Don't bother, this thread was only put up to keep people busy, they didn't listen to a word of our feedback.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
Débuté par
RaenImrahl
, mars 17 2012 03:00
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#6052
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:25
SimplePlan2k8
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I have a lot of feedback I'd like to give but I get the feeling you guys just aren't listening and carrying on with what you were planning to do anyway. For shame BioWare
Anyway if someone is reading this, Kirrahe had such an insignificant role in ME3, why was he blatantly ignored?
As a side note, why did ME3 fail to match up to the previous 2 games in every conceivable way...
Anyway if someone is reading this, Kirrahe had such an insignificant role in ME3, why was he blatantly ignored?
As a side note, why did ME3 fail to match up to the previous 2 games in every conceivable way...
#6053
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:37
zenoxis
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This thread was a colossal waste of time, I can't believe Bioware actually put it up. Just another lie to add to their resume I suppose.
#6054
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:40
Daedalus1773
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Waste of 243 pages of some really excellent ideas.
#6055
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:42
Sicarius07
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SimplePlan2k8 wrote...
Anyway if someone is reading this, Kirrahe had such an insignificant role in ME3, why was he blatantly ignored?
He had some parts in the game, but most of them outside of the Sur'Kesh mission won't be seen by many players. Thane takes his spot saving the Councilor. Wrex/Wreav take his speech on Earth.
One thing that got me, if Kirrahe dies saving the salarian Councilor, Shepard says: "We lost another salarian." No, we didn't lose 'another' nameless salarian. We lost a dedicated soldier, a character as talented as any squadmate through each game. We lost a salarian who promised back-alley support to save the Earth against the wishes of his political leader because it was the right thing to do. We lost a friend.
I am a Kirrahe fan though, so I will admit to bias.
#6056
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:45
tog42
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I agree with the argument that ME3 in it's entirety can be viewed as an ending. As the third part of the trilogy you see story lines from the previous two games being resolved. However it still needs to be complete story in itself which requires a satisfying ending, both for that story and the entire trilogy. The reasons for my displeasure are articulately explained in this article (http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/) and I'll expand on that a little.
Harbinger and the Reapers: As the main antagonist of the trilogy the absence of any confrontation with the Reapers at the end is sorely missed. Harbinger was established as the controlling force behind the Collectors in ME2 and that put him in the story as the voice for the Reapers. I want him to keep smugly telling me how small and inconsequential I am right up until the moment I blow him and the other Reapers straight to hell.
The Illusive Man: TIM is not the antagonist in the story. His presence at the end seemed out of proportion to his importance and he should not be used as a stand in for the Reapers.
While I appreciated mirroring the scene with Saren in ME1 by convincing TIM to end it himself, I don't think he had earned that moment of redemption. I would rather he tried and failed to control the Reapers and only right at the end when he sees the terrible price of his hubris he either kills himself or begs Shepherd to do so.
Final moments: If the goal is to provide a bitter sweet ending then you need to contrast what was saved with what was lost.
The memorial wall on the Normandy was a lovely touch. The final moment in a game where Shepherd dies should be their love interest standing at the wall and touching Shepherd's name (their full name, a chance for the player to see their Shepherd mentioned specifically) where it stands along side all your other shipmates who made the ultimate sacrifice throughout the journey. If still alive, the Vermire survivor has been given command of the Normandy and leads the love interest away from the wall and you get a final beauty shot of the Normandy.
Something like this shows what the victory has cost but that Shepherd and the others will be remembered. Their sacrifice is not in vain as their friends and society now have a chance to continue on.
Choice: What made the ending for ME2 satisfying was you saw the payoff for choices made earlier in the game and continued to make choices with repercussions right up until the very end.
To start with you had the choice of whether to go after your abducted crew straight away or to whether to ensure you were fully prepared. At the beginning of the assault on the Collector Base the Normandy is under attack and if you haven't upgraded ship systems people die. On the base you need to choose squad mates to carry out specific tasks and people will die if you choose poorly.
What makes an RPG is choice. You want to make decisions and see their repercussions. Everything else in the game is just set dressing to give weight to those choices. In ME3 once you're committed to attack the Reapers, that's pretty much your last real decision for the rest of the game.
Throughout the game you have been gathering War Assets but once acquired they just become some abstract score. However they represent more than that to the player as these are people they have made tough decisions to gather together over three games. The ending of ME3 needs to provide the payoff for that. I want to see a Quarian destroyer sacrificing itself to save a Geth dreadnought. I want to see a Krogan enraged at the death of his Turian squad mate. I want it noted how keenly felt the absence of the Salarian fleet is.
Degrees of Success: Your effective military strength from your War Assets should determine how well you succeed, if at all (I'm fine with failure being an option if you haven't done enough). A spectrum would be ideal; Total Defeat < Defeat < Marginal Victory < Victory < Total Victory. Each degree of success should be clear and distinct from the previous degree; this provides a sense or achievement or something to aim for in subsequent replays if you didn't succeed as well as you had hoped. Some people want a happy ending; that's fine but it's also okay if they have to work their butt off to achieve it.
Character is Key: The high points in ME3 are the character moments. After three games you care about the characters so things that affect them affect the player; Mordin's heroic sacrifice; Tali's joy at feeling the sunlight of her homeworld on her face; Anderson telling Shepherd that he's proud of him as they stare death in the face. For a satisfactory ending to ME3 this needs to be embraced.
I'll finish with a bit of background on my history with Bioware. I have been a massive fan of Bioware's products since I played Knights of the Old Republic back in 2003. I had never been a huge video game fan and the title was a revelation for me. When I decided to purchase a gaming console I went with an Xbox as Bioware's games at the time were exclusive to that system. Every game they have released since I have pre-ordered (and always the Collector's Edition).
I enjoyed both Jade Empire and Dragon Age - Origins but loved Mass Effect and it's sequel ME2. ME2 is my favourite gaming experience to date. I played through the game four times and purchased and enjoyed all of the DLC for the game (Lair of the Shadow Broker being the best of these). I even bought a couple of N7 hoodies, some t-shirts, a bunch of the lithographs, and a Tali action figure is on my desk at work.
Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening was a buggy, unsatisfying mess that halted my purchase of any further Dragon Age DLC. I was mostly satisfied with Dragon Age 2, loved the interaction with the companion characters and appreciated that Bioware attempting something different than the standard heroic quest. The ending however was hackneyed as they mutilated the story to use the same boss fight sequences no matter your decisions. The ending of ME3 is Bioware's third strike for me.
The ending for ME3 has completely destroyed my enthusiasm for the game. I had three Shepherds that I had played from ME1 but after completing the game once, I have been unable to bring myself to finish the story for my other two. I will most certainly not be purchasing any DLC for the game. I am bewildered that Bioware could release ME3 with this ending and not expect to receive the reaction they did. Hundreds of people are involved in producing the game; no one said that this wasn't going to go down well with players?
It is clear that I can no longer rely on Bioware to produce a gaming experience that I will find satisfying. They have lost my confidence and I will not be pre-ordering any future games from Bioware. On the release of their next title I will wait several weeks to gauge player response before I decide to purchase the game or not. I hope that Bioware takes all of the feedback from this disaster on board and that they will one day once more merit my trust.
Harbinger and the Reapers: As the main antagonist of the trilogy the absence of any confrontation with the Reapers at the end is sorely missed. Harbinger was established as the controlling force behind the Collectors in ME2 and that put him in the story as the voice for the Reapers. I want him to keep smugly telling me how small and inconsequential I am right up until the moment I blow him and the other Reapers straight to hell.
The Illusive Man: TIM is not the antagonist in the story. His presence at the end seemed out of proportion to his importance and he should not be used as a stand in for the Reapers.
While I appreciated mirroring the scene with Saren in ME1 by convincing TIM to end it himself, I don't think he had earned that moment of redemption. I would rather he tried and failed to control the Reapers and only right at the end when he sees the terrible price of his hubris he either kills himself or begs Shepherd to do so.
Final moments: If the goal is to provide a bitter sweet ending then you need to contrast what was saved with what was lost.
The memorial wall on the Normandy was a lovely touch. The final moment in a game where Shepherd dies should be their love interest standing at the wall and touching Shepherd's name (their full name, a chance for the player to see their Shepherd mentioned specifically) where it stands along side all your other shipmates who made the ultimate sacrifice throughout the journey. If still alive, the Vermire survivor has been given command of the Normandy and leads the love interest away from the wall and you get a final beauty shot of the Normandy.
Something like this shows what the victory has cost but that Shepherd and the others will be remembered. Their sacrifice is not in vain as their friends and society now have a chance to continue on.
Choice: What made the ending for ME2 satisfying was you saw the payoff for choices made earlier in the game and continued to make choices with repercussions right up until the very end.
To start with you had the choice of whether to go after your abducted crew straight away or to whether to ensure you were fully prepared. At the beginning of the assault on the Collector Base the Normandy is under attack and if you haven't upgraded ship systems people die. On the base you need to choose squad mates to carry out specific tasks and people will die if you choose poorly.
What makes an RPG is choice. You want to make decisions and see their repercussions. Everything else in the game is just set dressing to give weight to those choices. In ME3 once you're committed to attack the Reapers, that's pretty much your last real decision for the rest of the game.
Throughout the game you have been gathering War Assets but once acquired they just become some abstract score. However they represent more than that to the player as these are people they have made tough decisions to gather together over three games. The ending of ME3 needs to provide the payoff for that. I want to see a Quarian destroyer sacrificing itself to save a Geth dreadnought. I want to see a Krogan enraged at the death of his Turian squad mate. I want it noted how keenly felt the absence of the Salarian fleet is.
Degrees of Success: Your effective military strength from your War Assets should determine how well you succeed, if at all (I'm fine with failure being an option if you haven't done enough). A spectrum would be ideal; Total Defeat < Defeat < Marginal Victory < Victory < Total Victory. Each degree of success should be clear and distinct from the previous degree; this provides a sense or achievement or something to aim for in subsequent replays if you didn't succeed as well as you had hoped. Some people want a happy ending; that's fine but it's also okay if they have to work their butt off to achieve it.
Character is Key: The high points in ME3 are the character moments. After three games you care about the characters so things that affect them affect the player; Mordin's heroic sacrifice; Tali's joy at feeling the sunlight of her homeworld on her face; Anderson telling Shepherd that he's proud of him as they stare death in the face. For a satisfactory ending to ME3 this needs to be embraced.
I'll finish with a bit of background on my history with Bioware. I have been a massive fan of Bioware's products since I played Knights of the Old Republic back in 2003. I had never been a huge video game fan and the title was a revelation for me. When I decided to purchase a gaming console I went with an Xbox as Bioware's games at the time were exclusive to that system. Every game they have released since I have pre-ordered (and always the Collector's Edition).
I enjoyed both Jade Empire and Dragon Age - Origins but loved Mass Effect and it's sequel ME2. ME2 is my favourite gaming experience to date. I played through the game four times and purchased and enjoyed all of the DLC for the game (Lair of the Shadow Broker being the best of these). I even bought a couple of N7 hoodies, some t-shirts, a bunch of the lithographs, and a Tali action figure is on my desk at work.
Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening was a buggy, unsatisfying mess that halted my purchase of any further Dragon Age DLC. I was mostly satisfied with Dragon Age 2, loved the interaction with the companion characters and appreciated that Bioware attempting something different than the standard heroic quest. The ending however was hackneyed as they mutilated the story to use the same boss fight sequences no matter your decisions. The ending of ME3 is Bioware's third strike for me.
The ending for ME3 has completely destroyed my enthusiasm for the game. I had three Shepherds that I had played from ME1 but after completing the game once, I have been unable to bring myself to finish the story for my other two. I will most certainly not be purchasing any DLC for the game. I am bewildered that Bioware could release ME3 with this ending and not expect to receive the reaction they did. Hundreds of people are involved in producing the game; no one said that this wasn't going to go down well with players?
It is clear that I can no longer rely on Bioware to produce a gaming experience that I will find satisfying. They have lost my confidence and I will not be pre-ordering any future games from Bioware. On the release of their next title I will wait several weeks to gauge player response before I decide to purchase the game or not. I hope that Bioware takes all of the feedback from this disaster on board and that they will one day once more merit my trust.
Modifié par tog42, 05 avril 2012 - 10:46 .
#6057
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:47
Skirlasvoud
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http://www.gamefront...n-get-it-right/
This article gives you a brilliant rundown of what you should consider before touching the endings.
You shouldn't try to satisfy the fans. What you should be doing is getting together and figuring out for yourself that the current end-product is riddled with unsatisfying conclusions that barely touch player choice.
This article gives you a brilliant rundown of what you should consider before touching the endings.
You shouldn't try to satisfy the fans. What you should be doing is getting together and figuring out for yourself that the current end-product is riddled with unsatisfying conclusions that barely touch player choice.
#6058
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 10:56
Shoulder Massage Of Death
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- Members
- 4 messages
First off, I'd like to thank you for making a truly remarkable
game, and I appreciate all of your hard work in creating such a
wonderful experience for the fans of this series.
The Mass Effect franchise has been described to be centred around the
concept of player choice. However, the conclusion of Mass Effect 3
appears to deviate from this theme, and it seems that the three
options presented at the finale completely disregard player decisions
from earlier in the game, and from Mass Effect 1&2. The War
Assets, Readiness Meter and Galaxy at War components led me to
believe that if I had completed all necessary preparations, that I
would be 'rewarded' with an ending that reflects a feeling of
success, relief, and closure. However, upon completing Mass Effect 3
in its entirety, I found that the three endings that I was presented
with did not differ from each other in a significant way, and that
all three options left me with a sense of failure, confusion, and
disappointment. It is my belief that the game would benefit from
offering a potential positive, 'happy' ending, in addition to, or by
expanding upon, the existing endings.
My positive experience with Mass Effect 2 was highlighted by the fact
that my choices and performance earlier in the game and during the
final mission directly affect the ending of the game, whether it be
the loss of specific squad members or what happens to Shepard. If I
failed to properly prepare for the finale by electing not to purchase
critical upgrades for the Normandy, then squad members would perish
in one of the cutscenes during the final mission. If I failed to
complete loyalty missions, that plays a role in the final mission as
well. The decisions during the final mission, where the player is
asked to assign specific squad members to lead fire teams were
fantastic showcases of player choice and consequences. With that
said, I expected the same level of player involvement and critical
choices (coupled with significantly different consequences), heading
into Mass Effect 3.
The Readiness Meter that was introduced led me to believe that my
preparations for the final battle, as with Mass Effect 2, would have
significant consequences and effects on the outcome of my playthrough
of the game. However, I was disappointed to learn that the Effective
Military Strength score only seemed to unlock certain ending choices
at the finale. In addition, the ending choices were extremely
similar to each other. I was most disappointed at the fact that
Shepard appears to perish in all of the endings of Mass Effect 2,
with the exception of the brief cutscene that the player can unlock,
which shows the protagonist laying in a pile of rubble, and gasps for
air before the screen fades to black. Ultimately, in all three
endings, I was left with a feeling of failure. Mass Effect 2 allowed
players to overcome the odds and defeat the Collectors as well as
survive, with the squad intact (based on player decisions and
performance). With Mass Effect 3, I felt that no matter the state of
readiness or amount of military strength that I had gathered for the
final fight, that Shepard would never again see his team or live to
see the consequences of his actions. The choice was simply not
there, for a true unambiguous ending where Shepard's fate is decided
by earlier factors.
The strong emotional connection that many players have established, with
the squadmates and allies in the Mass Effect franchise should not be
disregarded. I feel that players should be rewarded with the
possibility of an ending where the protagonist is reunited with
his/her squadmates, and love interest. The survival of Shepard and
his/her reunion with squadmates and love interest are the key
elements that I would like to see in a potential ending. My proposed
suggestion is to expand upon the existing endings, with the inclusion
of a positive, happy ending. It is my belief that if players put in
an extra effort in their playthrough to aim for a positive,
successful ending, that such an ending should exist. To address the
equally valid concerns of those who oppose a happy ending, I would
like to make clear that I am not suggesting a happy ending be imposed
upon all players. Rather, I am suggesting that a happy ending should
exist, for the benefit of those who seek one. The players who are
against such and ending are free to approach their playthrough as
they normally would, without putting in the extra effort in an
attempt to unlock or achieve the happy ending. In short, if one does
not like such an ending, he/she has the option of either not
downloading the additional content, or playing through without
putting in extra efforts to unlock the ending in question. Thus, the
inclusion of a happy ending will benefit those seeking it, without
harming the experience of those who do not seek one.
It is also my belief that there are many more players who seek a happy
ending whose voices are not heard. This may be the result of a
general stigma being applied by some members of the gaming community,
to those who seek a happy ending, as “immature”, “childish”,
or “unsophisticated”. This stigma/label is likely to discourage
many players from voicing their desire for a happy ending, and may
encourage players to claim that they “do not want a happy ending,
but just seeking closure”. While I recognize that this is not the
case for many, and the there are indeed many fans who simply do not
want a happy ending, I believe that this stigma that is applied by a
minority of members in the gaming community does affect many people,
and results in a decreased quantity of players voicing their true
opinions.
With the Extended Cut DLC being released in the summer, I hope that some
of these suggestions will be taken into consideration. I look
forward to seeing what you have in store us, and here's hoping that
this controversial ending issue will finally fade, with a satisfying
epilogue.
game, and I appreciate all of your hard work in creating such a
wonderful experience for the fans of this series.
The Mass Effect franchise has been described to be centred around the
concept of player choice. However, the conclusion of Mass Effect 3
appears to deviate from this theme, and it seems that the three
options presented at the finale completely disregard player decisions
from earlier in the game, and from Mass Effect 1&2. The War
Assets, Readiness Meter and Galaxy at War components led me to
believe that if I had completed all necessary preparations, that I
would be 'rewarded' with an ending that reflects a feeling of
success, relief, and closure. However, upon completing Mass Effect 3
in its entirety, I found that the three endings that I was presented
with did not differ from each other in a significant way, and that
all three options left me with a sense of failure, confusion, and
disappointment. It is my belief that the game would benefit from
offering a potential positive, 'happy' ending, in addition to, or by
expanding upon, the existing endings.
My positive experience with Mass Effect 2 was highlighted by the fact
that my choices and performance earlier in the game and during the
final mission directly affect the ending of the game, whether it be
the loss of specific squad members or what happens to Shepard. If I
failed to properly prepare for the finale by electing not to purchase
critical upgrades for the Normandy, then squad members would perish
in one of the cutscenes during the final mission. If I failed to
complete loyalty missions, that plays a role in the final mission as
well. The decisions during the final mission, where the player is
asked to assign specific squad members to lead fire teams were
fantastic showcases of player choice and consequences. With that
said, I expected the same level of player involvement and critical
choices (coupled with significantly different consequences), heading
into Mass Effect 3.
The Readiness Meter that was introduced led me to believe that my
preparations for the final battle, as with Mass Effect 2, would have
significant consequences and effects on the outcome of my playthrough
of the game. However, I was disappointed to learn that the Effective
Military Strength score only seemed to unlock certain ending choices
at the finale. In addition, the ending choices were extremely
similar to each other. I was most disappointed at the fact that
Shepard appears to perish in all of the endings of Mass Effect 2,
with the exception of the brief cutscene that the player can unlock,
which shows the protagonist laying in a pile of rubble, and gasps for
air before the screen fades to black. Ultimately, in all three
endings, I was left with a feeling of failure. Mass Effect 2 allowed
players to overcome the odds and defeat the Collectors as well as
survive, with the squad intact (based on player decisions and
performance). With Mass Effect 3, I felt that no matter the state of
readiness or amount of military strength that I had gathered for the
final fight, that Shepard would never again see his team or live to
see the consequences of his actions. The choice was simply not
there, for a true unambiguous ending where Shepard's fate is decided
by earlier factors.
The strong emotional connection that many players have established, with
the squadmates and allies in the Mass Effect franchise should not be
disregarded. I feel that players should be rewarded with the
possibility of an ending where the protagonist is reunited with
his/her squadmates, and love interest. The survival of Shepard and
his/her reunion with squadmates and love interest are the key
elements that I would like to see in a potential ending. My proposed
suggestion is to expand upon the existing endings, with the inclusion
of a positive, happy ending. It is my belief that if players put in
an extra effort in their playthrough to aim for a positive,
successful ending, that such an ending should exist. To address the
equally valid concerns of those who oppose a happy ending, I would
like to make clear that I am not suggesting a happy ending be imposed
upon all players. Rather, I am suggesting that a happy ending should
exist, for the benefit of those who seek one. The players who are
against such and ending are free to approach their playthrough as
they normally would, without putting in the extra effort in an
attempt to unlock or achieve the happy ending. In short, if one does
not like such an ending, he/she has the option of either not
downloading the additional content, or playing through without
putting in extra efforts to unlock the ending in question. Thus, the
inclusion of a happy ending will benefit those seeking it, without
harming the experience of those who do not seek one.
It is also my belief that there are many more players who seek a happy
ending whose voices are not heard. This may be the result of a
general stigma being applied by some members of the gaming community,
to those who seek a happy ending, as “immature”, “childish”,
or “unsophisticated”. This stigma/label is likely to discourage
many players from voicing their desire for a happy ending, and may
encourage players to claim that they “do not want a happy ending,
but just seeking closure”. While I recognize that this is not the
case for many, and the there are indeed many fans who simply do not
want a happy ending, I believe that this stigma that is applied by a
minority of members in the gaming community does affect many people,
and results in a decreased quantity of players voicing their true
opinions.
With the Extended Cut DLC being released in the summer, I hope that some
of these suggestions will be taken into consideration. I look
forward to seeing what you have in store us, and here's hoping that
this controversial ending issue will finally fade, with a satisfying
epilogue.
Modifié par Shoulder Massage Of Death, 05 avril 2012 - 10:57 .
#6059
Guest_jojimbo_*
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 11:13
Guest_jojimbo_*
Guest_jojimbo_*
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it was all for nothing anyway
Modifié par jojimbo, 05 avril 2012 - 11:45 .
#6060
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 11:43
Canis_Major
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- 100 messages
I guess after the statement of the Extended Ending DLC, this thread makes no sense because no changes will be applied to the ending, only cinematics / footage.
#6061
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 11:51
Zach Forry
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- 5 messages
I'm not really sure what to make of this news of the "extended cut" ending. On one hand I commend Bioware for sticking to their guns. On the other hand, I feel like they just have given me and every fan of Mass Effect the "finger". I like to take a moment to explain why.
I am myself an artist (illustrator and graphic designer), and as such, I can understand that ultimately whatever you create will always be considered your "artistic vision". But this does not mean that your "artistic vision" can be criticized by others. As an artist you have to learn how to take criticism well and then decide whether or not to take that criticism and apply those changes to your art. I feel in most cases, if said criticism is minor, and if it doesn't make or break the piece, then you deserve to keep the piece way you intended it, there by keeping your "artisitic integrity" intact. If that said piece, on the other hand, has major flaws to the point where your original intentions are lost, then you need make some major changes to improve upon the original concept or completely start from scratch.
These rules especially apply if you were to take that said piece of art work and sell it to a customer. After all, you are making it for the customer, aren't you? As much as I hate to admit it, when you sell your work to somebody, they are not always going to be satisified with it. They deserve the right to ask you to revisit it if doesn't meet up to their standards. Yeah, sometimes their request might go against your "artistic vision" but if you're wise enough you'll make the changes no matter how small or big. Otherwise, You'll suffer the consquences of losing them as a customer.
How is does this apply to Boiware? Well, Bioware has been given the opportunity to get back in the good graces of their loyal fans and customers by changing their ending for ME3. They realize that the ending as it is right now, has confused and alienated their fans. To win back our affection, they are taking measures to fix it. Their soultion to this problem is to build upon their original ending to clear up any inconsistencies that people have with their "artistic vision" of the ending. This would be great if they manage to pull it off and that it all makes sense. The thing is, this is not what 95% of their fan base, including me, are asking for at all.
Bioware....the general consensus behind fans disapproval of the ending boils down to one factor, THE CATALYST (AKA STAR CHILD). This is the one thing that keeps popping up in almost every comment I've had read and watched on internet. THIS NEEDs TO BE REMOVED! As an artist, I respect that you want to stick to your guns and keep your original idea intact but ultimately you got roll with the punchs and make changes to tailor to your customer's needs. Nobody is asking of you to give up your "artist integrity", they are just asking you to remove something that doesn't work. If you don't want go with "Indoctrination Theory" plot synopsis that the fans have written, that's fine, nobody's forcing you to use it. We are just asking that you create an ending that does not include THE CATALYST because it and everything that flows it conflicts with earlier established lore. I'm sure that you guys can come with something better than this current ending without sacrifricing your "artistic integrity". Up until the ending ME3 your "artistic integrity" has come up with a spectacular sci-fi fantasy on par with Star Trek for this generation, you guys at least owe it yourselves finish the ending on a harmonious note and not on a convoluted plot thread.
Ulimately, the decisions up to you. I'm not the brainchild behind this series and therefore I can't force you to do what you don't want to do. Just know by continuing to stand by your decision to stick with the current ending you run the risk losing any support from your loyal fans should your "extended cut" of the ending fail. I hope at the very least you take this into consideration before you finish production on the new ending. I thank you for your time and I wish you well on your endeavor.
P.S. Please at least include a final boss for the "extended cut" if nothing else. I hate for the last challenge of the game be Marauder Shields.
I am myself an artist (illustrator and graphic designer), and as such, I can understand that ultimately whatever you create will always be considered your "artistic vision". But this does not mean that your "artistic vision" can be criticized by others. As an artist you have to learn how to take criticism well and then decide whether or not to take that criticism and apply those changes to your art. I feel in most cases, if said criticism is minor, and if it doesn't make or break the piece, then you deserve to keep the piece way you intended it, there by keeping your "artisitic integrity" intact. If that said piece, on the other hand, has major flaws to the point where your original intentions are lost, then you need make some major changes to improve upon the original concept or completely start from scratch.
These rules especially apply if you were to take that said piece of art work and sell it to a customer. After all, you are making it for the customer, aren't you? As much as I hate to admit it, when you sell your work to somebody, they are not always going to be satisified with it. They deserve the right to ask you to revisit it if doesn't meet up to their standards. Yeah, sometimes their request might go against your "artistic vision" but if you're wise enough you'll make the changes no matter how small or big. Otherwise, You'll suffer the consquences of losing them as a customer.
How is does this apply to Boiware? Well, Bioware has been given the opportunity to get back in the good graces of their loyal fans and customers by changing their ending for ME3. They realize that the ending as it is right now, has confused and alienated their fans. To win back our affection, they are taking measures to fix it. Their soultion to this problem is to build upon their original ending to clear up any inconsistencies that people have with their "artistic vision" of the ending. This would be great if they manage to pull it off and that it all makes sense. The thing is, this is not what 95% of their fan base, including me, are asking for at all.
Bioware....the general consensus behind fans disapproval of the ending boils down to one factor, THE CATALYST (AKA STAR CHILD). This is the one thing that keeps popping up in almost every comment I've had read and watched on internet. THIS NEEDs TO BE REMOVED! As an artist, I respect that you want to stick to your guns and keep your original idea intact but ultimately you got roll with the punchs and make changes to tailor to your customer's needs. Nobody is asking of you to give up your "artist integrity", they are just asking you to remove something that doesn't work. If you don't want go with "Indoctrination Theory" plot synopsis that the fans have written, that's fine, nobody's forcing you to use it. We are just asking that you create an ending that does not include THE CATALYST because it and everything that flows it conflicts with earlier established lore. I'm sure that you guys can come with something better than this current ending without sacrifricing your "artistic integrity". Up until the ending ME3 your "artistic integrity" has come up with a spectacular sci-fi fantasy on par with Star Trek for this generation, you guys at least owe it yourselves finish the ending on a harmonious note and not on a convoluted plot thread.
Ulimately, the decisions up to you. I'm not the brainchild behind this series and therefore I can't force you to do what you don't want to do. Just know by continuing to stand by your decision to stick with the current ending you run the risk losing any support from your loyal fans should your "extended cut" of the ending fail. I hope at the very least you take this into consideration before you finish production on the new ending. I thank you for your time and I wish you well on your endeavor.
P.S. Please at least include a final boss for the "extended cut" if nothing else. I hate for the last challenge of the game be Marauder Shields.
#6062
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 12:07
Sol243
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You have probably heard of my problems with the ending many times before but I would still like to tell you what is wrong with it.
Why are the mass effect relays exploding? On the Arrival DLC, it shows the destruction of the relay means the destruction of the solar system. The fact that the relays explode no matter what decision you make means you commit galactic genocide. What kind of ending is that?
Why did the reapers take the Citadel to earth and why were they focusing on London? None of that was explained.
Why did Joker abandon you and how did your teammates get aboard the ship? I don't like to think Joker is a coward and they don't have transporters in the Mass Effect Universe.
What happens to everyone on the Citadel? Are they all dead?
Lack of Choice is also a problem. You only get three endings and they don't make sense. I already mentioned the relays destruction and Joker fleeing problems. Why must I destroy the reapers but also destroy the Geth and EDI? What's the point of saving the Geth and helping EDI evolve if they are going to die? The other two choice are also problematic. Why would I try to control the reapers when that is what the Illuslive man wanted? Also, why would I want to merge organics and synthetics? That is what the reapers wanted. Give us more choices which means multiple endings. I'd like to see a Shepard lives ending and have the reapers win in an ending.
The reaper/ghost/child doesn't make sense. It says it created the reapers to protect organics from synthetics by killing them which is nonsense. Why include the child at all? What connection is there to the dreams Shepard had about the child?
The ending was anti-climactic. I was hoping to fight Harbinger. Why can't he be the final boss?
Another thing that was missing was seeing what you put effort into. I saved the Geth and Rachni but I didn't see them in the final battle in London. I want to see Geth units fighting in the background, Rachni mowing down husks, Krogan solders duking it out. I like to see my choices in the game show up.
The war assets you build up didn't seem to matter at the end. I spend a lot of time finishing the Citadel missions and I don't know if that made a difference. Is C-Sec fighting the reapers or are they all dead? I want to see Geth fighters, Turian ships, etc.. fight over earth.
This has nothing to do with the ending but the Tail photo was badly photoshopped. It's obvious you cut off two fingers off a human hand. Can you put a little more effort in to it?
Please address these problems. The rest of the game was great. It's the ending that needs work and the Tali photo if you can get around to it.
Why are the mass effect relays exploding? On the Arrival DLC, it shows the destruction of the relay means the destruction of the solar system. The fact that the relays explode no matter what decision you make means you commit galactic genocide. What kind of ending is that?
Why did the reapers take the Citadel to earth and why were they focusing on London? None of that was explained.
Why did Joker abandon you and how did your teammates get aboard the ship? I don't like to think Joker is a coward and they don't have transporters in the Mass Effect Universe.
What happens to everyone on the Citadel? Are they all dead?
Lack of Choice is also a problem. You only get three endings and they don't make sense. I already mentioned the relays destruction and Joker fleeing problems. Why must I destroy the reapers but also destroy the Geth and EDI? What's the point of saving the Geth and helping EDI evolve if they are going to die? The other two choice are also problematic. Why would I try to control the reapers when that is what the Illuslive man wanted? Also, why would I want to merge organics and synthetics? That is what the reapers wanted. Give us more choices which means multiple endings. I'd like to see a Shepard lives ending and have the reapers win in an ending.
The reaper/ghost/child doesn't make sense. It says it created the reapers to protect organics from synthetics by killing them which is nonsense. Why include the child at all? What connection is there to the dreams Shepard had about the child?
The ending was anti-climactic. I was hoping to fight Harbinger. Why can't he be the final boss?
Another thing that was missing was seeing what you put effort into. I saved the Geth and Rachni but I didn't see them in the final battle in London. I want to see Geth units fighting in the background, Rachni mowing down husks, Krogan solders duking it out. I like to see my choices in the game show up.
The war assets you build up didn't seem to matter at the end. I spend a lot of time finishing the Citadel missions and I don't know if that made a difference. Is C-Sec fighting the reapers or are they all dead? I want to see Geth fighters, Turian ships, etc.. fight over earth.
This has nothing to do with the ending but the Tail photo was badly photoshopped. It's obvious you cut off two fingers off a human hand. Can you put a little more effort in to it?
Please address these problems. The rest of the game was great. It's the ending that needs work and the Tali photo if you can get around to it.
Modifié par Sol243, 06 avril 2012 - 12:09 .
#6063
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 12:12
Butane9000
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Considering they have announced the DLC to fix the ending and it only consists of giving players "more closure" while maintaining the space magic heresy that Bioware concocted it is clear they haven't even paid one iota of attention to this thread and continuing it is pointless.
#6064
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 12:39
Canis_Major
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Butane9000 wrote...
Considering they have announced the DLC to fix the ending and it only consists of giving players "more closure" while maintaining the space magic heresy that Bioware concocted it is clear they haven't even paid one iota of attention to this thread and continuing it is pointless.
Agreed.
#6065
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 01:06
mrbeavis19
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Way to put up a thread for suggestions, then entirely ignore it BW. Hope you realize how big the gap between you and your fans is becoming.
#6066
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 01:24
Chrislo1990
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I second that. Bioware isn't even a shadow of it's formal self. Let's see how long they can keep up ignoring as their fanbase dwindles more and more. I for once don't plan o preordering anything with the Bioware logo. I don't trust them. Not one bit.Butane9000 wrote...
Considering they have announced the DLC to fix the ending and it only consists of giving players "more closure" while maintaining the space magic heresy that Bioware concocted it is clear they haven't even paid one iota of attention to this thread and continuing it is pointless.
#6067
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 02:04
LorecDronso
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- 2 messages
Its nice to see that EA and Bioware are listening. If they listen to anything at all, it should be this. IF they can't fix their issue with the ME3 ending. This is the end for me, and many others. I will never recommend a EA/Bioware game to friends, if anything, I'll push them in any other direction. They've lost future sales of me, and anyone associated with me, and then associated with them, and so forth. If they care about their standing as a business, they'll listen to their consumers, or go out of business, as they apparently deserve.
#6068
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 02:23
Bigdoser
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Ha so this whole thread was pointless!? They did not even bother to read the topic if all they are doing is clarifying the ending oh boy. Lets add this topic to the list of lies I am so disappointed right now.
#6069
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 02:33
jer79
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- 9 messages
It's sad to see BW is still hanging its hat on "artistic vision." Even terrible artists can have artistic integrity; their art just remains…terrible. It gets them nowhere when the majority they wish to impact with their art assess it negatively. The artistic landscape is scattered full of the bodies of bad artists who stood their ground and have been forgotten in time. Rather than falling on one’s ‘paint brush,’ an artist who created bad art can still have integrity while acknowledging that his/her art could have been much better. In such a case, the artist can merely walk away and work on the next project, learning from his/her mistakes, or change his/her art in accordance with the constructive criticism. Video games easily lend themselves to the latter option.
Rather than trying to explain the terrible introduction of the Catalyst (a.k.a. deus ex machina; a cheap literary ploy used mainly by lazy writers), I'd rather have BW just cut it out and bridge the story. That would probably make better sense than trying to extend the ending to explain it. But, perhaps, I will be surprised and BW will pull a rabbit out of the hat in the end (oh, the irony!).
Rather than trying to explain the terrible introduction of the Catalyst (a.k.a. deus ex machina; a cheap literary ploy used mainly by lazy writers), I'd rather have BW just cut it out and bridge the story. That would probably make better sense than trying to extend the ending to explain it. But, perhaps, I will be surprised and BW will pull a rabbit out of the hat in the end (oh, the irony!).
Modifié par jer79, 06 avril 2012 - 02:34 .
#6070
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 02:49
The Spamming Troll
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even i am confused.
/thread.
/thread.
#6071
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:13
Waldschatten
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From what I keep hearing I'm beginning to think I should just sell the bloody disc and wait a few years for a fan patch that fixes this because it seems less and less likely that BioWare is going to do more than try to put a band-aid on their severed artery.
#6072
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:23
Ghostsaxon
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- 64 messages
To The Developers and Writers of the Mass Effect Trilogy, id like to begin by thanking you for a wonderful, deep journey that i have taken many times through many play throughs.
Mass Effect 1 Still surprises me with new encounters that i missed on previous playthroughs. ( Shepards Mom) Most recently. I always Finish With a great sence of acomplishment and fulfilment.
Mass Effect 2: Let me delv into knowing my crew through witty interactions and dialog. A sence of purpose to ensure all was ready for the final mission. Again i finish with fullfilment and purpose.
Mass Effect 3 was one title i was most Anticipating even more than Skyrim lol
I got it day 1 and delved into my journey anxious to continue my saga.
High Points! The genophage cure wrex and death of mordin (Paragon) Left me in tears! (Renegade) My Jaw dropped when confronted by wrex on citidel!.
Legions death and quarian story left me in tears.. well done
Garrus on the cittidel bridge shooting bottlels, loved it.
even when drinking in the bar and awaking next to aria's protective gaze was a wonderful touch.
Many other things i have enjoyed through my 5 playthroughs but there are some disapointments id like to mention.
The ending of course left me scratching my head as to what just happened. No Fullfilment or accomplishment.
the lack of affection from my love interest Liara who i found cold and unemotional. and i stayed true to her since mass effect 1. i would have liked to seen that considered for those who romanced ashley or liara for there whole journey to have a deeper sence of relationship. Even the shadow broker dlc romance option with liara wasnt refrenced by her in mass effect 3.
But even though i could say more, thank you for the journey , I Just wished for a deeper connection and closer with those i grew to love since mass effect 1.
Thank you
Mass Effect 1 Still surprises me with new encounters that i missed on previous playthroughs. ( Shepards Mom) Most recently. I always Finish With a great sence of acomplishment and fulfilment.
Mass Effect 2: Let me delv into knowing my crew through witty interactions and dialog. A sence of purpose to ensure all was ready for the final mission. Again i finish with fullfilment and purpose.
Mass Effect 3 was one title i was most Anticipating even more than Skyrim lol
I got it day 1 and delved into my journey anxious to continue my saga.
High Points! The genophage cure wrex and death of mordin (Paragon) Left me in tears! (Renegade) My Jaw dropped when confronted by wrex on citidel!.
Legions death and quarian story left me in tears.. well done
Garrus on the cittidel bridge shooting bottlels, loved it.
even when drinking in the bar and awaking next to aria's protective gaze was a wonderful touch.
Many other things i have enjoyed through my 5 playthroughs but there are some disapointments id like to mention.
The ending of course left me scratching my head as to what just happened. No Fullfilment or accomplishment.
the lack of affection from my love interest Liara who i found cold and unemotional. and i stayed true to her since mass effect 1. i would have liked to seen that considered for those who romanced ashley or liara for there whole journey to have a deeper sence of relationship. Even the shadow broker dlc romance option with liara wasnt refrenced by her in mass effect 3.
But even though i could say more, thank you for the journey , I Just wished for a deeper connection and closer with those i grew to love since mass effect 1.
Thank you
#6073
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:34
Erathsmedor
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This whole "art integrity" rubbish is just that.
The art they are creating is a product. Art they are selling to us and that art was sold to us on the basis that our choices would matter, no railroaded ABC type ending, 16 different endings etc etc - you can see the list of what we were told our product would contain here
http://social.biowar...index/10056886/
An artist/sculptor/painter/whatever doesn't get to promise to (and get paid to) paint/sculpt a portrait of us in classic Napoleon stance, then turn in some piece of **** abstract version and when called out on it say "Well too bad. It was my artistic vision that it would look better abstract"
Their artist's integrity went out the door the second they accepted money for it and made statements of what they were accepting that money to deliver
The art they are creating is a product. Art they are selling to us and that art was sold to us on the basis that our choices would matter, no railroaded ABC type ending, 16 different endings etc etc - you can see the list of what we were told our product would contain here
http://social.biowar...index/10056886/
An artist/sculptor/painter/whatever doesn't get to promise to (and get paid to) paint/sculpt a portrait of us in classic Napoleon stance, then turn in some piece of **** abstract version and when called out on it say "Well too bad. It was my artistic vision that it would look better abstract"
Their artist's integrity went out the door the second they accepted money for it and made statements of what they were accepting that money to deliver
Modifié par Erathsmedor, 06 avril 2012 - 03:35 .
#6074
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:35
Argetfalcon
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I personally don't think the ending needs clarification.
I think it needs to be redone completely
And retcon Tali's face SERIOUSLY (don't even try to use the excuse of artistic integrity because that wasn't artistic it was LAZY)
I think it needs to be redone completely
And retcon Tali's face SERIOUSLY (don't even try to use the excuse of artistic integrity because that wasn't artistic it was LAZY)
#6075
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 03:47
Chrislo1990
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- 323 messages
Agreed! In the end wha tthey sold us is a product that did meet specifications. There is no excuse for that.Erathsmedor wrote...
This whole "art integrity" rubbish is just that.
The art they are creating is a product. Art they are selling to us and that art was sold to us on the basis that our choices would matter, no railroaded ABC type ending, 16 different endings etc etc - you can see the list of what we were told our product would contain here
http://social.biowar...index/10056886/
An artist/sculptor/painter/whatever doesn't get to promise to (and get paid to) paint/sculpt a portrait of us in classic Napoleon stance, then turn in some piece of **** abstract version and when called out on it say "Well too bad. It was my artistic vision that it would look better abstract"
Their artist's integrity went out the door the second they accepted money for it and made statements of what they were accepting that money to deliver
