Well I got 1.5/5...wooGreylycantrope wrote...
sc0ttsauceXD wrote...
You want feedback bioware? Here take a sit down and read all this
http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/1/
Seriously read the ariticle, everything that is wrong with the endings is listed there. They are a contradiction of everything my Shepard has fought for in the past three games.
What can you change?
1) Let me tell the Catalyst that I am standing in front of him because his solutions are flawed as is his assumption that organics and synthetics can't coexist. I have synthetics as friends and crew memebers and we've all earned the right to find out for ourselves if we can achieve lasting peace.
2) how about an epilogue? let us know what happened to the galaxy we helped shape. Did not ccuring the genophage cause the extiction of the krogan? Were the Geth accepted into galactic society because of their aid in fighting the Reapers or were they still mistrusted? Can we find out what happend to our crew?
3) Remove space magic. That bit with joker flying of in the Normandy made no freaking sense. You can solve a lot of problems just by loosing it.
4) you can also improve the quest journal so that it updates and let's us know if we have already collected an item for a particular sidequest
5)And how about having Harbinger do something other then just blast you for 30 seconds then fly off, he was a significant part of ME2, he should at least try to tell Shepard how futile his struggle is while he's trying to blast the meatbag.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
Автор темы:
RaenImrahl
, мар 17 2012 03:00
#7051
Опубликовано 30 Апрель 2013 - 12:29
GreyLycanTrope
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#7052
Опубликовано 30 Апрель 2013 - 03:09
Mastone
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No one from Bioware is going to be on this anymore probably but here goes
My points:
- Hire better writers;
Even though artistic integrity is in play here, everyone with half a brain can see that storytelling became flawed to say the least, from ME2 on.
Add more realistic dialogue when you're at it, because these soapie dialoques are getting to me.
-Core:
Change the whole core of your games, it basically stems from KOTOR1 and hasn't been improved upon since, just bring in new and fresh programmers on key positions and do a huge refresh.
So no more dark/light-paragorn/renegade meter anymore
-Diversify :
this goes for all disciplines across the entire game, diversify gameplay( meaning a mix of exploration/mysterysolving/shooting/crafting/dialogue/stealth/survival/vehicles, instead of corridor shooting for 20+ hours straight), Diversify level design, from bleak and barren cityscapes to lush jungles and get rid of the unreal corridor stuff it is getting outdated.
Diversify the look and effect of guns and ammo, a pistol would not be effective against a krogan, whereas a shotgun would propel him backwards, armor piercing bullits for armored opponents, rubber bullits for disabling important people to be brought in from questioning
Diversify equipment, a krogan is able to wear bigger armor and carry more and heavier weapons than a human/asari. Equipment should look different and affect movement in some way in a meaningful manner
-Add life:
All worlds looked quite dead to me, if you look at a came like assasins creed or the witcher 2 all the towns feel alive, the citadel was dead there was no - albeit artificial- day/night cycle or weather model, the people are standing around on the same spot...the entire game, no children or animals when you visit the citadel cafe or bar they play the same song the entire game.
-Choices:
Bioware used to be known for character/story driven RPG's to me they have lost that spot ( shortly) after ME3.
Get back to what made Bioware outstanding in the first place which revolved around games where player choice affected or influenced the game world in a meaningful way and add shooter elements to the mix, don't create a shooter with RPG/story elements ( Bioshock infinite would beat you in a heartbeat on that playing field and there are other games which are better there).
Also determine upfront how much the player will influence the game and if the game is part of a trilogy, since this will influence the length and number of real choices of (each/)the game.
I am sure that this is been made clear already but just to be on the safe side: Add real choices like Virmire or the end of ME1 and 2 and get rid of the whole soap opera element where you have little parties and social stuff..we have the sims for that.
-Characters;
Limit the number of companions to what it was in ME1 and develop their backstories and characters better.
Also flesh out their abilities and tie it in to the game, a krogan should move slower but should be able to shoot more rounds per second, receive and deal more damage, whilest an asari should be more nimble and quicker on their feet.
When it comes to traits I would say a soldier should be more proficient and accurate with weapons ( quicker loading times more damage, greater accuracy), whereas a Biotics user would just throw enemies of cliffs or shoot biotic bolts and throw disruptor grenades to break barriers and shields instead of wielding guns.
-Skillbased leveling:
Get rid of the old school way of adding points to any attribute you want, instead make it based on usage if you run a lot you will get faster if you use a gun a lot you would get better at using them.
add genetherapy upgrades/injections which you can buy in stores ( nightvision, running with leopard speeds, quills-for underwater breathing) and have these tie in with levels where you actually need them.
-Breakable/upgradeable equipment;
When equipment meaning armor and guns break down they either jam when you shoot or are less effective in protecting you.
So it needs maintenance, if your weapon/armor gets serviced a lot the store or person in charge of these repairs will find out more about your piece of equipment and will be able to upgrade them or triggers sidequests where you need to find a rare element needed for the upgrade or perhaps a more skilled craftsman who can do the upgrade(s).
-DLC:
Stop this malarkey and focus on creating a finished game, all this nonsense about needing the money and expanding the universe is ridiculous.
Profits for triple A titles are soaring, the fact that EA has a lot of overhead ( read managment layers , lawyers, accountants) should not be the reason their customers get landed with half finished games.
If you want to receive $80 for a videogame be honest about it and just charge that and get it over with, be sure to create a demo level then as well so people will be able to look before they buy, since a lot of people are doubting your ability to make a half decent game ( me included) at this point
-Multiplayer:
Unless you have absolutely polished and repolished the single player campaign, repainted textures, tweaked animations to an almost autistic level, which I doubt you have or will... ad this to the malarkey list as well.
Again look at The Witcher 2 and Bioshock infinite.
-Stop listening to fans:
I know this sounds contradictory, but if you can be honest to yourself an co workers and are able to see that the quality of work has been slipping on all departments and that not the only the ME franchise but Bioware as well needs a huge refresh ( SHIFT +F5) and are able to resolve this I would stop listening to fans.
Not that no one has great ideas here or anywhere else on the net, but if you want to make something truly great you should create it from your own vision and you will see from sales figures if you were right or not.
Only use communities to see if critisism is valid or numerous( like with the ending of ME3 ), but stop listening to requests like I want a mounteable pony or being able to romance a hanar or a party on the citadel during a fight against extermination....... urgh
Just my 2 cents
My points:
- Hire better writers;
Even though artistic integrity is in play here, everyone with half a brain can see that storytelling became flawed to say the least, from ME2 on.
Add more realistic dialogue when you're at it, because these soapie dialoques are getting to me.
-Core:
Change the whole core of your games, it basically stems from KOTOR1 and hasn't been improved upon since, just bring in new and fresh programmers on key positions and do a huge refresh.
So no more dark/light-paragorn/renegade meter anymore
-Diversify :
this goes for all disciplines across the entire game, diversify gameplay( meaning a mix of exploration/mysterysolving/shooting/crafting/dialogue/stealth/survival/vehicles, instead of corridor shooting for 20+ hours straight), Diversify level design, from bleak and barren cityscapes to lush jungles and get rid of the unreal corridor stuff it is getting outdated.
Diversify the look and effect of guns and ammo, a pistol would not be effective against a krogan, whereas a shotgun would propel him backwards, armor piercing bullits for armored opponents, rubber bullits for disabling important people to be brought in from questioning
Diversify equipment, a krogan is able to wear bigger armor and carry more and heavier weapons than a human/asari. Equipment should look different and affect movement in some way in a meaningful manner
-Add life:
All worlds looked quite dead to me, if you look at a came like assasins creed or the witcher 2 all the towns feel alive, the citadel was dead there was no - albeit artificial- day/night cycle or weather model, the people are standing around on the same spot...the entire game, no children or animals when you visit the citadel cafe or bar they play the same song the entire game.
-Choices:
Bioware used to be known for character/story driven RPG's to me they have lost that spot ( shortly) after ME3.
Get back to what made Bioware outstanding in the first place which revolved around games where player choice affected or influenced the game world in a meaningful way and add shooter elements to the mix, don't create a shooter with RPG/story elements ( Bioshock infinite would beat you in a heartbeat on that playing field and there are other games which are better there).
Also determine upfront how much the player will influence the game and if the game is part of a trilogy, since this will influence the length and number of real choices of (each/)the game.
I am sure that this is been made clear already but just to be on the safe side: Add real choices like Virmire or the end of ME1 and 2 and get rid of the whole soap opera element where you have little parties and social stuff..we have the sims for that.
-Characters;
Limit the number of companions to what it was in ME1 and develop their backstories and characters better.
Also flesh out their abilities and tie it in to the game, a krogan should move slower but should be able to shoot more rounds per second, receive and deal more damage, whilest an asari should be more nimble and quicker on their feet.
When it comes to traits I would say a soldier should be more proficient and accurate with weapons ( quicker loading times more damage, greater accuracy), whereas a Biotics user would just throw enemies of cliffs or shoot biotic bolts and throw disruptor grenades to break barriers and shields instead of wielding guns.
-Skillbased leveling:
Get rid of the old school way of adding points to any attribute you want, instead make it based on usage if you run a lot you will get faster if you use a gun a lot you would get better at using them.
add genetherapy upgrades/injections which you can buy in stores ( nightvision, running with leopard speeds, quills-for underwater breathing) and have these tie in with levels where you actually need them.
-Breakable/upgradeable equipment;
When equipment meaning armor and guns break down they either jam when you shoot or are less effective in protecting you.
So it needs maintenance, if your weapon/armor gets serviced a lot the store or person in charge of these repairs will find out more about your piece of equipment and will be able to upgrade them or triggers sidequests where you need to find a rare element needed for the upgrade or perhaps a more skilled craftsman who can do the upgrade(s).
-DLC:
Stop this malarkey and focus on creating a finished game, all this nonsense about needing the money and expanding the universe is ridiculous.
Profits for triple A titles are soaring, the fact that EA has a lot of overhead ( read managment layers , lawyers, accountants) should not be the reason their customers get landed with half finished games.
If you want to receive $80 for a videogame be honest about it and just charge that and get it over with, be sure to create a demo level then as well so people will be able to look before they buy, since a lot of people are doubting your ability to make a half decent game ( me included) at this point
-Multiplayer:
Unless you have absolutely polished and repolished the single player campaign, repainted textures, tweaked animations to an almost autistic level, which I doubt you have or will... ad this to the malarkey list as well.
Again look at The Witcher 2 and Bioshock infinite.
-Stop listening to fans:
I know this sounds contradictory, but if you can be honest to yourself an co workers and are able to see that the quality of work has been slipping on all departments and that not the only the ME franchise but Bioware as well needs a huge refresh ( SHIFT +F5) and are able to resolve this I would stop listening to fans.
Not that no one has great ideas here or anywhere else on the net, but if you want to make something truly great you should create it from your own vision and you will see from sales figures if you were right or not.
Only use communities to see if critisism is valid or numerous( like with the ending of ME3 ), but stop listening to requests like I want a mounteable pony or being able to romance a hanar or a party on the citadel during a fight against extermination....... urgh
Just my 2 cents
#7053
Опубликовано 30 Апрель 2013 - 04:53
Aethgeir
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I mostly have to agree with the above post. And frankly, I don't understand why fans are still trying to rationalize/justify/accept the existing ending when the problems with ME3 are some much deeper than that.
The ending is not the problem, it was a forgone conclusion when you allow a literal Deus ex Machina (the crucible) to actually defeat the Reapers - effectively reducing all of the player's efforts to irrelevance.
Overlord made me hope that ME3 would have more of that kind of exploration: vehicle play tying several levels together and certainly Palavan, Tuchanka, Rannoch and Thessia all could have gotten that treatment.
The above post sites fewer characters with more development, and while he's right, you can't do that halfway through a franchise without disappointing people. And while I was satisfied with how Wrex, Thane and Mordin's stories played out, other characters should have been able to return at Shepard's choice. Who cares if Jacob and Samara were unpopular, Jacob was a LI and choosing between Samara and Morinth was a major decision with potential long-term implications. Cutting actually dynamic characters like Jack makes even less sense.
Levels were gorgeous to look at, which doesn't matter when one can't explore them. Why on earth would you model part of a level and than deliberately make it inaccessible: like a room behind a locked door, seen through a window; or a hallway blocked by a fence or pile of crates to keep the player stuck in a linear shooting gallery?
After 3 games and endless feedback the inventory management is still awful despite the huge potential for interesting loot in the ME universe.
And while I'm fine with the renegade/paragon dynamic, the conversation and RPG elements of ME3 were reduced to a minimum, forcing the whole game on to the rails. My Shepard would never have stooped to a racial slur (big stupid jellyfish), I don't care if it's some kind of running joke. Worse yet, side quests are reduced to 'scan and fetch' quests, reducing the game's overall length, but did ME3s price tag reflect that? Nope.
ME3 had all the potential to be one of the greatest games ever made, but instead it was reduced to 'just another shooter'.
The secret to every great game is: Give more to the player. ME3 took more away.
The ending is not the problem, it was a forgone conclusion when you allow a literal Deus ex Machina (the crucible) to actually defeat the Reapers - effectively reducing all of the player's efforts to irrelevance.
Overlord made me hope that ME3 would have more of that kind of exploration: vehicle play tying several levels together and certainly Palavan, Tuchanka, Rannoch and Thessia all could have gotten that treatment.
The above post sites fewer characters with more development, and while he's right, you can't do that halfway through a franchise without disappointing people. And while I was satisfied with how Wrex, Thane and Mordin's stories played out, other characters should have been able to return at Shepard's choice. Who cares if Jacob and Samara were unpopular, Jacob was a LI and choosing between Samara and Morinth was a major decision with potential long-term implications. Cutting actually dynamic characters like Jack makes even less sense.
Levels were gorgeous to look at, which doesn't matter when one can't explore them. Why on earth would you model part of a level and than deliberately make it inaccessible: like a room behind a locked door, seen through a window; or a hallway blocked by a fence or pile of crates to keep the player stuck in a linear shooting gallery?
After 3 games and endless feedback the inventory management is still awful despite the huge potential for interesting loot in the ME universe.
And while I'm fine with the renegade/paragon dynamic, the conversation and RPG elements of ME3 were reduced to a minimum, forcing the whole game on to the rails. My Shepard would never have stooped to a racial slur (big stupid jellyfish), I don't care if it's some kind of running joke. Worse yet, side quests are reduced to 'scan and fetch' quests, reducing the game's overall length, but did ME3s price tag reflect that? Nope.
ME3 had all the potential to be one of the greatest games ever made, but instead it was reduced to 'just another shooter'.
The secret to every great game is: Give more to the player. ME3 took more away.
Сообщение изменено: Aethgeir, 30 Апрель 2013 - 04:56 .
#7054
Опубликовано 30 Апрель 2013 - 05:37
KaiserShep
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Mastone wrote...
-Add life:
All worlds looked quite dead to me, if you look at a came like assasins creed or the witcher 2 all the towns feel alive, the citadel was dead there was no - albeit artificial- day/night cycle or weather model, the people are standing around on the same spot...the entire game, no children or animals when you visit the citadel cafe or bar they play the same song the entire game.
I think the best example of good atmosphere was in ME2 with Afterlife on Omega. Maybe it was because the music was better lol
#7055
Опубликовано 30 Апрель 2013 - 06:14
Ajensis
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Edit: and yeah, Mastone's post a bit higher up contains some great suggestions (although I suspect it was meant for the other thread with ideas for the next ME game?). I agree with nearly all the points, the only one I dislike is the idea of genetherapy for unique upgrades. It's a bit too "out there" for Mass Effect, I think. Otherwise, very nice post 
As silly as it makes me look, I too would pay a (reasonable) fee for an alternative ending, provided I like what I hear about it. I'd even welcome a realisation of the Indoctrination Theory, despite never having believed in it. Anything but what we've got now
MEHEM was fine, but not quite there. Impressive piece of work for a modding job, though.
iakus wrote...
Bizinha wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
Cricketer15 wrote...
i suggest we change the me3 ending again for the 2nd time.
Would you pay for it?
I would pay. And would preorder the ME4.And I believe that many would pay well.
+1
It'll never happen, though. So I'll have to stick with MEHEM.
As silly as it makes me look, I too would pay a (reasonable) fee for an alternative ending, provided I like what I hear about it. I'd even welcome a realisation of the Indoctrination Theory, despite never having believed in it. Anything but what we've got now
MEHEM was fine, but not quite there. Impressive piece of work for a modding job, though.
Сообщение изменено: Ajensis, 30 Апрель 2013 - 06:23 .
#7056
Опубликовано 06 Май 2013 - 08:25
Modius Prime
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1) I really want the entire story to be written out before hand. When you have your climax of your story, you look back at your rising action to make sure that it gets rid of all inconsistencies. Make sure that character writers STAY as character writers and that story writers STAY as story writers. Don't make the falling action a bunch of slides showing the results of our choices---especially for a game that is cinematic in nature, and focus on the characters: the characters are what drive the ME experience.
2) Don't try to appeal to such a wide demographic of people. I know that it is really good business to have anyone be able to play and understand the story, but common-sense would tell anyone that they shouldn't jump onto the ME3 horse right away without at least completing one-or both-of the previous installments; that way, you could really make it more rewarding for the pre-existing fans. Having a story that appeals to too many people leads to a lot of cutting corners and stream-lining that really isn't what RPGs are about. RPGs are about characterization: being able to connect with your avatar, improved customization (it was limited in ME2 & 3, compared to ME1), meaningful choices with logical consequences (no A, B, C), and relationships between the character and his/her environment. I thought it was a little silly how a lot of the squadmates treated my Shepard like a friend, even if I had romanced them before.
3) Stop making DLC, unless it is for 'bridging' purposes. A game should feel complete when you buy it---especially if you are paying $100 USD for a limited edition. It's just an excuse for people to craft half-baked games, when it could be so much more successful if everyone actually felt like it was complete when the journey ends. Personally, I didn't really connect much at all with the DLCs because it [ME3] is the CONCLUSION of the story and most plot essentials stuff, like Javik and Leviathan, should be in the game already.
4) Fix the journal/quest system. "I'm Commander Shepard and I'm the nosiest person on the Citadel" is really what it boils down to. Make quests actually have interesting environments and don't make it so linear. Try to make a good combination of ME1 exploration and ME2 combat/enviroments.
5) Take out most of the auto-dialogue and replace it with dialogue wheels. I liked how the squadmates had stuff to say about the mission, but it was so dumbed down. All you really had to do was just press A and see what they have to say, instead of clicking investigate, ect, when talking to them. I think auto-dialogue should just stick with the casual crew members, but dialogue wheels should be always available for squadmates. I really liked the immersive feel of ME2 and how the characters slowly grew on you the more you investigated their personalities.
6) Give proper tuitorial features in the beginning of the game. I didn't really like how you jumped on the horse so quickly. It would have been great if there was a targetting room on Earth or something/refresh course before his trial when the Reapers attack.
7) Make the war assets actualy appear in the final battle (Rachni forces, N7 spec ops, volus bombers, merc groups, ect) and have the squadmates that we didn't pick actually get cutscenes while they are fighting. Make it more like the suicide mission where our choices affect whether they survive the final battle or not.
8) Improve on the reject option. I think it's pretty stupid how the god-child thinks that his logic is actually correct when we spent 2 games trying to convince the galaxy that the Geth and Quarians could co-exist peacefully. I thought the premise of the game was about surviving impossible odds, not fatalism/defeatism.
9) Whats the point of the breath scene if Shepard doesn't even get rescued?
2) Don't try to appeal to such a wide demographic of people. I know that it is really good business to have anyone be able to play and understand the story, but common-sense would tell anyone that they shouldn't jump onto the ME3 horse right away without at least completing one-or both-of the previous installments; that way, you could really make it more rewarding for the pre-existing fans. Having a story that appeals to too many people leads to a lot of cutting corners and stream-lining that really isn't what RPGs are about. RPGs are about characterization: being able to connect with your avatar, improved customization (it was limited in ME2 & 3, compared to ME1), meaningful choices with logical consequences (no A, B, C), and relationships between the character and his/her environment. I thought it was a little silly how a lot of the squadmates treated my Shepard like a friend, even if I had romanced them before.
3) Stop making DLC, unless it is for 'bridging' purposes. A game should feel complete when you buy it---especially if you are paying $100 USD for a limited edition. It's just an excuse for people to craft half-baked games, when it could be so much more successful if everyone actually felt like it was complete when the journey ends. Personally, I didn't really connect much at all with the DLCs because it [ME3] is the CONCLUSION of the story and most plot essentials stuff, like Javik and Leviathan, should be in the game already.
4) Fix the journal/quest system. "I'm Commander Shepard and I'm the nosiest person on the Citadel" is really what it boils down to. Make quests actually have interesting environments and don't make it so linear. Try to make a good combination of ME1 exploration and ME2 combat/enviroments.
5) Take out most of the auto-dialogue and replace it with dialogue wheels. I liked how the squadmates had stuff to say about the mission, but it was so dumbed down. All you really had to do was just press A and see what they have to say, instead of clicking investigate, ect, when talking to them. I think auto-dialogue should just stick with the casual crew members, but dialogue wheels should be always available for squadmates. I really liked the immersive feel of ME2 and how the characters slowly grew on you the more you investigated their personalities.
6) Give proper tuitorial features in the beginning of the game. I didn't really like how you jumped on the horse so quickly. It would have been great if there was a targetting room on Earth or something/refresh course before his trial when the Reapers attack.
7) Make the war assets actualy appear in the final battle (Rachni forces, N7 spec ops, volus bombers, merc groups, ect) and have the squadmates that we didn't pick actually get cutscenes while they are fighting. Make it more like the suicide mission where our choices affect whether they survive the final battle or not.
8) Improve on the reject option. I think it's pretty stupid how the god-child thinks that his logic is actually correct when we spent 2 games trying to convince the galaxy that the Geth and Quarians could co-exist peacefully. I thought the premise of the game was about surviving impossible odds, not fatalism/defeatism.
9) Whats the point of the breath scene if Shepard doesn't even get rescued?
Сообщение изменено: Modius Prime, 06 Май 2013 - 08:29 .
