Make it more like this.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
Débuté par
RaenImrahl
, mars 17 2012 03:00
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#1127
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:48
Shssay-san
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Thanks to Jessica Merizan for asking us for feedback about ME3's ending. I'm sure you'll have read various versions of these points in other peoples' posts, but here are my thoughts anyway:
One of my biggest problems was the way the endings were presented. I was expecting the ending of ME3 to be similar in structure to the suicide mission from ME2. Based on how many assets you'd collected, your choices in alliances, and the choices that spanned the other two games Shepard and company would either defeat the Reapers and save the galaxy, or the Reapers would defeat her alliance and destroy everthing. And a few variations in between those two extremes. In the suicide mission from ME2, that's what we got. Depending on what the player did, Shep could either have a total victory over the Collectors or she, along with everyone else in her squad, can wind up dead. So when I had three main variations of the ending for ME3, and they were all sour in tone, it was a pretty unwelcome surprise.
Another part of the presentation that I didn't like was the fact that in the ending of ME3, it felt like the action was taken away from us. Whenever I'm playing a game and I'm in the midst of a final battle, I've never liked it when all the action stops and I'm suddenly having a very civilized conversation with the entity that's been trying to destroy me for the last three games. And then that entity offers me three choices on how to end the conflict and leaves the decision to me, apparantly abandoning its previous motives in favor of my judgement. I've seen endings like this before in games and I've never liked them. It's never felt like good storytelling within the medium and the logic of it is always so absurd that it jars me out of the fantasy the game has managed to cultivate up until that point. I was really surprised to see this type of ending in ME3, because the team at BioWare have already proven that they can do so much better. I found myself honestly wondering if the same people who wrote the rest of the game's content were involved with the last few minutes of ME3.
At the end of ME2 I felt like I was a part of the action right up until the last second. Harbinger didn't offer Shepard three choices that let her decide how to thwart his Collector minions. Shep set out to defeat them, and based on how much I did in the game, she either succeeded or failed. And no matter what my degree of success, I got to see the consequences of my decisions play out in real-time. For example, if I bungled or ignored one of my squadmate's loyalty missions, I had to watch them die during the suicide mission. That's much more effective than watching a short film with various colors to reflect what ending I got.
With the setting of an epic war to retake Earth, it seems like a missed opportunity that instead of playing out a stirring battle with Harbinger and its Reaper pals with varying levels of success depending on galactic readiness or war assets accumulated, I'm having a quiet conversation with an enigmatic child who hasn't had anything to do with the Mass Effect universe up until now. The Reapers have been the main antagonists throughout this trilogy. I realize that the child is the entity guiding the Reapers and including him was an attempt to explain their motivations before the end, but facing this child in the last moments of the games didn't have the same visceral impact that a final showdown with the Reapers would have had. It just didn't seem to fit.
Beyond that, all the endings leave the player with far more questions than answers. The mass relays are destroyed, so no matter what I do the armies I brought with me to retake Earth are stranded in our Solar System. Do they ever get back? What happens to the rest of the galaxy? We don't know the fates of Shep's crew members and the best possible fate we can hope for the Commander herself is that she might be alive at the end of one of them. I'm left with a complete sense of defeat. Why did I play through so many sidequests gathering assets if they can't help me defeat the Reapers in a thrilling display of military prowess? Why did I help the Quarians retake their home world if they'll never see it? Etc, etc, etc, I have a list of questions as long as my arm. All of that just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
The Game Front article "Mass Effect 3 Ending-Hatred: 5 Reasons The Fans Are Right" by Ross Lincoln consicely sums up a lot of the reasons people were disappointed in the ending of ME3. If you're looking for feedback, it's worth a look.
All that being said, I loved 99% of ME3. The ending just didn't measure up to the rest of the game's content. The fans would greatly appreciate it if BioWare were willing to work with us and address our concerns about the ending with an expansion or DLC.
One of my biggest problems was the way the endings were presented. I was expecting the ending of ME3 to be similar in structure to the suicide mission from ME2. Based on how many assets you'd collected, your choices in alliances, and the choices that spanned the other two games Shepard and company would either defeat the Reapers and save the galaxy, or the Reapers would defeat her alliance and destroy everthing. And a few variations in between those two extremes. In the suicide mission from ME2, that's what we got. Depending on what the player did, Shep could either have a total victory over the Collectors or she, along with everyone else in her squad, can wind up dead. So when I had three main variations of the ending for ME3, and they were all sour in tone, it was a pretty unwelcome surprise.
Another part of the presentation that I didn't like was the fact that in the ending of ME3, it felt like the action was taken away from us. Whenever I'm playing a game and I'm in the midst of a final battle, I've never liked it when all the action stops and I'm suddenly having a very civilized conversation with the entity that's been trying to destroy me for the last three games. And then that entity offers me three choices on how to end the conflict and leaves the decision to me, apparantly abandoning its previous motives in favor of my judgement. I've seen endings like this before in games and I've never liked them. It's never felt like good storytelling within the medium and the logic of it is always so absurd that it jars me out of the fantasy the game has managed to cultivate up until that point. I was really surprised to see this type of ending in ME3, because the team at BioWare have already proven that they can do so much better. I found myself honestly wondering if the same people who wrote the rest of the game's content were involved with the last few minutes of ME3.
At the end of ME2 I felt like I was a part of the action right up until the last second. Harbinger didn't offer Shepard three choices that let her decide how to thwart his Collector minions. Shep set out to defeat them, and based on how much I did in the game, she either succeeded or failed. And no matter what my degree of success, I got to see the consequences of my decisions play out in real-time. For example, if I bungled or ignored one of my squadmate's loyalty missions, I had to watch them die during the suicide mission. That's much more effective than watching a short film with various colors to reflect what ending I got.
With the setting of an epic war to retake Earth, it seems like a missed opportunity that instead of playing out a stirring battle with Harbinger and its Reaper pals with varying levels of success depending on galactic readiness or war assets accumulated, I'm having a quiet conversation with an enigmatic child who hasn't had anything to do with the Mass Effect universe up until now. The Reapers have been the main antagonists throughout this trilogy. I realize that the child is the entity guiding the Reapers and including him was an attempt to explain their motivations before the end, but facing this child in the last moments of the games didn't have the same visceral impact that a final showdown with the Reapers would have had. It just didn't seem to fit.
Beyond that, all the endings leave the player with far more questions than answers. The mass relays are destroyed, so no matter what I do the armies I brought with me to retake Earth are stranded in our Solar System. Do they ever get back? What happens to the rest of the galaxy? We don't know the fates of Shep's crew members and the best possible fate we can hope for the Commander herself is that she might be alive at the end of one of them. I'm left with a complete sense of defeat. Why did I play through so many sidequests gathering assets if they can't help me defeat the Reapers in a thrilling display of military prowess? Why did I help the Quarians retake their home world if they'll never see it? Etc, etc, etc, I have a list of questions as long as my arm. All of that just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
The Game Front article "Mass Effect 3 Ending-Hatred: 5 Reasons The Fans Are Right" by Ross Lincoln consicely sums up a lot of the reasons people were disappointed in the ending of ME3. If you're looking for feedback, it's worth a look.
All that being said, I loved 99% of ME3. The ending just didn't measure up to the rest of the game's content. The fans would greatly appreciate it if BioWare were willing to work with us and address our concerns about the ending with an expansion or DLC.
Modifié par Shssay-san, 18 mars 2012 - 07:11 .
#1128
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:48
DonJuan2000
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- Members
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MASS EFFECT SHOULD RESOLVE IN A OPEN ENDED UNIVERSE LIKE STARWARS
I'm writing my plots here, but I'll copy some also there. The title already speak for itself anyway.
https://www.facebook...379886602030228
1) Dont kill universe narrative background, you have a huge potential for sequels, just like Starwars with Reapers and indocrinated peoples like Sith sect. Maybe indocrination/dream theory is not totally bad. Just resolve the battle on earth with a huge confrontation with Harbinger and resolve Shepard mission. Take inspiraions from starwars and KOTOR 1 and 2. Reapers concept should survive in any case, for example with a retreat of some of them to be able to keep alive the narrative background. From there it should start a galactic confrontations and full scale war like in Starwars. Shepard story could also end here if you mind and become e legend founded a some kind of military order to fight against Reapers. If you like you can keep it alive for a couple of missions or for some serial episodes like Captain Kirk. Or just going in future with story as said its also very good: A future Shepard Accademy, Shepard memorial, Shepard order or special forces against reapers, such things, should be great !
2) As said we expect a ground battle like ME2, assign tasks to squad members and see involvement of military assets we brought it from all the game around the galaxy.
3) A huge space battle in which we have to fight too, assign tasks also to various space ships, a good talk with Admiral to give it some suggestions how to use some assets and their consequences should be great, maybe look some military strategy to take inspirations, but hey you are going to develop C&C2 so you should be able to find valid ideas.
4) Cancel and wipe out completely in some way, ( maybe a dream ? ), the Space Harry Potter child and space magic nosense.....
5) Reapers are evolved IA alive, they use organics just like we use machines and foods. Human reaper was done because we are strongest reace opposed to them, so they wanna military evolve. Just geths can trascend, but not organics, not in such way at least. Geth parallel process in one platform are like human thouhgs, but need Reaper code to form a unique mind, this have sense and I like it lot how Legion become alive and/or let others too become so. But is not going to happen to organics in any way, too space magic... but dont totally trash the concept of Light Beings opposed to Reapers like we can read in some mith in ME1 planet descriptions.
6) Crucible is a huge Mass Acellerator Energy Weapond not a magical firework; Javik talk about it. We have also traces of it in the past, for example hit the planet Klendagon and damaged a reapers which we go too in ME2. But as Javik said it need it a Obscure Energy reactor to be more powerful.
7) Obscure energy, dark side and so on, maybe you can think about it in our Reapers/Sith situations.
8) Obscure energy hit some stars. Reapers lives also close the black holes. For some reasons they like to live around black holes so develop this concept. If you mind I'll made more research and email you
) There's lots to say around so called Exotic Physic.
9) As said the Shepard real Earth liberation ( you can also do that in a ME4 if you like ), will end this Shapard mission, but will resolve in a Open-Ended Universe and galactic warfare in Starwars style.
10) If you mind to approach the god or maybe more appropriate to me, a fallen god IA concept do with caution, take inspirations from 2001 Space Odissey maybe and some Star Trek plots and so on.
11) I'll write more when i Think more, keep up the good work and thanks for listening. You did a great job before, just not finished thats all. But we support you if you listen us. In general take inspirations from mature SCI-FI contents and narrative.
I'm writing my plots here, but I'll copy some also there. The title already speak for itself anyway.
https://www.facebook...379886602030228
1) Dont kill universe narrative background, you have a huge potential for sequels, just like Starwars with Reapers and indocrinated peoples like Sith sect. Maybe indocrination/dream theory is not totally bad. Just resolve the battle on earth with a huge confrontation with Harbinger and resolve Shepard mission. Take inspiraions from starwars and KOTOR 1 and 2. Reapers concept should survive in any case, for example with a retreat of some of them to be able to keep alive the narrative background. From there it should start a galactic confrontations and full scale war like in Starwars. Shepard story could also end here if you mind and become e legend founded a some kind of military order to fight against Reapers. If you like you can keep it alive for a couple of missions or for some serial episodes like Captain Kirk. Or just going in future with story as said its also very good: A future Shepard Accademy, Shepard memorial, Shepard order or special forces against reapers, such things, should be great !
2) As said we expect a ground battle like ME2, assign tasks to squad members and see involvement of military assets we brought it from all the game around the galaxy.
3) A huge space battle in which we have to fight too, assign tasks also to various space ships, a good talk with Admiral to give it some suggestions how to use some assets and their consequences should be great, maybe look some military strategy to take inspirations, but hey you are going to develop C&C2 so you should be able to find valid ideas.
4) Cancel and wipe out completely in some way, ( maybe a dream ? ), the Space Harry Potter child and space magic nosense.....
5) Reapers are evolved IA alive, they use organics just like we use machines and foods. Human reaper was done because we are strongest reace opposed to them, so they wanna military evolve. Just geths can trascend, but not organics, not in such way at least. Geth parallel process in one platform are like human thouhgs, but need Reaper code to form a unique mind, this have sense and I like it lot how Legion become alive and/or let others too become so. But is not going to happen to organics in any way, too space magic... but dont totally trash the concept of Light Beings opposed to Reapers like we can read in some mith in ME1 planet descriptions.
6) Crucible is a huge Mass Acellerator Energy Weapond not a magical firework; Javik talk about it. We have also traces of it in the past, for example hit the planet Klendagon and damaged a reapers which we go too in ME2. But as Javik said it need it a Obscure Energy reactor to be more powerful.
7) Obscure energy, dark side and so on, maybe you can think about it in our Reapers/Sith situations.
8) Obscure energy hit some stars. Reapers lives also close the black holes. For some reasons they like to live around black holes so develop this concept. If you mind I'll made more research and email you
) There's lots to say around so called Exotic Physic.9) As said the Shepard real Earth liberation ( you can also do that in a ME4 if you like ), will end this Shapard mission, but will resolve in a Open-Ended Universe and galactic warfare in Starwars style.
10) If you mind to approach the god or maybe more appropriate to me, a fallen god IA concept do with caution, take inspirations from 2001 Space Odissey maybe and some Star Trek plots and so on.
11) I'll write more when i Think more, keep up the good work and thanks for listening. You did a great job before, just not finished thats all. But we support you if you listen us. In general take inspirations from mature SCI-FI contents and narrative.
Modifié par DonJuan2000, 17 mars 2012 - 10:02 .
#1129
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:48
LadyMalstroem
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- Members
- 72 messages
I second all the people who have linked to the Gamefront article on the endings - it really does an excellent job explaining nearly everything that upsets me and that I want changed.
But I want to say a few things in my own words as well.
For me, my only hope is the indoctrination theory, that many other people have outlined a lot better than I could. Believing in it is the only thing that makes replaying the games bearable for me at this point. The big thing for me here is that I need my choices and accomplishments to matter. If the geth are destroyed in the end and the quarians are stranded in the Sol system, why did I bother retaking their homeworld? How could I listen to Tali talk passionately about where she wants to build her house, if I know that's never going to happen no matter what I do? How could I stand watching the genophage cure fall over Tuchanka, watching Mordin die in order to ensure it's spread correctly, when I know Wrex is never going to see his children? When most Krogan will never even see Tuchanka again? How could I watch my Shepard and her LI promise that they'll fight to see each other again when that's clearly not an option? When I think about how many of the alien species are probably going to die of starvation far away from their home because I convinced them to come to Earth to help humanity, it makes me a little sick. When I think about Garrus and Tali being stuck on a planet that probably doesn't have food they can eat, it makes me even more sick. And the fact that my crewmates, my friends, the ones who would never leave my side, flees the battle when we're just about to win, that truly upsets me.
The indoctrination theory gives me hope. And, maybe more importantly, it's the only way I can make sense of the ending. It's the only way my questions can be answered. Why is the Catalyst convinced that synthetics will always rebel against organics, even though I got the geth and the quarians to work alongside one another, even though EDI and Joker fell in love? Why is the Normandy running away, with my ground team on it? Why isn't there an option to refuse the Catalyst's three choices, the option that would clearly be a lot more in character for my Shepard? Why does she go along with his bull**** whitout asking any questions? If the Mass Relays are destroyed, why isn't the whole system destroyed as well, like in Arrival? "Space magic" isn't a good enough answer to that one. Why does my Shepard wake up among rubble back on Earth is she was in space, on the Citadel?
I'm upset over the fact that this is the only way the game ends. You're given three choices, but they're all nearly identical. They're also the same regardless of whether you played Paragon or Renegade. Reapers go away, mass relays are blown up, Normandy crashes. I can live with those endings (you know, if they were better executed), if we were given other options as well, options that reflected how we play the game, which choices we make. I like the idea of the War Asset system and the effects it can have on how well or how badly the final battle goes down, but I'd like to see more consequences based on how I play the game, not just how much of the game I played. If I work my ass off gathering all the War Assets I can, and I help every little NPC I come across, and I'm nice and diplomatic to everyone, I want to be properly rewarded for it. I'll be honest, I was hoping for at least a chance to get a happy ending, not because I want everything to be sunshine and butterflies but because I felt like my Shepard deserved it, after all the crap she's been through. I was hoping for a bit of hope after all the destruction and chaos. The game being as bleak as it is, ending things on a high note would have been a good ending, showing us that we were victorious despite the odds. Hell, I would have been perfectly fine with Shepard dying if it meant saving the galaxy properly, knowing that my friends made it out okay, knowing that the things Shepard did in her life time mattered in the end. And for god's sake, let us have at least one option where the mass relays aren't destroyed. Without them, the whole galactic civilization as we've come to know it falls apart, and it leaves very little room for anything good to happen after the Reapers are gone. All I see is more destruction, more death, more loss. Shepard's death doesn't feel like sacrifice at this point, it feels like surrender. She died because she believes what the Catalyst says without question, and that's not what my Shepard would have done. What it does not feel like, is victory.
If the endings must be as they are, I would like to see an extended epilogue, showing what happens to all the races and their planets, how they deal with the problems they have to face. I would like to know what happens to my crewmates, whether Shepard will ever see them again, whether they survive, where they are, how they deal with being stranded, and for Christ's sake, why Joker fled. This is the last game, the end of Shepard's story. I shouldn't have to make these things up on my own. That really should be Bioware's job. But still, what I'm hoping for most of all, is for the indoctrination theory to be correct. In which case we need to see what happens after Shepard snaps out of it. If the theory is correct, it completely transforms the ending from being a frustrating, non-sensical and ruining mess to being perhaps one of the best endings in a video game out there. There are so many hints supporting it. It would be absolutely brilliant. But we need to see the aftermath no matter what. We would need to see how it all actually turns out.
Ending this on a positive note, Mass Effect 3 is one of the best games I've ever played. Everything about it except the ending is everything I've ever wanted in a Mass Effect game. That's why I want the ending to be changed so badly, so I can look back at this franchise with the love I have for it, rather than the frustration I feel right now. As sad as it sounds, Mass Effect has been there for me at a few rough periods of my life, I don't want to see it ruined.
Thank you for listening. I realize that this is a lot more rambly than the other excellent point-for-point posts in this thread, but it's more or less what I'd like to say, given this chance.
But I want to say a few things in my own words as well.
For me, my only hope is the indoctrination theory, that many other people have outlined a lot better than I could. Believing in it is the only thing that makes replaying the games bearable for me at this point. The big thing for me here is that I need my choices and accomplishments to matter. If the geth are destroyed in the end and the quarians are stranded in the Sol system, why did I bother retaking their homeworld? How could I listen to Tali talk passionately about where she wants to build her house, if I know that's never going to happen no matter what I do? How could I stand watching the genophage cure fall over Tuchanka, watching Mordin die in order to ensure it's spread correctly, when I know Wrex is never going to see his children? When most Krogan will never even see Tuchanka again? How could I watch my Shepard and her LI promise that they'll fight to see each other again when that's clearly not an option? When I think about how many of the alien species are probably going to die of starvation far away from their home because I convinced them to come to Earth to help humanity, it makes me a little sick. When I think about Garrus and Tali being stuck on a planet that probably doesn't have food they can eat, it makes me even more sick. And the fact that my crewmates, my friends, the ones who would never leave my side, flees the battle when we're just about to win, that truly upsets me.
The indoctrination theory gives me hope. And, maybe more importantly, it's the only way I can make sense of the ending. It's the only way my questions can be answered. Why is the Catalyst convinced that synthetics will always rebel against organics, even though I got the geth and the quarians to work alongside one another, even though EDI and Joker fell in love? Why is the Normandy running away, with my ground team on it? Why isn't there an option to refuse the Catalyst's three choices, the option that would clearly be a lot more in character for my Shepard? Why does she go along with his bull**** whitout asking any questions? If the Mass Relays are destroyed, why isn't the whole system destroyed as well, like in Arrival? "Space magic" isn't a good enough answer to that one. Why does my Shepard wake up among rubble back on Earth is she was in space, on the Citadel?
I'm upset over the fact that this is the only way the game ends. You're given three choices, but they're all nearly identical. They're also the same regardless of whether you played Paragon or Renegade. Reapers go away, mass relays are blown up, Normandy crashes. I can live with those endings (you know, if they were better executed), if we were given other options as well, options that reflected how we play the game, which choices we make. I like the idea of the War Asset system and the effects it can have on how well or how badly the final battle goes down, but I'd like to see more consequences based on how I play the game, not just how much of the game I played. If I work my ass off gathering all the War Assets I can, and I help every little NPC I come across, and I'm nice and diplomatic to everyone, I want to be properly rewarded for it. I'll be honest, I was hoping for at least a chance to get a happy ending, not because I want everything to be sunshine and butterflies but because I felt like my Shepard deserved it, after all the crap she's been through. I was hoping for a bit of hope after all the destruction and chaos. The game being as bleak as it is, ending things on a high note would have been a good ending, showing us that we were victorious despite the odds. Hell, I would have been perfectly fine with Shepard dying if it meant saving the galaxy properly, knowing that my friends made it out okay, knowing that the things Shepard did in her life time mattered in the end. And for god's sake, let us have at least one option where the mass relays aren't destroyed. Without them, the whole galactic civilization as we've come to know it falls apart, and it leaves very little room for anything good to happen after the Reapers are gone. All I see is more destruction, more death, more loss. Shepard's death doesn't feel like sacrifice at this point, it feels like surrender. She died because she believes what the Catalyst says without question, and that's not what my Shepard would have done. What it does not feel like, is victory.
If the endings must be as they are, I would like to see an extended epilogue, showing what happens to all the races and their planets, how they deal with the problems they have to face. I would like to know what happens to my crewmates, whether Shepard will ever see them again, whether they survive, where they are, how they deal with being stranded, and for Christ's sake, why Joker fled. This is the last game, the end of Shepard's story. I shouldn't have to make these things up on my own. That really should be Bioware's job. But still, what I'm hoping for most of all, is for the indoctrination theory to be correct. In which case we need to see what happens after Shepard snaps out of it. If the theory is correct, it completely transforms the ending from being a frustrating, non-sensical and ruining mess to being perhaps one of the best endings in a video game out there. There are so many hints supporting it. It would be absolutely brilliant. But we need to see the aftermath no matter what. We would need to see how it all actually turns out.
Ending this on a positive note, Mass Effect 3 is one of the best games I've ever played. Everything about it except the ending is everything I've ever wanted in a Mass Effect game. That's why I want the ending to be changed so badly, so I can look back at this franchise with the love I have for it, rather than the frustration I feel right now. As sad as it sounds, Mass Effect has been there for me at a few rough periods of my life, I don't want to see it ruined.
Thank you for listening. I realize that this is a lot more rambly than the other excellent point-for-point posts in this thread, but it's more or less what I'd like to say, given this chance.
#1130
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:48
lajeokki
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- Members
- 39 messages
I don't see any need to change anything besides the ending. Firstly we need more choices. Since the whole series has been soooo much about choices it feels stupid to end the series with no oppotunity to really choose anything. I mean I've personally invested like 200 hundred hours for my paragon characters, So I'd like to see a real happy/good ending if I choose so in game. Like ppl starting to rebuild and helping each other, sth to imply Shepard and his/her LI living happily ever after. Oh and not that bs where joker decides to abandon Shepard at the final moment and leave with a few members of the crew, nonononono.
Secondly about that closure (with current ending). What happened to your crew when you got shot by the reaper in the end? How about everyone else on earth, wrex? samara etc? Where's harbinger? Who the heck is that annoying kid up in the Citadel? Why do I see him in my dreams? Why can't I tell him to gtfo instead of choosing red,blue or green? What are the reapers rly?
Secondly about that closure (with current ending). What happened to your crew when you got shot by the reaper in the end? How about everyone else on earth, wrex? samara etc? Where's harbinger? Who the heck is that annoying kid up in the Citadel? Why do I see him in my dreams? Why can't I tell him to gtfo instead of choosing red,blue or green? What are the reapers rly?
#1131
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:49
Mhgasa
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- Members
- 155 messages
First of all, Im really wondering if the PR guys at EA are out of touch with the actual fanbase. I go to school at a computer engineering college and everyone ive spoken to about the game are extremely diasppointed by the endings but would never voice their opinion online. So to be called a small minority is just not true and a bit insulting.
The endings felt devoid of consequence, as we didnt get any sort of epilogue where we got to see the consequences of our choice. I would have loved to have heard hackett and everybody else celebrate at the destruction of the reaper and reaction to shepards choice.
The endings had no closure. Yea, i cured the genophage and brokered a peace between quarians and geth but to what end? a bunch of war assets really doesnt cut it for me. Would have absolutely loved to see a quick flyby of the galaxy seeing the consequences of those choices, good or bad. Seeing people celebrate and rebuild, or even talking about shepard and the army at earth.
Then endings made little sense. This maybe personal taste, but if im utterly confused by whats going on then its probably not explained very well. Teammates beaming around between the earth and the normandy, the whole shepard/godchild talk, the normandy suddenly flying off, the very odd choices i have in the end.
I liked the idea of indoctrination, and it would really have been a brilliant way of throwing the player of balance at the end. The problem is there was no resolution to that theory and the game ends with player confusion and dismay
The endings all looked the same. I think we have all seen the youtube videos of the supposed many different endings looking exactly the same. Would love fewer but vastly more distinct endings, where its not just copy/paste one cinematic and changeing a few colors
The ending didnt provide a proper sendoff for the squadmates. We have spent 5 years building up our relationship with these characters and the lack of any epilogue for these characters is just heartbraking. I want to see their reaction to shepards final choice and if shepard lives i want to see them searching for him. I dont for a second believe they would ever abandon him, even if he was dead (Liara anyone). I can feel myself getting upset by this as im writing , and it just seems like they and shepard didnt get the respect they deserve.
I would like to add that ive been a ME fan since day one and i absolutely love the universe, which makes it so hard to see the trilogy end like this. ME3 was a magnificent game with an abysmal ending, which really does deminish the replay value of the game and can completely relate to people having a hard time playing it thru a second time. I really hope you decide to show us fans the gesture of closing shepards storyarc the way he/she deserves.
.
The endings felt devoid of consequence, as we didnt get any sort of epilogue where we got to see the consequences of our choice. I would have loved to have heard hackett and everybody else celebrate at the destruction of the reaper and reaction to shepards choice.
The endings had no closure. Yea, i cured the genophage and brokered a peace between quarians and geth but to what end? a bunch of war assets really doesnt cut it for me. Would have absolutely loved to see a quick flyby of the galaxy seeing the consequences of those choices, good or bad. Seeing people celebrate and rebuild, or even talking about shepard and the army at earth.
Then endings made little sense. This maybe personal taste, but if im utterly confused by whats going on then its probably not explained very well. Teammates beaming around between the earth and the normandy, the whole shepard/godchild talk, the normandy suddenly flying off, the very odd choices i have in the end.
I liked the idea of indoctrination, and it would really have been a brilliant way of throwing the player of balance at the end. The problem is there was no resolution to that theory and the game ends with player confusion and dismay
The endings all looked the same. I think we have all seen the youtube videos of the supposed many different endings looking exactly the same. Would love fewer but vastly more distinct endings, where its not just copy/paste one cinematic and changeing a few colors
The ending didnt provide a proper sendoff for the squadmates. We have spent 5 years building up our relationship with these characters and the lack of any epilogue for these characters is just heartbraking. I want to see their reaction to shepards final choice and if shepard lives i want to see them searching for him. I dont for a second believe they would ever abandon him, even if he was dead (Liara anyone). I can feel myself getting upset by this as im writing , and it just seems like they and shepard didnt get the respect they deserve.
I would like to add that ive been a ME fan since day one and i absolutely love the universe, which makes it so hard to see the trilogy end like this. ME3 was a magnificent game with an abysmal ending, which really does deminish the replay value of the game and can completely relate to people having a hard time playing it thru a second time. I really hope you decide to show us fans the gesture of closing shepards storyarc the way he/she deserves.
.
Modifié par Mhgasa, 17 mars 2012 - 09:55 .
#1132
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:50
CptData
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pomrink wrote...
Indoctrination theory being correct, then showing us what happens afterwards, with the extra bonus that we will never find out the reapers motivations(they need to stay unknowable, otherwise it cheapens them).
Edit: Also, with an epilogue of sorts, no mass relay explosion (unless you fail), potential failure like promised (i.e. reapers win), and maybe possibly a golden ending with shep living, but very hard to get?
Edit: Golden ending with shep living would hopefully be with LI....
I'd be willing to shell out.
This page has a good list of our problems with the ending.
http://social.biowar...5/index/9851623
Pretty much this post says all.
If the indoctrination theory is valid and Shepard never made it into the Crucible/Citadel, then I want to see what's going to happen beyond the "breath scene". Shepard gets picked up by his/her LI / best friend? The fight is over? C/C fired without his/her influence? Reapers gone? Fate of Normandy?
#1133
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:50
Tyrf
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Pretty much from the SECOND The Illusive Man dies, the ending goes downhill.
I detested the sucker punch of the catalyst and the final ending sequence. It felt so hilariously off-kilter, the first thing I tried to do was shoot the catalyst to see if there was an alternative method.
You receive no closure (what happens to the Universe? Earth? The Citadel? Your Crew? Your Love Interest?)
Your choices have no effect on the final ending
The end cut scenes were all identical minus a palette swap.
Example: Killing all synthetic life includes EDI, aand Joker somehow magically crash lands the ship by himself?
How does Joker even crash land a ship and walk away from it unharmed?
Also, somehow squadmates on the final mission still on the Normandy. Why are any squadmates on the Normandy at all?
Semi-related to the ending...
I dislike the way the single player and multiplayer were linked.
I prefer to play one mode or the other. I did not enjoy being forced to play multiplayer to increase galactic readiness right before the conclusion of my game.
I dislike that the multiplayer readiness rating decays. Ironically, this number had little to no effect on the ending of the game, anyway, but it still irritates me.
P.S. 7 hours: 46 PAGES of replies. Honestly, the poor intern whose job it is to read through all this...
Good luck.
I detested the sucker punch of the catalyst and the final ending sequence. It felt so hilariously off-kilter, the first thing I tried to do was shoot the catalyst to see if there was an alternative method.
You receive no closure (what happens to the Universe? Earth? The Citadel? Your Crew? Your Love Interest?)
Your choices have no effect on the final ending
The end cut scenes were all identical minus a palette swap.
Example: Killing all synthetic life includes EDI, aand Joker somehow magically crash lands the ship by himself?
How does Joker even crash land a ship and walk away from it unharmed?
Also, somehow squadmates on the final mission still on the Normandy. Why are any squadmates on the Normandy at all?
Semi-related to the ending...
I dislike the way the single player and multiplayer were linked.
I prefer to play one mode or the other. I did not enjoy being forced to play multiplayer to increase galactic readiness right before the conclusion of my game.
I dislike that the multiplayer readiness rating decays. Ironically, this number had little to no effect on the ending of the game, anyway, but it still irritates me.
P.S. 7 hours: 46 PAGES of replies. Honestly, the poor intern whose job it is to read through all this...
Good luck.
Modifié par Tyrf, 17 mars 2012 - 09:59 .
#1134
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:50
Humakt83
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Show us what happens after Shepard wakes up from the indoctrination attempt, because indoctrination/dream/hallucination is only theory that gives even scent of logic to the ending of Mass Effect 3.
#1135
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:50
Alamandorious
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Hello Jessica Merizan. I'm sure that I'm merely adding my voice to those who already have spoken, and that you've heard this a fair bit, but I will add it nonetheless.
First of all, we as a community and a movement can agree on one thing; that 95% of the game was a brilliant achievement in story telling for this medium. Bioware has been truly innovative in the sheer variety of options that it gives its players, the quality of the dialogue, and the quality of the voice acting. The characters in this franchise -feel- real when you play, and Bioware has succeeded in making a lot of people care.
The downside is that the last part of the game caught us all off guard, and rendered our choices completely moot. The endings would still have been bad because of their 'choose a colour' method of selection, but even if there had been an epilogue showing what happened to the crew (all the main characters), plus the ones that made cameos (Jack, for example), and the love interest...plus showing just how much your alliance forging and asset gathering helped keep the Galactic community as a whole together (or drove them apart, depending) would have gone a long way into stopping this backlash.
I think you would have found the majority people would have said 'Well, Shepard died, sort've expected that...but at least I know what happened afterwards' rather than the mess that's been created now.
To be blunt, after all the promises in interviews that Bioware made, it felt like an old fashioned bait-and-switch. And then to say 'buy our DLC' at the end of all of this really, really didn't help matters.
So, where do we stand now? Well, first of all, if Bioware actually listens to us and creates proper ending DLC, you'll be setting a positive precident for the rest of the industry...a lot of people want to think that this would be a negative precident, but how often do this many fans come together? How often do they generate this much media attention?
Could you imagine how good Bioware would look for listening to its customer base and fan base, which are really very much the same thing, instead of reinforcing the 'customer disservice' which has been getting worse across the board in recent years.
Bioware would suddenly become this beacon against the rest, positive word of mouth would spread from its loyal customers because, guess what, they matter to this company. Conversations would be,"I can't wait for the next Bioware title to come out. They make awesome, complete games and I want to keep supporting them!"
I know that's how I was until the ME3 ending, to be honest...I had no interest in Dragon Age: Origins (because I'm not a fantasy genre gamer, really..I prefer sci fi), but since it was a Bioware title and had good reviews I picked it up, and have been enjoying it.
So, in the end, it makes good business sense to listen to us, and take everything into account.
Make an ending DLC that picks up just after Shepard takes that breath in the 'red' ending, play it off as him/her fighting off indoctrination...and for the other two choices, green and blue? Well...it would be truly bittersweet if his/her love interest had to put him/her down after indoctrination took hold...one would represent total Reaper control...the other would represent partial Reaper control, and Shepard would be aware that he wasn't acting normal.
In short:
Indoctrination attempt is true, and the already established choices have these conseqences:
Red ending: Shepard shakes off indoctrination, stands up and
carries on the fight until the end we want to see with full epilogue
scenes. If you don't have enough EMS, then he/she simply dies a free
being, and the LI (or, if there is no LI or LI was a non-combatent,
Garrus) leads the squad into the final fight.
Blue ending:
Shepard is indoctrinated. LI (or, if the LI is a non-combatant...or
there is no LI, this role will be filled by Garrus) has to put him down
with the rest of the squad in a Saren-style fight. Move onto
appropriate ending epilogue...this would give them the bitter sweet
ending they wanted and provide proper closure for fans.
Green
ending: Similar to the Blue ending, except that Shepard is aware that
he's indoctrinated and, after the Saren-style fight, thanks LI (or
Garrus, depending) for putting him down. Carry on to boss fight as LI
(or Garrus), roll appropriate epilogue.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter...please make them count.
First of all, we as a community and a movement can agree on one thing; that 95% of the game was a brilliant achievement in story telling for this medium. Bioware has been truly innovative in the sheer variety of options that it gives its players, the quality of the dialogue, and the quality of the voice acting. The characters in this franchise -feel- real when you play, and Bioware has succeeded in making a lot of people care.
The downside is that the last part of the game caught us all off guard, and rendered our choices completely moot. The endings would still have been bad because of their 'choose a colour' method of selection, but even if there had been an epilogue showing what happened to the crew (all the main characters), plus the ones that made cameos (Jack, for example), and the love interest...plus showing just how much your alliance forging and asset gathering helped keep the Galactic community as a whole together (or drove them apart, depending) would have gone a long way into stopping this backlash.
I think you would have found the majority people would have said 'Well, Shepard died, sort've expected that...but at least I know what happened afterwards' rather than the mess that's been created now.
To be blunt, after all the promises in interviews that Bioware made, it felt like an old fashioned bait-and-switch. And then to say 'buy our DLC' at the end of all of this really, really didn't help matters.
So, where do we stand now? Well, first of all, if Bioware actually listens to us and creates proper ending DLC, you'll be setting a positive precident for the rest of the industry...a lot of people want to think that this would be a negative precident, but how often do this many fans come together? How often do they generate this much media attention?
Could you imagine how good Bioware would look for listening to its customer base and fan base, which are really very much the same thing, instead of reinforcing the 'customer disservice' which has been getting worse across the board in recent years.
Bioware would suddenly become this beacon against the rest, positive word of mouth would spread from its loyal customers because, guess what, they matter to this company. Conversations would be,"I can't wait for the next Bioware title to come out. They make awesome, complete games and I want to keep supporting them!"
I know that's how I was until the ME3 ending, to be honest...I had no interest in Dragon Age: Origins (because I'm not a fantasy genre gamer, really..I prefer sci fi), but since it was a Bioware title and had good reviews I picked it up, and have been enjoying it.
So, in the end, it makes good business sense to listen to us, and take everything into account.
Make an ending DLC that picks up just after Shepard takes that breath in the 'red' ending, play it off as him/her fighting off indoctrination...and for the other two choices, green and blue? Well...it would be truly bittersweet if his/her love interest had to put him/her down after indoctrination took hold...one would represent total Reaper control...the other would represent partial Reaper control, and Shepard would be aware that he wasn't acting normal.
In short:
Indoctrination attempt is true, and the already established choices have these conseqences:
Red ending: Shepard shakes off indoctrination, stands up and
carries on the fight until the end we want to see with full epilogue
scenes. If you don't have enough EMS, then he/she simply dies a free
being, and the LI (or, if there is no LI or LI was a non-combatent,
Garrus) leads the squad into the final fight.
Blue ending:
Shepard is indoctrinated. LI (or, if the LI is a non-combatant...or
there is no LI, this role will be filled by Garrus) has to put him down
with the rest of the squad in a Saren-style fight. Move onto
appropriate ending epilogue...this would give them the bitter sweet
ending they wanted and provide proper closure for fans.
Green
ending: Similar to the Blue ending, except that Shepard is aware that
he's indoctrinated and, after the Saren-style fight, thanks LI (or
Garrus, depending) for putting him down. Carry on to boss fight as LI
(or Garrus), roll appropriate epilogue.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter...please make them count.
Modifié par Alamandorious, 17 mars 2012 - 10:15 .
#1136
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:51
Almostfaceman
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- 5 463 messages
I've been thinking about this a lot and I've posted on this before, but I think I want to add one thing that, um, I think people are saying but not saying.
In the first two games, Shepard and his team defeat the Reapers. In the last game, the Starchild beats the Reapers. Shepard is simply good at sprinting to a beam. None of our prowess, none of our alliances, none of our squad choices, really make a Visible difference. We don't even get the benefit of the good old blue or red dialogue to talk to the Starchild and reason with it so we can save ourselves and our squad and the mass relays so our fleet can get home. Now, I understand some ethereal War Asset scores color the ending, but that has no real meaning to the player.
First, bring the victory down to a micro level, not a macro "thousands of years down the road" level. You've gotten us attached to the Mass Effect universe through our squad and the races. Key choices throughout the games really do affect squad members and the society's they live in.
Second, show the benefits of the alliance. A War Asset score is not very meaningful. Let us see, for example if we get the Quarians and the Geth together, maybe a vital front saved by the Geth helping the Quarians. On the ground, if we've gotten the Krogan on our side, show them smashing husks with their foreheads. Likewise if we fail bringing certain folks into the fold, we should pay for that at the cost of lives. The squad members we talked to, if they lived from ME2 show them leading or contributing to the fight. Make them more than a number on scorecard.
Third, give Shepard a chance to live. Seriously, we've been playing this guy/chick for three games. Their ability to beat the odds is the "YEAH" feeling a player gets at the end of the game. But of course, if you don't make it easy for them to live, that's cool because we feel then that our choices really mattered and it was hard work to see the fruit of our labor. Tie his/her survival directly to how well we prepared. If we really brought in maximum help, then maybe for example Joker can manage to get to us on the Citadel after we open the arms and bring us aid, maybe even save Anderson. I'll be the first to admit, though, that Anderson's death scene was magnificent.
Fourth, keep it about the Reapers. Do not bring in an entity like the Starchild. We've been talking to Sovereign then Harbinger. We get no payoff. We don't get to beat Harbinger and rub it in its face and do a victory dance. Our fight has been with the Reapers, and it should stay with the Reapers. A Prothean weapon is cool, but you can still rig it to where we can screw it up or not complete it in time and it can stay an aid to the battle, not the "I WiN" button. And that leads into...
Fifth, if you must keep the Crucible/Catalyst, keep it a weapon. Make it the big "frakk you" that organics have been working on through the cycles for millions of years to defeat the Reapers. It would be so symbolic.
Sixth, we've invested in our squad, again, for three games. And you guys just hit the ball right out of the park bringing that squad closer than ever before to perfection. We need to know what happens to the squad. An epilogue or some form of an epilogue I think would be nice, like Baldur's Gate Throne of Bhaal or Dragon Age Origins.
Seventh, like the squad, you guys again hit the ball out of the park immersing us in the races of Mass Effect. It would be nice to see how they fare in the near future - like again the epilogue of Dragon Age Origins. What happens to the Quarians, Geth, Krogan, etc.
Eight, no "Space Magic" please. A green beam that re-writes genetic code for all organic life is a no-no. It is completely out of place in the Mass Effect universe. That is God Like power, seriously. The Reapers are powerful enough, keep the fight about overcoming that and keep it on a level that's consistent with the rest of the series, please.
Ninth, I really don't have a problem with Shepard having a battle on the "mental" level where he/she has to overcome indoctrination. Again, you can bring in previous choice on this one. Show Shep fighting with Harbinger mind-to-mind, then since we were able to bring, oh, the hanar into the alliance maybe they do a suicide charge that momentarily distracts Harbinger and gives him that chance to break control - or maybe a squad member we saved from ME2 does something brilliant to distract Harbinger. Something like that. Just an example. Or maybe a previous conversation with the Consort helps...
I would say follow sorta the pattern of ME2, where we get to prepare and then we get a payoff if we prepared well, and we all die if we didn't.
Truly, you guys did an absolutely wonderful job on the game. I would not care so much to type all this out and ask for your time if I did not think this game deserves a magnificent ending. It does. I think you can do it Bioware. I appreciate you listening.
In the first two games, Shepard and his team defeat the Reapers. In the last game, the Starchild beats the Reapers. Shepard is simply good at sprinting to a beam. None of our prowess, none of our alliances, none of our squad choices, really make a Visible difference. We don't even get the benefit of the good old blue or red dialogue to talk to the Starchild and reason with it so we can save ourselves and our squad and the mass relays so our fleet can get home. Now, I understand some ethereal War Asset scores color the ending, but that has no real meaning to the player.
First, bring the victory down to a micro level, not a macro "thousands of years down the road" level. You've gotten us attached to the Mass Effect universe through our squad and the races. Key choices throughout the games really do affect squad members and the society's they live in.
Second, show the benefits of the alliance. A War Asset score is not very meaningful. Let us see, for example if we get the Quarians and the Geth together, maybe a vital front saved by the Geth helping the Quarians. On the ground, if we've gotten the Krogan on our side, show them smashing husks with their foreheads. Likewise if we fail bringing certain folks into the fold, we should pay for that at the cost of lives. The squad members we talked to, if they lived from ME2 show them leading or contributing to the fight. Make them more than a number on scorecard.
Third, give Shepard a chance to live. Seriously, we've been playing this guy/chick for three games. Their ability to beat the odds is the "YEAH" feeling a player gets at the end of the game. But of course, if you don't make it easy for them to live, that's cool because we feel then that our choices really mattered and it was hard work to see the fruit of our labor. Tie his/her survival directly to how well we prepared. If we really brought in maximum help, then maybe for example Joker can manage to get to us on the Citadel after we open the arms and bring us aid, maybe even save Anderson. I'll be the first to admit, though, that Anderson's death scene was magnificent.
Fourth, keep it about the Reapers. Do not bring in an entity like the Starchild. We've been talking to Sovereign then Harbinger. We get no payoff. We don't get to beat Harbinger and rub it in its face and do a victory dance. Our fight has been with the Reapers, and it should stay with the Reapers. A Prothean weapon is cool, but you can still rig it to where we can screw it up or not complete it in time and it can stay an aid to the battle, not the "I WiN" button. And that leads into...
Fifth, if you must keep the Crucible/Catalyst, keep it a weapon. Make it the big "frakk you" that organics have been working on through the cycles for millions of years to defeat the Reapers. It would be so symbolic.
Sixth, we've invested in our squad, again, for three games. And you guys just hit the ball right out of the park bringing that squad closer than ever before to perfection. We need to know what happens to the squad. An epilogue or some form of an epilogue I think would be nice, like Baldur's Gate Throne of Bhaal or Dragon Age Origins.
Seventh, like the squad, you guys again hit the ball out of the park immersing us in the races of Mass Effect. It would be nice to see how they fare in the near future - like again the epilogue of Dragon Age Origins. What happens to the Quarians, Geth, Krogan, etc.
Eight, no "Space Magic" please. A green beam that re-writes genetic code for all organic life is a no-no. It is completely out of place in the Mass Effect universe. That is God Like power, seriously. The Reapers are powerful enough, keep the fight about overcoming that and keep it on a level that's consistent with the rest of the series, please.
Ninth, I really don't have a problem with Shepard having a battle on the "mental" level where he/she has to overcome indoctrination. Again, you can bring in previous choice on this one. Show Shep fighting with Harbinger mind-to-mind, then since we were able to bring, oh, the hanar into the alliance maybe they do a suicide charge that momentarily distracts Harbinger and gives him that chance to break control - or maybe a squad member we saved from ME2 does something brilliant to distract Harbinger. Something like that. Just an example. Or maybe a previous conversation with the Consort helps...
I would say follow sorta the pattern of ME2, where we get to prepare and then we get a payoff if we prepared well, and we all die if we didn't.
Truly, you guys did an absolutely wonderful job on the game. I would not care so much to type all this out and ask for your time if I did not think this game deserves a magnificent ending. It does. I think you can do it Bioware. I appreciate you listening.
#1137
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:53
MadMatt910
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- Members
- 456 messages
Also gonna put this here
http://social.biowar...4944/9#10094596
a list of current problems, as agreed by most people who contributed to the thread
either changing the ending from after going up in the lift on the citadel, or using indoctrination theory and making a new ending that addresses these points would probably make the most people happy.
http://social.biowar...4944/9#10094596
a list of current problems, as agreed by most people who contributed to the thread
either changing the ending from after going up in the lift on the citadel, or using indoctrination theory and making a new ending that addresses these points would probably make the most people happy.
#1138
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:54
JeeWeeJ
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- Members
- 275 messages
Well, I guess I'll just drop my 2 cents in here aswel.
First of, let me say that I, like so many others here, loved the game to death. It made me laugh, it made me cry and it made me rage (in a good way mind you!).
But as so many others have already explained what makes this game SO GOOD, let me focus on the few issues I had with it. (and yes, this might sound very negative, but that is definately not my intention)
Let me begin with the things from a technical/gameplay point of view:
Well, only have one point on this though: the ending. And this has been said by so many people before me, but it just didnt make any sense to me. To me, it felt completely out tone compared to the rest of the ME series. Sure, we have space magic in the form of biotics and stuff like that, but this just boggled my mind. Aside from that the exploding mass relays didn't make any sense to me (after finishing the Arrival DLC) all I could do was putting down my console and stare at my TV for a few minutes.
Hell, I even had a phonecall from a friend who asked me if I could make any sense out of it! Luckily for me, the Indoctrination theory has been my source of hope and logic concerning this, but it's kind of sad that this has to be provided by the player community.
I would have liked some closure, I think all know by know that Shepard lives (or at least: seems to live), so please Bioware, take this chance to make things right. I'm fine with my shep dying, but at least let me know that he did so saving the galaxy from damnation.
In closing: I would once again like to thank Bioware for listening to us fans, and I would also like to thank all the line holding fans out there!
Stay classy and hold the line!
First of, let me say that I, like so many others here, loved the game to death. It made me laugh, it made me cry and it made me rage (in a good way mind you!).
But as so many others have already explained what makes this game SO GOOD, let me focus on the few issues I had with it. (and yes, this might sound very negative, but that is definately not my intention)
Let me begin with the things from a technical/gameplay point of view:
- The link between singleplayer and multiplayer:
Let me start by saying that I'm a ME fan from the beginning. I started with ME on my XBOX and loved the games ever since. Hell, when my previous XBOX broke, I ordered a data transfer cable from Microsfot for WAY too much money, just so I could save my ME and ME2 saves. However, I do NOT play muliplayer games, as I think that that should be a free service. So I'm stuck with XBOX-Live silver. And then I found out that it's practically impossible to get the perfect ending (with the secret cutscene) without MP! Deu to the choices I made, I couldn't get my rating higher than 3700-ish. I found this to be very annoying. - The journal:
That the journal doesn't update wasn't even the biggest problem I had with it. No, my biggest problem (especially later in the game) was that every time I opened it, it openend in the MIDDLE of my quest tracker! So near the end of the game, every time I had to open the journal I had to scroll through all my already finished quests just to get to the top. And as I'm working in the software Q&A business myself, that became a BIG no-no for me. - The security scanner aboard the Normandy:
I found it to be pretty irritating to be forced to wait for that scanner to complete. Sure, the banter between the two guards was fun to listen to, but still. If I wanted to quickly check something in the war room it took far longer than I wanted because of that stupid scanner..
Well, only have one point on this though: the ending. And this has been said by so many people before me, but it just didnt make any sense to me. To me, it felt completely out tone compared to the rest of the ME series. Sure, we have space magic in the form of biotics and stuff like that, but this just boggled my mind. Aside from that the exploding mass relays didn't make any sense to me (after finishing the Arrival DLC) all I could do was putting down my console and stare at my TV for a few minutes.
Hell, I even had a phonecall from a friend who asked me if I could make any sense out of it! Luckily for me, the Indoctrination theory has been my source of hope and logic concerning this, but it's kind of sad that this has to be provided by the player community.
I would have liked some closure, I think all know by know that Shepard lives (or at least: seems to live), so please Bioware, take this chance to make things right. I'm fine with my shep dying, but at least let me know that he did so saving the galaxy from damnation.
In closing: I would once again like to thank Bioware for listening to us fans, and I would also like to thank all the line holding fans out there!
Stay classy and hold the line!
#1139
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:55
ThaDPG
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- Members
- 370 messages
Ok, well I think the biggest things for me are:
-It's ok to keep the 3 basic endings we have, but flesh them out more, give us a chance to investigate, to actually be able to understand this whole star child/Reaper thing, a chance to fight back against what most of us see as going totally against anything most of our Shepards would believe in, much less go along with.
-Whether we get a bad ending, or a good ending, there were definitly squadmates that werent with us, give us an epilogue for them, and some of the more notable support characters, including the NPC's from ME 2 that weren't available to actually be in you squad in ME 3. Also, whoever died or didnt die, we'd like to know how our actions affected the galaxy as a whole, whether the mass effect relays were destroyed or not in our ending. One of the main things most of us want is closure to this great series of games, whether this is the last we see of Mass Effect or not.
-Give us a diversity of endings, ranging from really bad, to really good, and in between, instead of the 3 cookie cutter endings we have now.
By the way, thanks for actually listening to us and actively trying to at least hear us out.
-It's ok to keep the 3 basic endings we have, but flesh them out more, give us a chance to investigate, to actually be able to understand this whole star child/Reaper thing, a chance to fight back against what most of us see as going totally against anything most of our Shepards would believe in, much less go along with.
-Whether we get a bad ending, or a good ending, there were definitly squadmates that werent with us, give us an epilogue for them, and some of the more notable support characters, including the NPC's from ME 2 that weren't available to actually be in you squad in ME 3. Also, whoever died or didnt die, we'd like to know how our actions affected the galaxy as a whole, whether the mass effect relays were destroyed or not in our ending. One of the main things most of us want is closure to this great series of games, whether this is the last we see of Mass Effect or not.
-Give us a diversity of endings, ranging from really bad, to really good, and in between, instead of the 3 cookie cutter endings we have now.
By the way, thanks for actually listening to us and actively trying to at least hear us out.
#1140
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:56
die-yng
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I really still want different, multiple endings, not just variations of one of the same. I kind of understand the existing ending a bit better now, to be able to accept it as ONE of multiple endings.
Though I still think it has plot holes and logical flaws and a Shepard that is acting out of character.
There might be reasons for that, if so, let us know don't let the game end thinking we were somehow betrayed.
I understand that Bioware wants Shepard to end us some tragic hero, that somehow always succeeded, except at his last task. But would it really kill you to provide a more positive alternative, where we don't either have to die, kill a whole species (Geth) or destroy the existing galactic culture as it is (synthesis)?
There always has been the possibility to achieve a positive ending in your games before, why stop that at the end of your greatest series yet? With a galactic readiness of a hundred, full paragon or renegade and a EMS of more than 7000 points, there should be a more positive choice.
For a trilogy of games with 100+ hours game time per playthrough a few short videoclips are not enough. Why not give a short general overview of what happens with the galactic races and with Shepard's crew. Who did survive the way we played, did they have good lives?
In the one existing ending, I want Shepard to at least be more active in his discussion with Catalyst.
Through what exists up until now, it's really never explained why Shepard would just so readily fold and give in. There must be some kind of explanation why Shep would just accept what Catalyst tells him at face value.
The clip with the Normandy trying to escape the shockwave makes no sense at all.
Joker would not abandon battle.
In the case of choosing to destroy all reaper tech, normally EDI should be destroyed, is it even possible for the Normandy to flee, when EDI is no longer active? If Edi somehow wasn't destroyed, some mention of it would be nice.
No way would your LI just leave without knowing Shepard's fate, at least not when your LI was part of your crew since ME1. In fact I don't think any of Shepard's squad members would just leave Shep.
For all of this reasons the scene should be removed. Showing the surviving squaddies on earth, trying to understand what transpired, would make far more sense. Maybe even let them search for Shep's remains.
Is everybody on the Citadel, but the keepers, dead? Is there even still a Citadel left after the explosion?
Why not show more planets than earth, when the Reapers die or leave? Show us Palaven, Thessia, one or two colonies and let the survivors there rejoice as well.
That can't be so much effort and it somehow seems wrong to only show earth, when uniting the galaxy was such a major theme in the game.
That's about all with the ending.
Some minor stuff didn't sit so well with me.
The Quest journal should be updated. There has never been a problem with it before, neither in ME1 nor ME2, but the journal in 3 really sucks.
If possible I'd like a bit of variation in the side quests, all this scanning planets and then running around on the Citadel gets kind of boring, in a way that not even the endless Mako missions in ME1 bored me.
I like that most characters talk more, but since a lot of the conversation works without the dialogue wheel now, you run the risk of missing some good stuff.
I don't know if any changes at this time are possible, but I generally would like a bit more oportunities for me to choose what Shepard is saying.
I'm used to leading Shepard's conversations, so being just a spectator for so often seems kind of strange.
Some of the romances are seriously lacking in content. I enjoyed what I saw of all of them so far, but both with Ash and Liara (the ones I played at least a substantial part of), there are parts in the game where nothing really happens and you just get the standard reply when you try to talk to them.
Though I still think it has plot holes and logical flaws and a Shepard that is acting out of character.
There might be reasons for that, if so, let us know don't let the game end thinking we were somehow betrayed.
I understand that Bioware wants Shepard to end us some tragic hero, that somehow always succeeded, except at his last task. But would it really kill you to provide a more positive alternative, where we don't either have to die, kill a whole species (Geth) or destroy the existing galactic culture as it is (synthesis)?
There always has been the possibility to achieve a positive ending in your games before, why stop that at the end of your greatest series yet? With a galactic readiness of a hundred, full paragon or renegade and a EMS of more than 7000 points, there should be a more positive choice.
For a trilogy of games with 100+ hours game time per playthrough a few short videoclips are not enough. Why not give a short general overview of what happens with the galactic races and with Shepard's crew. Who did survive the way we played, did they have good lives?
In the one existing ending, I want Shepard to at least be more active in his discussion with Catalyst.
Through what exists up until now, it's really never explained why Shepard would just so readily fold and give in. There must be some kind of explanation why Shep would just accept what Catalyst tells him at face value.
The clip with the Normandy trying to escape the shockwave makes no sense at all.
Joker would not abandon battle.
In the case of choosing to destroy all reaper tech, normally EDI should be destroyed, is it even possible for the Normandy to flee, when EDI is no longer active? If Edi somehow wasn't destroyed, some mention of it would be nice.
No way would your LI just leave without knowing Shepard's fate, at least not when your LI was part of your crew since ME1. In fact I don't think any of Shepard's squad members would just leave Shep.
For all of this reasons the scene should be removed. Showing the surviving squaddies on earth, trying to understand what transpired, would make far more sense. Maybe even let them search for Shep's remains.
Is everybody on the Citadel, but the keepers, dead? Is there even still a Citadel left after the explosion?
Why not show more planets than earth, when the Reapers die or leave? Show us Palaven, Thessia, one or two colonies and let the survivors there rejoice as well.
That can't be so much effort and it somehow seems wrong to only show earth, when uniting the galaxy was such a major theme in the game.
That's about all with the ending.
Some minor stuff didn't sit so well with me.
The Quest journal should be updated. There has never been a problem with it before, neither in ME1 nor ME2, but the journal in 3 really sucks.
If possible I'd like a bit of variation in the side quests, all this scanning planets and then running around on the Citadel gets kind of boring, in a way that not even the endless Mako missions in ME1 bored me.
I like that most characters talk more, but since a lot of the conversation works without the dialogue wheel now, you run the risk of missing some good stuff.
I don't know if any changes at this time are possible, but I generally would like a bit more oportunities for me to choose what Shepard is saying.
I'm used to leading Shepard's conversations, so being just a spectator for so often seems kind of strange.
Some of the romances are seriously lacking in content. I enjoyed what I saw of all of them so far, but both with Ash and Liara (the ones I played at least a substantial part of), there are parts in the game where nothing really happens and you just get the standard reply when you try to talk to them.
#1141
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 09:58
weedyfun
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- Members
- 4 221 messages
I've mentioned this in another thread before, but the game is extremely buggy for me, my Shepard gets stuck sometimes and also my squadmembers, resulting in a two/one against a whole wave of enemies fight.
I'm sure I'm not the only person with this face import issue. I cannot import my canon Shep's face that I created in ME1 and I would appreciate it if this can be fixed. I really like my ME1 Shep's face...
The god-child was just silly, absurd and not believable. what the hell has Shepard been smoking? or spiking?!
Pretty much all has been said about the ending.. it made my brain bleed out my ears a little.. big 'WTF just happened' moment..
I'm sure I'm not the only person with this face import issue. I cannot import my canon Shep's face that I created in ME1 and I would appreciate it if this can be fixed. I really like my ME1 Shep's face...
The god-child was just silly, absurd and not believable. what the hell has Shepard been smoking? or spiking?!
Pretty much all has been said about the ending.. it made my brain bleed out my ears a little.. big 'WTF just happened' moment..
#1142
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:00
kegNeggs
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- 335 messages
Kittenpirate wrote...
I want my blue babies.
That is all.
This.
Fluffy Bunnies and such
#1143
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:01
Priisus
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- Members
- 445 messages
Above all else for the love of everything, please make us able to get 4k+ EMS with just SP campaign. I've done the math, it is impossible to get 8000 war assets (4000 EMS at 50% readiness) without the use of Multiplayer/Infiltrator/Datapad.
Many people have proved that this is impossible. We're promised that MP is not needed to get the most experience of ME3... Unfortunately, it is not.
I'm not going to add any more suggestions about the ending, there are already too much suggestions/debate about it. Although if I have any comment about it... please give Mass Effect a fitting ending this awesome trilogy desereves.
Many people have proved that this is impossible. We're promised that MP is not needed to get the most experience of ME3... Unfortunately, it is not.
I'm not going to add any more suggestions about the ending, there are already too much suggestions/debate about it. Although if I have any comment about it... please give Mass Effect a fitting ending this awesome trilogy desereves.
Modifié par Priisus, 17 mars 2012 - 10:05 .
#1144
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:01
jay.s
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#1145
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:01
Jobasha
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- 148 messages
I interpret the latest words from Casey Hudson as "sorry, the ending is what it is, we had no aces up our sleeves; we'll do the Omega DLC but there is hope for a retconned ending yet".
Honestly I am not interested: if you had planned something different all along to be released later (indoctrination theory), then I would have stuck around. Otherwise I would have appreciated more a defense of the 'artistic' decisions. Retcon is something I always steer clear of if I can. I am simply done with Mass Effect as of now.
Nonetheless, I will point out some things I would have liked to see, just to give a contribution to the community:
– different cutscenes for different endings, using the same cutscene is lazy and confusing;
– more clarification on: the Crucible, the Catalyst and their origin; the nature of Reapers (even though I don't reject the explanations you provided in the endings, they are still incomplete);
– some sort of confrontation with Harbinger;
– an explanation about what happens to the Galaxy after the events of the ending (I am not completely against the relays blowing up, but at least explain how do the fleet and the civilisations survive);
– what happens to the Normandy's crew;
– no mystical or religious overtones because they are completely out of context in the game and in the saga;
– if Shepard has to sacrifice him/herself at least provide a good explanation why;
– the role of TIM in the ending is completely unclear, I would not even know where to begin to give suggestions about it;
– why was Harbinger so obsessed with Shepard? why did he try to take him alive?
Good luck with that.
EDIT: oh, and as many people are saying, I would have actually shown a battle, with different cutscenes depending on my assets.
Honestly I am not interested: if you had planned something different all along to be released later (indoctrination theory), then I would have stuck around. Otherwise I would have appreciated more a defense of the 'artistic' decisions. Retcon is something I always steer clear of if I can. I am simply done with Mass Effect as of now.
Nonetheless, I will point out some things I would have liked to see, just to give a contribution to the community:
– different cutscenes for different endings, using the same cutscene is lazy and confusing;
– more clarification on: the Crucible, the Catalyst and their origin; the nature of Reapers (even though I don't reject the explanations you provided in the endings, they are still incomplete);
– some sort of confrontation with Harbinger;
– an explanation about what happens to the Galaxy after the events of the ending (I am not completely against the relays blowing up, but at least explain how do the fleet and the civilisations survive);
– what happens to the Normandy's crew;
– no mystical or religious overtones because they are completely out of context in the game and in the saga;
– if Shepard has to sacrifice him/herself at least provide a good explanation why;
– the role of TIM in the ending is completely unclear, I would not even know where to begin to give suggestions about it;
– why was Harbinger so obsessed with Shepard? why did he try to take him alive?
Good luck with that.
EDIT: oh, and as many people are saying, I would have actually shown a battle, with different cutscenes depending on my assets.
Modifié par Jobasha, 17 mars 2012 - 10:08 .
#1146
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:02
jhoe06
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- 4 messages
Mass Effect 3 is one of the best games I have ever played. Playing it I felt invested in a way that I never would have expected from a video game. When Udina pointed the gun at the other councilor, I shot him before I even knew what happened. Choosing between the Geth and the Quarians was a hard decision. Also, seeing the thresher maw kill the reaper, Mordin getting the job done, Grunt covered in blood or killing the reaper on Rannoch... all truly memorable moments. And this is just from the top of my head.
Despite all the good things I have to say about the game, the ending felt incomplete. One complaint is that the endings are all too similar. Also, Mass Effect 3 is a game where your choices make the difference - where you have the chance to let your choices play out and see how they affect the game. The way the ending is left now it feels that whatever happens next is just left up to your imagination. I don't want to imagine - I want to see how my choices impact the game.
Getting the current "best" ending is difficult (without multiplayer). I didn't make it. However, the difference between the "best" ending and the second best at the moment is a 2-second clip. So why the hell bother. I'd like to see that military strength affects casualties, number of survivors, whether Shepard can survive in the end, your crew/LI etc.. Some sacrifices had to be made - but just give some closure and don't leave it up to the imagination. If I wanted to imagine how it ends, I could have just stopped playing halfway through.
Despite all the good things I have to say about the game, the ending felt incomplete. One complaint is that the endings are all too similar. Also, Mass Effect 3 is a game where your choices make the difference - where you have the chance to let your choices play out and see how they affect the game. The way the ending is left now it feels that whatever happens next is just left up to your imagination. I don't want to imagine - I want to see how my choices impact the game.
Getting the current "best" ending is difficult (without multiplayer). I didn't make it. However, the difference between the "best" ending and the second best at the moment is a 2-second clip. So why the hell bother. I'd like to see that military strength affects casualties, number of survivors, whether Shepard can survive in the end, your crew/LI etc.. Some sacrifices had to be made - but just give some closure and don't leave it up to the imagination. If I wanted to imagine how it ends, I could have just stopped playing halfway through.
#1147
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:03
Jeb231
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- Members
- 309 messages
The indoc theory would easily fix the last mission of the game and the destruction of the mass relays. Wether it was planned or not isn't relevant. Run with it.
#1148
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:04
Trix-Rabbit
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- Members
- 395 messages
Everyone already mention the ending problem that effects re playability overall.
Ill add in. PC Optimizations, xbox/ps3 is VERY dated hardware, pc version needs some love including releasing the Hi-Res textures. Address Memory issues and things that were cut due to xbox/ps3 having not very much memory.(eg holstering)
High FOV for both sp and mp or adjustable. Also Mouse sensitivity for those of us on 3500 dpi or greater mice. Even setting Sens to its lowest is insanely high.
Go back to ME2 style gamesave imports.
And on a personal note. Fix the damn Love Scenes. At 30 years old it was a nightmare to even buy this game(being a young looking person). Which somehow ended up involving, LOL, a trip to the dmv(30 miles away mind you) due to being carded and the teller not even believing my age(i came back later with a fresh ID and and gave them some sour grapes for my troubles. Might as well add in something worth carding over or remove it all together in future titles.
Also Tali's face on rannoch or remove the picture after she dies and never reveal it.
Ps My grammar sucks.
Ill add in. PC Optimizations, xbox/ps3 is VERY dated hardware, pc version needs some love including releasing the Hi-Res textures. Address Memory issues and things that were cut due to xbox/ps3 having not very much memory.(eg holstering)
High FOV for both sp and mp or adjustable. Also Mouse sensitivity for those of us on 3500 dpi or greater mice. Even setting Sens to its lowest is insanely high.
Go back to ME2 style gamesave imports.
And on a personal note. Fix the damn Love Scenes. At 30 years old it was a nightmare to even buy this game(being a young looking person). Which somehow ended up involving, LOL, a trip to the dmv(30 miles away mind you) due to being carded and the teller not even believing my age(i came back later with a fresh ID and and gave them some sour grapes for my troubles. Might as well add in something worth carding over or remove it all together in future titles.
Also Tali's face on rannoch or remove the picture after she dies and never reveal it.
Ps My grammar sucks.
#1149
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:04
Eclipse merc
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- 1 174 messages
Kittenpirate wrote...
I want my blue babies.
That is all.
I support little blue babies.
#1150
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 10:06
Eliza
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- 163 messages
First of all I want to thank the devs for the great job they did on ME 3. They had astonishing ideas, put in much atmosphere, brought back most of the characters we met and loved/hated in the first games, there was a well balanced kind of humor in the game that made me smile many times. The cut scenes are great to watch. So ME 3 could be my favorite game of the series.
But I have some things I would like you to think about:
1) The ME 2 romances should get a romantic scene like the VS, if Shepard wants to continue the relationship. I always thought the ME 2 romances were equal to the romances of the first game, but it seems they are not. That makes me sad because my FemShep found the love of her life in Thane. But when she meets him in the hospital and later on when he is dying there is not even a chance to tell him that she loves him.
2) Thanes death: I will not complain about his death (although I would prefer to have the option to save him or at least to prolong his life by a cure, a transplant or whatever) but I would perfer a version where he is not dying in the hospital. That is what he told Shep in ME 2 - he doesn't want that.
3) The endings: More additional endings would make me and most of the fans happy. For me, I do not need an ending where everybody survives, no, that is not necessary and would be too unrealistic. But a hard to get but possible ending with Shepard and his LI and one or two of his friends alive would be great. It would even motivate to play the game again when its hard to achieve but not impossible. With the endings we got the motivation is not very high to play again. That is what is making me sad. I played ME 2 so many times and hoped to to the same with ME 3. But at the moment I got no reason to do it because I have no choice to get a satisfying ending where the hero gets the girl/boy as a reward for all he/she has gone through.
Now I feel like I did a great job at work but my boss doesn't even take notice of it but fires me instead (not a good feeling for me).
But I have some things I would like you to think about:
1) The ME 2 romances should get a romantic scene like the VS, if Shepard wants to continue the relationship. I always thought the ME 2 romances were equal to the romances of the first game, but it seems they are not. That makes me sad because my FemShep found the love of her life in Thane. But when she meets him in the hospital and later on when he is dying there is not even a chance to tell him that she loves him.
2) Thanes death: I will not complain about his death (although I would prefer to have the option to save him or at least to prolong his life by a cure, a transplant or whatever) but I would perfer a version where he is not dying in the hospital. That is what he told Shep in ME 2 - he doesn't want that.
3) The endings: More additional endings would make me and most of the fans happy. For me, I do not need an ending where everybody survives, no, that is not necessary and would be too unrealistic. But a hard to get but possible ending with Shepard and his LI and one or two of his friends alive would be great. It would even motivate to play the game again when its hard to achieve but not impossible. With the endings we got the motivation is not very high to play again. That is what is making me sad. I played ME 2 so many times and hoped to to the same with ME 3. But at the moment I got no reason to do it because I have no choice to get a satisfying ending where the hero gets the girl/boy as a reward for all he/she has gone through.
Now I feel like I did a great job at work but my boss doesn't even take notice of it but fires me instead (not a good feeling for me).
