7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Storin]

I don't post much, but I feel the need to make some comments here. The endings simply do not provide closure. I read the post by Casey Hudson in the Announcements forum, and while the honesty is appreciated, I don't completely understand. He says the ending is meant to convey "victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection", but all I got out of it was depressing nihilism, to the point where I can't bring myself to play again. I have three Shepards played through ME2 and was excited to run them all through the finale, but the joy was just sucked out of it for me. I'd like to make a couple comments about what I had a problem with:

1. The sequence after Shepard wakes up from Harbinger's laser blast feels very disjointed to me. I immediately assumed it was a dream sequence (not talking about the "Indoctrination theory"; I didn't even know what that was at the time), because of the slow motion movement, altered combat mechanics, and overall surrealism of it. This left me feeling confused as I slowly decided it wasn't a dream. I'm still left wondering how much of that was meant to be real and how much was a delusion conjured by Shepard's dying braincells.

2. I expected, and wanted, a boss fight. I'm sorry if that seems hackneyed and cliche, but it's the truth. Staggering half-dead to the finish line was just incredibly underwhelming for me. I no longer felt like a hero, or that I was in any way driving the story; at that point, I was just the first poor sod to make it to the Citadel. It felt like I could have been playing any of the soldiers on the ground there and the rest of that sequence would have played out largely the same, minus the more personal aspects of your interactions with Anderson and the Illusive Man. I wasn't excited or gripped by the narrative any more. I just felt sad and wanted to get it done with as quickly as possible.

3. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the confusion comes into play here again. Leaving aside my problem with how Anderson beats me to the console in the Citadel while looking unscathed, while I've been blasted to bits, I felt quite lost by the confrontation with the Illusive Man. How was he controlling Shepard and Anderson? This seemed to come out of nowhere, and I couldn't figure out how or why, or what I was meant to do. On the other hand, I will say I was quite satisfied with how that bit ended (I got him to shoot himself, just as I had Saren in ME1), and with the final exchange between Shepard and Anderson. This was some much needed closure.

4. The Star Child. I find this entire sequence so baffling and unappealing I don't know where to begin. Again leaving aside the plot holes, the whole conversation just didn't make sense to me. His/its explanation of the Reapers' purpose didn't really hold together (as others have pointed out, the solution to organics being wiped out by synthetics is for organics to be wiped out by other synthetics? I just don't get the logic.), and the whole thing really takes a dramatic departure from the rest of the series in terms of tone and characterization. It seems to me that either the Reapers' purpose needs to be much more fleshed out, or simply left unknown and unknowable (I favor the latter approach, personally). I was also bothered, like a lot of others, by Shepard's utter passivity in this encounter. He blindly accepts the word of a completely unknown element, enough that he's willing to endanger all of galactic civilization? I just can't reconcile that with the character. Tying in with my next thought, what I really wanted and expected was for Shepard and his allies to beat the Reapers, not to have some final act mystery character step up and "let" me/them win.

5. The choices. This is the worst part for me, because it's so nebulous. I picked the Destroy option, because it frankly seemed the only good choice (relatively speaking). But it leaves a LOT of major questions. The mass relays are destroyed. Doesn't that destroy every star system they're in, as established in ME2? In other words, didn't I just blow up Earth, and the entire allied fleet, and every other major world in the galaxy? Because if so, it doesn't really seem like I accomplished anything. Letting the Reapers win wouldn't have been much different. If this isn't the case, why not? Why is it different from the relay that got blown up in the Arrival DLC for ME2? Assuming Earth and the other planets near relays are fine, doesn't that still strand a massive fleet in the Sol System, where the soldiers and so on face a slow and painful death from lack of resources? To add even more horror, I had the Quarians along, so have I not just sentenced their entire species to extinction? And have I not also destroyed galactic civilization either way? Again, it almost feels like a Reaper victory would have been no worse. In some ways, it might have been preferable, as at least the galaxy could rise again and have another chance at victory in the next cycle. I'm not upset that Shepard dies. I'd like the ability to see him survive, but I'm fine with him dying. But I wanted him to go out like a hero, while this way just made me feel like a pathetic failure.

About the Normandy, a couple questions: Why was it fleeing the battle? There was no warning of an explosion, or time to get to the relay. Why are all my companions apparently on the ship when they weren't before. I romanced Liara in this save, and she was with me during the final charge. Then she hops out of the Normandy following the crash without so much as a bruise or a tear. I'm meant to believe she abandoned Shepard on the battlefield to run back to the Normandy? I just can't buy that. I can't see her doing anything other than following him, or dying trying to get him back. Seeing her was at once a relief, knowing she lives, but also rang hollow to me, because it just doesn't fit the character I've gotten to know over three games. It just left a sour taste in my mouth.

6. The war readiness and past choices. It feels very much like the choices made over the course of the series, and particularly ME3, had little to no bearing on the ending. Does it matter if your reconcile the Quarians and the Geth? The Turians and the Krogan? Other than shifting your military score a few points, no. Wrex gets a scene with the Krogan at the end, but the Quarians and Geth are barely seen, and there's no sense that you've really brought much to the final battle by getting them on your side. It was quite a letdown after I went through the game being sure that my every decision would impact the outcome in unforseen ways. In this sense I think the conclusion of ME2 was much stronger, as your decisions there actually affected who lives and who dies. Here, I felt like really I could have done almost anything as long as I bumped my score up (especially if I grinded out points in multiplayer), and it would make no difference.

So what would I do differently? A couple ideas:
1. I don't expect it to be the case, but I really, really want to believe the dream/hallucination idea. That everything after Shepard is knocked out by that laser beam is happening inside his own mind. To me, it actually makes more sense than taking the rest on face value (it wipes out most or all of the plot holes, for one), and allows for a more definitive ending after. I'm not suggesting writing the Indoctrination "theory" into the narrative wholesale if that's not at all what was intended. It just seems more satisfying this way.

2. Give us either a final fight with Harbinger, or some kind of battle on the Citadel. At least make Harbinger more of a presence at the end. ME2 and 3 feel like they're building up to some kind of confrontation between Shepard and Harbinger, but then it comes to nothing at the end. He's name dropped and shoots at you, but doesn't even speak. (Unless the Star Child IS Harbinger, but that seems unlikely to me.)

3. More explanation of what happens after the story. Something simple like the text after the end of Dragon Age Origins, telling you how your choices played out. That was immensely satisfying to me and cemented the idea that your choices really made a difference, even if your character didn't personally witness every consequence. What happens to the fleet? Are they stranded on Earth with nowhere to go and little or no resources to be had, or do they get back somehow? Was the Citadel destroyed at the end? Does anyone ever rescue the crew of the Normandy? What happened to all the people on the Citadel? Bailey, Aria, the Council, etc, were they all killed when the Reapers took over, did they escape, are they hiding somewhere on the station, etc? For that matter, what happens to the ME2 companions, most of whom only get very brief cameos in ME3? I wish they had had more of a presence in this game.

4. Give us more of an option at the end to control what happens. The constant theme of this series is our heroes fighting back against the inevitable and at least seeming to win. The sudden shift to "there is no hope, you can only do one of these three Reaper-approved actions" at the end is jarring and feels wrong. Shepard wouldn't just meekly accept what he's told. He'd tell the Star Child what to do with "solutions" and find a better way. That's what he does. That's basically the point of the character through the whole series. Why can't he force the Star Child to deactivate the Reapers? He has a gun and he now knows how to destroy them completely anyway. Or make the Star Child upload the plans for building mass relays to the resistance on Earth so they can be rebuilt later? Or anything, really? On top of that, what I'd really like most of all, is some way, however difficult, to get a "good" ending. By that I mean Shepard lives and is reunited with his love interest. It's not like this makes everything happy in the end. Untold billions are dead, Earth and other major homeworlds across the galaxy are on fire, and all of galactic civilization is in disarray. Just some personal note of happiness and closure to make the rest of it a bit less grim. Otherwise, it feels a bit like putting the fire out after the house has already burned down and the people inside have died. At least give us a chance to save them and have them be together, even if their home has been wrecked.

Thanks for reading.
Signed,
One long-time and very devoted, but currently upset and very disapointed, fan

Modifié par Storin, 17 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[awilkin]

This thread is from a screenwriter's analysis of the ending. He provides excellent feedback on the ending's story structure.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

Modifié par awilkin, 17 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[gearseffect]

My problem

1.Change the endings Here are two links of Polls I did to see what fans want to see and encouraged constructive feedback in my comments as My Shepard's story is differenthttp://social.bioware.com/2315232/polls/29523/ than others so asked for feedback

Here is yet another Poll I did
http://social.biowar...32/polls/29666/

2.LI's all the ME2 LI's got sh!t on, Jacob T., Samara, Thane, Jack, Miranda, and Kelly. We got completly cr@ped on if favor of Liara and the VS, Also Garrus and Tali got cr@pped on in favor of Liara too.

3.Those 2 links have Polls with valued Fan Feed Back and Ideas, BW take a look and see that your fans on those polls have come with those ideas.

[Lucy Glitter]

Make choices actually matter

Don't write off all ME2 companions with a single conversation/death

Make the endings make sense

Give the animations more polish, the sprinting animations for your companions are purely comedic

Space bar action button is pure annoyance. Assign other keys for cover and/or sprint

Make ME2 romances less rushed and relevant

Less Zaeed dialogue :| 

Less auto dialogue :|

[Chris150150xx]

This is the first thread on this topic I'm actually pleased about. Its a shame that it wasnt kicked off by Bioware, but that said it's a sticky, and means someone might actually read it. I'll start by posting this, which I know loads of people have done, but it's truly the best article on the issue:


http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

All I want, is to have a game which ends. A real ending, which

A) Makes sense within the context of what has gone before, including, if possible, choices taken in ME1 & 2 to reflect the fact it is a trilogy being concluded
Offers choice to the player, with meaningful variation depending on what choice is taken
C) A conclusion which explains the implications of your actions on key characters/locations al la Fallout 3/New Vegas

I am now starting to 'get' what Bioware were trying to do, but I think it's disengenuous to say, in light of recent news, that the ending isnt reflective in part of running out of time. So here's my advice:

Take the time. Take 6 months if you need to. Just promise the community something. Something real. No one cares about time. We'd have waited another year for Mass Effect because we love it. We'd have grumbled, but nothing like this.

Take the time. Finish the game. Release the finished game.

[Dr_Hello]

chibilombax wrote...

I was honestly prepared to have my Shepard die. So having them die isn't exactly an issue with me. You see their hand bloody. You're almost ready to just say goodbye to your character. We said goodbye to all the characters. And yet we didn't really have a moment as a player to say goodbye to the character we've been playing as for years.

If somehow I got the golden ticket of Bioware and it was up to me to change the endings. Well I would've had Shepard die next to Anderson. If War Assets were really really really high they'd live. The relays wouldn't be touched. Nor the Geth/Edi. But maybe I'm just being greedy. I apologize if it comes out that way.

Is talking about other games okay? Well there was Final Fantasy 10-2. The main plot is to save the world and try to find Tidus from the game before it. You only found him however if you got 100 percent. Making the happy ending a result of some very hard work. ( Unless you used a game shark but that's not the point I'm trying to make )

I know some players enjoyed the endings. Perhaps to try and keep them happy you could have those be the "minimum assets" endings. So they could still see them. It honestly just feels like a waste of time to do all the side quests and get the same thing someone could if they breezed through the game. I know copying the ME2 formula might not feel right. But that's what made the finale of ME2 so brilliant. You got to see your hard work pay off in the Suicide Mission.

It's not really asking for cupcakes and rainbows. It just feels if Shepard has to die it'd be nice to know it wasn't in vain. Similar to how it was done in Dragon Age Origins. Mass Effect 3 is still a game. You can try to make it a movie all you want but people don't go buying DLC for movies or books. It's heart breaking to see so much hope happen between the galactic races just to have it diminished in under five minutes. In Origins you had the option to kill your Warden off. But there was a optional way around it so you could continue the story with your original Warden in Awakening. Even if they died you could just play a Orlesian Warden and it would have an effect on the story.

Also I do hate to bring it up. But Mass Effect, while it is a fictional setting. It was always easy to believe the settings techno babble. For me anyway. I honestly cannot think up how a beam from a space station super weapon could change the DNA of everything in the galaxy. If I have to be honest it sounded silly. I can't imagine anybody wanting to continue the story even without Shepard if things are in the Dark Ages. But this is just how I see it. I cannot speak for everybody.

I read you were hoping fans could use their imagination. I say that's okay but it's hurtful if that's all the fans can do to find some sort of comfort in the end. It was similar to how some people say pets or family members go to heaven and that's how they find comfort after they pass away. Okay that might be an extreme comparison. But if you still want imagination. How about listening in on the Indoctrination Theory the fans have thought up? They pointed out a lot of hints to support it. It's quite impressive even if you don't believe it. However again it's sad they had to do this to not feel depressed. If you want imagination you can have Shepard wake up in rubble as hinted in the cinematic after you pick Destroy. Have them charge at the beam and we could be left to think "What happened after the Reapers were destroyed?" But this kind of goes against the "closure on the galaxy" I know people are talking about. I'm just trying to please as many people as possible. Even the ones who were fine with the endings and insulted the hurt fans.

It's just really depressing that fans are willing to accept a theory saying "It was all a dream the whole thing didn't happen!" Ignoring the game as a whole as a dream.

On an emotional standpoint the endings were cruel. Players had to watch characters go through noble endings. Which were done in such a great way that it's just cruel that the emotions you felt don't seem to matter in the end. Fans are okay with sad endings. Mordin, Thane, Legion. There's so much praise for their endings. Shepards however just honestly seems rushed and you're left with way more questions then answers. Such as the Relays possibly exploding and wiping out all life. Like in Arrival. Or how will the fleet get back to their homes? Even just thinking of everybody starving to death in space in the Sol System. That's really just mean and makes Shepard look like a coward for giving up and dying.

I'm sorry if this is a long post. This is 2 weeks of my thoughts now that the Anger stage I was in is gone. I'm sure others will cover anything I forgot.

Okay I'm just going to end this with one question a friend of mine wanted to suggest. How about a fan contest for Tali's face? I've seen a lot of people didn't really care for her look in game. You could have a contest similar to what you did for the default Fem Shep. Fanart being sent in and the best one gets put into the game. It'll be a gift to the fans by the fans.

@Chibilombax,

I second your comments. Great points you made. It seems there are commonalities in what many of us are saying.
Here's mine if you'd like to read: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10098213/24#10104010

[Adventuress]

*GARRUS:
*IF GARRUS LIVES- NON-LOVE INTEREST:
Watch as Garrus commands Turians in a rebuilding effort back on Pavalan in a cutscene.(Cut to epilogue.) OR (Cut straight to epilogue.)
*IF GARRUS LIVES- LOVE INTEREST:
       * IF SHEPARD LIVES: Watch as Garrus and Shepard share drinks in an open bar with an “Afterlife/Heaven” name in a tropical environment. Maybe have them share a look. Maybe have them holding hands. Maybe have them embracing. Maybe have a final conversation. All while looking out into the sunset. Fade to black. (Cut to epilogue.)
      * IF SHEPARD DIES: Watch as Garrus walks up to Shepard’s Memorial Plaza and stares at it while holding  Shepard’s dog tags. Maybe have Garrus say a final line of “Don’t forget I’m buying.” Or “Never.” Or something equally moving. (Cut to epilogue.)
*IF GARRUS DIES:
Float over the character’s name on the “Remembrance Wall.” (Cut to epilogue)


*TALI:
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- NON-LOVE INTEREST:
Watch as Tali commands Quarians (Depending on player choices: + Geth) in a building effort back on Rannoch in a cutscene. (Cut to epilogue.)  OR (Cut straight to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- LOVE INTEREST:
        *IF SHEPARD LIVES: Show Shepard and Tali together on her homeworld again, looking over a balcony of a newly made building—Tali’s home. Maybe have them share a look. Maybe have them holding hands. Maybe have them embracing. Maybe have a final conversation. All while looking out into the sunset of the new environment. Fade to black. (Cut to epilogue.)
       *IF SHEPARD DIES: Watch as the character walks up to Shepard’s Memorial Plaza and stares at it while holding  Shepard’s dog tags. Maybe have the character say a final line of “Keelah se'lai.” Or something equally moving. (Cut to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER DIES:
Float over the character’s name on the “Remembrance Wall.” (Cut to epilogue)


* LIARA:
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- NON-LOVE INTEREST:
 Watch as Liara commands Asari in a rebuilding effort back on Thessia in a cutscene. (Cut to epilogue.) OR (Cut straight to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- LOVE INTEREST:
       * IF SHEPARD LIVES: Show Shepard and Liara in a landscape scene. Have Liara pick up one of her own time capsules.  Maybe have them share a look. Maybe have them holding hands. Maybe have them embracing. Maybe have a final conversation. All while looking out into the sunset Fade to black. (Cut to epilogue.)
      * IF SHEPARD DIES: Watch as the character walks up to Shepard’s Memorial Plaza and stares at it while holding  Shepard’s dog tags.  Maybe have the character say a final line of “We did it, Shepard.” Or “I’m glad I wrote your name in the stars.” Or something equally moving. (Cut to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER DIES:
Float over the character’s name on the “Remembrance Wall.” (Cut to epilogue)


* ASHLEY:
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- NON-LOVE INTEREST:
 Show Ashley (depending on player decisions)in a cutscene helping to rebuild Earth in some way. (Cut to epilogue.) OR (Cut straight to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- LOVE INTEREST:
        *IF SHEPARD LIVES: Show Ashley (depending on player decisions) in a cutscene helping to rebuild Earth in some way. Maybe have them share a look. Maybe have them holding hands. Maybe have them embracing. Maybe have a final conversation. All while looking out into the sunset. Fade to black. (Cut to epilogue.)
      * IF SHEPARD DIES: Watch as the character walks up to Shepard’s Memorial Plaza (depending on player decisions) and stares at it (while holding Shepard’s dog tags IF L.I.). Maybe have the character say a final line of “I’ll see you again, Skipper. That’s a promise.” Or something equally moving.(Cut to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER DIES:
Float over the character’s name on the “Remembrance Wall.” (Cut to epilogue)


* KAIDAN:
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- NON-LOVE INTEREST:
 Show Kaidan (depending on player decisions)in a cutscene helping to rebuild Earth in some way. (Cut to epilogue.) OR (Cut straight to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- LOVE INTEREST:
       * IF SHEPARD LIVES: Show Kaidan (depending on player decisions) in a cutscene helping to rebuild Earth in some way. Maybe have them share a look. Maybe have them holding hands. Maybe have them embracing. Maybe have a final conversation. All while looking out into the sunset. Fade to black. (Cut to epilogue.)
      * IF SHEPARD DIES: Watch as the character walks up to Shepard’s Memorial Plaza (depending on player decisions) and stares at it (while holding  Shepard’s dog tags IF L.I.). Maybe have the character say a final line of “Wait for me, Shepard.” Or something equally moving. (Cut to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER DIES:
Float over the character’s name on the “Remembrance Wall.” (Cut to epilogue)


* JAMES & JACOB & JACK & MIRANDA & SAMARA & WREX & GRUNT (These are only grouped together due to the fact that they are temporary squad mates only in ME3/No love interest.):
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- NON-LOVE INTEREST:
 Show each or some of these characters (depending on player decisions)in a cutscene helping to rebuild Earth in some way. Maybe even have all of them in the same cutscene, just in different places or areas. (Cut to epilogue.) OR (Cut straight to epilogue.)
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- LOVE INTEREST:
        *IF SHEPARD LIVES: During the cutscene, show Shepard specifically walk to the specified love interest and appropriately acknowledge their relationship if there was not something to go wrong. Fade to black. (Cut to epilogue)
      * IF SHEPARD DIES: Watch as the characters walk up to Shepard’s Memorial Plaza and stare at it while (if there is) the specified L.I. is holding  Shepard’s dog tags. Have them nod to each other in respect or take another appropriate action knowing that they all worked together under his/her command at one point and time.
*IF CHARACTER DIES:
Float over the characters’ name(s) on the “Remembrance Wall.” (Cut to epilogue)


*EDI & JOKER:
*IF CHARACTER LIVES- NON-LOVE INTEREST:
Show each or some of these characters (depending on player decisions)in a cutscene helping to rebuild Earth in some way. (Cut to epilogue.) OR (Cut straight to epilogue.)
       *IF SHEPARD DIES: Watch as the character(s) walk(s) up to Shepard’s Memorial Plaza and stare(s) at it while holding Shepard’s dog tags (IF there was no L.I. or L.I. died).  If Joker and EDI are both alive have them embrace (depending on player decisions) as they look up at it. Maybe have Joker say “Thank you, Shepard. For everything.” Or something equally moving.
*IF CHARACTER DIES:
Float over the character’s name on the “Remembrance Wall.” (Cut to epilogue)
 
 

•  EPILOGUE/CUT STRAIGHT TO EPILOGUE:  The epilogue could be something like the Secondary Codex in the games. A scroll of text (maybe with a picture) describing the future/something important due to player choice. I would think there should only be three cut scenes for the ending if the galaxy is not destroyed or something along those lines. One for Shepard’s L.I., two for either the characters Shepard brought with him/her at the end, or make it a random variable. An example for the epilogue could be: WREX & GRUNT: Explain how the Krogans are either steadily rebuilding or falling into ruin based off of the player’s decision with the genophage in a cutscene.

• SHEPARD’S MEMORIAL PLAZA: Have this monument/ coffin/ marker/ something significant in order for the companion’s to say goodbye IF Shepard dies. It should look/feel/etc. “fresh” or “new” as if Shepard’s funeral was extremely recent.
  
  
  
• REMEMBRANCE WALL: This could be a large wall of names dedicated to Shepard’s companions if they fell in the war/in combat/ after the ending, like in the Normandy.

As a note: Not ALL characters have to live at the end. They could have died fighting Reapers after Shepard’s lives to fight another day even. There’s tons of variables to consider. An ending could happen where everyone dies. I think the biggest thing here would be to explicitly state the character’s name (that was close to Shepard) in the EPILOGUE, no matter what happened.

Overall, I know there are a lot of things to consider in something like this (Do the relays get destroyed? Do the relays stay. Do the Quarians get home? Do the Turians get home?). I don’t know every romance very well, and I haven’t studied certain characters enough to get a feel of what some of the fans might specifically want. I would also like to note that I'd like it to be very, very, very hard for someone to get the special "Shepard lives!" ending.

I apologize if this isn’t what some people had in mind. For me, however, it would clear up a lot of open-endedness on certain ends and gives people the endings they want as well as (in my humble opinion) replayability. And yes, I also know this would probably take a lot of time, money, and resources. They just asked for ideas, so that’s what I’m doing.

It’s getting really late, but I’ll think of more options for the actual ending later and edit my thread.

Modifié par Adventuress, 17 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[Captain_Obvious]

I'm going to keep mine really short.

1. Fix the ending.
2. Tweak the EMS amounts so we aren't forced to play multiplayer to get the "best" ending (see #1).
3. Fix the journal so it updates when you have collected an asset.

[RagingCeltik]

 
 Casey Hudson said in his earlier statement:

"
So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions. You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey. "

There is a fundamental flaw in this statement as it relates to Mass Effect 3 and the overall Mass Effect story.

All stories follow a general structure.   Some mess with that structure (Pulp Fiction) and others have invented new frameworks of maniuplating this structure.  Ultimately, any story structure can be explained using the following infographic:

 

Let's see how this applies to the Mass Effect series.

ME1:
Introduction:  Eden Prime.
Complication: Saren and the vision of the Reapers.
Middle: The main missions (Liara, Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos)
Climax: The battle for the Citadel
Denouement: The death of Saren/Sovreign.  Shepard survives.
Coda: Decisions made as far as the Council is concerned. (Pro-human or Pro-cooperation)

ME2:
Introduction: Shepard dies and is brought back by Cerberus.
Complication: The Collectors abducting human colonists.
Middle: The recruitment and loyalty missions, assault on Collector base 
Climax: Defeating the Human Reaper and Collectors
Denouement: Save/Destroy Collector Base, reveal of survivors/deaths
Coda: Confrontation with Illusive Man over Collector Base decision.

ME3:
Introduction:  The Reapers attack.
Complication: The galaxy will not unite behind Earth.  They've got their own problems.
Middle: Solve the problems of the galactic species, gain support.  The battle of Earth
Climax: The Starchild choices.
=====

You can even envelop all three games under one structure:
Introduction/Complication/Middle: ME1, ME2
Middle/Climax/Denouement: ME3

What's the point of all this?

Well I want to address Casey Hudson's quote at the beginning of this post as it relates to the story structure.  He basically says that Mass Effect 3 was designed to be a series of climaxes, which makes Starchild scene essentially the moral of the story.  A Coda.  The what-did-it-all-mean-and-what-was-it-all-for.

This reasoning does not work in the confines of the overall Mass Effect story structure or even ME3's standalone structure.   Yes, the choices Shepard makes in regards to the major overreaching problems such as the Genophange and the Geth question are climaxes.  Climaxes for (and this is important) *those individual story threads*.   These are *not* considered climaxes in regards to the overall story.   They are considered the "middle"; the actions Shepard takes in order to gain support for the final push against the Reapers.   These decisions do not "solve the main problem" which has *always* been the Reapers.

If we take the provided general structure at face value, then the climax is and can only be the final decision made from the choices given by the Starchild.   Since the series "main problem" has always been the Reapers, then the problem is not solved until Shepard chooses Control/Synthesis/Control.

What does that mean?  The final moments of your journey are the climax, and no Denouement (or Resolution) is given.   The story just ends.   This is the reason we are unsatisfied.   As human beings we have a intristic awareness of stories and what makes one satisfying or not.  It is how we passed on our early history.  The better the story, the more easily it is remembered.  The story structure is the framework developed after an entire human history worth of tales.  Mass Effect does not satisfy the framework, and as a result we have vocally expressed our discontentment.

So my suggestion is simple.   Just finish the story and give us what we were promised, real endings that reflect our choices.

Modifié par RagingCeltik, 17 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[adidaz]

I would like to see a happy ending or at least have the option to get one.
Like Shepard being able to live in peace with the love interest, and maybe even having started a family.
Knowing that Shepard worked so hard through the trilogy to achive peace and happiness, to unite every species and help rebuild their homes, it would be nice to see that happen and know that your decisions paid off.
I also think more time and interaction with the love interest would awesome.

Modifié par adidaz, 17 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[Deemz]

Do whatever it takes to bring back Drew Karpyshyn and give him full control of the stories.

[TheRazgrez]

heres one persons Idea don't know if anyone saw this but I'm hoping some idea can be taken from it. further information from myself at the bottom.




 Mass Effect 3 Alternate Endings. SPOILERSby *Arkis

MASS EFFECT 3 ALTERNATE ENDING *SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY*

**EDIT** Holy crap this got way more attention than I was expecting. The comments and support have been amazing everyone! 
A few points: Credit where credit is due; this ending, as much as everyone seems to love it, was only created because the amazing team at Bioware created a universe that was so rich and full of life and detail. As much as I know a lot of fans are hurt by what they did, we need to remember that Bioware still created an incredible trilogy, one of the best ever. So hats off to them all round.
Also, this was written really fast and so the ending (specifically the last part on how you actually win using TIM's signal) isn't very fleshed out. I know there are holes, and they can actually be fixed quite easily. This isn't perfect. Also, this doesn't deal with a 'happy' ending. If there were to be one, or you were to even CONSIDER taking the fourth option, you'd need to be damn ready. I'm talking ALL war assets etc to even have a chance. And the ending does not suggest that the Reapers are completely defeated at Earth, merely that portion of there fleet, thus buying time to recover the research from TIMs base. Also doesn't address an epilogue.
But again, thank you so much! I hope you enjoy, and if you are really passionate about it, let Bioware know. Crazier things have happened...**

Ok, so first off, let me say that I liked what Bioware TRIED to do with the ending, I just think it was handled soul-crushingly poorly. SO, I decided while I was bored this morning at breakfast I wanted to try rewriting it to flesh it out some/ try and make sense of it/ give it one other add-on. I know alot of people demand a happy ending, and I don't need that. I'm fine with sad, it made me sad. I just want it to make more sense. 

Alot of the dialogue is from the game as I wanted to fit into what already exists. It's rough, but let me know what you think... sorry about the length.

This begins just after Shepard has taken the heaven-elevator...



Child: Why are you here?

Shepard: *groggily* Wh-where am I?

Child: The Citadel. It is my home.

Shepard: Who are you?

Child: I am the Catalyst.

Shepard: I thought the Citadel was the Catalyst?

Child: No. The Citadel is simply a tool. One that has been reclaimed.

Shepard: I need to stop the Reapers. Do you know how to do that?

Child: The Reapers are mine. I control them. They are my solution.

Shepard: Solution? To what?

Child: Chaos. You bring it on yourselves. The created will always rebel against their creators. So it was with us. So will it be with you. But we found a way to stop that from happening. A way to restore order for the next cycle.

Shepard: By wiping out organic life? I don't understand...

Child: No. We harvest ADVANCED civilizations. Preserve them from their own mistakes. Leaving the younger ones alone. Just as we left your people alive the last time we were here.

Shepard: But you killed the rest...

Child: We helped them ascend. Preserved them in Reaper form. Saved them from their own creations.

Shepard: What creations? What are you talking about?

Child: The synthetic. The new child that is born of organics. The child that destroys everything.

Shepard: What?

Child: We were like you once. We flourished and spread throughout the galaxy. We unlocked the secrets of the universe. We could bend the very fabric of nature and time, leap the galaxy in a single stride, but even that was not enough. We searched for purpose, a reason for our existence....
Shepard: You were organics?

Child: We were children of the stars. Searching for where we fit into the pattern of the cosmos. And when we discovered the truth, it destroyed us.

Shepard: What truth?

Child: Organic life has no purpose. We are an accident.

Shepard: An accident...

Child: We were a simple pattern. Basic chemistry combining into unusual chaotic forms. When we mastered the galaxy we found there was nothing else remaining. We were lords over a domain that had no need for us. 

Shepard: That... but, why kill us? I don't understand! You found the edge and now you're punishing us for it?!

Child: No. We are saving you. Our children, our synthetic creations, did not suffer our qualms. They did not need to find purpose, they were created by us. We had given purpose to them. And that gave them the power to choose to rebel.

Shepard: You were beaten by your machines?

Child: You have seen the pattern yourself. The Geth. Your Rogue AI's. Even now, the pattern is repeating. As it did with us. As it always does. The war threatened to destroy everything. Our own weapons could wipe out suns, harness the dark energy of the universe that bound it together. We could have destroyed the galaxy.... we nearly did.

Shepard: The relay network....

Child: Our weapons. We realized that if the synthetics defeated us, they would not stop. All life, however simple, however small, would be destroyed. Eventually they would spread to other galaxies. They were infinite, could last indefinitely. And then the great accident, the great miracle of life, would be doomed.

Shepard: But you found a way to stop them! We're still here! Just tell me how!

Child: We became them.

Shepard: What?

Child: We could not defeat the synthetics. Not as we were, frail, mortal... flawed. So we evolved. Preserved ourselves as those you know as Reapers. We ascended. 
We became the synthesis of life and machine. And we destroyed our children.

Shepard: But why all THIS?

Child: Our time was over. We knew we had reached the crucible of our existence. But we will not allow those who followed in our footsteps to repeat our mistakes. You will create your own destroyers, if you are allowed, and doom ALL life again. We do not give you that chance.

Shepard: But you're not saving us! You're dooming us!

Child: No. We are preserving you. You use our technology, spread through the galaxy using the Mass Relays, never learning the secrets for yourselves. Thus we confine you to this galaxy, so that we may preserve you. We divide you, cripple you from within. Turn your own forms against you. Contain your mistakes. Then, we allow you to ascend to become one of us, and thus, safeguard the next cycle.

Shepard: We don't WANT to be preserved! We want to keep our own form.

Child: You cannot.

Shepard: The defining characteristic of organic life is that we make our own choices. Take that away, and we become no better than the machines you claim to protect us from. We can choose not to repeat the pattern.

Child: You have already repeated it. The geth are only the first step. And even now, they have risen to a state of being that will allow them to destroy you, should they choose.

Shepard: They are standing beside us. We still have a choice.

Child: Yes. You have more choice than you deserve. The fact that you are standing here proves that. Despite all our plans, you have found a way around them. There is no certainty that another cycle will not do the same. The solution is....flawed. And then there is the Crucible. It has changed things. Created new possibilities.

Shepard: I don't understand. What does it do? How does it work?

Child: We could rewrite the stars in our time. The Catalyst was our greatest achievement, a machine that could alter mass and rearrange matter at will. The Crucible focus's that. Takes what it is given and allows the Citadel to spread it. But I cannot control it so I cannot make that happen.

Shepard: Make what happen?

Child: What you came here to do. You can destroy us, if you like. Wipe out all synthetic life in the galaxy, including the Geth. Even you are partly synthetic. It will give them time to find a new solution....But your children WILL repeat the chaos.

Shepard: But the Reapers will be destroyed?

Child: Yes. You may also use it to control the Reapers. 

Shepard: So, the Illusive man was right...

Child: Yes, but he could not control us, for we already controlled him. The catalyst will let you merge with them. But it will destroy you, consume you utterly. 

Shepard: But the Reapers WILL obey me?

Child: Yes.... We will do as you will. But without us, the pattern will reappear. And you will eventually choose for us to begin the cycle again, this time perfected. There is however, a third option. 

Shepard: Which is?

Child: Synthesis. You are partly synthetic. Merge with the Catalyst and you can change all life in the galaxy to become as you are. As we are. Synthetic and Organic. The entire galaxy will ascend.

Shepard: The...whole Galaxy? That's impossible.

Child: Is it? You have seen it already. It is how we are able to combat you, fusing your forms with synthetic matter to create new DNA. You call them 'husks'.

Shepard: But...the whole galaxy....

Child: Everything in the universe is energy. Matter, mass, even time is nothing more than that. The Relays and Catalyst are simply tools that control that energy. Life will be preserved. The growth will be stopped. And there will be peace. 

Shepard: Why are you telling me this?

Child: You have done what no other organic has. You have proven that our solution can be overcome. We underestimated you before, thought of you as a mere inconvenience. But you are more than that. You have given us a new...perspective...Variables that we cannot forsee. 

Shepard: The perspective that organics don't like being murdered? Something tells me you haven't been paying attention...

Child: We have eradicated eons of life. You have done what none of them could. We do not confess that lightly. Whichever you choose, once the energy from the Catalyst is unleashed, it will destroy the mass relays. 

Shepard: But if we lose the relays... We'll have nothing. Whole civilizations will fall! 

Child: That is a possibility. 

Shepard: But... I don't... I can't....

Child: The paths are open, Shepard. You must choose.

*Shepard looks down at her bleeding side, then up at the raging battle above her head. We see ships of all sizes being shot down, Reapers crumbling under crushing fusillades of fire. You can now choose to go down one of the three paths. OR... you can wait...*

Shepard: I... can't make this choice...

Child: It is the choice you asked for. It is salvation. 

Shepard: No matter what, it damns us! Without the relays we will lose everything!

Child: Perhaps.

*We see the battle raging on Earth, squad members we have saved, armies we have recruited, all fighting desperately against overwhelming odds. Shepard, looks to the Catalyst.*

Child: You have no other way Shepard. Your followers trust in you. Make your decision.

Shepard: They didn't trust me to destroy us! You can stop this! You can choose to call them off! Just leave!

Child: No. If you will not choose a new solution, the cycle will continue. We will simply... reassess, for the future.

Shepard: It doesn't have to be that way! You can still give us a chance! 

Child: We cannot. Your followers trust you to save them. You cannot. Not as you wish. This fight is in vain. We are giving you a chance. One that is more than you deserve.

Shepard: I won't play God... 

Child: Your friends are dying Shepard. *The boy turns into the Virmire casualty* I know you'll do whatever it takes to get us through this, skipper.

Shepard: Go to hell...

Child: *turns into Anderson* Come on child. This is what you're here for! This is how we win! We can't fight them conventionally, you know that!

Shepard: **** you! I won't! I've beaten your kind already!

*We see the battle raging above them, the massed fleets being obliterated on both sides*

Child: *morphs into Hackett* We threw everything we had at Sovereign, and that was just one Reaper.... We just can't stand up against them. Not even together.

Shepard: No! We've broken the pattern! We've allied with the Geth! We've unified our species! It doesn't have to happen again!

Child: *turning into LI* You know we can't do this. We can't come this far just to throw it away! We're dying out here!

*Shepard can now choose one of the three options OR gamble everything...*

Child: *Illusive Man* Don't throw away everything over your ideals! This is the only solution!

Shepard: *turning to the child* Oh my god... you're scared... aren't you? 

Child: No.

*a Reaper above them is destroyed under a feirce volley of massed ships*

Shepard: Yes.... you are... You should have rolled over us by now.... But you didn't... 

Child: We have been merely delayed. If we must, we will destroy you all. We have offered you salvation.

Shepard: No.... you offered me a way to stop the fighting. You've never faced something like this before... The Illusive Man knew how to beat you, knew he could disrupt your armies... that's why you attacked him. Indoctrinated him. He came up with another option, he just didn't know it. He he thought he'd found control.... but he really found out how to turn that into Chaos.

Child: *aloof* We held the power to rewrite the stars. We are perfected. We cannot be defeated. Choose.

Shepard: Bull****. You're not perfected. You're MACHINES. Machines that sit on the edge of the galaxy, lurking where we can't find you when you're vulnerable. Vigil said it himself. That's why you USE us! Turn our own people into your armies! You can't beat us on your own!

Child: We are the salvation of all life. We have swept away all before us. We will do so again.

Shepard: By blindsiding your targets through the Citadel! By coercing us into a trap with the relays! You've always picked off your opponents independently! You used the same tactic with the Collectors! You've never had to stand and fight the combined might of a galaxy united!

Child: Your arrogance will only lead to your destruction. Choose.

Shepard: No. We killed Sovereign. We killed the Reaper at the collector base. We killed them on Rannoch, on Tuchanka, and down there! We stopped you from using the Alpha relay, and you're spread thin. The Illusive Man found out how to control your armies, disrupt your signal. That's why you attacked him, you were scared. We can beat you.

Child: Paltry victories.

Shepard: Maybe. But the combined might of the galaxy is holding you back. The Krogan and Turians on Palaven, the Quarians and GETH on Rannoch. And we'll do it, here, on Earth. 

Child: We have given you fair solutions Shepard. Options to fix the system. 

SHepard: No you've given me YOUR options. We've shown you we can win, and you're looking for a way out, a way to cripple us because you can't do it the way you used to. You failed at playing God and now you want me to wipe out your mistakes! Well I won't. I choose what we've ALWAYS chosen. I choose to take our damn chances.

Child: You would risk the eventual destruction of all life? Risk the future to the likes of the Geth? The Krogan? More like them will follow. Do you trust them?

Shepard: They put their trust in me to unify them. I trust them to finish the job. 

Child: We thought you were different Shepard. We thought you would understand. 
Shepard: Happy to disappoint.

*The child transforms into Harbringer* 

Harbringer: So be it. Shepard. *then disappears*

*Shepard collapses*

Shepard: Admiral? Hackett? Anyone... 

*we see the crews of multiple ships, the soldiers and charcaters fighting below all in the midst of hectic combat hearing Shepard's broadcast. What happens next is dependent on whether or not you have enough war assets/readiness to actually break the reapers here. If you don't the Reapers win, no questions asked, and the cycle remains unbroken.*

Shepard:... I don't know if you can hear me. But the Crucible is not an option... it won't save us... It won't bring us victory. I know a lot of our friends have died for this chance. But this isn't the end. We can beat them. You can beat them. They've always won by dividing us, turning each other against ourselves. But no longer. You CAN beat them. The ships next to you, the soldiers fighting by your side, can beat them. They aren't invulnerable. We beat them at Rannoch. We beat them at the Citadel. You can BEAT THEM NOW. You can break the back of the greatest threat the galaxy has ever known, because you, together, are the single greatest force this Galaxy has ever seen. Give them hell.

*The battle that follows is the epic conclusion, as Shepard watches, broken and bleeding, as everything he has put into this unified force throws itself at the Reapers. This is where all those decisions come to fruition. We want to see those War Assets fighting. The Destiny Ascension obliterating a Reaper with it's main gun before being swarmed over by Destroyers, the Geth armada pulling along side to save her. The Salarian STG calling in a biotic artillery strike on cluster of Reaper troops. Wrex and Garrus, on the front sharing a stern moment in cover, before nodding to each other, brothers in arms, before charging over the barricade. Back to back, they face down hordes of husks, Wrex shouting defiantly, "You think you can take our future!? You think YOU CAN TAKE MY CHILDREN?!"
We want to see the Quarian flotilla scrambling, all guns blazing, trying desperately to form a battleline, as one of the admirals quietly turns to their crew, signalling his ship all ahead full. "For the homeworld. Keela..." their words cut off as the live-ship rams a Reaper, exploding spectacularly and damaging two others. We want to see the Normandy frantically weaving through the wreckage, Joker and EDI yelling warnings to one another as the fleets explode around them. We want Tali leading a charge of Geth Primes against a Cannibal gun line. Rachni drones swarming over a Reaper Destroyer by the thousands, pulling it apart from the inside. We want to see Grunt wrestle a brute to the ground and unload his shotgun into his head.

Happy or sad, we just want to see those decisions play out. We want to see that what we did mattered. And as the battle unfolds, you are left with the Choice. Do you think you have enough? As Shepard bleeds out, watching all he/she loved go up in flames, do you take the risk? Provided you have enough manpower, can you break the back of the Reaper fleet, though at horrendous cost? Once the battle is over, and the truth of what the Illusive Man discovered is revealed, the remaining survivors get the word out that there is a way to disrupt the Reaper signal, scatter the Reaper armies. Or something*


I liked everything up until the end the fact that anderson dies even if you save him from TIM the fact that there was no paragon trigger at the end and further more on that I felt the game was lacking a bit in the paragon renagde triggers. I wanted to take out harbingare personaly either with an over the top weapon or the normandys main cannon. 

speaking of the normandy in ME2 you had the Normandy kicking some collector butt and that was way cool! this one I see four maybe five shots that I can't even confirm come from the normandy's main gun. what was the point of me upgrading everying in me2 just to have it striped away in me3? just saying but even that I can let go. my biggest problem with the game is that at the end I still have no answers to my questions, 1.) who built the reapers, citadel, the catalyst, the original plans for the cruciable. 2.) why was the normandy already in mass effect space *gone through the mass effect relay* before the battle was even close to being over. 3.) what happend to all the races of aliens I brought along for the fight. 4.) what about all the races I couldn't help like the asari who lost there home world all togeather. 5.) what happend after the relays exploded? like did  it kill everyone? what about admerial hackett I'd like to know what happened to him. 

I would also like to see a paragon ending a true paragon ending were shepard lives or something is given the rank of admerial or something, I can live with shepard dieing but I'd like to see it other wise. thats it for me I think for now. also where can I post feedback on the MP cause seriously someone needs to nurf the banshee's there tearing people apart to easily. you can't get a beat on them with that flash step move they pull, and the one hit kill is really really really lame even the brutes are easier to avoid then the banshee's. I've got a level 7 widow and I barly put a dent in there barrier shields. if I'm luckey.  OH and where is the Hammer/mako I would like to see ground combat and exploreation again, and I think there was a miss operatunity for space comabat, just saying on that as well. oh and whats with the lacking of characters, the roster this time around felt really small.... and thali's face why can't we see it? seriously? after all that? give us a bone....

Modifié par TheRazgrez, 17 mars 2012 - 07:12 .

[petipas4141]

adidaz wrote...

I would like to see a happy ending or at least have the option to get one.
Like Shepard being able to live in peace with the love interest, and maybe even having started a family.
Knowing that Shepard worked so hard through the trilogy to achive peace and happiness, to unite every species and help rebuild their homes, it would be nice to see that happen and know that your decisions paid off.

for sure!

[orgnumber1]

Number 1 concern: the ending made me feel like everything I'd done in the last 3 games was for nothing, and that control was merely an illusion. I feel the ending should give me a sense that what I've done accomplished something, and feel like a real resolution rather than a quick "End the game" cheat sequence. Closure is needed for we the fans to be able to bid Commander Shepherd a fond farewell.
Also, romances seem rather shallow in nature. Love scenes are only achievable with certain characters, and even then most do not seem like true love scenes. I think players would really respond to a more intimate union with their characters, even those that do not (re)join the squad. The Ashley/Liara love scenes were well crafted, and it seems only right that the same care be taken with the rest, so that we might have the same closure.

While I feel a little whiney for making this request, I feel an option should be added to save at least one of the "doomed" characters (i.e. Thane, Mordin, Legion, Anderson). Legion was, personally, my favorite squad member, and not having a say in whether he lived or died added to my feelings of powerlessness, a theme which was magnified tenfold by the ending. I know that character death is immenient and adding a "save everyone option" is implausible (though desirable), but at least in both of the previous installments we had a say (i.e. Virmire, Suicide Mission, Samara suicide attempt). I'm sure many would appreciate the same courtesy.

Other small concerns include lack of familiar locals, such as Omega, Illium, and the galactic core. Familiarity is the most comforting thing for a fan in my experience. We want to be able to say "Hey, I remember that!" especially in a game supposedly a culmination of our efforts. The same can be said of Shepherd's quarters. Things like the helmet I picked up at the Normandy's crash site, the prothean artifact with no apparent function, the dog tags Liara gave to me after the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, or the photo of Ashley/Liara/Kaiden should have been included in the findable inventory for Shepherd's cabin. These tiny things add to the sense that Normandy is, and will always be home.

Finally, many of my fellow fans and I were put off that literally NONE of the "dirty dozen" (ME2 Squad - excluding Garrus and Tali) returned to help fight the Reapers. The attitude is "Why even introduce these characters if you're not going to do anything with them?" While their roles as support are somewhat appeasing, they are far from satisfactory. Other than the fact they are alive, I didn't feel like these people were loyal, or even had much affection for me. The roster should, in my humble opinion, be expanded to accomodate at least two of these major characters who have been relegated to largely peripheral roles.

On a personal note, I would like to see a space battle we get to participate in, flying either Normandy or a starfighter, as I am curious about how space combat works in the ME universe. I am also quite intrigued by Major Coats and would like to explore his history and role in ME3, being as he was included in the first trailer. But this is just me, and don't expect these small interests of mine to be important enough to warrent inclusion.

All that said, I think Mass Effect 3 is a beautifully written story, much improved from both ME1 and ME2. I applaud the worthy efforts of all the BW staff, and sincerely thank you for opening this thread. It is a comfort and a blessing to know our opinions matter. Though I've only been a fan for a short while, I have deeply enjoyed Mass Effect as a series, and hope that these notes are sufficient to securing change for the better. Thank you for your consideration. You have restored my hope for the future.

[daigakuinsei]

Indigo the Cat wrote...

Sixth, the romance sub-plots felt almost like they were thrown in last second as a side-thought.  Commander Shepard really deserves a more satisfying relationship to her/his lover.  Also, consider pet-names... it's weird when your romantic partner continues to call you by your title or last name (though it makes sense with Garrus, he's a turian), even after you've shared bed and bodies with each other.  Adding a few more same-sex relationship options would also be a good idea, too, and starting them in Mass Effect 2 wouldn't be a bad idea, either.  (Also, why have we not seen any female Batarians or Turians?)

Disclosure: I've only done the MShep-Kaidan romance, but I thought that one was great.  I wouldn't have changed one thing about it.  Bioware pulled off something that felt honest, tender, and simultaneously not a retcon.

[Ragebourne]

Add Epilogues to ending, restore cut dialogue with catalyst AI and andersons cut dialogue. My major irks.

[PaulSX]

I do not have too many problems with the game itself, but indeed the endings are 99% identical which eliminated the all the choices we've been agonizing since the first game. I can understand that BioWare has to do so to make sure the new players do not miss any thing from the series but pissing off most old players is not a wise move. BioWare should consider releasing an epilogue for the game to really answer all the questions and make the story more personalized at the end.

[daigakuinsei]

petipas4141 wrote...

adidaz wrote...

I would like to see a happy ending or at least have the option to get one.
Like Shepard being able to live in peace with the love interest, and maybe even having started a family.
Knowing that Shepard worked so hard through the trilogy to achive peace and happiness, to unite every species and help rebuild their homes, it would be nice to see that happen and know that your decisions paid off.

for sure!

+2

[Indigo the Cat]

Aeyl wrote...

Do these changes only deal with the ending? If not then here's some feedback from me...

Thane Krios.

There were hints of a possible treatment (a good number of hints) after/during ME 2 and before ME 3. It'd be nice if there was some way to follow up on those.

I think that would be a pretty awesome idea, although not 100% necessary, as Thane's romance story deals more with coming to terms with the inevitable death of your lover.

However!  This sub-plot should not be ignored.  I think a good addition to it would be Miss Shepard taking on the role of mother and mentor of Kolyat.  Thane would have loved it, and she and him worked well together when reading from the religious text while Thane was dying.  The sub-plot would continue from there, with Shepard and Kolyat developing a relationship of mother and son.

Modifié par Indigo the Cat, 17 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[AmayaChan]

Allow me to be that broken record once more,
I absolutely loved the campaign and the combat was absolutely amazing! However, my main issue(s) with the game goes as follows;

There was a galactic supply of build towards the ending... then it became incredibly anti climatic (imo). Really, it was the way the story went on about Shepards death that frustrated me. You have little to no options on the outcome of the trilogy. Even if Shepard isn't truly "dead" the ending was incredibly unclear. Even if it was all a "dream", it makes the game feel very incomplete. There's also the lack of effect when it comes to the choices you've made from the previous installments.

Another issue is the fact that out of the 16 endings... they aren't very different... at all - this was upsetting. It would at least be nice to get ONE good ending out of the depressing bunch, or at least one that makes sense.

The other minor concern I had, the lack of emotion presented when Thane dies. Yes it was expected, however, it seemed as though he was COMPLETELY forgotten. No mourning whatsoever. Even Shepards that romanced him didn't seem to really care. It was almost as though he never died to begin with.

Lastly, I wasn't a fan of companions talking AT you... I found myself zoning out and not really caring about what they are saying...

Modifié par AmayaChan, 17 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[chibilombax]

Dr_Hello wrote...

chibilombax wrote...

I was honestly prepared to have my Shepard die. So having them die isn't exactly an issue with me. You see their hand bloody. You're almost ready to just say goodbye to your character. We said goodbye to all the characters. And yet we didn't really have a moment as a player to say goodbye to the character we've been playing as for years.

If somehow I got the golden ticket of Bioware and it was up to me to change the endings. Well I would've had Shepard die next to Anderson. If War Assets were really really really high they'd live. The relays wouldn't be touched. Nor the Geth/Edi. But maybe I'm just being greedy. I apologize if it comes out that way.

Is talking about other games okay? Well there was Final Fantasy 10-2. The main plot is to save the world and try to find Tidus from the game before it. You only found him however if you got 100 percent. Making the happy ending a result of some very hard work. ( Unless you used a game shark but that's not the point I'm trying to make )

I know some players enjoyed the endings. Perhaps to try and keep them happy you could have those be the "minimum assets" endings. So they could still see them. It honestly just feels like a waste of time to do all the side quests and get the same thing someone could if they breezed through the game. I know copying the ME2 formula might not feel right. But that's what made the finale of ME2 so brilliant. You got to see your hard work pay off in the Suicide Mission.

It's not really asking for cupcakes and rainbows. It just feels if Shepard has to die it'd be nice to know it wasn't in vain. Similar to how it was done in Dragon Age Origins. Mass Effect 3 is still a game. You can try to make it a movie all you want but people don't go buying DLC for movies or books. It's heart breaking to see so much hope happen between the galactic races just to have it diminished in under five minutes. In Origins you had the option to kill your Warden off. But there was a optional way around it so you could continue the story with your original Warden in Awakening. Even if they died you could just play a Orlesian Warden and it would have an effect on the story.

Also I do hate to bring it up. But Mass Effect, while it is a fictional setting. It was always easy to believe the settings techno babble. For me anyway. I honestly cannot think up how a beam from a space station super weapon could change the DNA of everything in the galaxy. If I have to be honest it sounded silly. I can't imagine anybody wanting to continue the story even without Shepard if things are in the Dark Ages. But this is just how I see it. I cannot speak for everybody.

I read you were hoping fans could use their imagination. I say that's okay but it's hurtful if that's all the fans can do to find some sort of comfort in the end. It was similar to how some people say pets or family members go to heaven and that's how they find comfort after they pass away. Okay that might be an extreme comparison. But if you still want imagination. How about listening in on the Indoctrination Theory the fans have thought up? They pointed out a lot of hints to support it. It's quite impressive even if you don't believe it. However again it's sad they had to do this to not feel depressed. If you want imagination you can have Shepard wake up in rubble as hinted in the cinematic after you pick Destroy. Have them charge at the beam and we could be left to think "What happened after the Reapers were destroyed?" But this kind of goes against the "closure on the galaxy" I know people are talking about. I'm just trying to please as many people as possible. Even the ones who were fine with the endings and insulted the hurt fans.

It's just really depressing that fans are willing to accept a theory saying "It was all a dream the whole thing didn't happen!" Ignoring the game as a whole as a dream.

On an emotional standpoint the endings were cruel. Players had to watch characters go through noble endings. Which were done in such a great way that it's just cruel that the emotions you felt don't seem to matter in the end. Fans are okay with sad endings. Mordin, Thane, Legion. There's so much praise for their endings. Shepards however just honestly seems rushed and you're left with way more questions then answers. Such as the Relays possibly exploding and wiping out all life. Like in Arrival. Or how will the fleet get back to their homes? Even just thinking of everybody starving to death in space in the Sol System. That's really just mean and makes Shepard look like a coward for giving up and dying.

I'm sorry if this is a long post. This is 2 weeks of my thoughts now that the Anger stage I was in is gone. I'm sure others will cover anything I forgot.

Okay I'm just going to end this with one question a friend of mine wanted to suggest. How about a fan contest for Tali's face? I've seen a lot of people didn't really care for her look in game. You could have a contest similar to what you did for the default Fem Shep. Fanart being sent in and the best one gets put into the game. It'll be a gift to the fans by the fans.

@Chibilombax,

I second your comments. Great points you made. It seems there are commonalities in what many of us are saying.
Here's mine if you'd like to read: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10098213/24#10104010

Aw thank you. ( Sorry if this floods the forums. I can't help it if someone mentions me I say thank you. ) I'll be sure to read yours too.

[orgnumber1]

Also, could we get where we use that card table on deck 3? That'd be sweet.

[Keletian2]

Normandy being in transit "magically with your team" through the relay definetly urked me the most. Logistically its impossible and theres no possible motivation I can see for your crew doing this.

Secondly I feel the devs didn't funnly consider the repocussions of the entire armada being trapped in the sol system. Not only would it be impossible to support such a fleet "IE theyd all die" in all liklyhood it would result in war over the planet for survival with nowhere to go.

and finally the ending makes all your decisions over 3 games meaningless, Everyone and every race you interacted with, are either dead, will never interact with other races for thousands of years, or "due to the relay destruction" cannot benifit from anything done by you. Quariens are a perfect example of this, doomed in pretty much every ending.

[NubXL]

I'm honestly not of the opinion that we should be forcing your hand to change any of this.  It's your baby.  You can do whatever you want with it.  That being said, I definitely had issues with the ending like many others.

I imagine it's all been posted already, but I'll tell you what I first thought as I finished it myself.  "That can't be it.  What happened to everybody?  Not even an epilogue?"

You took us through this robust universe that we all fell in love with through your trilogy and then abruptly ended everything in a way that makes it look like all the work we did was for nothing.  I wanna know what happened with Wrex, Eve, and the rest of the Krogan.  I wanna know if the Quarians and Geth had a future on Rannoch.  I wanna know if Palaven and Thessia were ultimately conquered by the Reapers.  We've invested so much into these characters and places, so it feels like a kick to the quad when you cast all of this aside as some kind of non-essential material.

What about the Normandy?  Why was it making a relay jump out of the Sol system?  There was no need.  Everything that needed doing was around Earth.  Why were my partners, who had just been on Earth, also on the Normandy?  It doesn't make any sense.  I'm not quite sure what you guys were trying to convey with that, other than showing that our crew survived, but it left a gaping plot hole in its wake.

I'm also curious about what happened to all the promised variety that the endings would contain.  It seems like you guys did a complete 180 by narrowing it down to 3, which really felt like 1.

I'll go ahead and copy/paste the negatives from my fan review as well...

The Bad
- Still no real focus on Hanar, Drell, Elcor, Volus, Vorcha, or even Yahg.  I'd include Batarians in this, but it's my understanding that they were largely exctinct by the time the Reapers reached Earth.  I would have loved to see the Hanar homeworld.
- Dialogue felt skimpy outside of the tree. Sometimes it works, having dialogue like Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2, but many of the times it occured I couldn't help but think it would be better in the traditional tree setting.
- We didn't get to retake Omega with Aria.  Recruiting the mercs would have been way cooler in that setting.
- Final battle left much to be desired.  ME1's battle for the Citadel had the perfect balance of chatter and action. The battle around Earth in ME3 was 90% short CGI vid.  Drawing it out another few minutes with communication between fleets as they attacked could have done wonders for the scene.  I was also surprised at the lack of music for much of the scene.  Whole lotta pew pew pew, but not much else.  Very few species/regiments were shown during the final battle as well.  I recruited quite the motley alien crew.  I would have liked to see some of them.
- Too many old characters were sent to email hell, or had no appearance whatsoever.  I get it, there's only so much you can do and you did include a lot, but no Gianna Parasini?
- Nothing but a couple mentions of Harbinger, unless he was supposed to be the Reaper at the very end, the one who shoots you.  I would have greatly appreciated a dialogue similar to the Sovereign dialogue on Virmire.  If not that... I dunno.  Something! 
- No little blue children.

The Ugly
- Tali's unmasking.  You created a picture perfect moment to reveal her face.  Tali and Shepard standing together, looking out on the horizon of Rannoch.  She takes off her mask, but you revert to the camera from behind.  It doesn't take a Talimancer to see what a squandered opportunity that was.  The substitute was incredibly disappointing.  A shoop of a stock photo.  Come on, guys.  You're better than that.  This was the lowest and most egregious point of the game for me. As far as I'm concerned, we still don't know what she looks like.

Modifié par NubXL, 17 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[Bevik]

I would buy a whole other game if I could do every quest in all three games and get an ending where my LI and I get some sort of epic ending where we live happily ever after...

I just picture the finale happening. Fade to black, one last shadow dream. Follow the voice. At the end your LI is standing there arms spread for you (if no LI then the little kid can be standing there wanting to be picked up), you run into their open arms. Fade to white. You wake up in rubble with your team finding you. CGI cinematic of you limping over a hill with garrus supporting you and all the people in the world/fleet cheer for you. Epilogue with Shephard either sharing a moment with his LI in their house on earth, or if no LI then show him training N7 recruits... or something...

I love sappy endings to epics though.

It sucks that this was used already, but an ending with shephard dying and Liara throwing rubble out of the way to get to him, and then mind melding with him using that clip from right before the final battle... sort of like easing his passing with a serene final image. That would have been absolutely tear-jerking. Has been used though. = \\