7055 réponses à ce sujet

[Nuegen]

Don't make a game with one writers story and then change it up at the very last with another writers story. The first two games and most of the third felt Heinleinian... then suddenly and without warning, you went Clarksian. Most sci-fi fans and you should know who I mean with those names. Completely different writing styles and belief systems in a sci-fi world, one is Mankind Can Do through much adversity and supermen/women, the other is Man Kind Will Always Fail without super alien intervention.

I tried very hard to be happy with this game. I really did but the more I think about it, the less pleased I get. I know you guys know how to build a story, you have done it perfectly over and over. What happened? Hiding behind the word art is a fallacy and just seems like a rude "artist" stickin his nose up when someone questions what they did. Was it a horrible fallout with Drew Karpyshyn? Is it a lets make a stand against the jerks who hacked us? Why go in such a different direction?

[daveyeisley]

If there is never going to be new optional endings/conclusions added to the story, then I personally think the following suggestion would be very important.

The ending choices currently all have drawbacks except for one, and even then, only with one style of playthrough.

A mostly renegade Shepard who lets the Geth die and who is mean to EDI can choose Destroy without much problem. They don't really have to agonize. They accomplish their overall goal, get clear satisfaction, and if they have enough EMS, they even get to survive.

Paragons get punished either with death, or becoming a monster who betrays their principles.

This is a problem, and it can be mostly fixed by adding scenes in the Destroy ending cinematics of the extended cut to show that, like Shepard, EDI and the Geth survive.

The issue would remain that Shepard doesnt know this outcome at the time of choosing, but there is plenty of justification to believe the Catalyst is lying, so it can be hand-waved.

Modifié par daveyeisley, 15 mai 2012 - 12:50 .

[Christianswe]

Regarding the ending:

If you could, maybe add something with the LI.
Maybe add Harbringer in there some more?? That would be golden.
If you could se the fruits of your labour, seeing your sqadmates who survived. What they do next?
Something about Shepard??
What happens to earth, something from there.

Good Luck guys. I look forward to the Extended Cut DLC. I think it´s goning to be great.
Thanks for adding to the ending. I just want to show my support and love to your games.
PEACE.

[Fezztheeelite2]

Well I feel that the endings are lack luster based on the fact that there is so much depth to the over all game. I wont lie to anyone and say you didn't do a smashing job on the over all experience. But that might be what has hurt you the most.
You have such and amazing thing going, and when something like a brilliant car is so hot, so flashy, the dirt that gets on them look far worse than they would on an already dirty truck.
The way to change this could be simple though in some cases

1. Adopt some aspects of they fan created endings, because quite frankly, some of them are very well thought through. this isn't me saying you should take them completely, just as a base line, something to build from. The IT theory expanded would be something incredible.

2. after the endings there seems to be a lot of split opinions on other things, but something that stands out to many of us are the Romances. The care BW put into the romances in the first and second game were amazing. And this, above all else is the easiest to fix! More dialogue, not auto but what was in the first two games. more depth could easily be achieved with more ingaging conversation. You did a great job with some over them, but less than stellar with others. And for the characters like Tali, utilizing the entanglement communicates would be a perfect way to communicate and still have a visual of what they LI is feeling.

3. something many have already said, The Fruits of Our Labor, we simply were not rewarded the way we should have been. Thane's death being avoided if you have done something before hand that gave you an advantage over Leng. It should be like the scenes with Ash/Kaiden and Tali and legion. Just something, it doesnt have to be Thane, that was a great scene that showed the true character of Thane, and made you WANT to get Leng, but just in general there was so much left out with what your work amounted to over 4 years of playing. The ending could must certainly reflect that, I have already read so decent ideas on here. All I am asking is for some deeper thought within these projects. More and more these days the field I am going into seems to be getting lazy. Games used to have depth and thought, now its about being flashy and fast pasted. there has to be a middle ground, its time to set the bar Bioware.

Thank you

[TimberOwls]

Some more content with the ME2 LI's would be great...or just the ME2 characters in general. I mean, they kinda got screwed over.

[TweedleDee66]

Ok I’ll bite even though this will serve no purpose….

Start by redoing the beginning of the game. The beginning was just all to in your face. With no hint of a back story on how Shepard got to Earth who Vega was. It was just blamo! and the Reapers are here! No suspense at all even though we know they are on the way.

I would have had something set up like this and it includes the idea for confirming your import decisions or for a new Shepard to make them now:

-Game begins. Shepard is in his/her quarters reviewing file footage of Shepard’s military hearing involving the Arrival incident.

*If the player didn’t do Arrival then the footage and dialog could be replaced with some generic news, perhaps with Emily Wong as the newscaster.

-During the dialog the scene shifts to a mass relay that activates with the arrival of Reaper ships as they move in and destroy Arcturus Station and the Aliance fleets there.

-We cut back to Shepard’s quarters and Vega shows up and we have a dialog with him where we go through the major decisions we have made in previous games.

*This is for new players to the franchise to help flesh out the back story and outcomes of the big decisions over the lame system (how many people died?) we got. As well as to get you to know about this Vega character and what happened especially if you didn’t play Arrival or read any of the books/comics.

-During that dialog we cut back out to space and see a fleet of Alliance ships near another mass relay. As it activates dozens of Reaper ships arrive and wipe out the Alliance fleet. Afterwards we see the reaper ships fly toward Saturn.

-Cut back to how the game starts as it is….

[Christianswe]

Please show thing from the aftermath of the battle. Show things after, show earth,, the victory fleet,
squadmates, what happens next? Some dialog maybe?

[Reuben702]

Please, please, please fix up Morinth!
First of all, bring back the Dominate ability, that was one of the main reasons I kept her and to have it taken away undermines the whole point of keeping her alive.
Also, instead of having her set to be a Banshee, make it more like Jack where if you don't save her from Grissom Academy, she is encountered as a Phantom at the Cerberus Base. Make Morinths mission a flip side of Samaras. Have Morinth worried about her sisters, trying to break them out of the Monastery trying to keep them safe and if we fail to complete the mission, then have her on Earth as a Banshee. Please, do this, whether it is as DLC or not, I and many other people really think this is a good idea.

[Seifer006]

Have you seen the Samara Group? Very constructive

Also, Miranda Lawson Group

There's also a Very good Thread with great constructive suggestions

[Seifer006]

I myself paid $80 CE - and I was NOT AT ALL HAPPY on the squad I had to bring.

I'm not a fan of Liara. She's not at all interesting. Yet was given the largest on emphasis in the entire ME series.

I"m a fan of: Zaeed, Wrex, Wreav, Grunt, Subject Zer0, Miranda, Samara!!!  These are MY SQUAD. These are the onesI roll with. I'm very thankful for Garrus. But in ME3 where was Grunt after I helped him with the missing scouting mission? Why DIDN'T I HAVE AN OPTION TO BRING HIM ON MY SQUAD???

Or Zaeed!!!??? I downloaded the DLC and rolled with him on an entire seperate playthrough in ME2 and yet I get only CAMEO!!!!!!!! WTF??? $80 for a CAMEO??? I want my money back....
Zaeed is a bad**** and he's much cooler then boring Liara...

or how about Wrex!!! I spent an entire playthrough in ME1 with this dude! Him and Garrus, and yet in ME2 I couldn't recruit him and ME3 HE LEAVES AFTER THE TUTCHANKA MISSION!!!!! 

Let me continue on venting my disappoinment - In ME2: I did an entire playthrough with Subject Zer0 and Samara in my squad and yet in ME3 they were only cameos. I had Subject Zer0 as my LI and she doesn't even join me my squad nor on the normandy that is awful writing Bioware. It's not at all good. Especially for $80!!!!!!

I did an entire playthrough with Samara in ME2. I find her MUCH MORE INTERESTING THEN BORING LIARA!!!
I wish I had Samara as a LI in ME series, since she's a justicar and Justicar themselves aren't restricted by their code to have a relatoinship. I as a fan of hers, would be great pleased to have her as a LI.

Lastly: H.A.R.B.I.N.G.E.R.

I thought Harbinger was the coolest villian (Reaper) and was looking for a conversations with him throughout ME3. Bioware you purposefully built Harbinger up as the Leader of all the Reapers and that even in the Arrival DLC you made it as if there was going to be some EPIC SHOWDOWN.............and there wasn't. I was let down. I was pissed. $80 ...........gone

so yeah. I'm disappointed. I wanted to have all these in ME3. I was let down. I was deceived. I expect a response. This will be my last Bioware game if these issues don't get resolved.

[Seifer006]

But I will give my praise Bioware.


I am thankful for what you've created. The ME Universe is ingenious. You've done very well with this. So much deep-rich history.

1. First Contact War
2. TIM, and the Rise of Cerberus
3. The Rachni Wars and the Krogan Rebellions
4. The Mystery of the Protheans, Yahg, and the Reapers.

these are just some of the things that many fans want more of. And you've done well on delivering. And the greatest part of it all - You've put up with us fans (whether us whining, us being very angry) it just shows you've created such an Monumental Series and we've grown to love it, which is why we are so passionate on why we were so disappointed in ME3. We want this legacy to continue. Keep the richness. Keep the character driven, Epic-Story going.

We love the characters you've created. Because they're Interesting. Fun, Humours, Exciting. Intelligent and Creative.

As fans we express our concerns but we wouldn't put the time and effort in all this if we didn't believe you could

Deliver successfully

[Seifer006]

And if you're ever going to make a prequel series:

The Rachni Wars & Krogan Rebellions (1st choice)

2nd Choice:

TIM  and the Rise of Cerberus


and btw

Who is Aleena?

• Is it Aria T'Loak

If So, be a great DLC with us playing as Wrex.

[Reuben702]

Please listen to this guy!!!

[JoJohnson117]

I found the overall quality of the Mass Effect trilogy to be the greatest franchise I have ever played. I am an avid gamer so I base this on multpile levels. The part I found most interesting and the best part of this game is how you feel like you are a space badass in a movie where you are the main character. You choose to make your character look like yourself or like you have always wanted to look or experiment and see how different it is from a female's perspective. It is always enjoyable to talk about this game with friends because I will say that I saved the xyz homeworld while they will say I wanted to keep my loyalty to the squad member or similar scenarios. I don't know why but I never liked Kaidan because I felt he was too shallow and was afraid and kind of made me nervous and feel awkward when I was around him so I always left him on Virmire but I loved Ash. Sadly enough I felt that there should have been your squad members from all games and new ones from ME3 in the game. It felt like a small roster compared to the rest of the series especially ME2. I must say that up until I was madly dashing towards the beam in the endgame I really felt that I had rallied the galaxy togethter and made on heck of an army which felt good. However, war assets seemed shallow as they didn't change the Cutscenes the way I had hoped. All my hard work to convince the Elcor to help me seemed lost when I didn't see them firing their cannons in the battlefield and your squad, crew and ME2 Cameos didn't pop up in the ending as I had hoped they would. I spent hours making sure they were all loyal in ME2 to guarantee their safety yet they just stood back when I went into the final fight. I wanted to see a massive all in Cutscene of 10 or more minutes of all my friends fighting it out with the reapers and the indoctrinated to stop the Illusive Man in his tracks. I had also worked so hard to get up my paragon meter yet I still couldn't convince the Illusive Man not to kill Anderson who I had wanted to protect. And after all that the explanation was by a human child, now if the reapers had been reaping for cycles and cycles the origin creator wouldn't be a human child of all species. I would have rathered find out that the reapers were created by a race many cycles ago and just like the Quarians created the Geth so did this race created one Reaper known as Harbinger or Sovereign. They created the Reaper to prevent destruction and chaos from ever happening to their own race. However the Reaper soon realized that it would need to completely annihilate this race to make that happen. Before this race was anhilated they created a new species which the reapers would leave alone in that cycle known as the Keepers. The Keepers would continue to create the races from each cycle and in each cycle the reaper army would grow stronger and form a new reaper made after it. Now, Commander shepards learns this by the Catalyst which is a VI that tells him all this information and gives him multiple options on finishing the war. Synthesis in the ending was the one I chose but it felt like it went against everything mass effect stood for. The diversity between races is what makes life worth living. Even giving one other option where you did not activate the Crucible and if your war assets were high enough you would defeat the reapers but if they were not the would be overrun and a new cycle would begin. All in all the combat worked well but I would have preferred a co-op campaign as Horde mode felt cheap and stripped choice which was the best part of the Mass Effect Universe. A co-op story campaign would be a great DLC for the Current ME or when you make ME4 please add it in. Oh and the mass relay destruction was silly because it left all the races stranded at Earth with no way home and Mass Relay destroy systems according to Arrival DLC.

[JoJohnson117]

Nuegen wrote...

Don't make a game with one writers story and then change it up at the very last with another writers story. The first two games and most of the third felt Heinleinian... then suddenly and without warning, you went Clarksian. Most sci-fi fans and you should know who I mean with those names. Completely different writing styles and belief systems in a sci-fi world, one is Mankind Can Do through much adversity and supermen/women, the other is Man Kind Will Always Fail without super alien intervention.

I tried very hard to be happy with this game. I really did but the more I think about it, the less pleased I get. I know you guys know how to build a story, you have done it perfectly over and over. What happened? Hiding behind the word art is a fallacy and just seems like a rude "artist" stickin his nose up when someone questions what they did. Was it a horrible fallout with Drew Karpyshyn? Is it a lets make a stand against the jerks who hacked us? Why go in such a different direction?

I agree completely

[Seifer006]

Reuben702 wrote...



Please listen to this guy!!!

Agreed

[Richard 060]

Re-posting from another thread, because I feel it's relevant:



'Clarity' would be a good start with the Extended Cut - there's a lot of stuff in the ending that isn't very well-explained. Considering that there's been genuine surprise from BioWare over things like 'the fleet are stranded at Earth without sufficient supplies', 'the Mass Relays are destroyed', 'all the NPCs we know on the Citadel are dead', etc., the implication is that the outcome of the ending should have been a lot clearer then it ended up being. That's a failure in execution, so adding extra material to 'fill in the blanks' and 'connect the dots' more adequately is definately a positive step. 

And a greater sense of 'closure' wouldn't hurt, either - showing how the final outcome affects the galaxy at large and the characters of the story in particular. After all, what's the point in making a choice in a game when the specific effect of that choice is never realised on-screen? Remember, this isn't a movie or a book - the interactive element is an integral part, and should count for something. Never mind "when you press a button, something awesome has to happen. Button - awesome." - how about "when you press a button, something happens. When you press a different button, something different happens"?


However, both of those are improvements to the execution of the ending. Neither deals with (or even acknowledges) the intrinsic problem - as it stands currently, the ending either undermines or outright contradicts crucial plot elements and story arcs from all three games.


I'll probably post a 'laundry list' of some of the less obvious ones and add it to this thead at some point, when I can drum up the constitutional fortitude to do so (it's an arduous task, and no mistake...). Just for the record, I'm not talking about things that aren't clear - I'm talking about cases where something the Catalyst says directly conflicts with an important plot point from earlier in the trilogy.


[EDIT]  Oh, alright - here are just a few examples of what I'm talking about...  [/EDIT]

And they do exist, which leads to the crucial question: which version is right? Do we now have to ignore the validity of what Sovereign says in ME1, because it doesn't mesh with what the Catalyst tells us in the final scenes? Or does the original version carry the greater weight, because it's what lays the foundation for the entire story and indeed setting of the Mass Effect universe?


I think most people would agree that it's a 'cardinal sin' of any storyteller to negate/invalidate crucial elements of their story, simply for the sake of a contrived plot twist later on. Yet this has yet to even be acknowledged by the team at BioWare, which is troubling - you'd think that a company that prides and markets itself on the strength of 'story-based games' would be able to tell when they'd made an elementary mistake, especially once people had pointed it out to them. But there's been nothing, other than the implication that any such issues are simply a lack of understanding on the part of the audience.


To conclude: the very effort of the Extended Cut is an implied admission that the ending as-is doesn't work, and could be improved. If it were 'fine', it wouldn't need any additional content. The concern is that it ends up being a waste of time and money, if the fundamental flaws in the storytelling aren't fixed. Again, BioWare has said repeatedly that they're "not changing the ending".

But if this also extends to 'not correcting contradictions' and 'ironing out continuity issues', then it means the creative team can't tell that they've made what most writers worth their salt would consider 'rookie mistakes'.

And if a company selling itself on the quality of it's games' stories and storytelling can't tell the difference between 'good' and 'bad' writing, that's a damning statement about the current state of BioWare.

Modifié par Richard 060, 19 mai 2012 - 07:36 .

[PoisonMushroom]

Here's how I would have liked to have seen it end: http://social.biowar...8647/1#12138981

[MeatPopsicle]

 How's about less "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER!" and more "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!"

[The Cult Of Shepard]

Christianswe wrote...

Please show thing from the aftermath of the battle. Show things after, show earth,, the victory fleet,
squadmates, what happens next? Some dialog maybe?

That's what I'm hoping to see in the Extended Cut DLC. So I'm with you on this one.

[Ross42899]

 Please show War Assets & ME 2 squadmates in action during "Priority: Earth" mission (add this in the Extended Cut)!

[Fezztheeelite2]

Seifer006 wrote...

Reuben702 wrote...



Please listen to this guy!!!

Agreed

I second that

[CARL_DF90]

Shepard's Trial DLC: Show us what happened directly before the opening scenes of the Reaper attack on Earth. Properly show us why Shep is having to face the music back on Earth and properly introduce us to Mr. James Vega. Can be used as a recap for imported players, and as a character-builder for new players. Uses the actual in-game engine and not low-quality Dark Horse comic panels a la Genesis.

Poll for it right here:
http://social.biowar...ndex/12023944/1

[CARL_DF90]

Fezztheeelite2 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

Reuben702 wrote...



Please listen to this guy!!!

Agreed

I second that

Why didn't they just do what this man is saying? Good grief. I second the second.