7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Johnnycide]

I miss the vehicle exploration and combat from ME1 (well the combat in that one) and ME2, there is the Atlas, but the only time you get to use it before major combat is in Grissom Academy, the other times the Atlas appears you either accidentally destroy it or combat is over by the time you free it up.

Edit: Also, I understand Mass Effect 3 needed to be able to stand on its own, but given how Harbinger was portrayed as the main Antagonist in ME2 and then stressed this role in The Arrival DLC, I found it odd that there isn't even an exchange of words with Harbinger in this game. The Reaper on Rannoch saying Harbinger mentioned you, doesn't seem sufficient given how big of a role he/she/it had in ME2. 

Modifié par Johnnycide, 17 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[Danit]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Do NOT go with Indoc theory. You guys are the masters of storytelling. Come up with something none of us saw coming. The lame "Indoc Theory" is just as crappy and full of holes as the "real" ending.

Plus, the picture of Tali was a HUGE opportunity to make the reveal of the century, and you flushed it down the crapper with a stupid photoshopped stock image.

but going with something we didnt see coming is how we got the current endings D:

[Raizon]

Jessica Merizan
1. Allow us to get our hands on that Harbinger fella, Shepard vs Harbinger..let us have an EPIC BOSS BATTLE one last time, I don't care for bittersweet, I care for revenge, retaliation and get back! If it's to "Video gamey" FINE, that's why I'm a gamer! I love video gamey!

2. Probably most important to me
Don't destroy or change the universe I've fallen in love with over the last 5 years, please. I've given my time, money, sweat and tears to this Mass Effect Universe and I'M willing to give plenty more if that Universe is still there without "radical" changes! I want to experience a universe through Arias eyes, Liara as a new shadow broker, a universe without REAPERS looming over my head!

Modifié par Raizon, 17 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[rahf226]

The way the game ended would have been acceptable if it wasn't such a slap in the face. During all three games we were made to believe that if you tried hard enough everything would work out right for our hero. Only to find that at the end none of our decisions really mattered.

I don't mind a heroic sacrifice as long as it doesn't come out of the blue. Like the movie Armageddon, as the movie progressed and things went wrong I just knew that in the end it would be decided with a heroic sacrifice.

My biggest problem with the ending is that I wanted my shepard to have the happy ending. My femshep made alot of sacrifices in the games all to stop the reapers. I think she deserved her victory and spending life with Liara and a few little blue children.

I haven't played a Male shep so I dont know about the unmasked tali situation but from what I hear little to no effort went into showing the fans what she really looked like. It is supposed like they just did a crappy photo manip.

[musicaleCA]

My biggest problem? You lied to us. BioWare, and EA, outright broke your promise to provide the product as advertised. This isn't a game where our choices matter. In the end, all those hundreds of hours of choice, thought, reflection, all was for nought.

That's my issue. You can fix the game by making our choices actually matter in the end. I refer you to this article:

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/6/

Fleshing out Tali, little blue babies, that'd be icing on the cake. I for one do want a happy ending. I also want a god-awful everything went to hell we're all dead ending, and the shades of grey in between. Not the forced into a hole, railroaded ending we've got now.

The most depressing thing is that I don't think I can bring myself to buy anything more from BioWare or EA until this is fixed. I feel like I've been scammed out of my money, not much unlike how a victim of a savvy con artist feels.

Reading that...I'd feel like I'm being overly harsh, but in this situation, I'm amazed that it's more or less on target. *sigh*

Modifié par musicaleCA, 17 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[Ticondurus]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Do NOT go with Indoc theory. You guys are the masters of storytelling. Come up with something none of us saw coming. The lame "Indoc Theory" is just as crappy and full of holes as the "real" ending.

AGREED ^^^.  The Idoc theory is a band-aid fan fix.  You guys can do better, for sure.

Modifié par Ticondurus, 17 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[Daedalus1773]

EDIT: Fixed Word paste formatting problems

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to provide feedback. It is genuinely appreciated.

First: Please forget the Indoctrination Theory. I know it's an easy-out, but as soon as you start calling into question the foundational reality of your game, you're entering into "was the entire season of Dallas a dream??" territory.  Also, the Prothean VI flat out tells you in Cerberus HQ that you're NOT indoctrinated.  Some kind of explanation of why TIM can effect some kind of control over you w/ indoctrination-like "oily shadows" would be nice, though.

Second: We're not all after a happy ending. A perfectly happy ending with ice cream & krogan birthday cake (LOL @penny arcade) would not make sense for this story. People should die. Shepard should PROBABLY die, but there should be some kind of "perfect path" that players could take combining choices and Effective Military Strength rating that allow Shepard to survive.  Accompanied with varying degrees of good or bad consequences for her friends & the other races of the galaxy, depending on the choices they made thru ME 1-3 regardless of whether or not Shepard survives.  I'm thinking whoever your two squadmates are should die when you charge the beam, even if you brought your LI (exception for EDI, who'd still be alive on the Normandy were her humanoid body destroyed). Other team members could die throughout the course of the London fight, depending on choices you made throughout the games (see "Fourth," below).  Under no circumstances should the entire Mass Relay network be destroyed - that's worse than killing Shepard, that's effectively killing the entire ME universe & galactic civilization.

Third: Keep the ending basically the same right up through the death scene with Anderson. It is beautiful. It choked me up, and Jennifer Hale's voice acting the mortally wounded Shepard is amazing to watch & listen to. However, at that point, cut everything out from the moment the white lift takes you up to Star Child. This is where things de-rail for me, and the instant the kid appeared I could literally feel the game shift sideways in my gut & my brain - it was like I was suddenly playing a different game. If you listen to no other suggestion, please - cut out Star Child ENTIRELY. 

Once the Citadel arms are open, have Admiral Hackett report that he's successfully uplinked into the Crucible control system. At this point, have the ending split off into numerous cutscene & radio-chatter paths, reflecting a decision matrix that takes into account the players total Effective Military Strength (EMS) score & major plot choices they've made throughout the games. I wouldn't presume to spell out every detail of every possible ending, but I like to imagine something reflecting 4 to 8 versions of various degrees of failure or success between the Worst & Best endings that look something like this:

                Worst Ending (EXTREMELY low EMS under the Minimum line) - You see several Reapers converging on the handful of dreadnoughts remaining that are guarding the Crucible. Admiral Hackett begins to give the order on his bridge to fire the Crucible when his ship is destroyed by a Reaper beam, cutting him off. A dying Shepardlays next to Anderson's body & watches in horror as the Crucible takes multiple simultaneous direct hits from the Reapers, and is destroyed. Shepard lays impotently while we all listen to confused & frantic radio chatter calling for a retreat back through the Charon Relay, perhaps with squabbling over which homeworld to fall back to. Galactic fleet splits up in retreat. On the radio you can hear the screams of your squadmates dying in the fighting in London. Fade to black as Shepard dies knowing the full extent of her failure.  Galaxy gets Harvested. Get the Load Game screen. 

                Slightly higher rating (above Minimum) - You see several Reapers converging on the handful of dreadnoughts remaining, guarding the Crucible. Admiral Hackett begins to give the order on his bridge to fire the Crucible and the order is carried out. As the Crucible begins to activate, his ship & the last of the fleet you brought is cut to pieces. Crucible activates, and EMP-effect goes off - Reapers begin to die in  orbit. Cut to ground scenes, where most of your teammates & the Normandy meet a horrible end (see "Fourth" below). EMP washes over the earth, belatedly destroying all Reaper forces after your teams demise. Crucible fires a beam into the Charon Relay, which speads to other relays & other systems (Relay NOT destroyed). Show or have radio chatter describe Reapers dying on Palaven & Thessia.

                Another couple other versions with various degrees of death & carnage inflicted; Shepard dies. MY ideal ending (for my game) involves different cutscenes & radio chatter on the ground showing your other squaddies fighting together (and dying together in some cases), other races working together as hope fades on the battlefield - geth, quarian, elcor, rachni, vorcha, mercenary, krogan, salarian, asari, human & turians fighting side by side, rallied by Garrus on the ground as the chain of command collapses. Normandy providing futile air support with a wing of fighters & frigates, drawing Reaper fire & barely escaping doom.  Your friends & allies thinking Shepard died running for the beam. Then Shepard has her scene w/ TIM & Anderson, talks to Admiral Hackett & opens the arms of the Citadel. She & Anderson have their scene together, both mortally wounded. Admiral Hackett calls in to report he can successfully access the Crucible weapon now, which charges up & fires.  Reapers being destroyed in orbit and on the ground, with your friends & squaddies saved. Cutscenes of dreadnoughts & live ships about to be destroyed suddenly saved. Shepard watching from the Crucible control room next to Anderson's body, smiling sadly, then she dies. (Optional, could survive if your score is high enough for those that want happy endings).  Rejoicing on the ground. Shepard did it! Shepard did it!  Admiral Hackett can't raise Shepard on the comm.... Cut to a memorial service on the Citadel (back in Citadel Space) attended by your surviving friends from ME1-3, with a statue of Shepard being raised to counterpoint the Krogan statue.  Liara (my LI)is with child as she gives a hopeful & wistful eulogy to Shepard (perhaps using the memory box that I earlier told her to write herself) & all those lost in the fight to save the galaxy, that is interspersed with scenes from around the galaxy of the good Shepard has accomplished - Geth & Quarians rebuilding their homeworld together; Wrex & the krogan repopulating Tuchanka & negotiating hard but peacefully for colony worlds; Asari, Humans & Turians rebuilding their homeworlds with alien assistance; diplomatic relations being established with the Rachni Queen.  All thanks to Shepard, who has finally freed the galaxy from the scourge of the Reaper cycles & is now free from the burdens she carried. Camera pulls back, past  the ongoing bustle of the Citadel, through the arms, sliding by ships of various races repairing in orbit. Zooming out & out, howing the entire majestic Milky Way Galaxy. Cut to credits.

                Perfect rating - Reapers attempt to converge on the Crucible & are beat back by a strong presence of surviving Alliance, Turian, Asari, Geth & Quarian dreadnoughts. Harbinger lifts off from his position guarding the beam to bolster the attack on the Crucible; you hear radio chatter from Garrus/Miranda/Liara/someone remarking that this is their chance & ordering any surviving squadmates into the beam. Hackett gives the order to fire the Crucible, Reapers die. Shepard smiles, goes unconscious.  Shepard, Anderson & TIM are discovered in the Citadel by surviving squad members who rush to their aid.   

Fourth: Let the player utilize in some capacity their entire squad on the Earth assault. Appoint missions to your crew that aren't accompanying you personally, as in ME2. If this would be too difficult to go back and change, insert a cutscene after you collapse next to Anderson showing forces getting overrun on the ground. Maybe show your crew thinking you died, in shock. Have Garrus or Miranda (or Liara or Wrex or Grunt) rally your surviving friends to step up and "FINISH THE MISSION!", and lead another charge on the beam to accomplish what they think Shepard died trying to do (a possibly explanation for how they get to Shepard before she dies up there). Bullet lists of other random things I'd love to see or hear mentioned on radio chatter (I realize some of it is contradictory):

                - Jack & her biotic squad (with Miranda?) throwing from long distance a huge biotic artillery strike on a mass of Reaper ground forces that are about to overrun the FOB.  

                - Your squad (sans the ones you took w/ you into the beam) throws themselves into the mix to save FOB, slinging their powers & generally having a Crowning Moment of Awesome. Depending on whether you unlocked their power during gameplay, some of them die. Jack &  her squad get flash-friend by a Reaper beam; others as well.

                - Rachni forces borrowing up out of the ground & opening up distracting fronts against Reaper forces, keeping them off balance.

                - A horde of vorcha, mercenaries and mechs descending on a crumbling flank from dropships to shore up resistance & push back the Reapers, preventing collapse. 

                - Long range Elcor artillery clearing a path for another run at the beam?

                - Small Hanar ships bursting out of the Thames River at a key moment. "THE ENKINDLER FIGHTS FOR THE SHEPARD! WE FIGHT FOR THE ENKINDLER!" Swarming past Javik if you have him. Keeping Harbinger's beam busy for a bit.

                - Wrex/Grunt & his krogan charging in to make a hole to the beam. If Eve survived, they have enough troops to survive the attempt.  If not, they are overrun? 

                - Salarian STG buddy sniping a reaper ground force just before it kills your momentarily incapacitated LI in a firefight.

Bottom line -  ANYTHING (good or bad) that follows the guiding principle of being influenced by the decisions you actually made during the games.

Modifié par Daedalus1773, 17 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[Aduro]

I agree with many of the things said. (The following are based around the ending - I think the rest of the game is more or less perfect. Though, filtering the missions into two brackets based on completion would be nice.)

1) Give us back our choices - especially with regards to at least arguing the god-child's arguments. [If at all possible, I would suggest removing the god-child entirely. I still don't know why it took that form. Has it been watching Shepard, can it read his mind?]

2) Remove plot holes and make sure the plot is logical.

3) War Assets should be seen, we spent the whole game building them up after all (I don't know why, but I was really looking forward to seeing the Volus bomb squad thing XD)

4) Show us the fruits of all of our choices. [again, we spent 3 whole games building them up].

5) Varied endings - from abysmal (what we have now, relays destroyed and everyone stranded in sol) to perfect (reapers dead, relays intact, shep lives happily ever after with LI) and everything in between.

6) Epilogue and Closure.

There doesn't need to be something super long, but little clips to suggest that our choices affected the galaxy is what we (I?) want to see.

For instance, I think something like this would give closure and satisfaction with regards to what we did with the Quarians and Geth:

Quarians:
[If Quarians survive]
They are seen constructing buildings on their homeworld.
[If you reconciled them with the Geth]
There is an additional scene of a young Quarian [Lia’Vael, if you help her on the Citadel] trying to lift heavy equipment, she begins to fall under its weight when a Geth helps.
Geth: Do you need assistance, creator Lia’Vael?
The Quarian stares at the Geth for a second, as if to debate whether to accept the help of their former enemy.
Quarian: [A little unsure, but still willing] Yes, thank you.
- The Geth’s ocular components twirl around a little, it almost seems happy.

[If Quarians do not survive, but Geth do]
At the Citadel, a Geth terminal walks onto the Presidium. There is anxiety with its presence. A Volus walks over to it. The way he walks suggests his displeasure at the situation. He gets close and confrontational with the Geth.
[A C-Sec officer comes to see what’s happening]
Volus: What are you doing here, clanless AI?
Geth: Have we done something to offend you?
Volus: You should not be here-
[Volus is cut off by C-Sec officer, who tries to push the Volus away. The Volus loses balance and falls to the floor.]
Officer: No, you haven’t done anything wrong.
The Geth’s ocular components whirl, it seems confused but accepting of the answer.

[Quarians do not survive] A small scene of Shepard (if he lives), or a Quarian who escaped, on Rannoch - mourning their loss.

Also, a losing option would be neat. Something along the gist of:
[If you lose because of inadequate war assets]
[The reapers are shown destroying the entire fleet, one race at a time. Earth is gone. The Reapers retreat… -50,000 years later- A new set of races are shown consulting with each other at the Citadel. It’s a war room of some sort. At the center is Liara’s time capsule, with Shepard’s image coming out of it. The Reapers are there, it is now the end of their cycle.
If you have nearly enough war assets to win, you deal enough damage to the Reaper fleet to weaken them for the next cycle. The next cycle prevails, and Shepard is regarded as the reason they stood any chance – the sacrifices of the last cycle mattered.
If you had far too few war assets, the cycle continues…forever.


edit: 0) Tying in Indoctrination Theory - if it can be done well enough
to not be absolutely confusing to players not familiar with it - would
be mind blowing :D. Continue from there if possible. If Shepard succumbs
to Indoctrination (chooses green or blue) then use that in the story -
perhaps having his squad needing to reluctantly fight past him or mourn
him and carry on.

Modifié par Aduro, 17 mars 2012 - 11:40 .

[Jobrill]

In addition to my suggestions earlier in the thread, I would ask you to keep one thing in mind: Happily Ever After is not intrinsically boring or insipid. Some great stories end Happily Ever After. Certainly some ME3-caliber stories. If Frodo and Sam can live happily ever, I don't think it's too much to ask to make that POSSIBLE for Shepard and his/her LI.

It doesn't have to be the only option, but I don't think it's too much to ask to be an option.

[SCJ90]

The ending to be a litle like ME2s ending, their it felt like you and your entire team could die at any secound. My heart still races everytime I play that ending. It was really well done and you had controll and could the leader that you are!

[bwFex]

For those who dislike the Indoc Theory:

There's a lot more to the indoctrination idea than "it was all just a bad dream." Indoctrination is a pretty significant part of this trilogy, and is considered one of the most powerful weapons the reapers have. It makes sense that Shepard would have to face it down sooner or later. It doesn't invalidate the entire trilogy or make them wonder if the whole thing was a bad dream: as soon as the player wakes up in the London rubble, they immediately know that the past 15 minutes were an indoctrination.

As for filling holes - isn't that exactly what we're trying to do here? There's fairly convincing evidence of indoctrination all the way throughout ME3 (plus some foreshadowing in ME1 and ME2).

Modifié par bwFex, 17 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Bob3terd]

"I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C"

on a sarcastic note: I enjoyed the game but i found the ending awful because of red, blue, green

on a more serious note:

The ending really failed to satisfy fore several key reasons:

1. Lack of choice or probably more appropriate to say lack of actual consiquence and variation to those actions. We dont actually see the impact our actions are we are told what they will be (by a reaper god kid, a untrustable sourse) but we dont actually see any difference.

2. Deus ex machina: Latin: "god out of the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device
whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object. -wikipedia

A god character not even alluded to before, appears and then forces the conclusion of the story abrudtly in the same ways, regardless of the events, sub plots and or actions previous to this. This in no way can be considered good writing.

3. Teleportations/plot holes/lack of cohesive logic. Squad mates teleporting has been explained before so i wont get into that as well as the plot holes but theres one thing i really want to talk about. A so called "god" than lets face it is extremly irony resistant or at best down right stupid. The idea a synthetic would destroy organics every 50k years to prevent them from creating syntheticsm who would them destroy them is so unbelievably idiotic. I mean we are supposed to believe he places a higher worth on organic life? Are we really suggesting a super synthetic being would impose more value on a different kind of life (from itself no less) for the minerals and nature of its construction? By that same logic you can condone genecide of a species to stop it members from killing each other. Life is life, if one species or synthetic wipes out another who cares if they are synthetic or organic thats nature. If a being has the same lvl or sentience does it matter if its wires or nerves?

And heres the big thing i get this is supposed to be about cosmiscm the idea we are fighting the inevitable etc blah blah. But we arnt THEY are, if they are so sure its invevitable why are they bothering? They wipe out the galaxy every 50k years to stop this but in their own words "it is inevitable" so why bother, why bother wiping out one galaxy when there are millions upon billions of others in the galaxy? By the logic of their own argument the reapers might as well not bother >.<!

4. Character destruction. Faced with the above what does shepard do? He unquestioningly goes along with the assertions of the reaper boss, at no point does he really question this is you dont even get an investigate option. What on earth has been the point of fighting the reapers, if in the last 5 minutes of game play shepard goes "wipe out civilization as we know it and side with the reapers logic...... sure why not?" Could we at least have had an option to say no (even if it means we lose) so atleast we know the galaxy died in a roar of defiance rather than a wimper of submission?

5. Speculation for speculations sake. That phrase that has now become infamous amongst me and my comrades is very much evidence of lack of artistic direction. If you try to provoke "polarise" or encourage specualtion for nothing more than attention you are NOT an artist. Great authors, artists and movie makers made well crafted films etc, beloved for what they where because of the labour of love that went into the the effort that went into them to make convey great story, beauty and emotion did so because of the skill of the craftsmanship that went into them. Bioware tried to achieve the end result by skipping the most important part, and in the end sacrificed it in order to get the result.

The evidence suggests there is no infered meaning, that the ending is needlessly ambigous simply to encourage speculation all of which is totally pointless as there is nothing to actually speculate about.

6. Most importantly lack of resolution. I might not have cared so much if ME3 was a stand alone game i would have thought well thats silly and left it at that. It is not a stand alone game these are characters people have know and followed for countless hours in a space opera. As a comparison if you look at the flak lucas gets for adding "Noooo" into star wars, imagine if he ended return of the jedi like this, a trippy 2001 rip off followed be "The End..... or is it dun dun duh" it would have been monsterous.

The end is such a jarring shift of tone ive spoken to people about it and its like their in some kind of shell shock, it made me feel psyhically sick. Im not saying i wanted a happy end, i didnt expect one. The tension throughtout the game had a sense of fatality to it i understood it was gunna be sad but it wasnt it was just so utterly disorientating. Mordins and thanes deaths where a triumph they made me sad but not sick. But to return to an example of resolution return of the jedi all characters, all plot lines, resolved themselves in the final moments of that film almost without a single word being said, thats how to end a series amazingly well (sure its happy clappy but nothings perfect).

Modifié par Bob3terd, 17 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[Gexora]

I wouldn't suggest going with indoctrination theory, frankly. You can do better.
Bring back Joker's epic battle against the Harbinger. Cut off everything after Anderson dialogue - that starchild crap has no right to exist in the game as epic as ME3. I agree with someone saying that trying to explain Reapers' motivation and making them "good all along" chepens them. Allow us to just power up the Crucible and see lots of little diversities based on our EMS score and decisions.
Fix the infamous Joker plothole
AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, GIVE US BETTER EPILOGUE. We don;t need stargazer. What we need is narrative in any form you would like about what happened to the universe. both the races and those we cared about. For example EMS high genophage cured - Urdnot Wrex made it back to Tuchanka and brought the krogan to prosperity alongside his queen. EMS high Ugenophage cured Eve dead - Urdnot Wrex made it back to Tuchanka and, despite his promises, started an aggressive colonization.
I still believe in your storytelling genius, guys. After ME3, discounting the endings - how could i not? So do it right

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

I want an explanation of the ending.
I want an ending were Shepard can live and be happy with their romance.
I would like an ending where all mass relays are not destroyed

[Alesea]

Well. I'm Garrus's fan and i really love romantic line with him. But! Where's NC-17 scene with him??? Ash, Liara, Kaiden have it. And Garrus... no. Why??? All humans are racists, hah? Or what?

And.... ok, i'm not going to talk about endings. But, i'm really want good ending with Shep, Garrus and krogan baby

[thordreen]

I think for the most part Mass Effect 3 works best in player controlled action and narrative moments of the game. Once control is taken away the player at the end is when you lose most of us. The ending(s) feel rushed and less refined then the rest of the game. I don't have a particular problem themes presented in the endings or that shepard doesn't get to live in the brave new world, but I would like to see it match the rest of the game experience better.

My biggest complaint about the ending is Normandy running from the fight. I just don't ever seeing Joker and Normandy abandoning Shepard like that. Jessica tweeted she believes it related to retreat order given by Major Coats after Shepard recovers from the beam blackout, but my opinion here is he telling the ground forces to retreat. To me it appears the dev team was trying to give players a little more hopeful ending showing that your team survived, but it comes off as bizarre behavior and random. I would just scrap all of the animation and crash landing crew scene and end with the mass relay video. I would add back the full Anderson/Shepard conversation after dealing with TIM, I think it helps people deal with their hopes and dreams for Shepard far better than the crew crash landing scene.

As far as closure I would like to see DLC for each major crew member at a cross roads for that character at some point in the future. You would play as that squad mate vs as Shepard, as he/she will have died in 90% of the playthroughs. Maybe have the geth/migrant fleet arrive back on Rannoch after years of ftl travel with Tali'Zorah at center of some adventure there.

If the team is unwilling to present events after the game's ending as I believe Casey Hudson has mentioned in interviews, perhaps we could have the crew DLC set at some point in the past. This could be started by Shepard asking about the event on the Normandy. Maybe show Garrus's time as Archangel or Liara dealing with Shepard's death after the collector attack(the comics sort of cover this ground, but still.). Maybe have the event be related to why they are willing to follow Shepard to hell and back.

Finally I do agree with some of the other post that mention it would be nice to see your war asset used more prominently on the earth assault section of the game, but generally I feel that ship as sailed. Having Aria T'Loak & the Bloodpack sweep in and save you from a massive wave of husks would have been a nice touch. Little help events along the way would made it seem like Shepard wasn't in this alone and all the help he/she has given was paid back. This seems like it beyond the scope of patch though, so I won't hold my breath.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Also even if the indoctrination theory wasn't your original plan just go with it it's brilliant

[Aedan276]

 I don't want to micromanage the exact execution of the scenes.

A chance for Shepard to live is a "must" with me because automatically killing him reduces replay value (I have multiple Wardens for the possible endings). An option for destroying Reapers with the fleet is also a must, although I'm not against other options, because the plot of ME3 was about building the strongest military alliance in galactic history. It built up to that final showdown and I was heavily let down by the twist that overtook the plot at the last second.

 If Catalyst is there I want to be able to disagree with his logic and motives. Kind of goes the same direction as the other two. 

Modifié par Aedan276, 17 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Madmoe77]

Let's see if I can follow the instructions.

The game was great right up until you meet up with Anderson the first time. The way the writers resolved all of the characters from the previous games was fantastic and should be commended. The resolutions between the warring cultures such as the krogan/turian/salarian and the geth/quarian were handled very well. I gathered assets successfully the way the game stands but felt a disconnect between how the multi-player effected it.

As to the situation leading to the end; many have already mentioned how disjointed it felt. From the final stand where you have to clear the reaper for the last run, I got lost. The area was teaming with opposition and suddenly by magic I cleared the area by launching missiles. Just after this I get to speak with all of my squad mates and phone home so to speak. This was a great set of events and felt very in tune with a Bioware title. From the run to the Harbinger encounter it really begins to spin out of control.

As a fine artist, I have had a piece miss my audience and I know how awkward that can be. This set of scenes could have ended in so many ways. When Shep arrives in the Citadel, nothing feels real. The environment of the Citadel is so different from what it was that you do not know you are actually on the Citadel. I understand this was to suggest it had transformed and this was an area previously different or unexplored. But wandering through it I felt it had to be a dream or some cognitive break.

The Admiral behaved differently and even the Illusive Man seemed like some new incarnation. All of this suggested a surreal transition but none of it had connectivity or setup. It just happened. Unlike the war stories previously mentioned who had setup, execution and conclusions. After these events run their course, we find ourselves on yet another strange transition into yet another unexplored place not setup by story or even prompted by my interaction.

The endings then try to distinguish themselves vaguely from a very short and incoherent new antagonist into decisions you never had any thoughts on making. This might sound brilliant but it's like being asked by your child about jellybeans rightly followed by how mom and dad make babies. I was so taken back by this sudden change in game that I almost needed to check my hard drive.

If this wasn't jarring enough, we had several scenes following of a fleeing Nomandy, a crash sequence onto fantasy island and a shallow breath from someone bearing an N7 dog tag. Which you know has lead to indoctrination theory, bad writer accusations and mass donations to charity. I wish we could believe this repairable; and I don't speak for everyone but I dare say I don't have any trust in a fix coming. I can't tell you how to "fix" your product. I don't make games. But it would be utterly unfortunate for such a talented group, proven so capable in the great portion of developing this title to not in some way try and finish the race.

I know the pace was a hard one to keep and this path ran with very little breaks but in a marathon the team relies so heavy on the anchor pulling up the end. I can say that I have yet to see a more talented game company and maybe I am naive as an older gamer playing the new kids games, but I think something can be done. I ask you then; if you can; why shouldn't you?

[Enraged Sympathizer]

First and for most! I apologize for the wall of text, this is the fifth time I've typed this out (on my iPod, sorry I don't have access to a computer at the moment) but browser issues keep clearing my neatly organized "2 cents" so yea, I hope this was worth it, this topic has really given me a lot of hope. Anyways onto my thoughts: 


Well, it looks like most of (if not all) my issues and suggestions are being taken care of thanks to this AWESOME community who wrote them out way better then I could have ever done. There's just one thing (that sticks out sort of) that annoyed me the most about the endings. Being left in the dark about the statuses of all the characters I know (or came to know) and love (or came to love). Now that's nothing special but one thing I absolutely LOVED about the end of ME2 was going around the Normany and collecting all of your crew member's well who survived) opinions on your final decision (collector base destroyed or not).


Yes, I know, this is HIGHLY unlikely and will mostly likely never happen (continuing on after the ending). Because its sort of obvious by those endings that they intended you not go on and I don't know how much work it'd be to change that, but I think it's safe to assume it would be A LOT. Despite getting the ending changed, but there's always hope I guess. Don't worry, I'm not gonna argue the whole Fallout 3 thing because it simply doesn't apply here. That was for DLC means, but in ME3's case I feel story DLC would most be appropriate before the end mission. 


The reason I would want to see this (if possibly) would be to see what all the important characters' POVs are. "How long will it take to rebuild, damage report, what they have left and what they lost" stuff like that. I absolutely HATED being left in the dark about quality characters' places in the after math. If anything I simply want their opinion, say as an extra, if you survive if the ending IS changed. Shepard and your LI's future direction (unique to whom ever it was of course) priorities, kids, etc. I like the feeling that I'm fighting for a future not just for me but for the characters that I came to care about on a personal level (all I know by the current endings are they lived, not enough). I didn't know that grandpa and grandson, I got the point, Shepard became a legend and allowed them to be, but it just felt impersonal. As well as some other stuff, that drink with Chakwas, that bar James mentioned, stuff like that. Perhaps after a cinematic pull it back after the credits to your current situation before being about to important a ME3 save and going back through, an ending change would greatly improve replay ability.  


On a side note: Look, I hated the God Child, just take him out, PLEASE. I feel he lacks in his reasoning, make it Harbinger. I can only hypothesize that the kid gave Shepard a reminder of who and what he was fighting for so after all his injuries he could still get up. But if you really want to give him more meaning, put his picture on one of those boards on the Citadel or something. Tell me who this kid was, give him a name, make him real as any other character in this amazing universe instead of this lost soul that haunts you in your dreams. Meet his parents who would be worried sick about him, something!? Just a minor suggestion, I don't know. 


Anyways, much thanks for listening and being involved, BioWare! I understand if this is too ambitious but I really do think it'd be a nice treat for someone to really work towards it. 

[Phattee Buttz]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Do NOT go with Indoc theory. You guys are the masters of storytelling. Come up with something none of us saw coming. The lame "Indoc Theory" is just as crappy and full of holes as the "real" ending.

Plus, the picture of Tali was a HUGE opportunity to make the reveal of the century, and you flushed it down the crapper with a stupid photoshopped stock image.

I disagree. Whether intentional or not, Indoctrination theory WORKS. Not only that, but it provides a way out of an otherwise inescapable writing situation.

[Novouto]

The indoctrination theory would be a great place for you to start.

[Johcande XX]

Smaller changes: 
- An updating quest journal, that could show quest progress.
- Increase some war asset points, someway that you can get the good ending w/o MP, for those w/o good internet.
- A few added quests, also I'd like another hub-location; but I imagine that will be taken care of with Omega DLC.

Important changes:
- ENDINGS!!
There should be alternate endings, since one of the major complaints is that they are all identical.  In my opinion,  I would like to see a good ending, if you really strive for it and make all the right choices.  Maybe it can play out with the LI in an epilogue of some sort.  Depending on your LI, it shows a scene of society rebuilding; Rannoch, Thessia, Palaven, Earth.  Then a short scene between the two, . . . something like that.

That doesn't mean that you can't have the bittersweet, or martyr, ending; but if you want it to have the emotional impact that merits killing off your protagonist, then you really have to have exposition to SHOW how their death effects those that he/she died for.  And destroying the mass relays, without showing how their absence changes the galaxy, is really just lazy; more than that, having incredibly important events happen with zero expostition is just bad writing.

- Also, the more I look at the way that Tali's reveal was handled, the more I feel that Bioware just . . . gave up.  I mean, there are a plethora of professional artists who would have drawn up designs and submitted them to you for free; heck there are pages and pages of fan-made designs.  From the interviews that I've read, I really thought that if the reveal would happen; time would have been spent, sketches would have been made.  But a mediocre 20 minute photo-shop.  That's just shameful.

[EllOneillE]

There are a lot of suggestions here so I just want to throw my support behind Tsumiraki's idea of using The Crucible to destroy Reaper Shields.

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...

*copypasta*

1.  Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes. 

2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.

3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:

Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.

Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.

Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.

Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.

High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers. 

High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.


Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion. 

In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.

To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.

The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.

The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
                                Synthesis              Take down Sheilds
                                                __________/ 
                                               (                       )
                 Destroy    --------(                          ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
                                               (                       )
                                                -----------------
                                               /                      
                                      Control                Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.

EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.

5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.

EXAMPLE: 

Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).

Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”

Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.

Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity

Ect.

6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM. 



Anyway, that's my whole view on it. 


THIS WAY:  
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place. 

How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone. 

[SkaldFish]

Thank you for opening this dialogue. Folks have said a lot, and there's a lot more to be said, but for now, this:

The editing apparently applied to the ending -- under the notion of deliberate ambiguity for the sake of fueling player speculation -- resulted in a fragmented, often nonsensical narrative exactly when it was most important that the story be crystal clear. Worse, it destroyed the pace of the plot resolution, making the player feel "rushed out the door." The simplistic and dictatorial nature of the "pick door #1, #2, or #3" device and the sudden passivity of Shepard in the face of three unacceptable "solutions" exacerbates this problem.

Whenever extreme editing like this is done, it should always be checked by someone who understands good storytelling and who never saw the prior version. Those familiar with it will fill in the story gaps subsonsciously. The danger is that crucial transitional cues are removed by the edits, leaving the final version incoherent to some degree.

This is hardly the only issue with the ending, but I haven't seen it mentioned here, so I wanted to address it. I guess the best way to restate it more succinctly is this: 

Regardless of what is or isn't done to make changes to the ending, apply to the ending the same final polish for continuity, pace, dialogue quality, blocking, transitions, and consistency that the team did such an excellent job of applying throughout the game up to that point. This includes logic checks to ensure that the question "Does what this character said actually even make any sense?" gets asked.

Regardless of what might be deliberately obscured to support future DLC, it's just unacceptable from a quality-of-narrative perspective to have absurdities end up in the released version like assumed-dead squadmates suddenly strolling out of the Normandy.

And if there's still a huge desire to stimulate player speculation (though it appears we hardly need any help there), there's plenty of room for that along dozens of unfinished subordinate story arcs. The primary arc should always be fully fleshed out; otherwise willing suspension of disbelief can't be sustained.