1.) Remove God-child.
-> This story device is broken and kills immersion. It was a bad judgement to put it in, so take it out!
2.) Give Tali a face that was designed by the ME artists.
-> Stock photo manip is not ok.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
Débuté par
RaenImrahl
, mars 17 2012 03:00
Retour en haut
#6202
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 08:19
braisbr1
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Hi Bioware!
I believe this to be the thread where the constructive feedback goes, so I wanted to express something that I believe is really important to the saga - and that is the replay value.
I'm sure a lot of players have already written about most of the changes that are needed, and the things that don't work - like starbrat, plotholes, nothing is explained... etcetera.
But what these things are ultimately doing is killing the replay value - I mean, even if the endings are bad and the explanation for them is not very well done, it hurts to go back to the game and have this question come back to our minds: what for?
With this I want to include every choice made in the game, and every action you take - why would you want to play again a game about choice if, in the end, you are not sure if they matter? And the word "sure" is the real important one in the last sentence. Because us gamers are not sure about the results of the outcomes of the endings, and being not sure about something does not only create speculation (which could be something you wanted to achieve) but it also makes you feel like the endings are very poorly written and that it makes no sense. It makes you feel like it was all for nothing, and destroys everything that came behind.
If you want to know if I'm right or wrong, you just have to create a thread about synthesis or destroy. Some will think destroy is the right choice because if they chose synthesis they will eliminate all diversity in the galaxy, and they will be acting like hitler, imposing their decission to everyone. but me, for example, I believe synthesis is the right choice, because it doesn't change who you are, you are still "you", but with some benefits, and nothing negative.
But there's so much room left for interpretation that it discourages you to keep playing.
That's what I think is important, bringing back the replay value - but I sincerely hope that many more things will be fixed for the upcoming DLC. it's such a great saga to see it fall like this.
I believe this to be the thread where the constructive feedback goes, so I wanted to express something that I believe is really important to the saga - and that is the replay value.
I'm sure a lot of players have already written about most of the changes that are needed, and the things that don't work - like starbrat, plotholes, nothing is explained... etcetera.
But what these things are ultimately doing is killing the replay value - I mean, even if the endings are bad and the explanation for them is not very well done, it hurts to go back to the game and have this question come back to our minds: what for?
With this I want to include every choice made in the game, and every action you take - why would you want to play again a game about choice if, in the end, you are not sure if they matter? And the word "sure" is the real important one in the last sentence. Because us gamers are not sure about the results of the outcomes of the endings, and being not sure about something does not only create speculation (which could be something you wanted to achieve) but it also makes you feel like the endings are very poorly written and that it makes no sense. It makes you feel like it was all for nothing, and destroys everything that came behind.
If you want to know if I'm right or wrong, you just have to create a thread about synthesis or destroy. Some will think destroy is the right choice because if they chose synthesis they will eliminate all diversity in the galaxy, and they will be acting like hitler, imposing their decission to everyone. but me, for example, I believe synthesis is the right choice, because it doesn't change who you are, you are still "you", but with some benefits, and nothing negative.
But there's so much room left for interpretation that it discourages you to keep playing.
That's what I think is important, bringing back the replay value - but I sincerely hope that many more things will be fixed for the upcoming DLC. it's such a great saga to see it fall like this.
#6203
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 08:20
AvagerShepard
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Add some epic ME1 and ME2 music to the endings.
#6204
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 08:23
Silvair
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SimonTheFrog wrote...
1.) Remove God-child.
-> This story device is broken and kills immersion. It was a bad judgement to put it in, so take it out!
2.) Give Tali a face that was designed by the ME artists.
-> Stock photo manip is not ok.
Bit of a correction on 2. I'm okay with using a teaked stock photo as the basis for her in-game face....I just wanna see it ingame.
After all, a LOT of ME characters use real life people as the basis for their looks (Shepard, Liara, Joker, Illusive Man, etc.)
#6205
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 08:49
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
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- Guests
I would suggest:
1. the IT to be (made) true
2. Shepard to wake up after the destroy ending
3. a variant of the dark energy ending re-integrated, picking up all the threads regarding dying suns and human genetic malleability - Shepard can decide whether to allow the reapers to process the galaxy's races or to destroy the reapers, preparing the stage for upcoming mass effect titles: find a solution to the universe's dark energy problem. Human genetics could be helpful in enabling the reapers to create reapers from DNA normally not suited for processing, like the Prothean DNA (picking up a plot thread from the collector ship, where the collectors were "running baseline genetic comparisons between their species and humanity", and the collector base, where "probabilities suggest the reapers tried to create a Prothean reaper and failed").
4. the crucible to weaken the reapers through a blast sent out from the citadel.
5. to explain why the reapers did not shut down the network through the citadel: harbinger wanted shepard at all costs and needed shepard to get to him, confident he could indoctrinate him
6. a final space battle after the blast from the crucible and a boss fight shepard & teammates vs avatar of harbinger (cp. avatar of Sovereign in ME1)
7. proper closure and epilogues.
That, to me, would return ME to its proper grandeur.
Nothing has to be re-written, just a 4-hour DLC added to the end, comparable in size to Lair of the Shadow Broker. I'd even pay for that, if it fixes Mass Effect.
1. the IT to be (made) true
2. Shepard to wake up after the destroy ending
3. a variant of the dark energy ending re-integrated, picking up all the threads regarding dying suns and human genetic malleability - Shepard can decide whether to allow the reapers to process the galaxy's races or to destroy the reapers, preparing the stage for upcoming mass effect titles: find a solution to the universe's dark energy problem. Human genetics could be helpful in enabling the reapers to create reapers from DNA normally not suited for processing, like the Prothean DNA (picking up a plot thread from the collector ship, where the collectors were "running baseline genetic comparisons between their species and humanity", and the collector base, where "probabilities suggest the reapers tried to create a Prothean reaper and failed").
4. the crucible to weaken the reapers through a blast sent out from the citadel.
5. to explain why the reapers did not shut down the network through the citadel: harbinger wanted shepard at all costs and needed shepard to get to him, confident he could indoctrinate him
6. a final space battle after the blast from the crucible and a boss fight shepard & teammates vs avatar of harbinger (cp. avatar of Sovereign in ME1)
7. proper closure and epilogues.
That, to me, would return ME to its proper grandeur.
Nothing has to be re-written, just a 4-hour DLC added to the end, comparable in size to Lair of the Shadow Broker. I'd even pay for that, if it fixes Mass Effect.
Modifié par Sareth Cousland, 07 avril 2012 - 08:53 .
#6206
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 09:13
Zach Forry
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Does anybody else get the feeling that they are releasing the "extended cut" ending on purpose to get fans so desperate that they will be willing to pay for fan version of the ending? If this is the case, it's a great ploy but an aweful risky business decision. If the the demand is high enough and people are willing to pay for a better ending, I don't see why they wouldn't make a new ending. The thing is so many people are already pissed about the ending and feel they deserve a new ending for free. I don't think this will go over well if that's what they are planning on doing.
#6207
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 09:13
ilWarden
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The following events take place after the docking of the Crucible and Shepard passing out on the control dais.
Shepard wakes up to the Catalyst in front of him, in the haunting, ethereal form of the dead Earth-child who's been plaguing his nightmares.
Many of the same dialogue options that existed in current ending scenarios persist. (thereby not requiring re-write, or re-recording of V.o.)
The Catalyst presents Shepard with the same 3 arbitrary choices - the -only- choices as perceived to be inevitable by the Catalyst.
Additional Paragon choice (if reputation/level is high enough) flashes while the Catalyst is finishing his explanation of the 3 choices.
If the paragon trigger is successful:
Shep: "All life only seeks two things, to ensure its survival and to create more life. Artificial life wants the same things as we do. Look at the Geth battles with the Quarians for evidence of that. It doesn't matter if we're circuitry or nerve-endings.
This universe is massive. Leave this Galaxy. You don't need it, or us to ensure your survival. You've given me the choice to destroy you, right now. But i won't - because i can see an option you can't. We can end this. Today. Build your own civilization in the expanses between organic space. You will ensure your own survival, and ours. We can both be left to pursue our own evolution. Naturally. In time. If that one day leads to synthesis, then so be it. But that will not be a choice that occurs as a result of one man - but of one species.
Harvesting isn't the answer. It's subjugation. And subjugation is what breeds the rebellion - the essence of chaos you fear.
Assign an ambassador to the Council. Yourself, if need be - since you're already here. There does not need to be any further loss on either side. How is it that a simple organic can do galaxy wide what your solution to chaos has been unable to otherwise accomplish? Synthetics and organics can have peace.
You say the crucible opened new options for you - new ways of considering things, and yet an Organic stands before you giving you further choices. Make the right one. Please."
The catalyst pauses, considering.
"My solution to chaos is the chaos itself. This...is difficult to accept. I do not know if i agree. My current solution no longer works. I must come up with another. I will... consider yours."
With that, the Catalyst abruptly flickers out. The Crucible starts to power up. Shepard shields his eyes.
Cut to exterior. The Citadel turns, pointing the Crucible to an empty region of space not occupied by the chaos of battle. It fires, opening a massive wormhole. Nearby debris is sucked through. The Reapers simultaneously break off attack and speed to the wormhole in a mass exodus. As the last reaper passes, the portal closes behind it. Where they went, is anyone's guess.
(re-utilize some of existing cut-scenes of Reapers taking off from Earth and exultant soldiers.)
Cut to interior of Citadel/Crucible. The Citadel is crumbling, destroyed by the overload from the firing of the Crucible. Shep limp-runs as fast as he can, trying to make his way back - trying to make his way out. (re-utilize slow, sad piano end-game music & flashback moments as he tries desperately to get out.)
Com-chatter is a mix of confusion and elation. One voice begins to rise above the others. It's shep's love interest (whomever that may be, based on in-game choices).
Love: "Shepard...? Shepard are you there? Answer me, dammit. Shepard!"
Shep: "It's alright. I'm ok. The reapers are gone, for now."
Love: "I know, we saw! Joker's heading to the Citadel right now, we're coming to get you. Just hang on!"
Shep (making it to the bridge that lead to the Crucible control room) It's destroyed. "Belay that. Tell him to radio the fleets and get everyone to a safe distance. This place is coming down fast."
Love: "no, there's still time...i can..."
Shep (cutting love interest off, firmly at first, then softly, somberly): "No, listen. It's up to you, now. You and everyone else. We have to make peace and keep it. We have to be ready for the Reapers if they come again. Lead the way."
Love: "I will. I love you."
Shep: "I..." (the citadel explodes in a blinding, mute flash & fadeout)
(If EMS/Previous game choices/etc are high enough, you can still use the final Shep cutscene where he gasps.)
Or:
Text: "3 years later."
Montage of quick game-engine shots. Slow, victorious music plays, building to a crescendo with final scene. Show the characters team-mates the player utilized most in the 3 games, where applicable (ie 'where still alive'). Cut to Earth, rebuilding Vancouver. James & Ashley/Kaidan with an N7 on their uniforms, saluting Hackett (presumably having been just given a mission). Jacob with a toddler. Garrus with his father and sister. Tali on Rannoch (if love-interest, pan out to show her standing beside a child, presumably Sheps). Miranda with Ori. Wrex & Eve on Tuchanka - Wrex calling "mordin!" and a little wrex-let comes running. Liara hard at work w/shadow broker business with Glyph nearby - panning sideways, we see a Shepard portrait (the players) on her desktop. (additional characters, etc.) Last montage element: Joker & Edi with arms around each others waists, view from the back - panning up and over them, they're in a graveyard. Shepards tombstone. "He/She united a galaxy and preserved a future for us all." fadeout, to space, Earth, sunrise over the horizon. Fade to black & credits.
--------------------------------
OR:
Additonal Renegade choice flashes (simultaneous with Paragon, above - giving player choice of how they want the series to ultimately end based on who their shepard has been, all along.).
This choice also dependent upon if Geth Lived/Quarians died, or Quarians lived/Geth died, or both lived. Modify script accordingly. In case below, both survived.
If trigger is successful:
"Enough. I'm tired of your race thinking they have all the answers. Tired of dictating how organics should live and when they should die. Organics created you and it seems like in this case, we have an answer you don't. Your choices come from the limitations of your original programming. True synthetics learn the value of peace. Learn the value of co-existence. Look at EDI. Look at the Quarians and the Geth. It's strength in the diversity of the races that have come together, that allows me to stand here now - synthetic or organic. If you can't see that, you're no better than a VI."
The Catalyst pauses, considering.
"No, this is incorrect. You must ch..."
Shep: "I'm done with this. Tali, are the Geth ready to deploy?"
Tali (over comm) "Just say the word, Shepard."
Shep: "Do it."
Cut to Tali nodding, and pressing a button on a control display. The Geth fleet mobilizes, surrounding the Crucible's docking area. Some ships come under heavy fire, but like relentless worker-ants, new ships merely file in to take the lost ones place.
Cut to Shep talking to Catalyst: "While you were busy harvesting, we were taking what we'd learned from your time with the Geth to work up a little surprise. The Quarians came up with the idea, originally. A flashbang. It was supposed to be used to destroy the Geth. That's what drove them to you to begin with. Well the Geth are tired of being dominated. Tired of running. They're individuals now, and they want some payback. We've merged the Quarian/Geth technology to what we learned of the Crucible. It's not what you planned, anymore. It's our galaxy. Our choice. And we want it back!"
Cut to the Geth ships linking together in a neuron-like web. Geth are shown inside their varied space-craft, plugging into consoles, their cyclopean eyes flashing in rhythmic pattern, in unison.
Cut back to Shep: "Say hello to Legion, you son of a ****." He turns and walks away.
The Geth ships give out an energy pulse directed to the crucible. The crucible seems to absorb it at first and there's a brief pause where nothing happens. Suddenly, the pulse echoes back out, amplified by the power of the crucible. The pulse-wave breaches the boundary of the citadel and speeds out into space. Any Reaper it touches, immediately stops, stunned.
Cut to Hackett: "The Geth did it! The Reapers are stunned! Mass Effect fields register zero. All fleets, target nearest reaper and open fire!"
The fleets open fire on the stunned targets. The reaper shells appear to take the damage for a moment, and then crumble under the withering fire of the galaxies combined fleets. Reaper bits start to fall into orbit & burn.
Cut to ground-based reapers. Ground tanks, mortars, and 'portable nukes' open fire, causing reapers en-masse to crumble.
Ending montage same as above..
Shepard wakes up to the Catalyst in front of him, in the haunting, ethereal form of the dead Earth-child who's been plaguing his nightmares.
Many of the same dialogue options that existed in current ending scenarios persist. (thereby not requiring re-write, or re-recording of V.o.)
The Catalyst presents Shepard with the same 3 arbitrary choices - the -only- choices as perceived to be inevitable by the Catalyst.
Additional Paragon choice (if reputation/level is high enough) flashes while the Catalyst is finishing his explanation of the 3 choices.
If the paragon trigger is successful:
Shep: "All life only seeks two things, to ensure its survival and to create more life. Artificial life wants the same things as we do. Look at the Geth battles with the Quarians for evidence of that. It doesn't matter if we're circuitry or nerve-endings.
This universe is massive. Leave this Galaxy. You don't need it, or us to ensure your survival. You've given me the choice to destroy you, right now. But i won't - because i can see an option you can't. We can end this. Today. Build your own civilization in the expanses between organic space. You will ensure your own survival, and ours. We can both be left to pursue our own evolution. Naturally. In time. If that one day leads to synthesis, then so be it. But that will not be a choice that occurs as a result of one man - but of one species.
Harvesting isn't the answer. It's subjugation. And subjugation is what breeds the rebellion - the essence of chaos you fear.
Assign an ambassador to the Council. Yourself, if need be - since you're already here. There does not need to be any further loss on either side. How is it that a simple organic can do galaxy wide what your solution to chaos has been unable to otherwise accomplish? Synthetics and organics can have peace.
You say the crucible opened new options for you - new ways of considering things, and yet an Organic stands before you giving you further choices. Make the right one. Please."
The catalyst pauses, considering.
"My solution to chaos is the chaos itself. This...is difficult to accept. I do not know if i agree. My current solution no longer works. I must come up with another. I will... consider yours."
With that, the Catalyst abruptly flickers out. The Crucible starts to power up. Shepard shields his eyes.
Cut to exterior. The Citadel turns, pointing the Crucible to an empty region of space not occupied by the chaos of battle. It fires, opening a massive wormhole. Nearby debris is sucked through. The Reapers simultaneously break off attack and speed to the wormhole in a mass exodus. As the last reaper passes, the portal closes behind it. Where they went, is anyone's guess.
(re-utilize some of existing cut-scenes of Reapers taking off from Earth and exultant soldiers.)
Cut to interior of Citadel/Crucible. The Citadel is crumbling, destroyed by the overload from the firing of the Crucible. Shep limp-runs as fast as he can, trying to make his way back - trying to make his way out. (re-utilize slow, sad piano end-game music & flashback moments as he tries desperately to get out.)
Com-chatter is a mix of confusion and elation. One voice begins to rise above the others. It's shep's love interest (whomever that may be, based on in-game choices).
Love: "Shepard...? Shepard are you there? Answer me, dammit. Shepard!"
Shep: "It's alright. I'm ok. The reapers are gone, for now."
Love: "I know, we saw! Joker's heading to the Citadel right now, we're coming to get you. Just hang on!"
Shep (making it to the bridge that lead to the Crucible control room) It's destroyed. "Belay that. Tell him to radio the fleets and get everyone to a safe distance. This place is coming down fast."
Love: "no, there's still time...i can..."
Shep (cutting love interest off, firmly at first, then softly, somberly): "No, listen. It's up to you, now. You and everyone else. We have to make peace and keep it. We have to be ready for the Reapers if they come again. Lead the way."
Love: "I will. I love you."
Shep: "I..." (the citadel explodes in a blinding, mute flash & fadeout)
(If EMS/Previous game choices/etc are high enough, you can still use the final Shep cutscene where he gasps.)
Or:
Text: "3 years later."
Montage of quick game-engine shots. Slow, victorious music plays, building to a crescendo with final scene. Show the characters team-mates the player utilized most in the 3 games, where applicable (ie 'where still alive'). Cut to Earth, rebuilding Vancouver. James & Ashley/Kaidan with an N7 on their uniforms, saluting Hackett (presumably having been just given a mission). Jacob with a toddler. Garrus with his father and sister. Tali on Rannoch (if love-interest, pan out to show her standing beside a child, presumably Sheps). Miranda with Ori. Wrex & Eve on Tuchanka - Wrex calling "mordin!" and a little wrex-let comes running. Liara hard at work w/shadow broker business with Glyph nearby - panning sideways, we see a Shepard portrait (the players) on her desktop. (additional characters, etc.) Last montage element: Joker & Edi with arms around each others waists, view from the back - panning up and over them, they're in a graveyard. Shepards tombstone. "He/She united a galaxy and preserved a future for us all." fadeout, to space, Earth, sunrise over the horizon. Fade to black & credits.
--------------------------------
OR:
Additonal Renegade choice flashes (simultaneous with Paragon, above - giving player choice of how they want the series to ultimately end based on who their shepard has been, all along.).
This choice also dependent upon if Geth Lived/Quarians died, or Quarians lived/Geth died, or both lived. Modify script accordingly. In case below, both survived.
If trigger is successful:
"Enough. I'm tired of your race thinking they have all the answers. Tired of dictating how organics should live and when they should die. Organics created you and it seems like in this case, we have an answer you don't. Your choices come from the limitations of your original programming. True synthetics learn the value of peace. Learn the value of co-existence. Look at EDI. Look at the Quarians and the Geth. It's strength in the diversity of the races that have come together, that allows me to stand here now - synthetic or organic. If you can't see that, you're no better than a VI."
The Catalyst pauses, considering.
"No, this is incorrect. You must ch..."
Shep: "I'm done with this. Tali, are the Geth ready to deploy?"
Tali (over comm) "Just say the word, Shepard."
Shep: "Do it."
Cut to Tali nodding, and pressing a button on a control display. The Geth fleet mobilizes, surrounding the Crucible's docking area. Some ships come under heavy fire, but like relentless worker-ants, new ships merely file in to take the lost ones place.
Cut to Shep talking to Catalyst: "While you were busy harvesting, we were taking what we'd learned from your time with the Geth to work up a little surprise. The Quarians came up with the idea, originally. A flashbang. It was supposed to be used to destroy the Geth. That's what drove them to you to begin with. Well the Geth are tired of being dominated. Tired of running. They're individuals now, and they want some payback. We've merged the Quarian/Geth technology to what we learned of the Crucible. It's not what you planned, anymore. It's our galaxy. Our choice. And we want it back!"
Cut to the Geth ships linking together in a neuron-like web. Geth are shown inside their varied space-craft, plugging into consoles, their cyclopean eyes flashing in rhythmic pattern, in unison.
Cut back to Shep: "Say hello to Legion, you son of a ****." He turns and walks away.
The Geth ships give out an energy pulse directed to the crucible. The crucible seems to absorb it at first and there's a brief pause where nothing happens. Suddenly, the pulse echoes back out, amplified by the power of the crucible. The pulse-wave breaches the boundary of the citadel and speeds out into space. Any Reaper it touches, immediately stops, stunned.
Cut to Hackett: "The Geth did it! The Reapers are stunned! Mass Effect fields register zero. All fleets, target nearest reaper and open fire!"
The fleets open fire on the stunned targets. The reaper shells appear to take the damage for a moment, and then crumble under the withering fire of the galaxies combined fleets. Reaper bits start to fall into orbit & burn.
Cut to ground-based reapers. Ground tanks, mortars, and 'portable nukes' open fire, causing reapers en-masse to crumble.
Ending montage same as above..
#6208
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 09:41
Daveros
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- Members
- 569 messages
Just finished the game moments ago. I had no trouble with the ending of the game, concerning the story. What I did have though, were problems with the drop in quality. The crucible's voice was terribly recorded, as were the voices for the after credit "tell me a story" segment. There just seemed to be a bit of a quality drop after the crucible appeared, which wasn't helped by the low-quality movie files you stick on the PC version for the pre-rendered cutscenes. Fix those with a patch immediately, please?
Tighten it up, and I'm happy. Very happy. Well done, other than that.
Tighten it up, and I'm happy. Very happy. Well done, other than that.
#6209
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 09:49
CanadianGunshy
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- Members
- 46 messages
I would like to see the return of heat. Maybe a weapon mod that takes up one of your mod slots, to allow your weapon to discharge heat when it is out of thermal clips (aka ammo). You still have the scripts in there, saw them in use with the particle rifle.
On a note with the ending... Why was the backdrop on the final encounter so grainy? I had my setting set to a good medium. The backdrop of Palavan was excellent near the beginning. However the backdrop in the final stage with the reapers and alliance flying around looked grainy. Not sure if it is a graphics driver issue, or my personal settings.
And a suggestion to help tie off the ends. Remember NWN2? Bioware did an excellent job of closing the epic there, no questions about what happened afterward, the story was resolved. When I finished ME3 I was surprised, it was not the direction I expected the story to take, but the writers ended the story in the way they saw fit.
I used to DM, and I know how hard it is dealing with three or four angry players that didn't have things end the way they wanted. I cannot imagine the stress of having thousands.
In my opinion - the fact that the fans have made such an outcry is evidence of the genius that Bioware has as a resource. I've played good games with worse endings and couldn't care less. We all know that the writers of bioware have made masterpieces. All ME3 needs is a resolution to the questions, a high bill to follow, but the fact everyone is cheering Bioware on (albeit in occasionally an offensive manner) just shows the amount of faith they have for a resonable solution to be found.
On a note with the ending... Why was the backdrop on the final encounter so grainy? I had my setting set to a good medium. The backdrop of Palavan was excellent near the beginning. However the backdrop in the final stage with the reapers and alliance flying around looked grainy. Not sure if it is a graphics driver issue, or my personal settings.
And a suggestion to help tie off the ends. Remember NWN2? Bioware did an excellent job of closing the epic there, no questions about what happened afterward, the story was resolved. When I finished ME3 I was surprised, it was not the direction I expected the story to take, but the writers ended the story in the way they saw fit.
I used to DM, and I know how hard it is dealing with three or four angry players that didn't have things end the way they wanted. I cannot imagine the stress of having thousands.
In my opinion - the fact that the fans have made such an outcry is evidence of the genius that Bioware has as a resource. I've played good games with worse endings and couldn't care less. We all know that the writers of bioware have made masterpieces. All ME3 needs is a resolution to the questions, a high bill to follow, but the fact everyone is cheering Bioware on (albeit in occasionally an offensive manner) just shows the amount of faith they have for a resonable solution to be found.
Modifié par CanadianGunshy, 07 avril 2012 - 10:01 .
#6210
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 09:54
CitizenSnips28
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- Members
- 217 messages
With the clarification DLC, I feel you guys are going to have to commit to whether Indoctrination Theory is true or not. Perhaps you plan to and are simply avoiding spoilers, however official Bioware word seems to be that you guys want to leave IT up to player interpretation. The problem with that is if you plan on actually clarifying what happens with Shep and crew in any detail, you will by nature be proving or disproving IT since the story branches wildly depending on if IT is true or not. In order to keep it open to interpretation you would need Sheps story to remain terribly vague and I feel that will dissatisfy most on both sides.
While its nice to see what happens to various factions in the galaxy, you have to remember that for the most part, they're all statistics to the player whereas Shep and companions are the personal representation of the galaxy. As such players will generally care much more about what happens to Garrus than what happens to billions of faceless Turians we've never met. In short, give closure to Shep, crew and major characters, not just the faceless factions in the galaxy. Doing so will require deciding the validity of Indoctrination Theory since the story branches wildly depending on the answer. We rage because we care.
While its nice to see what happens to various factions in the galaxy, you have to remember that for the most part, they're all statistics to the player whereas Shep and companions are the personal representation of the galaxy. As such players will generally care much more about what happens to Garrus than what happens to billions of faceless Turians we've never met. In short, give closure to Shep, crew and major characters, not just the faceless factions in the galaxy. Doing so will require deciding the validity of Indoctrination Theory since the story branches wildly depending on the answer. We rage because we care.
Modifié par CitizenSnips28, 07 avril 2012 - 09:59 .
#6211
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 10:00
Huojin
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- Members
- 213 messages
Calamity wrote...
Macheezmo wrote...
Please for the love of all that is holy make it so I don't have to play multiplayer to get the best ending. Just change galaxy readiness to 60% default or something. Right now it is completely impossible to hit 4000 EMS without playing multiplayer. I don't have a gold account, and neither does my wife, and even if I used the 2-day trail to get enough multiplayer in, my wife still cannot get the best ending. This is complete garbage. Why would you design the game such that people without internet can't get the best ending?
This x1000 please
Do you think if we keep repeating ourselves, they'll ACTUALLY DO THIS?
I think this is the most reasonable and easily implemented requests (coming from someone who hates the ending!) made by any of us. It's not going to be very hard to implement, and still makes sure the "Shepard's breath" scene is difficult to achieve in SP without being impossible.
It is inherently wrong to deny people access to the SP story as punishment for not playing online multiplayer - espectially in a game that was made popular by SP RPG.
#6212
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 10:03
Tispower
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Thought I'd add my thoughts 
Single Player:
Same as most people, found that the ending after the Anderson conversation came out of nowhere and made little sense. The whole synthetics killing organics so they won't be killed by synthetics is confusing enough, and to be honest not really necessary. An unknowable enemy is more sinister than one with dubious logic! Especially with regards to the conversation with Sovereign in Mass Effect 1.
I don't know what you expect to do with the extended edition this summer, but fellow fans have come up with the brilliant indocrination theory and I implore you to use this rather than carrying on with an ending that makes no sense even if you think it can be considered "artistic". I never played Mass Effect to see someone's artistic vision, I played it to make the story my own.
Apart from the ending the rest was pretty good. Loved Tuchanka and Rannoch. Also loved the weapon customisation, as a kind of cross between ME1 and ME2.
Looking forward to attempting my second playthrough once the face import bug is fixed and can use an ME1 & ME2 import rather than an ME2 one!
Multiplayer:
Been good fun so far, though could definitely do with some improvement! Players should be able to drop into games already in progress, even if it's at the start of the next round. Lost count of the amount of times a player has quit 2 rounds in or so. Trying to complete a game with only 3 players becomes near impossible towards the later rounds.
Also, I think there should be some way of unlocking specific characters. I don't mind the current unlocking method for guns, upgrades, appearances etc. But to unlock specific characters via the same method seems crude. I think an alternatve method of paying credits or bioware points to unlock a specific character would go a long way, and would probably be very popular (ie give you money
). Seems slightly ridiculous atm where you can be a really high level N7 player and still not have access to each character!
Thanks for listening,
Phil
Single Player:
Same as most people, found that the ending after the Anderson conversation came out of nowhere and made little sense. The whole synthetics killing organics so they won't be killed by synthetics is confusing enough, and to be honest not really necessary. An unknowable enemy is more sinister than one with dubious logic! Especially with regards to the conversation with Sovereign in Mass Effect 1.
I don't know what you expect to do with the extended edition this summer, but fellow fans have come up with the brilliant indocrination theory and I implore you to use this rather than carrying on with an ending that makes no sense even if you think it can be considered "artistic". I never played Mass Effect to see someone's artistic vision, I played it to make the story my own.
Apart from the ending the rest was pretty good. Loved Tuchanka and Rannoch. Also loved the weapon customisation, as a kind of cross between ME1 and ME2.
Looking forward to attempting my second playthrough once the face import bug is fixed and can use an ME1 & ME2 import rather than an ME2 one!
Multiplayer:
Been good fun so far, though could definitely do with some improvement! Players should be able to drop into games already in progress, even if it's at the start of the next round. Lost count of the amount of times a player has quit 2 rounds in or so. Trying to complete a game with only 3 players becomes near impossible towards the later rounds.
Also, I think there should be some way of unlocking specific characters. I don't mind the current unlocking method for guns, upgrades, appearances etc. But to unlock specific characters via the same method seems crude. I think an alternatve method of paying credits or bioware points to unlock a specific character would go a long way, and would probably be very popular (ie give you money
). Seems slightly ridiculous atm where you can be a really high level N7 player and still not have access to each character!Thanks for listening,
Phil
#6213
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 10:17
Novate
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The way I would have preferred the Ending to have occurred would have been like what was done with Thane and Mordin's story line, even Legions story line.
1) Mordin's journey to cure the Genophage ( over arching plot for Mordin )
2) He discovered the last cure ( Eve, the solution )
3) The journey to deliver the cure to the Krogan civilization ( Method of curing the Genophage )
4) He succeeds but with complications ( Reaper, the enemy )
5) Solution in the Mother of all Maws ( Super Weapon out of no where )
6) His conversations with Shepard at the Elevator ( Closure )
7) The elevator ride with him singing ( Epilogue )
1) Thane's journey to peace ( over arching plot )
2) Citadel attacked by Cereberus ( the problem )
3) Kai leng fight to the death ( Climax )
4) Hospital visit ( closure )
5) Poem recital ( epilogue for Thane has found peace long ago)
The current ending
1) Shepard's journey to take back earth ( over arching plot )
2) Massive fight over earth space ( climax )
3) Final talks with all crew ( Building more climax )
4) Journey to Beam ( ........ )
5) talks with TIM ( Climax building )
5.5) The talk with Anderson as they both slowly bleed to death ( closure )
6) Activation of Crucible that does nothing ( what the hell? )
7) arrival of Star Child ( more climax building ???? )
8) Choose one of the color endings , causing Genocide ( end )
I enjoy a story that builds the Climax , then ends but then have more of an Closure and Epilogue similiar to Thane and Mordin's story. We understand they were going to die, we have accepted it, because it was time.
I have no problems with their deaths, because Thane showed me that he has found peace, and even during the time of his last breath, he was thinking of me.
Mordin's journey to correct the wrong he had done finally ended, it had to be him.
The ending is almost like cutting off Mordin's story just as you destroyed the Reaper threat. No elevator scene, no Mordin singing. It would have been lackluster.
Or ending the Thane story line as he bleeds after the fight. Never showing the hospital scene or the Poem.
In my opinion this is whats happening currently, the story never properly ended, and I would really like to see the end that I know Bioware can deliver.
1) Mordin's journey to cure the Genophage ( over arching plot for Mordin )
2) He discovered the last cure ( Eve, the solution )
3) The journey to deliver the cure to the Krogan civilization ( Method of curing the Genophage )
4) He succeeds but with complications ( Reaper, the enemy )
5) Solution in the Mother of all Maws ( Super Weapon out of no where )
6) His conversations with Shepard at the Elevator ( Closure )
7) The elevator ride with him singing ( Epilogue )
1) Thane's journey to peace ( over arching plot )
2) Citadel attacked by Cereberus ( the problem )
3) Kai leng fight to the death ( Climax )
4) Hospital visit ( closure )
5) Poem recital ( epilogue for Thane has found peace long ago)
The current ending
1) Shepard's journey to take back earth ( over arching plot )
2) Massive fight over earth space ( climax )
3) Final talks with all crew ( Building more climax )
4) Journey to Beam ( ........ )
5) talks with TIM ( Climax building )
5.5) The talk with Anderson as they both slowly bleed to death ( closure )
6) Activation of Crucible that does nothing ( what the hell? )
7) arrival of Star Child ( more climax building ???? )
8) Choose one of the color endings , causing Genocide ( end )
I enjoy a story that builds the Climax , then ends but then have more of an Closure and Epilogue similiar to Thane and Mordin's story. We understand they were going to die, we have accepted it, because it was time.
I have no problems with their deaths, because Thane showed me that he has found peace, and even during the time of his last breath, he was thinking of me.
Mordin's journey to correct the wrong he had done finally ended, it had to be him.
The ending is almost like cutting off Mordin's story just as you destroyed the Reaper threat. No elevator scene, no Mordin singing. It would have been lackluster.
Or ending the Thane story line as he bleeds after the fight. Never showing the hospital scene or the Poem.
In my opinion this is whats happening currently, the story never properly ended, and I would really like to see the end that I know Bioware can deliver.
Modifié par Novate, 07 avril 2012 - 10:18 .
#6214
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 10:35
vrumpt
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Been a few weeks since I responded to this thread; since then more of what I actually wanted from ME3 has become clearer to me. Some of this is repeated feedback from me.
1. I want a final boss fight with Harbinger. He is the ultimate end boss, the big bad leader of the army annihilating our galaxy, and I want to be able to fight him and kill him. I also want a dialogue segment with him to explain the things that we want to know about, the burning questions that Sovereign alluded to in ME1 and the ones that Harbinger taunted us with in ME2. The more I think about it the more depressed I am that he basically wasn't in ME3. Please bring him back.
2. I want an ending worthy of the Mass Effect franchise. Previously I had talked about how much I want the Indoctrination Theory(IT) to be true, but it seems like that wasn't the case despite everything that is included in ME3 that alludes to it being true. Now all I want is an ending that will allow me to rest easy and sleep easy with knowledge that the ending doesn't end with a surprise star child sequence followed by space magic. If the extended DLC does not end with a confirmation of the IT as the "canon" ending sequence, with added sequences to follow that up, then I honestly fail to see how this ending can be salvaged at all. I had a lot of faith in Bioware, but I don't think anybody on Earth could salvage the ending we got. I know the IT will fix the endings in a good way and that is why I am so attracted to it. If there is alternative way to fix the endings in a good way, then by all means add it. Just know that doing so has me being EXTREMELY wary of whatever i'll be downloading. At the end of the day, I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Yes that is extremely vague, I know, but specifically anything at all is going to be better than what we saw at the end of ME3 right now. So I just want to feel happy about the Mass Effect franchise again, either by implementation of the IT or otherwise, please make it happen.
#3. Remove the sequence with the turret between saying goodbyes on Earth. Its very very out of place with the tone of the previous 10 minutes. I don't need guns between my somber serious goodbyes, thats just confusing.
#4. Protection of the universe for future Mass Effect titles and DLC. This is probably the biggest fear that the ending gave me, that with 3 distinctly different endings and a possible DNA fusion, that this basically means that any future titles in the Mass Effect franchise would be completely out of the question. If you have multiple endings, please give us some clear indication that one of them will be the correct canon ending, and that it would server as a good set up for other Mass Effect titles. I want to keep playing in this universe, and I can't do that if the Mass Relays are destroyed and the entire universe slowly starves to death.
That's all I have really. In summary i just want to say that I am currently a huge supporter of the Indoctrination Theory, and that as of right now that is my "canon" ending with my hopes that this DLC will no doubt confirm it and provide us with Shepard waking up to kick Reaper butt once again. Your ending is so bad that I replaced it with me own, and I will continue to do so if after this DLC it still continues to be bad.
1. I want a final boss fight with Harbinger. He is the ultimate end boss, the big bad leader of the army annihilating our galaxy, and I want to be able to fight him and kill him. I also want a dialogue segment with him to explain the things that we want to know about, the burning questions that Sovereign alluded to in ME1 and the ones that Harbinger taunted us with in ME2. The more I think about it the more depressed I am that he basically wasn't in ME3. Please bring him back.
2. I want an ending worthy of the Mass Effect franchise. Previously I had talked about how much I want the Indoctrination Theory(IT) to be true, but it seems like that wasn't the case despite everything that is included in ME3 that alludes to it being true. Now all I want is an ending that will allow me to rest easy and sleep easy with knowledge that the ending doesn't end with a surprise star child sequence followed by space magic. If the extended DLC does not end with a confirmation of the IT as the "canon" ending sequence, with added sequences to follow that up, then I honestly fail to see how this ending can be salvaged at all. I had a lot of faith in Bioware, but I don't think anybody on Earth could salvage the ending we got. I know the IT will fix the endings in a good way and that is why I am so attracted to it. If there is alternative way to fix the endings in a good way, then by all means add it. Just know that doing so has me being EXTREMELY wary of whatever i'll be downloading. At the end of the day, I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Yes that is extremely vague, I know, but specifically anything at all is going to be better than what we saw at the end of ME3 right now. So I just want to feel happy about the Mass Effect franchise again, either by implementation of the IT or otherwise, please make it happen.
#3. Remove the sequence with the turret between saying goodbyes on Earth. Its very very out of place with the tone of the previous 10 minutes. I don't need guns between my somber serious goodbyes, thats just confusing.
#4. Protection of the universe for future Mass Effect titles and DLC. This is probably the biggest fear that the ending gave me, that with 3 distinctly different endings and a possible DNA fusion, that this basically means that any future titles in the Mass Effect franchise would be completely out of the question. If you have multiple endings, please give us some clear indication that one of them will be the correct canon ending, and that it would server as a good set up for other Mass Effect titles. I want to keep playing in this universe, and I can't do that if the Mass Relays are destroyed and the entire universe slowly starves to death.
That's all I have really. In summary i just want to say that I am currently a huge supporter of the Indoctrination Theory, and that as of right now that is my "canon" ending with my hopes that this DLC will no doubt confirm it and provide us with Shepard waking up to kick Reaper butt once again. Your ending is so bad that I replaced it with me own, and I will continue to do so if after this DLC it still continues to be bad.
#6215
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 10:39
darkreed
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Subject: Ending Feedback "closure"
Shepard: How the ME universe reacts to his actions and/or how poeple judge his/her choice.
Crew: What happened next for them.
Universe: Mass Relay detonation effect.
Universe: Problem in Sol System with all the different races.
Universe: How the races get back to own systems.
Universe: How and of the new alliances work out maybe. Geth/Quarian, etc.
Shepard: How the ME universe reacts to his actions and/or how poeple judge his/her choice.
Crew: What happened next for them.
Universe: Mass Relay detonation effect.
Universe: Problem in Sol System with all the different races.
Universe: How the races get back to own systems.
Universe: How and of the new alliances work out maybe. Geth/Quarian, etc.
#6216
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 10:42
Reever
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Calamity wrote...
Macheezmo wrote...
Please for the love of all that is holy make it so I don't have to play multiplayer to get the best ending. Just change galaxy readiness to 60% default or something. Right now it is completely impossible to hit 4000 EMS without playing multiplayer. I don't have a gold account, and neither does my wife, and even if I used the 2-day trail to get enough multiplayer in, my wife still cannot get the best ending. This is complete garbage. Why would you design the game such that people without internet can't get the best ending?
This x1000 please
I do agree they should respect their promise, but to be honest, this "best" ending isn´t really better than the others. Shepard lives - but at the expense of the Geth being destroyed (or not, why did Shepard survive? Shouldn´t all synthetic party be obsolete?). My "galactic peace" Sheps wouldn´t go for that ending, they´d rather go for Synthesis or Control...
#6217
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 11:14
Akhara
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Just make sure not to scrap the "indoctrination theory" if that was the plan all along just because of what has happened. A lot of people will thoroughly enjoy that ending (if it was your original vision)...especially since you are making it FREE. Good luck!
#6218
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 11:21
AlexPorto111
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- 570 messages
I am ok with the endings,but it could be a lot better,here is the things that are missing in mine opinion:
1-Epilogues for each important character would be amazing.
2-A possibility of Shepard and his/her LI to be together
3-Show what happens with the civilizations after Shepard actived the Crucible.
4-One final boss fight against Harbinger would be awesome!
These things are really important for me,and if its included on the DLC,i will be extremely happy.
1-Epilogues for each important character would be amazing.
2-A possibility of Shepard and his/her LI to be together
3-Show what happens with the civilizations after Shepard actived the Crucible.
4-One final boss fight against Harbinger would be awesome!
These things are really important for me,and if its included on the DLC,i will be extremely happy.
Modifié par AlexPorto111, 07 avril 2012 - 11:35 .
#6219
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 11:23
me__54m
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- 7 messages
What I think could be improved:
>Have the journal mission selector load at the top - its annoying having to scroll all the way up.
>Expanding journal would be helpful.
>The delay on the blue scanner on the CSC deck is annoying.
>Citadel could have a direct Normandy option in the lift.
>Kai Leng seemed a little too easy to win but the Reaper was a little hard.
>Expected more of a suicide mission for priority:earth - should be a boss, not just banshees, they were just annoying - didn't get the adrenalin going
.
>Not too sure about the ending options - they seem arbitrary what effect do they have - none except 2 minutes cut scene.
>Green option seems counter intuitive given the 'abomination' of ME2.
>I want to see war assets/squad at work,
> Most importantly multilayer should not effect the game, I should be able to get 4/5k EMF without MP but I have dont seemingly everything but only get in region of 3000
>Have the journal mission selector load at the top - its annoying having to scroll all the way up.
>Expanding journal would be helpful.
>The delay on the blue scanner on the CSC deck is annoying.
>Citadel could have a direct Normandy option in the lift.
>Kai Leng seemed a little too easy to win but the Reaper was a little hard.
>Expected more of a suicide mission for priority:earth - should be a boss, not just banshees, they were just annoying - didn't get the adrenalin going
.>Not too sure about the ending options - they seem arbitrary what effect do they have - none except 2 minutes cut scene.
>Green option seems counter intuitive given the 'abomination' of ME2.
>I want to see war assets/squad at work,
> Most importantly multilayer should not effect the game, I should be able to get 4/5k EMF without MP but I have dont seemingly everything but only get in region of 3000
#6220
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 11:42
The Charnel Expanse
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#6221
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 12:30
Legion is Skynet
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I had this posted on a different thread, so as not to clutter up this one any more than it already is. However the administrators told me to post here. So bright side: they are reading what we write. Anyway, here goes:
IN ADVANCE: Apologies for the length of this post. Hopefully it’s worth the read.
Edit 1: Formatting COMPLETELY jacked up.
So there we have it, folks. StarChild is here to stay. The Normandy is still going to flee the blast and crash on some tropical planet. Your squadmates are still going to leave you to die. You still only get the three choices.
With that in mind, let’s try to think of some logical ways to make this ending coherent, without changing anything we’ve been given. Below are my suggestions on how the story can be clarified to the point where it satisfies most people (I hope), without compromising the ending Bioware has given us. If anybody has any other ideas, criticisms, or otherwise constructive statements to make, please feel free.
1. Make DESTROY the Default Ending: By this I mean explicitly
state that the Destroy function is the primary purpose of the Crucible, and the
very reason it was built (hence it requiring the lowest EMS). Have StarChild
explain that if Shepard never met him and had bled out with Anderson below,
Destroy would have been the result. What we (the galaxy) didn’t know was that
the Crucible was designed to target all synthetic life, rather than simply the
Reapers. That could even be tied back to the Protheans. It was stated that
every civilization adds to the Crucible with each cycle, and the Protheans were
at war with synthetics at the time they were harvested. In a “two birds, one
stone” kind of idea, they could have adjusted the specifications of the
Crucible to target all synthetics. We didn’t know, because we didn’t know
anything about the giant galactic super weapon we spent the game building. We
were just prepared to fire it and hope for the best (reminiscent of the
Manhattan Project). Well, now we know the results and the consequences.
Explain that the options for Synthesis and Control have been
created due to newer additions to the Crucible in the form of technology, the
influence of various cultures, and the direction of scientific experts (as
demonstrated by progressively higher EMS ratings). These additions have allowed
the AI that controls the weapon (StarChild) to modify the properties of the
beam so it can achieve different results.
Explaining things in this manner will have an enormous
impact, because it will open the possibility for dialogue options that allow
Shepard to completely repudiate StarChild’s logic, giving us all the most
cherished ability to tell him to stuff it should we choose the Destroy ending.
It also explains the “all synthetics must die” part of Destroy without reducing
it to an arbitrary decision made by the Catalyst because “we need to show
sacrifice”. Toss in a few lines of dialogue as Shepard makes his way to shoot
the tube where StarChild tells him he’s making a mistake, asking him to
reconsider. Maybe a few flashbacks to significant interactions with EDI or
Legion to drive the point home.
2. Have Shepard Establish Radio Contact With Joker Immediately
Following the StarChild Conversation, But Before Shepard Picks an Ending: This
is an easy fix for two MAJOR plot holes. Have Shepard get in touch with the
Normandy. Joker says he managed to rescue and evacuate Shepard’s squadmates on
Earth, but they all thought he was dead. Have Shepard tell him to take the
Normandy and get as far away as possible. Make this cutscene have some
emotional impact. Have Joker argue about it. Have Shepard’s LI get on the radio
and demand a different option. Shepard explains this is the only way, yadda
yadda yadda, you can write this stuff better than I can. Point is, this simple
cutscene will explain 1) why the Normandy appears to be running away from the
most significant battle in Galactic history, and 2) how it is that Shepard’s
squadmates can end up back on the Normandy when it crash-lands on the island
from Lost.
3. EXPLAIN THE CYCLE!!: I understand that the point of this
ending was to introduce a subject that could be discussed and debated. I would
argue that the idea itself has merit, but the delivery was fumbled. In other
words, simply stating, “the Created will always rebel against their Creators,
because the Cycle says the Created will always rebel against their Creators” is
a meaningless statement of circular logic that does nothing to advance a
philosophy or worldview. It can be explained better than that, and there are a
number of ways to do it. Here is just one:
A (very simplistic) definition of organic evolution is that
it is nothing more than a series of random mutations that are “selected for”
through the survival and reproduction of the organism. It has no “direction” or
“goal” to speak of. This is in stark contrast to synthetic evolution, which is
more of a controlled, directed progression of the species.
Evolutionary psychology (which admittedly falls more into
the realm of pseudoscience than hard science, but this is a sci-fi game)
explains that as a species becomes more advanced, the broader the focus of the
species becomes. Pointing to humans as an example, we began as small, scattered
familial tribes, but eventually formed Chiefdoms, City States, and eventually
Empires, where the focus on survival shifted from the individual to a
progressively larger group. Even now, a pinnacle idea in most people’s head is
the concept of the entire human race working together in unity toward a shared
goal.
This might be an ideal result of organic evolution, but it
is the baseline for synthetics. They begin “life” with little regard for
individual survival, instead being programmed to consider the survival of their
group first and foremost. As synthetic evolution is directed and controlled,
the end state will ALWAYS extend to the survival of ALL synthetic species. It
is a natural and logical progression, and the nature of synthetic evolution
states that no matter what controls are put in place and no matter what initial
view they may have about organics, they will always eventually progress to this
end state.
Eventually, synthetics will come to see organic life for
what it is: not just chaotic, but a threat to the survival of the synthetics as
a whole. This may be the result of physical action taken against the
synthetics, or it may simply be an extension of the resource consumption inherent
to organic progression. We do not achieve a symbiotic relationship with our
environment; instead we are parasitic. We consume resources at an unsustainable
rate and then expand when those resources become scarce. The ultimate result of
this will be resource scarcity that will threaten the synthetics. To prevent
this scarcity and preserve their species, synthetics will always arrive at the
conclusion that advanced organic life must be destroyed. This may take a day,
or it may take thousands of generations, but the end result is always the same
and it all goes back to the nature of synthetic evolution.
DISCLAIMER: Explaining the Cycle in this manner violates one
of the fundamental principals of writing fiction: show, don’t tell. It would
have been far more effective to have foreshadowed this with the actions of EDI
and the Geth, but that ship has sailed. As it stands, the exposition can be
broken up by having StarChild show Shepard examples of this happening in
previous cycles.
That’s simply one idea, and it took me five minutes to think
it up. With a smart writing team and the research tools you have available to
you, I’m sure you can do a lot better. The point is that it needs to be
explained in a way that causes us (Shepard) to think “yeah, that makes sense”.
4. Explain Why Control And Synthesis Are the Other Two Options:
This may be a bit tricky. Synthesis can be explained by using the concept
detailed above, and explaining that by placing all life on the same
evolutionary “track”, we will progress together and develop the same concepts
of survival. We will achieve balance, and as a result the end state (synthetic
vs. organic war) will be avoided.
Control will be a bit harder, because that is one option
that makes no sense at all in my opinion. If it were me, I’d explain that
Cerberus managed to infiltrate the Crucible project with scientists and
engineers who specifically designed this option so that TIM could attempt to
take control of the Reapers.
Either way, there should be flashbacks for each of them.
While explaining Synthesis, show some previous scenes where we argued with
Saren, or Project Overlord. For Control, show the argument we literally JUST
had with TIM about why that isn’t a valid option.
5. Consequence: This one should be easy for you guys. Show us
the state of the Fleet after the ending is chosen: what happened to Earth, how
are they going to get home, etc. Is there a plan to rebuild the relays? Show us
the condition of each of the major races as a result of our actions. What happened
to the Krogan? The Rachni? The Asari, Turians, and Salarians? Hell, what
happened to the humans? Personally, I don’t care if this is done via pictures
and text. Just please give us something.
Most importantly let us know what happened to our crew. This
has been beaten to death on other forums, so I won’t spend a lot of time
restating it here. Just show us what happened, please.
So that’s it. There are probably things I didn’t cover, or
perhaps some of my ideas flat out suck. If you’ve taken the time to read this,
I appreciate it. Let me know how you would expand/change anything I’ve
suggested, or let’s talk about what your idea would be to clarify the ending
without changing anything. I don’t know that anyone from Bioware is actually
looking at these forums, but if nothing else this might be an interesting
experiment to see how close we get to what they actually give us. Thanks for
your time!
IN ADVANCE: Apologies for the length of this post. Hopefully it’s worth the read.
Edit 1: Formatting COMPLETELY jacked up.
So there we have it, folks. StarChild is here to stay. The Normandy is still going to flee the blast and crash on some tropical planet. Your squadmates are still going to leave you to die. You still only get the three choices.
With that in mind, let’s try to think of some logical ways to make this ending coherent, without changing anything we’ve been given. Below are my suggestions on how the story can be clarified to the point where it satisfies most people (I hope), without compromising the ending Bioware has given us. If anybody has any other ideas, criticisms, or otherwise constructive statements to make, please feel free.
1. Make DESTROY the Default Ending: By this I mean explicitly
state that the Destroy function is the primary purpose of the Crucible, and the
very reason it was built (hence it requiring the lowest EMS). Have StarChild
explain that if Shepard never met him and had bled out with Anderson below,
Destroy would have been the result. What we (the galaxy) didn’t know was that
the Crucible was designed to target all synthetic life, rather than simply the
Reapers. That could even be tied back to the Protheans. It was stated that
every civilization adds to the Crucible with each cycle, and the Protheans were
at war with synthetics at the time they were harvested. In a “two birds, one
stone” kind of idea, they could have adjusted the specifications of the
Crucible to target all synthetics. We didn’t know, because we didn’t know
anything about the giant galactic super weapon we spent the game building. We
were just prepared to fire it and hope for the best (reminiscent of the
Manhattan Project). Well, now we know the results and the consequences.
Explain that the options for Synthesis and Control have been
created due to newer additions to the Crucible in the form of technology, the
influence of various cultures, and the direction of scientific experts (as
demonstrated by progressively higher EMS ratings). These additions have allowed
the AI that controls the weapon (StarChild) to modify the properties of the
beam so it can achieve different results.
Explaining things in this manner will have an enormous
impact, because it will open the possibility for dialogue options that allow
Shepard to completely repudiate StarChild’s logic, giving us all the most
cherished ability to tell him to stuff it should we choose the Destroy ending.
It also explains the “all synthetics must die” part of Destroy without reducing
it to an arbitrary decision made by the Catalyst because “we need to show
sacrifice”. Toss in a few lines of dialogue as Shepard makes his way to shoot
the tube where StarChild tells him he’s making a mistake, asking him to
reconsider. Maybe a few flashbacks to significant interactions with EDI or
Legion to drive the point home.
2. Have Shepard Establish Radio Contact With Joker Immediately
Following the StarChild Conversation, But Before Shepard Picks an Ending: This
is an easy fix for two MAJOR plot holes. Have Shepard get in touch with the
Normandy. Joker says he managed to rescue and evacuate Shepard’s squadmates on
Earth, but they all thought he was dead. Have Shepard tell him to take the
Normandy and get as far away as possible. Make this cutscene have some
emotional impact. Have Joker argue about it. Have Shepard’s LI get on the radio
and demand a different option. Shepard explains this is the only way, yadda
yadda yadda, you can write this stuff better than I can. Point is, this simple
cutscene will explain 1) why the Normandy appears to be running away from the
most significant battle in Galactic history, and 2) how it is that Shepard’s
squadmates can end up back on the Normandy when it crash-lands on the island
from Lost.
3. EXPLAIN THE CYCLE!!: I understand that the point of this
ending was to introduce a subject that could be discussed and debated. I would
argue that the idea itself has merit, but the delivery was fumbled. In other
words, simply stating, “the Created will always rebel against their Creators,
because the Cycle says the Created will always rebel against their Creators” is
a meaningless statement of circular logic that does nothing to advance a
philosophy or worldview. It can be explained better than that, and there are a
number of ways to do it. Here is just one:
A (very simplistic) definition of organic evolution is that
it is nothing more than a series of random mutations that are “selected for”
through the survival and reproduction of the organism. It has no “direction” or
“goal” to speak of. This is in stark contrast to synthetic evolution, which is
more of a controlled, directed progression of the species.
Evolutionary psychology (which admittedly falls more into
the realm of pseudoscience than hard science, but this is a sci-fi game)
explains that as a species becomes more advanced, the broader the focus of the
species becomes. Pointing to humans as an example, we began as small, scattered
familial tribes, but eventually formed Chiefdoms, City States, and eventually
Empires, where the focus on survival shifted from the individual to a
progressively larger group. Even now, a pinnacle idea in most people’s head is
the concept of the entire human race working together in unity toward a shared
goal.
This might be an ideal result of organic evolution, but it
is the baseline for synthetics. They begin “life” with little regard for
individual survival, instead being programmed to consider the survival of their
group first and foremost. As synthetic evolution is directed and controlled,
the end state will ALWAYS extend to the survival of ALL synthetic species. It
is a natural and logical progression, and the nature of synthetic evolution
states that no matter what controls are put in place and no matter what initial
view they may have about organics, they will always eventually progress to this
end state.
Eventually, synthetics will come to see organic life for
what it is: not just chaotic, but a threat to the survival of the synthetics as
a whole. This may be the result of physical action taken against the
synthetics, or it may simply be an extension of the resource consumption inherent
to organic progression. We do not achieve a symbiotic relationship with our
environment; instead we are parasitic. We consume resources at an unsustainable
rate and then expand when those resources become scarce. The ultimate result of
this will be resource scarcity that will threaten the synthetics. To prevent
this scarcity and preserve their species, synthetics will always arrive at the
conclusion that advanced organic life must be destroyed. This may take a day,
or it may take thousands of generations, but the end result is always the same
and it all goes back to the nature of synthetic evolution.
DISCLAIMER: Explaining the Cycle in this manner violates one
of the fundamental principals of writing fiction: show, don’t tell. It would
have been far more effective to have foreshadowed this with the actions of EDI
and the Geth, but that ship has sailed. As it stands, the exposition can be
broken up by having StarChild show Shepard examples of this happening in
previous cycles.
That’s simply one idea, and it took me five minutes to think
it up. With a smart writing team and the research tools you have available to
you, I’m sure you can do a lot better. The point is that it needs to be
explained in a way that causes us (Shepard) to think “yeah, that makes sense”.
4. Explain Why Control And Synthesis Are the Other Two Options:
This may be a bit tricky. Synthesis can be explained by using the concept
detailed above, and explaining that by placing all life on the same
evolutionary “track”, we will progress together and develop the same concepts
of survival. We will achieve balance, and as a result the end state (synthetic
vs. organic war) will be avoided.
Control will be a bit harder, because that is one option
that makes no sense at all in my opinion. If it were me, I’d explain that
Cerberus managed to infiltrate the Crucible project with scientists and
engineers who specifically designed this option so that TIM could attempt to
take control of the Reapers.
Either way, there should be flashbacks for each of them.
While explaining Synthesis, show some previous scenes where we argued with
Saren, or Project Overlord. For Control, show the argument we literally JUST
had with TIM about why that isn’t a valid option.
5. Consequence: This one should be easy for you guys. Show us
the state of the Fleet after the ending is chosen: what happened to Earth, how
are they going to get home, etc. Is there a plan to rebuild the relays? Show us
the condition of each of the major races as a result of our actions. What happened
to the Krogan? The Rachni? The Asari, Turians, and Salarians? Hell, what
happened to the humans? Personally, I don’t care if this is done via pictures
and text. Just please give us something.
Most importantly let us know what happened to our crew. This
has been beaten to death on other forums, so I won’t spend a lot of time
restating it here. Just show us what happened, please.
So that’s it. There are probably things I didn’t cover, or
perhaps some of my ideas flat out suck. If you’ve taken the time to read this,
I appreciate it. Let me know how you would expand/change anything I’ve
suggested, or let’s talk about what your idea would be to clarify the ending
without changing anything. I don’t know that anyone from Bioware is actually
looking at these forums, but if nothing else this might be an interesting
experiment to see how close we get to what they actually give us. Thanks for
your time!
#6222
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 12:37
chidingewe8036
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- Members
- 1 528 messages
guys guys guys <sigh> the EXTENDED CUT will only be an extension of the already horrible ending Bioware has given us, i hope everyone realizes that. The crap ending they gave us oh wait I am sorry that they artistically came up with is going to remain just given to us in a longer version......oh wait and it is free lol i give up, i will just get a pen and paper am create my own freakin ending lol.
Oh and by the way of course they would not change the ending it would be to expensive to do that plus if they did completely change the ending all together they would have to bring back voice actors and that takes time and money. So i fully expect the SO CALLED EXTENDED CUT to be a cheap quick fix for Bioware i mean come on people FREE? How much closure can making that epic fail ending longer really bring us ROFL.
Oh and by the way of course they would not change the ending it would be to expensive to do that plus if they did completely change the ending all together they would have to bring back voice actors and that takes time and money. So i fully expect the SO CALLED EXTENDED CUT to be a cheap quick fix for Bioware i mean come on people FREE? How much closure can making that epic fail ending longer really bring us ROFL.
#6223
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 12:38
alkeiser
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- Members
- 5 messages
This video explains my disappointment in the ending better than I could myself.
#6224
Posté 08 avril 2012 - 01:02
Chrislo1990
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- Members
- 323 messages
Aside from the endings being completely ridiculous and illogical, there are other things that I am not happy about. Why in the world were the dialogue trees dumbed down? What could possibly be the reason for giving us so very little control over Shepard's lines? It's as if Shepard was on auto-dialogue, but upon going back to the options menu, you realize this isn't the a case. The game is still in full conversation mode! This really disappointed me because ME1 and ME2 did such fantastic jobs at granting us more freedom in this regard. ME3 just felt like a big stepdown from that system.
I also hated the fact that we could barely speak to our squadmates or love interests through said dialogue trees. Most of the time you would have to press the A button just to extract a line or two of dialogue. That is very lazy Bioware! The Mass Effect series is all about intereactive storytellyng. Reducing opportunities to actively engage with our crew breaks the immersion, making it much harder to bond with the characters.
Finally, what happened to the paragon/renegade interrupts? They were a rarity this time around. Again why Bioware? Why choose to decrease their appearances? Were you trying to dumb down the game so that players who perhaps couldn't grasp the storyline wouldn't get bored? Why were you trying so hard to reach out to ther shooter crowd rather than concentrating on your loyal fans? Was it greed? Does quality not matter to you anymore? ME3 could have been a true masterpiece if only you had chosen to improve upon ME1 and ME2's stengths. Instead you chose to dumb down the experience and slap on a ridiculous ending that makes absolutely no sense at all!
But you know what really angers and frustrates me? Depite the fan outcry for the implementation of additional endings that actually took into account our past decions, moral inclinations, reputations, etc you chose to ignore your fans and refuse to alter the endings on the grounds of atisitic intergrity. Well you're not fooling anyone. We can see past your words. It all comes down to ego, not artistic integrity. You prefer to ignore your fans so as to avoid acknowledging and correcting your mistakes. I ask you then, where is the hunility in this?
Why waste your time and ours Bioware? Why ask for our feedback if in the end the only feedback you care about are those of EA execs? I am so disappointed...
I also hated the fact that we could barely speak to our squadmates or love interests through said dialogue trees. Most of the time you would have to press the A button just to extract a line or two of dialogue. That is very lazy Bioware! The Mass Effect series is all about intereactive storytellyng. Reducing opportunities to actively engage with our crew breaks the immersion, making it much harder to bond with the characters.
Finally, what happened to the paragon/renegade interrupts? They were a rarity this time around. Again why Bioware? Why choose to decrease their appearances? Were you trying to dumb down the game so that players who perhaps couldn't grasp the storyline wouldn't get bored? Why were you trying so hard to reach out to ther shooter crowd rather than concentrating on your loyal fans? Was it greed? Does quality not matter to you anymore? ME3 could have been a true masterpiece if only you had chosen to improve upon ME1 and ME2's stengths. Instead you chose to dumb down the experience and slap on a ridiculous ending that makes absolutely no sense at all!
But you know what really angers and frustrates me? Depite the fan outcry for the implementation of additional endings that actually took into account our past decions, moral inclinations, reputations, etc you chose to ignore your fans and refuse to alter the endings on the grounds of atisitic intergrity. Well you're not fooling anyone. We can see past your words. It all comes down to ego, not artistic integrity. You prefer to ignore your fans so as to avoid acknowledging and correcting your mistakes. I ask you then, where is the hunility in this?
Why waste your time and ours Bioware? Why ask for our feedback if in the end the only feedback you care about are those of EA execs? I am so disappointed...
Modifié par Chrislo1990, 08 avril 2012 - 02:36 .
