7052 réponses à ce sujet

[JJ436]

>>>3 ENDINGS THAT WE EXPECTED AND WANTED<<<

It sounds like many people want to see Tali's face so I'm saying do that for one of the good endings if you romance her. But no most important issue is the endings. Scrap the kid/catalyst and make 3 endings or so that are vastly different. Okay maybe one ending can be the mass relays blow up and earth is destroyed. We'll say thats one of the bad endings. Another one maybe Sheperd dies but the galaxy is still united and we get to see clips of some of the choices we made during the trilogy actually made an impact in the end. Say the Krogan are now allies with the Turians or maybe even see Shiala, she doesn't even need voice acting. Stuff like that is what we want and I would like to see a funeral for Commander Sheperd with everyone there. If not a funeral at least see people celebrating and thanking Sheperd. Another ending maybe Sheperd lives, the choices you make should have an impact on this, maybe he lives but sacrafices something in order to live, say its the regenade ending. This is what I expected and I feel like you cheaped out on us here. The rest of the game doesn't compare to the end, sure there are sill tiny bits that I thought was out of place, but I can overlook that because the game was so great. I felt like a cheap way to end the game and ship it for sale in all honesty.

Join the fight! 
http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3

[Versidious]

ezln wrote...

Here are my suggestions; I hope Bioware really is listening!

I want my Shepard to wake up, being either indoctrinated, synthesized, or not-indoctrinated depending on the choice, and then finish the game accordingly. And by "finish" I want there to be a significant amount of endings with actual variety. Sad endings where the reapers win and the universe is doomed. Happy endings where the reapers lose and Miranda has your babies. And a bunch of in-between or just different endings depending on the choices you made.

I think it would be awesome to have an epic last battle, where you fight the Reapers and are aided by all of the fleets you recruited to help you. Or, if you're indoctrinated, you fight WITH the Reapers and fight against those fleets.

I want there to be an epilogue, that re-tells the story of my Shepard from the first game, goes over the choices I made, and shows what happened because of them.

I don't want the question to be "how did Mass Effect 3 end?" I want it to be "how did YOUR Mass Effect 3 end?"

Miranda can't have kids. At least, not naturally. It's on a dossier in the Lair of the Shadowbroker DLC.  :-(

[Xena In Heels]

If you want to reward those with high EMS scores by showing companions alive, why not show them alive on Earth with the other soldiers who were fighting? That is perhaps what is so frustrating-the fix is so simple. Show me all my buddies celebrating. Hell even kill off a few. I'm even ok with Joker and the Normandy crew being confused as to what the rainbow explosion was and making a run for it. But there is no way a single member of my squad should be on the Normandy when the battle on Earth is ongoing. 

The ending wouldn't have been great with these fixes, but it would have been bearable.So fix that and give us some add-on content for what happens next. Who is pulling my broken Shep out of the rubble?

Modifié par Xena In Heels, 04 avril 2012 - 09:21 .

[medusa_hair]

How about a second romance option for straight FemShep with no previous romances? Currently it's only Kaidan. Not exactly variety, though he's okay. Not sure how hard it would be to add James to the romance roster, but he does enough flirting already...probably could just add the "commitment" scene and the "let's get it on" scene. :-)

[pikey1969]

The thread I created for it is here.

Dear Bioware:

After my first playthrough during the first week of release, I only just managed to finish my second completionist
playthrough. And I have 'narrowed' my final thoughts/dissatisfactions with the endings down to four main points.

• Normandy's Fate
• The Mass Relays
• The Choices & The Catalyst
• Your management of PR pre/post-release

1. Normandy's Fate

I assume this was a result of budget/time constraints or just a purely incidental but equally horrible oversight. I think there have been enough complaints regarding how the normandy wound up where it did, and especially the crew that were magically aboard it. I am sure this will definitely be one of those things you will address in the upcoming 'clarification' content. So... I am not going to dwell on this very much.  

2. The Mass Relays

I fully appreciate HOW you came to the decision to destroy the Mass Relays. The Mass Relays, along with the citadel, are figurative and literal shackles of the reapers and their cycles. Not only do they ensure that any civilization that reaches space-faring age develops along the technological and possibly political paths the Reapers desire, they also ensure that all space faring civilizations are linked and easy to reach for the harvesting season. The Mass Relays and the citadel are as much part of the same evil that the players are fighting as the reapers themselves. Therefore logically, it does makes sense that these relays are 'defeated' along with the reapers at the end.

However, the mass relays are also an integral part (could not emphasis 'integral' enough) of the universe that you've created and had your audience fall in love with throughout the series. It really should have been very apparent to you as an important factor that gave you serious pause when making this decision (perhaps it was). Without a single indicator as to what the consequences of this will be after the fact, your audience is only left to assume the worst of the very universe and its characters (races) that they've come to love, and most definitely signalled the end of the Mass Effect universe that was built around the mass relays, the core fabric that glued together the universe as the fans knew it. This was personally the BIGGEST punch in the gut as a fan of the series for me, and one of the components of the conclusion that really should have not been left to the audiences' imagination/despair.

I've heard that the reason why you handled the endings the way you did was because you wanted things to be left to open to interpretation. And there's certainly something to be said for leaving certain things unanswered, and leaving it to the imagination of the audience. The spinning spindle at the end of the movie Inception for example is a recent and a very eloquent example of this. However, the conclusion that ME3 provides doesn't leave the audience dwelling on their interpretations of the story, but instead, leaves the audience QUESTIONING the story itself. There are certainly merits to inciting open-interpretation and provoking the audience's imagination instead of trying to slap answers on everything. Mass Effect 3's conclusion was an example of doing anything BUT that.

3. The Choices/The Catalyst

They each on their own make sense and arguably work, but they did not work for me because of the way the catalyst was implemented (more on that below), the destruction of the relays in every scenerio (as mentioned above), a certain level of disconnect between everything the players have done up until that point, and the fact that they're all very... very... grim and offer very little sense of hope, not just specifically to the Mass Effect universe that the audience had come to love, but simply as a solution to problems.

Even without the destruction of the relays in consideration, all of the three endings are very morally ambiguous, dark, and/or offer very-little resolution to the main-conflict that the players have been fighting throughout the three games.

Syntheis.. the concept of changing every organic being in the galaxy and turning them to synthetics, whether that is truly is the genetic destiny or not, is a very questionable one. It's a solution that is incredibly ambiguous from a moral/ethical stand point. Albeit fascinating, when it's one of THREE definitive options, where the other two are even more 'crappy,' I can't help but think if there's some crazy religious fanatic in your team (of the technological variety) pushing an agenda or if whoever was in charge was smoking copious amounts of funny substances (I hear canada is lenient on pot ;p).

The control option is seemingly the least destructive option. Shepard sacrifices him/herself to save the universe without making any destructive changes to it (other then the destruction of the relays which seems odd to me, considering the reapers aren't being removed). However, for anyone thinking even 5 years ahead, it also offers very little resolution to the conflict. The very beings that can choose to destroy the universe at their whim (reapers), are still being preserved, with very little assurance of Shepard's 'essence' holding them back for anything longer than the immediate future. Even the catalyst's own words are ambiguous about this. The catalyst tells shepard that everything that made Shepard as people know him/her will be gone, but for the control he/she exercises over the reapers. Not only does that bear little hope for the future of the galaxy, it also essentially offers zero-closure on the resolution of the conflict.

The destruction option does provide closure, however at the cost of genocide of an entire race, which also happens to be the one true hope of combating what the 'inevitable' technological singularity that the catalyst says caused all of this in the first place. It's an acceptable ending of its own that does provide closure and doesn't force a very questionable philosophy, except for the genocide part. When that's arguably the least evil of the three choices... it's saying something.

I understand the notion of wanting to place significant consequences/thought to all of the options, and making them 'meaningful'. However, the 'weights' of the decisions presented here also feel arbitrary and feel forced purely for the benefit of satsifying that notion, rather than them being appropriate to the overall narrative. 

The truth behind the origin of the reapers, creations of a being (the catalyst) that has seen/been through a technological singularity, is actually a very cool idea for a conflict set in a space sci-fi setting. Even the idea that the purposed/enforced solution by the catalyst was simply to 'harvest' advanced civilizations periodically before they reach yet another technological singularity to preserve order of the universe (something that many fans have been ragging on) is actually cool. That is actually one thing you can blame the fans for not really trying to accept/understand (then again, I also feel that the fan's true source of anger was not really this, and in consideration of the context, they’re kind of right to). Sure, it's 'flawed' logic, but if it wasn't flawed, they wouldn't be the 'bad guy' would they, and Shepard wouldn't be fighting this war in the first place.

However, the conclusions (the choices) that are provided by the catalyst, ultimately feel too forced/contrived in execution, and provide very limited and almost purely nihilistic set of consequences for the universe. The fact that the answers to basically to a very high-level concept of solving the problem of 'technological singularity' and the question of 'how the future of the entire universe should be determined' are narrowed to merely three choices, seem very forced. They also ultimately do not really feel releavant to what the overall narrative has been about, which was never really to answer the 'question of universe, life, and everything.' It was always about fighting the galaxy's imminent doom presented by an unfathomable force. Perhaps it would have been more wise to at least provide an option to avoid trying to answer the philosphical question presented by the catalyst and just the immeidate threat of the reapers. Perhaps allow Shepard to be the voice of reason and hope against the Catalyst's logic, and postpone this act of judgment (and tie EMS ratings as a time-factor that allows Shepard to do this). I don't know, what I do know is the ending options that are given, just do not feel right at all, not for Mass Effect, and not for the high-level concept you're introducing.

Ultimately, and with all due respect, while Mass Effect may be a fantastic/ground-breaking achievement in storytelling in videogames, it is still just a video game that hasn't quite 'earn' the conclusion it tries to provide. When Mass Effect makes the jump from 'fighting mysterious evil entities threatening the universe' to trying to ANSWER the question of the 'end of man?' (a solution to technological singularity), a topic just as morally/philosophically charged as the ancient and still disputed question of the 'origin of man'... something feels wrong. I want to note that I truly respect and fully support your decision to introduce and tackle such a thought-provoking subject in your game. However, you also trivialize the subject immediately after introducing it by narrowing down 'the answer' into three very contrived/flawed choices. If you want to tackle subjects and discussions like these, you also have to do it right and do it justice.

I don't always believe in happy endings, and certainly not for the story you told here. You've done a beautiful job building up the last moments of the game as being the last moments of Shepard's journey. But when the outcome of his/her journey (and ultimately your fans' journey with you) are these... well you can't blame the fans for feeling betrayed.

4. Your management of PR pre/post-release

At the time of the game's release and in the weeks leading up to it, you probably did not expect this kind of reaction at all. I don't blame you at all, and I can fully empathize with this. It's been clear to me that you were blindsided by the vitriol from the very fans you painstakingly labored to create this game for. The only words I can think of to describe your current circumstance are 'unfortunate' and ‘heartbreaking’.

However, there are still some aspects of the way you conducted yourself through this that I must criticize as a fan.

Pre-Release. When pouring your heart/soul into something you love, it's easy to get overwhelmed by the enthusiasm you have for the project as well as the prospect of releasing it to the very fans that have also poured the same level of heart/soul into your products. But there's something to be said for self-restraint. 

These days, many people (especially fans) criticize the lack of soul and truthfulness in how developers conduct themselves in today's gaming culture and their tendency to be too-calculated and over filtered by the PR. However, it should be noted that all of that is for a good reason. A lot of Casey's pre-release statements/interviews were sorely lacking the level of consideration and caution that should be expected of any representative discussing an unreleased project. It seems cruel to criticize someone merely for being enthusiastic about the current project of his team, but it should be noted that there are repercussions from going overboard with the fans who are eagerly waiting in the dark picking up everything you say with the same level of if not higher level of enthusiasm and anticipation.

The post-release reactions, which grew greatly over time, were probably unexpected for you, and perhaps even a little unfair. However, there's still something to be said for humility and truly respecting your fans. The round-about/dismissive tweets and, more significantly, indirect but rather offensive re-tweets from some of the high-level members of your team were not at all in good taste and did not help your situation. Some of the articles/tweets that were re-tweeted by your staff were no less distasteful/offensive than some of the more distasteful/out-of-line fans themselves. You should not have stooped the same level as the unsavory fans or the distasteful/dismissive media that engaged in the sh*t storm. Your high-level employees at this point must surely understand that they're public figures, and what they say in public WILL represent the company and be subjected to the fan's perception of you, a crucial thing to remember especially when there's a problem like this.

I also feel that your moderating team who were handling the brunt of the backlash (and did an admirable job for the most part) did not maintain a truly 'neutral' stance through this crisis, and this was quite damaging. Many members of the moderating team clearly vocalized their own stances (aka "Pro-ending") regarding the very subject matter they were attempting to moderate and filter to be relayed on to the development team. Perhaps this was an attempt to seem more human and honest, but it really did not help your cause in containing the situation at all. It only fueled the notion that truly no one at Bioware was interested in listening to the fans or that they cared (the truth which I am sure and hope was anything but). 

It did seem however, that the most of the core-creative staff eventually went into a state of complete silence once the backlash grew to be something more than your usual post-release whinefest, and I can only hope it's because you really started taking the magnitude and the validity of the lashback/complaints seriously.

///

This post might seem a little too late and too long (I am sure not many will read this in its entirety), but I still thought they were worth typing out. For those few that did read, thank you. And I can only hope this message reaches those at Bioware.

Bioware, you have my sincere thanks for the Mass Effect series, which was nearly* perfect, and will most certainly be remembered as an important landmark in the history of the RPG genre. I am rather disheartend that such an important/brilliant trilogy did not quite get the ending it deserved, and will most likely be tarnished for it. Based on the quality of the rest of the series (and the endings of the last two ME2 games), I can only assume there were some factors outside of your control that resulted in what happened to ME3. I hope the fan movement gave you more leverage in that.  You also have my condolences for your current predicament, and I look forward to seeing your answer to this situation in April as I hope for the best. 

Lastly, I am sure you'll definitely think back to this situation as you go forward on to your other future projects, and I really hope you will take away and learn from this situation rather than simply trying to ignore/forget it.

[LiarasShield]

Linkenski wrote...

I don't really care what people say about what happens when a mass relay is destroyed. Yeah i saw it in Arrival, but i think they are more likely disabled/shut down correctly (though there are explosions :S) but i think the main issue i have with the ending is, that there's no way to prevent the relays from being destroyed. Yeah i know it's a plot device for the Adam and Eve ending to happen, but that (and the "synthetic kill all organics" assumption) were the main two things that completely ruined the ending for me.

You did see the explosions outward right from each relay point in the galaxy and trying to ignore fact that each destroy relay can destroy a entire solar system is even more crazy then some of us being so focused on the indoctrination theory I mean hell it would've been better for shepard to let the reapers win because they won't destroy the galaxy and some life will still be left over

[LiarasShield]

I also feel that this was a great tribute

[Akhara]

Just a recommendation...I have read dozens of articles and watched countless videos regarding this topic. The best one I have come across, and I highly recommend everyone watch this, is the following:



It is by far the most articulate depiction of why fans are disappointed in the ending from a narrator's perspective.

To summarise:
-The ending of the game (starting at hologram kid) results in a loss of Genre, Character Focus, and Central Conflict
-the loss of these three conditions summates to an overall loss of NARRATIVE COHERENCE

Suggestions:
-lose hologram kid (unsalvagable)
-keep it simple
-focus on characters (people need closure in regards to squadmates/romance)
-get the mood right (dark and dreary does not guarantee successful)

I agree with this author's critique of a new 'clarification' ending. Unfortunately, I believe the ending is so broken it is near impossible to salvage (if you pull that off Bioware I will shut my fat mouth for decades). The main reason is that 'clarifying' and already bad ending does not really make it a good ending. People are giving you the freedom to change the ending, and we will love you for it. If anyone post ending change makes fun of you for changing the ending and deem that you 'compromised artistic integrity by caving into the core fanbase'.....watch as those individuals get thrashed by nerdrage. Everyone here LOVES your game and we know you can pull off one of the greatest ends to one of the greatest series.

Modifié par Akhara, 05 avril 2012 - 02:32 .

[PoisonMushroom]

I'm not even sure this will ever get read, but I thought I might as well add to the pile.
Any hangups with the rest of the game are minor, and aside from the ending this was a really good send off for the trilogy. Here are my likes and dislikes regarding the ending (London onwards), in a slightly disorganized and poorly written way.

Like:
- All the hints at indoctrination (true or not)
- Final moments with Anderson
- Elements of the conversation with Illusive Man
- That the ending wasn't ridiculously happy (although it was ridiculously bleak, which might not actually been any better)

Disliked
- Lack of impact of choices from the rest of the trilogy (this was handled game quite well throughout the rest of the game, but didn't seem to mean anything at the time it should have meant the most)
- A feeling of disconnection between the army/fleet you'd raised and yourself in the final battle.
- The reliance on too much speculation re. end choices. I wasn't sure I even trusted the starchild, even though shepard did.
- I found that I made my final choice (destroy) based on what fit best thematically with the rest of the game, rather than, because I thought it was the best choice to make. I never had this feeling in the rest of the game.
- Plotholes, lacked coherence.
- Endings were all pretty much the same in terms of the cutscene
- Opened more questions than it answered.
- Pacing was off, big time. I would have rather have said goodbye to members of my crew during an amazing battle, rather than another walky area.
- The tone. At first the ending had sort of tricked me into feeling happy because tonally it felt like a victory and then I began to realise how screwed everyone was.
- Didn't like that I was about 2 MP games away from getting the best ending, but didn't realise because the EMS bar was full.

Tuchunka was absolutely amazing. I felt the weight of every decision I'd made leading up to it. It allowed me to make more during it. I learnt more about the krogan. The pacing and tone were perfect... etc The ending didn't offer anything similar to this.

Thanks for making an amazing trilogy otherwise.

[forthary]

You know, I've been thinking about something unique.

The Mass Effect series is far from perfect.  Even the original one had a few flaws and gaps, and I believe Mass Effect 3 is no exception.  Since Commander Shepard's story ends in Mass Effect 3, I have a feeling that the game will still have a few gaps, plotholes and mysteries that have yet to be solved.

What I would love to see, even if it is *shudders* PAID downloadable content is a Mass Effect 3 game editor.  This editor would take things to the next level for Mass Effect 3; players would be able to design their own missions, create or add onto existing lore, make cutscenes, and do boatloads more!  Even if the editor was limited to creating stuff that happens after the 'so-called' ending to Mass Effect 3 is released, it would still provide a great way to increase replayability and satisfaction with the game.

I realize that you no doubt have a lot on your plate right now, developers.  But if anything, this is a great way to let the players pick up the slack on whatever you may not have perfected.  If your wondering if such a thing would actually be a good idea to give players, well...just look at the Elder Scrolls series, and maybe some other games that have editors included in them.  The potental is there...the question is, "Are you ready to unleash it for Mass Effect 3?" 

[Akhara]

Also, here is a followup response by this great individual in regards to the indoctrination theory. This is definitely worth the watch and far supersedes the quality of any article or youtube video posted thus far.

[krukow]

Just open up the endings. Give us options. Let there be happy endings, sad endings, and stuff in between.

Other than that I can't give you too much feedback because everything was so well done. I mean, everything. The body of this game was better than I could have imagined. I just want the ending to be something worth playing towards. The rest is perfect. Literally.

[PhantomSun]

Add The Other Thirteen Unique Endings we were told this game had.

One of them should be Triumphant Shepard endings of ME1 and ME2

I DO NOT accept -- and you shouldn't either --
that,after being told that ME3 has Sixteen Unique Endings, I would only find TWO -- I'm being generous when I say two -- with both leading to Shepard being either dead or dying.

Honestly, there's only ONE ending for ME3 so telling us that ME3 has Sixteen Unique Endings is like saying ME2 had more than 100 unique endings.

ME2 has two endings:
Succeed but Shepard died again which in the long run means that the current Cycle has ended
Succeed with zero to many losses.

Variations of who and how many squad member(s) died in the latter case DOES NOT count as more than 100 unique endings.

ME3 has two as well:
Succeed but Earth Stands.
Succeed but Earth and/or Galaxy is Destroyed

Synergy, Control, Destroy and the various colored effects on the Earth / Galaxy DOES NOT count as Sixteen Unique Endings.  And in the long run, this Cycle is dead either way.  The epilogue only made it seem as if some unknown race far in the future found Liara's Time Capsle.

Wanting to emphasis on "sacrifice" DOES NOT justify killing Shepard off as the only way to win especially when there are so many other variables that can be and should've been used.  Particularly your squad and Major Coats.

I'd like to believe that, with a high EMS score, your Squad and Coats aren't stupid enough to be charging directly at the beam *right behind or in front of you in a single file line* to be shot at like fish in a barrel instead of splitting up and heading for the beam from different directions so that at least one of them would make it there either with you or in case you don't make it.  I'd like to believe that with a high enough EMS score that they're able to make it.

I'd also like to believe that they're not stupid enough to walk away with a "Oh Shepard can take care of this, there's no husks in the Citadel anyways" mentality especially after Shepard had gotten nearly KO'd by a Reaper and limping very slowly towards the beam. 

At the very least Coats should've made it in time to shoot The Illusive Man.  He's not a Turian, he knows how to duck.

Another thing, Anderson and Hackett are able to get Shepard on the Radio, why can't Shepard's Squad do the same?!

If the reason for killing off Shepard was for want of a story outside of Shepard's, well, the Suikoden series used different main characters for every one of their games with zero problems.  If you needed something that's going on just a few years after, Suikoden II gave you the option of having the main character of Suikoden I as an optional side character and Suikoden III didn't do anything more than provide a brief mention unless you want to
put on a dramatic performance on a stage.  Besides, Shepard could always pull a Cartman with a "NO!  Screw you, I'm going home."

Modifié par PhantomSun, 05 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Haley]

Personally, I feel that all the focus on player decisions not affecting the ending is overshadowing the more basic issue--the ending is poorly written and executed. Granted, player choice is important. But one ending everyone gets, an ending that makes sense, fits into the ME universe, and provides closure, is far superior to any number of endings that are rushed or nonsensical.

So what I'd like to see is a focus on narrative coherence (yes, I'm ripping that from the amazing video by mrbtongue). Don't try to explain away what happened with the catalyst--just cut it completely out. Start at the point where Shep gets hit by the lazer, and re-write the ending. It doesn't have to be long, and it doesn't have to be complicated. All that's really necessary is for Shep to activate the crucible, and preferably face Harbinger (after all, that's the moment everyone was waiting for). Then we can have a nice cinematic that shows the galaxy begining to regroup/rebuild, if Shep was succesful, and hopefully some Dragon Age-style epilogue bits that tell us what happened to the important characters.

As for player chioces affecting the end, there's no need to go overboard with this one. A couple of possible endings (Shep fails, Shep wins but dies, Shep wins and lives) are all that's needed. It would be nice to see some of our choices reflected in the final battle scenes--maybe not whether you found dinasaurs for the Krogan to ride, but more telling details like the presence/absense of the rachni or merc bands during the fight. I can understand why that might be a tall order, though--it seems like it would require creating a lot of different cinematics. A verbal mention of said assets might be more reasonable.

I could list a hundred things I'd like to see in a new ending, but really I don't need much. Something that makes sense, the possibility of happier/sadder endings, and closure information on the characters--I'd be satisfied with that. Or with any ending where the crucible does one thing and one thing only: kills reapers.

Oh, and ditch that awful "buy DLC" prompt at the end. That was just plain insulting.

Modifié par Haley, 05 avril 2012 - 03:19 .

[Argetfalcon]

More than one ending where Shepard lives (saving the geth was too difficult to just throw them away in destroy and i spent so long getting joker with edi). A happy ending is a good way to reward fans for so many hours of play.

personally don't like the indoctrination theory, (WHY DO PEOPLE WANT TO SEE SHEPARD INDOCTRINATED)

get rid of catalyst kid, seriously just recon it, don't try to work over it

Put more effort into Tali's face, or get rid of photoshoped picture (don't care how hot some people say she is That was just LAZY) Again RECON IT. (And fire who ever thought that was a good idea)

Maybe a mission where Shepard find a special device that makes it so the Mass Relays don't blow up.

[Argetfalcon]

little blue children

[alliance4g63]

Damisis wrote...

There is much to say, but I want to focus on holes in the plot.

1) Reapers:
The Reapers were the monsters of the universe. Their presence was always intimidating, what they had to say was always super cool, they were always so melevolent and spoke down to you as a lesser being. That is my biggest problem with the Catalyst. Sovereign tells you in ME that each Reaper is an independent nation, free of weakness. Harbinger speaks to you with his own personality, and his own motives, makes his own threats-yet the Reapers are just being controlled??? Why would they have personality and motives of their own if they were just tools being controlled by the Catalyst? It just doesn't compute to me. In ME3, each Reaper is NOT independent, and Harbinger doesn't speak a single word to you. Last about the Reaps, is the 'Solution to Chaos.' My problem with this is the obvious redundancy of synthetics killing organics. Think of how much more sense it would make if they stuck with what was hinted at in ME2. This would be the reason for the cycle, if it were up to me; the cycle would exist so that the reapers could harvest organics as a form of reproduction. Why not? It's something all races do, something we all can relate too, and it would make sense why they don't harvest ALL life, because organic life is a renewable resource. Another variable we can all understand and relate to. This would make perfect sense, and wouldn't over complicate things. There would be no need for a Catalyst. Harbinger, the already established antagonist, would still be a viable and bad ass foe.

2) The Citedel
I'll make this quick, in ME you find that the Protheans from Illos altered the keepers to not receive the signal from the reaps to activate the citidel relay, thus delaying the invasion. A huge point in the game was Sovereign gaining control of the citidel to try activating it. Why would any of this be necessary if the Catalyst is in the citidel? He could just activate it himself. Idk, if just seems really unlikely that the Catalyst wouldn't do this.

3) Dark Energy
This last part is just my opinion of what would have been epic for the Crucible, and what would have made a better catalyst. Nay sayers, this is just some fan canon. Remember the star the Hastrom orbited in ME2? It was being drained of dark energy or something? Anyways, what if the reason that was happening is that the Protheans had built the catalyst, which is a power source which utilizes dark energy as a weapon, and once they realized they'd failed to build the crucible, set it to start charging up in 50,000 years so it would be ready for the Reaper invasion. It would make perfect sense, it would be why Hastroms star was dying and it would also play in to that mission on ME2, and could continue on the Rannoch mission. Say, once you either kill the Geth, or the Quarians, or unite them, they give you the info from that mission which leads you to the catalyst. Now, going out on a limb and maybe thinking of Independence Day too much, say that the crucible, now equiped with the catalyst can now fire a sort of dark energy EMP that overloads systems that function on dark energy, like the Reapers!!! Ha, this would allow Alliance forces to knock out their shields, and with the combined fire of the fleets, finally they could get some damage in with out the reapers havin their epic kenetic barriers. Idk, I just thought that would make a lot more sense, stay within the established story, and everyone would be happy. Tell me what you think.

And Bioware, ME3 was an awesome game, I really hope when this whole ending rage blows over, that credit is given where it is due. 99% of ME3 was incredible, but the ending was just like someone pissing on my hush puppies XP

I know much has been said about what is wrong with the game but reading your three points makes me realize more and more how bad of a game ME3 was in respect to the established story.

The only thing I don't agree with is the 99% of ME3 was incredible. The combat was great but that is all. IMO of course.
I also have a laundry list of issues with the game.

I was looking forward to playing through all of the games again and again.

I was looking forward to playing multi-player.

I was looking forward to new DLC.

That desire is now gone.

This is so me. I really thought ME was going to be the game of forever. I planned on doing multiple FULL playthroughs before the ME3 debacle. Now I am pretty much lost and the only thing I can look forward to is The Witcher 2 in a few weeks.

[razviolet]

I will make my opinion short and to the point on what I was personally looking for or forward to in the endings aftermath. Maybe you can apply some or all of these thoughts to whatever you guys are brainstorming up there.

Any current ending could apply to the final stargazer clip but its function was utterly useless other than saying "life goes on." There was no satisfactory conclusion to Shepard's tale, our Shepard's tale that we as fans were promised a finale to. We know nothing about what happened to the races we brought together or even to our all important squad mates. I'm not talking about looking hundreds or hundreds of thousands of years into the future like stargazer. I'm thinking only in the span of a few months or better yet a few years when things are turning back to a semblance of normalcy and the galaxy is in its first stages of recovery.

I want to see the tension or lack of between species. I want to know what our squad mates are doing with their lives and how they are coping without...or with Shepard. Maybe even what the council or whatever the galactic leadership during the recovery looks like. I can guess from these things alone that "life will go on" yet it would be so much more personal. That kind of ending would satisfy me and would make everything I did feel as if it mattered in some small way to the specific people and species I cared about.

The only other overall thing that bothered me was no matter what an unsustainable amount of life is stranded in one system and the relays are destroyed. Everyone will die no matter what and ending by crash landing three squadmates on a random planet was just as bad. I felt everything I had ever done through the course of the games was thrown into a trash compactor where all I could do was stand back and listen to the horrible crunching noise. All I'm looking for is closure to the current galaxy Shepard saved, not the far off 'alien' future...leave that for speculation.

Modifié par razviolet, 05 avril 2012 - 05:48 .

[Reindeer Ninja]

Bioware, honestly, I don't know why you've asked what we'd like to change about your game.

You KNOW how to make great games, you've shown us that you know how to do this many, many times. I've played all your games since KOTOR, which was in fact the sole reason (at the time) I switched from PS2 to XBOX, so I know you know how to make good games.

You've shown us even in Mass Effect 3 itself that you know how to write amazing story lines with all the loose ends tied up and a real sense of closure, but still managed to keep the possibility of imagining what happens next open (in Mordin's and the Wrex's storyline).

What I'm driving at here is that you are professionals at what you do, not only professionals but award winning professionals. You've made some of the best games out there. So YOU know exactly what's wrong with the ending, and don't even try hiding behind the artistic excuse because it's absolute bullsh*t.

Why ask the community what they want fixed about a game that you intentionally broke? It doesn't make sense. But as you ARE asking, I'll tell you what the community wants and don't worry it's not a big ask. It just wants you to put the same care and dedication into the end of ME3 that you've put into every game you've brought out to date.

It's like in Jade Empire where everyone you fight tells you you're amazing but it's like there's a weakness in your style that they can't quite figure out cause you're master trained you like that. We know you're amazing Bioware, so when there is a weakness in your game (end of ME3), regardless of the fact that the rest of the game is amazing, we will spot it. Only this time we know who your master is (EA) and we know why they've put the weakness in your game (to sell more DLC).

[Alez Zinai]

It could be simple:
1) All after Shep was hit by Harbinger beam happens in his/her mind (it could be indoc or simple dream after all stress he/she endured) - so Shep is MIA on London battlefield
2) All of the Assets (Edit: including Normandy team) he/she collected begin The Actual Final Push For Citadel+Crucible (it could be directed by player or simple short movies)
2.1) Edit: TIM Last stand on Citadel+Crucible
3) Citadel+Crucible does its magic work (maybe something like in ME1 - all Reapers loose their barriers)
4) Victory fleet clears Earth from Reapers and moves to other homeworlds/galaxy so the War continues
5) ...? little blue children/home on Rannoch/meeting with Garrus dad

Modifié par Alez Zinai, 05 avril 2012 - 10:13 .

[Jassu1979]

An open ending in itself needn't be a bad thing - nor do I feel that it's necessary or even desirable to clear up every mystery. (Just think of the midichlorians in the Star Wars universe...)

Personally, I feel that Tali's face could never live up to most people's expectations. Part of her charm and mystery is NOT seeing her face, allowing our imagination to fill in the blanks.
People were disappointed with that tiny picture? Imagine the backlash if they actually showed her, and you found that she did not live up to your expectations.

Our imagination can achieve things that no design team ever could: create a custom-tailored, "perfect" Tali Zora for each of us.

Now, as for the ending:

There are still people out there who feel that "dark" equals "profound" - yet in itself, a bleak ending is neither more realistic nor more artistic by default. Quite the contrary.

Sometimes, a bleak open ending can work pretty well, provided that it is in line with the rest of whatever storyline preceded it. When Donald Sutherland's pod copy starts screaming at the end of "Body Snatchers", that's a pretty awesome last shot. Or when Leo DiCaprio's character leaves the room at the end of "Inception", and the last thing the audience sees is the spinning top, without actually knowing whether it will stop or not, that is at least a potentially bleak open ending that let's us fill in the blanks.

The problem with the ME3 ending, then, is that ALL of its options are equally devastating - an absolute no-go in a game that's all about making choices and seeing vastly different outcomes come to fruition.
The creators repeatedly used the word "bittersweet" - yet there is nothing particularly sweet about any of it. Mass relay explosions are a big deal, as established by "the Arrival", and as shown by the fact that the shockwave even catches up with the Normandy in FTL-mode, nearly ripping it apart.
Even if we completely ignore that these explosions cause more damage than the Reapers ever could have hoped to achieve, that does not exactly improve the situation. In that case, we are faced with a victory fleet that's pretty much stranded in the devastated Sol system. Wrex will never see his children; Tali has lost her home world a second time; Legion sacrificed itself for nothing; and the formerly united races will tear each other apart as their food and resources run out.

That's not bittersweet. That's beyond bitter.

See, such nihilist bleakness worked for "Body Snatchers" because it was a bleak, nihilistic film all along.
But I think even in Renegade playthroughs, the "Mass Effect"-series was always about hope in the face of impossible odds, and pushing through no matter what. In ME2, you *could* play the game in a way that saw all of your squat mates (and even yourself) dead - but that was not the only option.

Modifié par Jassu1979, 05 avril 2012 - 10:58 .

[Venturisection]

HAMSTER BALL FOR THE HAMSTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to see it rolling around the ship squeeking in the background and during dialogue!! FTW! 

[masterdark30]

I cant imagine how difficult it must of been trying to come up with an ending to a trilogy like this but in any piece of literature, film it had to come to a point where you could brake it down into its simplist form and say 'so and so (shephard) defeats/ fails to defeat the big evil (reapers). Thats all anyone ever expected and yet it didnt happen.

Honestly while playing on earth when i got to the hub where i could talk to a few companions and holo-call the others (the holo-call was abit of a cop out but i understood the reason behind it) i thought that literally after this section the game was going to end. I thought perhaps there would be a cutscene with Garrus and another companion beside Shephard saying something like 'You ready for this Shephard?' and Shephard replies 'Lets go take back our Galaxy' (or something equal or less cheesy). Then Shephard would grip his rifle (dont know why my shephard has to have a rifle in every cutscene when he never uses one) and sets off towards the beam (sunset) companions/ army behind him, The End. Thankfully the game didnt end there because i tecnhically dont like those sorts of endings but i would of probably accepted it alittle better.

Edit: Now that i think about it thats exactly how The Witcher 2 ended and i loved that game and better yet they're adding up to four hours of content onto their ending due to fan feedback, go figure.

Dragon Age: Origins had the same set up once you secured the gates in Denerim. You were able to talk to your companions one last time before the big final push. Thankfully in that game you got to defeat the big bad evil with a bittersweet ending plus dialogue and charater interaction after you completed it not to mention the scroll text epilogue.This is what Mass effect needed, it came so close to mirroring what made that games end feel so amazing but went off course in the final moments.

I realise that you didnt want to simply do the usual 'save the world' type ending. Which i believe is why we got this, but, Bioware if your listening sequels and more importantly ends to trilogies are not the places to introduce new and 'out there' endings to your games. It didnt work with Dragon Age 2 and it hasnt worked here. The main mistake in both games is the sudden lack of player control. In Dragon Age 2 the narrative hyjacked Hawke forcing him/her to kill all the mages then kill all the templars with a choice of which order would you like to kill them. In Mass effect its Destroy everything, kill your shephard which colour do you like the most.

It goes without question then that the most beloved of your games are the ones that retain player control without sacrificing the narrative. Stop hyjacking our characters! The player needs to at all points be able to say 'No' to a given situation(at the least question it), if not all the time then definately during the more important sections of the game. In Dragon Age i could say no to Morrigan, i could say no to the sacrifice, in Kotor i could say no to turning away from the darkside, in Mass Effect i could say no to the council and saren and in Mass effect 2 i definately said no to the illusive man. In Mass Effect 3 i couldnt say no, i had to follow like a good little sheep because the narrative demanded i did so. Player control = out the window.

Look at the endings of your good games and notice what it was about those that worked so well and why people still talk about them. Yes they're simple and they've been 'done before' in other mediums but hey so has everything else pretty much so it doesnt matter.


I'd also like to throw your attention to Assassins Creed: Brotherhood and how that ended and for you to see how complex that was while staying true to the lore, making its audience ask questions without sacrficing the experience as a whole.

Ok this was longer than i thought i'll post my main suggestions in another reply.

[Versidious]

Jassu1979 wrote...

Personally, I feel that Tali's face could never live up to most people's expectations. Part of her charm and mystery is NOT seeing her face, allowing our imagination to fill in the blanks.
People were disappointed with that tiny picture? Imagine the backlash if they actually showed her, and you found that she did not live up to your expectations.

Our imagination can achieve things that no design team ever could: create a custom-tailored, "perfect" Tali Zora for each of us.

I don't agree...  I read books. I imagine things that are described in the books uniquely. You can describe some things in books which couldn't possibly be adequately portrayed in a film or computer game. But that's because they're books, a unique media form with their own strengths and weaknesses. I don't go to computer games for that same experience, and I think for a majority of gamers, that's true. If it were, people would be complaining that they can see the details on Liara's face, or Garrus', and would rather imagine them for themselves, and instead they should be represented by a roughly humanoid figure. Most of us *want* to see a canon version of a character's face. And we have been. And it was a hurriedly photoshopped stock picture. They want to make Tali look like that? Fine. But they should do it as an in-game model, replete with facial expressions, not as a picture!

[Albax11]

Jassu1979 wrote...
An open ending in itself needn't be a bad thing - nor do I feel that it's necessary or even desirable to clear up every mystery. (Just think of the midichlorians in the Star Wars universe...)

 
Perhaps. Kind of one of the larger issues with the Catalyst. It's an attempt at the last minute to explain the reapers motivations. Something that was more interesting when Reapers just thought "Kill Organics, or they will kill us." 
If that were the case, then they could have been a super advanced synthetic species that took the opposite path of the Geth. (In my playhthrough they brokered peace with the Quarians.) 
Open endings can work, but only if they make sense and give some amount of closure. The original Matrix movie, for example, proves how open endings can work in favour of the franchise. Don't get me started on the two sequels though.

Jassu1979 wrote... 
Personally, I feel that Tali's face could never live up to most people's expectations. 

Perhaps not. But the way Bioware chose to present it, aswell as how rushed the ending felt, especially with the DLC prompt at the end makes it feel somewhat cheap, like cutting corners. If they weren't going to show it with in game assets, they might as well have skipped it. Left it to mystery, as you said. But at the end of the day it is a small matter compared to the convoluted rail-road ending.

Jassu1979 wrote...  
The problem with the ME3 ending, then, is that ALL of its options are equally devastating - an absolute no-go in a game that's all about making choices and seeing vastly different outcomes come to fruition.
That's not bittersweet. That's beyond bitter.

Agreed. It sours the whole series. I don't really feel like replaying any of the previous games if this is how it all ends. The saying that "it's the journey, not the destination" may be true for life. And certainly partially true for stories and games. But this isn't a case of the ending being too dark. The game simply loses all narrative structure in favour of forcing an overly dark and nonsensical ending at us, destroying the world that we have spent three games growing an attachment too. If this were one of the Bad endings, it would be less of an issue but this is the ONLY ending where 16 vastly different ones were promised.
Bioware know how to fix this. The question is if they will choose to. The path is open. Blah blah blah.

Modifié par Albax11, 05 avril 2012 - 01:28 .