ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
#5926
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 09:39
There were so many other influential people in Shepard's story, I would've expected them to take the form of Anderson, or even Saren. It begs the question of why.
While the Indoctrination Theory doesn't need to be followed to the T, it answers a lot of those "why" questions, and I think Bioware should seriously consider them as brainstorming material for the answers.
I understand Bioware didn't feel a happy ending was necessary. A bittersweet end could still be satisfying. But I really didn't feel a victory at all after three games of work. Our choices were genocide, enslavement, or genetic rewriting. All of them felt terrible to choose from. Even a player who worked to complete every quest 100% is not given hope.
Again, I point to the Indoctrination Theory as a guideline. The possibility that the Reapers were lying to prevent their destruction is a valid one, considering that Shepard is implied to live in the "Destroy" ending despite the child's warning. However, that is never truly answered. I'm not asking for a happy end. I'm not even asking for Shepard to live. But I want answers. I want to know why.
#5927
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 09:43
Dottumnz wrote...
*snip snip snip*
b. Journal – It’s confusing. The quests don’t update. It’s nice that the person I’m
supposed to take the item I just got of [planet] showed up on the map, otherwise I would have been unable to do any of those missions. Why isn’t there a physical separation of main missions and side missions anymore? It
makes the journal hard to use.
*snip snip snip*
THIS. There definitely has to be journal updates... I have wandered blindly for so many quests that it drove me insane. Many of these quests were just picked up eavesdropping on random people, so I couldn't keep track of what I'd already picked up or not.
#5928
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 09:58
#5929
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 10:23
Adept had issues standing out anyway with it's group of samey powers, now all the explosions reduce it even more.
EDIT: On looking back this is being overly harsh, maybe. I think throw setting off explosions is over the top, though. Should be limited to slower charging powers.
Modifié par Zerox Z21, 03 avril 2012 - 11:34 .
#5930
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 10:24
#5931
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 10:29
#5932
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 10:51
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
My main issues with the bulk of the game were as follows;
The journal was too ambiguous for me... there was nothing wrong with the journal from ME 1 & 2 so why reinvent the wheel?
The item retrieval galaxy at war missions felt impersonal and detached... I really enjoyed the fun little N7 missions from ME 2( e.g. N7: Lost Operative)... The ambient conversation quest acquisition seemed quite primitive also.
I just know I'm going to think of something else as soon as I press submit. Anyway... I feel most strongly about the endings.
While I feel strongly and support fully my criticisms, I must commend the developers on a wonderful game and wonderful series, the plot(s) were handled brilliantly and the gameplay was just superb.
Thankyou for your time,
Max
#5933
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 11:01
Here's a few things that I noticed and was disapointed in.
-Auto Dialogue for the majority of conversations with your crew mates (Far less immersive)
-Planetscan fetch quests (Just boring, even ME2's planetscans and ME1's planetdrops were better)
-Door hacking removed.
-Not letting us see Tali's face (and no a photoshopped picture doesn't cut it, Diana Allers had more attention paid to her than a main character....WTH Bioware that had to be a troll)
-The "over hearing a conversation" quest system so you didn't have to do full dialogues like the prevous games.
-Broken quest journal (This is basic stuff, seriously?)
-Lack of squadmates
-No ground mission side quests (this game had I think 26 missions total) ME2 had that just in side missions.
-Only 1 hub location.
-The rushed Priority Earth mission (this was such a letdown. We spent what, an hour on earth?)
-No face off with Harbinger (Mind boggling, why build him up so much if you were basically going to ignore him this time round. He's a great bad guy that you thoroughly wasted.)
-The horrendous ending. (I don't feel I need to add anything here....just terrible)
-Assets not being in shown in battle on Earth.
Ending aside I still like the game but it's blatantly obvious that corners were cut and it is far from what I had envisioned and what should have been for the final game in an epic trilogy.
Thanks for reading.
Modifié par Hexley UK, 04 avril 2012 - 04:29 .
#5934
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 11:46
#5935
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 11:51
#5936
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 12:25
Hexley UK wrote...
I feel ME3 was obviously rushed!
Here's a few things that I noticed and was disapointed in.
-Auto Dialogue for the majority of conversations with your crew mates (Far less immersive)
-Planetscan fetch quests (Just boring, even ME2's planetscans and ME1's planetdrops were better)
-Door hacking removed.
-Not letting us see Tali's face (and no a photoshopped picture doesn't cut it, Diana Allers had more attention paid to her than a main character....WTH Bioware that had to be a troll)
-The "over hearing a conversation" quest system so you didn't have to do full dialogues like the prevous games.
-Broken quest journal (This is basic stuff, seriously?)
-Lack of squadmates
-No ground mission side quests (this game had I think 26 missions total) ME2 had that just in side missions.
-Only 1 hub location.
-The rushed Priority Earth mission (this was such a letdown. We spent what, an hour on earth?)
-The horrendous ending. (I don't feel I need to add anything here....just terrible)
-Assets not being in shown in battle on Earth.
Ending aside I still like the game but it's blatantly obvious that corners were cut and it is far from what I had envisioned and what should have been for the final game in an epic trilogy.
Thanks for reading.
This needs to be stickied.
#5937
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 12:34
As you placed heavy emphasis on the galactic readiness rating, PLEASE make the endings rationally related to the rating. It made sense to have this influence the ending, because it reflects the galaxy's ability to effectively combat the reapers. However, the endings were completely untethered to the score - while they changed the overall outcome, the endings are unclear as to HOW it affects the ending. If your score is too low, humans are incinerated in an energy wave emanating from the citadel. If you have a high score, it doesn't incinerate the humans.... so, how exactly was the effect of this energy wave dependent upon your reading rating? It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you're going to throw out an arbitrary deus ex machina for the ending, please let it make some sense. Thanks!
#5938
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 12:46
Wow I think you covered it all man! ME3 in my opinion was dumbed down compared to it's predecessors. I agree with you 100% regarding the auto dialogue. That really irritated me. Also there were very few oppportunitites to actually engage with your squadmates through dialogue wheels.When you did they too were rather simplistic. I hated having to tap the A button only to extract a line or two when on the Normandy or on the Citadel. How are you supposed to get closer to your squad and love interest if rarely get the oppotrunity to interact with them. Why do away with a formula that worked so well in ME1 and 2? I don't understand.Hexley UK wrote...
I feel ME3 was obviously rushed!
Here's a few things that I noticed and was disapointed in.
-Auto Dialogue for the majority of conversations with your crew mates (Far less immersive)
-Planetscan fetch quests (Just boring, even ME2's planetscans and ME1's planetdrops were better)
-Door hacking removed.
-Not letting us see Tali's face (and no a photoshopped picture doesn't cut it, Diana Allers had more attention paid to her than a main character....WTH Bioware that had to be a troll)
-The "over hearing a conversation" quest system so you didn't have to do full dialogues like the prevous games.
-Broken quest journal (This is basic stuff, seriously?)
-Lack of squadmates
-No ground mission side quests (this game had I think 26 missions total) ME2 had that just in side missions.
-Only 1 hub location.
-The rushed Priority Earth mission (this was such a letdown. We spent what, an hour on earth?)
-The horrendous ending. (I don't feel I need to add anything here....just terrible)
-Assets not being in shown in battle on Earth.
Ending aside I still like the game but it's blatantly obvious that corners were cut and it is far from what I had envisioned and what should have been for the final game in an epic trilogy.
Thanks for reading.
Modifié par Chrislo1990, 04 avril 2012 - 12:47 .
#5939
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 12:52
I have just done a run through of 1-3 again and wow.. no.. not happy at all. It may take a while to sink in and all that, but in a game where everyother mission my Paragon Shep is saying 'there must be another way' or giving some smart **** comment, or bringing people around to my way of thinking, there is no way (on Earth hurrhurr) that she would be 'ok lets destroy the relays' and 'oh ok lets choose to merge all life'. That just ISNT the character at all, it is as if the entire fabric of what makes Shepard, Shepard, has been removed from the last 10 minutes.
You failed. Full stop.
#5940
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 01:08
been great to me. All of the non-story related changes coming from ME2 to ME3,
I felt, were befitting to the game. I was disappointed in a fair number of
things.
1. The condition of squad mates/ supporting
characters.
-This did not initially bother me, but as I came
to realize I did not feel the depth in the characters as I did in ME2. Some of
the cameos did a fair job at "concluding" the player’s relationship
with them, but not all. Thane's and Legion's death were beautifully done, but
all of the other characters felt like we moderately disconnected from the
story. I feel like this is due to the idea that the story had to continue if
said character died in ME2.
2. Plot Holes, Plot Holes Everywhere.
- I do not feel I have to go over specific
examples. The forum has done a far better job at that than I could.
3. Ending
- I will follow suit with all of the other
"hardcore" Mass Effect fans and say the ending was not anywhere close
to the level it deserved to be. I will quote Kotaku and say we were
disrespected. ( http://kotaku.com/58...nvested-players). Nothing we did added up in ending.
Once the Crucible was introduced I got worried.
When the Citadel became the Catalyst I was disappointed. When the actual Catalyst was reveled I turned off my console. When
I actually finished my feelings were confirmed. All of the enjoyment I took from
this series was rendered false. The journey was amazing. I had no complaints, I
was wrapped into the story and it was wonderful. The ending shattered that and
made me go back over all of it and say "Well, this was a waste of my
time." I understand that most people do not feel this way, which the
ending did not ruin the whole series, but for me it did. I know for sure a
"clarification" of the ending will do nothing to comfort me. I don't
even think a total re-write would fix the damage done.
I feel like most of my concerns and desired story
changes fall in line with the norm. So go ahead and lump me in with the rest of
the majority in that old poll.
#5941
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 01:28
The first issue being the Catalyst. It's mere presences calls into question the events of ME1. If the Catalyst is the creator of the Reaper's, why would it just sit there and allow the Protheans from Illos write an algorithm to make the Keepers ignore Sovereign's signal to open the Citadel? Or given Shepard the opportunity to use the override codes to regain control of the Keepers? That would be counterintuitive to the Catalyst's and the Reapers' goals. This factor needs to be addressed or rermoved completely. I suggest it being removed because something tells me I'm not going like whatever explanation is given for the Catalyst motives behind this issue.
The second issue I have is the destruction of the mass relays. It was already stated in ME2: Arrival that the destruction of mass relay will result in a supernova explosion that would destroy the system that relay occupies. It was even reinstated by Anderson at the beginning of ME3. How is it even possible that Shepard didn't commit mass genocide on a galactic scale at th is beyond me?
What is most frustrating about this situation is the fact that the ME fans got super pissed about William Dietz (who by the way wasn't apart of the offical writing team on any of ME games) for all his canonical errors when writing ME: Deception. I admit the book was frustrating to read because of those issues. But I'm sure the next time he'll do a better job researching before he writes another book on a franchise as big as Mass Effect. Now, those same fans seem to be fine with or overlooking theses issues in the game.
I think that everybody should be equally or if not more pissed that writers of ME3 couldn't keep their facts straight. I think this is a main pressing issue that we should keep reminding Bioware about when dicussing ME3's endings.
Instead we've go posters on here that are still crying because they can't get a look at Tali's face. It's never going happen guys! The sooner you accept that the sooner will be able to move on with our lives. Tali's face wll forever be an enigma because thats the way Bioware wants it. They wanted to leave it to the player's imagination to come up with the appearance of Tali's face. I guarantee if Bioware did in fact caved in and gave you a glimpse of her face about 90% of you would be pissed because there would be some small discrepancy that you wouldn't like about it. If you are that deseprate to see her face then go to deviantart and pull whatever picture best fits your ideal look for her face and then invision it when your Shepard is making love to her. Just stop bothering Bioware on this issue because it's never going to happen.
Now back to the issue with the ending. Bioware, If you are really listening to your fans make sure that the canonical issues mention above are dealt with when writing the new endings. I would really suggest that you get Drew Karpyshyn back in as the Lead Writer for the new endings. I believe his overall involvement with developing the story behind ME1 and ME books he has written make him more than qualified for the job.
No offense to Mac Walters but I don't particularly care for his writing, especially since some of the Mass Effect related stuff he's written in the past has had these issues that I'm talking about. For an example, is Mac Walter's depiction of General William's (Ashley's grandfather) involvement in the liberation of Shanxi. In ME1, Ashley clearly states that her grandfather surrendered to save the lives of his troops and civilians from the Turians and that once Shanxi was liberated by the Alliance that he was taken back to Earth in "irons" for surrendering to the Turians. But in ME: Evolution, Mac Walter's wrote it as though it wasn't his idea to surrender, that the higher ups pulled rank on him. Then General Williams is present during the prisoner exchange between Alliance and Turian Empire a few weeks after the liberation Shanxi when he should have been on Earth. After the prisoner exchange, General Williams goes on to state to Jack Harper (The Illusive Man) that he plans on retiring because he doesn't want to comform to Alliance's new policy to play nice with the "aliens", when in reality he was relieved of command by the Alliance. If Mac Walters were to elaborated more on the events of ME: Evolution in ME3 then maybe this wouldn't be such a big problem with me but as far as I know these events are not not mentioned. I have not played a career where ashley lived instead of kaidan so maybe that would make difference but probably not.
Nothing aggratives me more then when a writer writes something that completely contradicts what was already established in earlier works of a particular sreies. Sure Mac Walters has written plenty of good stuff as far characteriztion, story, and plot go. But it seems like he doesn't bother reviewing his writing to make sure it doesn't conflict with stuff that has been written in the past. That's why I believe that Drew Karpyshyn would be better suited for writing the endings. He has not given me any reason to question his sense of continuity in any of his ME books. Drew Karpyshyn's ME: Ascension with its introductions to Cerberus and the Collector's was one of the main reasons got excited about ME2. He helped set the tone for the staging ground of ME2. He also layed down the ground work for ME3 in ME; Retribution. I don't think there would be anyone better to be the lead in writing theses endings then him. I'm sure there is plenty of people that would dissagree but personally I would love to see him return to writing for Mass Effect, even it was just for the new revised endings.
Well, I think I've stated what I wanted to share. I hope these comments don't get viewed as me personally attacking anyone. I just wanted to share my concerns and opinions on this subject while hopefully being constructive in my criticisms. If not I apologize. Thanks for listening.
#5942
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 01:39
Modifié par JJ436, 04 avril 2012 - 01:43 .
#5943
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 01:49
2) I play a biotic for a reason and that reason is I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a gun-stop making me use them (guarding the barricade on Palavan's moon, rescuing Admiral Korras, the wall in London, that stupid final push where you have to kill 3 husks and a marauder)
3) Two words:Final Boss-I maintain that this game didn't have an ending when it was released and something just got added on because the deadline got missed. Mass Effect bosses went Saren, Human Reaper, 3 stupid husks and a marauder. Actually, while I'm not the topic-there was an overall lack of bosses in ME3, there should be more bosses (and enemies you fight later anyways don't count).
4) I've said this before, but equality of romance-if I am romancing Garrus I do not want Liara's face to flash before me in my dying moments. Please stop assuming I am either a man or a lesbian.
5) Do not make me play the multiplayer to get all existing endings-ME is a single-player franchise and if people want to play the multiplayer, more power to them, but don't punish the people who don't want to play multiplayer-make muliplayer a multiplier of your assets rather than a divisor.
Modifié par FairfaxLessee, 04 avril 2012 - 02:00 .
#5944
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 01:58
Very well written. And by the way there are far more discrepencies in ME3 than those youn mentioned. There's no excuse for Bioware writers to completley dioregard canon. I'm sure they keep copies of their scripts from ME1 and ME2. All they had to do was read them. It just speaks of carelessness to me or that they we were rushed by EA and failed to actually research essential concepts.Zach Forry wrote...
I feel like that I must reinterrate what I wrote a few days ago. There seems to be alot of people missing the one major flaw with the endings of ME3. Yes, having closure to endings is one of the major factors that needs to be addressed, but I think that people should be more upset with huge canonical issues that are present in the endings.
The first issue being the Catalyst. It's mere presences calls into question the events of ME1. If the Catalyst is the creator of the Reaper's, why would it just sit there and allow the Protheans from Illos write an algorithm to make the Keepers ignore Sovereign's signal to open the Citadel? Or given Shepard the opportunity to use the override codes to regain control of the Keepers? That would be counterintuitive to the Catalyst's and the Reapers' goals. This factor needs to be addressed or rermoved completely. I suggest it being removed because something tells me I'm not going like whatever explanation is given for the Catalyst motives behind this issue.
The second issue I have is the destruction of the mass relays. It was already stated in ME2: Arrival that the destruction of mass relay will result in a supernova explosion that would destroy the system that relay occupies. It was even reinstated by Anderson at the beginning of ME3. How is it even possible that Shepard didn't commit mass genocide on a galactic scale at th is beyond me?
What is most frustrating about this situation is the fact that the ME fans got super pissed about William Dietz (who by the way wasn't apart of the offical writing team on any of ME games) for all his canonical errors when writing ME: Deception. I admit the book was frustrating to read because of those issues. But I'm sure the next time he'll do a better job researching before he writes another book on a franchise as big as Mass Effect. Now, those same fans seem to be fine with or overlooking theses issues in the game.
I think that everybody should be equally or if not more pissed that writers of ME3 couldn't keep their facts straight. I think this is a main pressing issue that we should keep reminding Bioware about when dicussing ME3's endings.
Instead we've go posters on here that are still crying because they can't get a look at Tali's face. It's never going happen guys! The sooner you accept that the sooner will be able to move on with our lives. Tali's face wll forever be an enigma because thats the way Bioware wants it. They wanted to leave it to the player's imagination to come up with the appearance of Tali's face. I guarantee if Bioware did in fact caved in and gave you a glimpse of her face about 90% of you would be pissed because there would be some small discrepancy that you wouldn't like about it. If you are that deseprate to see her face then go to deviantart and pull whatever picture best fits your ideal look for her face and then invision it when your Shepard is making love to her. Just stop bothering Bioware on this issue because it's never going to happen.
Now back to the issue with the ending. Bioware, If you are really listening to your fans make sure that the canonical issues mention above are dealt with when writing the new endings. I would really suggest that you get Drew Karpyshyn back in as the Lead Writer for the new endings. I believe his overall involvement with developing the story behind ME1 and ME books he has written make him more than qualified for the job.
No offense to Mac Walters but I don't particularly care for his writing, especially since some of the Mass Effect related stuff he's written in the past has had these issues that I'm talking about. For an example, is Mac Walter's depiction of General William's (Ashley's grandfather) involvement in the liberation of Shanxi. In ME1, Ashley clearly states that her grandfather surrendered to save the lives of his troops and civilians from the Turians and that once Shanxi was liberated by the Alliance that he was taken back to Earth in "irons" for surrendering to the Turians. But in ME: Evolution, Mac Walter's wrote it as though it wasn't his idea to surrender, that the higher ups pulled rank on him. Then General Williams is present during the prisoner exchange between Alliance and Turian Empire a few weeks after the liberation Shanxi when he should have been on Earth. After the prisoner exchange, General Williams goes on to state to Jack Harper (The Illusive Man) that he plans on retiring because he doesn't want to comform to Alliance's new policy to play nice with the "aliens", when in reality he was relieved of command by the Alliance. If Mac Walters were to elaborated more on the events of ME: Evolution in ME3 then maybe this wouldn't be such a big problem with me but as far as I know these events are not not mentioned. I have not played a career where ashley lived instead of kaidan so maybe that would make difference but probably not.
Nothing aggratives me more then when a writer writes something that completely contradicts what was already established in earlier works of a particular sreies. Sure Mac Walters has written plenty of good stuff as far characteriztion, story, and plot go. But it seems like he doesn't bother reviewing his writing to make sure it doesn't conflict with stuff that has been written in the past. That's why I believe that Drew Karpyshyn would be better suited for writing the endings. He has not given me any reason to question his sense of continuity in any of his ME books. Drew Karpyshyn's ME: Ascension with its introductions to Cerberus and the Collector's was one of the main reasons got excited about ME2. He helped set the tone for the staging ground of ME2. He also layed down the ground work for ME3 in ME; Retribution. I don't think there would be anyone better to be the lead in writing theses endings then him. I'm sure there is plenty of people that would dissagree but personally I would love to see him return to writing for Mass Effect, even it was just for the new revised endings.
Well, I think I've stated what I wanted to share. I hope these comments don't get viewed as me personally attacking anyone. I just wanted to share my concerns and opinions on this subject while hopefully being constructive in my criticisms. If not I apologize. Thanks for listening.
Modifié par Chrislo1990, 04 avril 2012 - 01:58 .
#5945
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 03:06
if it turns out to be correct then you have done a fantastic job and pushed the medium audience relations of video games
if it is not correct and the final sequence is the literal ending of the series then it should be more logical and streamlined with the rest of the series
i found the autodialogue to be a step backwards, i watched more than i interacted
this was throughout the entire game.
the lack of cutscenes for crew interaction was also disapointing
side quests were lacklustre, scanning for items and returing them became repetive
side quests i enjoyed were the n7 missions and the me2 squad missions ie samara and the monastry, kasumi's mission etc
the return of old characters ie sha ira, shiala, the asari cop from samaras recruitment mission, the salarian guy who researched the keepers
more backstory for squadmates and shepard her/himself
maybe more references to the spectres, seeing as the organisation was such a large part of me1
i guess we'll see what happens in the next few weeks, but i think with the current ending sequence and grandpa grandson epilogue, the depth of the mass effect experience is dismissed
#5946
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 04:23
PLEASE FIX THE JOURNAL! It is annoying as heck!
I am doing my second playthrough now and while the ending was incredibly confusing, cliche, and disappointing, it is only the last ten minutes or so of gameplay, and I'll take your word that it is being addressed in some way before long (announcement would be nice - benefit of the doubt goes only so far). The journal is an ongoing source of annoyance. Did I find the item in question? Who knows! I have just spent a bunch of time scanning a number of galaxies so I can go back to the Citadel with my pockets full of surprises for random people, but I can't remember what I found, or how many things I have found, or whether I found enough of these items to make it worthwhile going back to the Citadel. It makes me wonder why the side "quests" (I'm talking "find the item" here) are even listed on there at all - you could just go around scanning, and then return to the Citadel and find the random people listed on the map, without having these things clog up the "journal." I'd rather have the journal reflect the quests and whether or not I've found the item, of course, but the journal is so long and it isn't helpful.
Also, when you open the journal, it should open at the top, with the unfinished quests, not in the middle of a sea of finished quests which requires you to scroll upward for about an hour by the time you are nearing the end of the game.
The issues with the journal are so basic, and that's what makes them even more annoying. Hopefully it would be an easy fix.
Thanks for listening.
Modifié par medusa_hair, 04 avril 2012 - 04:35 .
#5947
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 04:26
http://arkis.deviant...ILERS-289902125
There are some other problems with the story that should be fixed too and I go through them in detail in a column on my website www.adamgreene.com . And you should fix them, but, really fixing the ending would do a whole lot to cover up the other problems in the game's story.
In the end, all we really want is for what we did in the 40 or so hours of the game to matter and to tell the sparkly ghost kid to go straight to hell, like we've been able to do to every single character, including our "friends" in every other part of the game(s).
Personally killing Harbinger would be pretty awesome too. And keeping Tali's face hidden in the main game story is lame.
#5948
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 05:01
#5949
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 06:06
AdamGreene13 wrote...
http://arkis.deviant...ILERS-289902125
The first half was a little rough, (Due mostly to it needing to tie in with what Bioware already wrote.) but the final third of this piece made me nearly explode; the imagery that it conjures, the nuance and character it delivers; incredible, absolutely incredible. Bioware should aspire to what this fan has done.
#5950
Posté 04 avril 2012 - 06:14





Retour en haut




