7052 réponses à ce sujet

[riesenwiesel]

Maybe just a little thing, but:
Ever since I saw the destiny ascension for the first time in ME1, I wanted to see an asari dreadnought beat/shoot the **** out of something (sorry for the word choice).
I missed this in the battle for the citadel in ME1 and missed it as a revenge for thessia in the battle for earth in ME3.

Modifié par riesenwiesel, 25 avril 2012 - 02:47 .

[DiegoProgMetal]

Will paste here something me and some other forumites wrote on another thread.

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Seryl wrote...

snip...

I have a question for anybody that'd care to answer. If ME3 ended with no final choice, would anybody have been disappointed? That is, if you could only destroy the Reapers, would that have been acceptable? In this scenario, the Crucible firing would remove the Reaper shields, then your ending would hinge on how high, or low, your EMS was.

The reason I ask is that the more I think about the ending, the more I think that the end choices were shoehorned in simply to give the illusion of choice to the player. If Shepard has spent the past five years working toward destroying the Reapers, starchild or no, it seems bizarre that he'd suddenly choose an option that didn't kill them.

*sigh* Just the way I had hoped it would end....a straightforward ending with the reapers destroyed, and your choices shaping the end-sequences and consequences...

...snip...

There is no need at all for the Starchild-scenes and those red/blue/green-choices. none at all. Stop the game after the final confrontation with TIM, see Anderson die, activate the crucible...and hope your EMS is high enough that most of your allies and Earth survive and a team can even pick up Shepard for the ultimate happy ending...

...snip...

Exactly as I would like it to end. Instead of shooting a tube, just push the button. The Crucible, instead of making all that space magic, takes the shields/barriers of the Reapers off. We know from ME1 that a Reaper without its shield takes just a couple shots before it is destroyed, even before the Thanix Cannons. The best case scenario for the Reapers would be that they got just as powerful as any other dreadnought. Then the EMS would get into the game. The higher the EMS, the lesser the casualties. Simple, and allows for a great variety of endings.

[AGoodGeek]

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Will paste here something me and some other forumites wrote on another thread.

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Seryl wrote...

snip...

I have a question for anybody that'd care to answer. If ME3 ended with no final choice, would anybody have been disappointed? That is, if you could only destroy the Reapers, would that have been acceptable? In this scenario, the Crucible firing would remove the Reaper shields, then your ending would hinge on how high, or low, your EMS was.

The reason I ask is that the more I think about the ending, the more I think that the end choices were shoehorned in simply to give the illusion of choice to the player. If Shepard has spent the past five years working toward destroying the Reapers, starchild or no, it seems bizarre that he'd suddenly choose an option that didn't kill them.

*sigh* Just the way I had hoped it would end....a straightforward ending with the reapers destroyed, and your choices shaping the end-sequences and consequences...

...snip...

There is no need at all for the Starchild-scenes and those red/blue/green-choices. none at all. Stop the game after the final confrontation with TIM, see Anderson die, activate the crucible...and hope your EMS is high enough that most of your allies and Earth survive and a team can even pick up Shepard for the ultimate happy ending...

...snip...

Exactly as I would like it to end. Instead of shooting a tube, just push the button. The Crucible, instead of making all that space magic, takes the shields/barriers of the Reapers off. We know from ME1 that a Reaper without its shield takes just a couple shots before it is destroyed, even before the Thanix Cannons. The best case scenario for the Reapers would be that they got just as powerful as any other dreadnought. Then the EMS would get into the game. The higher the EMS, the lesser the casualties. Simple, and allows for a great variety of endings.

I totally love this idea!!
Let the Crucible weaken the Reapers and depending on your EMS, you can annihilate them, just barely survive, or if EMS was too low then completely lose the battle to the Reapers.  A lack of preparation allowed and ending in ME2 where Shep and crew all die so it's completely feasible to have something like that in the final battle.  You can be fully prepared to take the Reapers out with a high EMS, somewhat prepared to take them out, or not prepared at all and everyone dies, completing yet another cycle.  Varying levels of EMS will determine the multiple endings such as which race/fleet is still standing in the end.

Anyone else agree with this?

[Ostro Bothnia]

There's alot to read here, so I'll keep it simple.

You should mostly go with the indoctrination theory. It works.
And lose the starchild. Or make it an option. Otherwise we need to talk to Harbinger. Nobody likes it when a child bounces Shepard.

That's the short version. See here for long version:
http://retakemasseff...splay&thread=22

[-IT-]

MRadway wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

thor_viking wrote...

For what it's worth this is a proposed endgame put together based on numerous great ideas from the forums. I believe this is much more satisfying, removes plot holes and makes your decisions matter a whole lot more without completely changing the last mission. Like I said this is based off ideas from other posters so I claim no credit.

To start we obviously need to see more of our war assets in action. During the fight through no-mans land there should be cutscenes depicting Asari commando's setting up biotic shields, krogan fighting rachni, geths working alongside quarians etc.

Once we reach the beam and Harbinger arrives this is where the new ending would come into play.

1)  Shepard's team charges towards the beam but they are blasted by Harbinger.
2)  Anderson picks up a shellshocked Shepard and they continue towards the beam.
3)  The two squad mates are already there and hold off Reaper forces whilst Shepard and Anderson enter the Citadel.
4)  Inside they find Illusive Man who is attempting to control the Reapers.
5)  TIM uses his new powers to make Shepard wound Anderson.
 
 a) If collector base saved:         TIM is too strong and Shepard is made to finish off Anderson.
                                                   Shepard forced to watch as TIM attempts to control the Reapers.
                                                   It fails and he dies, breaking the hold over Shepard.
  If collector base destroyed:   Shepard resists TIM and spares Anderson.
                                                   A wounded Anderson shoots TIM in the side, breaking the hold over Shepard.
                                                   Shepard can shoot TIM or talk him into suicide.
                                                   Shepard and Anderson share their final conversation.

6)  Shepard opens the Citadel and Hackett docks the crucible.
7)  Harbinger takes over TIM's corpse and tries to convince Shepard that resistance is futile.
8)  Shepard must fight off an indoctrination attempt in his dream (by shooting the kid? mwahaha)
9)  Shepard resists and at this point can learn the reason why the Reapers are attacking.
     (Or not if the mystery works better.)
 
 a) Harbinger explains that as organic life grows so do the levels of dark energy. These energy levels are causing the
     galaxy to die as evidenced by the sun on Haestrum. The Reapers cull organic life to keep the energy levels safe
     and preserve the harvested genetic material within themselves. By resisting the Reapers Shepard is actually
     dooming the entire galaxy.
  New game plus mode would reveal the real reason. The Reapers are the ones causing the rise in dark energy.
     They have been trying to solve the problem by harvesting organics and using the genetic material to adapt their
     own evolution. The only way to stop dark energy levels rising is to destroy the Reapers.  

10) The Normandy has landed at the base of the Citadel beam and is dropping off the rest of the squad as
       reinforcements.
11) Harbinger offers to spare Shepard's squad and Earth until the next cycle if they give up now.  

  a) Shepard agrees so the Reapers leave Earth and harvest the rest of the galaxy before heading back to dark 
      space. The End.
 
  Shepard refuses so Harbinger attacks the Normandy. Squad mates could die based on previous choices.

12) Shepard prepares the Crucible to fire which will destroy all Reaper technology.
13) Harbinger leaves Earth and heads towards the Citadel. The allied fleet attempts to hold him off.

  a) 25% EMS:   Fleet fails to slow down Harbinger who reaches the Crucible and destroys it. The entire galaxy falls to
                          the Reapers. The End.
  50% EMS:   Fleet struggles to hold off Harbinger. Hackett is forced to activate the Crucible early in an unsafe
                          state. The blast kills the Reapers but also Hackett, Shepard and badly damages Earth. The End.
  c) 75% EMS:   Fleet holds off Harbinger long enough for the Crucible to charge completely. Someone must stay
                          behind to ensure it goes off safely. Hackett or Shepard can decide to sacrifice themselves. Crucible
                          detonates correctly and kills the Reapers. The End.
  d) 100% EMS: Fleet holds Harbinger at bay. Crucible charges completely and countdown begins allowing Shepard
                          and Hackett to evacuate. Crucible detonates safely and kills the Reapers. The End.

14) Epilogue scenes which reflect the choices you made.

There could be an explanation that once the Geth/Quarian alliance is formed the Geth introduced a safeguard into the Crucible design that means they aren't affected by the blast. The Protheans could also have altered the Crucible based on the research at Ilos to only use the Mass Relays as a delivery system and not have them destroyed in the process.

No star-child, no faulty logic, decisions taken into account, varied endings, Harbinger and EMS playing a bigger role.    
      

Please, for the love of god, this! BioWare, I  hope you still read this thread..

Yes! This is so cool and allows for different playthroughs, I love it. Leaps and bounds better than what we got.

This!

[NetAndy]

TempShark wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Seryl wrote...
...

I totally love this idea!!
Let the Crucible weaken the Reapers and depending on your EMS, you can annihilate them, just barely survive, or if EMS was too low then completely lose the battle to the Reapers.  A lack of preparation allowed and ending in ME2 where Shep and crew all die so it's completely feasible to have something like that in the final battle.  You can be fully prepared to take the Reapers out with a high EMS, somewhat prepared to take them out, or not prepared at all and everyone dies, completing yet another cycle.  Varying levels of EMS will determine the multiple endings such as which race/fleet is still standing in the end.

Anyone else agree with this?

I agree. I like the style of suicide mission in ME2 and I expected something similar in ME3. I do not like control ending nor synergy, they are against everything and only indoctrinated supports them. Destroying synthetics is also non sense. Crucible should weaken (or shutdown) Reapers. And depending on your choices and EMS you should get everything from "everything is lost scenario" (Shepard and Crew dies, Earth is destroyed and the cycle continues) to "everybody lives" (Shepard is saved by his crew, everybody survived, Earth is still habitable and flotilla destroys all Reapers).

Modifié par NetAndy, 25 avril 2012 - 08:14 .

[jakenou]

I had some (ok, tons of) expectations for ME3, some of which were molded by my perceptions that were built through pouring over any news or press release about the game before its release. Of course many of my expectations were also born from playing the first two games extensively since ME1 first came out.

I fell in love with ME1 because of the immensity of the game - rich characters, dialogues, tons of loot, tons of inventory, tons of things to discover. It's a classic RPG dream-game. Some may say it got tedious at times, but many also love the massive sandbox we got to play in. When ME2 came out, as beautiful and streamlined as it was compared to ME1, the sandbox seemed to have gotten smaller and I really found myself missing that freedom and variety, even though it still had a good amount of things to do, see, discover and shoot at. I just felt like there was less input required from the player which therefore caused me to feel a little more detached and a little less part of the creative process.

My list of criticisms isn't very long, but I feel like there are some big issues that have put a hindrance on my ability to really become absorbed into the game.

1 - When ME3 came out, we got off to a bad start when my primary Shepard's face didn't import. I shrugged it off though, and used a code I had from another Shepard that looked pretty good in ME3's updated graphics. None of the custom Shepards I've seen seem to look quite right - there's a missing spark in all the faces that seemed so alive particularly in ME2. A fair amount of people still can't recognize their custom Shepards. I somehow convinced myself it was the same person. But the graphics are otherwise rather spectacular, especially in the cinematics... of which there is a plenitude...

2 - As pretty as all the cut scene/cinematics are, there are so many of them, and they are so lengthy that I feel like my presence within the game barely matters except to pick an occasional dialogue choice or to shoot my way through a barrage of enemies which will verily lead to the same outcome no matter what method I use. It really brings me out of the participation. Take out the interactive game-play bits from ME3 and you will find yourself with a superb feature length CG animated movie.

3 - Add to the length and quantity of cinematics the fact that the game has become even more streamlined than ME2 to the point of becoming almost completely linear, when compared to ME1 for sure. In ME1 you could wander around almost endlessly, and sometimes aimlessly, on the Citadel, planets and around the galaxy. In ME3 I feel like I'm being corralled into the direction I need to go, with very little possible deviation, which again makes me feel rather unnecessary to the game except to use controls to keep it moving forward. ME3 has evolved into a completely different kind of game than ME1 - from an open world action RPG to a simplified action shooter.

4 - With all of the news before the release of ME3, I was left with the impression that many of the countless hours and decisions I had made in ME1, then in ME2, would build up to a crescendo of rather unique experiences for my individual Shepard in ME3 and that would give me a very refined and tailored ending. I distinctly remember something being taunted about there being a smattering of different endings that would be determined by the choices made along the way.
- 4a - What I found was that it didn't really matter all that much about how I played everything up until the final scenes. With a minimal amount of accrued war assets from within ME3, I am given the same three choices every other player is given. If I didn't have the minimal amount of war assets then I would have only one or two of those same choices (but it doesn't seem likely that I could have made it to the end without gaining the minimal war assets, since you by default gain assets via the missions completed that allow you to move forward).
- 4b - Like a good RPGer, I like to surf the fan community to find out what nooks and crannies there are in the game that I can look a little deeper and play a little more to find, to see what more I can get out of the game. To my surprise, I found there is a special caveat to the ending that almost completely turns the ending upside down. Come to find out, I can not unlock this gold nugget hidden within the game because I don't own a device that runs on a current iOS, nor do I play multiplayer. This was of course realized after much rabid debate within the community, and by individuals with far better math skills than I.

So, to sum up, I felt as though I got off on a bad foot with ME3, and also ended on a bad foot. For the whole middle of the game I was kind of straddling on two left feet, but it didn't seem to matter much to the outcome, and there was relatively little interaction required by me anyway. I was well guided through the narrow hallways leading to the end game (although when I tried to deviate with what little wiggle room there was, I found myself being quite a proficient eavesdropper).

I'm certainly a bit steamed that the added multiplayer component (which is so far away from what the Mass Effect I've grown to love so much ever was) seems to be a requirement to reap all of the benefits in the core single player game. Indeed, a rude awakening as to what Mass Effect has become. And not to sound so nitpicky, but at least two achievements are unattainable without multiplayer? Really? That just hurts. Plain and simple. I feel like I've been crawling my way toward this elusive Crucible for years and years, getting battered and torn along the way, and when I finally reach it I'm assaulted with salt bombs that sear into my open wounds. Okay, I know that sounds dramatic, but Mass Effect has inspired that kind of passion for so many of us since the beginning.

[jakenou]

I'd also like to know where my space hamster went.

[Bowie Hawkins]

The hamster is running around the area where Jack stayed in ME2. May take a few tries to catch him, but now you know where to look.

[MarcusFrost88]

A well thought-out piece regarding the ME3 ending's abandonment of player choice and the central theme.

Mass Effect 3 Ending: Choices and Theme

[Sistaroth]

Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut and Ending Constructive Criticism and Feedback

Dear Bioware,

I am a massive fan of your work and strongly admire your skill with compelling story writing and the creation of weaving intricate characters into your story and games. You have done an amazing job at getting the Mass Effect Players emotionally involved in the trilogy over five long years, but have given them an entirely empty ending filled with plot holes, inaccuracies and space magic - nothing is further away from Mass Effect than this ending, considering that you have well managed to give other beloved characters (Grunt, Mordin, Thane, Legion, etc.) potentially good endings and have created such an amazing story and universe. Previous significant and less significant choices simply do not have any impact on the end - the ending essentially only differs in colour of explosion from the Crucible, which is very much unlike the great feature of repercussions of choices in your Mass Effect trilogy. Knowing that you have requested further constructive feedback to the ending of Mass Effect 3, I have compiled a comprehensive list regarding the ending and possible and essential improvements to be made. Thank you for reading this.

Essential Story related changes:

1. EXPLAIN EVERYTHING! Embrace the INDOCTRINATION THEORY, starting from when Shepard gets hit by Harbinger's beam or when the transport vehicle Shepard, Squad and Anderson are in experiences a hit or tremor. Subsequently, let Shepard, after the consequent only right destroy choice (and maybe think of something for Synthesis and Control), wake up on earth with his squad and some remaining universal troops (Krogan, Asari, Drell, Turian, Human, Geth, Batarian, etc).

2. Knowing that the Extended Cut will NOT feature any gameplay, but ONLY DIALOGUE AND/OR (EXTENDED) CINEMATICS, after Shepard wakes up, with cinematics and dialogue inbetween, let in the end have some final showdown with the Harbinger.

3. Make a gold ending difficult to achieve, but possible (as in ME2): Shepard alive, with LI, all (some) squad survivors, Anderson dead/alive... but make it possible.

4. Give us CLOSURE. Let us have cinematics and dialogue after the end. Then you can still leave it open for continuation through other games, dlcs, whatever...

Cinematics related changes/addition:

These changes are not essential, but give you some input of what I (and many other fans) would like the cinematics to be like, as we have felt that in the end of such an amazing trilogy, the end mission on earth is does not communicate the feeling of sufficiently grand scale. The cinematic trailer for Mass Effect 2 and 3 are great and make a good orientation.

1. Let us see our WAR ASSETS IN ACTION! Many fans found it disappointing that the war assets in the game were minimized down to statistics and could not be seen in the actual game (besides fleets in the space battle). Let us see our Krogans in melee close-up combat with Wrex/Wreav leading them, flexible Drells in combat, Salarian STGs under command of Kirrahe, Quarian engineers, Asari kicking butt with biotics, Geth Hunters, Turian Spec Ops Troops, Human Ground forces etc. against all types of reaper forces (Cannibals, Husks, Brutes, Banshees, etc.). Let us have our squad right in the middle of it and give them some special actions (i.e. Liara or Javik using Biotics, Tali shocking some Husks with overload, Garrus with his Sniper rifle, James doing bloodbath, etc. Maybe show us some small ships and shuttles aiding in combat, also against real Reapers (the squid ones ). These suggestions would give us a greater feeling of universal forces united against one fatal threat in the final battle, no matter of what race or origin.

2. An idea that I have found in forums which I immediately liked was that it would be cool and would completely make sense if you could assign your Squadmates special tasks as in the Suicide Mission in Mass Effect 2. Subsequently, they would not be available to come with shepard in person, but would some hundred meters away lead other troops into battle or fulfill tasks compatible with their abilities (i.e. Garrus in a sniping spot commanding war asset snipers, Ashley/Kaidan holding the line at a barricade or other hotspot, Tali handling damaged Makos, Hammerheads, Shuttles, etc.).Let us still make choices during the mission on earth that will affect the lives of troops and squadmates in battle. Why would troops or squadmates not die in such a grand scale battle on earth if they could during a comparatively small mission as the suicide mission?

3. Give the Normandy and other ships a scene in combat on earth's sky vs. Reapers. Give Joker another scene after the goodbye scene on the Normandy.

Conclusion: This is my compilation of changes/additions that me and thousands of other fans would like to see. The story related changes are considered essential by me (and others) to make the ending satisfactory and great. The cinematics/dialogue changes are not vital, but would significantly improve the ending mission on earth and would make the last battle of the ME trilogy more final and weighed.

Thank you for reading this, both Bioware and other fans. Please let me know what you think of my list. Dear Bioware, your fanbase appreciates that you listen to us and try to assimilate our input to give us a better ending. Thank you.

[Houzi77]

Firstly, I’m glad the ending to Mass Effect 3 is going to be addressed in the Extended Cut, I hope BioWare take our thoughts into consideration. The vast majority of suggestions from fans here are well developed and superbly thought out so I’ll try not to repeat ideas that other people have already made.

I firmly believe that “Mass Effect” is this generations “Star Wars”. The amount of time and effort fans have invested in these games (and the subsequent fan fiction) demonstrates how much people love the universe BioWare has created. It also explains the unprecedented back-lash to the endings.

This franchise has legs, and I for one will continue to play future games, but if I have issues with ME3 (that haven’t been mentioned by others), they would be mainly cosmetic, and could probably be resolved via DLC.

Maybe I missed it in ME3, but the lack of reference or resolution to the “dark energy” problem from the Haestrom mission in ME2 was disappointing. It felt like there was a much bigger story there, but it was cut from the final game. I’m hoping that they’re planning to cover that in future content - I personally would like to see a future DLC that covered the dark energy problem in more depth: Perhaps a mission that involved a threat to Rannoch’s sun, and Shepard’s attempts to prevent the Reapers from destroying the system.

Speaking of Rannoch, I thought those missions were some of the best written and most exciting levels BioWare has created - One that had a genuine emotional gut punch depending on the choices you made. However, what disappointed me was the fact we never saw the quarian’s faces. I would love to have seen a big reveal of the admiral’s faces (at least) at the end of the Priority: Rannoch mission along with Tali removing her helmet. Her reveal was, to my mind, a wasted opportunity that felt rushed. Never seeing her face on her character model was unsatisfying. Now that BioWare have established what she looks like, they could possibly create an appearance pack DLC that remedied that?

Modifié par Houzi77, 26 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[Archon3]

TempShark wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Will paste here something me and some other forumites wrote on another thread.

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Seryl wrote...

snip...

I have a question for anybody that'd care to answer. If ME3 ended with no final choice, would anybody have been disappointed? That is, if you could only destroy the Reapers, would that have been acceptable? In this scenario, the Crucible firing would remove the Reaper shields, then your ending would hinge on how high, or low, your EMS was.

The reason I ask is that the more I think about the ending, the more I think that the end choices were shoehorned in simply to give the illusion of choice to the player. If Shepard has spent the past five years working toward destroying the Reapers, starchild or no, it seems bizarre that he'd suddenly choose an option that didn't kill them.

*sigh* Just the way I had hoped it would end....a straightforward ending with the reapers destroyed, and your choices shaping the end-sequences and consequences...

...snip...

There is no need at all for the Starchild-scenes and those red/blue/green-choices. none at all. Stop the game after the final confrontation with TIM, see Anderson die, activate the crucible...and hope your EMS is high enough that most of your allies and Earth survive and a team can even pick up Shepard for the ultimate happy ending...

...snip...

Exactly as I would like it to end. Instead of shooting a tube, just push the button. The Crucible, instead of making all that space magic, takes the shields/barriers of the Reapers off. We know from ME1 that a Reaper without its shield takes just a couple shots before it is destroyed, even before the Thanix Cannons. The best case scenario for the Reapers would be that they got just as powerful as any other dreadnought. Then the EMS would get into the game. The higher the EMS, the lesser the casualties. Simple, and allows for a great variety of endings.

I totally love this idea!!
Let the Crucible weaken the Reapers and depending on your EMS, you can annihilate them, just barely survive, or if EMS was too low then completely lose the battle to the Reapers.  A lack of preparation allowed and ending in ME2 where Shep and crew all die so it's completely feasible to have something like that in the final battle.  You can be fully prepared to take the Reapers out with a high EMS, somewhat prepared to take them out, or not prepared at all and everyone dies, completing yet another cycle.  Varying levels of EMS will determine the multiple endings such as which race/fleet is still standing in the end.

Anyone else agree with this?

Yes, this is the type of ending that I was expecting to see; Simple, gratifying & coherent.

Edit:

No need for the Starchild / Catylist ghost  and No need for the pointless scence of the Normandy Crashing on a unknown planet.

I prefer this Ending, over the Indoction Theory.

Modifié par Archon3, 26 avril 2012 - 11:13 .

[StarcloudSWG]

Catalyst: "... and preserve the old life in Reaper form."
Shepard: "You're not preserving them, you're killing them and pretending the corpse is still alive! Every Reaper is indoctrinated, every Reaper mind follows one thought, one will; Yours! There's no growth there, there's no life there, there's no imagination, no art, no culture, no music. Growth comes from difference, from struggle, from, yes, from 'chaos.' All you're doing is killing advanced civilizations to turn them into your puppets, your toys, your zombie followers!"

[your-friendly-noggin]

I already did a big post, but i'd just like to say, please don't embrace the indoctrination theory, it is terrible. There are plenty of ways to fix the endings but this isn't one of them, I for one would gladly just play the final battle again if it means i can see a new ending that actually makes sense considering shepards actions.

At least give paragons a chance, as it stands a pure paragon would not choose any of those three options, synthesis is morally ambiguous, control is basically just enslaving the reapers all over again and destroy kills not only reapers but the now peaceful geth and EDI.

[BlazingHawkEye]

There are some great responses in this thread to the ending and I hope that Bioware still reads the thread because I think that taking fan ideas is great. There are a number of flaws that have been pointed out but one which I feel is lacking is with EMS. The ending doesn't depend on what choices you made, just that you made them. I might have lost out on Salarian support because I saved the Krogan but it doesn't matter all that much because my EMS was still really high. I would like to see some consequence of my choice here. Maybe a small scene at the end for the major sections of galactic support and your former squad members, i.e. the destiny ascension fighting or the Krogan fighting or whatever just show some consequence for choice. It would make the ending a lot better in my opinion. Also, get rid of the star child too, he's just awful. I really loved 99% of the series but the ending has stopped me from replaying the 3rd game although I really want to.

[N7Kopper]

your-friendly-noggin wrote...

I already did a big post, but i'd just like to say, please don't embrace the indoctrination theory, it is terrible. There are plenty of ways to fix the endings but this isn't one of them, I for one would gladly just play the final battle again if it means i can see a new ending that actually makes sense considering shepards actions.

At least give paragons a chance, as it stands a pure paragon would not choose any of those three options, synthesis is morally ambiguous, control is basically just enslaving the reapers all over again and destroy kills not only reapers but the now peaceful geth and EDI.

I keep thinking the best way to make this make sense would be to use the fact that Shepard lives the best version of Destroy to simply say "Oh look, the Crucible was built perfectly and undamaged! Only the Reapers died! Victory for Team Milky Way!"

[DOCTOR CHA0TICA]

Personnaly, I miss some old "friends" some NPC's who are lacking from the final chapter.

I made this youtu.be/HqUvRC5SxDU vid coz I couldn't be bothered writing a wall of text!! lol

[level4paperboy]

MP should NOT affect SP. I'm sure that there are more anti-social folks out there, who do not wish to interact with the denizens of the network, just to be able to gain access to a certain ending. Oh, and being forced to play a certain way throughout all three games, just to be able to get a certain ending in the final installment is just painful. I know EA is evil, but BW sure as hell wasn't...at least it wasn't in the past.

Modifié par level4paperboy, 26 avril 2012 - 04:29 .

[your-friendly-noggin]

N7Kopper wrote...

your-friendly-noggin wrote...

I already did a big post, but i'd just like to say, please don't embrace the indoctrination theory, it is terrible. There are plenty of ways to fix the endings but this isn't one of them, I for one would gladly just play the final battle again if it means i can see a new ending that actually makes sense considering shepards actions.

At least give paragons a chance, as it stands a pure paragon would not choose any of those three options, synthesis is morally ambiguous, control is basically just enslaving the reapers all over again and destroy kills not only reapers but the now peaceful geth and EDI.

I keep thinking the best way to make this make sense would be to use the fact that Shepard lives the best version of Destroy to simply say "Oh look, the Crucible was built perfectly and undamaged! Only the Reapers died! Victory for Team Milky Way!"

I hope that happens, I really do, because it doesn't make sense for shepard to kill all his synthetic buddies, especially when that's the only "shepard lives" option.

[Tempest81]

  An Open Letter to Bioware Concerning the End of Mass Effect 3 



I think that the Mass Effect series is one of the best ever made, and seeing as I have played videogames since 1986 I have a significant pool of comparison.  Beyond the obvious care and skill that went into the production of every Mass Effect game, they also presented a player with one of the most interesting and comprehensive venues for making meaningful decision in a game, and watching how the consequences of those decisions reverberate for dozens of hours of game play.  Just seeing how the choices I made with Commander Shepard were carried over from one game to the next provided a personalized experience that made me and other players feel not just
that we were on a journey with the game’s hero but that we were the game’s hero.  It was my choice as a player
that earned the loyalty of my allies, that consigned friends and comrades to victory or death, and that built or destroyed relationships.

It is because I have enjoyed Mass Effect so much that I must say that I am disappointed with how the series ends.  My disappointment stems from the abandonment of meaningful player agency as Mass Effect 3 comes to its conclusion.  This same player agency was the most unique and defining characteristic of the Mass Effect series, and to abruptly turn away from it at the end and instead construct a “what’s-behind-door-number-three” approach is a use of the letter of the law to violate the spirit of the law.  The player still gets to choose one of three similar paths at the end, but that those three choices are in virtually no way contingent upon the choices players made previously.  As noted above, this continuity of player choice has been the hallmark of the Mass Effect games.

This last second turn from what was obviously a core design principle not only marred an otherwise stellar game but also damaged my faith that Bioware’s other franchises with similar player agency mechanics will
similarly run to the same fault.  At PAX East, members of the design team from Dragon Age 3 proclaimed
that “decision will matter: Yes”[1].  How can I be asked to believe this, however, when the Mass Effect series, which
prided itself on the importance of player choices in the game, undercut this very principle at the end?  Additionally, I cannot accept the premise that Dragon Age 3 will avoid this mistake when Bioware currently has the chance to alter the conclusion of Mass Effect 3 to keep it in line with its own design principle, but instead has made a lackluster statement that the Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut DLC will only be “creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences”[2].  Granted, this offer is better than nothing, but it still does not address the concerns about respecting the player’s decisions.  This respect Bioware invites by having made player agency one of its core design ideas.  I cannot see how such a skilled team of game developers would have a problem modifying the end of Mass Effect 3 at least to the point where bringing the vast majority of the war assets to the final conflict could open a fourth choice at the end where Shepard rejects the flawed logic and choices presented by the catalyst and decides to trust in the coalition he’s help build to actually win against the Reapers even if it means sustaining heavy losses.  Such an option would at least be a return to the concept of meaningful player action throughout the game because that choices would be dependent upon the choice made by the player concerning of much effort he or she put into building up the war assets to defeat the Reapers.  The “Synthesis” ending is in the same vein, but ultimately fails because it hinges upon agreeing with the Catalyst, not in the player deciding to stand of fall on his or her own choices.

I understand what Bioware said about their Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut, but I implore them to take this opportunity to change their stance.  The fact that this DLC will be free is a gift, and in all honesty I would have paid for it.  I will similarly purchase forthcoming Mass Effect DLC because the game is so enjoyable.  That being said, if the Extended Cut does not address my concerns about the deterioration of meaningful player agency, then I will have
no faith that Bioware’s other title will avoid the same pitfall.  I will not accept promises that my choices will matter if it is made clear that my in-game decisions will be undermined.  To that end, if the Extended Cut does not show a return to meaningful player agency then I will not purchase or play Dragon Age 3.  Since I stated that you have and will have my monetary support for Mass Effect 3, the most effect way I would have to register my complaint would be to not provide that same support for Dragon Age 3.

I want to be clear in that I am not encouraging a boycott; other people can best decide who to spend their own money.  I am not even looking for an apology.  I know you love your game with at least as much fervor as the players, and it is in that mutual love for the Mass Effect series that I ask for you to respect the very spirit of the
work you created and instill the players’ choices with the same weight that made us all fans of the work in the first place.

 Sincerely,

 Tempest81



[1] Gamespot.
“Dragon Age Gets Some New Digs at PAX East 2012.” .  4-11-2012.





[2]
Darklarke.  “Mass Effect 3 Extended
Cut.” http://blog.bioware....3-extended-cut/.  4-5-2012.

[Aethgeir]

your-friendly-noggin wrote...

I already did a big post, but i'd just like to say, please don't embrace the indoctrination theory, it is terrible. There are plenty of ways to fix the endings but this isn't one of them, I for one would gladly just play the final battle again if it means i can see a new ending that actually makes sense considering shepards actions.

At least give paragons a chance, as it stands a pure paragon would not choose any of those three options, synthesis is morally ambiguous, control is basically just enslaving the reapers all over again and destroy kills not only reapers but the now peaceful geth and EDI.

Agreed, my problem with 'indoctrination theory' is it doesn't actually improve the ending it just invalidates it.  No matter what, Shepard's mission still fails (as he/she never made it to the citadel to open the arms so that the crucible could dock, or else the crucible was just a Reaper trap all along); despite your choices, Shepard still dies (secret endings requiring multi-play don't count); and the player's decisions STILL don't matter. 

With indoctrination theory your final decision basically boils down to a multiple choice question with a specific correct answer. It does a great job of glossing over plot holes, but everything that’s actually bad about the existing ending  remains. And for what? So that BioWare can sell us the ‘real’ ending a year from now? And what would that ending be anyway?

[Wulfram]

Posted this as it's own thread, but it maybe fits here too. It's about the information that Shepard needs to make an informed choice at the end of the game.

I'm going to format this as questions Shepard would ask the Catalyst. But the information could be delivered to Shepard in many other formats

General

1. Why should I believe anything you say?

"Because you have no choice" is a fairly legitimate answer to this question. But such a statement should be justified.
Alternatively, the Catalyst could explain why he wants Shepard to make this choice, and what reason he has for being honest.

2. What evidence do you have for the "Synthetics will wipe out all Organic life" stuff?

Note that any answer which relies on the reapers would be very weak. They're supposed to be the solution, not the problem.

Also note that the Geth don't really make a good argument. Independent of the Reapers, they've never been much of a threat to Galactic civilisation as a whole, let alone organic life as a whole. They've just been a threat to the Quarians, and mostly because the Quarians attacked them. And even then, it seems like the Quarians would have beaten them without Reaper interference.

I gather Javik refers to some events in his cycle that might be relevant. If so, then it might be a good idea to include this information in the extended cut for everybody.

3. You suck.

OK, not a question. But Shepard is probably going to really hate this guy, and that needs to be reflected

Destroy

1. Why can't I just destroy the Reapers and not the Geth or EDI?

This is one of the easier questions to answer, because Destroy is the simplest choice. The answer is likely to be either "Because I'm not prepared to offer you that choice" or to rely on technical reasons - that the mechanism the Crucible uses does not allow you to differentiate between Synthetic intelligences. Still, it's an obvious question that should be answered

2. Are you saying I'm going to die?

The Catalyst hints at it with the "you're partially synthetic", Shepard should probably get that clarified.

Control

1. If I'm dead, how can I control the reapers?

This is a very obvious logical problem that needs to be addressed. Maybe Shepard dies and his control only lasts a moment. Maybe the "death" actually means that Shepard is turned into the new catalyst, and loses enough of their "humanity" that they're transformed into something else

2. How much control do I have over the reapers? In particular, can I use this control to destroy them?

If you've truly got absolute control and can tell all the reapers to fly into the sun, then it's hard to see how this option isn't destroy but better. But if you haven't got absolute control, you've got the problem of the Reapers just deciding to get back reaping later.

Synthesis

1. What the hell does this mean?

Really, I don't have a clue. But that's too general to be useful, so here are some specific points that need to be addressed

2. Will people still have free will?
3. Will they be transformed radically from the beings they are now?
4. How will this actually stop Synthetics and Organics from fighting?
5. What if someone creates new Synthetics? Or will this be impossible? If it is impossible, how?
6. What does the "final evolution of life" mean?

[polor89]

[quote]-IT- wrote...

[quote]MRadway wrote...

[quote]Zuka999 wrote...

[quote]thor_viking wrote...

For what it's worth this is a proposed endgame put together based on numerous great ideas from the forums. I believe this is much more satisfying, removes plot holes and makes your decisions matter a whole lot more without completely changing the last mission. Like I said this is based off ideas from other posters so I claim no credit.

To start we obviously need to see more of our war assets in action. During the fight through no-mans land there should be cutscenes depicting Asari commando's setting up biotic shields, krogan fighting rachni, geths working alongside quarians etc.

Once we reach the beam and Harbinger arrives this is where the new ending would come into play.

1)  Shepard's team charges towards the beam but they are blasted by Harbinger.
2)  Anderson picks up a shellshocked Shepard and they continue towards the beam.
3)  The two squad mates are already there and hold off Reaper forces whilst Shepard and Anderson enter the Citadel.
4)  Inside they find Illusive Man who is attempting to control the Reapers.
5)  TIM uses his new powers to make Shepard wound Anderson.
 
 a) If collector base saved:         TIM is too strong and Shepard is made to finish off Anderson.
                                                   Shepard forced to watch as TIM attempts to control the Reapers.
                                                   It fails and he dies, breaking the hold over Shepard.
  If collector base destroyed:   Shepard resists TIM and spares Anderson.
                                                   A wounded Anderson shoots TIM in the side, breaking the hold over Shepard.
                                                   Shepard can shoot TIM or talk him into suicide.
                                                   Shepard and Anderson share their final conversation.

6)  Shepard opens the Citadel and Hackett docks the crucible.
7)  Harbinger takes over TIM's corpse and tries to convince Shepard that resistance is futile.
8)  Shepard must fight off an indoctrination attempt in his dream (by shooting the kid? mwahaha)
9)  Shepard resists and at this point can learn the reason why the Reapers are attacking.
     (Or not if the mystery works better.)
 
 a) Harbinger explains that as organic life grows so do the levels of dark energy. These energy levels are causing the
     galaxy to die as evidenced by the sun on Haestrum. The Reapers cull organic life to keep the energy levels safe
     and preserve the harvested genetic material within themselves. By resisting the Reapers Shepard is actually
     dooming the entire galaxy.
  New game plus mode would reveal the real reason. The Reapers are the ones causing the rise in dark energy.
     They have been trying to solve the problem by harvesting organics and using the genetic material to adapt their
     own evolution. The only way to stop dark energy levels rising is to destroy the Reapers.  

10) The Normandy has landed at the base of the Citadel beam and is dropping off the rest of the squad as
       reinforcements.
11) Harbinger offers to spare Shepard's squad and Earth until the next cycle if they give up now.  

  a) Shepard agrees so the Reapers leave Earth and harvest the rest of the galaxy before heading back to dark 
      space. The End.
 
  Shepard refuses so Harbinger attacks the Normandy. Squad mates could die based on previous choices.

12) Shepard prepares the Crucible to fire which will destroy all Reaper technology.
13) Harbinger leaves Earth and heads towards the Citadel. The allied fleet attempts to hold him off.

  a) 25% EMS:   Fleet fails to slow down Harbinger who reaches the Crucible and destroys it. The entire galaxy falls to
                          the Reapers. The End.
  50% EMS:   Fleet struggles to hold off Harbinger. Hackett is forced to activate the Crucible early in an unsafe
                          state. The blast kills the Reapers but also Hackett, Shepard and badly damages Earth. The End.
  c) 75% EMS:   Fleet holds off Harbinger long enough for the Crucible to charge completely. Someone must stay
                          behind to ensure it goes off safely. Hackett or Shepard can decide to sacrifice themselves. Crucible
                          detonates correctly and kills the Reapers. The End.
  d) 100% EMS: Fleet holds Harbinger at bay. Crucible charges completely and countdown begins allowing Shepard
                          and Hackett to evacuate. Crucible detonates safely and kills the Reapers. The End.

14) Epilogue scenes which reflect the choices you made.

There could be an explanation that once the Geth/Quarian alliance is formed the Geth introduced a safeguard into the Crucible design that means they aren't affected by the blast. The Protheans could also have altered the Crucible based on the research at Ilos to only use the Mass Relays as a delivery system and not have them destroyed in the process.

No star-child, no faulty logic, decisions taken into account, varied endings, Harbinger and EMS playing a bigger role.    
      
[/quote]
Take this seriously in consideration:huh::huh:

[sliverofamoon]

Wulfram wrote...

Posted this as it's own thread, but it maybe fits here too. It's about the information that Shepard needs to make an informed choice at the end of the game.

I'm going to format this as questions Shepard would ask the Catalyst. But the information could be delivered to Shepard in many other formats

General

1. Why should I believe anything you say?

"Because you have no choice" is a fairly legitimate answer to this question. But such a statement should be justified.
Alternatively, the Catalyst could explain why he wants Shepard to make this choice, and what reason he has for being honest.

2. What evidence do you have for the "Synthetics will wipe out all Organic life" stuff?

Note that any answer which relies on the reapers would be very weak. They're supposed to be the solution, not the problem.

Also note that the Geth don't really make a good argument. Independent of the Reapers, they've never been much of a threat to Galactic civilisation as a whole, let alone organic life as a whole. They've just been a threat to the Quarians, and mostly because the Quarians attacked them. And even then, it seems like the Quarians would have beaten them without Reaper interference.

I gather Javik refers to some events in his cycle that might be relevant. If so, then it might be a good idea to include this information in the extended cut for everybody.

3. You suck.

OK, not a question. But Shepard is probably going to really hate this guy, and that needs to be reflected

Destroy

1. Why can't I just destroy the Reapers and not the Geth or EDI?

This is one of the easier questions to answer, because Destroy is the simplest choice. The answer is likely to be either "Because I'm not prepared to offer you that choice" or to rely on technical reasons - that the mechanism the Crucible uses does not allow you to differentiate between Synthetic intelligences. Still, it's an obvious question that should be answered

2. Are you saying I'm going to die?

The Catalyst hints at it with the "you're partially synthetic", Shepard should probably get that clarified.

Control

1. If I'm dead, how can I control the reapers?

This is a very obvious logical problem that needs to be addressed. Maybe Shepard dies and his control only lasts a moment. Maybe the "death" actually means that Shepard is turned into the new catalyst, and loses enough of their "humanity" that they're transformed into something else

2. How much control do I have over the reapers? In particular, can I use this control to destroy them?

If you've truly got absolute control and can tell all the reapers to fly into the sun, then it's hard to see how this option isn't destroy but better. But if you haven't got absolute control, you've got the problem of the Reapers just deciding to get back reaping later.

Synthesis

1. What the hell does this mean?

Really, I don't have a clue. But that's too general to be useful, so here are some specific points that need to be addressed

2. Will people still have free will?
3. Will they be transformed radically from the beings they are now?
4. How will this actually stop Synthetics and Organics from fighting?
5. What if someone creates new Synthetics? Or will this be impossible? If it is impossible, how?
6. What does the "final evolution of life" mean?

Ok... now, to start, and introduce why I agree with the above post, I have to say that I started the SP, and playing MP the first day I got the game, at the same time. I was first thinking... "Well, this is supposedly the last story on Sheppard that I will have, so I will take my time, and make it last." That, and I am seriously OCD about being a completionist. Thing is, after a couple days, some alot of people in the MP were just raging about the endings, and about how bad they were... so.... that put me off finishing the SP at all. And I was/am having a blast with the MP (Minus the character card spamming, but that's off-topic. ) I am still having great fun with the MP.

Anyway, I did finally complete the SP last night. I will say that I loved EVERY minute of it. I laughed... I cried... Many things had me thinking for hours. The little datapad things scattered everywhere, all the conversations, and side-plots. Hell, for once I found scanning planets FUN!

And then..... Sheppard is lifted into the Catalyst's chamber, and every single thing from that point on just made me scratch my head, and wonder what the hell was going on here. My typically very talkative Shep is down to Yes, No answers, and one sentence questions... that make no sense, whatsoever.

And now, in an attempt not to drag this out, I'll just refer to the post I quoted, because, unlike alot of people here, I can handle my Shep. getting killed, even if I would prefer my many different incarnations to live happily ever after with thier LI's. I don't really expect that, as it would be as illogical as the end scene (s) we were presented with. The entire dialogue with the Starchild seemed WAY too short, left way too many questions with no answers, and the endings that are there after you choose what to do are just........... non-sensicle. After playing the Baldur's Gate series completely, many, many times, as well as all of the NWN series, and it's added MP, I have to say that I have never seen Bioware just.... drop the ball on an ending like this before, and it has me utterly baffled. I can't say anything about DA2, because I just didn't become as captivated by DA1 to interrupt my ME playthroughs.... anyway...

I think the two things that really just made me angry and disappointed the most was the desctruction of the Mass Relays, and that there was no choice to co-exist. Without the Mass Relays....... there goes interaction in the Mass Effect universe... which seriously dissapoints me to no end. And why was there no option for Organics and Synthetics to co-exist after we had the whole plotline with the Quarians and Geth? Doesn't this prove that yes, synthetics and organics CAN get along.... not even mentioning EDI and Joker's relationship. Sure, they had some issues... but they did work things out in the end, and seemingly started to HELP each other, and get back to what they were to each other from the start.  I could write pages on these two topics alone, but that isn't the point of this thread.

Edit: After thinking through this some more, and getting some of my thoughts in black and while on how let-down  I was wtih the ending, I really don't have the passion to do any more SP run-throughs. In the past, I would have wanted to do at least 3 more with my male-shep, and 4 with my fem-shep. I don't think I would purchase any of the DLC's that were sold because of this, unless they added directly to the MP side of the game. I just don't see the point in it. I LOVE the MP, and will keep playing it, but I just don't think I would have any interest at all in finishing the SP again, regardless of any DLC that would add to the campaign if it were DLC that is set in the time before the ending. I just couldn't force myself to go through that again.

Modifié par sliverofamoon, 26 avril 2012 - 11:39 .