7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Dewitt667]

I posted these on another thread but some of the ideas/issues may fit here better.

Post 1:

Lets do the time warp again: Mass Effect: The Remix

Bare with me. This started out as mental exercise at work brought appon by me going back to ME1.

Leave
ME3's  present ending with chooses A and B as is per an indoctornation
trap, but ending C slings Sheperd's mind back to the Relay jump at the
begining of ME1 and modify the story with ME3's Sheperd shaping the
final battle from the Eden Prime attack rather than playing catch-up and
running against a tornado.

I'm sugesting this for reasons:

A: You already have most of the work done in ME1 and 2.

B:
This would also allow new players to the Mass Effect franchise to be
able to play the story from the begin just under different game
machanices.

C: This will give time to find an ending that would make most of the fan base happy.


Speeking
of game machanices, my opinion is that Sheperd's machanices need to be
brought back in line with 1 and 2's. Say like drop the class specific
granades or make them mod'able, return his healing back like it was in 2
now slow it down to make combat more entense but to have to use your
medi-gel after each fight is a little much.

Now as to normal DLC for the normal ME3 playthrough would be more missions the effect the galaxy map like say: (make them feel like the battle at the end, from touch down up to the final charge)

Sheperd drops in on Palaven or a Turian research lab under heavy attack by reaper forces with Aralakh Company(80-225),
since all you see is only a squad there has to be more of them, and
Grunt replenishes his loses from the hardened suriving defenders.

Post 2:

It isn't a Joke.

A lot of the concept comes from the fact that
the only thing the concil get out of soverigns remains is the thanix
cannon and the only time you see it is when the reaper are using theirs
and in ME2. After the attack the Citadel in ME1 its space should have
been locked down.

Cerberus has more reaper tech than the council races and it has less resources.

There
are plot holes so big in the game that the only way to really have a
acceptable ending is to pull a trump card out of the left quadrent and
no the crucible is not it. As your choose when you first hear about it
is, "Sounds to good to be true."

The only way i can see an
ending the doesn't envolve the reapers continuing the cycle ,with what
has been presented at this point  is to start the prep work at the
begining with only three years,

That bring up another issue is
that the dialogue and the flow of time both in game and between games.
If they can build the crucible that quick then they could build a fleet
large enough to liberate earth and most of the council world with ease.

The
other thing is that Sheperd no matter how you play him would not let
cerberus have sole access to the debtis field beyond the omega-4 relay.
If anything Omega would be hosting a contingent of council forces for a
fee. Omega Rule #1.

You may not agree with these plot issues but they are issues non the same.

[thingamaBen]

I want a scene where you face off against Harbinger--who was propped up as the main protagonist in the second game--either with Shepard him/herself, or with the Normandy and the assembled fleet. I also want some visual input on why the Crucible only had certain options depending on my EMS--I get it, but my brain has to fill in the blanks in a very unsatisfying way. So I purpose this added scene:

After Shepard opens the Citadel arms and the Crucible comes in to dock, a fleet of Reapers lead by Harbinger make their charge to destroy the Crucible. Hackett orders the fleet to a defensive position to protect the Crucible, with the Normandy taking point. The resulting scene depends on how high your EMS is. (A) At it's lowest, the Alliance fleet--including the Normandy--is wiped out, and the Crucible is destroyed. The Reapers win and Shepard never gets a final decision. ( At the mid ranges of EMS, Normandy and the fleet sacrifice themselves to destroy Harbinger, but the Crucible takes some or zero amounts of damage. The higher the rating, the less damage the Crucible takes and the more options Shepard has available in the final room--from the singular choice of destroying the reapers to having all three options to choose from. © At the highest rating, the Normandy triumphantly destroys Harbinger; the fleet successfully holds Reaper forces back and the Crucible is unscathed. 

Adding the Normandy to this scene would also mean removing it from the original ending, but it's the only ship in the fleet that would bring the emotional cajones such a scene would require to deliver the player  a sense of loss or victory.

Modifié par thingamaBen, 01 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[cornman89]

I'm wary of suggesting actual changes to the game narrative. So I won't.

However, I wanted to express that I think the Catalyst's "Synthetics will always try to kill organics, no exceptions!" claim is totally crazy, and not consistent with anything that has ever happened in the Mass Effect trilogy. Probably heard this a million times by now, I realize, but if one more person saying it carves the message even slightly  deeper, then I'll have done my job.

Modifié par cornman89, 01 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[ElMuchu]

Regarding the endings, there is two things I wish:
- of course that the new DLC fixes the issues we all discuss about (plot holes, no possibility in having a happy end, no real impact of our choices...)
- I would like the possibility to reach the best endindings without multiplayer: I like sometimes playing an oldies (for instance suikoden on playstation 1) and I am sure that if I like the new endings I will replay several times ME serie now and even in some years. I am also pretty sure that EA ME3 server will be down when I will do that.

[Pappi]

Bring back Captain Kirrahe for Playstation Players.

Thane is canonically dead unless you import your save.

Basically, the salarian counciller dies unless you buy Mass Effect 2 and import. This severally limits story choice for playstation owners.

He is however, in the Playstation demo.

[Motherlander]

cornman89 wrote...

I'm wary of suggesting actual changes to the game narrative. So I won't.

However, I wanted to express that I think the Catalyst's "Synthetics will always try to kill organics, no exceptions!" claim is totally crazy, and not consistent with anything that has ever happened in the Mass Effect trilogy. Probably heard this a million times by now, I realize, but if one more person saying it carves the message even slightly  deeper, then I'll have done my job.

Yes it is crazy. However, I think the reasoning can make sense in the game if you change the perspective.

If you make out the Cataylst to be crazy, then the logic suddenly makes sense. Not from Sheprd's point of view of course, but fro the view of a crazy ancent machine.

If the Catalyst was made out to be some crazy killer robot like we were lead to believe the Reapers actually are, then this statement just sounds like the lunatic ramblings of crazy killer machine that has no perspective on what it is really doing.

However, the catalyst was not made out to be crazy. It was made out to be the source of all true wisdon. And in that sense, the logic does not make sense at all.

I think there are better reaons that could have been used that make more sense in contemporary life.

For example: The Reapers believe they are protecting the natural development of non-sentient and less advanced organic life. The logic is that when a civilisation gets too advanced, it may start to exploit other worlds and species to the extent that natural development and evolution is prevented in many worlds. So on that basis, the Reapers believe themselves to be preservationists who are protecting evolution.  So to do this they cull advanced civilisations every few thousand years. In effect they are reaping advanced civilisations to prevent the advanced civilisation reaping non-sentient and primitive species.

In this way, the cycle of destruction is the a killer robot's extreme, brutal and systematic method of enforcing their own version of Star Trek's Prime Directive.

I like the idea that one Reaper was created to solve a cepcific problem, like say destroy an aggressive advanced species that could devour life in the whole galaxy. An example I would give are say the Tyrannids from the Warhammer 40K Universe. Perhaps the reapers were built to destroy that threat and then just got out of control, believing wrongly in the infallibility of their power, morals and logic.

I like the idea that the Reapers are poweful weapons over which their creators lost control. That still covers the conflict between synthetics and organics, but presents it ina different light.

In the end we want to see the Reapers potrayed as evil, obsolete robots that are no longer relevant and deserve to be destroyed.

If you have them presented like that, then we imagine cotemporary issues like deforestation and nuclear weapons. And that is a much more interesting artistic vision to me than the one that Bioware presented with us.

Modifié par Motherlander, 01 avril 2012 - 10:00 .

[Motherlander]

Opps. Double post

Modifié par Motherlander, 01 avril 2012 - 09:51 .

[The Cult Of Shepard]

I just had to share this.

This is what YouTuber, smudboy, had to say about this. Warning: both videos are pretty long. (He makes a few good suggestions of his own by the way)

Mass Effect 3, Bookends of Destruction. Part 1 - www.youtube.com/watch

Mass Effect 3, Bookends of Destruction. Part 2 - www.youtube.com/watch

[EDIT] - Part 3 is on the way.

Modifié par The Cult Of Shepard, 01 avril 2012 - 11:20 .

[Versidious]

Motherlander wrote...

cornman89 wrote...

I'm wary of suggesting actual changes to the game narrative. So I won't.

However, I wanted to express that I think the Catalyst's "Synthetics will always try to kill organics, no exceptions!" claim is totally crazy, and not consistent with anything that has ever happened in the Mass Effect trilogy. Probably heard this a million times by now, I realize, but if one more person saying it carves the message even slightly  deeper, then I'll have done my job.

Yes it is crazy. However, I think the reasoning can make sense in the game if you change the perspective.

If you make out the Cataylst to be crazy, then the logic suddenly makes sense. Not from Sheprd's point of view of course, but fro the view of a crazy ancent machine.

If the Catalyst was made out to be some crazy killer robot like we were lead to believe the Reapers actually are, then this statement just sounds like the lunatic ramblings of crazy killer machine that has no perspective on what it is really doing.

However, the catalyst was not made out to be crazy. It was made out to be the source of all true wisdon. And in that sense, the logic does not make sense at all.

I think there are better reaons that could have been used that make more sense in contemporary life.

For example: The Reapers believe they are protecting the natural development of non-sentient and less advanced organic life. The logic is that when a civilisation gets too advanced, it may start to exploit other worlds and species to the extent that natural development and evolution is prevented in many worlds. So on that basis, the Reapers believe themselves to be preservationists who are protecting evolution.  So to do this they cull advanced civilisations every few thousand years. In effect they are reaping advanced civilisations to prevent the advanced civilisation reaping non-sentient and primitive species.

In this way, the cycle of destruction is the a killer robot's extreme, brutal and systematic method of enforcing their own version of Star Trek's Prime Directive.

I like the idea that one Reaper was created to solve a cepcific problem, like say destroy an aggressive advanced species that could devour life in the whole galaxy. An example I would give are say the Tyrannids from the Warhammer 40K Universe. Perhaps the reapers were built to destroy that threat and then just got out of control, believing wrongly in the infallibility of their power, morals and logic.

I like the idea that the Reapers are poweful weapons over which their creators lost control. That still covers the conflict between synthetics and organics, but presents it ina different light.

In the end we want to see the Reapers potrayed as evil, obsolete robots that are no longer relevant and deserve to be destroyed.

If you have them presented like that, then we imagine cotemporary issues like deforestation and nuclear weapons. And that is a much more interesting artistic vision to me than the one that Bioware presented with us.

I think it's the music. It just makes Shepard think that this is all very profound, when it isn't.

But yeah. Bioware's artistic vision was that the ending trapped us, to make a point that we don't *always* have a way out. I understand their intention to contrast everyone saying 'No, we've won before, and we can do it again!' with the reality, that winning comes with a great price. It's a nice idea, and if done right, they could have patted themselves on the back. But it's the kind of thing which, although it can only truly be done with a trilogy, and only truly done with games, for that matter, *shouldn't* be done with a trilogy of games, for exactly the same reason why it would work: User control. The biggest but of all, however, was that it was poorly executed, completely undermined the Reapers, turning them from dark Old Ones style gods, to evil robots that are programmed to be evil.

On that note, I disagree that the Reapers should be obsolete weapons (Here are worrying signs that Bioware might not be able to please all fans), though that would certainly be better than the current one, and I would quite like that explanation, if their motives must be revealed, I suppose (It's a bit Star Trek TOS, 'Doomsday')! I would have liked it if their motives reamined a mystery - perhaps if there had been missions to where the Reapers were doing something strange, and Shepard has to find out what it is, and he does, but it makes no sense. So, the Reapers' immediate purposes are revealed, but their long term goals, and reasons for using this method, remain inscrutable, and are even *proved* to be beyond our comprehension, as Sovereign once said. This could have revealed a Reaper achilles heel, which can only help us because this time the Reapers haven't shut down the Mass Relay networks. The Crucible should then have been revealed to be a trap laid for just such occasions, but perhaps we still turn it to our advantage, somehow...

[BentOrgy]

Give us dialogue that actually makes a difference, with more than two options.

Simple, but this is really the biggest flaw in the entire game for me personally; the amount of auto-dialogue completely ripped any and all emotional depth away, with MY Shepard suddenly being an Earth First Alliance babbling monkey, despite being a Galaxy First Humans can wait in line with everyone else SPECTRE.

Honestly; how the hell was the Alliance able to detain me, a council Spectre, for six months? Spectres are above the law, a fact clearly stated in the first two games, and yet Bioware forced me to stay put? I should have been able to tell Hackett in Arrival "Forget your dress blues, if you want me, file a request with the Council."

I fully realize that this change would completely derail the game, and is in no way feasible with the amount of energy and resources Bioware probably has at the moment, but hey, you asked.

Another change would be to can the streamlined "Support this person, or this person?" mechanic; its completely impersonal and it undermines the empathy we're suppose to feel for these NPCs. Look and Michael and Rebecca in ME1, that scene was emotional because of the depth they put into it, with player up close and active in the conversation, making CHOICES that reflected what they wanted.

This change is a little more feasible, as it doesn't concern the entire game, however, I realize here too is a little much for a "Quick fix," patch. But it would go a LONG way toward making ME3 actually feel like it belongs with the first two titles.

[Necrissa]

I really want to see the achievements to have some impact on the gameplay. Theere are several games that award players with bonuses for completing the achievements. For example the recruit/soldier/veteran achievements can give you 1/3/5% weap bonus damage and every biotic power achievement can give you additional 2% power dmg bonus, the mail slot and maybe another "head shot kill" achievement can give you 5% less bullet spread each and so on...

Coz now i rly dont see the point of doing the achievements, except to see the collection of pretty medals that do nothing...

[Motherlander]

Versidious wrote...
 I would have liked it if their motives reamined a mystery - perhaps if there had been missions to where the Reapers were doing something strange, and Shepard has to find out what it is, and he does, but it makes no sense. So, the Reapers' immediate purposes are revealed, but their long term goals, and reasons for using this method, remain inscrutable, and are even *proved* to be beyond our comprehension, as Sovereign once said.

To be honest that would work fine for me too. In the end, the reapers should be made out to be big evil robots that need to explode in a big ball of fire. That's all that matters to me.

I was only showing how easy it is to make up an alternative reason that makes more sense than the one we have, at least to me.

Modifié par Motherlander, 01 avril 2012 - 12:06 .

[Moorningstaar]

One more thought . . . If you got 'The Project' (the dlc to rescue Doctor Kenson), then you know that destroying a Mass Relay unleashes huge amounts of energy that destroy the hosting solar system. So how do we destroy the relays in the galaxy without wasting every system they are in?

[Moorningstaar]

Necrissa wrote...

I really want to see the achievements to have some impact on the gameplay. Theere are several games that award players with bonuses for completing the achievements. For example the recruit/soldier/veteran achievements can give you 1/3/5% weap bonus damage and every biotic power achievement can give you additional 2% power dmg bonus, the mail slot and maybe another "head shot kill" achievement can give you 5% less bullet spread each and so on...

Coz now i rly dont see the point of doing the achievements, except to see the collection of pretty medals that do nothing...

lol I actually did them without trying!  I always play on insanity and if you do that and complete each mission your just about gauranteed to get the platinum.  That being said I agree with you and constantly give my trophy-**** friends a hard time about the pains they go through for such a worthless reward.

[Little Princess Peach]

I do have a small request to add more background story to Shep, like having a small conversation with the mother if he was a spacer, or at least some detailed background informartion even if its just an email, I would like to have seen shepards mother at the end of the game because we know she was working on that project.

since its the last story Cmr shep will have, family moments would be intresting maybe we could revisit the colony if shep came from one or maybe get news of his friends from earth if he was born there

[ed87]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I do have a small request to add more background story to Shep, like having a small conversation with the mother if he was a spacer, or at least some detailed background informartion even if its just an email, I would like to have seen shepards mother at the end of the game because we know she was working on that project.

since its the last story Cmr shep will have, family moments would be intresting maybe we could revisit the colony if shep came from one or maybe get news of his friends from earth if he was born there

Yeah i would second this, but more importantly more depth in the story. I found everything was too simplified like a movie script. Important things had to be found out from the codex, which is a no-no in storytelling. Example: I made Anderson councillor in ME1 but Udina took his place in ME3 regardless of my choice and i was left with no explanation without going to the internet.

[Little Princess Peach]

ed87 wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I do have a small request to add more background story to Shep, like having a small conversation with the mother if he was a spacer, or at least some detailed background informartion even if its just an email, I would like to have seen shepards mother at the end of the game because we know she was working on that project.

since its the last story Cmr shep will have, family moments would be intresting maybe we could revisit the colony if shep came from one or maybe get news of his friends from earth if he was born there

Yeah i would second this, but more importantly more depth in the story. I found everything was too simplified like a movie script. Important things had to be found out from the codex, which is a no-no in storytelling. Example: I made Anderson councillor in ME1 but Udina took his place in ME3 regardless of my choice and i was left with no explanation without going to the internet.

Yes I dislike those codex entries they leave a sour taste in my mouth some times because they could end up being rumors like the DAO epilouges

[SandMan2012]

Setting the ending issues aside for now (I posted those suggestions in the endings thread) here are some additional thoughts that I hope help. Mass Effect 3 did a lot of things right, don’t get me wrong, but there is always room for improvement.

One of the best things about Mass Effect and something that was made even better in ME2 was the ability to chat with your squad mates; this was by far one of the most enjoyable parts of the game and part of the reason that I became so attached to them and the game as a whole. I understand that Mass Effect 3 was made to bridge the gap between RPG and a fast paced shooter, and I respect that being someone that enjoys shooters. The goal is noble and this series has done many firsts in gaming, but, I strongly feel that it took away from the game in this case, and there is a large amount of room for improvement.

When you initially start the game and even through the settings during the game you can chose how you would like to play the game, however, when you chose the "traditional mass effect experience" it is not really that. I would say it feels like 3/4 the experience it felt like in ME2, because, well, the dialogue choice is lacking, as well as character development. 

One of the most revolutionary things that the Mass Effect series did was to give players meaningful choice, and then allow them to see the impact of their choice. For me, that drew me in instantly and held me here so long and really, it’s why I am still here. Mass Effect was an excellent game and it was well rounded. Obviously there was some room for improvement, and in Mass Effect 2 we saw much of that. Combat was improved, visuals were awesome, but more to my point, we saw much in the character development department, the “Loyalty Missions” were exceptional, and maybe my second favorite part of the game, next to the ending. In Mass Effect 3, much of that was dropped it felt and even thought it was a longer game overall, at least it felt it, the characters seemed hung out to dry and they were as they were, with the exception of Liara, more on that later. The best example I have is when Ash is completely trashed and on the floor. This would have been a moment where I saw my Shepard, as her friend or love interest, kneeling down next to her and having a real conversation with her about the reality of it all, and then getting her up and go to the couch to lie down and sleep it off. Then to add to the "reality" of it she might not be available for the next mission. Instead you just stand there, like a complete jerk in my honest opinion, and listen to a pre-determined conversation in which you have no choice. These pre-determined conversations severely detracted from my game play experience overall and I ended up walking out of the rooms to go somewhere else and just move on, and consequently, I felt less engaged in the game. 

As I promised, I will now elaborate on my comment regarding Liara. To me she felt the only “fully” developed character in the entire game, even Shepard to me did not feel fully developed mostly due to the ending. After Thessia we see her enraged at team members after what just happened to her planet, and then we go see her. And we sit down and have a real “heart to heart” about the reality of it all. To me it felt like I had more real conversations with her on the ship than any other character. However I would also like to say the moments with characters like Garrus on the Citadel, Ashley at the wall or Cortez at the wall, and other moments like these was very well done and I loved them. 

Now, not to forget the importance of praise, onto the positive things about the game I did enjoy. The combat was even better than in ME2 and it truly felt “real” if you will. The cinematic sequences were, in my opinion, the best in the series. Those little moments that I mentioned in the previous paragraph and so many other things as well, such as seeing my decisions from previous games make an impact.
 
I would like to thank you for all of the experience I love in this game and the previous. But I also urge you to look at where this game seemed to depart from the “norm” of the series and find ways to make it better and truly end the series on a “bang.” Never forget that as much as the series is a “labor of love” for you, the developers and the ones that dreamed this amazing story up, it is a love for us the fan as well. I have complete faith in you BioWare, and I have enjoyed too many of your games to know that you will always try your hardest to do right by the fans.

I know this was long, but I also know you read it. Thank you for your time. If it would help to have this made into a list I can do that too.

Modifié par SandMan2012, 01 avril 2012 - 02:07 .

[FatalX7.0]

The player is far too disconnected from their Shepard.

This game is barely the RPG it used to be.

[DunadanTurambar]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

The player is far too disconnected from their Shepard.

This game is barely the RPG it used to be.

Sadly that is what has hapenned since mass effect 2, dialogs are molstly default now, and a renegade and paragon Shepard will say the same things except in rarely ocasitions where they lets us "choose".
Also in mass effect and even in mass effect 2 there were middle dialog options, nor paragon or renegade. But now Shepard's responses are all black and white.

The real sad thing of this series is not just the ending; but also that it left the RPG roots it was founded and slowly became just another third person shooter. That is the real artistic integrity Bioware has abandoned.

[Zan_Vaelius]

One thing was bugging me throughout the game: Why was no Reaper "Assuming Direct Control" of anything? That felt to me a bit odd. Old Man Harbringer kept harrasing Shepard that way throughout ME2 that way and now without it feels odd. So please if possible bring back that. Maybe with Marauders who seem to me as Collector's replacement for this cycle.

[tlor57]

Ways to make Mass Effect 3 10/10 (rather than 9/10) in order:

1)Fix my 360 controller dead zone
2)Have a final confrontation/battle with Harbinger
3)Shoot TIM in head
4)More dialogue options with Star Child
5)More variation in endings, not just ABC...and see war assets in action
6)Make it harder to save Earth
7)Get rid of multiplayer modifier
8)Day one DLC should have been free, as should future DLC

easy

[9Enrico0]

bioware.. when you'll tell us something?????

[Dakota Strider]

I do not like the "Indoctrination Fix", since it still leaves too many holes in the story. The simplest fix that I see is a spin on the "Dallas" dream sequence. In the final battle before "Death Charge" on the death ray, Shepard takes a blow to the head. In a light coma, he dreams the final ending. With all the slow motion, and lack of options given, it felt very similar to the other dreams he had during the game. He awakens a short time later, to find out it was just a nightmare, and that his squad and other alliance troops are getting ready to approach the beam of light. From there, they actually make battle decisions that make sense, no repeat of the suicidal charge, when moving through cover and concealment, and surrounding the target leaves a much better chance for success.

Inside, no diety of any sort. A healthy Shepard has an epic boss battle against the indoctrinated TIM, and Reaper minions. The resulting victory does not destroy all Reapers, but severely cripples them, and allows the alliance to start pushing them off their home planets, in difficult, but winnable scenarios, one at a time. This would be similar to the "Island Hopping" campaign conducted by the US vs Japan in WW2. This "World Hopping", take back of the rest of the galaxy, could be conducted in the DLC's. Or in a ME4, that introduces a new cast of characters, as Shepard and his crew are busy elsewhere, or just deserve some time far from the frontlines.

For me, this is a win-win scenario. Fans can get they type of closure on the Shepard legacy that they deserve, not one that makes them feel like they were robbed. Bioware and EA will keep the ME franchise going, with the Take Back the Galaxy campaign, that can last as long as they like.

I would suggest, that this fix had best be free to those that have already purchased and registered their copy of ME3. The consumer already paid for it, and have not received it yet. Bioware and their partners will make up the money in future DLC's, or ME4. The goodwill they gain from fixing the ending for free, would gain them back the fan support they have lost. If they charge people for the fix, they are going to have a hard time gaining back consumer trust and loyalty.