7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Bowie Hawkins]

zarnk567 wrote...

"Our quotation pyramid shall blot out the sun!"

Then we shall post in the shade.

[Mr Regarde]

This isn't the best argument I've ever made, but I've already written it down, so I might as well post it:

People have been quoting other reviews and critiques all across this thread, and I get the feeling that we're trying to mask our sincere thoughts with what we consider a civilized, well rounded retort. Basically, we're just parroting the other critiques points we read 'cause it makes us sound smarter. That may work to reinforce opinions, but I don't think it's exactly honest. If we didn't listen to all those discussions or read all the reviews, we wouldn't be here blaming Bioware for "Logical Fallacies" or "Lack of Denouement" or whatever, we'd be here crying for much simpler and more selfish reasons. At least, I would be. I wouldn't be talking about "logical Fallacies," I'd be crying "You didn't give me a future with Tali! Waaah!" I still am, in many ways.

The point I want to make is that if we got the super-happy-joy-joy ending right off the bat, we probably wouldn't be complaining about all those other hang-ups. We probably wouldn't even be upset with the starchild's logic - we'd acknowledge it sucked, but we wouldn't be complaining, 'cause at the end of the day, that stupid logic got our LIs home happy and let our Shepards save the galaxy. The ends would justify the means.

I can only speak for myself, however. A lot of much smarter people would still take issue with the ending, as it should be. The critiques on the ending's structure and themes are still applicable; they're just not the main reason as to why I myself was most upset with the ending. You should still totally fix the rest of the ending, don't get me wrong, but I'd like a happy ending over anything else.

So, yeah, I'll sit here and read critiques and pass on the eloquent points I take from them, but at the end of the day, I'm just a selfish brat, and I want a happy ending.

[Mr Regarde]

Ouch! Now, that was a hasty argument! Please, take it with a grain of salt.

[cindercatz]

Ok, one more thing I'd really like, though it's not mandatory like fixing the ending or anything.

The game's weakest sections are at the end, and at the beginning, on Earth before the Reapers hit in particular. I wish we could see the actual trial and let us make our game state decisions there (who's alive, who's dead, the rachni, the collector base, our love interest from both games prior, the big stuff only). Treat it as an optional opening to replace the little checkbox menu thing, which was decent but nowhere near detailed enough.. I want to choose which squadmates from ME2 are alive, who my love interest is in each game, etc., because I don't have time to go back and play the whole trilogy for any new character I might want to play. It would take a few minutes of rapidfire cuts across what would really be a long ordeal, with a few familiar characters on the witness stand, including our Shep. It would add much needed personal drama to the opening of the game. I'd even pay for it. It's better than a recap comic, after all.

And please, please, please give my Sheps something else to say besides "We fight or we die!" or it's equivolents. I want my Shep to start actually spelling out what he or she knows about the Reapers, only to be interrupted at some point by the news that the Reaper attack is immenent. It's a great way to catch new players up to what the Reapers actually are besides big dumb robot space squid with lasers. As is, basically all the opening does is say the Reapers are threatening, they're here, and we're under attack. Way too simple, and it makes my Sheps sound way too simple minded.

Obviously these are nowhere near as big a deal as the ending getting properly fixed, but they would greatly enhance the early part of the game and increase both replayability and player accessibility.

Modifié par cindercatz, 24 avril 2012 - 06:51 .

[Eclipse merc]

Zuka999 wrote...

thor_viking wrote...

For what it's worth this is a proposed endgame put together based on numerous great ideas from the forums. I believe this is much more satisfying, removes plot holes and makes your decisions matter a whole lot more without completely changing the last mission. Like I said this is based off ideas from other posters so I claim no credit.

To start we obviously need to see more of our war assets in action. During the fight through no-mans land there should be cutscenes depicting Asari commando's setting up biotic shields, krogan fighting rachni, geths working alongside quarians etc.

      

Please, for the love of god, this! BioWare, I  hope you still read this thread..

Yes, please!

[HetmanNG]

"Artistic vision" of Shepard's nightmares - copy from Liara Fans: keep your love blue and true!
In my opinnion this idea/vision is much better than what we have now.

Aristobulus500 wrote...

On the other hand, the dream
sequences were one of the worst parts of the game and really failed to
be meaningful at all. They were just a slog to get through so you could
see the rest of the game, and they weren't emotional or moving at all,
because you had no connection to the kid and he meant nothing to you.

It's not a coincidence that most people report the only part of the dreams that actually did disturb them was the voices of the crewmembers they had come to know and love, whispering to them.

To that end, I definitely say that Liara should've been included. First of all, the thing you must keep in mind is that this is a nightmare - it's supposed
to be disturbing, not just to Shepard, but to the player as well. the
player needs to be just as horrified and just as shocked as Shepard is,
and just as glad to wake up from it, not because he's ****ing bored by
the monotone but because it was really ****ing unpleasant and
disturbing.

So, now that I've set the tone, let me describe how
the dreams could've been done well - at least, I think so. First of all,
scrap the useless ****ing kid. Keep the whispers of the dead. Change
the location from a forest you don't recognize - have it be places
familiar to the player - the Citadel, Illium, etc. Except as you wander
around it, it's distorted in strange ways - it appears off. Discolored,
or just warped, or parts of it lead to where it shouldn't.

If you
want to keep Shepard chasing after a figure - change it up as the
dreams progress. The first dream, he's chasing the shadow of the one
killed on Vermire, before seeing them exploded by a bomb in front of his
face.

The second, it's Mordin. If Shepard let Mordin cure the
Genophage, Mordin just burns up in front of him like how the kid usually
does in the original game. If Shepard killed Mordin, however,
then Mordin is riddled with bullets and is just hurling accusations at
Shep and asking him "why?" before he burns up. If Mordin didn't make it
to ME3, I guess you can replace it with Padok Wiks.

The third and final nightmare? Go all out. This should be the most disturbing. It needs
to focus around the LI though. Here's the thing, in the original game,
the final nightmare has all the same flaws the other dreams do, except
it's even worse because it's just out of place and inappropriate -
Shepard goes from an emotional romance/sex scene with his lover, to that
nightmare, then back to reality with his LI. The LI has nothing to do
with them though, it just doesn't fit.

To stay with the theme, it
should. Not to mention Shep's LI is going to be one of the characters
most significant to Shep and the most powerful nightmare should regard
them. So, in this dream, Shep is...say, the Citadel. Maybe the council
chambers, or just some twisting halls of the wards. Doesn't really
matter - but throughout this dream, he should be chasing after his LI.
I'm gonna ruin with Liara for the sake of it, but the concept applies to
whoever the LI is. So, he sees Liara, and runs toward her, but as he
gets closer, Reaper forces appear and push her away.

Shepard
follows them, and you hear the sounds of Liara fighting with them. At
first it sounds like she's holding her own, but then things start to get
worse and it sounds like she's being overwhelmed. Shepard catches up
just in time to see her get taken down - but not killed - and a Banshee
is picking up her battered - but still conscious and awake - body.
Shepard gets blocked by a few cannibals or marauders or husks - basic
Reaper forces, as the Banshee carries Liara off.

While you fight
off these few forces, you hear Liara weakly protesting, perhaps
apologizing to Shepard, or telling him to leave while he still can.
After you defeat the the troops, Shepard catches up to the Banshee just
in time to see it impale Liara, and toss her aside. Shepard has to fight
the banshee, and because it's a dream, it's set to die easily so it's
not a hard fight or something. Shep runs over to Liara, and she's still
barely alive...but she's losing a ton of blood from various wounds,
especially the wound from the Banshee, and worst of all, she's turning
into a banshee. Her eyes are black, she looks up at Shepard, and pleads
with him to end it before she fully transforms and turns against him.

Then
Shepard wakes up, and looks over at Liara sleeping beside him -
perfectly fine. Now, isn't that more fitting, more powerful, more
moving, than the garbage we got? I think this would do a much better job
of showing off the horrors of the war Shep is involved in, too, and the
worst case scenarios the war could bring about, on Shepard and the
people he cares about, personally. I think this would actually be a
scene disturbing and moving to the player, too, not just Shepard.

In
fact that's exactly why I suggest it. I, personally, would not in the
slightest enjoy going through it. I would hate it, it would be painful. But that's the point. It's a nightmare. If I'm not disturbed, it's not doing its' job right.

Aside
from actually being a nightmare, this also has the benefit of being
coherent and consistent with the rest of the scenes - all 3 scenes would
be centered around his LI, instead of going from LI -> No LI
-> LI.

[Artemillion]

Good day )
First, I’d like to say, that my post is not about endings ) It is about thing that is much more important for me. It is more technical.
In Mass Effect 1, if you turned off music, it is still playing in cutscenes and in nightclubs, bars and etc. It was perfect! I know that some great composers creating a really nice music for the games, and I like to listen to this music, but not in game. I belong to such type of players who like a realistic approach to games. So, when you are on the mission, the background music is only distracting. ME was perfect in this sense, but sadly in ME 2 & 3, if one turns the music off, it will not appear even in bars and cutscenes. I know I’m not the only one who adheres to such style of gaming. So, PLEASE, if this is possible technically, release a patch which can fix this problem. I would not ask for this if it were not possible in original Mass Effect. I’m going to replay all 3 games before Extended Cut, and I really hope my request will be heard )

[MrGone]

Figure out a way to make the Collector Base and Rachni Queen decisions matter.

Here's my idea for the Rachni Queen. Even if you totally disagree, I think it informs you as to fact that the change should be NOTICABLE. A few war assets is meaningless.

Also agree with what someone said above me. An opening with a trial would be much improved. MUCH, much improved.

[billywaffles]

I first want to thank you for me3. For me it's an awesome game.

As for my feedback, I just want to tell that the only thing that really disappointed me was the Citadel parts. The Citadel was perfect in me1, very well connected. In me2 it was bad but at least was still connected and there wer more hubs to explore. In me3 I just don't get it how is everything connected by a single elevator... It looks so tiny.

I didn't mind at all how the quests were handled in the Citadel but in me1 and me2, with dialogue wheels, it was better.

As for the extended cut: I would like to see how my war assets wage war and affect cinematics in a way I would be satisfied. At least that would make a difference between people who cared for the whole journey (1,2&3) and people who just played me3 and got the best ending thanks to multiplayer.

[richard_rider]

Eclipse merc wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

thor_viking wrote...

For what it's worth this is a proposed endgame put together based on numerous great ideas from the forums. I believe this is much more satisfying, removes plot holes and makes your decisions matter a whole lot more without completely changing the last mission. Like I said this is based off ideas from other posters so I claim no credit.

To start we obviously need to see more of our war assets in action. During the fight through no-mans land there should be cutscenes depicting Asari commando's setting up biotic shields, krogan fighting rachni, geths working alongside quarians etc.

      

Please, for the love of god, this! BioWare, I  hope you still read this thread..

Yes, please!

This would pretty much be epic, hell, I might even play MP if I had a shot at something like this.

[Dnayew]

PLEASE for the EC DLC think Babylon 5 - Sleeping in the Light. The original was far too BSG for how amazing this series was. If we can give Shepard an emotional, dignified ride into the sunset (death is OK, ala Sleeping in the Light), I truly believe Mass Effect will transcend into the upper tier of the greatest stories ever told.

Honestly, even if Shepard simply died after Anderson, and we saw the Crucible destroy the reapers and an emotional flashback of everyone he knew and loved would have been a fitting end to such an epic hero.

Thank you Bioware for caring. I have spent the last several years in law school and have not had time to play many video games, but the videos games I have made time to play have almost exclusive been yours.

God Bless!

Modifié par Dnayew, 24 avril 2012 - 03:31 .

[giftfish]

Honestly, everything here has been said.  However, I  feel so strongly about certain changes that would improve the game, that I  want to reiterate them and show my support.

1. This >> http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/6/

2. PLEASE fill in the plot holes.  This is supposed to be the end.  Nothing should be subject to guesswork.

3. More synergy between our squadmates.  Grunt?  Samara?  Miranda? Jacob?  Anyone?  Everyone?   All Shephard's squadmates should be there in the final battle.  At the very least, there should be cutscenes in multiple places, inserted so we can see what they are doing.  This is the end moment.  If we needed all of them there for the Collectoers in ME2, then we sure as heck need them all there when teh Reapers come to destroy all intelligent organic life.  Getting mail from them saying "oh hi", or "oh bye" was a poor substitute.

4.Relationships, Romance, and Storylines.  This is the reason that we play ME, and not Crysis or BF3.  The story.  The role play.  This is also the reason that Shep is fighting the Reapers in the first place.  For life.  For happiness.  For relationships.  For love -- or the choice not to love.  This makes ANY ending worthwhile.  Even a good ending will feel "hollow" if it isn't supported by well-shaped storylines and supporting characters.

In ME3 it's clear that all relationships, romantic and non-romantic, take a huge backseat in the storyline.  When it comes to romantic relationships, most are horribly done. 

Take Thane for instance. 

One of Bioware's self-acclaimed "poster-characters" for ME2.  Easily, one of the best romances and best storylines in ME2.  FemShep rescues him from his own self-destructive behavior in ME2.  They become close, and can choose to become romantic.  In Arrival, we find out Thane can get an organ transplant to help/cure his Kepler's syndrome.  He also reveals that the hanar are working on a cure.  Why would he not elect to have the organ transplant and resign himself to die upon finding this new love in FemShep that has "awakened" in him?  It makes no sense. 

When they meet in the hospital in ME3 it's as if they barely know each other.  You'd never know about their history in ME2.  There's very little unique conversation between them in ME3, and none of it feels particularily "romantic".  There's a 5 second cutscence where they "grab" at each other", and on Thane's deathbed they don't even get a private moment together.  The prayer was beautiful, and if his death remains post-DLC, I  think it should be kept in -- but preceeded or anteceeded by a private moment for FemShep and Thane, with some beautiful dialogue options.  In addition, FemShep should be talking to Liara/Tali about losing Thane and the blow that deals to her.  Will she still feel strong enough to take on the Reapers?  No dream/retospectives on Thane while she prepares to fight them?  On the whole, it was just handled, horribly.

Interactions between Shep and his/her friends/lovers give him/her strength and reason to fight the Reapers, Bioware.  Let's give relationships meaning again, like they had in ME2.

5. Endings.  Where to begin.  There is no "happy" ending in the current scenario.  If Paragons want it, they should be able to have it.  Just as if Renegades want everything to go to hell, they should be able to have that.  I'm not saying there can't be hard choices, but if our choices are to determine the outcome, as they have so far, then Paragon Shep should be able to find a way to save the universe.  And, that's without destroying Mass Relays, which were proven in Arrival to destroy systems upon exploding, or mass-murdering the Geth who just became "friendly" and were fighting alongside Shepard to kill the Reapers.

6. Hallucination/Indoctrination/DLC.  This is just a general comment  pertaining to IF Bioware actually INTENDED the current "ending" to not really be the ending, and that the storyline was supposed to continue and develop into a "real" ending and release it as a DLC.  That make sense?  If so, I strongly disagree with this.  

A player/customer has the right to expect that the story will be "complete" when they purchase the game.  Period.  If the company wants to release additional content via DLC to EXPAND on the story and make more money, that is their right.

However, if this content also re-writes part of the story, due to poor player reception/artistic mistakes (and yes, writers can make mistakes) made in writing the story, that content, in my opinion should be free.  In this case, player should not have to pay for what they should have received in the first place. 

Bioware, you created characters and a story that millions (?) of us love.  Please help us to help give them the send-off that they deserve.

[Fuzzball_7]

Not sure how to voice my concerns/feedback to Bioware about the ending/Extended Cut DLC, so I’ll try this topic and hope they’re indeed reading it. I have to do something so I can put my mind at ease.



Bioware, you should first be congratulated for creating such an incredible trilogy of games that so many people love. The fact that this ending has caused such an outpour of opinion is a testament to the huge amount people care about the series and the characters in it. Well done to you.
 
Unfortunately, I like many other Mass Effect 3 players found the ending of the game to be quite unfulfilling. I personally didn’t have too many problems with the concept of the ending, but it felt very abrupt and ambiguous, leaving me with far more questions than answers.

I realise from what your staff said to the fans at PAX East that the whole ending won’t be completely changed, and I can sort of understand why you’re sticking with your original vision. However, I think it is very important that you carefully listen to the problems fans had with this ending, and try to come up with a solution that can please as many people as possible.

I’m assuming that the upcoming Extended Cut DLC will be expanding on the existing ending in an attempt to make things more acceptable for fans. So here are my thoughts on what I think needs to be improved. I don’t pretend to speak for anything more than myself, and I simply ask that you consider my thoughts along with everyone else’s.



1) Clarification on what happens to your final squad mates.
Picking just two characters to come with you on the final mission of the trilogy is an important decision, and I would want to know what happens to them at the end of the game just as much as what happens to Shepard. From what I can tell, that is never made clear. Your team mates’ icons appear at the bottom of the screen as you make the final sprint to the beacon/conduit, but I could never see them during that section. Once Shepard is severely injured, you have absolutely no idea what has happened to them. Did they live or did they die?
 
2) Fuller explanation of the final choice. (Especially “Synthesis”.)
The thing I personally found most frustrating about the final three options was that I wasn’t really sure what any of them would do. “Destroy” is pretty obvious, but does it actually destroy the technologies all of galactic society rely on or not? Why are the geth and EDI also destroyed? With the mass relays destroyed, is the galactic alliance you helped build doomed to have the species isolated and unable to survive in many cases? Why could The Illusive Man not use the “Control” option just because he was indoctrinated? I felt I just morally couldn’t pick “Synthesis” as I figured it would turn all organic and synthetic life in the galaxy into a mixed up primordial soup, but on watching that ending all it does is give Joker green eyes? And then your crew steps out the crashed Normandy looking the same as ever? Some extensive explaining is needed. It especially has to be explained why those are the only three options available to Shepard, as, as other fans have pointed out, the Catalyst’s logic seems to be faulty.
 
3) Explanation of why the Normandy is apparently flying away from the finl battle.
The only justification I can think of is that Joker is trying to outrun the blast to save EDI as she is, but how on earth would he know what Shepard has chosen to do, what that decision means and that he was even given any options to begin with? Why your team mates are on the ship and not on the battlefield of Earth is also unexplained.

4) Personalisation in the final battle.
Collecting war assets is a fun part of the game, and I think it’s a nice touch how in the War Room you can see how your decisions throughout the series have affected the worth of the different assets. However, in the final battle, there isn’t much indication of this personalisation. It would be nice to see old squad mates who survived ME2 and who you managed to get support from for the final conflict involved in the fighting in some way, even if it is in supportive roles (as you may have given them). Seeing other races that you managed to recruit (such as elcor or geth) fighting would also be a nice touch.
 
 
Those are the main points I can think of, but here some others I also hope you will think about. I realise they may be slightly outside the scope of the Extended Cut DLC, but please consider them!

1) Tali’s face!
I thought using a picture frame was an excellent way to reveal a long-standing mystery. However, what appeared to be a complete lack of effort put into what that face looked like really upset me! Using an actual photo doesn’t fit in with the rest of the images in the Mass Effect universe, as those are all graphically generated. Your staff at PAX East commented on this saying you use face models all the time to create characters in the final game, but they missed out on the fact that this actual photo being in the game itself isn’t the same. Plus, I didn’t think the manipulation of the image was at all convincing. One of Tali’s eyes is completely white, but the other still appears to have an iris and pupil. I also think the removal of two fingers didn’t work, as the final hand in the image didn’t seem to have the same proportions as Tali’s character model. The thumb, forefinger and middle finger were kept in and the last two edited out, but I think it would be more accurate if it was the thumb, forefinger and ring finger kept, with the others edited out.
            I really hope you will consider making an actual graphical representation of Tali’s face. It doesn’t have to be a fully functioning face model, just a still for that photo frame.

2) More involvement of Harbringer in the story.
This apparent leader of the Reapers is given quite a prominent role in ME2, and is several times referred to in ME3 as a significant threat. It’s even given its own codex entry to show its significance, yet it doesn’t really appear or do anything in the final battle. Some more story involvement with this intimidating enemy would be nice.
 
3) Clearer explanation of The Illusive Man’s involvement with the Reapers.
I admit this may be me missing something, but I don’t think The Illusive Man’s role at the end of the game is very well explained. How come these Reaper implants allow him to completely control Shepard and Anderson’s movements? (Nothing like that has been hinted at before.) What were the Reapers expecting to happen to him to stop him from controlling them as he wanted to? How the hell did he get onto the Citadel!? (His sudden acceptance and break from indoctrination in one ending also seems quite abrupt, but looking back this seems to be similar to Saren in ME1.)
 
 
So those are my thoughts. I hope you are carefully reading these topics and suggestions from fans, and that you consider mine along with everyone else’s. If anyone can do something to sort this all out and please people, it’s you, Bioware! Good luck!

[polor89]

1) keep it simple
2) cut the starchild(or minimize his role)
3)get the mood right
4)FOCUS ON THE CHARACTERS AND OUR LI

[Fuzzball_7]

Another thing I’ve just remembered that I hope is looked at, but perhaps is outside the scope of the Extended Cut DLC:

4) Continuing problems with importing Shepard’s facial appearance.
I was fortunate in that after the 1.02 patch my copy of ME3 that hadn’t been able to recognise my Shepard’s face at all was then able to import his face completely accurately. (Apart from the eyes being one shade too light. Weird.) But there are still plenty of people who are having problems importing their character accurately. This mostly seem to be for female Shepards, so perhaps in the DLC Bioware could add back in old facial options that aren’t importing into ME3 properly.

[My nick rules]

First of all, I must thank you for a fantastic game series overall. ME1 was fantastic. ME2 was one of the best games I've ever played, and ME3 was pure gold up until Earth. I cannot stress this enough: all of the three Mass Effect games are fantastic. I absolutely love the series, and that is also why I go through the trouble of writing this, with the hope that you go through the trouble of reading it, although I'm aware that it is awfully long.

So. Before the ending, there was very, very little to complain about. The only thing I can really think of is that the conversations felt slightly too streamlined. In the first game, Shepard pretty much didn't say a single sentance without me telling him to. Often, this would mean that the conversations felt choppy and weird, while multiple choices eventually lead Shepard to say the same thing anyway, so it was welcome that you streamlined that a bit in ME2. However, in ME3 I think you went a bit too far. In conversations, it feels more like your setting up a general direction for what Shepard will say, and not really being in control of him, which leads to Shepard often blurting out far too sentimental lines for my liking when I choose Paragon, without me being able to stop him or foresee it, and being a little too insensitive when choosing Renegade. You also pretty much removed the "neutral" choice from the earlier games (ME1 in particular). All of this making us (or at least me) feel more detached from my Shepard. I guess it's not that much of a problem really, but I thought that I'd point it out. Also, this is pretty much the only complaint I have about ME3 pre-Earth, which should say something.

So, to the real point. I, like many many others, was quite, or actually, very disappointed with the ending. My reasons for disliking the ending have already been stated by many, many others, but I want to do what I can too.

Let's take it from the beginning. Aside from Paragon Shepard being a bit too sentimental (and possibly religious?) for me while talking to the squadmates, even the Earth mission is fine, up until Harbinger's beam and Shepard entering the Citadel. First off: How did Captain Anderson arrive on the Citadel before Shepard? When he rises after Harbinger's attack, the radio chatter says that noone got aboard. They don't leave until after Shepard gets up, or at least starts to move, so they should've seen if Anderson reached the beam. Second: I never really understood how The Illusive Man was able to control Shepard, or why his implants (as I suppose it was) had started changing his appearance, though I might be willing to let that slide as me not paying enough attention or not thinking hard enough for myself. Also, I think the Illusive Man dies kind of anticlimactically (is that a word?), with no fight or anything leading up to it (and quite frankly, until I saw him, I'd pretty much forgotten that he was supposed to be there at all). You simply use charm or intimidate a couple of times and he blows his head of. However, I'm willing to let all of that slide, because my real problems with the ending don't start until Shepard is lifted up to the "roof" (or whatever you call it in space, the hull?) of the Citadel.

Now, my first real problem is the revelation of the Catalyst as being some sort of intelligence, apparently synthetic (because I'm overlooking the possibility that it is supernatural, fantasy belongs in Dragon Age), and naming it the creator and ruler of the Reapers. This, instead of explaining the Reapers' origin and motives, simply poses us with a new question. What is the Catalyst? Where does it come from? Who made it? How old is it? In other words, pretty much the same questions that we had about the Reapers. This goes against what you promised us before the release, that, I quote: "This will not be the kind of ending that leaves you with more questions than answers". Personally, I would have done fine without the Catalyst (or "God Child" that he is popularly referred to as), and would have preferred to have this "final conversation" with Harbinger (possibly after defeating him as a final boss), or, if you necessarily have to bring in the Catalyst, then at least answer the questions posed above.

Second, I find that the "choose how to end the game in the last minute"-concept is very disappointing, and far below Mass Effect standards. If I got to choose, I would've preferred to get the ending determined for me, based on the choices I've made throughout he game. Like in ME2, where the quality of the ending was determined by loyalty missions done, choosing the right squad member for the right mission and so on. In other words, depending on the amount of war assets you have, how much readiness rating you have, and also, since this is the conclusion, the choices that you have made throughout the games (I say games, because if nothing else, choices in earlier games affect missions in ME3, which in turn affects the outcome) you will get one of a variety of different endings. Of course, you might be able to choose some things in the end (Paragon and Renegade actions for example, the availability of which in turn would be affected by earlier events, like the Geth-Quarian peace on Rannoch, which I was unable to achieve because I failed to keep Tali alive throughout the suicide mission), but those choices should only be important at most, not game-deciding, and also be limited by earlier choices and events, so that you can not achieve the same ending by playing in a radically different way, which is what you can the way it looks today. Forcing everyone, no matter how they have chosen to play, into a very limited set of endings, decided in the last minute and which are the same for everyone is another thing that you promised not to do. Come on BioWare, it's not that much to ask, you've done it before.

Thirdly, I know you've heard this before, but not only is there a very limited set of endings, but the endings barely differ from each other. Aside from minor details in the cutscenes (such as whether EDI lives or not, who you see coming out of the ship, and, perhaps most notably, the color of the explosions, all the endings trigger pretty much the same final cutscene.

My fourth problem is all the plotholes. For example: Why is Joker escaping the battle? How did he know that something bad was coming? The Crucible fired so quickly I have a hard time seeing how anyone would have the time to react at all, much less also be able to leave the battle, reach the Mass Relay, and go through at least one of them before the red/blue/green sphere of destruction caught them? This seems to be backed by the Reapers not having any time to escape, although they are supposed to be faster than any organic ship. And why would Joker be running in the first place? As far as I understand, he simply waits for the Crucible to fire, and would have thought that it was their trumph card, and not something to be feared. And I don't see why the Normandy would be destroyed by the Crucible anyway. Also, we see that the squad members who were with us on Earth are on the Normandy when it crashes. I really don't see why Joker would waste time picking them up when they are already on the place that they are supposed to be: Earth. I mean: realising that the Crucible is for no apparent reason going to destroy the Normandy, rushing to Earth to pick everyone (or at least they who were with Shepard) up, and then going for the Mass Relay. I mean, come on, Really? And what with everyone who is stranded when the Mass Relays are destroyed? Are the whole victory flotilla stranded on Earth? Wrex never gets home to Tuchanka? All the turians and quarians who can't even eat Earth-food? They just die? I mean, that doesn't look like winning to me. All in all, there are far too many plot holes to be acceptable. There are probably a lot more which I have simply forgotten to mention, or perhaps not noticed yet.

My fifth problem is the lack of choice. Why is there only three bad endings (which ultimately turn out to be pretty much the same bad ending), and no alternatives? Why does Shepard just succumb to the Crucible and accept his fate? Especially Renegade Shepard would never do that. What if I want to be able to tell the Catalyst to go screw himself, and not choose at all, and just watch everyone give the Reapers everything they've got? Or try to reason with it? In the final moment, Commander Shepard, who's time after time succeeded in the face of impossible odds, just lies down and accepts? I don't think so. And why is there no happy ending? When I've cleared a game, and especially a game series as long and as totally freaking awesome as Mass Effect, I want to be able to feel that I've achieved something. Instead, I'm forced into a decision between three bads, which are all pretty much the same, no matter how good I was earlier. I went into the final battle with 6000+ war assets and 100 % readiness. And all I got was a very very short scene of Shepard drawing his breath (which also seems to be another plothole, since I don't see how the amount of war assets would change Shepard's chances of surviving what is advertised by the Catalyst as a sure death), which, I will admit is one of the few ups of the ending. However, all of the downs make this feel not very meaningful.

Lastly, I don't like the apparent laziness with which the ending is executed. For example: we don't get to see much of the fighting. I would want to see a grand scene where all your allies and war assets do their part in ultimately defeating the Reapers. Perhaps the Crucible would weaken the Reapers enough for them to be able to be taken down by the fleet or something in that direction. I want to see that all my efforts meant something. Ideally, they would make the final mission easier and/or prevent casualties on your side (both squad members and others). I can see a million ways this could be done effectfully in a couple of great cutscenes. Likewise, it doesn't feel like we get a final mission, some kind of "this is it". I expected yet more fighting on the Citadel, and didn't quite understand that holding out waiting for EDI to calibrate the missiles was the "final fight". At least, I would have expected a boss fight in the end, preferably against Harbinger, who I think gets way too little attention. Regarding that you had boss fights in both the previous games (Saren controlled by Sovereign in ME1, the human Reaper in ME2) I was surprised, and a little dissappointed to see that there was none in ME3. This would mark that you had made it through the game, and in my ideal ending, this would also have marked the end of the game, and pretty much all decisions would've been done already by the time of the boss fight, although I could see a scenario where some kind of final decision (though, as stated, not a game-decider the way it is now) could be made after the fight. Anyway, I think that the ending could've been a lot "fleshier", which is something that I hope will be fixed to some extent at least by the "Extended Cut"-DLC.

That pretty much concludes my message. I hope that you working at BioWare actually read through it, and I apologize for it being so terribly long, but I had a lot of things to say. I understand of course that you feel that it's too late to change the ending drastically, even if you would've wanted to, but I still hope that you might change your minds about that and release, if not an entirely new ending, then at least one that is more satisfying in terms of closure as well as being more "tailored" after our choices and our Shepards, and hopefully features more optional endings that differ to a greater degree, and that the plotholes are straightened out. One letter's hardly enough, but I'm not the only one thinking this way, which you have surely noticed, and in the end, the fans come first, right? This thread, and the release of Extended Cut prooves that you are at least listening, and trying to do something about it, and for that I am happy, but I wish that you in the future decide to do even more, or at least take this under advice and bear it in mind when creating your next game. Also, sorry for any type-o:s (I've been writing this continuously for more than two hours, so my brain's getting a bit moist, and I frankly don't have the energy to re-read and correct myself) and any grammatical errors, since I don't speak English as a native language.

Thank you so much for three amazing games. Cheers from Sweden.

Edit: Okay, just watched the video on Indoctrination Theory. And if it's correct (which I am utterly convinced that it is), I retract everything I've said. If it is like the theory states, then you are geniuses, and don't require the feedback from idiots like me. Carry on doing what you do best, and I will look forward to playing the Extended Cut. I can't wait. Until then, if IT is correct, then you've made the greatest game ending ever, and I'm the fool for not figuring it out by myself. As stated; Love the series, keep rocking.

Modifié par My nick rules, 25 avril 2012 - 08:08 .

[BattleVisor]

I would love it, if the indoctrination theory was correct. Also more conventional fighting, the crucible playing a part, but not so much deux ex machina, but merely a superweapon that helps turn the tides. More cinematics with war assets, geth ships/elcor ground troops/ mercenaries/ vorcha/ mechs/ more tanks involved (hammer heads and makos), geth primes, krogans, biotics etc

[WarBeagle01]

I still can't understand how anyone for the ending can throw the "you just want a happy ending" line. Let's look at my playthrough up to the Catalyst. Ashley died on Virmire. Thousands dead in the Citadel attack in ME1. Watching what Tali went through regarding her father in ME2. The experiment of the Overload DLC. The destruction from the Arrival DLC (HUNDREDS of thousands of Batarians snuffed out). Hundreds of thousands of humans harvested in ME2. Side mission consequences - Finding out what Jack went through, Jacob saying adios to his dad, Samara killing a daughter, etc.

Move to ME3. Millions dead on Earth, Palaven and Thessia. Cerberus taking biotic kids against their will and doing God knows what to them. Humans (Cerberus) killing other humans. Watching Mordin sacrifice his life for an entire race. Thane killed. Legion (one of the deeper characters in the whole ME series, IMO) - "dead". Humans being experimented on via Sanctuary. I'm sure I failed to mention several things from ME1 to ME3.

So I'd like to see fewer plotholes. If the Catalyst interaction was much deeper than it was, maybe I can swallow it. But it was shallow and stale.

If Bioware isn't about useless side missions, then what the frack was the whole premise of the "war assets"?? I've yet to hear one meaningful explanation on that one. So yes I'd like to see that too. I'd like to see how things played out with the many characters that, through Bioware's OWN games, I have built relationships with. The LI - yeah if I wanted to see about that as well. Big Deal.

Let's say all that happens - how in the blue hell can you still call it a "happy ending"? Read my first two paragraphs. Was the end of WW2 a "happy ending"? Really? Yes the war was over and the atrocities stopped, but did nothing to bring back the 20-30 million dead, concentration camps, etc. The folks out there who claim that we aren't looking at the "big picture" but then rag on "happy endings",need to take their own advice. There is NO happy ending no matter how things play out. The mental scars carried by Shepherd will live/haunt him until the day he/she dies. The same for the others and all lifeforms (organic and synthetic)  throughout the galaxy. Maybe some here are demanding a superficial "happy ending", but I think many of us would like closure, but realize things will be far from happy for decades to come in the galaxy. 

Modifié par WarBeagle01, 25 avril 2012 - 01:58 .

[Soulfire72]

Mass Effect 3's ending disappointed me in many ways. The lack of choice didn't actually bother me as much as it should, since I always try what's best for the entire galaxy. The problem is, all three endings do not give you insight into what actually happens to the galaxy. During my last playthrough of all three games, I took every effort to read every codex entry, enter all conversations and complete as much of all the games as possible. This turned out to be a mistake, given my emotional investment, as all ending choices are made worse if you actually know a lot about the Mass Effect Universe. Because I played Arrival, I believed that Shepard had destroyed the entire galaxy on the whims of a character I care nothing about and actually quite creeped out about.
Another thing is about Earth's overwhelming importance to the rest of the galaxy. I actually care about all alien worlds, races, civilisations, societys... just as much or more than humanity's. Why? Because they are different, they are interesting. It's a moot point that I saved Earth if I had to destroy the rest of the galaxy to do so. I wanted to know if I saved Thessia, Rannoch, Tuchanka, Palaven, all the alien homeworlds and beyond... and as far as I know, they're all gone.
The only way I can stay sane thinking about this is telling myself that the galaxy is intact, that the mass relays somehow didn't destroy everything, and that the races will find some way to return home. But I shouldn't have to tell myself that. It should be told, or shown, that Shepard indeed, saved the galaxy.
It's like Samara said, 'If you're compelled to harsh action, you learn the dangers of curiosity.' In this case, you have to destroy the galaxy, for a goal I don't even understand. Why then, were you given the countless opportunities to learn about the whole galaxy, all races, societys, planets... if you have to watch it go up in mass effect explosions? In a similar way, I don't understand why they showed some clip of Shepard taking a breath when it clearly doesn't matter that you survived or not... everything is gone. If Shepard did survive, he/she would soon want to die after learning what happened to the galaxy they had fought so hard to save.
'Submission is preferable to extinction.' This is is exactly what we've fought against for so long. And yet, in the end, that is what Shepard is - submissive. The Destroy ending is the least submissive, but Shepard does not object to the Catalyst's solutions, not to mention you commit genocide of the geth as a result. The two worst galactic crimes, destroying planets and genocide, are both commmitted at the end by Shepard, whether Shepard is paragon or renegade, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it.
Another consequence of this ending is the value of emotional investment. This is with every story based game, to a certain degree. The ending punishes those with emotional investment. This has far reaching consequences to the entire story based game industry, more so to BioWare and EA, but other gaming companies will also suffer as a result. If EA and BioWare can punish emotional investment whenever they see fit, and face no consequences or not do anything to remedy their mistake, then all gaming companies in story based games will gain the capacity to do so. This will make consumers more reluctant to emotionally invest in a story based game, decreasing the game's value. Not to mention this makes no sense financially either, as consumers are the main source of income.
Basically:
Give closure on as many characters, races, planets, societies, etc. as possible.
Keep the central themes to the entire franchise intact.
Don't twist the ending as a way out.
Peer review your endings, before releasing the game.

[AGoodGeek]

To Bioware and Bioware Social Network Community Members

The following is primarily a suggestion applying to the "Destroy" ending but some parts can apply to the other endings.

Personally I would like to know the status of all my squad mates after the Normandy's crash landing, even the ones from ME2. What happened? Who made it back to the Normandy with Joker and how did they get to the Normandy? Who was left on Earth to watch the Reapers die? In my ending the only confirmed survivors from the crash are my romance partner Ashley, Joker, and Vega. I have absolutely no idea what happened to everyone else.

I know I'm not the only one that wants this but PLEASE Bioware, let Shepard be re-united with his squad mates. That would be the ultimate ending that adds closure, to be re-united with the Normandy crew and to have final conversations with them to celebrate victory over the Reapers (if we picked the Destroy option). The conversations should reflect the decisions made regarding the Crucible of course.

That would not be changing the ending in my opinion since it's shown at the end that Shepard is alive. To me, that's a huge suggestion that Shepard and his crew will be/can be reunited once again. The question is how long will it be before the reunion and how exactly will they be reunited since the relays are destroyed?

In all honesty, I'm okay with the ending, but not the way it is now. This is supposed to be THE epic conclusion to an epic trilogy. Fans should be able to walk away with complete satisfaction based upon their decisions. My choices in ME2 had the most visible results out of any Mass Effect game. I'm referring to ship upgrades leading to more survivors as well as completed loyalty missions leading to more survivors. The visibility in ME3 isn't comparable. And in my opinion, and I'm sure that I'm not alone, an extended sequence showing Shepard reunited with his crew and romance partner WILL BE accepted and APPRECIATED.

For now, that's all I've got for suggestions. A reunion between Shepard and the Normandy Crew including your Romance partner in addition to scenes that give the status of all other major characters.

I apologize if any of this fails to appear organized, I just beat the game and quite honestly emotions are still coming in.

To Bioware, I do want to say "Thank You." To me the Mass Effect series is a beloved favorite. My favorite RPGs of all time are all your creations. (KOTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age) Despite all this ending controversy and even the face import issue of which I was a victim, I still feel the need to say thank you for all you've done and hopefully will continue to do.

[cindercatz]

MrGone wrote...

Figure out a way to make the Collector Base and Rachni Queen decisions matter.

Here's my idea for the Rachni Queen. Even if you totally disagree, I think it informs you as to fact that the change should be NOTICABLE. A few war assets is meaningless.

Also agree with what someone said above me. An opening with a trial would be much improved. MUCH, much improved.

Just wanted to say this is a great idea for a dlc mission, left my little comments about it in the thread. I support it also. :-)

[your-friendly-noggin]

I only have 2 non ending related suggestions, I can just about deal with the dream sequences because the voices of my fallen comrades makes me well up every time, sure the kid is creepy rather than sad but that's nothing compared to these two points.

• Hilary, the girl who the PTSD commando in the hospital had to kill to keep quiet, she also happens to be Jokers sister! Why in the world after overhearing this does shepard not tell joker when he mentions tiptree, i felt like the crappiest friend in the world leaving him with false hope like that, he deserves to know. 
  
• Quarians, or at least Tali, should have faces, some of us have worked through all three games with a goal of getting the Quarians back onto their planet, i even managed to get them work Geth. It was a fantastic moment when Tali looks over her homeworld and takes of her mask...then it moves on to the next scene. It would be a PERFECT moment if we saw Tali from the front take of her mask for the first time(if you are a femshep or just didn't romance her in ME2) and breath in the air around her, signifying their amazing accomplishment as a player returning freedom to the Quarian people, who no longer have to live in suits. 
  It might even be good to see her smile as she does so, her only emotion so far has been portrayed through voice, to be able to see her smiling would be fantastic.
  However right now femsheps never even see the romance photo and i'm damn sure the tali fan mansheps were dissapointed by it anyway, don't get me wrong i looked it up online and i like the design (stock photo controversy aside), it fits with tali, but it really should have been in game.

Now to the ending of course, i could have dealt with the ending if it actually made sense within your shepards way of thinking, i was a paragon all the way through so i'm going to talk about the paragon options. First though let me air my feelings about the reapers, they disgust me, sure they are under control of someone else but they still represent entire mutilated species, they are monuments of pain and suffering throughout time and space. So with that out of the way on to the paragon choices:

• Control, this one should be the least viable option for a paragon as you take control of a terrible power and the reapers, the ones that are the combined corpses of trillions of beings remain. But this one has been hinted at to be the most peaceful option, where the relays are just disabled not destroyed and the citadel still exists. Why is it the control ending is the only one with this result? If you could broadcast that signal without destroying them completely then why not do the same for the other endings depending on your choices and EMS?
  
• Destroy, this one is almost the ending i as a paragon wanted, i get to live and the reapers are destroyed, ending the pain and suffering of the galaxy and those who were made into the reapers. But still the relays are destroyed, leaving billions stranded in the sol system, including two fleets which can't eat human food, why don't they get to return home?
  Even if they tried to fly to their systems they would likely run out of supplies or at least die and be replaced by a younger generation before they even got close, especially the Quarians who are so far from home.
  
  Worse then all of that as a pure paragon playthrough in my game legion gave the geth proper freedom as individuals and allowed them to make peace with the Quarians, on top of that EDI and Joker began a relationship and i helped EDI work out what it means to be alive. The destroy ending takes all that away, it kills all synthetics, but why? My shepard spent three games trying to destroy the reapers, not the geth, not EDI, the reapers, it was a slap in the face where the only option in which you get to live you also have to kill your friends. Depending on your actions and EMS the destroy ending should start at this point, but the better you did the better it becomes, where at the apex of a perfect game you should be able to destroy the reapers and the reapers alone.
  
• Synthesis, this one is a mess for a paragon, on one hand it allows everyone to live, but on the otherhand it gives freedom to the reapers who would then have to deal with the fact that not only have they been slaves for trillions of years but that they are made up of trillions of corpses. That is no freedom, that is only torture, the only reason i chose it was because it was the lesser of two evils between enslaving the reapers and giving them freedom. Once again, it also destroys the relays, leaving the fleets in the same situation as the destroy ending. I'm unsure how synthesis could be changed as i feel it was way to morally messed up to make sense.

That left me baffled as a pure paragon, i wanted everyone to live and the reapers to finally be put to rest, i wanted to go back to my LI and at least die by her side. But the choices i was given gave me bits of that all separated out, the choices themselves should be refined by your choices throughout the series as they always should have been. 

To put it simply the better you did at collecting assets and the more successful your actions, be  them paragon or renegade should allow to save the relays, at least focus in that destroy beam on the reapers alone and most of all the perfect playthroughs for renegade and paragon should allow shepard to survive even if they end up in a wheelchair, shepard deserves to see the victory and rest easy.



Oh yeah and joker should not be running away with your squad, they should come and pick your unconcious (or dead depending on how well you did) body from the citadel.

[your-friendly-noggin]

Hmm something odd happened to my post, but whenever i try and edit it the lists vanish all together, basically i stop talking about synthesis when i say "That left me baffled as a pure paragon" that's meant to be a new paragraph. Same with "Now to the ending of course".

[Gogzilla]

Dialogue options and dialogue wheels are why i play Bioware games.

I really really really did not appreciate their direction in ME3 with regards to the dialogue wheel.
It was really stripped down in comparison to previous games.

The less Dialogue options they put in the game the less i will like it,
I can forgive almost anything(DA2) as long as their are good dialogue options.
Its the reason why i play Bioware games.

ME3 was a step backwards from DA2 and even ME2 .

So much was said without player input in ME3 i hated the first 2 hours of the game,
I felt so frustrated that there was sol little choice in what could be said

When lines were spoken in DA2 without player input it was often based on what kind of options the player was picking prior.

Seriously , don't skimp on the dialogue.
Its the reason i like to play Bioware titles.

[Jianni]

When I finished the game I came at it cold, no spoilers etc. I had no idea at all what the consequences of my choice would be, arbitrary and confusing. It felt like that no matter what I did my Paragon hero Shep who had never willingly sacrificed anyone and agonized over those he had lost was left with nothing but bitterness and loss. As a paragon I feel like I didn't win this game. With the synth ending I am not even sure that the Reapers stopped killing people as they are now free to decide what to do on their own. The Reapers must be stopped, but the only way to ensure the safety of the Galaxy is to outright murder an entire species who are my allies? Even if he did survive, I don't think paragon shep would ever recover from that decision.

All I want from the end of this game is to feel some form of victory (for each ending, not just destroy) with all the loss and sadness and to understand the consequences of my actions BEFORE I make the single most important decision that will ever be made.

Modifié par Jianni, 25 avril 2012 - 02:19 .