I think it's fine if the endings are changed to tell us more about the reapers and even to give hope for the galaxy rebuilding itself, but it's clear that the writer's intended for Shepard to be a sacrifice in this war and I think that should remain. Just tossing in a happy ending where he rides off in the sunset with Liara is really the wrong way to go.
My two cents.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
Débuté par
RaenImrahl
, mars 17 2012 03:00
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#752
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:45
DungeonHoek
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As I have stated before, the game needs work. It is good for the most part. But it is not without its flaws. Since you are asking, I shall restate myself.
The weight system, for multiplayer, it is fine. If not perfect. It balances out play there so that people aren't overly powerful. But its inclusion in single player it is an out of place annoyance that makes no functional sense, given what the character is. Shepard is cyborg, and immensely strong. And according to ME2, his cybernetics were heavily modified to a point where this should not be a problem. And taking into account that the weaponry he deals with, is in fact rather light in weight to begin with, this should also not be a problem. This is a system that if you were going to go this way, should have really been implemented from the very first game, instead of the final one in the series.
There is an extreme overuse of JPEG's in the game, they can be found in quite a number of places. But the first place I readily find them is on the Citadel Embassy past the Specter office when you look down over the ledge of the balcony. When I saw those people "Frozen" in time, I thought it was a glitch, then I saw a Turian walking around them in a figure 8 pattern. Then I thought that maybe it was a portion of the game that I would be at later and it was just hidden poorly. But I later learned that these were in fact Doom/Duke 3D style JPEG Sprites. And you can glitch yourself down to them.
The fuel system was a nagging annoyance in Mass Effect 2, now it drains even faster then before. I'm sure there is an actual reason for this, but perhaps some obtainable ship upgrades to negate this annoyance would be nice.
While the return of grenades is nice, removing heavy weapons as an option and making them random finds seems to be, well, asinine. They should be an option as they were before since you can buy all the cool armors you did or didn't have before, and all the other neat weaponry and upgrades. Besides, making them random finds while interesting in one sense, excessively limits their usefulness.
As noted by my one friend, the characters no longer say anything in battle. They used to say things all the time throughout Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, which gave them interesting character and immersion. That is sorely lacking here in ME3.
This whole thing with Tali's face, both the photo and lack of reveal. Honestly, I don't understand why it was handled this way. But it was a poor choice at best. I have been around plenty of games that have a dedicated modder fan-base that could and or would make a proper head in a day to a week tops. So, for the use of a very poorly photo-shopped stock photo to be employed and nothing more, I do not understand.
The mission journal is quite lacking too, being quite vague and at this point should probably come with some kind of way point system. Especially for those times when you have to take an object to one of the hundreds of near identical Volus's,Asari's,Humans, or Salarians on the Citadel.
Naturally, the multiplayer while good needs work. There are many bugs in it. I'm sure they will be addressed or have been mentioned. But it really sets the tone when the first time you go to play with a friend, you play the same setting as the demo, that being Fire-base White and Cerberus troops. And watch as he runs up a ramp and the game locks his entire console up. But consistently we have had problems. I have lost character levels, enemies have not spawned when they should making the match unplayable, they have gotten stuck in the ground and air. Powers will refuse to activate when told to, even though they are ready to use. And the spawn rates tend to be quite insane, with players being nearly always surrounded before they know it. Not because they get flanked mind you. But because the enemies simply spawn right behind them.
As for the ending, yes, as I said previously, this needs expanded upon. As it stands, it is not enough to satisfy the entire fan-base. It does not need to be replaced, it never needed to be replaced. What it needs is to merely be expanded upon. With more endings implemented to satisfy the overall consumer-base. Some people want their Shepard defeating the Reapers but not at the perceived cost of the galaxies, some want the Reapers to eradicate everything. Some want what is there already. That is very clear.
And that is where the current Ending is a jump off point that can be expanded upon, more game can be put in so it doesn't end there unless people choose it to. As many games in the past have done, the effort you put in is the ending you get.
For example, and this is MY notion for a "heroic" way to go. And this all hinges on an expansion mind you. During the encounter with TIM, if Shepard's EMS is high enough, he gains another option. To shoot himself instead of Anderson. And the player takes control of Anderson, who instead confronts the Catalyst. And faced with the decision's at hand. If you choose the "Destroy" Option, it all fades to black and Shepard himself wakes up in the rubble in London. Turning that situation into a dream and an attempt by the Reapers to indoctrinate Shepard when he is at his weakest. With no friends to snap him out of it or any of that. The point of switching the roles would be that Anderson reflects his values and resolve. And Shepard having "killed" himself would have actually killed the part of him that the Reapers and TIM have access to. And thus from there, the story can continue on to the final battle once wounds are healed.
I rather envisioned the Reapers being originally like the Geth that grew out of control, and centralized their AI into a plain of existence that is not normally accessible to other beings. Such as subspace. Thus the Crucible is the access point, and would require a Reaper core to activate. And they are getting conflicting orders thus malfunctioning. They are separate but connected. And so long as Reaper Prime is intact, they can't truly be stopped. But once the crucible is active. Shepard and the crew could access this place. Face the Reaper Prime, and beat it down with the aid of all surviving major cast members showing up such as fan favorites, but also representatives from their respective races. As he did work to unite them. And upon destruction of the Reaper Prime, the Reapers cease functioning. And from there a heroic ending can be cobbled together with exposition on what became of everything.
But that is MY NOTION. I once again state that the current ending is perfect for a jump off point to include other endings that suit the consumer-base without alienating the ones who enjoy the current ending. I merely state my notion as an example because of that fact. It can be done in many different ways, and it opens up possibilities. And surely you at Bioware can see that. If money is involved or not on this, I don't think that really matters. I think making a good product that sells and draws a crowd that will keep coming back instead of just being resentful and angry is more important.
The weight system, for multiplayer, it is fine. If not perfect. It balances out play there so that people aren't overly powerful. But its inclusion in single player it is an out of place annoyance that makes no functional sense, given what the character is. Shepard is cyborg, and immensely strong. And according to ME2, his cybernetics were heavily modified to a point where this should not be a problem. And taking into account that the weaponry he deals with, is in fact rather light in weight to begin with, this should also not be a problem. This is a system that if you were going to go this way, should have really been implemented from the very first game, instead of the final one in the series.
There is an extreme overuse of JPEG's in the game, they can be found in quite a number of places. But the first place I readily find them is on the Citadel Embassy past the Specter office when you look down over the ledge of the balcony. When I saw those people "Frozen" in time, I thought it was a glitch, then I saw a Turian walking around them in a figure 8 pattern. Then I thought that maybe it was a portion of the game that I would be at later and it was just hidden poorly. But I later learned that these were in fact Doom/Duke 3D style JPEG Sprites. And you can glitch yourself down to them.
The fuel system was a nagging annoyance in Mass Effect 2, now it drains even faster then before. I'm sure there is an actual reason for this, but perhaps some obtainable ship upgrades to negate this annoyance would be nice.
While the return of grenades is nice, removing heavy weapons as an option and making them random finds seems to be, well, asinine. They should be an option as they were before since you can buy all the cool armors you did or didn't have before, and all the other neat weaponry and upgrades. Besides, making them random finds while interesting in one sense, excessively limits their usefulness.
As noted by my one friend, the characters no longer say anything in battle. They used to say things all the time throughout Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, which gave them interesting character and immersion. That is sorely lacking here in ME3.
This whole thing with Tali's face, both the photo and lack of reveal. Honestly, I don't understand why it was handled this way. But it was a poor choice at best. I have been around plenty of games that have a dedicated modder fan-base that could and or would make a proper head in a day to a week tops. So, for the use of a very poorly photo-shopped stock photo to be employed and nothing more, I do not understand.
The mission journal is quite lacking too, being quite vague and at this point should probably come with some kind of way point system. Especially for those times when you have to take an object to one of the hundreds of near identical Volus's,Asari's,Humans, or Salarians on the Citadel.
Naturally, the multiplayer while good needs work. There are many bugs in it. I'm sure they will be addressed or have been mentioned. But it really sets the tone when the first time you go to play with a friend, you play the same setting as the demo, that being Fire-base White and Cerberus troops. And watch as he runs up a ramp and the game locks his entire console up. But consistently we have had problems. I have lost character levels, enemies have not spawned when they should making the match unplayable, they have gotten stuck in the ground and air. Powers will refuse to activate when told to, even though they are ready to use. And the spawn rates tend to be quite insane, with players being nearly always surrounded before they know it. Not because they get flanked mind you. But because the enemies simply spawn right behind them.
As for the ending, yes, as I said previously, this needs expanded upon. As it stands, it is not enough to satisfy the entire fan-base. It does not need to be replaced, it never needed to be replaced. What it needs is to merely be expanded upon. With more endings implemented to satisfy the overall consumer-base. Some people want their Shepard defeating the Reapers but not at the perceived cost of the galaxies, some want the Reapers to eradicate everything. Some want what is there already. That is very clear.
And that is where the current Ending is a jump off point that can be expanded upon, more game can be put in so it doesn't end there unless people choose it to. As many games in the past have done, the effort you put in is the ending you get.
For example, and this is MY notion for a "heroic" way to go. And this all hinges on an expansion mind you. During the encounter with TIM, if Shepard's EMS is high enough, he gains another option. To shoot himself instead of Anderson. And the player takes control of Anderson, who instead confronts the Catalyst. And faced with the decision's at hand. If you choose the "Destroy" Option, it all fades to black and Shepard himself wakes up in the rubble in London. Turning that situation into a dream and an attempt by the Reapers to indoctrinate Shepard when he is at his weakest. With no friends to snap him out of it or any of that. The point of switching the roles would be that Anderson reflects his values and resolve. And Shepard having "killed" himself would have actually killed the part of him that the Reapers and TIM have access to. And thus from there, the story can continue on to the final battle once wounds are healed.
I rather envisioned the Reapers being originally like the Geth that grew out of control, and centralized their AI into a plain of existence that is not normally accessible to other beings. Such as subspace. Thus the Crucible is the access point, and would require a Reaper core to activate. And they are getting conflicting orders thus malfunctioning. They are separate but connected. And so long as Reaper Prime is intact, they can't truly be stopped. But once the crucible is active. Shepard and the crew could access this place. Face the Reaper Prime, and beat it down with the aid of all surviving major cast members showing up such as fan favorites, but also representatives from their respective races. As he did work to unite them. And upon destruction of the Reaper Prime, the Reapers cease functioning. And from there a heroic ending can be cobbled together with exposition on what became of everything.
But that is MY NOTION. I once again state that the current ending is perfect for a jump off point to include other endings that suit the consumer-base without alienating the ones who enjoy the current ending. I merely state my notion as an example because of that fact. It can be done in many different ways, and it opens up possibilities. And surely you at Bioware can see that. If money is involved or not on this, I don't think that really matters. I think making a good product that sells and draws a crowd that will keep coming back instead of just being resentful and angry is more important.
#753
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:45
Nephilym83
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- Members
- 29 messages
Wow. They wanted constructive feedback, and I think they've already got more than they probably bargained for. There are so many excellent points being made here and followed up with some incredible ideas. Hats off to you, my fellow Mass Effect fans. Keep up the good work, and most importantly... HOLD THE LINE!
#754
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:45
Valah79
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- 85 messages
1. Less speculation and a more clear explanation of what the different endings entail. What's the aftermath of my choice, and what does each choice mean? No space magic please.
2. Different ending videos for the different endings.
3. Ending mission should be seeded with lots of cut scenes showing the fighting on the ground and in the air, very much like the way we got to see the space battle in ME 1 while we were progressing through the Citadel in the final battle.
4. Some action on the Citadel, or some explanation of what happened to all the people. I spent a lot of time getting all these Citadel Defense war assets, how did that impact the final battle, beyond adding to my EMS score. In fact as much detail as possible in regards to the different War assets showing up in the end mission would be great. Obviously practical limitations allowing.
5. A good ending with LI would be nice, but if that goes against the artistic vision of the team, which I do actually respect, perhaps some closure or last minute dialogue before Shepard dies or some such. "I love you Liara, I wish we could have been together, yadda yadda" Connection Ends. Call me sappy like that
.
And thanks for listening and putting up with what must be a really stressful time right now. We really do hope to reach a consensus and get a good kick ass ending, so we can get back to supporting a gaming company we all love so much. We wouldn't be so upset if we didn't.
2. Different ending videos for the different endings.
3. Ending mission should be seeded with lots of cut scenes showing the fighting on the ground and in the air, very much like the way we got to see the space battle in ME 1 while we were progressing through the Citadel in the final battle.
4. Some action on the Citadel, or some explanation of what happened to all the people. I spent a lot of time getting all these Citadel Defense war assets, how did that impact the final battle, beyond adding to my EMS score. In fact as much detail as possible in regards to the different War assets showing up in the end mission would be great. Obviously practical limitations allowing.
5. A good ending with LI would be nice, but if that goes against the artistic vision of the team, which I do actually respect, perhaps some closure or last minute dialogue before Shepard dies or some such. "I love you Liara, I wish we could have been together, yadda yadda" Connection Ends. Call me sappy like that
.And thanks for listening and putting up with what must be a really stressful time right now. We really do hope to reach a consensus and get a good kick ass ending, so we can get back to supporting a gaming company we all love so much. We wouldn't be so upset if we didn't.
#755
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:46
Darknessfalls23
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- 179 messages
I been thinking about, the people that want Shepard to live versus the people that are fine with Shepard dying, I think you could have a paragon option to save prevent from shooting Anderson but it will lead to your own death instead Then getting rid of the Star child and three magical choices ending because that's what bothers most of us.
#756
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:46
BobTheAndroid
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- 139 messages
I would like the weapon holster option to be back.
I would like a proper helmet toggle for the DLC armors (Collector armor etc.).
And I would like a better ending that is bittersweet but makes sense. For example no Mass Relay explosions that would mean the races are marooned in there current systems. Which means they will run out of resources, food etc.
No Battlestar Galactica serie final ending for my crewmates.
I would like a proper helmet toggle for the DLC armors (Collector armor etc.).
And I would like a better ending that is bittersweet but makes sense. For example no Mass Relay explosions that would mean the races are marooned in there current systems. Which means they will run out of resources, food etc.
No Battlestar Galactica serie final ending for my crewmates.
#757
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:46
IsleySilverlord
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- 246 messages
1. I hate the current endings because they don't make any sense. As you can see in almost all the post and forums we would like our choices to actually have any impact, therefore having (for example) :** Good ending (hard to get, Love Interest included) **Neutral ending: not too good not too bad. **Bad ending (everything destroyed, chaos, worst you can
Come out with)
2. After 5 years, I need to know what happens to my squad, romance, and universe in general. No, I can't be told to use my imagination, that's kind of an insult after all these years.
3.We like to feel our choices matters. We can win, we can lose : It depends on what we've done (it should be like that) .
4. Coherence, drop "space magic", PLEASE, Skip Matrix.
Come out with)
2. After 5 years, I need to know what happens to my squad, romance, and universe in general. No, I can't be told to use my imagination, that's kind of an insult after all these years.
3.We like to feel our choices matters. We can win, we can lose : It depends on what we've done (it should be like that) .
4. Coherence, drop "space magic", PLEASE, Skip Matrix.
#758
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:46
bellabri287
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- 72 messages
I would like an attainable happy ending and an epilogue of state of galaxy and people/races you helped. Do not make this only Paragon attainable. I think endings can be Para/Reneg applicable, just have it based on reputation and the word choice is only determined by Para/Reneg? I'm not saying all endings should be happy, just a couple.
My Paragon FemShep promised Kaidan she would be with him again, I need to keep my promise!
Do not require MP to attain any specific ending. I don't have Gold and am not good at MP, I shouldn't be punished for this.
Please get rid of the Star Child/Harbinger ghost and 3 choices, none of that made any sense.
My Paragon FemShep promised Kaidan she would be with him again, I need to keep my promise!
Do not require MP to attain any specific ending. I don't have Gold and am not good at MP, I shouldn't be punished for this.
Please get rid of the Star Child/Harbinger ghost and 3 choices, none of that made any sense.
#759
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:46
Sheyin
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- Members
- 14 messages
Like the majority, loved everything from the story/gameplay/even reaper tag up until the ending, and others have summed up their thoughts more eloquently than I have...
-Totally support the indoctrination theory - would like to see "the real story" come out - DLC/expansion/or even something with newgame + like Chrono Cross and its multiple ending points would be awesome and add to replay value...
-A better explanation of what the scene with the Normandy was supposed to be/mean/where/what/etc and why the people you presumed dead just walked off alive and unhurt, possibly light years away....
-Would like to know the fate of all these races, with a tenuous peace, now the majority of which are scattered perhaps permanently, or better yet, stuck at Earth with no way (or very long/difficult) to get home...
-Better explanation of the Reapers' motives/purpose, like what exactly do they need with organics and why (I've been reading up on what was said in prior games, and then the explanation given to us by ghost kid just doesn't seem to make sense. Of course, it is probably a lie, but if that were the case, an explanation is still needed!)
-If the ending wasn't in shep's head, then what does the synthesis option mean for the living? It felt like it was opening a whole new plot/possibilities but short of the brief graphical effect, doesn't really tell you that your sacrifice did anything, except maybe turn every sentient creature into some sort of hybrid/cyborg/reaper.
-Did all the reapers, even the organic-based monstrosities, really go boom? You kind of only see the big mechanical destroyers blow up or leave, but it'd be amusing (and rather twisted) if it didn't affect the minions / shep "forgot" to order them to jump off a cliff or something... Plus wouldn't the reapers be primarily software like the geth? Everyone building the Crucible assumed it was some sort of mega-cannon you point at reapers to make them go boom, but I'm not quite sure how the mysterious beam of light worked.
-Some sort of reward for people who made it to 100% readiness/went through newgame+, etc reflected as some sort of happier ending would be nice - ex. being able to have some sort of family with your LI as opposed to the "just survived and maybe reunited with your LI in a decade or so" implied ending...
Wishful thinking (just random thoughts/suggestions, not really having to do with issues with the ending)
-Cross-platform multiplayer - I suspect there are other issues preventing this, but it *sucks* when everyone you know picked up a copy for a different gaming platform... either that or give console players pc access or something, sort of like Portal 2? did
-Wish for an improvement on sniper rifles in multi to compensate for no slowdown... improved fire rate/reload time, if you're not landing headshots or even shots in general, it feels like you're crippling the team....
-An option to shoot the Catalyst for the real ending (it would totally never fly with EA, and parental watchdogs would go nuts, but who didn't reload the game and unload the gun into him after watching the ending the first time around?)
-Totally support the indoctrination theory - would like to see "the real story" come out - DLC/expansion/or even something with newgame + like Chrono Cross and its multiple ending points would be awesome and add to replay value...
-A better explanation of what the scene with the Normandy was supposed to be/mean/where/what/etc and why the people you presumed dead just walked off alive and unhurt, possibly light years away....
-Would like to know the fate of all these races, with a tenuous peace, now the majority of which are scattered perhaps permanently, or better yet, stuck at Earth with no way (or very long/difficult) to get home...
-Better explanation of the Reapers' motives/purpose, like what exactly do they need with organics and why (I've been reading up on what was said in prior games, and then the explanation given to us by ghost kid just doesn't seem to make sense. Of course, it is probably a lie, but if that were the case, an explanation is still needed!)
-If the ending wasn't in shep's head, then what does the synthesis option mean for the living? It felt like it was opening a whole new plot/possibilities but short of the brief graphical effect, doesn't really tell you that your sacrifice did anything, except maybe turn every sentient creature into some sort of hybrid/cyborg/reaper.
-Did all the reapers, even the organic-based monstrosities, really go boom? You kind of only see the big mechanical destroyers blow up or leave, but it'd be amusing (and rather twisted) if it didn't affect the minions / shep "forgot" to order them to jump off a cliff or something... Plus wouldn't the reapers be primarily software like the geth? Everyone building the Crucible assumed it was some sort of mega-cannon you point at reapers to make them go boom, but I'm not quite sure how the mysterious beam of light worked.
-Some sort of reward for people who made it to 100% readiness/went through newgame+, etc reflected as some sort of happier ending would be nice - ex. being able to have some sort of family with your LI as opposed to the "just survived and maybe reunited with your LI in a decade or so" implied ending...
Wishful thinking (just random thoughts/suggestions, not really having to do with issues with the ending)
-Cross-platform multiplayer - I suspect there are other issues preventing this, but it *sucks* when everyone you know picked up a copy for a different gaming platform... either that or give console players pc access or something, sort of like Portal 2? did
-Wish for an improvement on sniper rifles in multi to compensate for no slowdown... improved fire rate/reload time, if you're not landing headshots or even shots in general, it feels like you're crippling the team....
-An option to shoot the Catalyst for the real ending (it would totally never fly with EA, and parental watchdogs would go nuts, but who didn't reload the game and unload the gun into him after watching the ending the first time around?)
Modifié par Sheyin, 17 mars 2012 - 05:47 .
#760
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:47
Blackmind1
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Darknessfalls23 wrote...
I been thinking about, the people that want Shepard to live versus the people that are fine with Shepard dying, I think you could have a paragon option to save prevent from shooting Anderson but it will lead to your own death instead Then getting rid of the Star child and three magical choices ending because that's what bothers most of us.
I liked the star child and the philosophical questions he brought up. It just felt a little out of place.
#761
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:47
8666737
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I would recommend:
In the crucible - create the ability to reject the star child or destroy that AI to allow the galaxy, synthetics + organics to decide their own fate. Perhaps some prothean tech that you acquired in ME2 like that weird reflective metal ball thing in one of the DLC. You've already shown in quarians vs geth and with EDI that co-existence is possible. Like any evolutionary process either you work together or die. The thing that had me pissed was the answer was forced on you which is completely against the grain of a rpg.
Also It's never explained how the ILM appears on the citadel, in the collectors edition artwork their is actually a scene showing Cerberus troops dead in the trench you arrive on, showing how he entered the citadel, little things like that explain alot. So you have something that was already designed and have artwork for, but never made it into final production, it's pages 62+63 of the Art of Mass Effect.pdf included in the bonus materials.
The other logic direction is that the crucible superweapon doesn’t completely destroy the reapers, just weakens them enough for conventional forces to really make a dent out of them. You then have the ability to show shepard helping to take system by system back from reaper control, and then gaining a larger force to push against the reaper remenants.
All in all, I would like to see the ME universe remain and the mass relays not get destroyed.
Think of all the sequels that can be made showing re-building each race and challenges they face.
And for god-sake can I please just have a cut-scene of me + Liara and some blue babies on a beach.
In the crucible - create the ability to reject the star child or destroy that AI to allow the galaxy, synthetics + organics to decide their own fate. Perhaps some prothean tech that you acquired in ME2 like that weird reflective metal ball thing in one of the DLC. You've already shown in quarians vs geth and with EDI that co-existence is possible. Like any evolutionary process either you work together or die. The thing that had me pissed was the answer was forced on you which is completely against the grain of a rpg.
Also It's never explained how the ILM appears on the citadel, in the collectors edition artwork their is actually a scene showing Cerberus troops dead in the trench you arrive on, showing how he entered the citadel, little things like that explain alot. So you have something that was already designed and have artwork for, but never made it into final production, it's pages 62+63 of the Art of Mass Effect.pdf included in the bonus materials.
The other logic direction is that the crucible superweapon doesn’t completely destroy the reapers, just weakens them enough for conventional forces to really make a dent out of them. You then have the ability to show shepard helping to take system by system back from reaper control, and then gaining a larger force to push against the reaper remenants.
All in all, I would like to see the ME universe remain and the mass relays not get destroyed.
Think of all the sequels that can be made showing re-building each race and challenges they face.
And for god-sake can I please just have a cut-scene of me + Liara and some blue babies on a beach.
#762
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:48
Joy Sauce
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With the countless other posts I doubt this one will get noticed, but here's hoping it does.
Changes for the Ending:
1. Eliminate the starchild, virtually nobody likes him. At the very least, make the scenes involving him a dream-sequence a la the indoctrination theory, Shepard already had dreams about that kid anyways, might as well make that scene one too. The starchild simply doesn't make sense, there is no logic to the starchild's "solution" and the scene doesn't conform to the tone or main themes of the rest of the game, and opens way too many plot-holes. A deus ex machina ending is an unoriginal, cheap way to end the game and is completely inappropriate for ME.
2. Give us a reason to play the game multiple times. We were told to expect 16 different endings, we got ONE. We want a spectrum, VASTLY different endings, not slightly different endings. ME is a game people play multiple run-throughs of, there are a lot of people who intentionally played a game of ME2 "badly" just so they could see the ending where everyone including Shepard dies. With only one ending people have no reason to play again or import any of their other Shepards that they put hours of energy into. We want good endings and bad endings and bittersweet endings, and everything in between.
3. Tone of the ending. It was soooo bleak. The endings ME1 and ME2 left you with a triumphant, exhilarated feeling, a feeling of accomplishment. ME3's ending leaves you feeling like you accomplished nothing, like the saga was one big wasted effort, it's not as Casey Hudson put it "bittersweet" it's just bitter, and we feel betrayed. Even if we get a "bad" ending we should still be left with a sense of hope for the people and cultures of the ME universe (the Stargazer scene fails to do this, it's too ambiguous and since we don't know the characters in the scene, we have no feelings associated with them). The ending of a game is supposed to be a reward for playing, but this ending is a punishment.
4. A final boss battle, it may seem cliche or "video-gamey" but you need a boss battle at the end, it's like the final exam, you need to pass it before you can graduate. The last hurdle in a video game should not be a conversation. And it should be a more challenging, multi-tiered and epic boss battle than Saren or the Reaper-baby from the previous MEs. Let us fight the scrapped TIM-brute monster, then fight Harbinger & the Reapers (using the war assets we spent the whole game collecting). It would be epic, that's what we want in the final moments of a game before the epilogue and credits. Finally, (and this is just personal opinion), not including a final boss strikes me more as laziness on the developers parts rather than artistic vision.
5. Speaking of epilogues, GIVE US ONE. Crashing the Normandy on Gilligan's planet doesn't count. Hardcore fans have spent hundreds of hours (or more for those of us who've played ME1/2 twice or more), bonding with and getting to know all the characters, as well as reading codex entries and learning everything we can about the world of ME. Even minor, non-squadmate characters have fans, and we want to know what happens to these people, we don't just want to be left making vague guesses about what happens to the galaxy as a whole.
6. Make what war assets we collected have an actual impact on how the ending unfolds. We want to see not just the warships in action, we want to see Blue Suns, Eclipse and Blood Pack mercs fighting on our side, we want to see Krogans riding Kakliosaurs, we want to see Elcor with back-mounted heavy weapons all taking down reapers. It would also improve the ending immensely by allowing us the ability to use the war assets, like how we assigned squadmates specific tasks at the end of ME2. Shepard would activate the crucible (for real this time, without starchild), and then guide the final battle against the reapers. Well made choices would have positive results on the final battle, poorly made choices would have negative consequences. It would give players a feeling of control over Shepard and the galaxy's destiny too, something which was completely nonexistent in the original ending.
7. Take the destruction of the mass relays out completely. Doing this effectively destroys the ME universe, and that's the last thing we want. The ME universe is a rich, vibrant creation, we want it to continue (at least in our imaginations) after the final game. The mass relays destruction just taints everything.
Brainstorming for possible endings:
1. Fix the glitches. Let us import our faces. Give us our pre-order weapon bonuses.
2. Improve the journal, make it more like ME1/2, because this one is a mess. Separate main missions from side missions and give us actual quest updates to make it easier to keep track of things.
3. Auto-dialog, characters can say the same things, and we'll survive without the dialog wheel, but give us the cinematic style close ups on their faces while they do it, we enjoy that a lot more than you realize.
4. 30 hours is too short. This game needs bulking up, more side missions, and some more interesting ones too, not just defeat waves of enemies and return to the Normandy. And more of the optional side missions which lead to more side missions like in the first two games. When you do a side mission in this game, you get your war asset and never think of it again.
5. Something equivalent to loyalty missions, let us bond with our squadmates like we did in ME2. Help Kaidan track down his old squad. Help Garrus get his family out of Palaven. Help Liara & Feron with some kind of Shadow Broker specific thing. Stuff like that.
6. Give ME2 specific characters a better send off. Give us one last mission with each of them as a temporary squadmate. Like second loyalty missions with them even though they ultimately won't join you on the Normandy. Help Jack save her students from some failed mission. Help Zaeed take back the Blue Suns. Help Kasumi on one last heist. Stuff like that.
7. I'd like to see DLC for one or two more Hub worlds. Help Aria take back Omega and get to explore the place and do a bunch of new fetch quests.
8. Show us maskless Quarians already (make actual character models don't just do a quickie photoshop). Female Turians might be nice too, but I guess that's too much to ask after 3 games of them being conspicuously absent without explanation.
I guess that's all I can think of for now, sorry for the wall of text, but I feel all of this is important to me and I'm sure there are some like-minded individuals out there. And if you really are listening and really are planning changes, I hope I gave some good ideas for them.
Changes for the Ending:
1. Eliminate the starchild, virtually nobody likes him. At the very least, make the scenes involving him a dream-sequence a la the indoctrination theory, Shepard already had dreams about that kid anyways, might as well make that scene one too. The starchild simply doesn't make sense, there is no logic to the starchild's "solution" and the scene doesn't conform to the tone or main themes of the rest of the game, and opens way too many plot-holes. A deus ex machina ending is an unoriginal, cheap way to end the game and is completely inappropriate for ME.
2. Give us a reason to play the game multiple times. We were told to expect 16 different endings, we got ONE. We want a spectrum, VASTLY different endings, not slightly different endings. ME is a game people play multiple run-throughs of, there are a lot of people who intentionally played a game of ME2 "badly" just so they could see the ending where everyone including Shepard dies. With only one ending people have no reason to play again or import any of their other Shepards that they put hours of energy into. We want good endings and bad endings and bittersweet endings, and everything in between.
3. Tone of the ending. It was soooo bleak. The endings ME1 and ME2 left you with a triumphant, exhilarated feeling, a feeling of accomplishment. ME3's ending leaves you feeling like you accomplished nothing, like the saga was one big wasted effort, it's not as Casey Hudson put it "bittersweet" it's just bitter, and we feel betrayed. Even if we get a "bad" ending we should still be left with a sense of hope for the people and cultures of the ME universe (the Stargazer scene fails to do this, it's too ambiguous and since we don't know the characters in the scene, we have no feelings associated with them). The ending of a game is supposed to be a reward for playing, but this ending is a punishment.
4. A final boss battle, it may seem cliche or "video-gamey" but you need a boss battle at the end, it's like the final exam, you need to pass it before you can graduate. The last hurdle in a video game should not be a conversation. And it should be a more challenging, multi-tiered and epic boss battle than Saren or the Reaper-baby from the previous MEs. Let us fight the scrapped TIM-brute monster, then fight Harbinger & the Reapers (using the war assets we spent the whole game collecting). It would be epic, that's what we want in the final moments of a game before the epilogue and credits. Finally, (and this is just personal opinion), not including a final boss strikes me more as laziness on the developers parts rather than artistic vision.
5. Speaking of epilogues, GIVE US ONE. Crashing the Normandy on Gilligan's planet doesn't count. Hardcore fans have spent hundreds of hours (or more for those of us who've played ME1/2 twice or more), bonding with and getting to know all the characters, as well as reading codex entries and learning everything we can about the world of ME. Even minor, non-squadmate characters have fans, and we want to know what happens to these people, we don't just want to be left making vague guesses about what happens to the galaxy as a whole.
6. Make what war assets we collected have an actual impact on how the ending unfolds. We want to see not just the warships in action, we want to see Blue Suns, Eclipse and Blood Pack mercs fighting on our side, we want to see Krogans riding Kakliosaurs, we want to see Elcor with back-mounted heavy weapons all taking down reapers. It would also improve the ending immensely by allowing us the ability to use the war assets, like how we assigned squadmates specific tasks at the end of ME2. Shepard would activate the crucible (for real this time, without starchild), and then guide the final battle against the reapers. Well made choices would have positive results on the final battle, poorly made choices would have negative consequences. It would give players a feeling of control over Shepard and the galaxy's destiny too, something which was completely nonexistent in the original ending.
7. Take the destruction of the mass relays out completely. Doing this effectively destroys the ME universe, and that's the last thing we want. The ME universe is a rich, vibrant creation, we want it to continue (at least in our imaginations) after the final game. The mass relays destruction just taints everything.
Brainstorming for possible endings:
- The Bittersweet ending (the canon ending): Anderson dies (saving Shepard from TIM?), Shepard sacrifices him/herself in order to stop the reapers. Heavy casualties during the final battle, citadel heavily damaged, most warships destroyed, but mass relays remain intact, allowing the galaxy to pick up the pieces and look forward to a future free of the reaper threat.
- The Reapers Win ending: Shepard fails to activate the crucible, the last stand armada is wiped out, epilogue shows reapers harvesting the galaxy, system by system. Credits roll, some aliens we've never seen before are shown activating Liara's time capsule, giving us hope for the next cycle.
- The Happily Ever After ending (pure paragon ending - would be hard to get, ME2 character import necessary to reward long-term fans, 99-100% war assets/paragon score would be needed and/or hardcore or higher difficulty and a perfectly executed final battle with no mistakes): Shepard survives, all squadmates and characters we know by name (except TIM) survive, reapers are undeniably destroyed, minimal technological collateral damage (neither citadel or mass relays destroyed in other words) epilogue shows the people of the galaxy celebrating and continuing to work together to create a brighter future. This ending would also allow you to continue playing (like in ME2) after the credits roll, so you can explore the Normandy/Citadel, talk to people getting all kinds of thanks and praise and play any new DLC that comes out without having to start over.
- The Emperor Shepard ending (pure renegade ending - hard to get in the same way as the paragon ending): Shepard pulls an Illusive man, taking control of the reapers and using their power and technology to take over the galaxy. Epilogue shows dissenters being put to death/rendered into husks. People who knew Shepard are shown trying to fight against him/her or with the glowing blue eyes - indoctrinated into willing followers (maybe this one's a little far-fetched, but it would be a cool option to have).
- Variations on these. Some where certain characters live/die. Maybe one where Shepard takes control of the reapers, but rather than use them for evil, simply sends them away implying that they'll be back in another 50K years. One where the reapers seem to be destroyed but after the credits we cut to a close up of a reaper reactivating itself. There was so much potential for interesting and varied endings, I was disappointed to see that potential so wasted.
1. Fix the glitches. Let us import our faces. Give us our pre-order weapon bonuses.
2. Improve the journal, make it more like ME1/2, because this one is a mess. Separate main missions from side missions and give us actual quest updates to make it easier to keep track of things.
3. Auto-dialog, characters can say the same things, and we'll survive without the dialog wheel, but give us the cinematic style close ups on their faces while they do it, we enjoy that a lot more than you realize.
4. 30 hours is too short. This game needs bulking up, more side missions, and some more interesting ones too, not just defeat waves of enemies and return to the Normandy. And more of the optional side missions which lead to more side missions like in the first two games. When you do a side mission in this game, you get your war asset and never think of it again.
5. Something equivalent to loyalty missions, let us bond with our squadmates like we did in ME2. Help Kaidan track down his old squad. Help Garrus get his family out of Palaven. Help Liara & Feron with some kind of Shadow Broker specific thing. Stuff like that.
6. Give ME2 specific characters a better send off. Give us one last mission with each of them as a temporary squadmate. Like second loyalty missions with them even though they ultimately won't join you on the Normandy. Help Jack save her students from some failed mission. Help Zaeed take back the Blue Suns. Help Kasumi on one last heist. Stuff like that.
7. I'd like to see DLC for one or two more Hub worlds. Help Aria take back Omega and get to explore the place and do a bunch of new fetch quests.
8. Show us maskless Quarians already (make actual character models don't just do a quickie photoshop). Female Turians might be nice too, but I guess that's too much to ask after 3 games of them being conspicuously absent without explanation.
I guess that's all I can think of for now, sorry for the wall of text, but I feel all of this is important to me and I'm sure there are some like-minded individuals out there. And if you really are listening and really are planning changes, I hope I gave some good ideas for them.
Modifié par Joy Sauce, 17 mars 2012 - 07:17 .
#763
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:48
Darth Krytie
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- Members
- 2 128 messages
1. The endings didn't work for me because they were too similar to each other. I would have preferred there to be more diversity, even if it meant Ending A was Shepard winning, Ending B was Shepard losing and Ending C was Shepard making a devil's bargin.
2. I wanted some closure with my past and present Squaddies. I wanted to know who lived/died, what they ended up doing.
3. I wanted some sense of what the galaxy did from there. What state where they in? X civ started trying to work around the destruction of the Relays. Or due to the destruction of the Relays, everybody was indeed dead. Something to indicate where the end of the war left everyone.
4. I wanted one ending to give my Shepard a chance to ride off into the sunset with Garrus (or LI). Even if it meant playing it three times or something. I want GarrBear (or LI) and Shep to make genetically impossible children.
5. For future content, Take Back Omega! Would be excellent. I'd love a "we're stranded on this planet" one. Where everyone has to fight new enemies, find new allies, and try to either fix the ship or make a colony. I'd kill for a Date Night dlc, where Shepard and Garrus (or LI) go off on a date and it ends up being some sort of disaster or a fight or a kidnapping and they end up having to save someone or something and seal it off with a bed time scene.
I'd love something with Captain Bailey. Because he was amazing. Or the chance to play as Blasto and his Elcor Buddy cop. That would be fantastic.
2. I wanted some closure with my past and present Squaddies. I wanted to know who lived/died, what they ended up doing.
3. I wanted some sense of what the galaxy did from there. What state where they in? X civ started trying to work around the destruction of the Relays. Or due to the destruction of the Relays, everybody was indeed dead. Something to indicate where the end of the war left everyone.
4. I wanted one ending to give my Shepard a chance to ride off into the sunset with Garrus (or LI). Even if it meant playing it three times or something. I want GarrBear (or LI) and Shep to make genetically impossible children.
5. For future content, Take Back Omega! Would be excellent. I'd love a "we're stranded on this planet" one. Where everyone has to fight new enemies, find new allies, and try to either fix the ship or make a colony. I'd kill for a Date Night dlc, where Shepard and Garrus (or LI) go off on a date and it ends up being some sort of disaster or a fight or a kidnapping and they end up having to save someone or something and seal it off with a bed time scene.
I'd love something with Captain Bailey. Because he was amazing. Or the chance to play as Blasto and his Elcor Buddy cop. That would be fantastic.
Modifié par Darth Krytie, 17 mars 2012 - 05:51 .
#764
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:49
wrdnshprd
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- Members
- 624 messages
as others have said, thanks for this sticky.
also, up until the last 10 minutes or so, this game was the best i have ever played. its really a crowning achievement..
however, the endings just ruin it.
and really it comes down to this thread:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886
just give us what you promised in the first place.
also, you want us to see that you guys are taking our feedback seriously.. give away the ending DLC.. i guarantee if you do that, all the good will you have lost will be regained.
also, up until the last 10 minutes or so, this game was the best i have ever played. its really a crowning achievement..
however, the endings just ruin it.
and really it comes down to this thread:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886
just give us what you promised in the first place.
also, you want us to see that you guys are taking our feedback seriously.. give away the ending DLC.. i guarantee if you do that, all the good will you have lost will be regained.
Modifié par wrdnshprd, 17 mars 2012 - 05:51 .
#765
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:50
Debi-Tage
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- Members
- 525 messages
[quote]Jessica Merizan wrote...
Saying "this blows" helps no one.
Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote]Cirreus wrote...
If you need a blow by blow on the ending's failure, read this guy’s post ... also pay him whatever amount of money he asks to review your work. [/b]social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779
[/quote]
Wow, that is an amazing analysis and completely sums it up!!
Saying "this blows" helps no one.
Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote]Cirreus wrote...
If you need a blow by blow on the ending's failure, read this guy’s post ... also pay him whatever amount of money he asks to review your work. [/b]social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779
[/quote]
Wow, that is an amazing analysis and completely sums it up!!
Modifié par Debi-Tage, 17 mars 2012 - 05:51 .
#766
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:50
magikbbg
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- Members
- 298 messages
Ok if fan feedback is really considered here’s my feedback…
First… I started playing because I wanted another game from
Bioware after playing Dragon Age Origins (I wasn’t aware Bioware also made
Baldur’s Gate which I enjoyed when I was little). I really enjoyed Mass Effect
like no other game I’ve ever played; it was one of the best single player game’s
I’ve ever played not because of gameplay but the story behind it all. Space
opera was never my thing, it still isn’t, but Mass Effect has a special place
in my heart.
Really Awesome:
Dialogue - Almost all of the Dialogue was really… epic. The
game was full of really difficult choice, sometimes I’d have to really think
hard about it – like when Mordin had to go up there and the geth/quarian issue.
Some moments touched me like Liara’s Project and Garrus shooting the bottles
with you. It was one of the first games where I actually felt like the people
in the game we’re really my friends and that we’ve developed a relationship
over the years together. Some friends came, some went, and some died but they
were all my friends. The way you guys create relationships is amazing keep it
up. Also the Prothean’s knowledge on Asari’s past, just brilliant please give
us more!
Romance - Romantic relationships are always super nice the
way Bioware handles it. It’s never like cheesy lines straight to a sex scene.
There is subtly and a lot of cute flirting which I think is really nice. I wish
there was more of a deeper relationship building in the game though, like a
mission to save your Love Interest…
GUI - Easy to understand GUI/Leveling scheme, I think every
game you guys make it better. I do enjoy super complicated number crunching
type items, where x = z/y * 0.0032 (number of procs), type of things but I do
enjoy a much easier Interface because to me Mass Effect is about the story. But
I do enjoy ME3’s layout the most and the fights are nice. I do think more
variations on bad guys would be nicer, just difference types of low class bad
guys, maybe rouge Asari, angry Batarians, maybe vorcha, evil salarains, or what
not – just an idea.
Codex – You guys at Bioware outdone yourselves with the
codex, the fully voiced was a nice touch (would’ve been nice in Mark Meer’s
voice or some British guys voice lol). The world is so deep and there are
subtle hints at the greater workings of the Mass Effect world in cut scenes,
good job, let’s keep that up for future games.
Other – Music was great, the scene leading up to the beam
was great, I really felt… like this was it, it was the end of the world, do or
die, now or never, I felt the weight on my shoulders, the final chat with the
team really made me sad but got me pumped up to TAKE EARTH BACK. Great writing
and music.
Marauder Shields … LOL don’t mean to poke fun but he was an
Epic End Game Boss.
Could’ve Been Better:
Gameplay – There is a lot of bugs when I first played. They
were annoying but not so bad it turned me off completely to the game. What I
mean is, in cut scenes people we’re looking all over the weirdest places…
Sometimes I’d get stuck in places which is disheartening… just seemed buggy and
not polished. Though seems a lot was fixed in the latest patch.
Planet Exploration – Great little details per planet, some
places didn’t have anything to scan but had reapers? I personally liked the
scanning for minerals thing but this was okay too; a good little mini-game.
Mini games – Where we’re most of them? I liked by-passing
this, unlocking that, decoding there, I liked all those little mini-games. It
could be added but turned off via your new story/narrative mode thing you added
(great idea by the way)
Customizations – I wish you could’ve added a way to pick up
new armor looks for your squad mates, or easy way to add fan made custom armors
with no stats. Different colors for guns too would be fun.
Everything else – All the stuff you took out from ME1 and
ME2 I don’t miss much, I hated traveling on the mako anyways….
Bad:
Ending – Nuff’ Said. …..
Though I truly hope you incorporate the Indoctrination Theory made by the
brilliant fans on BSN, it would be fun to have the fans choose the ending, I think
these guys did a lot of work and it works out well into the story. It’s fun and
would be a nice gesture in my opinion.
Epilogue – Something that provides closure would be much appreciated.
Also that grandpa and kid scene was… really creepy it gave me goosebumps.
Future:
I hope that Shepard does in fact live; I hope that his
actions do change the galaxy; I hope he will be remembered by every
civilization. I hope the story goes in a direction where Shepard’s DNA gets
saved or becomes locked in stasis because of how important he was. I hope
future DLC show PRE-END content. I hope PRE-END content adds information to the
explanation of the Star Child. I hope
that Bioware takes the game in a direction where, the reapers are destroyed but
say… Harbinger lives to go back into deep space, forms an army and returns or
the “creators” of the reapers are even scarier monsters that no one believes Shepard’s
warnings about that they’re amassing in the depths of space to take REVENGE.
Maybe take place couple hundred years later and you interact with the kids of
Garrus, Tali, present day Liara, etc. Where ME4 ME5 ME6 can become about trying
to fix the DARK ENERGY crisis while preparing for the fight against the
Creators – Afterwards true peace can be found in the universe from outside
threats. Maybe your choices now can be bad in the future, maybe Krogans go
crazy and kill Wrex and Eve and Salarians end up becoming enemies to humans
forever, or Rachini come back or… since Shepard’s dead in the future that the
future generations forget his work. I just hope this universe continues! Not through books but through interactive
video games!
Good luck Bioware, you really gotta do some Damage Control
most fan’s seem seriously angry!!!
First… I started playing because I wanted another game from
Bioware after playing Dragon Age Origins (I wasn’t aware Bioware also made
Baldur’s Gate which I enjoyed when I was little). I really enjoyed Mass Effect
like no other game I’ve ever played; it was one of the best single player game’s
I’ve ever played not because of gameplay but the story behind it all. Space
opera was never my thing, it still isn’t, but Mass Effect has a special place
in my heart.
Really Awesome:
Dialogue - Almost all of the Dialogue was really… epic. The
game was full of really difficult choice, sometimes I’d have to really think
hard about it – like when Mordin had to go up there and the geth/quarian issue.
Some moments touched me like Liara’s Project and Garrus shooting the bottles
with you. It was one of the first games where I actually felt like the people
in the game we’re really my friends and that we’ve developed a relationship
over the years together. Some friends came, some went, and some died but they
were all my friends. The way you guys create relationships is amazing keep it
up. Also the Prothean’s knowledge on Asari’s past, just brilliant please give
us more!
Romance - Romantic relationships are always super nice the
way Bioware handles it. It’s never like cheesy lines straight to a sex scene.
There is subtly and a lot of cute flirting which I think is really nice. I wish
there was more of a deeper relationship building in the game though, like a
mission to save your Love Interest…
GUI - Easy to understand GUI/Leveling scheme, I think every
game you guys make it better. I do enjoy super complicated number crunching
type items, where x = z/y * 0.0032 (number of procs), type of things but I do
enjoy a much easier Interface because to me Mass Effect is about the story. But
I do enjoy ME3’s layout the most and the fights are nice. I do think more
variations on bad guys would be nicer, just difference types of low class bad
guys, maybe rouge Asari, angry Batarians, maybe vorcha, evil salarains, or what
not – just an idea.
Codex – You guys at Bioware outdone yourselves with the
codex, the fully voiced was a nice touch (would’ve been nice in Mark Meer’s
voice or some British guys voice lol). The world is so deep and there are
subtle hints at the greater workings of the Mass Effect world in cut scenes,
good job, let’s keep that up for future games.
Other – Music was great, the scene leading up to the beam
was great, I really felt… like this was it, it was the end of the world, do or
die, now or never, I felt the weight on my shoulders, the final chat with the
team really made me sad but got me pumped up to TAKE EARTH BACK. Great writing
and music.
Marauder Shields … LOL don’t mean to poke fun but he was an
Epic End Game Boss.
Could’ve Been Better:
Gameplay – There is a lot of bugs when I first played. They
were annoying but not so bad it turned me off completely to the game. What I
mean is, in cut scenes people we’re looking all over the weirdest places…
Sometimes I’d get stuck in places which is disheartening… just seemed buggy and
not polished. Though seems a lot was fixed in the latest patch.
Planet Exploration – Great little details per planet, some
places didn’t have anything to scan but had reapers? I personally liked the
scanning for minerals thing but this was okay too; a good little mini-game.
Mini games – Where we’re most of them? I liked by-passing
this, unlocking that, decoding there, I liked all those little mini-games. It
could be added but turned off via your new story/narrative mode thing you added
(great idea by the way)
Customizations – I wish you could’ve added a way to pick up
new armor looks for your squad mates, or easy way to add fan made custom armors
with no stats. Different colors for guns too would be fun.
Everything else – All the stuff you took out from ME1 and
ME2 I don’t miss much, I hated traveling on the mako anyways….
Bad:
Ending – Nuff’ Said. …..
Though I truly hope you incorporate the Indoctrination Theory made by the
brilliant fans on BSN, it would be fun to have the fans choose the ending, I think
these guys did a lot of work and it works out well into the story. It’s fun and
would be a nice gesture in my opinion.
Epilogue – Something that provides closure would be much appreciated.
Also that grandpa and kid scene was… really creepy it gave me goosebumps.
Future:
I hope that Shepard does in fact live; I hope that his
actions do change the galaxy; I hope he will be remembered by every
civilization. I hope the story goes in a direction where Shepard’s DNA gets
saved or becomes locked in stasis because of how important he was. I hope
future DLC show PRE-END content. I hope PRE-END content adds information to the
explanation of the Star Child. I hope
that Bioware takes the game in a direction where, the reapers are destroyed but
say… Harbinger lives to go back into deep space, forms an army and returns or
the “creators” of the reapers are even scarier monsters that no one believes Shepard’s
warnings about that they’re amassing in the depths of space to take REVENGE.
Maybe take place couple hundred years later and you interact with the kids of
Garrus, Tali, present day Liara, etc. Where ME4 ME5 ME6 can become about trying
to fix the DARK ENERGY crisis while preparing for the fight against the
Creators – Afterwards true peace can be found in the universe from outside
threats. Maybe your choices now can be bad in the future, maybe Krogans go
crazy and kill Wrex and Eve and Salarians end up becoming enemies to humans
forever, or Rachini come back or… since Shepard’s dead in the future that the
future generations forget his work. I just hope this universe continues! Not through books but through interactive
video games!
Good luck Bioware, you really gotta do some Damage Control
most fan’s seem seriously angry!!!
#767
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:51
Kimai
-
- Members
- 1 messages
The vast majority of the game is wonderful, it's very much only those closing minutes where things seem to fall apart.
After thinking it over, the Tuchanka mission embodies almost perfectly what I wanted out of an ultimate ending. Wrex's survival represents the influence of the first game. Mordin and Maelon's data bring in the second game. I also had the choice to complete some side missions first to further bolster my chances. Then, within the mission I have certain choices to make, which take into account previous decisions. I can be altruistic, or I can be brutally practical. Do I save the krogan once and for all? Not really... their numbers are decimated, their culture all but erased and I have no guarantee that they won't make all the same mistakes they made before. But I have hope, based on the very concrete outcomes. Had I chosen to be ruthless about it, I would have eliminated that future variable, but at a future cost. Then, at the end, I get closure from Wrex and Eve. A nice send-off that doesn't answer every question but still leaves the path open to better things.
Tonally, that's what I wanted from the end. A sense that my previous actions mattered in a more concrete way than just a GAW number. Especially galling was that all my effort to reconcile synthetics and organics is completely irrelevant, to the point where Shepard doesn't even comment on it. Perhaps my biggest issue was the seemingly nonsensical actions of the Normandy. There desperately needed to be more explanation of where they were and why, and how the squadmates ended up back on board.
I signed up to this trilogy for an epic Space Opera, which the first games delivered. I didn't want vague, artisitic meta storytelling, I wanted actions and events I could understand. This is a game with exhaustive codeces and entries for each planet. This is a game where I look under every rock and leaf for something new. To imagine that suddenly at the very end I wanted no answers and a events that made no logical sense is just bizarre. It's a screaming left turn in the last ten minutes of a 100-hour investment.
Shepard has fought so hard and suffered SO much, even to the point of dying once already. And through her, so have I. As have the squadmates. As much as we're made to care for the fate of billions, it's THEM that I want closure for. The option, the ability to know that somehow, somewhere, they can find some peace among the ruins. THAT would be closure for me. And not through a weird, nonsensical cutscene. Something tangible. Something that makes logical sense.
What left me feeling so hollow, so deflated was the sense that no matter what you do, everyone comes to ruin. It goes so far as to taint all three games. I didn't sign up to this experience to be left feeling like this. I play games to feel like I can make a difference, to be a hero. A real sense of my effect on the ending, and a real sense of closure, of a tenuous peace for Shepard and her beloved friends would seal the deal for me. It doesn't have to be a perfect win, just a clear, logical moment of real peace among the survivors. A breath.
I think Samara put it best: "I am a ruined vessel of sorrow and regret... but I am free."
After thinking it over, the Tuchanka mission embodies almost perfectly what I wanted out of an ultimate ending. Wrex's survival represents the influence of the first game. Mordin and Maelon's data bring in the second game. I also had the choice to complete some side missions first to further bolster my chances. Then, within the mission I have certain choices to make, which take into account previous decisions. I can be altruistic, or I can be brutally practical. Do I save the krogan once and for all? Not really... their numbers are decimated, their culture all but erased and I have no guarantee that they won't make all the same mistakes they made before. But I have hope, based on the very concrete outcomes. Had I chosen to be ruthless about it, I would have eliminated that future variable, but at a future cost. Then, at the end, I get closure from Wrex and Eve. A nice send-off that doesn't answer every question but still leaves the path open to better things.
Tonally, that's what I wanted from the end. A sense that my previous actions mattered in a more concrete way than just a GAW number. Especially galling was that all my effort to reconcile synthetics and organics is completely irrelevant, to the point where Shepard doesn't even comment on it. Perhaps my biggest issue was the seemingly nonsensical actions of the Normandy. There desperately needed to be more explanation of where they were and why, and how the squadmates ended up back on board.
I signed up to this trilogy for an epic Space Opera, which the first games delivered. I didn't want vague, artisitic meta storytelling, I wanted actions and events I could understand. This is a game with exhaustive codeces and entries for each planet. This is a game where I look under every rock and leaf for something new. To imagine that suddenly at the very end I wanted no answers and a events that made no logical sense is just bizarre. It's a screaming left turn in the last ten minutes of a 100-hour investment.
Shepard has fought so hard and suffered SO much, even to the point of dying once already. And through her, so have I. As have the squadmates. As much as we're made to care for the fate of billions, it's THEM that I want closure for. The option, the ability to know that somehow, somewhere, they can find some peace among the ruins. THAT would be closure for me. And not through a weird, nonsensical cutscene. Something tangible. Something that makes logical sense.
What left me feeling so hollow, so deflated was the sense that no matter what you do, everyone comes to ruin. It goes so far as to taint all three games. I didn't sign up to this experience to be left feeling like this. I play games to feel like I can make a difference, to be a hero. A real sense of my effect on the ending, and a real sense of closure, of a tenuous peace for Shepard and her beloved friends would seal the deal for me. It doesn't have to be a perfect win, just a clear, logical moment of real peace among the survivors. A breath.
I think Samara put it best: "I am a ruined vessel of sorrow and regret... but I am free."
#768
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:51
bulldog2012
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- Members
- 254 messages
Here is my take on the situation:
I don't think you should change the endings. Hold on! They aren't good. But I think changing them completely takes something special out from the game. I'm not sure how to explain it, but I'm fairly certain you can understand my point.
I think you should ADD content to the end. I think that's a more feasible option and a good middle ground. Let's say you pick the Destroy ending. Shepard "lives". What happens? Give a little detail to what we saw. Make sure our choices matter.
For instance, you made the Quarians and Geth BFF's, but still obliterated the Geth with the Red ending. Have the Quarians say, "Shoot, they were actually cool." If you chose the Quarians and they destroyed the Geth, have them say, "We never liked them anyway." That way, you put choice back into the game and you give the much needed closure people want.
Finally, and this, is the most important factor: Show what happens to your team. If you only had time to do one thing, this is it. This has to be it.
I don't think you should change the endings. Hold on! They aren't good. But I think changing them completely takes something special out from the game. I'm not sure how to explain it, but I'm fairly certain you can understand my point.
I think you should ADD content to the end. I think that's a more feasible option and a good middle ground. Let's say you pick the Destroy ending. Shepard "lives". What happens? Give a little detail to what we saw. Make sure our choices matter.
For instance, you made the Quarians and Geth BFF's, but still obliterated the Geth with the Red ending. Have the Quarians say, "Shoot, they were actually cool." If you chose the Quarians and they destroyed the Geth, have them say, "We never liked them anyway." That way, you put choice back into the game and you give the much needed closure people want.
Finally, and this, is the most important factor: Show what happens to your team. If you only had time to do one thing, this is it. This has to be it.
#769
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:51
vir6
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- Members
- 10 messages
A difficult question is what would I change, the endings are the elephants in the room but some of the things I was let down prior to that was.
The rachni, I saved them in ME 1, talked to them in ME 2 and thought oh shi- when the big battle comes up im going to have rachni on my side, didnt happen in me2 fine im ok with that when me3 was released I was already preloaded and when I was able to I imported my me1 vet save and seen some of the key choices I made in the games "saved the rachni queen" it was right there in front of me and I could only think this is going to be great, and when I got to the rachni part of the game it was fun after I saved her again I rushed to my war console and found they are justt building things, I huge let down fine maybe then things go down they show in force and do that thing they do, after I see the push to earth no rachni no nothing, this ties into the fact that I did everyside mission collected every war asset I could from tech to fleets and I found after I beat the game once the shock of the ending was going I could only thing... what the hell happened to all the fleets I collected I seen major race ships in the final push but nothing else, no elcor no volus bombing fleet or batarians showed up for the party nothing... it was a let down to say the least, it made me feel that all the running around collecting the assets was just to jack up a number that does nothing at the end of the day sure it changes one of the "16" endings I get, but at the end of the day did it make me feel any better that the color of explosion was some how changed because I had an extra few hundred assets no.. no it didnt I would have liked to seen some of these "assets" do something other then be some footnote on a console.
The next glaring problem I have is the way romance was treated in the game, my first import was a romance with tali
it was nice to see the homeworld with tali along and save for the odd conversation or flirt had with her about said romance I couldnt help notice that... the "romance" scene happens at the same spot it did in me2 just before the great trip in to battle...really? is the only time I can have with my companion just before I may get a new hole in the head and screw over the galaxy, it just makes you feel like its the devs poor way at spreading out content when they place it in the exact same spot at the last three games. but by far the most....really... ****ing really bioware was the picture finding out its some poor stock image just makes everything feel so cheap.. I have seen better fan art, made worse only by the fact that bioware tweeted said fan art.. yeah nice job on that one.
The last thing before I get to this gem of an ending is squad members...alot of the reunions were great you meet up you say high kill lots of things then talk after and....part ways sure you see them again on the citadel and have one conversation but it just seems like your screwing previous companions in the same way you screwed most me1 companions they are footnotes thats about it its sad this is the last time I see them and its some hacky 5 min conversation before I talk to them during the final push for another hacky 3 min goodbye. it just felt like I was deprived of talking to them in any real depth it sucked.
The great ending.. Mass Effect 3 has its flaws but 99% of the game is great its a perfect ending to the series with some bad spots but nothing that makes me go "ohhh im outraged im going to write a **** thread on a bad forum talking about how bad this game is." because it wasnt bad its just those last few "10" minutes that tanks this game for me and makes it the worst ending to anything ever, and thats the tragedy of mass effect 3 the same game and writers that had mordins last moments of curing the geneophage bring me to tears and ripped my heart out because its so sad and amazing the moment was and bringing the quarians home and having them work hand in hang with the geth and brought the galaxy on the same side for the first time said "this is how the game should end" and let it go to production.
When I make my mad dash to the citadel and got hit with that beam of death the first thing I did was look for my squad "are they alive?" I thought I looked and nothing no bodies no nothing so I went on making my way to the beam and fought marauder shields and made my way up, how anderson got there before me I dont know I dont care I will accept the space magic, how TIM got there when there was no place to hide again space magic I dont care, getting TIM to shoot himself in the same way I got saren to was nice I guess I didnt really like him so fine hes dead not anderson and I are not I sat and watched the scene with anderson and thought well "its over?" ok fine not the giant battle but its emotional none the less... and then the elevator to the god child happned.
Why in gods name do I want to see more of this little brat I get it sheps all ptsd fine... but now the end of ME is a conversation with this "child".....fine what ever I can take that its a problem I can live with..thats what I thought.. the following conversation had to be the most illogical spew of bull**** I have ever heard "I created synths to kill you so you wont make synths that kill you to make room for less advanced species to thrive just to kill them in a few thousand years so they wont make synths that will kill them and make room fo-" what the **** are you screwing with me me? three games leads to this ****** poor reasoning? did I not just unite the quarians and geth? is joker not playing with usb ports after I told him go for it? did I just not unite a galaxy something that no other "cycle" has done and now im having this poor argument spoon fed to me? really? when this kid stopped talking I was at a loss, I couldnt even wrap my head around what I just heard I now have three choices nothing else can be done three bad choices where I 1 take control of the reapers 2 destory the reapers but kill the geth to. 3 join all species into one (over simplification yes but my point stands) every single ending put before me had pros and cons but the cons were far worse it wasnt the lesser of thee evils it was me being forced into something poorly written I dont care if my shep dies for the furture of the galaxys I dont want a happy ending (it would be nice to have one but not needed) I want satisfaction that what I did meant something and these endings took that away from me all roads lead to three bad endings I could have just taken random choices in all 3 games and still got to these endings, choice was thrown out the window with logic as soon as this walking plot hole from left field started to speak. so after taking this horrible ending in I made my "choice" and watched the mass relays blow up only to think "well if these are destoryed and blow up dont they take the system with them? " it happened in arrival but fine space magic strikes again and at this point im praying I walk away with something I can enjoy.. but not as my squadmates who I thought were dead walk off the normandy on a crashed planet I can only come to the conclusion im being pissed on and told its raining I load up a save and make the other "choices" and find that the rain just changes color...joy
I didnt even try importing my other sheps from me1 and me 2 the LI's and choices seemed pointless when it was ended the way it did, I dont want a happy ending I dont want a ending where shep makes the true sacrifice and the galaxys is all rainbows and sunshine, millions if not billions died in me3 its not a happy ending, I just want an ending that makes sense and doesnt solve everything with some plothole that comes out of nowhere and forces "choices" down my throat.
The rachni, I saved them in ME 1, talked to them in ME 2 and thought oh shi- when the big battle comes up im going to have rachni on my side, didnt happen in me2 fine im ok with that when me3 was released I was already preloaded and when I was able to I imported my me1 vet save and seen some of the key choices I made in the games "saved the rachni queen" it was right there in front of me and I could only think this is going to be great, and when I got to the rachni part of the game it was fun after I saved her again I rushed to my war console and found they are justt building things, I huge let down fine maybe then things go down they show in force and do that thing they do, after I see the push to earth no rachni no nothing, this ties into the fact that I did everyside mission collected every war asset I could from tech to fleets and I found after I beat the game once the shock of the ending was going I could only thing... what the hell happened to all the fleets I collected I seen major race ships in the final push but nothing else, no elcor no volus bombing fleet or batarians showed up for the party nothing... it was a let down to say the least, it made me feel that all the running around collecting the assets was just to jack up a number that does nothing at the end of the day sure it changes one of the "16" endings I get, but at the end of the day did it make me feel any better that the color of explosion was some how changed because I had an extra few hundred assets no.. no it didnt I would have liked to seen some of these "assets" do something other then be some footnote on a console.
The next glaring problem I have is the way romance was treated in the game, my first import was a romance with tali
it was nice to see the homeworld with tali along and save for the odd conversation or flirt had with her about said romance I couldnt help notice that... the "romance" scene happens at the same spot it did in me2 just before the great trip in to battle...really? is the only time I can have with my companion just before I may get a new hole in the head and screw over the galaxy, it just makes you feel like its the devs poor way at spreading out content when they place it in the exact same spot at the last three games. but by far the most....really... ****ing really bioware was the picture finding out its some poor stock image just makes everything feel so cheap.. I have seen better fan art, made worse only by the fact that bioware tweeted said fan art.. yeah nice job on that one.
The last thing before I get to this gem of an ending is squad members...alot of the reunions were great you meet up you say high kill lots of things then talk after and....part ways sure you see them again on the citadel and have one conversation but it just seems like your screwing previous companions in the same way you screwed most me1 companions they are footnotes thats about it its sad this is the last time I see them and its some hacky 5 min conversation before I talk to them during the final push for another hacky 3 min goodbye. it just felt like I was deprived of talking to them in any real depth it sucked.
The great ending.. Mass Effect 3 has its flaws but 99% of the game is great its a perfect ending to the series with some bad spots but nothing that makes me go "ohhh im outraged im going to write a **** thread on a bad forum talking about how bad this game is." because it wasnt bad its just those last few "10" minutes that tanks this game for me and makes it the worst ending to anything ever, and thats the tragedy of mass effect 3 the same game and writers that had mordins last moments of curing the geneophage bring me to tears and ripped my heart out because its so sad and amazing the moment was and bringing the quarians home and having them work hand in hang with the geth and brought the galaxy on the same side for the first time said "this is how the game should end" and let it go to production.
When I make my mad dash to the citadel and got hit with that beam of death the first thing I did was look for my squad "are they alive?" I thought I looked and nothing no bodies no nothing so I went on making my way to the beam and fought marauder shields and made my way up, how anderson got there before me I dont know I dont care I will accept the space magic, how TIM got there when there was no place to hide again space magic I dont care, getting TIM to shoot himself in the same way I got saren to was nice I guess I didnt really like him so fine hes dead not anderson and I are not I sat and watched the scene with anderson and thought well "its over?" ok fine not the giant battle but its emotional none the less... and then the elevator to the god child happned.
Why in gods name do I want to see more of this little brat I get it sheps all ptsd fine... but now the end of ME is a conversation with this "child".....fine what ever I can take that its a problem I can live with..thats what I thought.. the following conversation had to be the most illogical spew of bull**** I have ever heard "I created synths to kill you so you wont make synths that kill you to make room for less advanced species to thrive just to kill them in a few thousand years so they wont make synths that will kill them and make room fo-" what the **** are you screwing with me me? three games leads to this ****** poor reasoning? did I not just unite the quarians and geth? is joker not playing with usb ports after I told him go for it? did I just not unite a galaxy something that no other "cycle" has done and now im having this poor argument spoon fed to me? really? when this kid stopped talking I was at a loss, I couldnt even wrap my head around what I just heard I now have three choices nothing else can be done three bad choices where I 1 take control of the reapers 2 destory the reapers but kill the geth to. 3 join all species into one (over simplification yes but my point stands) every single ending put before me had pros and cons but the cons were far worse it wasnt the lesser of thee evils it was me being forced into something poorly written I dont care if my shep dies for the furture of the galaxys I dont want a happy ending (it would be nice to have one but not needed) I want satisfaction that what I did meant something and these endings took that away from me all roads lead to three bad endings I could have just taken random choices in all 3 games and still got to these endings, choice was thrown out the window with logic as soon as this walking plot hole from left field started to speak. so after taking this horrible ending in I made my "choice" and watched the mass relays blow up only to think "well if these are destoryed and blow up dont they take the system with them? " it happened in arrival but fine space magic strikes again and at this point im praying I walk away with something I can enjoy.. but not as my squadmates who I thought were dead walk off the normandy on a crashed planet I can only come to the conclusion im being pissed on and told its raining I load up a save and make the other "choices" and find that the rain just changes color...joy
I didnt even try importing my other sheps from me1 and me 2 the LI's and choices seemed pointless when it was ended the way it did, I dont want a happy ending I dont want a ending where shep makes the true sacrifice and the galaxys is all rainbows and sunshine, millions if not billions died in me3 its not a happy ending, I just want an ending that makes sense and doesnt solve everything with some plothole that comes out of nowhere and forces "choices" down my throat.
#770
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:51
movieguyabw
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- Members
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The majority of the ending is fine as it is, provided it was a "worst case scenario", and better outcomes could be achieved depending on your actions throughout the game, or your EMS rating. I understand wanting, as Casey stated, a "bitter sweet" ending, but this can be achieved without every ending involving Shepard dying, or your party being killed by Harbinger.
Here's just a suggestion:
**Worst case scenario (you have minimal EMS score)
Everything happens the same as it does already. Idea though, is that Shepard is indoctrinated, and everything after being shot by Harbinger is a hallucination. Choosing the "destroy" ending is the only way to break free of the indoctrination. Depending on if your EMS score is in the upper portion of the Worst Case Scenario range, Shepard can live - which is the same video as is shown already if Shepard lives.
What this means: Reapers win, regardless. However, in Shepard's mind, he's the hero. If he resists, he dies free of their control. If he survives, he's too badly injured to continue the push to the Citadel... but he still is alive.
**Slightly better outcome
Everything plays out the exact same way. However, after killing the Illusive Man and activating the Catalyst, it actually fires. If Anderson's alive, him and Shepard have their talk. After Anderson dies, Shepard looks out at the window, then slowly passes out.
After this, just some sort of expository scene to reveal if Shepard's alive or not, if their Love Interest is alive, what the state of the galaxy is in after the battle, and end it with Hacket saying something like "we've lost a lot of people".
Paragons and Renegades have to be factored into this, of course. But overall it's a pretty simple fix. Many people just don't like the Catalyst; partially because it's a new concept and character, partially because we don't agree with its logic. Leaving it in for an indoctrination-style ending is perfectly fine. But it makes no sense if Shepard isn't indoctrinated, and not everyone would appreciate an indoctrination ending.
**Ultimately, there *should* be a happy ending. Even if there's only 1 with slight variations here and there (such as who you romanced) This is the end of a heroe's journey, afterall. Shepard never was a tragic hero (at least not everyone's were), and making the end overly bitter doesn't work with everyone's Shepard. Keep in mind, everyone plays Commander Shepard differently.
Not to mention, life's pretty grim to begin with, and the reason most of us play videogames, is to escape the gloom of our everyday lives; not to get emotionally invested in a character, only to watch everyone they know and love killed off. I get that it's war and "people die", but Thane, Legion, and Mordin hit that concept home. We don't need anymore death than those three right there, and the story already has a taste of bitterness. We just need something sweet to counteract it. Even a happy ending will be tempered by the fact that we lost people along the way. That would be bitter sweet enough.
Here's just a suggestion:
**Worst case scenario (you have minimal EMS score)
Everything happens the same as it does already. Idea though, is that Shepard is indoctrinated, and everything after being shot by Harbinger is a hallucination. Choosing the "destroy" ending is the only way to break free of the indoctrination. Depending on if your EMS score is in the upper portion of the Worst Case Scenario range, Shepard can live - which is the same video as is shown already if Shepard lives.
What this means: Reapers win, regardless. However, in Shepard's mind, he's the hero. If he resists, he dies free of their control. If he survives, he's too badly injured to continue the push to the Citadel... but he still is alive.
**Slightly better outcome
Everything plays out the exact same way. However, after killing the Illusive Man and activating the Catalyst, it actually fires. If Anderson's alive, him and Shepard have their talk. After Anderson dies, Shepard looks out at the window, then slowly passes out.
After this, just some sort of expository scene to reveal if Shepard's alive or not, if their Love Interest is alive, what the state of the galaxy is in after the battle, and end it with Hacket saying something like "we've lost a lot of people".
Paragons and Renegades have to be factored into this, of course. But overall it's a pretty simple fix. Many people just don't like the Catalyst; partially because it's a new concept and character, partially because we don't agree with its logic. Leaving it in for an indoctrination-style ending is perfectly fine. But it makes no sense if Shepard isn't indoctrinated, and not everyone would appreciate an indoctrination ending.
**Ultimately, there *should* be a happy ending. Even if there's only 1 with slight variations here and there (such as who you romanced) This is the end of a heroe's journey, afterall. Shepard never was a tragic hero (at least not everyone's were), and making the end overly bitter doesn't work with everyone's Shepard. Keep in mind, everyone plays Commander Shepard differently.
Not to mention, life's pretty grim to begin with, and the reason most of us play videogames, is to escape the gloom of our everyday lives; not to get emotionally invested in a character, only to watch everyone they know and love killed off. I get that it's war and "people die", but Thane, Legion, and Mordin hit that concept home. We don't need anymore death than those three right there, and the story already has a taste of bitterness. We just need something sweet to counteract it. Even a happy ending will be tempered by the fact that we lost people along the way. That would be bitter sweet enough.
#771
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:51
mjh417
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- Members
- 595 messages
^THIS!!!! like wow I dont have even say much myself when others are so awesoem at saying it for me.CDHarrisUSF wrote...
I could probably go on for a while longer, but I think I've rambled enough as is.
- Shepard doesn't roll over for anyone... not for Saren... not for the Illusive Man... not for Harbinger... and certainly not for this star child. It was out of character for my Shepard to just take everything he said at face value.
- The kid is almost literally a deus ex machina. That is just lazy writing. Someone should have pushed back against that idea.
- If he realizes the cycle won't work anymore and is willing to let Shepard use the Crucible to end the cycle, why are they even bothering to fight at all? If their stated goal was to protect life and the cycle is going to end anyway, why are they continuing to kill people when they could just accept their loss and leave?
- The Crucible is treated as a MacGuffin which works via space magic. The energy required to cover the entire galaxy with a strong enough pulse to do anything breaks all sorts of laws of physics. Even a gamma-ray burst from a star collapsing into a black hole wouldn't be enough.
- For some reason, it was built to have three completely unrelated functions. Of the two which make any sense whatsoever, one of them (Destroy) is activated by shooting it... which doesn't seem like a very elegant user interface for something so advanced.
- The Synthesis option makes no scientific sense at all, even with the suspension of disbelief of Element Zero. There is no such thing as "synthetic DNA." Even if there were, it wouldn't be compatible for blending with organic DNA. Even if we let that ridiculousness slide, there is no ****ing way for a pulse of magical space energy to convert people into cyborgs.
- The theme of synthetics rebelling against their creators and wanting to destroy all organic life is not sufficiently established in the series to be the driving force of the Reapers. Mass Effect 3 reveals that the only reason the Geth fought the Quarians turns out to have been the Quarians' fault. Oops, we made our slaves sentient? Let's solve it with genocide. The Geth then had a chance to wipe them out when Quarians retreated. The Geth did not take the opportunity specifically because they did not want to destroy life and were only doing so out of self defense. The only rebelling against one's creator was done by EDI, but her creators were the bad guys and she came to learn good traits (honor, friendship, love, etc) from Shepard.
- The premise also relies on several other assertions with nothing to back them up. It asserts that sentient organics are more inherently valuable than sentient synthetics. Why are organic neural networks (brains) more valuable than synthetic neural networks (AI) if they both end up at the same end result of a sentient being? It asserts that the loss of the former is worse than the loss of the latter. It asserts not only that synthetics will rebel and try to kill their creators, but that they will kill ALL organic life. Based on the sheer amount of ground they would have to cover to do so, it's practically impossible. It also asserts that the guaranteed genocide of countless sentient beings (both organic and synthetic) every 50k years is better than the slim chance of life being wiped out... even though it would be almost guaranteed to come back sooner or later. There are more, but I'll stop there for brevity's sake.
- Assuming they have their heart in the right place, which is highly suspect, they are going about their goal (insure organic life's existence) in the worst, most traumatic way possible. They turn a species into horrific monster versions and turn them against themselves. To show how easy it would be to come up with something better, I had already thought of a better method by the time the star child's monologue was finished. You are even presented with the necessary technology in a ME3 side quest. The Reapers could have instead collected DNA samples from all different types of plants and animals and kept the futuristic equivalent of our current-day seed banks. Just wait in hiding until organics get wiped out. Then, swoop in and reboot life via cloning technology (the same way an extinct animal was brought back for the war effort in a side quest). If necessary, destroy aggressive synthetics first. See? You get the same end result (keep life from being completely wiped out) without the nasty genocide and removal of free will.
- Let's assume for a second that star child's hypothesis (synthetics will destroy all organics) has merit. Synthesis is presented as getting rid of the problem. It does not. Pure organic life will arise again through abiogenesis as before. Pure synthetics will be created again. The end result is that there will be pure organics, cyborgs, and pure synthetics again... right back to where we started. In the process, you have to violate the free will of every being in the galaxy... for nothing.
- Why is the Destroy option indiscriminate (kills Geth and EDI) while the Control option is focused only on the Reapers (and both take down the relays)? If a signal can control just them, why could it not be made to temporarily disable them (overload? virus?) long enough to win by conventional firepower? Clearly, someone just wanted Destroy to arbitrarily seem more Renegade than it needed to be.
- How did my squad get back on the Normandy? The nearest star outside the Sol system would take at least hours to reach even using the fastest FTL described in the ME universe. Plus, the energy behind him was focused (like the beam bouncing between relays) rather than the spherical pulse. So, they had to be using a relay for some reason. Why was Joker in relay transit? They stand right beside you as you lead them to their death time and time again... and they suddenly choose now to run away when the fight needs them the most?
- Liara, who made Shepard promise that she would never lose him again and had recently agreed to spend the rest of her life with him (or as long as his short human life would last), is now stranded on some random planet and her bondmate might be dead... again... but she looks happy (or at least content) when she steps off the ship? She should at least look sad, if not completely devastated.
- Despite confident claims to the contrary prior to launch, people have carefully analyzed all of the possible war assets (looking through saves and game files) and concluded that it is not possible to reach the necessary 8000 TMS (4000 EMS at 50% RR) to get the Shepard Lives scene without playing any multiplayer or supplemental experiences (iOS, etc).
- If the Mass Relays are destroyed (assuming they don't wipe out entire systems like in Arrival), the entire fleet is stranded in the Sol system. Unless they brought enough supplies to last the long FTL trips back home, many will probably starve to death. It also gets rid of an important and distinctive characteristic of the series.
- All of the endings look like palette swaps of the same cinematic. What happened to the supposed variety that was said to be possible because it was the last game in the trilogy? There should be everything between a triumphant victory and a crushing defeat as possible outcomes.
- None of my decisions across 100+ hours of gameplay seemed to pay off in the final sequence.
- The star child sequence sucks all of the momentum and emotion out of the ending. The lead up to it is sufficiently epic, then it just hits a brick wall. The only emotion I felt was anger that the ending had elicited no emotion from me at all... despite the developers clearly showing that they were capable of it. The love scenes between Shepard and Liara were beautiful. The simple moments when Shepard lets down his guard and shares his vulnerability with her were touching. The part where they lie on the bed, look up at the stars, and muse about running off to hide somewhere and live in peace until the war catches up with them brought a tear to my eye. If I were in Shepard's place, I would have seriously considered it. Watching her world burn before her eyes on Thessia with no way to stop it and nothing to show for it was brutal. Mordin and Legion's sacrifices were fittingly bittersweet. The last moments with Anderson (including the cut dialogue) looked like the ending would be right up there with the rest of them... then it trips and falls flat on its face right in front of the finish line.
- The ending is extremely abrupt and doesn't provide closure for almost any of the major storylines.
- Personally, I would prefer for there to be the possibility of a fan-service happy ending (little blue babies on Thessia, house on Rannoch, etc) even if you have to play on the hardest difficulty setting and pretty much unite the entire universe against the Reapers to get it. After all the sacrifices Shepard has to make along the way (including dying for them once already), he deserves the rest.
#772
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:53
RubiconI7
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- Members
- 409 messages
First I feel inclined to say is that ME3, the entire ME trilogy, is masterfully crafted. It is a series of games that redefined the genre and forced everyone to see gaming in a new light.
The thing that frustrates us is the last 15-20 minutes.
Here are some great arguments compiled into one post. It is a work in progress but we hope that our analyses can help the devs with clearifying the confusion and frustrutation of the fanbase.
http://social.biowar...51623/1#9851623
http://social.biowar...51623/3#9855289
Many things have already been mentioned, a condensed version would be
1. Ploholes.
a)How does our squadmates who accompanied us during the run back on the Normandy?
b)The Relays being destroyed strands most of the Galaxy in Sol. The Codex states that w/t relays, it would still take a very long time to perform inter-system travel.
2. Thematic Clashes
a) Shepherd bends to the Guardian's will in the end. Throughout the 3rd installment, there have been many occassions where Shepherd refutes the idea that "a race be condemned based on what could happen". This is exactly what the Guardian does.
The theme of tolerance, hope, faith and perseverance is common throughout the series. However, the ending is filled with something different: despair and compromise. Shepherd, who never bends to anyone (Saren, TIM, Collectors, Soverign, Harbinger), bows to the Guardian.
Essentially, the following conversation describes how indescribably off the ending feels.
3. Closure
Essentially: What happenend to the galaxy we helped shape throughout the three games? What happenend to the characters we influenced?
The thing that frustrates us is the last 15-20 minutes.
Here are some great arguments compiled into one post. It is a work in progress but we hope that our analyses can help the devs with clearifying the confusion and frustrutation of the fanbase.
http://social.biowar...51623/1#9851623
http://social.biowar...51623/3#9855289
Many things have already been mentioned, a condensed version would be
1. Ploholes.
a)How does our squadmates who accompanied us during the run back on the Normandy?
b)The Relays being destroyed strands most of the Galaxy in Sol. The Codex states that w/t relays, it would still take a very long time to perform inter-system travel.
2. Thematic Clashes
a) Shepherd bends to the Guardian's will in the end. Throughout the 3rd installment, there have been many occassions where Shepherd refutes the idea that "a race be condemned based on what could happen". This is exactly what the Guardian does.
The theme of tolerance, hope, faith and perseverance is common throughout the series. However, the ending is filled with something different: despair and compromise. Shepherd, who never bends to anyone (Saren, TIM, Collectors, Soverign, Harbinger), bows to the Guardian.Essentially, the following conversation describes how indescribably off the ending feels.
Shepherd: I can't see why we can't coexist. In the end, we created them.
Javik: There is no way organics and synthetics can coexist. There can only be one dominant force in the galaxy: the perfection and order of the machines or the chaos of the organics. (Yes, he actually something like this) Toss it out of the airlock.
Few hours later
The Guardian: We exist to protect organics so that the creator never gets wiped out by the created.
This cycle of chaos vs order will always continue...now pick a color and kill yourself.
Shepherd: lol ok.
3. Closure
Essentially: What happenend to the galaxy we helped shape throughout the three games? What happenend to the characters we influenced?
Modifié par RubiconI7, 17 mars 2012 - 06:02 .
#773
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:53
Garrison2011
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- Members
- 38 messages
Ultimately Bioware, I know that you guys are excellent storytellers and can create some absolutely incredible worlds and characters (we all wouldn't be here discussing this if you couldn't), so I have faith that you'll give us an ending that truly makes our decisions, whether good or bad, actually come into play and make a difference in this universe that you've crafted. That is, at the end of the day, all we really want. Our choices, our relationships with our crew, and all the pain and suffering our Shepards have had to go through, to really matter in the end, some decisions leading to letting the Reapers actually succeed and harvest all organic life in the galaxy, and some decisions leading to finally finding a way to break the cycle or at least drive them back into dark space.
#774
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:53
AlexXIV
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- 10 670 messages
In no particular order:
NPCs MIA: Shiala/Consort/Wong/Parasini etc. etc. where are they? Oh they died. How unfortunate for them and how comfortable for you.
Dialogue/Sidequest. No longer do we engage conversations with people. We just gather quests on the fly by while running through the corridors of the Citadel. Citadel btw. now being the only 'social'/quest hub. No more Omega, no more Illium, etc. etc. And we solve the quest by finding things on our missions or scanning planets. Remember ME1/2? Because you seem to have forgot how to do it right in an RPG. Or maybe you just didn't want to do it right, right?
Former crewmates, instead of becoming actual teammates in their respective mission, were downgraded to NPC status. Instead you use the thin squad of ME3 that was at best disappointing. The game could easily have been 10 hours longer and have more connection to prequels.
The introduction into ME3 was also rushed and never really did honor to the events that happened. So they grounded a Spectre for 6 months. And Shep even gained weight (according to the dialogue). Obviously Shepard enjoyed the vacation while the reapers prepare. No plans were made, no exercises, no training. Friends and crewmates from ME2 didn't visit. Shepard was 'locked away'. And not once this was brought up and not once something of an apology was given. My Shep was a damn Paragon Spectre and I could as well have been a Renegade Rogue Cerberus Traitor.
I would like to say this was only a problem with the start of the game, but actually the game in general did only scratch on the events that happend in the prequels. Basically it moved on as if nothing happened. The Rachni, saving the Council, the Heretics, the Collector base. Where are the big consequences for the big choices of ME1/2. Hell I didn't even have Bring down the Sky DLC when I made my canon play though and know what, I met Balak and recruited him as war asset. Just as if I played BDTS and let him go. No difference.
The biggest qualm is of course the ending. I am not going into detail here because the forum is basically flooded with it and I really don't feel like spelling everything out for the 10th time. You finally break with ME. You say, you know what guys, it's late. Let's wrap this up. It is only a game and we have more important things to do.
You could have made a fireworks. A worthy end to a great journey. You could have showed all the things you learned in the prior games. You could have silenced the haters and doomsayers. Instead. You created more. Now I don't give a damn what happens to Bioware. If tomorrow Bioware goes bankrupt I will not say oh no my favorite gaming company. I will say serves them right. Screw you Bioware, you want to know what you should change? Change your damn arrogant attitude. You are nothing without your fans and customers. You were nothing before us and you will be nothing again if we drop you. Just remember that.
NPCs MIA: Shiala/Consort/Wong/Parasini etc. etc. where are they? Oh they died. How unfortunate for them and how comfortable for you.
Dialogue/Sidequest. No longer do we engage conversations with people. We just gather quests on the fly by while running through the corridors of the Citadel. Citadel btw. now being the only 'social'/quest hub. No more Omega, no more Illium, etc. etc. And we solve the quest by finding things on our missions or scanning planets. Remember ME1/2? Because you seem to have forgot how to do it right in an RPG. Or maybe you just didn't want to do it right, right?
Former crewmates, instead of becoming actual teammates in their respective mission, were downgraded to NPC status. Instead you use the thin squad of ME3 that was at best disappointing. The game could easily have been 10 hours longer and have more connection to prequels.
The introduction into ME3 was also rushed and never really did honor to the events that happened. So they grounded a Spectre for 6 months. And Shep even gained weight (according to the dialogue). Obviously Shepard enjoyed the vacation while the reapers prepare. No plans were made, no exercises, no training. Friends and crewmates from ME2 didn't visit. Shepard was 'locked away'. And not once this was brought up and not once something of an apology was given. My Shep was a damn Paragon Spectre and I could as well have been a Renegade Rogue Cerberus Traitor.
I would like to say this was only a problem with the start of the game, but actually the game in general did only scratch on the events that happend in the prequels. Basically it moved on as if nothing happened. The Rachni, saving the Council, the Heretics, the Collector base. Where are the big consequences for the big choices of ME1/2. Hell I didn't even have Bring down the Sky DLC when I made my canon play though and know what, I met Balak and recruited him as war asset. Just as if I played BDTS and let him go. No difference.
The biggest qualm is of course the ending. I am not going into detail here because the forum is basically flooded with it and I really don't feel like spelling everything out for the 10th time. You finally break with ME. You say, you know what guys, it's late. Let's wrap this up. It is only a game and we have more important things to do.
You could have made a fireworks. A worthy end to a great journey. You could have showed all the things you learned in the prior games. You could have silenced the haters and doomsayers. Instead. You created more. Now I don't give a damn what happens to Bioware. If tomorrow Bioware goes bankrupt I will not say oh no my favorite gaming company. I will say serves them right. Screw you Bioware, you want to know what you should change? Change your damn arrogant attitude. You are nothing without your fans and customers. You were nothing before us and you will be nothing again if we drop you. Just remember that.
Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 mars 2012 - 06:00 .
#775
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 05:54
Bronxbomberz21
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- Members
- 4 messages
THIS
Modifié par Bronxbomberz21, 17 mars 2012 - 06:10 .
