7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Ileron]

Extra-Planetal wrote...

I personally don't want a happy/golden/sunshine and happiness ending. What I want is a ending where the Reapers win. I feel the outcome that is most lacking in Mass Effect 3 is one where the Reapers manage to wipe out the fleet, destroy the catalyst or manage to indoctrinate a important character (Udina was a missed opportunity).

I feel go with indoctrination theory for existing endings, have Shepard dug out of the rubble if the player got that ending (and only if he got that one), have him go to the Citadel, reach to control station and be greeted by Harbinger where he then explains why the reapers reaped. 

Have Harbinger then open a view port giving Shepard a view of how the Reapers wipe out the fleets with Harbinger explaining that the Crucible and Earth was nothing but a trap.

He then says some more things before he stops speaking to Shepard and his voice is then replaced by the footsteps of some husks coming to capture you (they could even be Shepard's squadmembers for added effect!)

You then see a montage of cinematics dealing with the deaths of all the main characters ending it where the Reapers exit through the Citadel relay with the screen fading to black.

The credits then roll and at the end of the credits you see a scene where either a Yahg or Raloi unearth and activate one of Liara's data recorders...

This would be the worst case ending

Short summary of over possibilities from worst to best:
1 - Reaper success, no after credit scene, Shepard has to fight indoctrinated squadmates

2 - Reaper success, no after credit scene

3 - Reaper success, data-device unearthed in next cycle

4 - Reaper success, Crucible revealed to be time machine. Shepard either transported to prevent Reaper creation by altering time stream (go with notion of time will sort itself out in the end) or transported to future to warn next cycle (former Renegade, latter Paragon)

5 - Reaper success, Crucible revealed, Shepard can choose to go forward or back in time.

6 - Reaper success, Crucible revealed, Shepard gets choice, can go with squadmembers he took with on last mission

7 - Reaper success, Crucible revealed, Shepard gets choice, can take entire Normandy with

8 - Reapers tacticly retreat in fight (full readiness). Crucible revealed, choice on who to send isn't Shepard's choice. Game fades with screen fading to black as Shepard and LI await whatever would happen

9 - Reapers nearly wiped out in fight, same as 7 but with added choice of sacrificing relays and Citadel to send Reapers forward in time (this and ending 10 I personally think shouldn't exist, but others may want it. If they do they must be nearly impossible to get)

10 - Reapers simply defeated in battle. Everyone happy.

This would be what I do if I was Bioware to fix it. And on people going "but they said no endings will be added", you are forgetting they already lied to use once, so anything is possible.

Notes on time travel - travelling forward in time is possible, you just need immense amounts of energy. Backward creates issues so the endings involving going backwards could be left out.

I totally agree! Here is another example of excellent idea coming from a devoted fan!Bioware, please, listen to us! It would be much simple to create a 1 hour long (free) dlc based on the indoctrination theory to complete one of the most beautiful series of all the times than trying to fix this mess only with some cinematic! You disappointed us once, if you'll do it again I fear it will be much worse for you, and it would be a shame that the same software house that gave birth to baldur's gate (to which I didn't played, but of which I heard wonders), kotor, jade empire, dragon age: origins, mass effect 1, 2 and the first 25-30 hours of mass effect 3 ended up like this!

[-IT-]

thor_viking wrote...

For what it's worth this is a proposed endgame put together based on numerous great ideas from the forums. I believe this is much more satisfying, removes plot holes and makes your decisions matter a whole lot more without completely changing the last mission. Like I said this is based off ideas from other posters so I claim no credit.

To start we obviously need to see more of our war assets in action. During the fight through no-mans land there should be cutscenes depicting Asari commando's setting up biotic shields, krogan fighting rachni, geths working alongside quarians etc.

Once we reach the beam and Harbinger arrives this is where the new ending would come into play.

1)  Shepard's team charges towards the beam but they are blasted by Harbinger.
2)  Anderson picks up a shellshocked Shepard and they continue towards the beam.
3)  The two squad mates are already there and hold off Reaper forces whilst Shepard and Anderson enter the Citadel.
4)  Inside they find Illusive Man who is attempting to control the Reapers.
5)  TIM uses his new powers to make Shepard wound Anderson.
 
 a) If collector base saved:         TIM is too strong and Shepard is made to finish off Anderson.
                                                   Shepard forced to watch as TIM attempts to control the Reapers.
                                                   It fails and he dies, breaking the hold over Shepard.
  If collector base destroyed:   Shepard resists TIM and spares Anderson.
                                                   A wounded Anderson shoots TIM in the side, breaking the hold over Shepard.
                                                   Shepard can shoot TIM or talk him into suicide.
                                                   Shepard and Anderson share their final conversation.

6)  Shepard opens the Citadel and Hackett docks the crucible.
7)  Harbinger takes over TIM's corpse and tries to convince Shepard that resistance is futile.
8)  Shepard must fight off an indoctrination attempt in his dream (by shooting the kid? mwahaha)
9)  Shepard resists and at this point can learn the reason why the Reapers are attacking.
     (Or not if the mystery works better.)
 
 a) Harbinger explains that as organic life grows so do the levels of dark energy. These energy levels are causing the
     galaxy to die as evidenced by the sun on Haestrum. The Reapers cull organic life to keep the energy levels safe
     and preserve the harvested genetic material within themselves. By resisting the Reapers Shepard is actually
     dooming the entire galaxy.
  New game plus mode would reveal the real reason. The Reapers are the ones causing the rise in dark energy.
     They have been trying to solve the problem by harvesting organics and using the genetic material to adapt their
     own evolution. The only way to stop dark energy levels rising is to destroy the Reapers.  

10) The Normandy has landed at the base of the Citadel beam and is dropping off the rest of the squad as
       reinforcements.
11) Harbinger offers to spare Shepard's squad and Earth until the next cycle if they give up now.  

  a) Shepard agrees so the Reapers leave Earth and harvest the rest of the galaxy before heading back to dark 
      space. The End.
 
  Shepard refuses so Harbinger attacks the Normandy. Squad mates could die based on previous choices.

12) Shepard prepares the Crucible to fire which will destroy all Reaper technology.
13) Harbinger leaves Earth and heads towards the Citadel. The allied fleet attempts to hold him off.

  a) 25% EMS:   Fleet fails to slow down Harbinger who reaches the Crucible and destroys it. The entire galaxy falls to
                          the Reapers. The End.
  50% EMS:   Fleet struggles to hold off Harbinger. Hackett is forced to activate the Crucible early in an unsafe
                          state. The blast kills the Reapers but also Hackett, Shepard and badly damages Earth. The End.
  c) 75% EMS:   Fleet holds off Harbinger long enough for the Crucible to charge completely. Someone must stay
                          behind to ensure it goes off safely. Hackett or Shepard can decide to sacrifice themselves. Crucible
                          detonates correctly and kills the Reapers. The End.
  d) 100% EMS: Fleet holds Harbinger at bay. Crucible charges completely and countdown begins allowing Shepard
                          and Hackett to evacuate. Crucible detonates safely and kills the Reapers. The End.

14) Epilogue scenes which reflect the choices you made.

There could be an explanation that once the Geth/Quarian alliance is formed the Geth introduced a safeguard into the Crucible design that means they aren't affected by the blast. The Protheans could also have altered the Crucible based on the research at Ilos to only use the Mass Relays as a delivery system and not have them destroyed in the process.

No star-child, no faulty logic, decisions taken into account, varied endings, Harbinger and EMS playing a bigger role.    
      

THIS!!!

[JelleV2]

 I can not even believe I spent as much time on compiling my feedback as I have done. It really shows huw much I have grown to love the trilogy. It took me ~20 pages to be satisfied with my feedback, I hope Bioware appreciates it. I really hope however someone will read it

Not sure if I can even attach a pdf file, so here is the feedback through Dropbox:

dl.dropbox.com/u/23981643/OnTheEnd.pdf


I would like to wish the entire Team the best of luck with the extended cut, I am eagerly waiting what you guys have in store for us!

[Flubberlub]

These are some suggested changes put into a poll format by myself
http://social.biowar...64/polls/32346/
Agree or disagree - its just a matter of opinion
The only way of sorting this out its by addition to the already existing ending, thereby not alienating existing fans of the ending

[SurfyBridge]

I think many of the posts above capture my thoughts perfectly. The most important thing for me would be a wider spectrum of endings that are more closely linked with the choices I made across the three games. We should have the option of a happily ever after if we want it and made the right calls. We should also have the opportunity to see the galaxy and those we care about destroyed if we screwed things up with our choices. The survival of squadmates/love interests/entire races would also hinge on these choices. This does not have to mean an exhaustive list of endings either. To be honest, I think that's the way I was expecting it to play out anyway and I'm not really sure why anyone thought it would be a good idea to go so far away from that model. It has worked so well in other games like Dragon Age: Origins. Incidently, the epilogue screens at the end of that were a nice personal way of telling you how your game play affected the world around you and the people you had interacted with, without necessitating masses of new footage/cutscenes.

Only other major complaint I have is that the single biggest decision that seems to affect the "choices" you have at the end was nothing to do with anything from any of the games but rather "do I play multiplayer or not?" The very idea that your success (or not) in SP should have to be linked to how much MP you play seems ludicrous for a game of this kind.
Don't get me wrong - I have loved 99% of the Mass Effect trilogy. I guess that's why I'm so disappointed with how it all ends.

[GirShep]

I'll toss in my 0.02 credits worth of suggestions...

First off, I must commend the Mass Effect team on something. One of the reasons there is such an outpouring of emotion about the ending is that you managed to do what very few developers have done: made the player really care about that blob of pixels on the screen (and I mean a deep emotional attachment!). It was an amazing ride. Thank you!

I actually like the bleak ending. I fully expected the one way trip into the Citadel, and I think you managed to capture the emotion and feel of it quite well. With that said, there are a few main things I think would be beneficial...

1) Something to explain how my squadmates - the ones who where definitely with me on the rush to the conduit, and presumably got wiped out with everyone else - managed to pop out of the Normandy on another planet. If you want them to live, to give that sense of hope, then a quick cut-scene of them getting on a shuttle would have worked (I envision Garrus wrestling a tear soaked Liara into the shuttle...). Personally, I figured they were dead, which just added to the whole sad desperation feeling at the end... and then I was confused when the showed up later...

2) Need more epilogue based on the decisions we made. Something even as simple as the text descriptions that Dragon Age used would have helped. Anything to show that our decisions had lasting effects.

3) A more relevant uplifting moment. Normandy on an isolated planet with its full crew was actually more sad than anything, if you think about it (no way to get home, not enough people for a viable population, etc). I would have rather seen something more at the core of the human nature, such as "determination in the face of adversity". As an example, something like images of the Earth being rebuilt.. panning over to the crew standing around the Normandy memorial (the one on the ship.. now transferred to earth), a narrative by one of the characters explaining the heroic efforts of the commander and how life goes on, and ending with a close up of the last two names added to the list: Anderson and Shepard.

but that's just my opinion... :-D

[AtlasMickey]

The Destroy ending should really show EDI and the Geth being burned like the Reapers. Polls on BSN overwhelmingly show that people chose Destroy – don't let them get away from seeing the negative consequences of their actions.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 18 avril 2012 - 10:20 .

[Sigiles90]

Well, like many others I'm disappointed by the ending of Mass Effect 3, so I'll write down my concerns here.

-The endings are too similar, many people have thought this, up to the point where I've heard people joke saying "Colorblind people only have 1 ending." Seeing as the only difference is the color of the explosion.

-A thousand unanswered questions are left hanging in the air. For example, the Arrival DLC of Mass Effect 2 states that when a Mass Relay blows up it is comparable to a supernova. We're not shown what happens to Earth or any of the other planets. We work with the information we have and we've been told that Mass Relay explosion = VERY bad for anyone in that system. We never get to know how the Normandy managed to get to the Charon Relay, with the crew onboard. Your team was on earth, how did they get up to the Normandy and how did the Normandy get to the relay before the Catalyst sent out the signal/pulse?

-A thing I really disliked was the lack of any kind of epilogue whatsoever. The story doesn't offer any closure at all, I would like to see some kind of epilogue like Dragon Age had. Where it told the story of the characters you've grown emotionally attached too. What happened to the galactic community? Was all the species stranded in the systems they happened to be in because of the Mass Relays being destroyed? Is galactic civilization as we know it over? Were the Normandy crew stranded on that planet they were on? Was the entire fleet that came to Earth destroyed?

-Plotholes were also present in this ending. For example that ghost kid says synthetics will always try to destroy their creators. But this is simply not true, look at the Geth. They live peacefully with the Quarians (if you make it so) and in the Geth Consensus you're shown that they never intended to destroy the Quarians, they just fought back as a means of self preservation. Second example, look at EDI. She is as synthetic as they come, and she is for all intents and purposes a person, a living person with her own feelings, opinions and views. And she lives peacefully with organics, she is even in a commited relationship with an organic (if you make it so).

-Decisions, this is what made Mass Effect so famous to begin with. It had huge choices with far reaching consequences. Moral decisions that you had to think carefully through. I hated the Geth with a passion in Mass Effect 1, saw them only as monsters to be destroyed, no better than the Reapers. Then in ME2 I was introduced to Legion and my views of the Geth was challenged, he told a different story, introduced me to a completely new way of viewing the Geth. But I was not quite convinced. Then in ME3 Legion took me to the Geth Consensus, and my entire view of the Geth was turned upside down. They wanted exactly what the organics wanted, to exist, on their own terms. So I brokered a peace between the Geth and Quarians. Too bad the ending made all these decisions meaningless.

-Ending rendered past decisions meaningless, this tore at me more than anything else. I killed the Rachni, saved the Zhu's Hope colony, saved the Council, cured the genophage, brokered a peace between the Quarians and Geth. And many other big decisions that was rendered pointless. With the current ending there's one of two things. If the Mass Relays blew up as spectacularly as in the Arrival DLC then I cured the genophage for nothing, Mordin Solus gave his life for nothing, as Tuchanka would have been destroyed anyway. The peace brokered between the Geth and the Quarians is meaningless as Rannoch is obliterated. Thessia, Palaven and Sur'kesh are also gone. It took away anything good I felt from destroying the Reapers and saving Earth when that planet would be reduced to a dustcloud in space a few minutes later anyway.
Even if the Relays didn't go Supernova it's still a sad ending, because everyone would be stranded in whichever system they were in when they were rendered non-functional. The turians and quarians in the fleet that assaulted earth would starve to death as they can't eat anything there. And by selecting what I saw as the "safe option" destroying the Reapers I evidently destroyed the geth, betraying Legion, and stabbed EDI in the back as well. 

-No matter how cliche a "happy ending" might be that is what most people want to see. If Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo getting his skull crushed by an orc who brings the ring to Sauron who then brings an age of darkness upon the world those movies would not be as popular as they are.

-Any good story has a good ending, and by good I mean conclusive. An ending that doesn't leave things hanging in the air, with a thousand threads not tied down. If the ending is one big cliffhanger most people are disappointed. A good ending wraps things up, brings closure to the one who reads it. Right now I'm conflicted.

So to summarize, I loved the games. They have an incredibly well written story, but I feel like the ending doesn't do any of it justice at all. Part of me really hopes that the ending I've seen is just a "vision" that Shepard saw after being knocked out by Harbinger, just some indoctrination vision or something, and that she can just get back up and run in the beam and bring destruction to the Reapers once and for all without sacrificing the entire galaxy she was supposed to save in the progress.

I also find it odd that BioWare would write an ending like this. The Mass Effect universe is really awesome and fantastic and it has a lot of untapped potential. I wouldn't want the Shepard story to progress any further, but there are a lot of good stories that could be told in that same universe through other games, books, comics and such.
Like with the Dragon Age universe, other stories can be told through other protagonists.
But that can't happen with the Mass Effect universe if the ending basically destroys the entire galaxy as we know it, with everyone either dead or marooned on planets with no way of contacting or travelling to others.

Sorry for writing so much, tried to make it short but I failed spectacularly.

[Ownedbacon]

Get rid of the Catalyst character being the Reaper mastermind and the whole destroying advanced organic life before they destroy themselves with synthetics. These two things ruin the Reapers and the synthetic vs. organic life wasn't the main focus of the Mass Effect series. If anything make the Catalyst be a VI or AI that acts is a Citadel failsafe that is there to prevent you from using it against the Reapers. Have it be a Reaper but not their overlord. As for their motivations make it so that the Catalyst now corrupted by the Prothean sabotage mentioned in ME1 now has the "good will" to explain things to you and possibly help you. The Catalyst now corrupted decides to help you activate the Crucible showing the other possibilities. The Reapers motivations if explained should be about how organic evolution is chaotic and unpredictable and will lead to the complete domination of other species and/or destruction of itself. But the Reapers 'ascended' to the pinnacle of evolution know how to bring order to this chaos by setting up order that organics follow to evolve and destroy them before they ever overtake the galaxy and wipe out the Reapers. The Reapers then reproduce and with the harvested organics and still maintain their superiority in the galaxy.

[shnellegaming]

Please fix the flashback during death scene so we can flash to more then just Joker Anderson Liara Kaidan or Ash.  Id like your LI in there for sure and especially Garrus and Tali no matter what.  Thank you.

[JKA_Nozyspy]

EDIT: Oops, posted by mistake, i wasnt paying attention!

Modifié par JKA_Nozyspy, 19 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[shepLJ]

Background.

I was a devoted ME fan - I even bought my nephew copies of ME1 & 2 to play pre ME3 so we could share the experience. I am a mature gamer - my first games were space invaders on the cafe table consoles - so yes I have been around a long time. I played ME1 and was hooked with the degree of player agency and the idea of decision implications was a joy. I work with people everyday in making "good choices" so this was an enlightening experience with me. I loved ME2- it was glorious and I enjoyed slipping into the ME universe and catching up with squaddies - even fell in love etc.

Collectors edition ME 3 was anticipated for a long time - on preorder for over a year and I even bought the N7 Hoodie. I wa the "first" in my home town to get the ME3 game because I went to the Midnight launch. I was so disappointed I could not get to canada for an autograph so Jennifer Hale and Ally etc...

ME 3 Changes? I know these games, they are like the well worn pages of a beloved book and I was shattered by the ends.

1. they did not make sense. The logic is not rational or even remotely connected to the thematic analysis of the previous game. The three overarching ideas of Contol, synthesis and destroy can work but with no variation? No!

The variations need to be explicit in the rationale used by the Reaper AI and Sheps responses - Only three choices in my mind, simply won't work - the paths are too homogenious and lead to conceptual deadends

This current story structure, contracts a fundamental premise in the games which celebrates diversity, overcoming of obstacles through appreciation and respect for difference. Even limitation was ultimately a celebration in previous games. This theme was further expounded in the javik character, yet dismissed and disregarded in the endings..

I was disappointed how some of the richness of ME 2 was dismissed in ME3. The effort put into Thanes story in ME2 and he was just killed off in ME3. I did not find out what happened to the gang queen turned social worker from Omega - nor the fate of omega ( a place of great sentimental fondness in ME2). t

To quote the ME2 Game - No one F****s with and yet she was left sitting in a citadel nightclub cussing the name of the ILM with threats of dire consequences that went ....nowhere.

What happened to the thug - who tried to kill Tali in ME1 - He ended up on Omega bitterly complaining about shep forcing him to leave the citadel.

What happened to the young quarian who I paid a $1000 credits to complete his pilgrimage.

What happened to everyone we met on Omega?

Why did we have to be chased by Reaper in exploring -planets I felt like I had been transported to a kiddie version of ME1 and 2 - I miss the exploration of planets etc.

The whole game was sooo incredibly short - I finished it in 22 hours ...I have spent hundreds on the other games.

The narrative logic of the ending is mind blogglingly inane

"Kiil organics because organics will eventually create synthetics who will rebell and eventually seek to wipe out all organics.... ...... ...... ..... I am still shaking my head at that one.

What happened to Dark energy story line? It has enormous potential and it was a big ..nothing!

what happened to Harbinger - the big scary reaper we had all grown to loathe and distrust ? He had absolutely nothing to say... this I found bizzare. Shep had been important enough for multiple dialogues in the past games and suddenly ...nothing??

What happened to my little blue children or at least the option of that being an ending?

What happened to all my squaddies.

Why was Joker flying off in the Normandy - this is just incongruent with the whole relationship.

How did Hackett know Shep was on the citadel?


Why destroy all the relays and strand everyone race who came to earth in the sol system?

Did they all die of strarvation around earth or on the FTL trip home which would take years or decades etc to get back too. Which races survive or died as a result of Shep - three pronged fork choices?

What happened with the Asari homeworld ...and the rest - rannoch and tuchunka were excellent story lines - why not the rest of the squaddies stories.

Did my fish and hampster still survive.

How did my Shep survive after all my synthetic implants being destroyed - or was there a caveat that only fully self aware synthetic life would be destroyed?

How did my squaddies who were fighting with me in London get back on the normandy and then run away?


The indoctrination theory saddens me - becasue it tells me people are desperately trying to find meaning in a senseless set of narrative that deviates so wildly from the original games (as make me wonder if someone messed up the quality control cycle of the ME3 production print).


the multiplayer could, like the campaign be brillant but it suffers from countless drop out and routine and boring drops. Please consider a war mode - 20 plus players against AI- would be unbelievably good fun..

Summer is a long way away.. I wish you well with trying to redeem one of the best gaming experiences I have had up unitl this last game and its god awful ending.

[3DandBeyond]

I want my choices to help determine the best and worst possible endings and everything in between. I want circular logic (if you absolutely must keep the UGH starkid) to be replaced with logic. Don't insult my intelligence with a super computer kid VI that thinks "the created will always rebel against the creator" makes sense and is always true. Don't make all that has happened or that I and my friends have sacrificed always be in vain. I much prefer the ME2 ending to this one because my choices did directly impact whether a squadmate would die.

I want the fullblown choice to have people, including Shepard, come out alive and reunite and the reapers are destroyed, as well as the fullblown choice that all is destroyed this cycle and the reapers succeed. I also want choices leading to the reapers destruction but with Shepard and all paying the ultimate price. Or, just Shepard dying. Variations based upon my actions and choices. Ultimately, I want you to return the story to one about my character and those s/he cares about and how they together fight this foe and what impact it has on them ultimately. Your great stories have always been about these people and their relationships set against horrible foes. What we are now left with is Shepard alone being upstaged by a character we feel no connection to. It's all about the starkid and the reapers at the end and Shepard doesn't even really matter. His/her friends matter even less. Please.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 19 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

If they want tips on how to do a heroic ending:

Dragon Age: Battle for Denerim:


Victory at Helms Deep:


Battle of Pelanor Fields:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNaKHwKJhIw&feature=related

[Akeotwawki]

Sorry, but I don't understand why this thread exists.

Bioware has repeatedly stated that they aren't going to change the ending.
So why this pointless exercise?

But, just to stay on topic - here's what I want - what I was promised by Bioware's own promotional material:

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome”.

“Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

That's what I was promised, paid for, and failed to receive.

[Akhara]

Why can't they do what they did for the Rannoch mission?

Sad- legion and Geth dies (excellent conclusion)

Sad- Tali commits suicide (excellent conclusion)

Happy- Peace (excellent conclusion)

Why couldn't they do this for the ending? Rannoch had multiple amazing endings that catered to whether or not you wanted a happy/sad conclusions....and no one complained about a 'depressing'/'rainbows and ponies' conclusion.

Also very few plotholes...and the ones that were present were easy to ignore!

[Akhara]

Also, isn't the starkid supposed to be of 'higher intellect'. No matter how I look at it, his logic seemed to deal only in absolutes which is reminiscent of religious zealous. Any conventional individual would question or oppose his ideals...so why did Shepherd just go with it?

[Lordambitious]

I LOVED the game, but that enjoyment began to falter towards the end of the Cerberus base level. At this point, there are too many plot jumps to make sense, even given the context of a frantic mad dash. How/ when did the Reapers take the citadel? How did they get it to earth?

When I jump through the Charon Relay, I saw the Quarian ships, but where were my Geth, Batarian, Elcor and Rachni Fleets?

On Earth, where were the Geth Primes, Krogan Battlemasters, Asari Justicars, Rachni legions? It would have been much more engaging to be able to actually SEE them participating in battle, watching the Justicar duke it out with the banshees in pseudo cut scenes, etc. Rachni Brood Warriors teaming up with Krogan Battlemasters to take down some Reaper heavies, Salarian STGs laying down traps.

if the Illusive Man was indoctrinated, at least explain how he ninjad himself onto that room in the citadel, you know the room with one entrance that Anderson beat you to, despite arriving after you.

This is just my personal preference, but if you fail to get the illusive man to off himself, have Harbinger "Assume Direct Control" and have that happen any way when he shoots himself, like what Sovereign did to Saren.

The Catalyst needs to be overhauled to fit the Lore from the previous games, as it stands, it makes no sense whatsoever.

A wide spectrum of endings and variations procedurally built from your decisions should be implemented, as was promised from the get-go.

If the Catalyst controls the Reapers, why is "control" even an option? moreover, why can't Shepard directly challenge the Catalyst's logic regarding Organics and Synthetics, especially given the Priority Rannoch conclusion that my Shepard achieved (made peace).

The central conflict should still be man vs. dark lovecraftian machine god, as opposed to introducing a new character (Catalyst) and replacing the aforementioned central conflict with the logically unsound Organic v. Synthetic in the last ten minutes, and then resolving that plot in the same ten minutes.

Moreover, the choices throughout the series/game needs to effect the ending, as opposed to discarding those choices once I reach the A B or C ending.

And this is just me personally, but the War Assets need more representation beyond a number score. Nothing big, but still, part of the appeal of Mass Effect has always been the details.

and Again, i was expecting this based on the marketing, but it wasn't explicitly stated, but if I worked hard enough, and did good enough, there should be a way to save the galaxy from the reapers, overcome overwhelming odds, and come through alive (VERY SLIM CHANCE) without destroying galactic civilization.

And the opposite should hold true. like in ME2, if I fail to properly prepare myself and the Galaxy, the reapers win, and all we get is some alien race finding Liara's Black Boxes in 50k years.

As for the destruction of the Mass Relays, those should be relegated to the lower end of the spectrum of ending happiness.

And, philosophically, synthesis is directly opposed to the entire philosophy of the series. It violates any individual self-determination or free will, and massively violates the rights of every individual in the galaxy, and eliminates any kind of diversity there was as well, for these reasons, I feel synthesis should be tweaked or removed.

And if you could address the Dark Energy plot threads from ME2, that would be brilliant, no one likes a Red Herring.

[T.Attwood]

Akhara wrote...

Why can't they do what they did for the Rannoch mission?

Sad- legion and Geth dies (excellent conclusion)

Sad- Tali commits suicide (excellent conclusion)

Happy- Peace (excellent conclusion)

Why couldn't they do this for the ending? Rannoch had multiple amazing endings that catered to whether or not you wanted a happy/sad conclusions....and no one complained about a 'depressing'/'rainbows and ponies' conclusion.

Also very few plotholes...and the ones that were present were easy to ignore!

Yes, the Rannoch story was brilliant. One thing that might even improve it, is actually have decisions that are 'timed', i.e. have the whole thing in 'real-time'. For example, Legion begins the upload, which sets off a timer for the player to make the appropriate choices. Tali begs you to make the right choices, and you are given the dialogue options to help the Quarians, Geth, or otherwise. But, while the dialogue wheel is available, the upload continues. If the upload finishes before you have made your choice, the Geth/Quarian conflict would have played out in whatever way as it currently stood. I think things like this would add even more tension to decisions.

[George Costanza]

Akhara wrote...

Why can't they do what they did for the Rannoch mission?

Sad- legion and Geth dies (excellent conclusion)

Sad- Tali commits suicide (excellent conclusion)

Happy- Peace (excellent conclusion)

Why couldn't they do this for the ending? Rannoch had multiple amazing endings that catered to whether or not you wanted a happy/sad conclusions....and no one complained about a 'depressing'/'rainbows and ponies' conclusion.

Also very few plotholes...and the ones that were present were easy to ignore!

This^

Sad endings can be wonderfully done. And a lot of the sad bits in Mass Effect 3 were among the best. I was genuinely wounded when Mordin had to sacrifice himself for the sake of the Krogan. I had a tear in my eye. It was brutal, but it was so well done, and that sort of emotional reaction is exactly what the ending was missing.

Mordin, Thane, Miranda, Legion... they all died in my first (and only finished) play through and I felt something every time. There were actions and clear consequences and we had to deal with them. But the ending fails at this when it is most important. Because you're shown no repercussions for your actions and your choice, and because the nature of your final choice is so poorly explained, you're left more confused than anything.

A good, emotional choice is always best when it is at its simplest. Think about it; a supervillain ties you to a chair and gives you two options. He's either going to raise the global temperature by 2C, or he's going to increase global rainfall by 5cm. Now, I'm not a fancy television weatherman, nor do I have any particular interest in climate issues, and so faced with this issue I'd be somewhat bewildered as to what effect either choice would actually have on the world. It would be a toss a coin situation and see how it plays out. If the megalomaniac gives me a choice between pushing a button that kills every African child, and pushing a button that kills every European over 80, I can clearly see the pros and cons of each choice and I know exactly what pushing the button will do. The simpler the issue, the easier it is to get the emotional response you want.

Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 gave us final choices that were clearly defined that had their own pros and cons. Mass Effect 3 however drops you into a choice of three endings with very little explanation. I spent a while thinking about my choice; not because it was emotionally taxing, but because I didn't know what I was supposed to do. We couldn't ask questions, and we just had to go along with whatever the space brat said. Having little idea of what the actual fate of everyone would be before I made my choice, and then being shown next to nothing of the consequences of my choice meant that the ending had absolutely no emotional impact for me. I was ambivalent towards the entire thing. And for a game that had evoked such emotional responses from me earlier in the game with characters I cared less about, it was tragic that the sacrifice of the most important character of the series made me feel nothing.

Sad endings can work. They can be fantastic. Sacrifice is a very powerful literary concept. But for a sacrifice to matter we have to know what we're saving. We have to know what our sacrifice means. We have to know what we're doing and why and the decision should not be difficult through confusion but through the potential consequences.

I would have had no problem with a sad ending in Mass Effect 3. I would have had no problem with shedding a tear for Shepard as he takes one for the team to defeat the Reapers. But the complete lack of any indication of what my sacrifice achieved made the whole thing seem pointless to me. Hopefully the extended cut will clarify things enough to give the game the emotional climax it deserves.

Obviously, none of this touches on any of the numerous plot holes and how inconsistent the tone of the last fifteen minutes is compared to the rest of the series. Those are serious issues with the ending too, but that's for another post. What I think I want most from the revised ending is for it to seem like any of it matters. Like my actions actually achieved something.

Frankly, I don't see how they can do it because the ending is a trainwreck. It feels like it was finished by a completely different studio who'd never seen the games and had only read the plot so far off the back of a cigarette packet during a night at the pub. But until the end of ME3 they'd never let me down, so I'm willing to give them every chance to sort it out. Fingers crossed, because I never feel like playing a Mass Effect game again with things as they are.

[NetAndy]

Akhara wrote...

Why can't they do what they did for the Rannoch mission?

Sad- legion and Geth dies (excellent conclusion)

Sad- Tali commits suicide (excellent conclusion)

Happy- Peace (excellent conclusion)

Why couldn't they do this for the ending? Rannoch had multiple amazing endings that catered to whether or not you wanted a happy/sad conclusions....and no one complained about a 'depressing'/'rainbows and ponies' conclusion.

Also very few plotholes...and the ones that were present were easy to ignore!

I agree, they are pretty capable when they want. I thought that ending will be similar to suicide mission in ME2,  where you used your squadmates for different tasks and you had to be prepared to save everyone. And also with pretty good boss fight in the end.

[Starch]

My take on the ending: (even though its highly unlikely to be taken into account. Also might be too corny Apologies )



*Citadel moved to near earth, the whole reaper fleet should now be concontrate there being the  citadel
 is extremely important  for the reapers to their cycle of destruction (given the protheans messed up its automated commands, which i think is fixable) as they  used it as entry point from the dark space so they should now be protecting citadel.

*Moar spaceship lazer battles plz. 

*Scrap the starchild encounter -> replace with harbinger

*Harbinger flies directly to citadel/crucible to obliterate shepard.

 *Harbinger explains to shep what does the crucible/citadel can do,  which i think should be something  giant mass relay could do  - FTL transport. But instead it is now supercharged with the crucible and doing so would result in total destruction of SOL system. 

*Face of with harbinger, -> action or conversation (i prefer conversation, since most of the time the reapers just tell shepard " you cannot fathom our existense" thingy) 

*IF Action, a handicapped fight against undead TIM. Like saren, but your on your own, and you can only use the handgun. (like the ZOE battle against anubis)

*IF conversation you can convince/charm/intimidate/bully/lie harbinger which should reflect directly to your on your EMS and reputation.

*ENDING could be 
1) convince/intimidate harbinger to leave and spare us until the next cycle - harbinger would be believe you and leaves but vowing to return again for the next cycle.  (harbinger would only believe you if you have enough EMS [a bit corny])
2) The crucible is a lie and order the fleet for a  total warfare - which would result in to either use the citadel or war of attrition.
   Total Warfare results 
    A)Total warfare which could result in destruction of the citadel which supernova like the arrival. 
    B)Total warfare but combined fleet is overwhelmed and their sacrifice inspired the rest of  galaxy into fighting the reapers. - Result unknown. 
    C) Total Warfare, the combined fleet suceeds in destroying reaper fleet. (kinda unbelievable)
    D) Reapers succeeds in this cycle and lays waste to the current civilization

5)if all else fails , shepard could fire the crucible/citadel and shoot everything out to dark space which would result in total destruction of everything in sol (combined fleet, reaper fleet, )

Epilouge.
After the ending cinematics grandpa/grandchild can be heard talking to about "the shepard" and how he saved the galaxy etc however instead of the tree you can see a shepard memorial in the presidium and screen pans up to show that remnants of earth and the citadel is now permanently located near earth. 
 

Modifié par Starch, 19 avril 2012 - 10:47 .

[trololol123]

Redo the ending, and fire the people that made the last endings.
Its way way way below bioware standards...

i dont think am the only one who thinks that btw, just so you know

[mad_yojik]

Well here is what I would suggest:

1) Make boy-dreams ("nightmares") skippable at 2nd playthrough (and if possible in 1st one). They are just annoying. Not sure what they were intended to be, but they are not scary, not interesting in any way, not emotional, and they do not present player with any choices (so why give player control over Shepard during them is ridiculous... I even cant shoot anyone). In fact - making them into non-intercative skippable cutscene (the player can do nothing but run to the boy and watch him burn anyway) should do the trick. And also it would be good to have possibility to skip all (not some) cinematics, they are quite time-consuming if you re-play.

2) Fix the journal/codex. In the form they are in they are unusable. The ME1/2 had good journals, with progress updates and so on. They had a separate codex, which also was fun to read. What is now - is like some sort of indie-RPG journal, seriously. Getting info from it... problematic.

3) Add a "scannable" missions, like ME2, so we would not only "retrieve artifacts" but also find someting funny.

4) Add a vehicle missions, best of all like Mako driving on ME1, where you can at any moment get away and continue on foot, but "hammerhead-like" (with fixed landing locations) will also be ok.

P.S. The game is great as it is, but there can always be better. And thanks for adressing ending issues, Its just great you listen to us fans. (Or at least to those of us who doesnt spit and rage "I want HAPPY ending ").

P.P.S. Sure the last two is for future DLCs (not patches), but I would gladly buy one with vehicle and "hidden" missions.

Modifié par mad_yojik, 19 avril 2012 - 11:42 .

[Graius]

I've skimmed things but I'd echo everything Lordambitious, Sigiles90, Ownedbacon and George Constanza said. The lack of resolution or any real choice, with no idea what the rationale or effect of the endings might be, was bad. Worse, though, was the completely incoherent and illogical motivation given to the Reapers by the Catalyst child. It simply did not make sense. The whole end sequence felt rushed, incomplete and inconclusive. Saying Destroy killed the Geth/EDI looked like a poorly-executed attempt to force the player to consider two poorly-explained alternatives that otherwise lacked justification by introducing a cost with little justification.

I dislike the ending in its current form to the extent that I'd rather just treat the series as ending after Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel. It's simply too incoherent to be salvaged in its present form given how utterly illogical the Reapers' motivations are supposed to be.

I would frankly have been happy were there be no direct choice over the ending, but instead everyone going through the same actions, but with the consequences determined by everything else you did hitherto.

The destruction of the mass relays was also, without any further context, deeply frustrating. It renders pretty much everything you spend the game, and the rest of the series beforehand nugatory, for the reasons others have already given ad infinitum.

The lack of resolution and creation of ambiguity was inappropriate for a game of this kind. Mass Effect presents itself as a game all about choices. For those choices to be real they have to have consequences. Mass Effect worked by showing you what those consequences were. As it stands we're given not only a poor set of choices, but no real understanding of what those consequences are. It goes against everything that went before in the series, and undermines its central premise and selling point.

In short, I'd prefer an alteration to the ending that at the least:
1. Provides the Reapers with a credible motivation;
2. Presents the player with a real choice, rather than the poorly-executed one we have at present;
3. Shows the consequences of that action;
4. Shows the wider consequences of your actions throughout the games;
5. Does not always result in the destruction of the Mass Relays;
6. (Optional) has at least one optimal/happy ending, even if it's only achievable on a second play through on Insanity with 100% Readiness and maximum EMS.

As it stands, the current ending has soured my experience of the series (which I played from the first, bought all the DLC for, replayed repeatedly, bought the soundtracks, and even bought an xBox and repurchased all the content and DLC for to ensure I'd have a system powerful enough to play ME3). I was going to instantly replay and import my other characters, but now I am much less inclined to do so. I have lost the appetite to play what I have, let alone the multiplayer or DLC.

I'll be blogging about this later and will flesh these ideas out a bit more then. When I do I'll put the link up here. I am disappointed.