7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Thin]

I know that this isn't something that can be fixed for the entire game, but I feel the need to voice it here for some stupid reason.

I feel a complete disconnect from my Shepard throughout all of Mass Effect 3. With dialogue choices so few and far between, it gives the opportunity to let the writers and the cast a great chance to strut their stuff (and for the most part they do a wonderful job!) but it comes at the cost of feeling like I'm in control of my Shepard. She approaches things in a way that I can't imagine mine doing. Before I get a dialogue choice, I already feel like this isn't my own Shepard. Like I'm just choosing if she's going to be a little snarky or not.

At one point, elsewhere, I said that it was more like playing MGS4 than Mass Effect. I wish I had a better comparison, but sadly, I don't. It has emotion, yes. It has emotion in spades. It has a degree of subtle care in scenes that haven't been in previous titles. But I don't feel any degree of control.

I'm hoping that a little of this can be worked into a fix, but I'm not holding my breath. And I'm okay if it isn't. It's just... frustrating to me. I fell in love with so many of Bioware's games because I felt a direct connection to my character, that I was really crafting her fate the entire time, and I don't get that sensation in this latest installment. I can't play a woman who is kind and caring to her allies, but harshly puts those who slow her down in their place.

I understand that part of this is also to drive home the way that Shepard is... worn down? Is that the right phrase? That's why I'm not raising a fuss. There's not a lot of chance to show that unless we give up the reins of the character a little bit. (Not without a ton of work, which putting into a fix or patch or DLC... yeah, it wouldn't be worth it, fiscally.) But if even a bit more hands-on control over my character were to be included in future DLC, I'd be happy.

Though I could make other requests, the only thing that I could realistically request would be a patch to Joker's appearance. There's something about his eyes that's supremely creepy, even before EDI gets her body. That only makes it worse due to context. It really puts his jokes and witty banter in a rather negative light. Perhaps it's uncanny valley, but that seems odd since I don't really get that effect from anybody else in the game.

Thank you for your time.

[nomoredruggs]

Choices is what it comes down to for me aswell.
In a game that was heavily about choice, overcoming impossible odds, and working together, the ending seemed very forced.
It feels like we have been building Shepard throught out the trilogy, identifying with her character, only to have no choice on her fate at the last moment. That was very unsetling.

DA:O is a good example of what I thought the endings might be like actually. Or ME2, if you will.

Personaly, I would like to choose whether my Shepard lives or dies in the end, or if she has to sacrifice someone else crew/fleets...

But honestly, I would like the option for a golden ending were Shep survives and reunites with her LI, if alternative endings dlc was to be produced and released. My Shepard deserves that, damnit!

And ofcourse  I would be willing to pay for that.

Modifié par nomoredruggs, 17 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[cg8900]

I want all possible LI to be in the flashback, not default Liara. that is very annoying, to flachback to liara instead of your LI. It would be understandable if EVERYONE flashbacked to her, but no ash/kaidan lovers get to see them while the rest (ME2 LI) don't.

I like to have closure in the end, an end that explains things and answers all your questions, it can be a sad ending (but I rather it be a good old cliche happy ending), but just don't want it to raise more questions than it answers. if this is the last we see of shepard than we need a closure on his story.

also want closure on the romances, SPECIALLY ME2 LI, since they were bad treated compared to the ME1 ones.....don't understad the favoritism of me1, i.e. when Mordin had just died shepard gets upset and when liara (!!!) talk to him there is the option "I miss kaidan" WTF.....I miss mordin, but I guess that doesn't matter.

I want the decisions we make to matter in the end!!! all those decisions seemed to be in vain, cause the end is the same for everyone, I thought Mass effect was about choosing you own decision and see how that affects you in the big picture later on....but it turned not to affect much at all.

all that said, I still loved the game and don't regret buying the CE of it, it has awesome fighting and graphics, there were some awesome mission that I really liked, like Samaras and Grunts mission. all those banshees scare the **** out of me, evry time I hear their scream I just run for my life, lol and I actually cried (which I normally don't) when grunt was left behind cause I tought he was gonna die, luckly he didn't. I am TOTALLY addicted to multiplayer, so keep that up as well.....I just thing it's a pain in the ass somtimes that it takes years before you unlock a new race

Oh...and more Miranda plz!!!!

Modifié par cg8900, 17 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[chmarr]

i went through mass effect 3 with a fine tooth comb, i collected every assest possible in the game and multiplayer AND the awfull IOS game to get my readyness up to 100% .

my gripes are this from a professional stand point is this

the endings from the media department of where i am ran all 3 endings side by side and there professional view is that the endings were lazy rehashes, the only diffrences are the start of the cutscene where you choose blue, white or red, they could not make any sense at all of it and these are people who live, breath and play games, they also read the leaked script in its entirity and they then suggested this.

1)- REINSTATE the orginal endings and if possible introduce a possible further 3 endings with a possible 4th and 5th hidden endings

(EXAMPLE)
the 4th could be interactive where shepard is running through the shadow forest which this time he is fighting reaper forces just like the geth construct, to which the end of said level could be shepard coming back to life OR finally beating the habinger programming that MIGHT have invaded his cerberus biotics to which end means the god child is TIM, who in turn only told shepard he had 3 choices just to get him to do his dirty work for him.

the 5th ending could be in all the golden ending, which can only be atained IF its done on NG+ ON insanity WITH 100% readyness AND full paragon (minimal renegade acceptible)

2)- plot holes REALLY need to be filled in BUT from trademark and copyright registration in the uk mass effect 4 was registered in the first 1/4 of 2011 so it might be a continuation of the series.

3) multiplayer from i am looking at should NOT be incorporated into singleplayer, THAT is a bad strategy reasons being are simple, not everyone like multiplayer shooters not everyone likes multiplayer and another, not everyone has an internet connection fast enough (i live in one of the uk's slowest broadband blackspot areas where an internet connection is sub 0.25meg)
and this was not done by other game developers because it never worked and ruined the game for everyone (research this people epic games, bungie, both tested and it got negative feedback)

4) ME2 squadmates could have been added as full squadmates in ME3 as i am now seeing they could have been better (i personally never liked kaiden or ashley) would love to have had a rachnai squadmate mission.

5) IF POSSIBLE put back in the cut missions and dialog scenes as it add's more depth and more of a story, i also heard there WAS some missions cut "due to time constraints" (and pressure from the suits) re-add those

there is so much more i could say but i cant as i would start rambling on and not make sense.

as the ex-pr guy in another thread explanined, EA/Bioware are using delay tactics now

[letsgetbeardy]

Ashely Babies! Happy ending for Shepard and Ashely Williams! let it be so, bioware! Please!

[Fame-KIllz]

Posing again for justice.


 This is why we don't like the endings:
#1
#2

And this is what you should go with instead (youtube vid)
Indoctrination theory

[Hyperion II]

1. Ending that dosn't suck. Shepard dying is fine for some of the endings, but let us also sit down somewhere with the squad thinking of how great we used to be and plan for the future.
A scene wiht the LI will also be nice. NO "Joker running away and Normandy crashes"
and NO "Bye-bye, mass relays" for the Good ending.

2. An epilogue for the different races and characters. It has been done for Dragon Age, It can also be done for Mass Effect.

3. Make it FREE! We've paid for a FULL game, and that includes the REAL ENDING!

[Thesski]

Things I would really love to see changed:

1) Confirmation of the Indoctrination theory. Speculation is one thing, but it's the end of the series; I would really prefer to see more closure than we got.

2) An actual conclusion. So Shepard gets Indoctrinated, or doesn't. What actually happened, and what happens to the galaxy? While it's interesting to show things purely from Shepard's perspective, the Mass Effect games as a whole and particularly ME3, where we actually get to go and solve the galaxy's problems, really got us invested in the fate of the galaxy. It'd be nice to actually see for sure that the galactic war actually ended, and what happened to our companions, and all those nice krogans on Tuchanka etc.

3) At least give us the option to not have our effective war preparedness rating rely on the multiplayer game and/or the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch app. While it was an interesting idea, it doesn't really hold up for everyone. I paid for a single-player game. I am not good at multiplayer games, don't actually like playing them and even if I did, I don't have the time to devote to that as well as the single-player game. I don't own any of the tech I'd need to play the iPhone app. I can't be the only one who's facing this problem and I don't think those of us who don't have an iPhone and don't like/can't play/got bored with the multiplayer game should be punished for that. If the multiplayer system needs to be tied into the single-player game, the amount we play multiplayer or the iPhone app should give us a bonus to our single-player game.

[Smallfry20]

As most everyone else has said, Mass Effect 3 is an amazing game right up until the final moments.
Personally I would have liked to have seen the Rachni quest line have more of an impact as it felt a little like a throw away quest line but it was worth doing for Grunt's scenes.

As for the ending, I fall quite firmly into the camp that says it was unsatisfying and vague. Offering no real closure and hardly the epic finale that we were lead to expect.
Mass Effect always felt like an action RPG appealing to fans of the likes of Star wars, Babylon 5 and other more accessible action stories. To suddenly switch in the very last scenes to something high concept and more suited to Arthur C Clark or Issac Asimov was jarring to say the least and only succeeded in achieving a huge player disconnect.

Bioware have done bitter sweet before and done it well, with the likes of Dragon Age: Origins. But even then you managed closure, you see how your choices throughout effect the world after your death. You get to see what your companions went on to do and how your influence effected them. There's even the option to survive and have happy ending should you so wish. All of which was denied to us with this travesty of an ending.

Where was the final confrontation with Harbinger? You spent some time building him up to be the mouth piece of the Reapers only to give him a cameo at best.

The 'boss battle' with TIM was very well done and Anderson's final moments very touching. But everything after that point destroyed what should have been a genre defining epic.

[Jamie9]

So forumites... we all want variations of changing the ending (whether that's from the beginning of the Earth battle to the appearance of the StarChild), but how much would you be willing to pay? Honestly, this would help BioWare, maybe we should set up a poll or something. If they are going to put quality work into this it's going to cost them money.

If they redid the Battle for Earth showing lots of our War Assets, that's going to cost quite a bit. Those shots look expensive, with so much going on at once.

How much?

[LwjzeSlak]

If you are really listening (and that's a big IF), I will give my two cents here.

The game was a huge improvement over the first two, at least in terms of gameplay. I loved the weight system, weapon customization and squadmates interacting with eachother. I loved the cutscenes. I have waited for this game anxiously from the moment it was anounced. I'm probably not the only one. I couldn't sleep 2 days before it came out. I played ti as soon as possible, thus missing 7 hours of sleep.

I fell in love with the game. Multiplayer is great, so was the singleplayer up to the last 10 mintues. War assests were rgeat, as I had a feeling I am really gathering a big force to stop the Reapers. I cried when Thane, Mordin and legion died (yes it was that emotional to me). I loved the first 2 games, and I've put over 150 hours into them. I was thinking that I will make dozens of Shepards, just to experience different endings.

But as it turned out, it all meant nothing. I went into the game, kinda knowing that Shepard will die. I already faced it, but I just wanted my bro Garrus to live. I purposedly didn't take him with me on the last mission, so I wouldn't risk him to die. Then Harbinger hit me. I panicked, since my squadmates weren't there, neither were their bodies. I went into the Citadel and when Anderson started to communicate with me, i knew something wasn't right,

How can he be behind me, and at the same moment in front of me? There was only one way to the panel, and from where did TIM and Anderson come? Nonetheless I finished the game. When the starchild appeared, he only made things blurrier to me. As he said that I will die, I stopped caring and just destroyed the Power conduit.i was one of the few who saw Shepard take a breath after the cutscene. I knew there was something more to it.

And so I was depressed for the first day after finishing the game. the series I absolutely love, ended on the worst note possible. No closure. In the ending I started crying, not because of Shepard's death, but because of Joker's and Garrus's sudden department. They said they will always have my back no matter what. Why did you run away then? So I stumbled upon threads about the Indoctrination theory. It gave me hope back, but Casey Hudson's statement just took it all away.

So I stand here ranting hopelessly, as a long BW fan. i loved KOTOR and Baldur's Gate. Those games were great, and i couldn't believe what happened. the company that made epic games, just flat down betrayed me. I went to replay the endings, but when I saw they were all the same, just in a different color, I knew all hope was lost. They dropped the ball. All the paid reviews, and first time Mass Effect players saying it was great made them think otherwise. While us, true fans stay here, ranting about theories, and how they'll make it right.

At least give us true answers? Why give us false hope ("All your choices will matter in the end"), if you took it all away in the final 10 plothole ridden minutes? This was devastating, and I'm beginning to think that i spent 60 € just to make me depressed. I can barely make myself play any ME game with knowing what the ending is. That was a punch to the stomach Bioware, it truly was. So stay there in your imaginary little world, where all people think the ending was amazing. Needless to say, I am one of the many who will stop buying your products and stop supporting you.

[ShadowAussie]

stargatefan1990 wrote...

Depending on your War assets multiple endings would ensue is what i imagined

1. Reapers win Galactic civilization screwed(Or the ending to mass effect 3 would do because the repercussions of that ending did more damage than the reapers could ever do(mass relays exploding))

2. Depending on alot of your past decisions from Me1/2/3 this could go ever way at best you save the Current cycle but at great cost

3.The hardest to get Happy ending with LI

all 3 would be different for everyone due to all the choices you have made through all 3 games

you make a point but after finshing the game I had a change to buy the collectors edition strategy guide and had a look a player choices with mass effect 2 squard mates. only 3 squard mates had less changes to alternatively be saved and to life longer. Mordin, Legion and thane. its problematic but everyone else survives. having said in mass effect 2 import all squard mates 12 have survived the suicide mission on the collectors base

[Captain_Oats]

I missed a Krogan Crew-Member in ME3... Maybe some sort of DLC with Wrex as an partial Crew-Member... And anyways: Change the End.

[SkyCaptanio]

 I loved the game but I have to say I'd like the Mass Realys to not get blown up. It's hard to feel like you just achieved everything you were fighting for when all Galactic Civilization effectively collapses. 

Apart from some aspects of the ending it was a brilliant game. Don't change anything else.

[ciclopez]

hi there.
Erase the last 20 minutes of the game.
then:

1) no plot holes
2) An amazing boss fight. (or something similar..... look for marauder shields on internet to have an idea how ridiculous is the actual ending. A Marauder was the final boss.........)
3) Do not wanna see the God child... he's an horrible character
4) i do not need 20 endings... just few that make sense and give you a feeling of satisfaction and desire to come back and play the game again.
5) Implement all the choices you made and the war assets in the ending.
bye

[bpzrn]

The current endings are much too similar to one another, the
pre release word direct from BW was that there would be distinct “different” endings.
What you provided was ambiguous and extremely lazy to say these 16 are
different (from ME historical point of view they leave a lot to be desired).

The other issue is the ending went down a bizarre path for this
series, we understand you wanted to go out of this with a “unforgettable”
ending but what you took your previous success and did a 360, you did this with
the best RPG game ever made and worse leading up to the ending ME3 was looking
like a 10 of 10.

Suggestions:

Ditch the Star child / magic stuff; it simply does not fit
at all

Yea, have a Boss fight like you had the previous 2 games, it
works, its expected. Can be before the ultimate ending if you want to be
different and not “end” on this but isn’t that what the long battle leading up
to the beam was expected/anticipated some sort of show down with Harby?

Make my choices count for a few very different endings, in the
end I really feel the fans / customers were anticipating that,

if my readiness is at 50% and EMS is at 3000 then maybe my
squad on the ground dies, the Normandy crashes into Earth and a few survive
(not the ones with me on the ground) and Sheppard dies with less favorable
galaxy out come?

 If it’s at 75% and
4500 then perhaps the squad mates on the ground dies but the solution does not
blow the Normandy out of the sky above Earth and the galaxy Is better off and finally

 if I am above 5500
EMS and 100% readiness (yes MP needed) then its happy, most live and there is a
cut scene with my crew back at London and my LI and I kiss or something?

An epilog at the end showing what happens to your surviving
crew, Joker and EDI have little robots, Tali on her home planet with Quarians
not using masks living with Geth etc…

 

Speaking of Tali, please do a Tali DL or something to show
her in game with out a helmet, you had 2 opportunities in ME3 to nail this and
hit a homerun, on her home planet and on the Normandy before the final battle,
she even says she is now ok with Sheppard but she leaves the suit on and
stuff??? Be nice to “fix that” put some time and effort into it Vs a picture
(picture is nice but interaction in game = 1000 x better)

Modifié par bpzrn, 17 mars 2012 - 01:14 .

[Therefore_I_Am]

I believe Bioware had an original ending (before it was scrapped) where the Starkid (Catalyst) a.k.a. Casper the friendly ghost tells shepard that the whole reason the Reapers do what they do is to prevent Dark Energy from destroying the galaxy. Now, if Bioware were to bring that kind of dialogue back, I think it would make much more sense than the current Catalyst dialogue by far. Also, have us ask Investigate the kid. Give the Shepard the option to ask questions regarding the Reapers and also give Shepard the option to tell that Starkid to take a hike when he is given the choices.
Also, a different variety of choices would be amazing as everyone else has stated in this thread.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 17 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[Nelzeben]

I had some minor gripes like unskippable cutscenes, some of the auto-dialog ("big stupid jellyfish"?), among other small things, but up until the end, I absolutely adored the game. The genophage cure and geth/quarian conflict stood out in particular, both moments that moved me deeply.
I'd also like to mention that I was very happy that the ship's crew was a lot less static this time around. They move around, talk to each other - I appreciate that very much and can live with what feels like less actual dialog with them.

Now, the ending didn't work for me at all. Everything was perfectly fine (I thought the last conversation with each squadmate was very well done) until the Catalyst showed up.

*The "wise child" trope is overused as it is and giving the Catalyst that body just adds insult to injury.

*As has been stated many times, his reasoning makes no sense. At the very least, a (lengthy, reasonable) explanation should have been included. Also, the options we get make even less sense than the much ridiculed "I'm sending synthetics to kill you so you won't be killed by synthetics":
 - If I remember correctly, the "destroy" option only destroys "most technology" (ignore this if this isn't actually what was said). What does that mean? Did I just kill all quarians as well because their suits stopped working? How does it destroy technology? Is the Catalyst aware that we all started out that way and the real problem only ever was the knowledge and not much else? Things can be repaired or rebuilt.
 - How does "control" work? Is it like what Legion did? That would worry me, as nothing would really keep the reapers from attacking again just for the hell of it. Or does Shepard stay "aware" to some extent and just orders everyone to go away and then he/she spends the rest of eternity hanging out with the reapers?
 - I think "synthesis" was supposed to be the optimal ending and I probably like it the least. How is THAT supposed to work? At that point, my suspension of disbelief took a running leap out of the window. Apparently we aren't creating cyborgs, but are... fusing machines with organics. How? And, more importantly, what does that change? 99% of our DNA is (more or less) the same for everyone - that does in no way stop us from hurting, hating or killing each other.

*No matter which ending we pick, the outlook is bleak. I'm not going to go into any details, they have been discussed many, many times, but nothing can explain away the fact that everyone is basically stuck without a way to get back home. Therefore, it doesn't really matter what we achieved up until that point - the destruction of the Mass Relays changes everything so drastically. If I had to choose this is probably my biggest problem with the ending.

*Shepard must really have one hell of a concussion to just accept everything the Catalyst throws at him/her. It wouldn't have changed anything, but at least it would have been more in-character if the Catalyst ended up forcing you to decide if Shepard refused to.

*Joker and your squad just leave you behind? Anderson just leaves you to die and gets to the Citadel by himself? Please.

I know it's "edgy" and "cool" these days to have a bitter(sweet) ending and all that, but I wouldn't have minded a happy or at least hopeful one.

All that said, I thought the majority of the game was fantastic. Sadly, the ending overshadows a lot of that.

Edit: As for suggestions - I think a scene with Harbinger instead of the Catalyst would have made so much more sense. I expected to get another conversation with him, perhaps also an explanation beyond, "You wouldn't understand." I wish you would drop the destroy/control/synthesis thing altogether, though I don't think that's going to happen.

The easiest thing to add woud probably be the option to say "hell no" to the Catalyst and then go hunt down the Citadel's core or whatever you envisioned as the Catalyst's "body" and destroy that. The Citadel could still blow up, but maybe the Mass Relays would stay intact and instead the reapers only get shut down, now that their creator is gone.

If that's also too much to ask for... just an epilog would be nice. What happens to all the races? And, especially, to your squad? I'm sorry, but I just don't care about an old man telling his grandson a story, I'd like to know what happens to the characters I spent three games with.

Modifié par Nelzeben, 17 mars 2012 - 01:26 .

[wright1978]

In no particular order of importance

* Ideally i'd like you to go back and rework the entire ending concept into one that is better and with tons more variety and a lot more endings. Given that i think that's unlikely... here we go...

1) Ending Variety. I'm not a big fan of the 3 coloured choices you went with at the end of ME3.
I'd like more options but say worst case scenario and you only modify them so they actually seem to have more differentiation. I'll touch on it later but all endings need to feel unique. Go back to drawing board. What are the benefits you are going to give with control/Merge/destroy/other and what are the sacrifices of that ending too.

2) Vitally important. Show the immediate aftermath of the ending. Explain how the galaxy survives in each scenario. Don't leave it to fans to point out the giant plotholes you could steer the destiny ascension through. This will help the endings feel more varied too.

3) Ability to refuse starchild. It is simple really don't force me to agree to the idiot child's logic. Have a new ending for that scenario

4)No railroading please. Don't railroad me into destroying relays no matter what because that's cheap. Sure have an ending that destroys relays but counterbalance that with some positive not attainable with other endings.

5) Normandy. On a similar theme. Don't railroad crash. Either use Normandy upgrade or EMS to decide what happens to Normandy. Keep the Normandy at earth where the battle is taking place. Don't try and be clever and use garden of eden symbolism.

8) Show our war assets in action. Sorry but i've spent 30-40 hours battling through hell and back and you don't even have cut scenes of all the people and ships i've accumulated. It is like doing return of the jedi and removing the big end fight between the imperial ships and the rebels. So awfully cheap. I want to see Miranda hurling biotics at reaper forces, Jack and her kids putting up barriers. The destiny ascension firing, the Normandy fighting etc.

9) Get rid of the grandfather epilogue slide. It is cheap and doesn't provide any closure.

10) Flashbacks of people important to Shep. Hmm make sure your LI is there. Players have managed to mod the BIK files so really it can't be impossible to reflect people's sheps better.

11) If you jump through the hoops and Shep lives at the end. Don't show a 10 second clip. Show Shep getting up and working his way through the streets and reunite with LI if he/she survived too.

12) Make sure all endings are achievable through single player alone. Game isn't balanced. I did a completionist run, got all the big allies on side with the best outcomes and yet i'm still short because the war readiness mechanic doesn't work fairly.

[_Cmdr Shepard N-7]

Here some feedback I found to be good...

From EternalSteelfan:

A. First, a few pet peeves. Tropes are very popular for making generalizations about parts of stories we dislike, but they have a tendency to be overused and misused.

The Crucible isn't a MacGuffin. The best and most common example of an actual MacGuffin is the briefcase in Pulp Fiction; we don't know what is in the briefcase and we don't know how or why it functions, but it's important because it motivates the characters and drives the plot. Basically, a MacGuffin is important only because it's important. The Crucible in Mass Effect 3 is an actual plot device (a MacGuffin is a very specific subset of this); we are told what it is and what it's function is right from the beginning and it's use in the climax is in line with this.

The Crucible isn't an example of deus ex machina. Again, we know all along that the Crucible's function is to stop the Reapers, it's introduced at the beginning of the story, it's importance is reinforced throughout, and it's function during the climax is in line with what is expected. An example of Mass Effect ending with deus ex machina would be: the Reapers win the battle of Earth and are seemingly unstoppable, suddenly, and with no previous justification, an even more advanced race emerges from deep space and destroys the Reapers, saving Earth. The difference is obvious; one is a clearly defined plot device, the other is a magical fix with no precedent in the story.

Being the only time I'm going to talk about tropes, and for humorous purposes only, here are some I find more accurate for the ending: the lack of resolution after all the setting-shifting events, especially the lack of clarity in regards to the future of the setting and it's characters (including the protagonist and in some cases the antagonist force) may be considered no ending, the Reaper-God-Child and unexpected side effects of the Crucible may be considered diabolus ex machina, and the sudden shift of themes from hope and fighting the impossible fight to that of true art is angsty can be seen as an example of a sudden downer ending. I'm certain there are more we can shoehorn as applicable, but this is as far as I'm willing to go into tropes.

I want to iterate that I dislike how much we over analyze tropes and assign them as labels to similar and overgeneralized devices and themes. Stories are usually divergent enough from other stories that generalizing aspects of them with tropes rarely do them justice and are ambigous enough that what tropes a story actually uses are debatable. I only addressed the aforementioned devices of deus ex machina and MacGuffin because they are venerable and distinct enough that their usage in reference to Mass Effect 3 is clearly wrong. TL;DR: tropes are convenient but our time is better spent looking at the specifics of a given story.


B. The resolution of Mass Effect 3 falls short for many reasons. More than I'd care to get into, truth be told,  so I'll try to punch on at least some of the major failings through the eyes of a screenwriter.


1. The ending feels jarring and out of place and there is little closure, this is a sympton of the ending failing to live up to what we come expect from the story. As I've previously said, "Mass Effect is a conventional story with conventional expectations". A conventional story, almost all stories, follow a pretty standard plotline: Introduction - Ascending Action - Climax - Descending Action - Resolution. In film we break it up into 3 acts, roughly: the first act is the introduction, the second act is the rising action and longest act of the story, and the third act is the climax and resolution.

Mass Effect 3 and the previous games follow this plotline both as individual stories and in the grand scheme of things as a trilogy (a trilogy is basically the three act structure writ large), that is until the final moments of 3. For reference, The battle for Earth is the climax of the series and the run across no man's land to the Citadel beam is the climax of the specific game; with this in mind, the Citadel sequence is the final part of the descending action and the resolution for both the game and series, the part where the antagonist is finally defeated, the themes and dramatic questions are answered, and the loose ends are tied. Or rather, it should be. After the defeat of the Illusive Man (the antagonist role is somewhat muddled and blurry towards the end of the story, more on that briefly), the protagonist has reached his goal, the defeat of the Reapers is at hand; conventionally, this is where the protagonist would succeed, the Crucible fire, and the Reapers destroyed. Instead, the story grows convoluted (once again, this is supposed to be the resolution) at the height of the scene by jarring us out of it with the bizarre, dreamlike sequence of Sheperd's ascent on the magic platform and the introduction of an ancient and seemingly god-like form who expounds the final choice between three options, all presented symbolically in appearance and action: one which mirrors a co-antagonist's desire which has been reinforced throughout as wrong and contradictory of the protagonist's; one which is downright bizarre and is almost completely outside the scope of the game's main themes save for being somewhat in line with the primary antagonistic forces' goal; and one which accurately mirrors the protagonist's goal from since the beginning. The results of these choices vary and are wide-reaching, creating a massive upheaval of the story world, while being unclear.  All of the characters and the entire setting are left to an uncertain and sometimes confusing fate.

Just looking at what I've typed, it's apparent this is not a resolution. New information is introduced throughout the entire sequence rather than tying loose ends. New information shouldn't be introduced in a resolution unless it directly resolves something or is quickly resolved itself; definitively, it's the opposite of what a resolution is. In layman's terms, this is what makes us feel like there are more questions than answers.

The fate of the characters and the final destination they reach in the story are crucial to the resolution, especially on the scale of a trilogy. During the ascending action, right before the climax of the no man's land run, we are given a send off from all of the characters; this is both out of order for a conventional plotline (more fitting the descending action rather than ascending) and dimished by the implications of the ending. Ultimately, it is through the characters that we most directly identify with the story and find the meaning, the lack of resolution in this regard is especially unsatisfying.

The resolution is where the audience is supposed to find the tale's "ever after", be it happy or sad. Mass Effect 3 completely lacks any sense of "ever after".


2. Video games, like film, are a visual medium; the ending tells us what happens rather than shows us what happens. This is easy to overlook but very important. Visual mediums for story are all about what we see. Another cardinal sin of storytelling commited during the ending is the description of, and differences between, the options in the final choice are almost all conveyed through exposition. The cinematics themselves, what we actually see, are extremely similar and all the implications of the choice we make are conveyed through what the exposition had told us. This is very poor storytelling and worse still to be considered the resolution.


3. Ambiguity, lack of clarity, plot holes. Relating to the previous points, the ending is excessively ambiguous and unclear. With only unclear exposition before the choice and without sufficient data presented afterwards, many situations are unaccounted for and either lack clarity at best or appear as plot holes at worst. The crash landing of the Normandy is a clear example of this ambiguity, both in it's plausibility and implications for the fate of the crew.


4. Nothing is gained by breaking convention and attempting to make the ending enigmatic or profound. Assuming this was the writers' goal, this is another failing. Some believe, myself included, that the writers' tried to use the jarring impact of an unconventional, imperfect ending to hammer home a message or theme (presumably: pre-destination, the uncontrollable nature of fate, and the individual's limited ability to impact the world). This, however, comes at the cost of the story and the audience's pleasure, a cost that is far too high for the nature of storytelling.


5. The resurgence and emphasis on The Illusive Man during the resolution as well as the lack of interaction with the Reapers and, more specifically, Harbinger,  detracts from the Reapers as the antagonist. A lot of people expected a "boss fight" of sorts or a closing discussion with Harbinger at the end. This is a perfectly understandable and legitimate expectation. During the climax, we are almost defeated by Harbinger, the avatar for the Reapers as antagonist, however, during the resolution, it is the indoctrinated Illusive Man that takes takes center stage. Though he unwittingly is an assisting force for the Reapers, he is not directly representative of them, merely their influence. TIM's role is more fitting that of an obstacle to be overcome during the rising action.

The prominance of The Illusive Man as the final foe to be overcome detracts from the overall threat and importance of the true antagonist, the Reapers.




6. Shepherd is not a tragic hero. A common debate I see is between people who think there should be a happy ending and people who think such an ending would be out of place or impossible, sometimes refering to Shepherd as "tragic". The simple fact is, Shepherd has no tragic flaw nor does he make a tragic mistake; had such a tragic characteristic existed, it could be a foregone conclusion he would die. Overcoming the Reapers may be an impossible task, but the impossible is
routinely overcome in the Mass Effect trilogy and other epics. As is, there is nothing in the story that would railroad Shepherd towards an inevitable demise, the difficulty of his task makes his death likely, but there's nothing that should remove the possibility of a happy ending. This may be why many people want a "happy" or "brighter" ending, there's no setup nor payoff to Shepherd's death and without those it may feel cheap; storytelling is all about setup and payoff.

For an example of a good tragic hero, look no farther than Mordin Solus. His tragic mistake was the creation of the genophage. When a desperate need for krogan intervention arose and the genophage was the reason they refused, Mordin fulfilled his tragic role by sacrificing and redeeming himself. There's a big setup for the genophage throughout the series and Mordin's involvement is setup in the second game as a huge internal conflict for him. In three, this all pays off beautifully with either his redemption or brutal murder at Shepherd's hands before he can succeed. This is proper execution for a tragic character. From what I've seen, this is one of the most beloved and well-received storylines in the game; compare that to the ending's reception.


These points were written as a stream of conscious, I'm sure there are plenty of things I've missed or didn't feel like going in depth about, but I think those are some of the most important ones.


C. As I was writing this I read the Final Hours thread containing comments from Mac Walters and Casey Hudson as well as Walters' scribbled notes for the ending. Honestly I was taken aback.

Judging the content Hudson cut based on his feel for "the moment", I'd say his feel for emotional beats and his judgement of what was expendable for story economy was atrocious. The first Mass Effect was inundated at times with exposition and had very poor economy, this ending, on the other hand, is something of an opposite with not nearly enough information.

Walters' notes scrawled across loose leaf disappointed me. The ideas are clearly not fleshed out at all, strictly drawing board material, the execution we see in game is indicative of that. " Lots of speculation from everyone" is somewhat repulsive, as if providing an unclear, poorly planned ending that leaves your audience unsatisfied and grasping at straws for answers is somehow good storytelling. It gives me the inclination that the ending really was just for publicity.

I hope it continues to backfire.

Anyway, I'm off. Any interest or questions or if you want to pick my brain about storytelling, we'll call this a work in progress.


Updated: point 6

[Astrogenesis]

Rather than post about the endings as most have before me, I will address somthing else.

The Journal.

Problem 1.
When ever I open the Journal, the highlighted entry is always close to the bottom, and all the current stuff is at the top.
In theory, all the full completed entries should move in to a secondary folder, much like the Codex has two folders.

On top of this, there should be a Primary Journal entries folder and a Side Quest Journal entries folder, for less clogging.

Problem 2.
The Journal entries are very bland and uninformative. Take for example the 'fetch' quests.
An entry for one of these is somthing like;
"The Volus on the Citadel wants a certain special item. Find it and bring it back to him."
Where as it should sound like this;
"The Volus on the Citadel wants a certain special item. Try searching the X system, in the Y cluster. Find it and bring it back to him."

I had to constantly refer back to the guide to complete all of these, which is fine for me because I have it.
But the Official Guide should not be required in order to complete the game.

One more thing, the Neutral Diologue option.
When playing as a paragon male-shep, I just wanted to be friendly and not be a jerk to my crew.
However, when talking to Kaiden, the paragon choice should be replaced with the "Come on to him" option, because unless I act like an douche to him, he falls in love with me.

Also some of the abreviations are a little confusing, I have one in perticular.
When EDI asks me if she should take Jeff to go see a show about a guy who hangs himself, my imediate answer to that is the "I don't think that is a good idea" option, thinking that a show as grim as that was not the best idea for a date.
However, the real meaning behind that abreviation was more "Call the relationship off."
I had to Reload back to the begining of the citadel visit to correct this.
Please make them more obvious as to what Shepard is about to say.

Thanks:D

Modifié par Astrogenesis, 17 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[Remington]

Just because Clint Mansell made the Soundtrack I do not need to  write such a depressive Requiem for a Dream ending for such a great series. It is the end of the Citadel and the whole galactic community after blowing up the Relays I really hate most. The Citadel destroyed, the symbol of galactic community, the thing my paragon character has always been fighting for... destroyed? That really depressed me. It leaves me in a state thinking that none of my decisions really mattered. There is no hope for any one.

So my recommendation (a bit more organised)


- CLEAN UP AND EXTEND THE ENDING, or just give me an explanation. Even a scrolltext to some of the key characters would be enough to make a sense out of it. 

It does not make sense after the last scene with Anderson. The end is just a collection of fragments that do not fit together. Why is Shepards surviving in the destroy option? Why is the Citadel not destroyed in the Control Ending? Why is every Squadmate suddenly aboard the Normandy? Why does she crash on a lonely Planet? What about the Stargazer scene?

The first time I saw that, I was just like: "After this brilliant series... are you guys serious? Can't you see that this does not make ANY sense?

Modifié par Remington, 17 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[esideras]

I love the indoctrination theory, It's been eating away at me this past week. It's really annyoing having such a good and viable ending here and it was never used.
I wanted an ending that gives closure, it can still be bitter-sweet I don't mind that. The ending in MGS4 was bitter-sweet but it gave us closure and we all felt satisfied.

We have the climax in London and then it just abruptly ends and the main antagonist(s) is/are overshadowed by something completely new.
All our actions feel completely useless in the end as we don't really get and alternative. I hope I'm not being to vague here.

//Hold the line

[bas_kon]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

I think I need to clarify myself. For the past few weeks, I've been collecting feedback. I have excel sheets, word documents, quotes, graphs, you name it.

In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.

Saying "this blows" helps no one. Saying, "I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C" is what I'm looking for. Channel your frustration into something positive (such as the RetakeME3 movement - constructive, organized thoughts).

Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.

I'd like the Indoctrination theory to be true, that said:

1- The endings are the same in what's important for most players (Shepard, LIs and crew), I'd like to have different options for different playthroughs (its's a game not a movie, it doesn't have to end always bad, and happy ending fit if done well and in an inspiring manner), maybe:
    - Happy (best): He stays with his LI and surviving friends and help rebuild what was lost, i don't know, a message of hope not desperation and loneliness. (High EMS)
    - Bitter-sweet (normal): Shepard gets the chance to save his LI and the other crew member in his squad, but the ones in the Normandy and some of the others die trying to save them or buying them time. (Medium EMS)
    - Sad (bad): The LI dies in Shepard's arms after saving him from death, with an emotive inspiring dialog. (Low EMS)
    - Sacrifice (Alternative to normal and bad): Shepard tells everyone to leave and sacrifices himself to ensure a future for the others. (Low-Medium EMS)

Every ending option should be influenced/determined, by EMS, reputation and/or choices through the game, not the god-child out of the blue telling you to choose which color you want to see before you die and are betrayed by everyone you ever cared about.

2- Character consistency for Joker, LI and the others, They would never abandon the fight and Shep even less, since it has been stated several times in all three games, they would follow him to hell even if it killed them.

3- No more personal story cliffhangers, characters that have being evolving for five years don't deserve a cliffhanger closure (cliffhanger =/= closure), not the crew, not the LI and of course not Shepard. Universe fate could be a mistery but giving a message that with hard work there's still hope.

Lastly, even if Shepard gets his "kind of happy and hopeful/inspiring" ending with his LI, it will not matter story-wise for other games, since as it was stated that future ME games would be placed in the past or the far distant future. But players such as me, would like to have the chance to work for different endings (happy among them).

[El-Kelebrin]

I just want you to continue ME franchise, new trilogy maybe? But make it a sequel not a prequel because uploading saves is one of the best issues in your games. And make it quick