary attempt by the Reapers to indoctrinate our willful Commander, then the Reapers are still alive and kicking.  I want the glorious, guns blazing battle.  I want Harbinger’s head (er...mandible?), and I am biting at the bit for a second chance to send those bastards to extinction! 
•      Naturally, the altruistic side of my personality longs for the option of a more positive outcome to piggy back on the perfect “Shepard breathes” ending.  It’s nice to know Shep’s not dead and all, but after investing so much time to get my "perfect” play through over the course of 3 games, played multiple times, I am not ashamed to admit I carry a heavy emotional investment in my characters.  I would like to be given the option of a single ending that presents a “conclusive win”.  Get well soon, Shep!
•      This last one is a personal appeal.  I don’t expect Shepard to ride off into a rainbow sunset; bareback on a unicorn with her LI (please don’t do that). However, after 3 games worth of dutiful, unyielding romance and loyalty to a single character throughout, AND surviving the Reaper attack on Earth via perfect ending, can you send Kaiden back to me please?  Some of us are suckers for a good love story.   

Over all, I have to say kudos to Bioware for another AMAZING Mass Effect triumph, and thanks for the opportunity to provide fan feedback.  Also, thank you for that cut scene on Tuchanka; the one with Kalros, for the win!  I could watch that cinematography again and again.  I can’t wait to see what comes next.

Modifié par AllegedVixEo, 30 mars 2012 - 02:15 .

[istle]

This is going to be a much smaller version of one of my previous posts in this thread. Might even make my voice clearer than before. I played on PC with keyboard and mouse which I think is the way the games should always be played.

Why I thought ME3 could very well be my GotY.
• ME2 had improved and almost perfected the series in every way possible.
• I was very excited to meet up with my favorite characters. Most of them from ME2.
• I was on mediablackout, but what I saw looked even sexier than ME2, visually.
• Seeing the consequences of my choices and if they mattered.
• Hearing that Clint Mansell was going to contribute to the soundtrack.
• Seeing Jack's re-design in the Collector's Edition-trailer.

Design choices I absolutely loved in ME3.
• The combat felt about the same as ME2 only more. Rolling felt iffy in the beginning but grew to love it. I could now choose which weapon-type I wanted for which mission as it wasn't restricted to ones class anymore.
• Talent trees are definitely improved from previous games. More variety.
• Priority Missions were mostly flawless.
• Grissom Academy was definitely the best "SideMission" if only because of some badass biotic.
• Meeting every character from previous games. Especially Jack and her new design!
• The music is the best of the series. Especially ones from Clint Mansell.
• The banter from the Crew on the Normandy between almost every other mission was awesome.
• Anderson really made an impact this time around. Only made his character better for it.
• SR-2 felt like it had more "color" to it with the wires and boxes and stuff everywhere.
• The Citadel has never been better.

Though there were considerable and unexpected disappointments in ME3...
• The ending felt... hollow. Right before you "beam" up to the Citadel it just stops making sense.
• The Journal was downgraded for some weird reason? Could never know the progress I'd made in a SideQuest. A very odd design choice.
• Engineering Donnelly and Daniels said almost nothing funny this time around
• Everyone from ME2 got seriously sidelined except for Mordin and Legion. What. The. ****?
• The Allers reporter. I knew I recognized her from somewhere but I couldn't figure it out as I played... after I beat the ending I read that it was someone from ign... An ign-cameo in ME3? It felt utterly ridiculous. I guess Allers is going to have to cry in a corner because she is never going onboard the Normandy a second time.
• But the most disappointing aspect of ME3 was the almost complete lack of Jack. The most unique character in any game. People have been comparing her to the world famous Lisbeth Salander, and I can certainly see why. And I am pretty much convinced she was supposed to be a Squadmember early in development. But got axed in favor of Tali. An admiral. But I guess it makes sense. She couldn't possibly have more important things to attend to now that she is an admiral. No, what a ridiculous idea.

Having Jack as Squadmember would have given considerably more variety to the Normandy Crew.

Besides the ending. All I pretty much want from a DLC is making Jack a Squadmember with the same treatment Javik got. I can even see an Expansion Pack happening that could solve many of the complaints, maybe even a Remastered version of this trilogy.

This post got longer than I expected. But in any case, as it stands. A good game with a spectacular sidelined character (Jack) and with an incomplete ending (a firm believer of the Indoctrination Theory). If you manage to solve both problems that matter most to me (the former more than the latter). Then I could without doubt say you have made a new masterpiece with a crazy amount of replay value.

p.s. I hope you read through this, BioWare.

Modifié par istle, 30 mars 2012 - 02:12 .

[kleindropper]

STAG IRONHIDE wrote...

superfuzznpd wrote...

The fellow in the video link below does an outstanding and entertaining job of lining out what Bioware did right throughout the series, why the ending of ME3 fails at continuing the previously outstanding story telling, and the simple thing the ending needs to fix it.

Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage

I also posted a lengthy rant about where the plot starts to fall apart and why, but the video does it in far more entertaining fashion.

I'm going to read your post, it's going to take a while though because it's like the Great Wall of China.

I made a poll about whether you suppor them making a DLC/If you Enjoyed or didn't enjoy the ending (spoiler, over 90% didn't enjoy).

http://social.biowar...35/polls/30907/


And what is up with this...





Not cool.

I just re-ran the Zaeed Loyalty mission on Zorya and notice a similar view in the sky (a large celestial body and a small on,  sorry no screenshot) - and Zorya is a jungle planet, so I wonder if Zorya is the Normandy crash planet?

[christophershawmyjaffacake]

I have already posted a comment.

But please any body agreeing with my current post please reiterate it as to make the issue something that could be considered.

As one of the many uk fans that lost out on the N7 Warfare pack because of GAME UK in my personal opinion,

it would be awesome if bioware made the N7 warfare pack available for purchase on the xbox live market place

would really be appreciated

[RyuGuitarFreak]

1 - Could be more polished. Lots of bugs, even on cutscenes.
2 - Import bug. Unforgivable.
3 - Auto dialog. TOO MUCH. TOO EFFING, MUCH.
4 - Neutral option. They said that in most dialog options there would be 3 or more. LIE. If you're counting 3 with the streamlined investigation/question, I see what you did there Bioware,
5 - Handling Mass Effect 2 characters. None of them perma-squadmates, not even on Lair of the Shadow Broker style 1 mission with you. No, they always have awesome excuses not to be there. And no, Garrus and Tali don't count, they're Mass Effect 1 characters. Some of them were also poorly handed, like Jacob (no drinking scene on Purgatory, promising on Rio, cheating femshep...really Bioware?) and Grunt (besides the mission you talk to him on Earth, receive some e-mails and that's it).
6 - Poorly handled war assets. I think it's self explanatory at this point.
7 - No suicide mission mechanics. I also thought that the way people enjoyed it so much you were gonna deliver more of that in ME3. Unfortunately, I was very wrong and your choices on the game barely have an impact (also on emotional level) on the final mission. They way they're handled on the game itself is very cool. You just dropped the ball on the ending...in this level too.
8 - Integration with multiplayer. Just...too much. Make galactic readiness start at 75% or something. Or make it go up as War Assets are taken too.
9 - The journal. What were you possibly thinking? Why didn't you do it right? Seriously, I don't understand.

[Ulmo11]

One more issue about the endings, it needs an information dialogue tree to remind you what your choices are even if you don't change them.

When I beat the game it was stupid late and my brain was pretty fried from trying to fight past all the brutes and banshees at the missile launchers for hours. So after hearing the god child's quick overview of the three choices the impact of them didn't sink in, so I just chose according to colors and took the "paragon" choice. Such an important decision at least deserves the ability to relisten to his descriptions of what you were choosing.

[michaelborel]

I was about to post this in another thread, but it got locked while I was typing it. I'll put it here since I really want to get it off my chest. Sorry if I'm repeating what others have said, I haven't read the entire thread.

I just want to see an explanation to the plot holes in the given ending. Relays blowing up causes nova-like damage, and will destroy every system with a relay in it. This was a major point of the Arrival DLC, and is completely ignored in ME3. We could still have Bioware's bittersweet, ambiguous ending if they had:
a. Made the relays burn out/shut down/go dark after releasing the colored burst of energy. No explosion, and the Sol system (as well as all others) survive, and still leaves the galaxy in a state of change (relays don't work anymore).
b. Brief explanation on why the reapers moved the citadel to earth. In ME1, vigil says the reapers can shut down all the relays by using the citadel. At least, explain this away by having star child the space ghost explain that the reapers need the keepers to do this, and the prothean meddling prevented this from happening. That maybe a cop out answer, but hey, at least it addresses it.
c. Joker bravely turning tail and running away, as well as the crew members who followed me in Hammer and as well as on the final push to the conduit magically teleporting back to the Normandy, just so you can have them land on the Planet of Lost Island and show that life will survive. We could have just had a cutscene showing the Normandy crashing on earth (heck, near Edmonton, CA, just for giggles) and if my EMS is high enough, get to see Joker exit the Normandy. Then, cut back to London, and depending on my EMS score, start seeing cut scenes of my crew, dusting themselves off and watching the reapers leave/shut down. Then end it with the scene of shepard taking a breath if my EMS is high enough and I choose destroy.
Boiware's artistic vision for the ending is pretty much the same as it currently is, Joker isn't running away, and the exploding relays don't destroy everything no matter what I do.

Modifié par michaelborel, 30 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[DSGrant]

I hope you guys (Bioware) are still collecting feedback here. I realize a lot has happened in the relatively short amount of time that the game has been out, including the announcement by your cofounder that some additional work will be done toward the endings issue. That all said, it hardly seemed appropriate or responsible to complain about what I hated (the endings) without offering some equally constructive feedback on what I would have liked to see instead, and ultimately, what would do the game justice. So here I go.....

-----------------

The "Retake Earth" Battle in the Sol System


The combined fleets of nearly a dozen races in one giant armada show up to fight the Reapers around Earth in order to wrest control of the Citadel (Crucible) from them. There are a few dozen Reaper "Sovereign" class ships (not including all their fighters and smaller ships) against THOUSANDS of Alliance warships. The battle begins....

(Add longer and more frequent cut scenes of the space battle. Show us more of how the fleet is doing. For example, soon after the battle starts, the Turian dreadnoughts jump into the middle of the Reaper formation to bring their guns to bear quicker like they did in the battle near their homeworld. But the Reapers have some ships in reserve and though the Turians take down a few Reapers, those ships are lost to the Reaper back line.)

Shepard continues securing the foothold of the ground forces down on Earth, and destroys the Reaper AA artillery.

(We go back to the fleet battle, the fighter squadrons continue their frenzied swarming with Reaper fighters in and around the fleets. Show them doing some screening for the cruisers/dreadnoughts fighting the main Reaper ships getting into position. Focus on one of the fighter squadron commanders giving frantic orders.)

Shepard hooks up with the Resistance to plan the assault on the Reaper tether to the Citadel. As he's planning with Anderson, pan up to show us the lights of explosions from the fleet battle above them....and remind us that people are dying up there and we need to get to the Citadel.

(Then zoom in to Hacket ordering the Earth dreadnoughts in each fleet to "focus fire" on Reaper ships. The concentrated fire is overwhelming their massive kinetic barriers and allowing other ships, like the Normandy with assistance from cruisers, to take them down. Show a few Reapers destroyed in this manner.)

Shepard brings down the Reaper destroyer, and the ground forces charge the Reaper tether. Show us a massive ground battle - much more than what you had shown before.

(Harbinger breaks formation and begins descending toward Earth to stop the ground forces.)

Hacket warns Shepard and Anderson that Harbinger is coming for them, but they tell him they need more time as the ground battle intensifies.

(Hacket tells the fleet that Harbinger has to be brought down at all costs, but they can't get to it through the remaining Reaper ships. Hacket orders the fleets to punch a hole through the Reapers to give them the opportunity. The Quarian fleets, with the Salarians, and Asari push through the Reaper lines. They all concentrate fire on Harbinger as it enters Earth's atmosphere, resulting in a spectacular light show. The fleets take heavy losses from the other Reapers, but despite damaging it, they are unable to stop Harbinger. Then the Asari flagship, Destiny Ascension, emerges from the carnage. Damaged herself, they set a collision course with Harbinger and destroy it, thus returning the favor for being saved during the battle with Sovereign.)

Shepard, Anderson, and the remaining ground forces secure the Reaper tether. Shepard, Anderson, a dozen commando teams including a mercenary team led by Zaeed head up to the Citadel.

(Meanwhile, Hacket orders the Rachni and Geth fleets to secure the Citadel, and a viscious fight with the Reaper ships there ensues.)

The commando teams along with Shepard and Anderson meet unexpected resistance on the Citadel. The commando teams fight hard, but are getting overwhelmed. Zaeed holds off the opposition so that Anderson and Shepard make it to the central control platform, where they meet TIM. The dialogue with TIM culminates in a final fight against the indoctrinated Illusive Man, controlled by the Reapers.

(The fleets regroup and make a final push against the last remaining Reaper ships. The Volus, Hanar, and Elcor lead the final push, and Hacket offers some moving words about the difference they are now making.)

TIM is defeated and the armada destroys the last Reaper ship in orbit around Earth. Victory is at hand, but at a heavy cost.

(Show us who died and who lived. Anderson dies next to Shepard, who is badly wounded. Zaeed died holding off the Citadel-Reaper defenses. Jack died protecting her students. Samara died taking down a dozen Banshees. Our love interest survives. The remnants of the mighty Alliance armada, including some damage to Hacket's flagship. And so on.....)

(The Crucible docks with the Citadel, but nothing happens. The Reaper armada from the rest of the galaxy shows up at the Charon relay. The fleet regroups, but is in bad shape and cannot possibly defeat a few hundred Reaper ships, but they prepare to HOLD THE LINE anyway. Hacket gives a moving speech.)

As all seems lost, Shepard meets the Catalyst, who appears as the boy from his dreams in order to torture and taunt him. The Reapers are cruel indeed, and the ultimate expression of synthetic evolution. It's explained that they purge the galaxy every 50k years to maintain their dominance, but they can't just kill everything because they need to harvest organics to replenish their strength/forces. We're like a garden to them that they harvest every season. Shepard says "FU" and gets to choose to either:
1. Destroy the Reapers along with himself and the Citadel and the Mass Relays by using himself as a catalyst, which throws the galaxy back into the proverbial dark ages of space travel but ends the Reaper threat then and there.
2. Kill the Catalyst (not conventionally, but through the Crucible) which leaves the Reapers alive but disoriented, vulnerable, and easily destroyed, and the galaxy will continue fighting them, but will eventually beat them. Earth is destroyed as the Alliance fleet is forced to escape the Reaper reinforcements. Shepard makes the call, so that they fight another day.
3. Replace the Catalyst and take control of the Reapers himself, but Shepard has to choose one race to extinct before he can send them back to dark space where they will remain secluded and asleep while the rest of the galaxy evolves unmolested for another 50k years, and as a result, will be more than a match for the Reapers when they return - assuming the races can stay united and not destroy each other along the way.

(The epilogue varies greatly based on Shepard's choices. If he chose to sacrifice himself, there is a very emotionally moving funeral for him on Earth with his surviving crew members and prominent members of the remaining fleet, including all races represented there. If he chose to live, show the results of that, and the costs. Show the galaxy honoring him and his crew in a giant ceremony on the Citadel, regardless of which "shepard survives" ending is chosen.)

-----------------

Well there it is. That's my feedback for what I would have liked to see in the ending(s), for what it's worth. Thanks for listening, Bioware.

Modifié par DSGrant, 30 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[sylinmino]

Versidious wrote...

Ich. I feel myself constantly drawn back to BSN at the moment, as I constantly think of new things, or new ways to communicated things. I want to talk about things that ME3 did right AND what it did wrong.
So....

RIGHT
Harbinger kicking our posteriors like the godlike robot spaceship it is.

WRONG
This being the first and only interaction with Harbinger in the game. He spends all of ME2 harassing Shepard, yet ignores him when he's within his grasp? I'd like to think that Harbinger has been trying to indoctrinate Shepard through his dreams, but this would need to be revealed at the end for it to really work as a dramatic feature. I'd rather have Harbinger pop up having laid a trap for Shepard (OR PERHAPS THAT IS WHAT THE CATALYST WAS ALL ALONG!?!?!?!), or at least monologue at you, you know, about how pathetic and doomed you are, at some point.

RIGHT
Everything done with the powers and weapon customisation. Finally finding the balance between simple and flexible. Would have been nice to have some more varied visuals with the mods, though.

WRONG
The Revenant seemed to have been nerfed somewhat.... Though maybe this was just my imagination!

RIGHT
Background banter/conversations. Constant wittiness and angst present, really helped with the atmosphere. Some of the stories were genuinely heart wrenching, and the conversations between shipmates felt natural and was highly amusing.

WRONG
Reducing the conversation wheel's presence. It made you feel less invested in your character - There were too many conversations where you had no control over the direction of your conversation, or how you reacted to what people were saying, which in turn made you feel less like you had the ability to affect your character's actions; This is pretty much the opposite of what you want out of a Bioware game!

RIGHT
Reunions, tying things up neatly, ensuring that even ME1's scavenger hunting was rewarded! I was especially happy to learn that Conrad Verner was actually a genius scientist, and his apology for wrongly accusing me of sticking a gun in his face in ME2 was inspired. Every reunion ended as it should have!

WRONG
Love interests, at least the ones I've played through, kind of ignore you for a long stretch of the game. In many cases, you've already consummated your relationship, and it's only been a few months since you last saw them - in the case of Liara, you've even already had the opportunity via LotS to reaffirm your commitment to her, and she even remarks in that that she considers herself to be in a relationship with Shepard. Yet, during ME3, she acts almost exactly the same as if you'd never romanced at all, and the conversation to 'lock in' with her is the same. Overlord's outcome has an effect on ME3, so why doesn't LotS?

RIGHT
The missions are beautiful and fun, with a strong sense of urgency. Every plot twist and loop is flawlessly written. In particular, the liberation of the Citadel, Tuchanka, Mars and Rannoch look, feel and are epic, as if you are part of history.

WRONG
It is a shame that the other main missions are so linear, and over so quickly (Though perhaps Rannoch also suffers from being too quick). In ME1 and ME2, there was an exploration element that is lacking here. And the plot overall is perhaps too linear. I appreciate that that is not going to be changed, but you really don't feel like you're affecting the outcome of anything, just staggering along desperately. Which is perhaps deliberate, but still, you're spending the previous two games only reacting to the actions of the antagonists, but you still feel like your choices are the ones driving everything, a feeling which is definitely lacking from ME3.

RIGHT
How the ending was directed and made.

WRONG
Everything else about the endings, the logic, the outcomes... Just, no!


I guess I could say that, well, Mass Effect 3 is like we're making love. You've learned some great new sex moves, and want to try them out, and by and large they're wonderful, and make for an enjoyable love-making session, but you've left out a lot of our old favourite sex moves and WAIT WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR FINGER, NO! THAT IS NOT COOL, YOU'VE KILLED THE MOOD! I FEEL VIOLATED AND LET DOWN!

This metaphor actually really works on two levels, because, just like sex, you should absolutely never introduce dead children.

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite post on the citadel.
(I know that meme is overused by now, but comon! This guy lays it down spot on!)

[Deschi]

Something which has NOT to do with the ending... I missed a bit some more conversation options in ME3 compared to the former two parts. There were some but especiall ME1 had those "neutral" choices during conversations and the option to go deeper into certain topics. Made talking to ohter characters much more enjoyable imho. In ME3 i felt that most of the time i just have Paragon or Renegade options... which is also OK for amore fast paced game which plays in the middle of a galacti war but still I would liek to see BioWare doing more extensive dialogues again in their next games... of course just if it fits to the general mood in the game.

[magnutz06]

My suggested change is simple. Please show us more of the allies and assets in action.

A great portion of the Mass Effect trilogy is centered on uniting the galaxy against the Reaper threat. In ME3 you went as far as to give us a console to see all the assets and allies collected. Sadly even at 100% readiness with over 7000 points all we see is the quick flotilla cameo entering Sol head for earth. There were no shots of Arias gangs, no geth drop troopers, hanars, elcores, drell..sigh...I could go on and on.

I CAN understand artistic view prevented Shepard from having any choice of how to use said allies and assets. I CAN'T understand how an entire galaxy for backup ends up "offscreen canon". Please fix/ change/alter whatever you call it. Thanks for listening.

[Bob the Elcor]

With embarrassment, I was planning to write my own take on how the indoctrination theory could work here, but i became two and a half A4 pages long, so I won't do that. With major annoyance, but I will say that you need to fix the face import bug and the fact that sometimes someone talking and there is
no-one there.

Modifié par Bob the Elcor, 30 mars 2012 - 04:50 .

[Cobretti ftw]

Well i think there is somethings that could be done differently. I know that now its too late, but...

1- Things like the dream sequences with the little boy should be cutscenes, that would make the replay more enjoyable.

2- Please, MUCH LESS "zaeed style" dialogues, and more dialogue wheel. Specialy with the squadmebers. Our relationship with them is one of the most important features in the game.

3- More dialogues with squadmembers. Too much liara ( that is a great character, but there are other really good characters and they were kind of put aside). If all characters had as much dialogues avaiable as liara, it would be a nice improving.

4- About the final mission, i think some oportunities were wasted. It would be great to be able to select wich army, or special team would do an specific task. In that point, similar to the suicide mission in ME2, but much bigger. You would coordinate an entire unit, and not just ONE person that is suited for the task.

5- NOrmandy battles. I think it would be nice to see the normandy 100% focused in the space battle at least for a little time. Something that players could participate even if that participation is small. Maybe something like the paragon/renegade interrupts could be use/adapted to a cutscene like that. Nothing soo big or exagerated, could be while normandy battles her wau through earth to get the squads on the ground. Again, that must be an adequate dose, so it wont interfere with the "soul" of the game. Just a little, would be fine.

6- Sidemissions could be MUCH more interesting, Actually, they should be. =/
THat thing of overhearing conversation, and them get a "go fetch the artifact" was kinda disapointing.

7- It would be nice to have missions like the loyalty missions again. I understand that the characters are already loyal to you at that point, but it would be nice to have more connection with them. I dont have to make them loyal too you again, just an opportunity to get to know them even better.

[chuckwells62]

The talented guy who made that video was amusing & articulate, and he made his well-reasoned remarks without being harsh. It's one of the best dissertations that I've seen about the ME3 ending controversy and it really helped "clarify" much about how I personally FELT about the game.

I second the notion that a simple fix is readily available, and hope that whatever Bioware has in the offing, skews towards this eloquent solution. Good job, fella!

[demonuswolfus]

OK...first off let me say that I loved the game...ending ...not so much.  There are several things that could use a change up in the game other then just the ending though the ending needs massive work..


Point 1: Pinnacle Station...you had us play it, had us get a reward out of it, but none of this has carried over to ME3...yet you bring it back without allowing us to do anything with it. I liked the idea of having a nice quiet place to go...and plus thats like the spectre training facility...you should ahve had a mission take place there with Cerberus tryign to wipe out all the Spectres there. This could have made for a better recruitment of spectres for the war asset rather then the simple mission that was done on the Citadel.

Point 2: 2 ME1 decisions that did not make it through to ME3...when saving Terra Nova you chose to let Bhalik to get away to save the hostages...well those hostages form my understanding and playing offered no help once so ever in the end portion of the game. Also I chose Anderson for Council seat and in ME3 no explanation is given at all why Udina is suddenly on the Council....makes me feel like my choice was just over looked.

Point 3: Rachni...it was made to sound that the Rachni would be having a major role in ME3..if you saved them..and well obviously they didn't. That in itself was a major let down...rather then just ahvign the Rachni help on the crucible..how bout having them help in the war too..i'd have loved to see some rachni tangling with some reapers. Though choosing to kill them off should have just not brought them into the game at all for folks who imported ME1 saves.

Point 4: ME2 relationships were not addressed properly...You allowed relationships from ME1 with Liara, Ashley and Kaiden to carry over with some relavance and proper ensding..but no real good ending closer. From ME2 you allowed the same thing to occur with garrus and Tali...btu seemed to have screwed over folks who got together with Miranda, Jacob, Jack or an attempt with Samara. I'm not mentioning Thane because he was gonna die anyways..thats acceptable. Just it's not right you have Jacob dump shepard for another girl..have Miranda become a vid call relationship only and well never did a thing with Jack so not sure how that works out. as for samara that was appropriate as well.  At the very least fizx the issues with the relationships form ME2...make them worth something...it's almost like the company just wanted you to waste time with thsoe characters only to have the relationship mean nothing in ME3.

Point 5: There were several side quests in ME1 and 2 that to me could have carried over to ME3. Like saving the colony rather then the military outpost in ME2 form Batarians...yet that does nto carry over....

Point 6: Citadel locations...it seems you make the citadel less and less explorable..in ME1 the portion of the Citadel to explore was massive, in ME2 it shrunk and in ME3 it just stayed the same....how bout adding in all three areas  for folks and actually have some characters liek all of them from ME1 and 2 to reappear in ME3...especially Mouse. Other Planets that you visited form ME1 and 2..yes you brought abck Noveria..and some other form ME1 and 2...but limited locations...you should be able to go back and vist those places from the planets. Heck I enjoyed going abck and being able to visit planets from ME1 and 2 after you finished the quests. I'd have liked to have seen Ilos again letting Javik see the place for himself. I'd love to go and visit Eve and Wrex again to see how things are going.

Point 7: Team...you seemed focused on making the team strictly almost madfe up of folks form ME1...yet through out the idea or even consideration that folks may have liked having others from ME2 on the team as well. just simply throwing those characters into the agme with lackluster cameos and side missions where they are not with you at all int he squad actually felt like a slap in the face. The stage with the Ardat Yakshi Monastary..perfect example would ahev been to let folks have Samara join the squad replacing someone. If certain parameters were met, she then should have been able to join you on the ship til the final mission. Same goes for Wrex, Grunt, Jacob, Zaeed[satisfied with his small part], Jack, Miranda and even Kasumi. Legion should have had a small part on the squad too to help in side missions and so on.  Just syaing that folks who came onboard arund ME2 should get a chance to have those teammates they grew to love continue to be partof the squad. it really should ahve been that wayf orm the start.. Not syaing as permanent members on the crew but parttimers..up until their missions are completed. Zaeed and Kasumi being those two who could ahve stayed permanantly onboard...Samara staying on until the attack on Cerberus..Jacob staying on til the atatck on citadel, Miranda staying with you on Horizon but leaving and rejoining on the Cerberus attack..then leavign again. Legion upon after the dreadnaught assault being on the sqaud as a choice until hsi end, Grunt joining you after the Rachni mission and then laving once you've either finished with tuchanka or attacked the Cerberus base..I think you get the idea.

Point 8: Fix the face tranfer for folks importing character from ME1 and ME2...only one character crossed over properly for me and i've ahd to redo the face for my others. Please fix.

Point 9: Seriously...the catalyst is a ghost boy? If thats the case the kid has been haunting Shepard since the beginnign fo the game...explanation of that needed please

Point 10: Mass Relay destruction...according to ME2 DLC the Arrival...a Mass Relay being destroyed would wipe out a star system. If you were to follow through with this to make sense and keep canon...then the destruction of the mass relays would mean complete and utter extinction....this needs explaining too Please.

Point 11: This is the main focus I think everyone wants a big fix and or complete change...it's made headlines seriously...The ending of the game...you lead us to beleive we'd all get a unique ending based on our unique choices amde...but in the end everyone just got the same three options...same endings just small minor outcomes...that do not represent any of the choices made through all the game trilogy. That and the most annoying and confusing thing is why was Joker flying through space in a mass relay...and how does...[in one of my playthroughs] did Liara and Javik appear on the ship when they were stil on earth...that really needs explaining..and an ending representing the promised unique ending that we should get based on our choices form ME1,2 and througout 3.

Point 12: No Final Boss...um...in ME1, Saren was the final boss, in ME2 the Reaper Humanoid construct was the final boss...but in ME3...you got nothing...just 3 options.....please add a final boss....also the part with Jack Harper..or Harker...aka Illusive Man was kinda...well lacking....please add a fight.

Point 13: Dialogue glitches...folks your tlaking with or chime in are not present when the camera pans to them, but they are there. Please fix

Ok those are the 13 most top things that are bugging me about the game....i'd hope you can do some sort of change or rewrite coding or soemhting that can be downloaded to help with these changes....and before I forget...in ME2..the first 5 DLC packages were free....I do hope that that occurs again with the first batch of DLC for ME3 and hopefully those DLC's will have the inclusion of the changes and hopefully upgrades folks have been asking for. Guess i'm saying to avoid making folks more upset..don't charge for the first batch of DLC.

Hopefully this bit of input and opinion is helpful...i'm spekaing for myself but i'm sure there are others out there with the same questions and or issues.

As I said in the beginning..I love the game, but just can't help feel you removed a lot of the things form the frist two that made it feel more controlled by the player and just amde it a do this and this...kinda like a point A to Point B without the fun stuff in the middle. The main points i'd like you all to look over and discuss and decide on are 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 11 and 12. The others are minor but would be nice if somehitng could be explained or tweaked.

One more Note...if you decide to do somethign along the lines that capcom has done...rereleaseing a game with all the tweaks and all the changes in it...either cut a deal with owners of the games, especially those with collector editions to where they can ship their original games to you in exchange for the new one or be bale to trade in the game to pay for the new one for only half the price, or charge between 20 to 30 bucks for a new revamped game...and if everything is done DLC as I said before...just don't charge anyone for the first 5 or 6 DLC packs...making those the ones that include any changes or answers to questions or requests.

I only hope what i've said is taken into concideration, as i've been on this ride with this game form day one it came out [ME1 all the way to ME3]. It would be nice to see somehting i've offered to come up in your disscussions and possibly be used to help quell the annoyed and angry fans. As I sdaid I don't nor am I speaking for everyone, i am only speaking for myself and what I find needs fixing or being changed. Though i'm quite sure there are others who feel the same way about what i've pointed out on some of those points.

Oh and forgive me I keep adding as I remember...Multiplayer...needs to have some fortification options or defense building options....plus some more N7 missiosn would be nice.


Yet another note....

On the note of making our decisions form ME1 and ME2 matter, also those made in ME3 for the final mission..how botu also including all those war assets in the final battle...like actually having everyone who survives up that point showing up...I had 100% Galactic rediness and 7000+ militray and 5 to 6000+ military strength....and yet it still came out to the same as if i had 82% galactic rediness, 6000 military and 4000 military strength. I really find it hard to beleive that even with maxed out stats that you still get the same outcome of events on earth before getting into the citadel. There has to be..and it should ahve existed all along...a point that actually has you pusing abck reaper forces and haveign an outcome not seem even in battle...reapers can push you back but the galaxy fighitng back can't push them back? How botu decimating their numbers...if even by 3%...something fair..somehting to make it look like all the work you've done matters...thansk again.

Modifié par demonuswolfus, 30 mars 2012 - 08:31 .