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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#6326
a.m.p

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Dear Bioware.

Since the Extended cut announcement it became clear that all key elements of the ending:the starchild, control/destroy/synthesis, relays blowing up, are staying, along with the major problems that come with them. And that only the minor plot holes are going to be adressed.

While this is unfortunate, it is also understandable.
However I have been trying to come up with a compromise solution that could address at least some of said major problems without any change to already existing content.

Reposting parts of my original post here:

a.m.p wrote...

The simple idea of adding a fourth option that allows Shepard to refuse to pick a color has been floating on this forum since people first got to the ending.

No rewriting of the starchild dialogue. No change of the explanation of the reaper cycle, no change to already existing options. No additional gameplay.

A simple “no”. Well, maybe a renegade "no" and a paragon "no". With subsequent falling back onto your war assets.

If EMS is low – the non-canon bad ending: reapers win, everybody dies. One short cinematic.
If EMS is high enough – an option to either:
1) fight conventionally and win the battle, leading to a long and bloody war that could eventually be won, with remaining reapers retreating into dark space
2) same, but also use the fact that the citadel apparently controls the reapers to weaken them and even the odds
3) argue them away

If the rumors that the control choice will allow to eventually rebuilt the relays are true, such an ending would in the long run be similar to control: relays would be still around and the reapers will be somewhere out there.

Bioware is already doing cutscenes and cinematics for an extended epilogue for the three existing endings. Such a fourth ending would not require anything other than cutscenes and cinematics. It would not change anything except for Shepard who was supposed to be the character that we, the player, created.

Bioware keeps their vision, we keep our Shepard.

People in the thread have been coming up with detailed ideas how the three above proposed options could be implemented.

My original thread has a collection of links to said ideas and to posts and articles that explain in great detail why an option like this is needed and could greatly benefit everyone. The thread also includes a discussion about the feasibility of such an outcome.

We request you consider this compromise.

As always, thank you for the great series. Here's to hoping it can receive an ending it deserves.

Edit: fixed formatting

Modifié par a.m.p, 10 avril 2012 - 08:08 .


#6327
MoZedK

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Ok let me try this way.

For me the Ending is Broken, not becous it is bitter sweet. It is mutch bigger then that.
There is so many things done wrong IMO whit the ending.
Like:
Loosing controle of dialog
Loosing Character Focus
Loosing the genre
Changing the central conflict.
and loosing Narritive Coherence.
Loosing what Casey H sayed befour the game that there where massevily endings, and that is simply not true.

It is like its a different team writing the ending, and they really dont know the tech parts of it.

That what i think.

The above comments is based in that it is all real.

One that can explain this better then I is the link below.

First one might not be the right one.

The second on might be right Indoctrination Theory.

If the Second is right it leeds to the Third.

Well there a some other nickpick things about the game that I could complain about but I can live with those but the end is just Brooken.

Modifié par MoZedK, 10 avril 2012 - 01:29 .


#6328
SystemsAlliance

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From my standpoint, Bioware has announced that they will only give some clarifications, not fixing the gameplay and the ending, and hiding behind their so-called "artistic integrity".

The point that I am asking Bioware is : "Why you create this thread, if you, in the end didn't listen to us?" Bioware and Casey whine so much everywhere about the immaturity of the people here. Yes, that's true. But please do see that fans also has put up tons of constructive criticism, that should be explored. Most of the people posting here are honest in their intent to improve ME 3, while Bioware (though claiming listening to us) arrogantly ignore us. Please do listen to us.

Summarized in one sentence :
We don't want a clarification of the ending, we want a new ending.

#6329
Jassu1979

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I still haven't given up hope that some variation of the Indoctrination Theory has been what the creators aimed for all along, and that this could be the "clarification" that's coming.

The beauty of it is that it would turn many of the most startling and obvious weaknesses of the whole ending sequence (unlimited ammo, invisible walls, lack of choice, surreal inconsistencies) into strengths, and apparent cases of bad writings into deliberate hints that something is seriously amiss.

For me, this would turn one of the worst endings to an otherwise epic series into the most spectacular conclusion conceivable, transforming what I perceived as lackluster writing into pure genius.

#6330
B3ckett

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Go with IT, expand it a bit. Make the Starchild the last defense and not the ultimate being. Make it think it's the ultimate one, but in truth make him just another tool for something BIGGER than the Reapers.
Make this an illusion and give us a goddamn boss fight (Reapered TIM) at the end.

The golden ending should be destruction, because if you choose synthesis - every organic species gets modified by Reaper-tech. Does that sound positive to you...?:)

Make Control equal to Shepard being controlled by Reapers and thus making them more efficient thanks to his traits. Make Reapers go away THIS cycle just to come back in a 50 thousand years with more firepower, led by The Shepard.

#6331
Moorningstaar

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After giving it some thought and reading some of the points brought out in this thread I think I have a good set of suggestions for this game. I've already posted my wall of text regarding all the issues I had with it. This is going in a different direction then what I percieve IT as being as I haven't actually found an explanation for it.

1) Kill the whole crucible. As earlier pointed out this is a Deus Ex Machina ie. cheap writing. SF does not tolerate it. It's also entirely unnecessary given that Shepard finds the ****** in the reaper's defenses on Ranoch. Let Shepard soldier on through most of the game not knowing how to stop the reapers but refusing to even consider not fighting to the bitter end, and consequently giving hope to the rest of the galaxy through his/her sheer determination. If we adjust the Mars mission slightly by stating that Liara was looking through a new archive for reaper weaknesses (and that Eva did not save but simply transmitted then destroyed this data) we can keep this and get Liara on board.

2) The Reaper Weakness. This could simply be explained if a reaper's barriers work both directions. Thus they have to drop their barrier (at least in a localized area around the emitter) allowing fire. On Ranoch this was accomplished via a targeting laser due to the fact that no one had concieved of a targeting program wich would pick such a small target out. In fact as memory serves there is a salarian and turian on the citadel talking about making targeting programs for the war effort. Have Shepard give them the data and let them disseminate it.

3) The Space Battle. In the tradition of ME2 the fleet would be broken up to task oriented forces. Off the top of my head I can see there being ships tasked to draw reaper fire and ships that open up on them when they try. I'm sure bioware could make that a little more diverse. Let Shepard decide which fleets would be used for each part.

4) The Star Child. I understand that Bioware would like to make future games in this universe and that's fine by me. Have the star child show up on the bridge of the Normandy and make the same statements that the collector general made in ME2. If this seems repetetive keep in mind that this is the entity that has been controlling the thought patterns of the reapers and the collectors. It's only logical that they would think much alike. DO NOT try and have it explain why it created the reapers, as the reason bioware tried to give us makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. Just leave that for future games.

5) Ground battles. Considering that this is a ground battle based game its only reasonable that bioware would like to end the game with a rousing ground battle, not a fleet battle. But remember there are still legions of all manner of husks on Earth. In fact bioware could set it up so that Admiral Anderson's position is being overrun, and partway through the Fleet Battle Admiral Hacket orders the Normandy (its only a frigate remember) to reinforce Anderson. This allows for the climactic gound battle but could still allow for the Fleet battle to end after (those always create great cinematics).  And once again in the spirit of ME2 you could have to assign members of your assault team various missions.

Most importantly these changes would alter the tone of the entire game from the current 'nothing you did mattered, you just needed to talk to this entity that was under your noses the whole time' to a theme of 'no matter how dark the day, nor how black the night, never quit'. It also fits well with the percieved theme of the trilogy which seems to me to be the power of cooperation between disparate groups. Keep in mind you have several different races (many up to recently at odds with each other) fighting and dying for each other in the most massive space battle ever.

I would also like to point out that other than the Fleet battle cinematic all of my adjustments are to dialog and as such would be incredibly easy to make.  As to the different endings,  the choices a person made in the three games would still change the outcome of the war, but I always saw that as more of a 'how many people will be killed repelling the natzies (i mean reapers)'.

Modifié par Moorningstaar, 10 avril 2012 - 09:43 .


#6332
Moorningstaar

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@ B3CKETT

Do you really think that the choice that kills the Geth and EDI should be a golden choice.  Keep in mind the Geth fight for the right of all sentient life to choose (freedom), and EDI has been nothing but loyal to Shepard and his/her cause.

Modifié par Moorningstaar, 10 avril 2012 - 09:54 .


#6333
B3ckett

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Moorningstaar wrote...


@ B3CKETT

Do you really think that the choice that kills the Geth and EDI should be a golden choice.  Keep in mind the Geth fight for the right of all sentient life to choose (freedom), and EDI has been nothing but loyal to Shepard and his/her cause.


Yes, because from what BW has been saying is: EDI would be alive, even after the Destroy Ending.
Someone stated that the Starchild is bluffing and IMHO the Destroy ending means only reapers are destroyed, not all synthetics. I simplified it too much I think, but the devs have been talking like relays supernova? meh. EDI/Geth destroyed? Meh.

So no, I support the geth cause, because all they did was defend. And the geth from ME1 were only a fraction of them. It's just like somebody would sentence humans to death because of Cerberus.

Nah. They should live. At least in my playthrough.

#6334
Prom001

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better/more sidemissions?

most sidemissions right now are just hear people talk, go somewhere scan a planet & return to questgiver...
no landing on planet with at least a short level? Why?
Also on the onlyx hubworld all the sidemissions are just people talking. Dont get me work I like talking, but why no action at all?

All in all I think Me3 could have used at least another 12 months of work.
It feels empty and unfinished and I am not even talking about the ending.

#6335
Teukki

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I will copy-paste my thoughts on the ending, since it tells you what I want answered and done in the Extended Cut.

Jessica, even if someone complains, you can tell what he needs or wants from the complaint itself. People are not rude just to be rude, they just care about ME.

Now, my thoughts:

I registered here just to get my opinion on the ending(s) out there. If Bioware's listening, as they claim, I gotta do something. What I have to say has alreaby been said a million times, but I'll say it anyway.

I don't want to disrespect Bioware. I love Mass Effect. All the hours (around 300) I invested in playing these games, it wasn't just...it wasn't just playing for the hell of it. I loved the universe, I loved many of the characters, I loved the ability to choose your own reactions as Shepard's to nearly every situation. I loved the continuation from your ME1 save unti the end. Mass Effect was an experience, not just a game for me. Which I think is exactly as the game developers want Mass Effect to be. If anyone from Bioware just happens to read this - know that I applaud the hard work and the love you obviously have for the series. ME3 is awesome in many levels. From the early invasion of Earth to well-put together Tuchanka, you did everything extremely well. Clint Mansell's music is the final touch to make ME3 an amazing experience. I'm sad to say that because of the ending, ME3 doesn't have much replay value for me. The Indoctrination theory can and will answer so many questions and fill so many plot holes, that I sincerely hope Bioware is going with it. The Extended Cut - IF it goes with IT, doesn't even have to have gameplay in it, which I'm told it doesn't anyway. I can live with "Shepard fought the indoctrination, and now he and his team are off for a final battle" - ending.

That said, the current ending - if I take it literally - of ME3 feels wrong. I'm not a sucker for happyhappyjoyjoy-endings, so it's not that. I'm not even talking about the Catalyst yet, Many of the things leading to that event don't make sense. Why...why don't the reapers just destroy the crucible? Why (and how) is the Citadel warped to Sol system? To "protect" themselves, after the Illusive Man warned them? How can Illusive Man warn the reapers? Why on earth did the reapers construct that Citadel-Beam in London?

Then...then you get into the Citadel. For some reason, Harbinger just takes off. For some reason, Anderson got into the control room first, although there were no other paths. Everything just goes twilight zone after that. You believe everything the Catalyst-kid says, you can't question him, you can't tell him "NO". His logic is horrible. The whole incident just opens up so many questions (don't mind that, actually), but what's worse - so many plot holes as well. I like twilight zone stuff, don't get me wrong, but the very end just feels like a very unnecessary twist colliding with many basic "rules" of Mass Effect universe.

Then, I get to see how Joker (for some reason) races away and crashed to a planet. I get to see how Tali (my LI and also squadmate on earth) comes out of the ship. She isn't dead now? Harbinger supposedly blew everyone to hell before leaving for no reason. Then, Garrus (my squadmate on earth, too), comes out, unharmed. I really hope that wasn't something Bioware, or the people responsible for the ending thought as "let's give them something to be happy about, LI and favorite squadmate survives no matter what".

So...I really hope the writers ( I know they are talented) go with the Indoctrination theory. It doesn't matter if it was their plan all along or never - you can swallow some pride to make the end have more meaning.
If IT isn't happening, then...good luck explaining several questions. I hope you can figure it out. Bioware has talent, we know this, so it's not entirely impossible. Hope you let all of your writers to contribute (not like ME3 ending) and let your love for ME come first, not your pride.

I hope we wouldn't be treated as children who are too stupid to understand all the underlying themes the current endings have - we aren't. I'm sure the ending is something every ME writer has a different opinion on, themselves, so we (players, customers) can assume there are people pulling for the best possible content the ending DLC could have. If they let enough people work on it. We'll see when the summer comes. For me, Shadow Broker was the only "good enough" DLC, many others being mediocre. Hope you can top that one, even though they can't be compared as such when Extended Cut doesn't supposedly have playable content. The ending DLC will make a lot of difference to people like me, who are questioning Bioware's public attitude.

Thank you for reading. And Bioware, you know why we are frustrated and "loud". It's because we love this little thing called Mass Effect you have created. Take it as a compliment, even if some of us use harsh language. Tough love.

#6336
Sphynxian

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Feedback:

This is bad and lazy:

#6337
Sphynxian

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I would have loved to see an argument between Shepard and Harbinger.

Maybe the team infiltrates Harbinger like you would an enemy ship. Play up the Normandy's great "stealth" capabilities. Instead of landing on Earth, during the battle they instead "board" Harbinger in a last-ditch attempt to buy time. They go in with the intention of destroying him from the inside, but instead wind up finding another opportunity. They get into his "core" and see the biomechanical skeleton of whatever race he is a conglomerate of (Prothean, could be assumed for argument's sake) like the "Human Reaper" from ME2.

Harbinger could "assume direct control" of a humanoid creature or maybe a squad-mate to use as a voice to talk to Shepard in a verbal sparring match, instead of the Starchild.

Here Shepard would have had a chance to talk Harbinger down. "Indoctrinate" him to Shep's way of thinking, maybe even have Javik give some verbal blows too if Shep chooses to bring him. Maybe have some sort of view screen, and Shepard could point down to Earth and say something along the lines of "Don't you see that this isn't just Earth. This isn't just our cycle. This is your homeworld, this is your cycle! This is the homeworld of every race the Reapers have destroyed! This isn't just about us... this is you. EVery race you harvest, every race you think you're saving! Look at yourself, look at what you've become! Look at what the last breath of the Protheans have turned into!" Then maybe if Javik is there, motion to him. "Look at what you were!"

"Remember who you are. You are a nation -- independent. You are the Protheans, and you are not defeated. Not yet!"

Harbinger turns on his fellow Reapers, buys Shepard time to do what needs be done at the Citadel.

"Assuming direct control." Harbinger would bellow one last time -- not in tyranny, but defiance -- before opening fire on the other Reapers as the Normandy pulls away from his side, using the distraction to head to Earth.

#6338
roryw2203

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Like many I think the endings are in need of change, hopefully the clarification DLC will pick up the IT.

What I really wanted to ask for though is class specific armor. I know you can pick up various pieces of armor throughout the game and we have the armor sets made available at stores in game. But it is kind of a disconnect that Shepard always looks like a typical soldier no matter what kind of class you pick. All of the armor in game makes Shepard look like a typical grunt.

Why not something lighter for the Adepts or Infiltrator? I doubt any one could infiltrate much being bogged down in all that armor!

Just my two cents, class specific armour would do a lot to make Shepard seem an elite in the class the player chooses.

Modifié par roryw2203, 10 avril 2012 - 02:24 .


#6339
Lyrebon

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ShannonMoore wrote...

Indoctrination theory is dumb. I like vague endings where we need to use our imagination and put things together ourselves to come up with our own ending. Telling us everything just ruins the whole experience.

Just expand on it and that'll be okay.


Sooo, Indoc. Theory is dumb when there is plenty of evidence to support it in all three games? Shepard's been aboard a Reaper, she's handled Reaper tech, linked to a Prothean artifact. Saren himself says indoctrination is subtle, the subject isn't even aware of the change. Shepard's had headaches, and hallucinations that are indentical to the details described by other indoctrinated patients such as the rachni ("oily images").

The theory is sound, so why's it dumb? Oh wait, because you said so. Well thanks for clearing that up, your opinion is obviously adamantly correct.

You can disagree with it, just don't call people who postulate its possibility "dumb." Also, many people have explained why the ending was bad, take a minute to read them and watch the ending again.

Vague endings are only good if they make logical sense. Mass Effect 3's ending is illogical, it defies any amount of rationilism my imagination can conjure, for numerous reasons I've already stated before in other threads.

#6340
Durmir

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Hi,

I know there have been a lot of reactions towards the ending(s) of Mass Effect 3. But I felt like I HAD to post my own feelings and ideas here. I apologize for the length of what’s to come in my post, but again, I just couldn’t watch and wait, now that I have (finally) found the time to finish the game. Please excuse my English if it’s not good, and feel free to ask if there’s something that is not understandable.

First of all, I’m a big fan of BioWare. I’ve bought and played (often many times) nearly all your games, and I really, really enjoyed them. You are the one developers who brought storytelling to a level even above movies, and in some extent literature. And as a writer myself (not as a major occupation, though), I’m really fond of the job you did. The Mass Effect trilogy is a really good example of your prowess in the matter. You created here a story, characters, situations, and you developed ideas that can only be enjoyed at a Brobdingnagian level. And the very best was done on this last opus. I mean: during Mass Effect 3, I never felt so engaged in a game, I never felt so moved by the story, by the characters. Some sequences were just awesomeness in its raw state. And for that, I thank you.

And then, after a real big deal of emotion, fun, engagement, so much time with my hero through the all trilogy, deciding on crucial and cornelian choices that would change the galaxy for ever, I went to the end of the game, the culminating point of all of this. And it was the worst disappointment I ever felt in any story I ever read/watched/played. It was the right example of how you can totally ruin years of waiting, dozens hours of playing and the child-like amazement of a long expected and anticipated story. I was like this child you promised a wonderful candy for months, finally gave him, and at the very moment he was going to enjoy it, you throw the candy in the mud.

I don’t get why you had to ask a twelve years old Russian intern (no offense toward Russians, it would work with any non-english speaking people) to write the conclusion of this magnificent work. I read a bit, before ending the game, about how the last minutes were bad, but I didn’t want to believe it, and I didn’t want to be spoiled, so I kept playing and enjoying the game. Now, I feel like you stole me. I don’t talk about money here. I talk about how you stole me one of the best story ever, one I’ve been waiting and playing for some years now.

Why the ending is so bad, many people have already told you. I won’t try to list it again; I think you can find many places, many posts that will tell you better than I could. As a writer myself, I can’t forgive you most of the fails that concentrate in so few minutes, I’m talking about those that make non-sense towards the story, what we learnt about Reapers, what we learnt about characters, what we learnt about the universe you created. It’s like you wrote Mass Effect without knowing until the very last moment how it would end. That’s not a good idea, that’s not how you write a story.
Still, there were some solutions, some ideas you could have developed to come over and offer your fans an epic, immensely enjoyable ending to the best story you ever wrote, you the best storytellers in the game industry today. You had the means to create a legend with the trilogy. And all felt to pieces in the last ten minutes.

Actually, during the whole game, I was really excited and I couldn’t wait for starting another game with other choices, etc. Now that I know the ending(s), I’m just frustrated and I feel like starting another game would change nothing, whatever I do, and seeing this ending another time will be very painful.
That’s how I feel, and when I read what others said here and elsewhere, I think that’s what most people feel.

I understand you had to write a story that won’t depend only on the choices made in the first two games, as the choices in ME1 had quite a small impact on ME2. But you hadn’t to propose a fully independent story neither. My opinion is that you could have proposed like 3-4 very different endings for characters created in ME3. And, you could have proposed 2-3 more very different endings for characters created in ME2. Finally, you could have proposed 2-3 more very different ending for characters created in ME1.
Of course, considering how bad the ending(s) is (are) actually, the ones I’m thinking about would be different.
So, players who would have played only ME3 can still enjoy different endings depending on the choices they made. But the players who carried their Shepard (like myself) during the whole trilogy can see how their hero, and all what he/she chose during his/her journey changed the face of the galaxy through how he/she was. You wanted to show us the fate of a single being, and you wanted to show us that the way he/she is has a major impact on a whole galaxy. You wanted to show us, like in many other epic stories, how an individual, no matter are the thoughts he/she carries, can still make a change. Nice, very nice. Then stick with it, instead of what you proposed.
I won’t tell you how to write an ending, you proved that you have the skills to do so (i.e the epic, awesome, and very different endings of Dragon Age: Origins). But I can help providing ideas.

Here are some ideas I didn’t really work on, but I hope this can provide you an overview of the many things that can be done to improve dramatically the failed last moment of an otherwise epic story.
First of all, screw the god-child newly drawn character that should be removed for the sake of the story. Let’s imagine something else. I’ve always believed the Citadel to be a Reaper itself, like the very first one, created by beings of the very first cycle, which rebelled against them and reaped them to create more fellows (I let you imagine why; but if you want to stick with the idea of synthetics vs organics, it’s really possible). The Citadel could have been thought for what it is: a huge space station intended to be the center of the empire of the first cycle beings. But the A.I developed to sustain it took control and became the first Reaper. Oh yeah. But, as the first Reaper, it is not as evolved as the others, and it can’t go to the void outside the galaxy like others, and thus sleeps until its “children” come to wake it. That’s what Sovereign tried to do, and failed at. Let’s then say that, instead of a non-sense god child, you introduce the very king of the Reapers, who still has the codes and schematics for them, as well as everything that is to be known about them.

In the other hand, I think you should include all the main characters Shepard has allied with (Liara, Garus, Tali, etc.) in the battle on London. For example, they could cover Shepard’s back while he/she is trying to get to the beam, like in ME2. Anyway, that’s non-sense that they don’t follow to the death. I’d really enjoy seeing Jack’s students with her, firing biotics at Reapers, or Miranda leading a tech team, sabotaging defenses, as examples. We want to know the fate of the characters you made us so fond of. I really, really enjoyed, for example, what happened to Legion.

Here we are (I’m not 100% sure of the auto-choices if you create a character in ME3):

Endings shared by all ME players (whether Shepard has been created in ME1, 2 or 3; the Collectors’ station has been spared and given to Cerberus, the council has been killed but replaced as former with the four races):

• If enough war assets has been gathered:
- Happy ending (there should ALWAYS be a happy ending, where the hero lives and saves us all): Shepard interacts with the core of the Citadel, thanks to the Crucible, to find the code that the Reapers use to communicate, interact and share information. He then uses it to someway upload a virus (or anything like that) that would infect the Reapers’ main program and get them ultimately inoffensive and out of order. Joker comes next to pick Shepard back. The galaxy destroys the Reapers on Shepard’s order and everyone can enjoy a galaxy free of Reapers for ever, with Shepard being a living legend.
- Pragmatic nuance of the above ending: Shepard gives the order not to destroy the Reapers, as they are now inoffensive, so that they can study them and try to use the technology. But the indoctrination has not stopped (as it was in another module of the Reaper’s program). And the scientists became fonder and fonder of the Reapers’ way of thinking. Some decades later, eventually, they created a fleet with Reapers’ technology to destroy all sentient life in the galaxy, and a new war will begin. Shepard is still a hero, of course, and his/her final choice won’t have only a bad impact, as many discoveries gained through the study of the Reapers allow the races to get a huge improvement of their science, notably how mass relays work, and the ability to build more, with a hope of someday building some in another galaxy.
- Shepard chooses to control the Reapers, get indoctrinated doing so, the war goes on, the Reapers destroy everything, the cycle ends, the Crucible plans are found and destroyed (as Shepard knows where the plan can still be found), and everything starts again, as in the beginning of the second cycle. Everything is lost…

• If not enough war assets has been gathered:
- If there are very few war assets, then we can imagine that the fleet is destroyed by the Reapers while Shepard is trying to get on board of the Citadel. Now that Reapers have more troops to spend elsewhere, Shepard meets more resistance in London and aboard the Citadel, making the game more difficult. When he/she finds the Illusive Man, this one has been more indoctrinated, as he had the time to take the place of Shepard with the catalyst. He chose to control the Reapers, and felt like a god, became insane, and killed Shepard. The Reapers finally killed all sentient life except for humans TIM still wants to save until someday, eventually, he decides to kill them as well.


Endings shared by players who created their character in ME1 or ME2 (here, we’ll consider the Collectors’ station has been destroyed, you MUST have ME2 and made that choice to see these endings):

• If enough war asset has been gathered:
- TIM has not been indoctrinated, and at the last moment he offers his support to Shepard and his research on indoctrination and control allows Shepard to effectively control the Reapers if he chooses to do so, without being indoctrinated him(her)self. The now allied Reapers draw back, the war is over, very valuable scientific discoveries are made, that will allow the races to eventually travel to other galaxies some day, while finding a durable peace. The entire galaxy is gathered in the same union.

• If not enough war asset has been gathered:
- TIM is killed by the Reapers (he’s not indoctrinated, so he’s a target for them now). The fleet is destroyed as well. Shepard is killed nevertheless (even if not by TIM like the non-enough-war-asset previous ending), and the Reapers chose to use humans, as they see them as a big threat capable of destroying Collectors, to build the next generation of Reapers for the next cycle. But the crucible’s plans are saved by Cerberus and sent to the Yahgs for the next cycle, so it is built way before the next Reapers awakening, allowing the Yahgs to end the cycles.

Endings for players who created their hero in ME1 (the Collectors’ station is destroyed, the council is saved / replaced by humans, and other choices made regarding ME1):

• If Shepard replaced the council by only humans:
- Shepard fails to unite all races, as humans are hated in the galaxy for taking control of the council. Enough war assets can’t be gathered. Thanks to their nomad style and their gift in technology, Quarians manage to survive and accept to ally themselves with the remaining Asari and other races, sharing their hate for humans (humans taking control of the council made them ally tighter). They survived the following onslaught of the Reapers and will eventually be the first races of the next cycle, building the crucible and destroying the Reapers in the next cycle, which will be exactly the same, but without humans.
- Shepard can unite all races through negotiations (or a secondary quest), doing huge compromise (i.e. humans can be ejected from the council). Thus the endings are the same than the first choices above (for ME3 born characters) depending on your choices, except humans can’t be in the council anymore (or any other compromise).

• If Shepard saved the council:
- The council manages to save many batarians and other Terminus systems races due to their trust in Shepard’s warning as soon as Reapers show, which gives even more war assets. If all other war assets in the game are taken and the galaxy is fully prepared, Earth would be lost very fast due to the losses the humans took on saving the council, but is taken back as fast thanks to batarians and vortchas infantry, thus minimizing the destruction of the major cities of the planet. Thanks to it, Earth is rebuilt pretty fast. In addition, the huge fleet gathered allows them to retake Thessia as well and save what can be saved. Humans become the heroes of the galaxy, with Shepard as a nearly religious icon for generations to come. Seeing the prominent role humans can share, TIM dissolves Cerberus to the Alliance, considering his job is now done.

You can also imagine many other variations depending on other choices made. As an example, I enjoyed seeing that saving the Rachnis led to something in ME3, and I regret there has not been more (i.e. when you allow the crime baroness to go on her activities, she could as well become a war asset, etc.).
These are quick ideas I didn’t really work on. There are endings where Shepard dies, others where he/she doesn’t, you can have happy ending or dark doomed ones. That’s what I wanted to show: it’s possible to content new players, as well as the first ones, with really, really different endings. It is possible to keep our hero alive, it is possible to shape the fate of the galaxy. And the most important: your choices have a real impact on the future, YOU decide what it will look like, or you have to submit to the consequences of bad choices… And I don’t even talk about the cinematic, scenes or other stuff that would be pure awesomeness (seeing batarians and vorthas charging the enemy in London, seeing the hugest fleet ever to come back retake Thessia, seeing the plans for an intergalactic future mass relay, etc.).

Furthermore, if you try to get something like that (endings depending also on the previous games), you can convince players to buy and play the first two games if they liked ME3, cause they will want to try other options than the 3-4 they have with only ME3.
Again, these are just ideas, I’m pretty sure you can find a lot of mistakes, bad ideas, or whatever in what I exposed. The goal was only to mention how things could be handled to correct the hugest lacks of current endings.

Thanks for reading all of this, I’m looking forward for a free DLC with different, congruent, choice-based endings in a near future. I really hope my post here will help, even if it’s just a bit.

Modifié par Durmir, 10 avril 2012 - 03:32 .


#6341
Muhvitus

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I think all the things about what you could've changed have been said here. But i want to say what you got right. Mordin/Wrex genophage missions, awesome. Quarian/Geth missions, Awesome. Those missions were up to par with best of ME1 and ME2 or even better. They had the storytelling, they finished storylines that were on the game from the beginning and part of the world. They made you feel you made HUGE impact on the world. I almost cried when Mordin sang scientist salarian and died to give life to Krogan. I loved to see Tali on her homeworld and Geth offering Quarians a place to live. I was very sad by the sacrifice of Legion but i was optimistic as the sacrifice was for the right reasons and for better future.

You clearly have the skill, but somehow you fell short of this on other areas of game and especially at the end.

#6342
HantaVirus34a

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 This might be already been brought up....

I really think its dishearting that if you strive to make sure Tali and Legion are still alive in ME 2 and make them your friends. And have them resort out a peace treaty for everyone that you work hard to get. You pretty much have that thrown out the window for the end game for the (i think its the) paragon ending by having all geth die. I just find it interesting that you do everything for the right. But in the end your decisions to broker a peace treaty means nothing. 

I think you should at least have a clear ending where that hard work is rewarded. Not throw out the window for the geth, quarian peace treaty for the red ending. Because as i see it, the red ending i think is the paragon and well the green ending is just well ****. 

#6343
Dan Gleebahls

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Why are people still posting suggestions? It's over people! They already said that they aren't changing anything, they're just going to explain why the sh!t smells rather than get rid of it. Stop it.

Instead lets everyone repost this vid as hard as you can... maybe then they'll get it: www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Dan Gleebahls, 10 avril 2012 - 07:23 .


#6344
Robert-42

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It's me again.

I think a great solution to make even more people statisfied with not more than one day work would it be to add an additional "Community Cut" to the "Extended Cut DLC".

I am thinking of it the following way:
The ending, the Extended Cut will provide would be the standard. But in the Story Option hidden in the main menu there would be a checkbox labeled as "Community Cut" showing a warning that that's not the intended end when you choose it.

The effect would be simple:

everything after Anderson dies talking with sheppard (The not firing crucible, the starchild the choice) would be simply not shown. Instead the ending and epilogue after choosing the destruction would be played as intended by the Extended Cut DLC.

The whole series has been about choices, why shouldn't the player be able to choose, whether he wants an artistic ending or a more statisfiying for those, who don't think clarification would be enough. This still wouldn't make everyone happy, but alot more people.

I don't think this will be integrated, but anyway thanks for listening.

Modifié par Robert-42, 10 avril 2012 - 08:27 .


#6345
Lycius

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This sums it up nicely.

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

Other than the above article, the way Tali was revealed was simply insulting. Go to Deviant Art or simply do a google search for Tali and you will find hundreds upon hundreds of digital pictures of Tali that are far superior to the hack photoshop job we received.

BTW please explain how your artistic vision allowed for the end of ME1 when the reaper leader lives in the citadel....

Other than EA forcing the game onto us WELL before it was finished.

#6346
spyro396

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I would like to see vehicle dlc, like the hammerhead. i was dissapionted when it wasnt in ME3

#6347
thingamaBen

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I want to see cinematics of the various war assets Shepard's assembled. Also, I want to see the Normandy engineers walk out of the crashed Normandy at the end if the player upgraded the engines with that GX12 thermal pipe.

#6348
Lycius

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BTW Read this for some idea of why people feel so betrayed.

Here's the link to the review from California Literary Review:

http://calitreview.com/24673

#6349
Moorningstaar

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Dan Gleebahls wrote...

Why are people still posting suggestions? It's over people! They already said that they aren't changing anything, they're just going to explain why the sh!t smells rather than get rid of it. Stop it.

Instead lets everyone repost this vid as hard as you can... maybe then they'll get it: www.youtube.com/watch



I guess we're hoping against hope that if we keep pointing out the issues involoved the accountant who made these decisions will be fired and bioware will start listening.  Long odds i guess but we cling to that hope like -well we hope driftwood and not an anchor.

Good video but a bit long and, lets face it, he didn't cover a tenth of what was wrong with the ending.  I truly enjoyed the scene of Shepard shooting Starkid.  I might have to make that my new computer wallpaper!

I personally will wait for this much vaunted dlc, and if it truly does tank (depending on how badly) I may just stop investing in EA or Bioware games period.  If you no longer have the integrity to do what you promised, the intelligence to listen to your boss, or the dedication to ensure a completed product then you are not worth my money.

And remember WE the fans are the boss of these companies.  Capitalism my friends.  If you don't like the product a company puts out, then you dont buy that company's products.  That company fails.  Then another company that hasn't gotten so full of itself and remembers that it is selling a product that we still have to buy will take their place.  Of course the irony of this cycle is that that company will also get full of itself in time and we the consumer and boss will then have to kick them to the curb too.  But lets fight tomorows battle's tomorow.

In summation, Bioware we are giving you a chance here to fix your broken product.  Many of us are still waiting and hoping, and we are willing to wait for a while.  But if you insist on sticking with an illogical ending by claiming 'its art' you will become just the next starving artist claiming 'you just don't understand my art'.  Guess what?  If we can't understand it then you don't have a product to sell.  Now if your deliberately trying to ruin your company then by all means continue on your current course of action.  Can't wait to see how far your stock falls when you release your bubble gum fix for the sieve that is ME3s ending.

Modifié par Moorningstaar, 10 avril 2012 - 11:58 .


#6350
YumeKitsune

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Before I write about the feedback/suggestions, I just have to say that I loved the way the gameplay felt, but some “details” were left behind and as hitchcock said once, if you show a gun in the opening reel it has to have gone off by the end. Lots of guns (like the war assets) appeared but heard no “bang” at the end. While I expected an awesome ending, better than or at least equally engaging as Mass effect 2 was.
Mentioning hitchcock is not for nothing, it is because for me ME series were like films that I could decide who the main character was, what he/she did, how he/she would behave, a film that the outcome would REALLY depend on the decisions I made during the entire game.
I still can’t belive you guys worked so hard for the programming/developing/ elaboration of the ME3 game and only left the end so rough, lacking the care you had for so many years, leaving aside what players loved about ME, the decision/outcome process, the RPG aspects.
And the “bang effect” went the other way around...
Note: I´m not questioning Shepard dying heroically, It is not the issue, it is how things lead him/her to death.

But going back to the suggestions.

RaenImrahl wrote...
“The developers are looking for what *you* think. Emphasis on *you*.”
I know ... many have spoken about this or other topics. But I will say what I think.
_________________________________________________________ 

Topics:

1) War Assets
2) Kaidan Romance
3) Missions reports
4) What the rest of normandy crew is doing in the end


5) The ending

5.1) Indoctrination Theory
5.1.1) Shepard is indoctrinated
5.1.2) Shepard is indoctrinated/ synthesised.
5.1.3) Shepard controls
5.1.N) Conclusion

5.2) No Indoctrination Theory
5.2.1) Why give choices to the player at the end
5.2.2)The Boy
5.2.3) Destruction of the mass relays
5.2.4) Possible endings 
5.2.5) Joker running away
5.3.6) Why do Joker, Edi and Shepard’s love survive?


1) War Assets
Every race you helped during the game should at least be shown at the final scene, it is not necessary to show them in earth, but somewhere, doing something important to help the most important battle to the universe. Maybe distracting the reapers forces to somewhere else to help earth. Lots of suggestions about points and how they should be used were suggested so I won´t extend myself.

2)  Kaidan Romance
Being part of the female minority of gamers, I have to say that I never loved to play shooter games, I play some just because it is fun playing with some friends and family. But...
The first time I ever came to REALLY love a game with the shooter part included was with ME2 and it is mainly because of the RPG/ story aspect,  the romantic parts ^.^ .  Just to illustrate ^.^ -www.youtube.com/watch
And let´s face it, “hard core” games were not made by or for girls, and sometimes It seems that few care. (Even if it was an accident, ME is an exception, thank you ^.^).

So, I played the female Shepard and expected a little more conversations between Shepard and Kaidan after the Citadel scene, I felt that something was missing between this scene and the rest. This could be simply fulfilled with more little chats between characters, no need for long conversation. Or even in a quest for Kaidan students, where they have more time to work out their problems, away from the other crew members.
It was really awkward the way they forgave each other so easily... Even in the Cerberus facility when they look at the videos that talked about the procedures Shepard undergone, Kaidan had lots of doubts and was still little supportive.
Not mentioning the disappointment to see Shepard saying her goodbyes without really working out those issues...

I haven´t played the other romances yet but I have a feeling that there are missing conversations between the characters.

3) Missions reports
Sometimes in the middle of the game I felt lost, I didn´t knew if I had recovered or not some or other artifact, and I was not certain if I had or hadn´t the item to complete the quest. In ME2, I could easily see the progress looking at the missions log.

4) What the rest of normandy crew is doing in the end
Shepard should know where they were, where they were fighting, what each of them was doing. Some images should clarify that.

5) The ending
Perhaps I wrote more than I should here, but at least take these for an example of what I expected...

5.1) Indoctrination Theory
I agree with www.youtube.com/watch
with some changes, as I don´t agree with the when the indoctrination took place.
It is true that Shepard was in close contact with the Reapers all along, specially at the end of ME2. But He/She was not affected, because He/she was strong willed and had no doubts what had to be done.
But in ME3, he/she have many doubts, little hope, much pain and saw the death of innocents and dear comrades. When Shepard stood too close to the reaper again, He/She is affected after getting partially hitted with the reaper bean.
Without hope, almost dying, he/she had to fight indoctrination process, as the video suggests.

Why does the TIM boy  give choices to the player at the end?
There shouldn’t be choices to make, like A, B or C, because during the game the players acted in a way to help or not the Geth and Quarians, this kind of decision leave a mark with that person and people don’t change their mind so easily as psychology research would show us, it is not a coherent behavior to kill the geth once you saved them.
I’m not saying that it could not change, It could, but not in a simple conversation, perhaps in agreeing or disagreeing with the boy(image) or the illusive man in a passionate discussion.
Note that I don’t feel so betrayed by the boy showing up at the last minute.
So, after all this mind thing process, the Reapers/ the catalyst/ someone(=P)  are still interested in the Normandy crew. They want them and use Shepard to get them.

5.1.1) Shepard is indoctrinated
Shepard choose to kills syntetics, agreeing that all those robots AI are bad for organics.
Breaths again and can return afterwards as an enemy. He/She was not strong enough. Breathing again, coming back with the reapers strength. Opens the possibilities:
a) Shepard gives the order: “Stop the close combat, the reapers are controlled”.  Only to give time to the Reapers regroup and make their final move against earth and crucible. Shepard will belong to the reapers. The war is lost. The new cycle will start.
B) Shepard keeps struggling against the control and dies. Others will finish his/her mission.

5.1.2) Shepard is indocrinated/ synthesised.
Shepard choose synthesis
And becomes part of it´s conscience. His/her physical body dies, but can influence the reapers actions, sometimes protecting, sometimes attacking friends, in an eternal struggle. Others will finish his/her mission. Lots of possibilities:
a) Shepard has a romance
- Shepard fights against comrades, but can´t kill his/her love. His/her love can give the last blow, or not, Shepard´s conscience overcomes the reapers logic and leave those alive to escape before the end of the cycle.- Or can Kill them if they don´t resist enough.B) Shepard don´t have any romance
- Shepard is still struggling with the Reapers/ Catalyst logic. If friends resist long enough, they can talk or kill him/her while he/she stops the fight while trying to seize control.
- Or can Kill them if they don´t resist enough.

5.1.3) Shepard controls
Shepard control/fight the indoctrination to death. Others will finish his/her mission.

5.1.N) Any of these alternatives give an opportunity to a last fight or a closure of some sort for ME3. And different endings of a sort.

5.2 ) AI Boy
Ok, no indoctrination theory...

5.2.1) Inside the Citadel

- Shepard has a romance
Why not put a member of the team that was loved by Shepard if the player chose him/her to come along with him/her to the end. Shepard wouldn’t give a second thought to choose to die and  it would be a powerful scene that reflected the choice made by the player. It doesn’t matter if the paramour is alien, because Shepard could be controlled to stop/shoot the alien when he tried to kill the illusive man. And if the loved one died, it was based on the decision you made...

- Shepard don´t have a romance
Keeps Anderson by his/her side - It is a wonderful scene.

5.2.2) The Boy
Instead of a platform, it could be something like what Legion used to link Shepard to the geth.
The same thing at (5.1) Why does the AI boy  give choices to the player at the end?

5.2.3) Destruction of the mass relays
The Mass relay destruction is an event that should destroy everything around it. Also, doesn’t seem fair to make Shepard kill every system that he/she tried to save.
There is need to clarify this point, the end of the cycle cannot end with the mass relays destroying everything around it, it goes against everything he/she fought during ME3. I expect that something in the mass relays could trigger changes on those who were biotics

5.2.4) Possible endings
5.1.1, 5.1.2, 5.1.3 are still valid, just have to change the indoctrination struggle, for the moment he chooses to destroy, merge or control.  (AI still interested in Shepard and crew)
Some adjusts:
- Destroy - He may survive the explosion by reaper help
- Control - Shepard controls the reapers for a little time, but struggles. “Control or be controlled” stands true. And Shepard reaches to his/her crew, to attract them to the Reapers. Scene like the 5.1.2-a and 5.1.2-b may follow.

5.2.5) Joker running away
Joker was totally out of character. What happened to make he flee?
I can only imagine one way to make joker runaway from there: Through a direct order or help from Shepard before he or the crew members do anything to the Reapers or relays (preferably not blowing the entire galaxy with it).

5.2.6) Why do Joker, Edi and Shepard’s love survive?
Joker and EDI were inside Normandy, so whoever is left from the fight against Shepard may survive.

To Sum up, I know there are many other possibilities, I will pursue some more ideas later or complete with story example, but I really wanted to post this for some time and I hope It helped somehow.

_________________________________________________________
Last Appeal:

Please, don´t get stuck with preconceived opinions, I ask you all, believe in new models of games as Will Smith once believed in his “doll house” and EA supported.
ME is not a book or a film, this could be something entirely different. There is no need to force an ending.
It was about time? work? profits?
What is art?
“the making of objects, images, music, etc. that are beautiful or that express feelings”- http://dictionary.cambridge.org

“the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power- works produced by human creative skill and imagination” -
http://oxforddictionaries.com

“The use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others”- Britannica Online

When does art becomes art?

Why can´t games move beyond? Beyond children play? Because with this ending I felt that It couldn´t. It would always stuck in something.

In this game, the ME environment could offer us a huge range of experiences. Happy or sad... And if people want to experience a happy ending, why not?*

Don´t limit it.

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.” - yeah... words are wind... ( I hope not...
Fool that I am )

Ps: I truly hope someone read this... And if someone reads it... feel free to ask about ^.^
Ps2: I have not mentioned all the "guns" that did not bang... I will add it some other time. Or not, as people seems to have lost hope... :mellow:
* I had not the heart to give Shepard a good ending, because all in ME3, scenes, music lead to a dark end to Shepard, but why not?[/b]

Modifié par YumeKitsune, 11 avril 2012 - 12:18 .