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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#601
SilencedScream

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What I'd like to see:

Well-written, well-thought out, free ending DLCs that provide a sense of closure for the characters that we've become attached to over the course of three games; at least one that provides a sense of replayability, so that I don't have to feel like I've failed (even when I won).

And since this is what I expected my $60 to go towards in the first place , I'd like it as more of a "patch" instead of as a "paid DLC."

This was supposed to be the end of Shepard's story.
All questions were supposed to be answered.
I don't mind a "downer" ending as a possibility; but I'd prefer an epilogue that suggested that I accomplished something as opposed to feeling like I've failed the universe, despite getting the "perfect" ending.

Modifié par SilencedScream, 17 mars 2012 - 04:53 .


#602
FilmDirector554

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Scrap the Star Child. If you can't come up with a coherent explanation for the Reapers, that's fine. Sometimes explaining your greatest mystery ruins the credibility and suspense behind it. The goal is to destroy the Reapers. Don't suddenly appear and say they're the "good guys" and that they're helping the organics by murdering them to protect them from synthetics. Remember, Sovereign said that the Reapers simply are. They are eternal. Before them, organic life is nothing. An accident, etc. Stay with that. It's good. So yeah, the question of where the Reapers come from? THAT is something you can let the audience speculate on.

Also, a final boss battle. I know it seemed too "video gamey" at the time, but this is a video game. Games like BioShock managed to deliver on all its themes, characters, etc, and they still had the classic end boss fight. And you know what? It was awesome and didn't take away from anything. You guys built up the Illusive Man for a boss fight in Mass Effect 3, and before that in Arrival with Harbinger. Your two boss fight candidates are right there.

Give us endings influenced by our choices throughout the entire Mass Effect saga. Make everything count. Don't give us A, B, and C endings. You promised multiple influenced by our choices throughout the series. Deliver on this.

London: This is truly a suicide mission. Let us assign our war assets. Let us assign our crew. It would have been great to see more going on during the push through London and the battle in space.

Let me save the day. I don't care if my Shepard dies, but let me FEEL like a hero. Let me feel like my hours of playtime, money, emotion and heartache in this personal journey to save the galaxy meant something. There's too much crap going on in our own world for bittersweet endings, but include one just to have an ending where everything falls apart. And you know what? Give us an end where Shepard DOES live. Cause why the heck not? He's Commander Shepard. He works miracles. But most of all...give us closure. I want to see what happened to my team, earth, and the rest of the galaxy.

And look, you guys showed a Mass Relay exploding and wiping out an entire system. Don't back out on your previously established logic. It's too late. But hey, if you want to have an ending where the relays go up, use it in a bad ending where you're manipulated into pushing the wrong button or something.

This is Mass Effect 3. This is the end of a trilogy. It's the end of the massive space opera Mass Effect. Not Blah Effect. Pull out all the stops and crank it to epic. Give the player the greatest climax and resolution in the history of gaming.

This isn't the second and third Matrix films. This is your The Return of the King.

Thank you.

#603
tdoug870

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Just want to say first that Mass Effect 3 is, for the most part, a fantastic game that you should be very proud of creating. However, like many other people I found the ending to be lacking. In particular, I fully agree with Jeremy Jahn's video that's been posted in a few places and the 'Refuse' poll that's the second most voted. In addition to that, here's what I, personally, would really like to see considered, ordered by decreasing importance to me.

1. I want a happier ending, with Shepard living (for real). I know Casey Hudson said the ending was always going to be bittersweet; how could ending this epic saga not be? However, I didn't find the ending to be bittersweet; for me it was downright depressing, watching Shepard be incinerated for no real reason then the writers decided that's how the game should end. I'm not saying they're not brilliant, the rest of the game is a testament to that fact, however compared to the tragic beauty of Mordin and Legion's sacrifices, Shepard is supposed to be me, and watching myself die in agony is not what I like to see in my entertainment. I would want something more in line with the endings to the first two games with triumph against all odds and a real reward for playing the game well. I'm not saying that should be *the* ending, I just want it to be *my* ending.

2. An epilogue. At the very least I'd like a 2 minute scene with Shepard and Tali on the Normany, looking at the stars and sailing off into the sunset. Nothing fancy required, the moment in the Green version with Joker and EDI would actually be perfectly acceptable if reapplied in this case (that's the one part of the endings I really did like, its effectiveness was just severely hampered by the previously mentioned incineration, death, and depression).

3. Dialog with the Star Child, in particular the Refuse option. The Star Child did sort of come out of nowhere, but as soon as Shepard passed out I had a strong suspicion there would be some God creature which would prop him up and lead us to the end. Given the three choices, my immediate reaction was to refuse, however that wasn't an option. I went with Synthesis since I figured if there was going to be space magic, maybe Shepard would get reconstituted after being incinerated. No such luck there, and it would have been a bit silly anyway, so I think Refuse is the way to go.

4. Explain events having galaxy shattering implications, namely Mass Relay destruction. Firstly, show that Earth or any other planet with a relay in the system isn't destroyed like in the Arrival. Secondly, show that the armada is not stranded on Earth without sufficient supplies. I'm not sure if we've ever seen metrics on the ship mass effect drive speeds versus the relays, but I would just want to know whether we're talking hours with the relays versus days, months, years, etc. without them. For instance, Wrex could comment that at least he'll make it back to Tuchanka before his kids are born, he could even have extra time to help rebuild before he'd have to go. While on the topic of relay destruction, scrap the Normandy going through it, that whole sequence doesn't make sense in the given context.

5. An actual final boss fight. Don't get me wrong, Marauder Shields was pretty epic, but it would be awesome to go one on one with Harbinger. First, suppose the current decisions were altered so that control/destroy didn't kill Shepard, instead they involved pressing some buttons on a control console or something. Now suppose whichever choice you pick, it takes time to charge up, but then Harbinger shows up and you have to fend off it off long enough for the Crucible to fire a giant laser in its face.

So I think that's enough of a wall of text, you get the idea. Ultimately the big problem for me is I really don't want to play this game anymore let along purchase DLC, else it would disturb the intricately constructed reassurances to myself that the ending never happened. If you do fix the endings though, not only will I buy that DLC and all other DLC as I had previously planned, I'll even pick up a second copy of the game for PC so I can enjoy better graphics than my sad PS3 can offer. I am happy to spend money supporting developers and stories that I love, and until now it has been well worth that investment.

#604
wook77

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I'm probably going to be a Debbie Downer here (ok, I'm definitely going to be a debbie downer) but... why is this thread necessary? In the "yes we're listening" thread, there were hundreds of great suggestions and comments. There are plenty of fan run threads similar to this that you can mine for details of what is wrong with the endings.

We've been having these discussions for over a week. Were they not enough?

This is really just coming from a position of feeling like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

And the pessimist in me wants to know if you're going to take these ideas and just turn around and sell them to us in an attempt to profit while including an actual ending rather than the half-ending that we got.

/debbie downer 'tude

#605
Iylara

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SamFlagg wrote...

(Posted in this thread because I totally was taking to long and ended up after the lock in the other one)

Jessica,

First apologies for what I'm sure is the wall of text
flying back and forth which is contributing to the discussion being so
unhelpful right this second.  I would say people have to adjust to
actually having someone here.  Many of the articles laid out by some of
the posters do include the generalities of what we currently think was
wrong, but I can offer some concrete suggestions that reflect my
thoughts, and hopefully reflect the thoughts of others.

While the endings our our primary concern I'd like to address Earth and then a couple quality of life issues as well.

1.) War
assets - Many of us feel rightly or wrongly that we logically expected
war assets to appear either in game or in cutscenes during the take back
of Earth.  And the war assets I'm referring to aren't the space ships
above (Though those are awesome) they are the ones on the ground.  We
really really did want to see Elcor Living Tanks and bands of Krogans
charging reapers.  We wanted to see scenes of our ME2 squad mates
holding there own somewhere on the battlefield.  We expected the battle
on Earth itself to be so much grander

2.) I think a lot of us
expected Earth to be far more similar in tone to the ME2 suicide mission
where we could task crewmates and have their survival depend on our
choices previously in the game.  With the number of times Commander
Shepard is told that he was going to lose people, it was surprising that
no one on his current squad met that fate, and the ones who typically
would (Thane and Mordin) had already been heavily foreshadowed to
finding redeption through death (For the record, Thane Mordin and
Legions deaths were so pitch perfect that we find how perfect those were
out of balance with how much of a problem we had with the ending)

3.)
The section where you sprint towards the beam of light and harbinger
attacks all the way through having Anderson die next to you is
beautiful.  It's all emotional, and most of all it's personal.

4.)
Our main issues lie with the God-Child, we find his arguement
uncompelling because we don't see his logic, and we are angry most of
all because Shepard has been a character of definance against the odds
for 2.99 games.  And in the darkest hour, he does not have the option
really to simply reject the assertion that synthetics and organics will
always be at war (And the entire Geth Quarian plot line seems to make it
far more likely that Organics will try to wipe out synthetics than the
other way around.  We find fault with his reasoning and are for the
first time in the series unable to challenge it.)

5.) The ending
consequences for Shepard come down to three shades of death (discounting
the breathing), and the mass relays destroyed in all of them.  While
there may be an underlying philisophical discussion about destroying the
reapers controlling the reapers or merging all synthetic life, this is
far overshadowed by the very immediate practical problem of destroying
all relay travel and stranding fleets in the Sol system.

6.) I
believe this could have been handled better by having some options where
Shepard lives, but relays are destroyed, or shepard dies, but the
relays go on, or even Shepard picks the control option and the reapers
leave earth and the relays alone but go and reap the rest of the
galaxy.  The practical consequences of the three options are so similar
that their philisophical difference becomes irrelevant.  (To that end I
think many would've been happy for an option to be defiant, sacrifice
yourself, have the crucible simply bring down the reaper barriers and
make them easily destroyed by the assembled fleet, and hey if you have
enough EMS you can even save shepard.)

7.) Closure.  In this it
could've been done with a heroes funeral, or if he survived a simple pan
and scan of the area with his surviving squad mates and a "Let's go
home" moment.   We feel that many of the plotlines that were apparently
solved are undone because all the people necessary to good outcomes
(Like having Wrex on Tuchanka) are stranded in the sol system.  We're
not all asking for a Star Wars Medal Ceremony, we'd be perfectly fine if
it could be a bittersweet view of all we lost, but also at what we
still had.  (And if there are enough varient endings someone can get the
star wars medal ceremony, but that's the point we wanted the endings to
be divergent)

8.) The cut scenes were 80% the same.  There really isn't a way to not be unhappy about that.

The
other quality of life issues are: The Journal, The Face Import,
Multiplayer having too much of an impact on readyness, and the Shepard
Shame Talk  (when the models actively look away from each other while
talking)

Now I will point out that this depth of feeling is
because of a real sense of attachment to all of the characters in the
universe.  The deaths for the characters who had them were all pitch
perfect, which is why the lack of sacrifice in the last part of the game
of anyone on the most dangerous battlefield followed by destroying the
entire relay system is so jarring.

 
Everything they said, and I want FemShep to retire with her LI on a tropical island! And I want better long hair styles for FemShep! 

Modifié par Iylara, 17 mars 2012 - 06:15 .


#606
Solsys

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 1.  Fix the War Assets system

This can be done without extensive changes, either reduce the minimum required assets for certain endings, or make the minimum readiness just high enough so that you can get above 4000 without Multiplayer or iOS apps.  It's inexcusable that you can complete every side mission, including the "From Ashes" DLC mission, make the right choices to maximize your forces and still come up 3-500 short of minimum required for the "Breath" scene. This is also critical for replay value 3-4 years down the line when everyone has moved on to newer multiplayer titles and the iOS apps are no longer patched.

2. Allow us to (successfully) challenge StarChild's assertion that Organics & Synthetics can't get along

Caveat:  Only allow this choice if we have made peace between the Quarians and Geth.  This would go a long way towards the core issue that we feel like our choices didn't mean anything.  If we didn't make peace then make that one more bit of ammo for the StarChild to use against us.  

I feel like this entire conversation could be structured less as "Thou shalt pick your poison and like it" and more like "Prove to us that you deserve to live". If we win the argument and have enough war assets, then the reapers surrender and leave, taking the Relays and the Citadel with them.   Our civilization can continue, but we have to rebuild it on our own.

This ending is still bittersweet; galactic civilization has been set back decades, possibly centuries, Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and countless other worlds lie in ruin, billions (trillions?) are dead, entire races are shattered.  Life is going to suck for a very long time, but at the end of the day there is a faint glimmer of.... hope.

Finally if the Indoctrination theory is true, then this could be the final test of Paragon Shepard.  It's still happening in her head, but the result is the same. Killing all Synthetics feels appropo for Renegade Shepard, regardless if it's a dream or not.

3. Above all SHOW THIS.  

Given how you handled Thane, Mordin, and Legion, we know you have it in you to make a heart-breaking scene, even in "victory".  Slow pans over the ruins of London, the shattered starships in orbit, hospitals filled beyond capacity, families crying over graves. What we don't need is a fourth ending where the explosion is hue-shifted to purple... (More on this below)

If Shepard dies in any of the endings that have survivors, then there should be a full state funeral, with the surviving members of your team in attendance, touching eulogies from Hackett, your LI, and others.

4. Add more variation to the other endings



Do I need to say anything else?

5. Give a clear explanation as to why Joker & Crew abandoned Shepard and left Sol entirely.

I pretty sure the Joker I know would have told Hackett to go F* himself if he was ordered to withdraw.  There must be a better reason.

6. Nuke the "Shepard is a legend, now go buy DLC!" advert at the end.

I'm sorry, but this is just... tacky.

7. This is just a nice to have...  something like a DA:O Epilogue.

Show us what became of the crew, the quarians & Geth, the Krogans, and the other lives we have touched along the way.

Thank you for reading, and thank you for making such an amazing series of games.

#607
CirusTheVirus666

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I agree with everyone else about the ending, we need some closure.

Anyone else notice when you first met the little boy 5 minutes in the game, you are the only one who sees him? Anderson seems like he doesn't hear the kid and looks at Shepard like what are you doing when you were talking to the boy in the vents. Then when you are leaving, the kid is in the middle of people running around and no one notices him? They dont even help him when he tries to climb on the ship, when there are soldiers around helping other people but they can't help a kid who is alone? Just a short blurbed there lol

But we need an ending with more choices, I was paragon all the way through ME1,2 and 3, I wanted to live and see a last scene with my LI(who was Liara btw, blue babies ftw!) I deffinately support the indoctrination theory.  The kid never existed and its all in sheps mind from the indoctrination. You could pick up right after picking to destroy the reapers(red ending) and make one final push or something and then escape with your crew(who didnt leave and came to save you) then when the normandy crashes, you can leave it, but add one extra part where it shows your LI looking at the plants/sun and then turns around and you are coming out of the ship smiling at them. That, would make me extremely happy and I could die smiling lol

I would also love more LI events since i found just walking by them and they start talking a little boring, I wanted to move the conversations along, not just be a spectator to them. That would be icing on the cake! and we all know the cake is not a lie!


Bioware, one thing, if anything, we(the fans) know you have created THE best sci/fi game no matter what happens in the future. We just believe that we and you, need a closure to the shepard story(but please make more mass effect games in the future though)

I pray that you make a new ending a strong consideration for a DLC and then everyone will be happy and THEN you can release even more DLC(we all know you will make a DLC with taking back Omega and a Collector base ;) hehe)  

Thank you BIOWARE for this amazing universe! Lets just make it a little better!

Modifié par CirusTheVirus666, 17 mars 2012 - 04:55 .


#608
junte86

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War assets should influence Final mission. For example The ground forces such as geth prime squad and krogan soldiers and RACHNI forces should appear in final mission and help Shepard if you recruited them.

Take Back Earth trailer gave us the impression that the final mission would be a large scale battle deciding the fate of the universe, but it was just like a regular mission in mass effect series.

Final mission should be larger with past squad mates doing more things and the army you recruited. War assets shouldn't be just a numbers that determine the final ending...and the space battle cut scene is not enough.

I want it to have an impact in the final mission, where you can see your army helping you and having a large scale battle where you really feel it is a war...not just a 3 man squad mission

#609
ShepGep

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Make the first 98 gameplay hours and the choices you made in ME1, ME2, and ME3 up until the final 10 minutes of the game matter? I mean, that's a start? Oh, also change your advertising slogan from "Take Back Earth" to "Almost Take Back Earth but The Game Ends Before You Do So You Have No Idea If You Actually Take Back Earth, Live, Die, What Happens To Your Crew, What Happens To The Galaxy, or What Even Happens To The Reapers!"

#610
OneWithTheAssassins

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I want the Indoctrination theory to be true!!
Shepard chooses destroy and wakes up near the conduit after Harbenger's lazer, breaking it's indoctrination atempt. Goes into the cidedle, fights TIM, blows up the reapers and then lives hapily ever after with Tali.

#611
Garland7A

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First of all I must applaud BW for going this route, it really backs up what Casey said about the fans helping write it.

as for the ending, the indoctrination theory seems to be the most plausable, as you can use it to explain away the current endings plotholes.

 alot of people say they are fine with shep dieing in the end, but i don't believe that, so try to have at least 1 happy ending possible maybe 10k ems where he ends up with a LI, this wouldn't be canon but the choice should be availaible.

war assests should be used to determine the final fight against the reapers not the crucible.
have the final player battle be against harbinger, (he needs payback!)

it doesnt even need to be long, just after the final fight with harbinger have shep's li run up and give him a hug, cut to credits.

do a dlc all about finding/defeating the illusive man. it would culminate at the citadel where he tries to assume direct control of the remaining reaper forces, at this point the only way to stop him is to blow up the crucible and the entire citadel. save this for your last dlc so you can blow up shep for good.

thanks for listening

#612
I_Jedi

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I'd like Sir Toombs

Image IPB

and Sir Kyle

Image IPB

Lady Parasini

Image IPB

and Supreme Commander Charn

Image IPB

In my ME3.

#613
kleindropper

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Make our decisions mattter; bottom line. Yes you can have Shepard die, yes you can destroy the galaxy, but that should be one possible outcome, not every outcome. Personally I always thought the main decision at the end would come down to Shepard vs. Earth vs. several squadmates or something to that effect. The endings as they are now, I have to assume every civilization and every squadmate is either lost, destroyed or crippled (along with a smoking Shepard corpse) - What a great victory!

#614
Neroteyen

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1st DLC must be ending fix! Many will not buy any until that one is made.
Now then, I enjoyed the way you let us get some resolution with the previous characters. While some were not fully fleshed out as I would like i think they worked. Thane's especially was very poignant while jacobs seemed kinda dumb honestly. I mean femshep and him dont stay together? huh? Oh well, its cool. I loved the interplay between characters, like joker and garrus and tali/garrus if you didn't romance either. The subromance between joker and edi was great in my opinion. and your cutsceens were awesome! We cared for our friends and loved interacting with them. The resolution of several of the long standing issues quarian/geth, genophage etc  great! Except for the rachni. I mean really? the queen gets taken over again? Sigh That ones not so great But it is liveable with so I give ya a pass on it. and the fleet scenes attacking the reapers as we come back to earth Amazing.
NOW the bad and what need to be FIXED

1. MULTIPLAYER NOT NEEDED FOR BEST ENDING. I dont play multiplayed and DO NOT want to have to to get the best ending. Reduce the war rating needed for a best OR increase starting readiness from 50 to 75% This was promised and was NOT delivered (at least for me, however several quests did bug out and unable to complete most notibely the hanar diplomat one you supposed to get kasumi )

2.Pretty much a total rewrite of the ending. use the indocrnation theory if needed. See below for my take.

3. Epilogue Stargazer can be kept at the very end but ya gotta lets us know what happens to the universe. Pull a DA:O text on screne going over key issues: A. Shepard and Love interest B. Humanity and earth C. Remainder of your crew D. Geth/quarians E. Asari, Salarians, Turians, Batarians, Krogans rachni if they lived in 1 and 3 Etc. Doesnt have to be super detailed just some text on the screne Again like in DA:O

4.. HAPPY ENDING. If I wanted a life sux then you die ending I wouldn't play Video games. There should be at least 1 ending where shepard lives. gets to stay with his/her Love interest and heck maybe become human councillar. I would also recomend 1 ending where reapers win too. Give Harby some Love :devil:

Example-This is what i imagine:.
Child talks same speech as now. Speech wheel pops up and you say what choice you want.
CURRENT endings
1. Destroy: You die she dies everyone dies. You destroy reapers but also relays. You kill everthing relays supernova Boom gratz for next Cycle
2. Synthesis: Ending showuing reapers winning Shepard indoctinated doing speeches on the net saying to turn yourself in. Resistance is futile etc etc etc
3. Control: Shepard vaporizes. Reapers halt. Harbingers eyes and circuitry fade from red to blue then shepards voice Assuming control. Reapers turn from red to blue and then epilogue. Show reapers making humans the bullys in the universe. 1st earth empire, with the reapers destroying any race that disagrees
NEW endings
4. Delay: Argue with the child. convince it that what it has been doing is wrong. Use the example of the geth and quarion if they are together if they are not tehn use the uniting of the races or joker/edi. Try to convince the child that synthetic and organics can live together. Child will decide that reapers COULD be wrong. Reapers will halt attack and agree to return to dark space for 25000 years. Then they will return and see if you were right.
5. Refute: (Renegade type) Argue with the child. Refuse to decide. Watch as the fleets fight it out.
A-eventually if your assets are high enough Admiral hacket gets a lucky blow on harbinger and it explodes Pieces of harby hit the citadel smashing into the crucible and actvating it emp pulseing the reapers and stunning them long enough to be defeated.
B-If war assets not enough Reapers win. Shepards last sight is harby bearing down shooting his laser at us.
6. Convince:(Paragon type) This one similar to delay but you must have gotten geth and quarians together, And gotten edi/joker and High assets and readiness. Argue and convince the star child that everyone can work together. There will be bumps but the reapers are wrong. Eventually after much arguing convince him that your'e right. Reapers stop attack and agree to help rebuild all thats been destroyed. This would be (BEST ENDING)

Ok sorry for long post and any misspells but want to get across my point. So anyways gice us some closure and the OPTION to walk off into the sunset with out love's<3 and friends and we'll be happy fans ;)
BUT Don't brush us off either. This is a start, But Honestly BW's reputation has taken a HUGE blow and if this is some delaying PR move? WE WILL HOLD THE LINE.

Modifié par Neroteyen, 17 mars 2012 - 04:59 .


#615
Siona

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(I'm about as eloquent as a hanar on crack, but here's my reply)
I want to start this comment off with saying that I'm in love with the series, and have been for 3 years. It's helped me deal with family issues, losing a job, starting school, and more. I've met amazing friends from across the globe because of it. And as a queer gamer, I can't even begin to say what Bioware as a whole has meant to me in terms of a safe space and acceptance. For that, thank you. Basically, when I praise it, I'm ready to do it from the mountain tops. But it also means that when I criticize it, it's from a place of love. That's why I'm here.
I loved about 95% of the game, like most posters here. The deaths, the choices, the cinematics, everything was damn near flawless. But the ending ripped the rug out from under me, for multiple reasons. Lack of coherency with the lore, with the theme that had been given to us not just for this game but all three, lack of choice, and most of all, lack of hope. So here's my argument, in short:
-- The ending DEFINITELY needs expanding. As it is, it's so riddled with plot holes and grimdark that it renders any other playthroughs useless. Why bother going through all the choices, all the relationships, be they good or bad, to just get the same endings wrapped up in three colors? Not to mention the horrible reality of all the aliens now trapped on Earth because the relays were broken (and unlikely to be fixed because they were never fully understood in the first place), and your crew trapped on some bizarro planet after Joker went into OOC land to run away from the fight. I'm all for dramatic conclusions, but this one is just bizarre to the point of being nonfunctional.
-- The ending should give you some choice to prove the Catalyst wrong. "Oh, all AI will go against their creators!" Bull. I just spent 40-ish hours getting the geth and EDI on my side. You can't claim that synthetics are the Big Baddies and then spend the majority of the series with them as sympathetic roles. Shepard KNOWS that the Catalyst is wrong, why can't she/he say so?
-- More conclusion as to the fate of other characters. Even if Shepard dies, I want to know what happens to Wrex, to EDI, to Javik, to Garrus, to Liara, to the core cast that I've known from each game. A combo of the ME openings DA:O ending, I think, would've ended well; text epilogue for the differing races and main characters, explaining how your actions and attitudes affected them in the aftermath. ME3 cut off too short and too fast; there's a difference between speculation and outright lack of conclusion.
-- And frankly, I'll say it. I would like the OPTION for a happier ending, to see Shepard not only live but SUCCEED. I want to see Shepard come out a hero, not die broken and tired and alone, and if you choose the one option for them to live, they apparently get to live on Earth, separated from their friends and romance interest for who knows how long. Maybe that makes me a bit of a pollyanna, I don't know. But I feel that the ending really robbed a lot of us of what the series had come to state for a long time: that there was hope and a reason to fight, because it'll be better in the end.
-- Not going to lie, I'd love to see Bioware embrace the Indoctrination Theory and go from there! Have Shepard wake up, realize what's happening, and fight like hell to actually finish the fight in a meaningful way, and not wander off into 2001 A Space Odyssey. I know this'll take extra work and time but, quite frankly, if Bioware wants to keep the current ending intact but expand upon it, this would be a good place to start.
Also, unrelated to the endings but still a minor gripe from me. Maaaaaan, the Thane romance got shafted. Two scenes, no dialogue, and no one acknowledged that he'd died except for the memorial wall? :| Harsh. But that's another gripe for another day.

Modifié par Siona, 17 mars 2012 - 07:23 .


#616
Oddlyotter

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Hehe nice PR move Bioware. Everyone is writing out long posts thinking everything they say is important. And you kids thought they didn't know what they were doing.

#617
RagingCeltik

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Personally, I don't think you should allow any of us to dictate actual plot changes to the game. Doing that will just remove some of the surprise (there's a better word for it that I can't think of right now) if we start seeing fan-crafted plots added to the game. The endings should strictly come from the minds of the Mass Effect writers and staff.

That said, don't look to us to re-write the endings, just simply address the major grievances which are well-put in this article. I think once you do that fans, even if they don't like all of the new endings, will still be much more at peace with the closing of Shepard's story.

I think it goes without saying any changes will probably be packaged as a patch, not so much DLC.

Modifié par RagingCeltik, 17 mars 2012 - 04:59 .


#618
warrior256

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Alright, I won't give you a massive block of text to read since I still want for Bioware to do some of the thinking on the ending for us. It is still partially their project, just as it is partially ours.

Ok, I would like for their to be more variety in the endings. I do not mind the bittersweet approach that you took with the current endings. Hell, I actually think it was a good idea. The problem is twofold. First, the bittersweet ending must be explained better (all of the plotholes that have been noted so far should be addressed). Second, there should be more closure then what we were given. Do the Turian and Quarian fleets starve in the Sol system? Is there a war among the various races for Earth? What happens to my Squadmates and more importantly my LI?

Besides this, I feel that there should be a "Good ending" (EG, everyone survives, Mass Relays not destroyed. Scene in the future with Shepherd and his LI). There should also be a "Bad Ending (Reapers win, everyone dies, cycle repeats.).

One minor thing that should be addressed is the infamous Tali picture. I have no problem with you using an image off the internet. Next time just don't make it as obvious! :)

#619
Alix71

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pomrink wrote...

Indoctrination theory being correct, then showing us what happens afterwards, with the extra bonus that we will never find out the reapers motivations.

Edit: Golden ending with shep living would hopefully be with LI....


First comment mostly what I want, with a couple of clarifications/additions:
  • If our 'choices matter', I want to see the consequences of the Control/Synthesis/Destroy the Reapers decision both immediately to our squadmates and to the races we left behind in some sort of epilogue matter (the endings to DA:O or DA2 both come to mind, although more would not be rejected)
  • Either a complete retcon of whatever the heck was going on with the Normandy there at the end, after the decision, or a better explanation for how it came about. As it is, it makes no sense as to why Joker would be fleeing the battle, how/why Shepard's LI would be abandoning him/her without knowing his/her fate, how potential members of the Hammer ground team got from there to the Normandy to flee.
  • The relevance and expansion of explanation on the extra 5-10 seconds provided in the 'optimal' Destroy ending of Shepard's gasping breath in the rubble. Is it on the Citadel? On Earth?  Why is this the 'optimal' ending? What was the point?
Lastly, I'm less willing to pay full DLC money for such corrections unless the extra content provided with it would make it the gameplay equivalent of time or investment to play of another DLC, like "From Ashes". If it's just a few minutes, it should be priced accordingly.

(EDIT): For what it's worth, I loved the first 95% of the game to pieces. I think you guys did a fantastic job on that. It was only the last 20 minutes of it that I thought was terrible, poor storytelling, and when analyzed in a narrative sense, ended on a cliffhanger with no resolution, no conclusion, and no player satisfaction.

The genre of this game implies an expectation of triumphing in the end, even if it's at a terrible cost, and the Normandy crash landing on the Land of the Lost planet did not successfully convey that because it there were so many questions and narrative conflicts raised by it as to make it nonsensical.
Personally, I'm not looking for a 'happy ending'. I just want one that makes sense for all the characters I've grown to love through these three games and reflects the choices I made.

Modifié par Alix71, 17 mars 2012 - 05:10 .


#620
WULONGmerc

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MStango wrote...


What I Loved
Most of the Story
The Characters
The Combat

What I liked
Sound Design
Voice Acting
Graphics
Multiplayer

What I didn’t like
No Puzzles
Side Quests were all Fetch Quests
No Loyally Quests
No Planet Exploration
Lack of Varity in Weapon Mods
Lack of Varity in Armor
Very Few Boss Battles
No Vehicles
No Tank, no Hovercraft and no space combat. Some how I thought Starship combat would be part of this game, especially consider the Giant Space Cuttlefish so tantalizingly set up over the course of the series.
People wearing cloths in the shower
…why? Just why?
What I hated
The Crucible
It seemed like an aggressively intrusive plot contrivance that made the Reaper threat seem like far less of a problem.  Instead of needing many things (better ships, weapons, strategies, ext) and a plot that could have been centered around building all that up in a reasonable and understandable way.  So that in the end the heros could fight back and possibly win.  instead the game centers around a big Mcgoven.
The Catalysis
I’ve Heard the Term Deus Ex Machina and seen it employed, but I can’t say I ever literally(in a game) met the god in a machine.
No Possibility for Candy Cain Lane
If you’re going to include a plot device to fix the galaxy’s squid problem then why do so many of the press releases talk about a bittersweet ending; you realizes it‘s not really possible to marry the two.  It’s kind of hard to mentally square tough real world consequences with a miraculous problem solving lever that comes out of nowhere. It kills any sense of tragedy.  It just makes me wonder: What was the point of the previous games if in this one a magic sword was going to fall from the sky and do our work for us.
One top of that the sow sacrificial archetype is so tired, especially when it’s clearly unnecessary, why do the Reapers only obey a disintegrated person and why is said disintegration necessary to turn every one into a cyborg? It doesn’t even make sense for those Shepherds who actually did every quest and did it in Paragon fashion, with all that surplus military power why is the Crucible even necessary? I don’t think a “possible” happy ending is to unreasonable.

Lack of an Epilog
The game just kind of ends, no real closure, no explanation as to why the Normandy wasn't at earth fighting with the rest of the Fleet.



Though a bit broken for some to understand, I feel you have put it adequately, even touching on subject points I hadn't thought about. Nice work.  :)

#621
baronkohinar

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My experience for what it's worth:

I've been a huge sci-fi fan all my life but I was really attracted to the Mass Effect series based in part on the BioWare pedigree (NWN, DA:O, etc) but mainly because the player was asked to make choices that actually mattered - changes that effected the game's world. Even better, this changes would be continued from game to game! It was extraordinary.

When the time came for Mass Effect 3, I was pumped. In fact, playing through the game, it was amazing the way all your choices came together. I loved the resolution to the Genophage as well as the Geth/Quarian situation. The deaths of Mordin, and Thane were exceptional, emotional moments. I even teared up for a moment when it turned out Grunt had survived, and he wasn't even one of my favorite characters! The resolution for Conrad Vernor was a similarly seminal moment, spanning the entire series. Combat was also vastly improved, finally giving us the ability to roll, an improved cover system, and we could finally turn while running. These were some great changes. If the game itself was this good, imagine how good the ending would be! Throughout it all, however, the seed had been planted and I was never expecting a happy ending. But I was okay with that since I new this was the intended end of Shepard’s story. Shepard said goodbye to everyone in epic fashion and we were off to the final conflict.

The ending we got, however, I was not prepared for in the least. For the most part, everything was great until we got hit by the Reaper's beam. The charge was a truly cinematic moment. Everyone running and dodging huge laser blasts. Upon arriving in the Citadel, however, it felt like something was wrong; my squad, my constant companions were missing. Yet, I expected to find them above and that we'd face the final challenge together. That didn't come to pass, however, but that wasn't the end of the world. It looked like it would be down to Anderson and I, which was fitting in a way, for that was how the series started.

The conversation with the Illusive Man was similarly fine, but nothing great. I was a little dismayed to find I was barred from picking the final Paragon option, as I’d followed the Paragon path 90% + of the game, but I would later read there was a less obvious choice I’d missed in one of the early conversations with him. But it echoed the situation with Saren in ME1. The confrontation was fine, though, and I didn’t miss having a boss fight with him at all. The final scene with Anderson was touching (although, hearing what was cut from the original conversation, discussing Shepard as a parent, were more emotional still and I’d love if there was some way to reincorporate this into the game, even if it’s only beyond a certain EMS threshold). In retrospect, I would have been happy if things had ended here. Shepard and Anderson watching the defeat of the Reapers through the windows would have been vastly satisfying, followed by Anderson’s eventual death and possibly a prologue (even if a vague one); Shepard would have gone out on a high note and I would have been able to forgive and lose ends.

Anyway, though, as with most people, my problem came in with the StarChild. Though not annoying in and of itself, the first disconnect came with his statement that he was in charge of the Reapers. This seemed to contradict what we’d been told of the Reapers previously, as back then it seemed like they were their own individuals (or at least a collective consciousness in each body). As time went on, it became clear there would be no payoff on the dark energy plot line from the second game either. Both of these things were somewhat disappointing but I would have been able to overlook them if not for what happened next: I was given the same three choices as everyone else regardless of anything that I’d done before and I had no option but to pick one. In a game that’s always advocated free will, Shepard unquestioningly went along with what the Catalyst was saying. The Catalyst said that all that had happened was due to the fact that synthetics and organics were always destined to destroy each other. However, at least in my game, I had just united the Geth and Quarians, putting an end to a similar war that had been going on for decades. The Shepard I’ve come to know in the rest of the series would never have accepted the Catalyst’s words at face value, even if this didn’t change anything, (s)he most certainly would have pointed this out. Plus, in an ideal world, if my choices really mattered, I personally would have like to see the Catalyst swayed by this logic, to a different outcome.

Either way, one of the choices had to be made, though the first problem was it wasn’t clear which direction represented which choice. Honestly, the first time I played through the ending, I didn’t even realize there were other choices to the side, I kept looking for them on the way to the light, assuming I might be presented with a choice via dialogue. But I still got what I felt was the best choice, the one that would save the most people, and went with Synthesis. Destruction was unacceptable since I’d just spent two games advocating that the Geth be given a second chance – there was no way I was going to destroy them now. Plus, destroying the mass relays would kill everyone in the galaxy – something that was reiterated several times in Mass Effect 3, based on the events of The Arrival. Similarly, there was no way I would choose Control either, having argued against that very thing for the whole third game.

So I chose the best choice I could, given the circumstances, and the worst thing I could imagine happening in a Mass Effect game happened: the mass relays exploded. All of them. The explosions were so big we could see them from a zoomed-out map of the galaxy. This meant that everything I’d done, everyone I’d saved, had just been destroyed. And if this somehow wasn’t the case, despite this contradicting the mass relay destruction physics reiterated in this very game, everyone was stranded, likely for hundreds of years and would likely die anyway. Surely they would have in the Destroy ending with the destruction of all technology (the only ending where Shepard could be saved, somehow, despite having all sorts of life-sustaining implants).

Further, the ending video was very confusing; why was the Normandy suddenly flying through hyperspace? Why had Joker abandoned the fight? That ran contrary to everything we’d seen about his character. And then, when the Normandy fainlly crash lands, we see characters who were with us in the final charge. Side-stepping the issue of why Joker was running, why were our companions running with him, much less running in the first place? They’d sworn to hold the line until the end. Then the biggest insult, I reloaded and tried a different ending to see what I got and the ending was 95% the same, albeit pallet-swapped. This struck me as not only unrepresentative of our choices but as a lazy way to put an ending together. I will admit to liking the Buzz Aldrin scene with his granddaughter in the future, however, but I still left having more questions than I should have, especially when Casey Hudson promised the fans a definitive ending.

I don’t need a happy ending, nor do I need one where Shepard survives. I just want an ending that pays off on the choices I made. Sure, one could argue that the entire game is the ending, and indeed much of it is a satisfactory end to the events of the first two games. However, what of the end of Mass Effect 3? Where’s the closure for that? For example, the game pays off the story of all the squad members from Mass Effect 2 phenomenally well, but I don’t feel there was any closure for my squad members in Mass Effect 3.

I’m fine with making tough choices. Honestly, they’re one of the best things about Mass Effect. However, what make those choices mean anything is seeing the consequences of our actions. Even if everyone didn’t die, did I make the right choice about the Krogan? The Rachnai? Did the Quarians and Geth make it? Moreover, what of Shepard’s final choice – you know, the one which forever changed the galaxy? At least we got some idea of what resulted from the other choices, yet we’re told nothing of the outcome from the biggest choice we made. If I gave you $1,000 but then told you that money no longer meant anything, it wouldn’t have any value for you anymore. This, at least for me, is what happened at the end of Mass Effect 3, and why I’d like to see it expanded upon.

Sorry for the length, but I wanted to provide a comprehensive picture of my experience.

Modifié par baronkohinar, 17 mars 2012 - 05:01 .


#622
shnellegaming

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I'm going to try and stay general cause Bioware should write the endings.  They should just make sense inside the game, not leave any plot holes, and give a player a sense of victory and closure of some kind.  I prefer the whole thing we experienced being an indoctrination dream and if you have 6000 EMS or REALLY full rep bar then you have a fifth option to wake up be back right before Harbringer lands.

1) I would have exposition (Shepard VO) explaining what happens with the citadel,  people who were on the Citadel when it got invaded,  relays, crew  galaxy, races, etc. If Shep lives I would show he gets reunited with  his/her LI. If he doesn't I would show Shep getting mourned. I would  also show that maybe the Citadel gets picked up by the fleets in orbit  and not crash into Earth and cause Nuclear Winter and extinction.

2) Whatever the ending it should be true to Paragon and Renegade Mass  Effect themes that have been present in the series up until this time.   Accept Reaper Tech Power/Control = Renegade and Reject Reaper  Tech/Destroy = Paragon (and I am including the Citadel and Relays as  Reaper Tech.  I have no problem with blowing them up I just want  exposition about the effects and about the characters I saved and care  about, and we should know that they don't blow up the Sol system or any other system they are in)  I thought the Synthesis was imaginative and it had both Paragon  and Renegade overtones.  It took choice away from the galaxy over their
future but it tried to create peace.  Though you could still create pure synthetics after the fact.  And mother nature isn't going to stop  creating strictly organic life.

3) I would give Shep a chance to live in some form on each ending depending on your assets and reputation but it should be HARD.  Like make it 6000 EMS and full Rep bar required.

4)  Please get rid of the plot holes.  No mystery teleports for your crew mates.

5)  Have a Final Boss fight with  Harbringer that has the same mechanics as the reaper fight on Rannoch.   This time you have all your war assests hooked to the lazer and you have to dodge not only Harbringer but tons of adds as well.  So basically  its you firing your tracking lazer and having your squad take out adds.  Your War assets determine how hard you hit Harbringer each time.  That  would be such an Epic Boss fight.  I so wanted to kick Harbringer's butt.

6)  If the catalyst stays, explain why Shepard is viewing the catalyst as a  child.  Also explain why the Catalyst itself didn't open the Citadel Mass Relay back in ME1.

Modifié par shnellegaming, 17 mars 2012 - 05:01 .


#623
Ona Demonie

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I want various endings, ones that actually matter with your choices.

-A good ending. An ending that yes, took some sacrifice, but in the end, Shepard lives, Reapers lose, Shepard and his crew and LI join back up and we learn how bad things got.
-A bad ending. Shepard fails to do anything and everything is doomed.
-A choice to walk away. Why do we have to choose? If we have enough war assets (5K+), we should have a choice to walk away from the Catalyst. Depending on your choices, you'll get a good or bad ending (EMS will also play in).
-For ****s and giggles, a joke ending. Any kind of joke ending.
-A Marauder Shields ending. That would be awesome.

For an epilogue, it would be cool if Bro-Garrus would narrate what happened after the war ends. He would lists stuff like how many people died, how bad the damage was, what happened to each species, what happened to each crew member, and finally, what happened to Shepard (and LI if Shep has one). Or if it was a bad ending, Garrus or someone else (if its the bad ending where everyone dies), they would say the Reapers continued their cycle, fulfilling their quota and leaving. Remaining survivors, hope is lost, etc. Or maybe have where how many were lost, etc.

The only thing other than the ending is the Journal. Its not very helpful. Maybe release a patch to fix it? Also, there are times where I get stuck between three NPCs or two NPCs and a wall/kiosk and I have to reload a save.

The rest of the game is fabulous! I'm currently on my 2nd playthrough and I plan to start a 3rd one! :D

Modifié par Ona Demonie, 17 mars 2012 - 04:59 .


#624
jcmccorm

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wook77 wrote...
I'm probably going to be a Debbie Downer here (ok, I'm definitely going to be a debbie downer) but... why is this thread necessary? In the "yes we're listening" thread, there were hundreds of great suggestions and comments.

Perhaps the problem is that they are listening when they should be reading??

I kid, of course. It is code for, "Okay, lay some more stuff on us. We're gathering this up. We want more."

Now that I've "won" the game (which means I've lost my will to play Mass Effect), I haven't played. I'm just amazed how someone could write an ending so bad that they turn me from totally loving a franchise to being emotionally detached and partially hating it.

Suggestion:
Understand the method used to sabatoge player interest in the franchise and do the opposite thing.

Modifié par jcmccorm, 17 mars 2012 - 05:04 .


#625
pagerunner

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I really, dearly _don't_ want the indoctrination theory to be the route this whole thing goes down. The only real reason it exists is that we weren't given enough context or consistent enough information to tell WHAT was going on, and so we got rampant theories to try to plug the holes.  While it can be perceived to explain the myriad of problems we got left with -- Shepard suddenly not questioning/investigating anything, the appearance of Harbinger with no actual payoff to it BEING Harbinger, that sort of thing -- it would hurt like hell to find out that A: the character we've, um, shepherded through three games isn't even in his/her right mind at the end or in real control when throwing the switch, and B: that, effectively, if you are indoctrinated at the end, there's really only one right answer and the rest of it is just you being fooled.

Please, PLEASE don't do this. It's depressing enough watching the fandom come down into camps like this, where instead of the ending being about choices, it's turning into who's right and who's wrong/stupid/doesn't get the reeaaaaaaal truth.

It's a story. It's not a conspiracy. Please just give us a story that's comprehensible, that fills in enough of the blanks to make sense, that doesn't make our squad inexplicably disappear from Earth and manifest on the Normandy where I'm quite, quite sure I didn't leave them, that doesn't make us wonder why Shepard seems to have completely lost her voice in the last five minutes. For me, the entire joy of the series up to this point has been playing with cause and (here we go with the unintentional puns again) effect, of making a choice and seeing the consequences, and finding out where our choice leads. That's what I didn't feel like I got with the ending the way it is, and that's what I want to see fixed.

Modifié par pagerunner, 17 mars 2012 - 05:03 .