7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariq]

Aside from a few minor quibbles, I loved Mass Effect 3 right up until the very end. So much was done right, I was left speechless that the end was done so wrong. The emotional notes of the game were, for the most part, right on target. Thane's death, brilliant. Mordin's death, tragic. Grunt's triumphant victory. The angst built into the conflict between the Geth and the Quarians; Tali's moments on Rannoch. The refugee camp. The off-hand death of Kelly Chambers, an unexpected loss to add into the count of losses. The momentary successes, the breakthroughs, the hope becomes hopelessness, the desperation, the crushing weight building on Shepard's shoulders: all done well. Very well. In those moments, Mass Effect 3 matched any work of art for power, any work of literature for meaning.

Then the end. What to say about the end?

When I reached the beam and saw Harbinger, my heart skipped a beat. I had wondered where Harbinger had gotten off too; I had looked forward to our eventual confrontation. "This hurts you." After Thane and Mordin and Kelly Chambers and the ruin of Thessia, oh man, woud he ever have been right. It did hurt me.

Then the blast. I thought it was a dream sequence, which made sense and had been foreshadowed earlier in the game. The strange slo-mo. The pistol without ammo. Where did my shotgun go? For that matter, where did my armor go? Where is my squad? Why won't my biotics work? These questions nagged at me, but I pushed them aside. It is a dream. It will end when I reach the beam. It didn't end. The hallway of death on the Citadel. Clearly, a nightmare. Anderson, the Illusive Man. Dark shadows in my vision. Dying. Still, I wondered if it was a dream. At some point I would wake up and face Harbinger.

"This is what you face," he would say, "The forces of the universe bend to me."

Instead, I get a glowing VI in the form of a kid spouting faux-profundities any 1st year logic student could dismantle for weekend homework. Still a dream. Long dream sequence of a game, I thought. I heard him out, mostly because I didn't think it mattered. I didn't pay a lot of attention after the lapses in logic. Dream logic never makes sense. Go to the light. Sure thing. Finally, I'll wake up and find Harbinger.

"You will know pain, Shepard," Harbinger would tell me.
 
I would respond, "I understand pain more than a machine ever could. I've lost, I've learned, I've fought and struggled. Seen some I love die, and carried the hopes of a thousand worlds. All to see you defeated."

Instead, as I ran into the beam of coloured light for synthesis I got...honestly, what the heck was that? A generic battle moment that didn't include anyone I cared about. The Mass Relays destroyed, and galactic civilization with them. Joker and EDI stranded on a remote planet, whose name no one even knows. Tali is with them. That jarred me out of my dream complacency. Why is Tali'Zorah vos Normandy on the mystical planet? Last I knew, she was dead on the London battlefield, slain by Harbinger's blast of fury. If not dead, then wounded. It nearly killed Shepard, after all. It annihilated Hammer. My poor, sweet Tali must be wounded, at the least.

And then, I was sure I would wake up to find Harbinger gloating.

"Shepard, submit now," he would say, "You cannot escape your destiny."

"Back to the void with you," I'd scream at him, hitting the renegade option. The crucible would activate. Likely, I would die. So would Harbinger. His last words would be a laugh, "You are arrogant, Shepard, you will learn." The words would leave a tingle on my spine. A chill that I had made some terrible mistake that my mind could not quite understand. Because I took Sovereign at his word. I believed Vigil. I could not understand any more than an ant can understand multivariable calculus. Understanding would be irrelevant. This war was about survival. I'll deal with the next war when it comes, or the Council Races will. Shepard bought them the chance to make that destiny their own.

Instead, the game ended. Really. Fade to black. Cue credits. Roll on snare. Good joke. Except no one's laughing. Except I have the nagging suspicion someone in Bioware is laughing at me.

What do I want?

1) The Indoctrination Theory to be proven correct. Hallway of death, ruined citadel, the confrontation with Illusive Man, Starchild: all figments projected by the power of Harbinger brought to bear on Shepard's mind.

2) The Crucible does something -- a EMP blast, a viral signal, a primal quantum scream that only Reaper's can hear -- something that either destroys them, weakens them so the Grand Alliance can destroy them, or else drives them back to the recesses of Dark Space.

3) An epilogue (slideshow is fine) that takes into account major decisions throughout the game, such as letting the Rachni queen live. It must tell me the immediate future of all squad members. Especially the LI, providing that they survived Harbinger's blast. Tali deserves her house on Rannoch.

4) The cost of victory should be high. Squad members should be lost. Assets should be crippled. There should be a new balance of power in the galaxy -- and Shepard's decisions should have some impact on what that balance is.

5) I'm fine with Shepard dying. That's what sacrifice is all about. But sacrifice must mean something. In the current ending, the characters death means nothing. Dust blowing in the wind may make for a tragic song, but it makes for a poor ending to an epic trilogy with deep emotional involvement. And that is what we have. All we have, at the end.

Was this design oversight? I find that a staggering suggestion. ME: Arrival established that destroying Relays would destroy worlds. It was repeated more than once in my playthrough, with notable emphasis on the plight of the Batarians. But without explanation, I'm supposed to accept that it has no immediate impact on the world this time? Without explanation, I'm to understand Joker made it to a random Garden world? I'm to understand that Sovereign and Harbinger both lied in the previous games, but Starchild is telling...the truth? Why?

TL;DR version : Indoctrination True. Harbinger confrontation + Reapers die. Epilogue. The end.

Modifié par Ariq, 17 mars 2012 - 04:50 .

[Dartbeast54q]

As mentioned many many times previously, go with the indoct. theory for the ending.  After shep wakes up depending on your decisions, you awaken with your squad rushing to your side watching as the crucible fires and using the mass relays to send out a beam of energy that disables/destroys all reapers.

After that have somewhere an interactive prolouge like DA-O where you can talk with all your squadmates one last time, then do something like speak to a croud of people then the game goes into a simple thing giving a picture or short clip of each squadmate going their seperate ways and doing their part to help rebuild the galaxy, and allow Shepard to go off and be with his LI as well.

After the ending is addressed in some way, then go to other parts of the game.  Some ideas that come to mind.

1. Buy some fanart or just use the concept art to make a better depiction of Tali
2.  Add more missions in the game regarding the other races (Elcor/volus/hanar) that involve actual combat on their home worlds.
3. Maybe add a mission on the actual planet of Palvenen instead of just on their moon.

Basicly nothing that hasnt been mentioned already but doesnt hurt to just show more people would like it.

[bLark42]

Like many before me have said, what everybody else said. But I would like to put a little more emphasis on a few things.

I don't like the fact that we were lied to in Marketing. Casey said that there were many endings, we wouldn't have to pick from A, B or C. and yet this is what the endings boiled down too; and that's what I think is the killer. Besides the details all the endings are largely the same. We have no real control over what happens. and In this series, this game, this massive amazing epic. That's just not how this game works. That has never been the design philosophy, and if someone had come up to me a said, "I bet you 100 dollars you will have limited choice in the ending of ME3" I would have taken that bet and added another 100. And that's what I loved about this game! Choice is what made me play this game over and over, this is what made me come back and talk to the same person, just one more time.

I just want what we chose, and what we decided over the course of the game, to matter. And up until the last 5 minutes of an otherwise amazing game, it did.

Thank you for giving us all the chance to tell you how we feel. I really appreciate it.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Toalhinha wrote...
This. BioWare just needs to watch this e start making changes.

Make choice matter. Good choices equal good ending, bad choices equal bad ending. And "shades of grey" endings for when you do some right and some wrong throughout the game.
We want Epic Shepard, who destroy the reapers e saves the WHOLE galaxy (including Geth and EDI) lives and is reunited with his crew and L.I.
We want Tragic Shepard who dies in a blaze of glory, destroy the reapers and saves the WHOLE galaxy.
We want Fail Shepard, who can't destroy the reapers, and the galaxy is doomed.
And we want other possible outcomes in between those.

A lot of people already said it much better than I, I'm just here to support this ideas.
Please, gives us the CHOICE...the option to give my Shepard the ending that I think he deserves. choice is the golden word for everyone here, I think.
And make cinematics that SHOW what happens after the final choices, don't leave it implied and open to speculation.

Also this!

[Big I]

I needed one thing from the ending - the ability to preserve the relays and the civilization they make possible.

I wanted many things from the ending. I wanted Shepard to live. I wanted an epilogue that told you how things played out for key people and species. I wanted to know what the deal was with the Reapers, where they came from and what their history was. I wanted, above all else, to destroy the Reapers. I wanted a lot, but I only needed the one thing.

In the ending as it stands I got neither the thing I needed or the things I wanted. You can destroy the Reapers, but only by committing genocide against the geth. You can (maybe) rebuild the relays, but only by enslaving the Reapers.

When I first saw the endings I felt like I lost the game, because nothing that I valued in relation to Mass Effect mattered to how the trilogy ended. No answers, no victory, just horribly contrived nonsense.

[Sky Shadowing]

I can completely understand where BioWare was going with the endings, but there are plot holes. My suggestions:

1.) The Normandy ends the game on Earth. This clears up the 'why are they jumping randomly' plothole that everyone is so concerned about. Also, the fate of the Normandy relies on whether or not Earth survives, and helps clear up many of our 'happy ending' concerns.

2.) Add back in the 'Investigate' options for the Star Child.

3.) A speech by Admiral Hackett or somebody addressing the allied fleet, where he acknowledges that the war has basically screwed everything up, but it's still better than extinction. Make a big point on 'better than extinction', since it helps end the series on a high note.

4.) A short epilogue scene, detailing the choices you made and how they would influence the galaxy later on.

5.) Maybe replace the Star Child with Harbinger Hologram, make him insulting and such.

[DCYNIGR8]

kiiiiii wrote...

on a side note, pls bring shiala,parassini and helena blake back to talk

Seconded! Especially Parassini, couldn't believe it when I didn't find her anywhere.

[animadpig]

The biggest issue is the ending of ME3. Bioware spend a lot resource to creat Mass Effect series, and the decision made in the previous game will affect the next game. This is a very good ideal. It helps the player to create their own character not just some avatar anymore. Unfortunately, this unique ideal is not reflected in the ending of ME3. The creator tells Shepard that the Reaper is the solution to end the chaos, and you have three choices. The ending of ME3 suddenly kill the commander Shepard whom the play spend a lot of time to build. The team should reconsider about the ending of ME3 again. You still can have the same ending but have to use more delicate way to present it. The most important thing is that the players want to see the unique ending of ME3 based on the choices they made in ME1 and ME2.

 There is the other issue I want to address. If Bioware want to make the ME3 have longer life time, the multiplayer FPS mode is OK. However, this is not where Bioware should focus on because ME3 is a Role Player Game. The story is the only things matter. Besides, the multiple ending is as good as multiplayer shooting game. Multiple ending still can attract the players to play the game over and over again. ME1 is a good game except the technical issue is real problematic because I have to manually install ME1. ME2 has a very good progress in the programming, you guys got the credits of doing a good job.

Modifié par animadpig, 17 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[DarthSyphilis59]

Fame-KIllz wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Go with the indoctrination theory. Make it so we face off with Harbinger for real this time. And make the crucible a realistic construct some sort of blast that weakens the Reapers. This allows us to use our EMS to determine how the rest plays out. This would be perfect

This is exactly what I want.

They should just take the Indoctrination theory and run with it at this point.

This allows them to keep ALL current content but just add on to after Shep takes a breath.

Then we can go on to beat the Reapers in actual Mass Effect style.

Hallelujah son! Praise! Praise! Praise!!!

[bydoritos]

ShepGep wrote...

Lazy writing is lazy...

http://www.google.co...iw=1302&bih=829

I mean...really? Seriously? Do you guys REALLY expect them to actually listen to fans and add to their ending so it actually makes sense or has any closure on what happens to Shepard, your crew, the reapers, and the galaxy on the whole? When they do crap like this? Adding to the ending would require more effort than a couple of half-hearted DLCs and lame multiplayer additions so you might as well write it off and hold the line by holding your wallet and never giving Bioware anything out of it again.

 Well .. I'll not give up on this series... I hope they'll do the same.

[Actinguy1]

A)  I loved Mordin's epic death scene.  It made me worry that any ME2 character could/would die at the end of their mission.  For a moment, it looked like Jacob, Jack, and Wrex were all going to get snuffed at the shuttle off their mission's planets.  Wish there was a chance (NOT GUARENTEE) of this happening.  It makes it more fun to compare notes on who lived/died if EVERYONE can die (ala ME2). 

  War readiness.  This is just so awful.  Either have a way in SP game to improve it, or get rid of it.

C)  Scanning planets for fleets isn't just boring.  It also doesn't make sense.  The world is ending, and I have to go FIND where entire fleets have gone? 

D)   The journal tells me to go to such-and-such a planet to find various McGuffins.  I have no freaking idea where these planets are, and the galaxy map is no help, so I have to google it, leaving me open to spoilers.

E)  At BARE MINIMUM the following fix must be made to ME3's ending:  The characters running to the Citadel can not be at the crash site.  Not without in-game cutscenes showing how the hell that happened.

F)  The warscore should be tied more directly into the "run to the Citadel" scene.  While Shepard and squad run to the Citadel, show me the Turians, Alliance, Asari, Salarians, Volus, Elcor, whatever providing air support.  Tieing into this...

G)  More endings.  Combined with F above, here is how I would fix the ending:  Warscore (represented by cutscenes actually showing your allies in combat, distracting Reapers from you)  creates one of sixteen endings.

During the end sequence (maybe before running to Citadel?) all squadmates should be given a job.  Tali, go do this!  Garrus, do that!  Liara, handle that situation.  Prothean, go do Prothean stuff!  Ashley and Vega, you're on me!  Ala ME2s ending choices.  Then have a combination of warscore and choices show which of them lives and dies in cutscenes for each character.  I'd also like to see what's happening with non-squaddies like Jacob, Samara, etc.  The beam should clearly show that your two squaddies die...unless you have a ridiculously high warscore.  Or unless you recruited a specific, hard-to get ally, in which a cutscene shows that ally saving the day (Rachni?  Conrad Vernon?  Mordin if yours is somehow alive?  The Illusive Man?)  Combinations of who lives and dies would easily make up more than sixteen endings.

H)  I hate the humanization of EDI.  Probably would cost to much money, but if there was a way to prevent her from taking over Eva's body, that would be great.

[edermaldito]

 This:

penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/03/16

[LostHero2k9]

MattFini wrote...

Get StarChild out of the game as quickly as possible.

You can do this through the indoctrination theory. After all, Harbinger was arrogant in his belief that Shepard would never succeed in getting that far. It makes sense that Harbinger would make a last-ditch attempt to control him.

But here you can pull Shep from the rubble and the DLC can just be the final confrontation with Harbinger, and then a nice epilogue.

Doug M wrote...

Keep the game, up to and including the
conversation with the Catalyst, the same. Keep the three choices the
same. When the player chooses Control or Synthesis, show how these
choices were indoctrination-induced manipulation. When the player
chooses Destroy, continue the game starting from Shepard taking a breath
from the rubble, being saved by the LI, and realizing that s/he just
resisted and broke free from indoctrination.  From there, awesome
climactic final confrontation with Harbinger, huge battle with the
fleets and ground forces, victory or defeat depending on whether we had
enough Effective Military Strength, and fulfilling epilogue showing the
outcomes of our choices.

Yep! This seems to be the easiest and best way to get all those things right!
And Bioware has proven with Lair of the shadowbroker, that they can offer good bossfights in a DLC!
The only "problem" with this solution would be the question what happens to those who chose Blue or Green ^^.

Modifié par LostHero2k9, 17 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[emeraldisle88]

Doug M wrote...

Keep the game, up to and including the conversation with the Catalyst, the same. Keep the three choices the same. When the player chooses Control or Synthesis, show how these choices were indoctrination-induced manipulation. When the player chooses Destroy, continue the game starting from Shepard taking a breath from the rubble, being saved by the LI, and realizing that s/he just resisted and broke free from indoctrination.  From there, awesome climactic final confrontation with Harbinger, huge battle with the fleets and ground forces, victory or defeat depending on whether we had enough Effective Military Strength, and fulfilling epilogue showing the outcomes of our choices.

Exactly this. Please do something to fix the end Bioware. It just doesn't work the way it was left.

[RocketManSR2]

Keep them neat and tidy to make it easier on poor Jessica, guys. Please use paragraphs. Most of the posts have been well organized, but I've seen a few killer walls, too.

[Mev186]

an addendum to all of the critiques here I do think the ending could work with Shepard dying. However, I don't think it is the way to go. Most Epic trilogies end on a high note. Like Star Wars for example, lots of celebration, a sigh of relief that it's over. Or Lord of the Rings when Sam goes back to a family. We feel as if it was all worth it. The endings to ME3 don''t have that. Even with the Stargazer. We feel as if we took one step forward and ten steps back. It's no way to end an epic trilogy, and needs to be fixed.

[lucidfox]

Take out the whole spacegodchild section and everything that follows from it. Including the relays exploding, the Normandy landing spacegodchild-knows-where, and the stargazer section. And the cynical message urging to buy DLC.

Continue the game from Anderson and Shepard sitting side by side. I'm not going to tell BioWare writers how to write the story - but I trust that if Walters and company are familiar with basic narrative conventions, and the rest of the game shows that they are, then they can find a way to wrap up the story more logically and consistently with the series themes than what we got. It doesn't necessarily have to be a happy ending, as long as players can look at it and say: yes, this is where Shepard's story ends. With no need for "clarifying" post-game DLCs. Give the Commander and the companions a proper epilogue.

It has to at least include an option to destroy the Reapers - and only the Reapers. Even if it requires sky-high EMS or some other additional victory conditions, players have demonstrated that they're willing to work for that. Make it a "bittersweet" ending if you must, but don't destroy the main defining characteristics of the setting (like the Citadel and the relays), without which it stops being Mass Effect and becomes just another generic SF franchise.

[Ancalemon]

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

3) I'd like to see Electronic Arts dip into its coffers and match whatever amount the Retake Mass Effect movement has raised by the middle of April.  EA's accountants can surely find a way to justify such corporate good will.

More people need to quote this!

#1 request: THIS. $55k is nothing to a giant like EA.

As for the actual ending:

- The entire catalyst-kid sequence was frustrating becasue the choices offered didn't make sense given the choices you'd been able to make previously in the game, and you weren't able to reject the options given or argue with the kid.

- The Normandy fleeing the system makes for a pretty picture but is improbable in the context of the story. Same for the crash-landing. This entire part of the end should be scrapped, as it only makes players feel like they've fallen into another universe.

- For that matter, the entire "beam me up scotty" premise felt a little ridiculous, as this isn't functionality we've ever seen before in the ME universe. It could at least have been a mini-mass-relay -- which actually calls back in a nice way to ME1 and the Conduit on Ilos.

- It is not possible to reach certain endings by playing just the game, just in single-player mode. Some of us can't even use the datapad app because you didn't release an Android version concurrent with the iOS version. Please rebalance war assets to allow your single-player customers to actually achieve "difficult" endings.

- Your war assets are nothing more than a number that affects a few seconds of the final cutscenes. Players want the forces you collect to have more visible meaning in the final battle.

- The ending isn't bittersweet, it's just bitter. Things will still be really bad if the relays shut down and if Shep lives. Other folks have talked a lot about improving the outcomes, and I agree -- we've been led with each game to believe Shep can overcome insurmountable odds. Why should this be any different?

- I might be in the minority, but I find the destruction of the relays an entirely reasonable outcome -- just not at the cost of EDI and all the geth...and how does the Citadel/Catalyst "know," anyway? It would be so easy to say that there are now two distinct types of synthetic life -- the "I" geth and the "We" Reapers -- and have the CItadel initiate some kind cascading burst of power that kills off only Reapers by overloading every relay in every system. This still maintains the "bittersweet" aspect, as the forces now stuck in the Sol system will have to work together to restart intergalactic travel, but given that the Citadel forces are on record as being the best and the brightest of everyone, they can definitely figure something out.

Modifié par Ancalemon, 17 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[Butane9000]

Okay so you want constructive feedback? Sweet for once you guys have done something right. Well here goes.

1.) I expected to see my war assets (Allied Fleet and subsequent forces) fighting the reapers. I imagined that when making the final assault it wouldn't just be me and my two chosen squad mates. I always thought it'd be me along with my army making a giant push against the reapers. I imagined I would see Krogan riding their kakliosaur mounts shouting war cries. I hoped to see Turians assaulting in formation. I expected Alliance tanks flanked by salarian and geth engineers. The way the game is set up leads players to expect that all the war assets they acquire will actually "take part" in the battle rather then just being a number that effects the outcome.

2.) Harbinger, for being the main antagonist of ME2 having him mysteriously absent from ME3 for 99% of the game except for a brief mention during single player and his orbital dive to destroy the assaulting forces was confusing. Obviously the Illusive man is supposed to be a major character and antagonist but the game is about a war with the Reapers. Not a war with Cerberus. Excluding Harbinger from the game, after fleshing him out in ME2 and The Arrival DLC was a mistake.

3.) For a game about fighting Reapers in a war you didn't really ever fight them. You only engage 2 reapers directly (Tuchanka and Rannoch) and those are brief but fun fights. However the rest of the game your fighting their minions. This is a war where the main enemy is ignored 95% of the game and only used as background set pieces. This was another poor decision.

4.) Choices from previous games negated. Specifically the Rachni queen from ME1 and legions mission choice from ME2. If you killed the Rachni Queen the reapers just magic themselves up another one. This is retarded as supposedly she was the last one left. And as for Legion's geth, if you choose to rewrite the heretics it's negated because the Geth just go to the reapers anyway, making that whole decision pointless.

5.) The galaxy map and running from reapers. Mass effect 2's galaxy exploration system was fun. However you made it simply an annoyance in Mass Effect 3. I hated it, always having to deal with reapers who would rush you shortly after pinging just once. You took a good system and ruined it, even worse was that you left the need for fuel but destroyed all the fuel stations forcing us to look for them. Whatever you do don't do this again.

6.) The cover system on PC combined with all non combat (movement, mouse, number keys, sprinting) all being tied into space bar was retarded. I don't know how many times I died because the cover system didn't work properly or it wasn't responsive enough. Aside from that your game as some strange slowdown issues, instead of slowing down during massive combat portions of the game (a time where it'd be expected) it instead slowed downed and sometimes crashed during narrative or slow game play areas. Which made me constantly start saving the game, but your save system also messed up. Sometimes I could and couldn't save at times where I shouldn't have been able to do one or the other.

7.) Ending. Okay this ones going to be split up as there is alot wrong with the ending:
- Reaper logic, this is by far for me the most glaring issue. Asking me to accept this contradictory statement from a deus ex machina plot device was insulting. The reapers choose to wipe out organics every 50,000 years so we wont make sythetics (like the reapers) who will wipe us out? How does that make any sense, especially coming from the Reapers, an enigmatic and super intelligent race of space robot warships. The reapers were right in single player, we wouldn't be able to understand because it makes no sense!
- Shepard's 180 degree u-turn on attitude. When the Catalyst identifies itself as the head of the reaper army, what does Shepard do? He just accepts whatever it says. After all the war, combat and giving reapers and their allies the finger... he just accepts it without argument. I mean, what was the point of resisting the reapers if we are just going to let them do what they want. Such a massive and sudden reversal of the main characters ideals simply breaks all coherency in the story.
- The 3 endings. Casey Hudson himself stated that there would be so many endings based on our decisions that it wouldn't be boiled down to where we could see ending A, B or C. However when we got to the end it was literally a choice between ending A, B and C. This was a blatant lie to customers and fans. Up until the release and even after we were told every decision will have an outcome on the ending and what happens in the game. While playing mass effect 3 I saw the fruit of my minor decisions, for good or bad. But all the major decisions I expected to come to fruition at the ending. They didn't.
- Your ending wiped out my 60-90 hours of game time and decisions inside of 10 minutes. The endings of Mass Effect 3 don't even take into account any of my previous decisions. Instead I am forced to take one of 3 endings in which the only real difference is the color of the explosion and who it shows getting off the Normandy.
- In the final CGI sequence you show Joker, Anderson and your Love Interest/Romance Option. However unless you romanced Kaiden, Ashley or Liara it defaults to Liara. This proves you ignored player choice.
- You didn't give us closure. I wanted to see the outcome of my decisions, whether good or bad. I wanted to see the what the Krogan do after the battle. Do they honor their word and strive for peace? What do the races decide to do now that the Relays and Citadel are gone? How will the Turians and Quarians inside the Sol System survive once their food reserves run out since they cannot eat the food the other races do? All these and more questions were left hanging wide open.
- Your ship and crew. I wanted to see what happened to all of my crew. Similar to ME2, I expected to see them fighting (and possibly dying) the reapers. I expected to see the Normandy giving air to ground support. Instead I see Joker running from battle, having somehow magic'd my crew onboard and jumping through the relay that was about to explode and no warning. This simply didn't add up, especially since my entire crew was on the ground.
- Anderson and the Illusive man. Anderson is behind you, and somehow he reaches the citadel before you? and he's unharmed? Harbinger wouldn't stop attacking until all the forces were seemingly wiped out. This inconsistency is made worse by Anderson saying he got up to the citadel "another way" which simply doesn't make sense as he himself said the beam you were striving to reach was the only way. As for the Illusive man, the biggest inconsistency is him appearing out of thin air having nowhere to hide nearby. It simply doesn't make sense.
- The stargazer and child made some sense, but overall they were a completely unneeded portion of the ending. Given that we are not told a time frame were left purely to speculation, even worse is that planet isn't earth. So what does that tell us, nothing? It's a completely useless element to the ending that had no relation to the story. If ME1 started with the stargazer beginning a tale to the child maybe. Similar to how the Prince of Persia sands of time series looped on itself.
- The catalyst and the definition of Deus ex machina. Seriously, the Catalyst fits the definition of deus ex machina so literally it's insulting and feels like a flat cop-out from you at bioware. It honestly feels like you got to the end and didn't know how to choose endings based on the decisions people made so you magic'd up some "god" of the ME universe and thrust it on players. This is/was one of the worst decisions you could have made in regards to the ending.

8.) Tali's face and photo. Considering all the amazing artwork on DeviantArt for Tali's face, using a stock generic photo and editing it was absolutely stupid. Last I heard before release was they we wouldn't see Tali's face because you couldn't decide on what she looked like and felt we would be disappointed by whatever you chose. After I heard that you 180'd and didn't inform us, suddenly we see Tali's face and then make the correlation to the stock photo. Cementing the notion that you stopped caring about the game, the universe and the characters. Any of those fantastic and talented artists probably would have let you use their artwork for free as well.

9.) Removing the trial. I honestly felt this hurt the general story. We're never given more detail as to exactly what kind of punishment Shepard receives. Instead we're thrust back into the fight with the reapers and reinstated. I can't believe any military veteran who is stripped or his rank and privileges just shrugs it off. Especially after having been vindicated. Instead he's just chilling with absolutely no care in the world.

I know this can all be seen as "negative" feedback but I already put my positive feedback in the Bioware created thread asking for what we liked. Since your asking for things we dislike here you are, please take these responses seriously. As it stands right now I am unlikely to buy any more products from you. Which is sad considering most of the game is fantastic, the writing and emotions and just the journey itself only to end like this.
I personally don't mind a bittersweet or ambiguous ending but I expect it to be coherent and in line with the lore and story. But it also has to give the players a sense of closure, your current ending (yes singular) simply doesn't do either of these things. Also, changing the ending in games is not new. Look to your competitor Bethesda when they changed Fallout 3's ending after fan outrage.

Edit:
I forgot to add onto the Catalyst portion of the ending as well as the ending in general. The complete removal of core game play elements. These being the Paragon/Renegade system and the dialogue wheel. We loose all ability to control or engage the catalyst in discussion. We can't probe for information, we can't counter his synthetic/organic argument with the Quarian/Geth situation. This was a major flaw as well as above.

As for the Paragon/Renegade option, aside from the obvious dialogue options when talking to the Catalyst it's the action on whether to shoot The Illusive Man. You're forced to take the renegade option to save Anderson or yourself. This insults players who chose to play Renegade, while I personally don't mind this I understand why people are angry. What I don't understand was why not have both paragon and renegade buttons pop up. The only difference would be whether Shepard killed the Illusive Man out of necessity or Spite. Which are clearly 2 different things. Instead we're force fed the renegade option. Similar to Udina.

Modifié par Butane9000, 17 mars 2012 - 04:59 .

[TheMerchantMan]

I'm sure by this point, you've already seen a great deal of the suggestions I would make, from making the Indoctrination Theory canon, to reinstating the deleated Anderson/Shepard scene. To cutting out the Starchild. So I won't be too fixated on these, rather I'll get the core that I'm looking for from any fix, and the suggestions that I haven't seen made yet on the board, but would like to see myself.

1) Most important among all the changes I could ask for is the retcon of the final conflict and epilogue to give us actual closure, both in terms of seeing our war assets be involved in the final fight and in finding out what happens to them ultimately. We don't really need to see every single War Asset involved, but the major players, both in terms of races and characters, including their homeworlds need to be given proper conclusions and need to be involved.

I think the fate of every War Asset however should be investigatable. When we go on the "War Room Panel" we can investigate the value and recent updates of all the war assets, while a full video/audio component simply must be included for the major players, for the smaller groups, the fate of individual fleets and even minor characters can simply be left to a "War Room Panel" like board, where we can look up what happened to say the Rachni Queen, a simple two paragraph text explaining "She left in peace to settle in the Yada-yada Quadrant, and now sings to her many children in harmony with the other races" is all we need.



2) I think the greatest disappointment about the ending to me, is that it seems as though you tried to do a bit of everything and ended making none of it make sense. For instance the epilogue with Buzz Aldrin makes no sense with any of the endings, but would make sense if the ending were even more bleak and bittersweet.

Namely if we lost and the "Stargazer" was not human but some new race who is telling their child of how thanks to the time capsule they discovered (a very much forgotten but very powerful chekov's gun that was left unfired) they will beat the Reapers this cycle. That in my mind would have been the most effective way to use this epilogue, how it is used now however, merely increases the confusion you already had about the ending.



3) Another way you could have gone is to cut that epilogue entirely, as well as the Normandy landing scene and just concluded the game at that sacrfice cutscne. Indeed, we would have much less to complain about if that was simply patched out.

I think without a shadow of a doubt the "Normandy runs away/crashes" scene is the most universally detested and misunderstood aspect of the ending. I may be wrong, but I seriously wonder if there is any who would miss it. Patching it out seems like the very least you could do, that way us fans can imagine our own endings for our crew, and whatever (possibly crazed )  individuals actually liked that part can just imagine it right back in there.



4) The Anderson/Shepard deleted final dialogue was magnificent, I found myself thinking, if the game had simply ended there, it would have been a masterpiece. Of course it still would have lack definitive closure, but an ending like that allows for the "Journey as closure" that Mac and Casey have been trying to sell to us. 

The chief problem of "The Journey is Your Closure" in the current end is that whatever one of three endings you choose, you have created a situation where all the loose ends you spent the game tying up are suddenly unravelled again. Rather than being able to say, "well I know in my game the Quarians and the Geth made peace, and my end can be happy because I know they will get along" We are forced to unhappily imagine what in the world will become of the Geth and Quarians in this absurd situation we've been placed.



5) Already stated that war assets should matter, and frankly the amount of reworking this requires simply makes it unfeasible, that said, I am almost entirely certain that this is how you envisioned this mechanic and it simply didn't pan out. The "Galaxy Readiness Meter" tracks in percentages how ready the galaxy is for the Repaer invasions, in short terms on the Main Menu Screen it even explains what it means, with 50% being a slow but steady loss to the Reapers, all the way to a maximum of 100% with Reapers stopped by many critical victories, As soon as I saw this mechanic I believed it would have a massive impact on the end. And boy was I wrong, which is a shame. Because it could have been.

The Readiness Metre is divided into Sectors, these sectors themselves contain many of the worlds we want to know the fates of, my question is simply, why Bioware didn't use this mechanic in a straightfoward fashion of 85% readiness in Council Space  = 85% chance of the Council Space surviving the Reaper Wars, and so on and so on with each galaxy sector. That might be too simplistic, but it's better than leaving it unanswered.

Rather than it all simply getting dumped into the EMS vat of meaningless arbitrary numbers, this would make your efforts much more real and profound, though a mechanic to imrpove readiness outside of multiplayer must be added, that is already a common enough request that, if you are changing anything, I should hope it will be included.

As an addendum, I would request that any new endings take this idea further, with the Galaxy Readiness Mechanic and EMS strenght actively determning whether you defeat the Reapers, not just whether the Crucible works or what it destroys. Ultimately, I thought that one of the best ways to make the endings work for everyone is simply to create a mechanic that would allow Shepard to not take any of the Catalysts options right away, but rather hope for an Allied Forces victory, with the readiness metre and effective military strenght deteremining whether defeating the Reapers is conventionally possible, I think it could even be played on a level that as the battle wears on, the hand of the battle would switch between the Allies and the Reapers, so that at any time you became convinced that the Reapers would win you could take one of the Starchild's Faustian Deals, to save your fleets, and the cost of yourself/the synthetics/free will/whatever the blue ending does.

I dearly hope something like that is done, because it would make me squeal like a giddy school girl. 



6) I'll state it simply, and take it out of the universe into a world that most people should understand and where the comparison is apt. Imagine if  in the final act of the Lord of the Rings, as Frodo and Sam are stepping itno the bowels of Mount Doom, they suddenly encounter a dwarf, who has never before been introduced to the series, and has no explanation for his presence save that he has always been there.

He then asks Frodo to give him the ring, and Frodo simply gives it to him and then jumps into the lava. Promptly Middle Earth explodes.

This is exactly how Shepard is treated in the final game. His climatic battle is reduced to a helpless and rather unaviodable devil's gambit from a previously unknown character, who doesn't even have the decency to explain why he's there. Then without much explanation further, the entire world we had just grown to love explodes.

While it would have been fine, for us to end the story of the Lord of the Rings, simply with the rings destruction, leaving us to imagine what happened to Gondor and to the Elves, this was afterall, mostly finished by that time in the final book and movies, but when you end the book with "and then Middle Earth explodes" you no longer can entreat us to pretend that the previous resolutions are enough. Middle Earth exploded, so tell us what happens to Gondor, and the Elves and the Dwarfs and Hobbits. If you're going to Deus Ex Machina it, we need more. 



7) But the solution is ultimately simple you can take one of three paths.
A. You can make our endings happy and conclusive, in which we case we don't have to ask questions. (Victory/No Random Relay Explosion)
B. You can make our endings sad and conclusive, so that again, we can't ask any questions. (Time Capsule/Destruction but ultimately, you're the last cycle. )
C. You can make our endings ambigious but not speculative, so that we can answer our own questions within the boundaries of the universe you've already created. (No space magic, no starchild, end it at Anderson/Shep discussion)


That's all my suggestions. Thank you for listening Bioware. And I just wanted to let you know, all critisism aside, I gave Mass Effect 3 a standing ovation when the credits rolled, even though your ending needs to be changed, the work you've done over the past 5 years, and the beautiful story you created and followed diligently up until the final moments of this game has been an absolutely momentous and powerful experience. I thank you from the deepest of my heart.

Modifié par TheMerchantMan, 17 mars 2012 - 04:51 .

[Ona Demonie]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

Toalhinha wrote...
This. BioWare just needs to watch this e start making changes.

Make choice matter. Good choices equal good ending, bad choices equal bad ending. And "shades of grey" endings for when you do some right and some wrong throughout the game.
We want Epic Shepard, who destroy the reapers e saves the WHOLE galaxy (including Geth and EDI) lives and is reunited with his crew and L.I.
We want Tragic Shepard who dies in a blaze of glory, destroy the reapers and saves the WHOLE galaxy.
We want Fail Shepard, who can't destroy the reapers, and the galaxy is doomed.
And we want other possible outcomes in between those.

A lot of people already said it much better than I, I'm just here to support this ideas.
Please, gives us the CHOICE...the option to give my Shepard the ending that I think he deserves. choice is the golden word for everyone here, I think.
And make cinematics that SHOW what happens after the final choices, don't leave it implied and open to speculation.

Also this!

Agreed!

[Si-Shen]

Off the top of my head, endings that truely show differences and show that your choices really did have an effect on the out come.
Fleshed out endings without so many holes would be nice, explaining things like why the crew is on the Normandy suddenly, why its running from a shock wave that seems to only hurt the Reapers and Normandy but leaves the lightly armored soldiers on the ground alone.
The Starchilds flawed, circular logic could also be challenged a bit with say Reputation influcenced conversation options, to open up "other options" to end the game.

On a more wish side, I would like to see a slightly happier or better defined "good" ending, other then that breathing clip, something with your LI, etc. Not saying everything has to be sunshine and lollipops but something a bit brighter if you have enough going for you.

Also, the romances were a bit lacking this time around, but if thats not worth it, atleast being able to call your LI up to your cabin whenever you want would be nice, rather then the couple times it happens.

[Paparob]

emeraldisle88 wrote...

Doug M wrote...

Keep the game, up to and including the conversation with the Catalyst, the same. Keep the three choices the same. When the player chooses Control or Synthesis, show how these choices were indoctrination-induced manipulation. When the player chooses Destroy, continue the game starting from Shepard taking a breath from the rubble, being saved by the LI, and realizing that s/he just resisted and broke free from indoctrination.  From there, awesome climactic final confrontation with Harbinger, huge battle with the fleets and ground forces, victory or defeat depending on whether we had enough Effective Military Strength, and fulfilling epilogue showing the outcomes of our choices.

Exactly this. Please do something to fix the end Bioware. It just doesn't work the way it was left.

Not what I suggested but it has the epilogue I want so I support this too.

[Swinns]

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...

*copypasta*

1.  Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes. 

2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.

3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:

Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.

Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.

Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.

Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.

High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers. 

High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.


Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion. 

In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.

To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.

The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.

The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
                                Synthesis              Take down Sheilds
                                                __________/ 
                                               (                       )
                 Destroy    --------(                          ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
                                               (                       )
                                                -----------------
                                               /                      
                                      Control                Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.

EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.

5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.

EXAMPLE: 

Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).

Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”

Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.

Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity

Ect.

6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM. 



Anyway, that's my whole view on it. 


THIS WAY:  
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place. 

How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone. 


This x1000

[Dr_Hello]

First off, thank you to the BioWare people for listening and congratulations on completing such an ambitious game trilogy.

ME3 is a spectacular game, a great hybrid of RPG, action and adventure. The whole series is characterized by its great emotional, intellectual, moral, entertainment, narrative and even philosophical content, expressed in the many stories of and dialogues by the many characters. It has heart and artistic integrity, which very few games have. I don't play many games, only 2 per year on average, so I tend to make sure whichever game I pick counts. L.A. Noire was another fabulous character-driven story and gaming experience which I well enjoyed recently. Sadly Team Bondi - the developer's company - is no more.

Back to ME3, the only element which didn't quite work for me - and I guess many of us - is the ending(s). The rest is spot on. While the decision scene in the Citadel was somewhat profound, the endings leave to be desired. I'll  comment on what I think didn't quite work first, then make some suggestions about what should or could be addressed.

Here we go:

I understand - and agree with the fact that - the endings were meant to be of epic consequence due to the nature and magnitude of the battle - man fighting gods type of scenario - and that they would be bittersweet, with strong possibility of the hero dying, since sacrifice is a central theme in ME... but HOPE also, I find, is another central theme and the endings 'feel' void of hope, fails to inspire hopeful thoughts.
Maybe it's because of the way the endings are presented, were executed from script to screen... which leads me to my next thought.

The epic consequence is portrayed so vaguely and briefly that it creates confusing thoughts, mixed feelings and lack of closure, especially for the gamers who did play the whole series and know the story and character details well.  Imagine watching a TV show which last 100++ hours and you are given an ending which wraps it all up (after Shepard made his choice in the Citadel) in about 5 min.

So while I wouldn't want or recommend to change the endings as they are, and no one here is necessarily asking for happy Disney-like ones, I think many of us are saying and agreeing that the indoctrination theory would work and fit in rather well. Why? The existing endings would then still remain valid, would make sense.

As a DLC, the indoc. theory can naturally resume the story of Shepard from when awakening in the London rubble - assuming he/she passed the indoctrination test - to go complete the mission, if that's what needs to follow. That would make a lot of sense and could be compelling as an overall result. The choices given by the child feel much like an indoctrination test on Shepard, on the gamers. That's why it's having such a powerful effect; for some, visceral.

Whatever BioWare decides to do,
PLEASE AVOID PLOTHOLES AND BREVITY where unwarranted.

We don't necessarily need to be spoonfed every detail -- open for interpretation can work great and self-realization on the part of the viewer can be rewarding indeed -- but when the given details don't coherently and meaningfully connect with one another, it becomes a bit of a mess and can't be taken seriously.

Plothole examples which perhaps could be addressed in DLCs or patches:

- One of the most flagrant plotholes in any of the available endings is, for instance how did Liara who was on my Shepard's squad got to the Normandy?!

- Next is, what are the chances of the Normandy crash-landing on an Earth-like planet in the Galaxy?! Very slim. Could it be an unknown planet in the Sol system? They couldn't have used the Mass Relay, could they?

- Everyone coming out of Normandy seems indifferent about what just took place back there on Earth and the Citadel, which makes us wonder: do they care about Shepard? esp. the love interest? no mourning?

- For a series which relied upon and successfully portrayed romantic and emotional content, not having any type of closure for Shepard's love interest seems very odd.

- Another plothole is to do with mass relay. If I recall well, in a previous ME game, Harbinger mentioned if a Mass Relay is destroyed, it creates a massive explosion in that system. So with all the Relays exploding, a lot of life and planets would have been destroyed as a result...? That happens in all endings. A dreadful thought and 'ending?' therefore, not hopeful at all, it feels like failure to Shepard's cause and the mission. No victory possible even though we are treated with a final scene of the Stargazer which feels disconnected, easy way out and contrived.

- With all the Mass Relays gone, all the species gathered around Earth, in the Sol system, for the final fight are stranded. Where do they go live? What resources are around for them to survive? Does that lead to chaos?


That's all I can think of for now. Considering the above comments, here are some suggestions therefore:

(a) consider adopting the indoc. theory, which would imply the endings were hallucinations - results of indoctrination - and as such, the endings will make a lot of sense and story can seamlessly continue onward,
( then use that oppotunity to conclude this amazing chapter in the Shepard story (if you wish to end Shepard's story) in a sensical and meaningful way -- not having Shepard simply blow the whole galaxy away
© include his/her love-interest character in a scene that brings closure to their relationship story -- because we are all wondering what was the whole point of starting a romance which beautifully turned into 'I love you' in ME3 to then see it have no consequence or payoff in the ending
(d) please avoid plotholes so that the meaning and profoundness of the, any, ending isn't diluted or cannot be discredited by them, plotholes
(d) make the gamers feel they made a difference, somehow, in the end. While sacrifice is a central theme of the story, hope however has played an important role. In fact, it's been the driven force for Shepard. The current endings with the implication of the whole galaxy exploding due to the destruction of mass relays and another implication of many species stranded around Earth with no place to go are hopeless. It's a failure in the end, not victory.


Again thank you for listening.

EDIT 1: Grammar
EDIT 2: Some more thoughts added

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 18 mars 2012 - 01:47 .