I apologize for how long this is, but you want details, and details I shall provide.
Bioware, I wish to say first and foremost that you guys have been my favorite game company for years now. Jade Empire and Mass Effect 2 are in my top 3 games (with ME2 holding the number 1 spot). Saying that, I'm sure that you can see I was looking forward to Mass Effect 3. I pre-ordered a Collector's Edition to celebrate the conclusion to my favorite game series of all time. I played it and I fell in love. I had heard that the endings were lame, but I couldn't see how. The game was perfectly paced in terms of story telling. Even in the end talking to Anderson and TIM felt right. Then I met God-Child. Now I see why people are mad.
1) The lack of choice. I think this is everyone's complaint. We feel as though our Sheps should have been able to make a different choice. I love the fan ending where you stand in defiance of the God-Child. For years, we've been hearing promises that what we chose mattered. That all of the choices would culminate in one grand sweeping finale. We didn't get that. We got Commander Shepard acting different than s/he has been established to act regardless of play style. Renegade Shep would have forced the Child to only target the Reapers while Paragon Shep wouldn't have done something that resulted in playing God. And that's what it is in the end. Shep is taking the choices out of the other species' hands.
2) The lack of closure. I could live with the ending. I really could. I can't live with an ending that has absolutely no closure. I went into this game knowing that there was a good possibility of the Commander dying. I hoped there was an ending where s/he lived, but I knew that it was unlikely. What I wasn't expecting though was how there wasn't any sort of reaction being shown. None of the armies reacted to Shepard's death. No squad mates were shown. You die, you see the mass relays getting blown up, and you see the Normandy crash land on a planet. This brings me to:
3) Plot holes. This is another huge one for me. Why is Joker running from the fight? How did my squad end up back on the Normandy? WHY WAS JOKER RUNNING? What's going to happen to the huge armada you've gathered on Earth? They can't ever go home thanks to the Mass Relays being destroyed.
Here are some things I request you look over. They articulate my feelings much better than I do:
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
And please try to stop people calling us entitled and whiny. It discourages people like me who love the series and just want to see it be better from giving feedback. I've invested over 100 hours with each of my characters. I've beaten ME1 twice, ME2 four times, and I hoped to beat ME3 four times as well. I've spent over $200 on Mass Effect games and related DLC. This isn't like buying a $10 dollar ticket to a movie. I wouldn't care as much. This hurts so much worse. The ending was the exact opposite of what was promised. I just don't know what more I should say. I'm hurt, Bioware. I feel cheated and betrayed. I've always held you guys to a higher standard than other game companies, and I've personally never been let down. Until now. Please don't let the endings stand like this. Recognize the error and fix it. We are not "some passionate fans" as Casey Hudson stated in his announcement. We are the vast majority of the people who have beaten this game. I mean, in less than a month, we've raised over $40,000 for charity. I treat you with respect, please do the same for us. Thank you very much.
ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
Débuté par
RaenImrahl
, mars 17 2012 03:00
Retour en haut
#1452
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:51
sammcl
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Here's my suggested changes:
The Ending: There was a perfectly good end point right before everything went bonkers. Shepard and Anderson sitting side by side, Anderson says "I'm proud of you" and dies. Cut to a scene of the crucible firing some kind of Reaper Killing EMP blast through all the mass relays and shots of reapers deactivating on occupied planets. THE END
That's perfect, hits all the right emotional notes and avoids introducing new themes that don't match everything else in the game. You then tie prior choices and effective military strength to the extent of damage and casualties. Post credits epilogue showing people starting to pick up the pieces and recover if you like.
The Crucible: This bothered me as soon as it was presented, not necessarily the concept of a miracle weapon itsself but its coincidental discovery as the reapers arrive. This would have been better if it had been introduced in ME2 and construction had begun or maybe if it was something small the protheans had built into the citadel but did not complete and you needed to retrieve the necessary components...
Emotional Manipulation: This is another thing that bothered me, trying to make us sad over the death of an anonymous boy, just because it's a kid. I'm not against giving Shepard some emotional attachment to the people he left on Earth but it should have been done with an established character or as a direct consequence of Shepard's actions. There is no way Shepard could have saved that kid, no reason to feel guilty. This was an obvious and failed attempt at emotional manipulation and was really disappointing.
That's all, I'm extremely satisfied with everything else the game offered, I would have preferred that the ME2 characters be recruitable but their appearances were all handled really well. So while I'm disappointed I didn't get more time with them, they weren't mishandled to the detriment of the story. It's an amazing game, and an amazing series, my favourite in the past 15 years. Just a shame it went out on a sour note when the right ending was the preceding scene.
The Ending: There was a perfectly good end point right before everything went bonkers. Shepard and Anderson sitting side by side, Anderson says "I'm proud of you" and dies. Cut to a scene of the crucible firing some kind of Reaper Killing EMP blast through all the mass relays and shots of reapers deactivating on occupied planets. THE END
That's perfect, hits all the right emotional notes and avoids introducing new themes that don't match everything else in the game. You then tie prior choices and effective military strength to the extent of damage and casualties. Post credits epilogue showing people starting to pick up the pieces and recover if you like.
The Crucible: This bothered me as soon as it was presented, not necessarily the concept of a miracle weapon itsself but its coincidental discovery as the reapers arrive. This would have been better if it had been introduced in ME2 and construction had begun or maybe if it was something small the protheans had built into the citadel but did not complete and you needed to retrieve the necessary components...
Emotional Manipulation: This is another thing that bothered me, trying to make us sad over the death of an anonymous boy, just because it's a kid. I'm not against giving Shepard some emotional attachment to the people he left on Earth but it should have been done with an established character or as a direct consequence of Shepard's actions. There is no way Shepard could have saved that kid, no reason to feel guilty. This was an obvious and failed attempt at emotional manipulation and was really disappointing.
That's all, I'm extremely satisfied with everything else the game offered, I would have preferred that the ME2 characters be recruitable but their appearances were all handled really well. So while I'm disappointed I didn't get more time with them, they weren't mishandled to the detriment of the story. It's an amazing game, and an amazing series, my favourite in the past 15 years. Just a shame it went out on a sour note when the right ending was the preceding scene.
#1453
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:53
Joy Sauce
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http://pixelatedgeek.com/2012/03/mass-effect-iii-snatching-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/
It may have been posted already, but this article is great, definitly give it a read.
It may have been posted already, but this article is great, definitly give it a read.
Modifié par Joy Sauce, 17 mars 2012 - 01:53 .
#1454
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:53
MajorBaxter17
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Bravo for trying something unique with the endings, but it just hasn't worked IMO, I could live with the indoctrination theory if executed properly but personally I'd keep it simple.
Everything up untill the magic elevator to the catalyst's crib is near perfect, remove that whole segment, reinstate the full Anderson conversation, Shep struggles to the terminal as Hackett hails him/her then have the crucible do what it was built up to do, destroy/weaken the Reapers.
Massive cut scene/ montage of ground and space battles coming to a conclusion involving the surviving races/characters of current playthrough. EMS determines casualties!
Shep finally let's go seeing the victory happening from the best view in the house. ( Highest EMS or maybe insanity completion has Shep survive)
Epilogue showing surviving races and characters starting the rebuilding process on all major planets, memorials for the lost etc etc.
EMS under a certain amount the crucible does nothing, the cycle continues, destruction cutscene showing the fall of the galaxy. Post credit sequence showing some other species finding Liara's time capsule many years later.
It's not perfect but it has some closure, it's not all bunnies and rainbows but there is still hope, some feeling of accomplishment. There still maybe questions regarding some issues, the citadel survivors, the ground team at Harbinger, how the crucible works etc they could be addressed somehow, and then of course the purpose of the reapers, their origin, but our mission was to stop them, not understand them. Personally I'm happy letting some things be as long as most other things make some kind of sense!
Everything up untill the magic elevator to the catalyst's crib is near perfect, remove that whole segment, reinstate the full Anderson conversation, Shep struggles to the terminal as Hackett hails him/her then have the crucible do what it was built up to do, destroy/weaken the Reapers.
Massive cut scene/ montage of ground and space battles coming to a conclusion involving the surviving races/characters of current playthrough. EMS determines casualties!
Shep finally let's go seeing the victory happening from the best view in the house. ( Highest EMS or maybe insanity completion has Shep survive)
Epilogue showing surviving races and characters starting the rebuilding process on all major planets, memorials for the lost etc etc.
EMS under a certain amount the crucible does nothing, the cycle continues, destruction cutscene showing the fall of the galaxy. Post credit sequence showing some other species finding Liara's time capsule many years later.
It's not perfect but it has some closure, it's not all bunnies and rainbows but there is still hope, some feeling of accomplishment. There still maybe questions regarding some issues, the citadel survivors, the ground team at Harbinger, how the crucible works etc they could be addressed somehow, and then of course the purpose of the reapers, their origin, but our mission was to stop them, not understand them. Personally I'm happy letting some things be as long as most other things make some kind of sense!
#1455
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:53
Buddhess75
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First of all, thank you for a great game series. It was truly a joy to play, from 1 through 2 and 3. The third installments on the side conversations are priceless, the world in the third one is described to the player not just by excellent characterization but also narrative, which gives the game that extra edge that would have made it Game of the Year.
However...
I feel that a good ending to an epic story is necessary, otherwise you get what you have here on the forums, people feeling cheated. As I said, the game is extraordinary; however the last 5 minutes completely turn this upside down. A few points that have been made by others before me, but I feel its important to put them down as well to strengthen the emphasis of the importance of these complaints.
Let me also point out, that I am completely fine with a dark ending, Shepard dying, the galaxy dying, but… at the moment, it feels like the ending is sort of cut off. It feels like a choke point of the story, rather than an ending. I also want to point out that these comments are putting the fact aside that the ending of Deus Ex by Eidos is way too similar to what is presented to us.
Questions
that rise up after the ending:
1. Why is the Catalyst in the form of the child Shepard sees in her dreams/saw die at the beginning? How did the Catalyst know to take this form?
2. Why are there only 3 choices, when we were clearly told that the ending won’t be an ABC kind thing.
3. Why are the colors reversed? Renegade red for destroying the reapers, Paragon Blue for controlling. I felt it should be the other way around.
4. Why is Shepard not being her/himself? The whole story is about destroying the reapers, and saving Earth, and Shepard, the bulldog he/she is, would put up more of an argument rather than accepting what the Catalyst says.
5. Why is the Normandy running away and has at least one of my squad mates and love interest onboard (depending on ending)?
All in all, I got away with the feeling of disappointment, and I am pretty sure this was not the intentions of the creators. There are more questions raised then answered. There is no sense of closure at all. So what am I looking for?
A) Since this is the ending of the story, I feel it needs more closure. An epilogue of some kind depending on which
way we choose to end the reaper invasion.
I think most people would want to know what happened to the companions, what happened on Tuchanka, what happened to the Normandy, did the mass relays ever got rebuild etc etc, that sort of thing. And I think this is where it should show how the galaxy was effected by the choices we made.
Thank you again for a great game and I hope Bioware will listen to our heartaches, and there can be a compromise which will make both sides happy and satisfied.
However...
I feel that a good ending to an epic story is necessary, otherwise you get what you have here on the forums, people feeling cheated. As I said, the game is extraordinary; however the last 5 minutes completely turn this upside down. A few points that have been made by others before me, but I feel its important to put them down as well to strengthen the emphasis of the importance of these complaints.
Let me also point out, that I am completely fine with a dark ending, Shepard dying, the galaxy dying, but… at the moment, it feels like the ending is sort of cut off. It feels like a choke point of the story, rather than an ending. I also want to point out that these comments are putting the fact aside that the ending of Deus Ex by Eidos is way too similar to what is presented to us.
Questions
that rise up after the ending:
1. Why is the Catalyst in the form of the child Shepard sees in her dreams/saw die at the beginning? How did the Catalyst know to take this form?
2. Why are there only 3 choices, when we were clearly told that the ending won’t be an ABC kind thing.
3. Why are the colors reversed? Renegade red for destroying the reapers, Paragon Blue for controlling. I felt it should be the other way around.
4. Why is Shepard not being her/himself? The whole story is about destroying the reapers, and saving Earth, and Shepard, the bulldog he/she is, would put up more of an argument rather than accepting what the Catalyst says.
5. Why is the Normandy running away and has at least one of my squad mates and love interest onboard (depending on ending)?
All in all, I got away with the feeling of disappointment, and I am pretty sure this was not the intentions of the creators. There are more questions raised then answered. There is no sense of closure at all. So what am I looking for?
A) Since this is the ending of the story, I feel it needs more closure. An epilogue of some kind depending on which
way we choose to end the reaper invasion.
I think most people would want to know what happened to the companions, what happened on Tuchanka, what happened to the Normandy, did the mass relays ever got rebuild etc etc, that sort of thing. And I think this is where it should show how the galaxy was effected by the choices we made.Thank you again for a great game and I hope Bioware will listen to our heartaches, and there can be a compromise which will make both sides happy and satisfied.
Modifié par Buddhess75, 17 mars 2012 - 01:56 .
#1456
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:54
Mazzo0279
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1. The end needs to be fixed to one that makes sence to "whole story arc". Happy/bitteraweet dosnt matter but we where promised that our diiferent playstyles throu all 3 games whould have a HUGE impact on the end and quite frankly the decisions we made dosent mean squat. Not even the BIG endgame ones like killing/saving council destroying/keeping collector base made any impact on the end couse it all came down to EMS numbers.
2.. the end needs to be fixed so it dosnt go againt established lore already given in the series including and up to most of mass effect 3. ergo fill those plotholes that you managed to create in the last 5 MINUTES (honestly feels like the end was writen by someone not farmiliar with the franchise but that LOVED the end of the matrix)
3. Repay Effort, think more than half was hoping to see more of the battle for earth with cutscenes off our former squadmates the squadmates not joining final push and all the races we managed (or didnt) to unite againts the reaper threat
4. Climax, the battle for earth was a big dissapointment no emotional missions with dramatic conclussions just a straight shooting gallery just felt lackluster compared to the other missions in the game.
5. Fix the little things like for instance let us finaly se quiran without mask instead of a photoshoped stockphoto.
2.. the end needs to be fixed so it dosnt go againt established lore already given in the series including and up to most of mass effect 3. ergo fill those plotholes that you managed to create in the last 5 MINUTES (honestly feels like the end was writen by someone not farmiliar with the franchise but that LOVED the end of the matrix)
3. Repay Effort, think more than half was hoping to see more of the battle for earth with cutscenes off our former squadmates the squadmates not joining final push and all the races we managed (or didnt) to unite againts the reaper threat
4. Climax, the battle for earth was a big dissapointment no emotional missions with dramatic conclussions just a straight shooting gallery just felt lackluster compared to the other missions in the game.
5. Fix the little things like for instance let us finaly se quiran without mask instead of a photoshoped stockphoto.
Modifié par Mazzo0279, 17 mars 2012 - 01:57 .
#1457
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:55
TheEnd430
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First, I'll point out that I love the game. It was an excellent experience. However, like many other, I am disappointed by the ending. I won't bother typing up an in depth statement about what I feel the ending should be like because it's been pretty well covered by others. I accept the current ending but new, alternate, endings that provide more choice, variety, and closure would greatly increase the experience of the game.
Aside from that I'll note that there's one mechanic that I greatly miss, and that's the ability to find hidden missions by scanning planets. I was lead to believe that obtaining war assets would include having to physically rescue people from threats, not just launch a probe at them. Now I'm not saying every single one of them needs a mission, that'd just get tedious. But four or five would be nice.
Finally, please add a way to obtain galactic readiness in single player or remove the decay. I love the multiplayer but I have a big concern. Months or years down the road there likely won't be a huge online community, that means galactic readiness will be near impossible to gain. I'd like to see something correct this.
Thank you for doing this. I hope you folks fix some of the issues popping up.
Aside from that I'll note that there's one mechanic that I greatly miss, and that's the ability to find hidden missions by scanning planets. I was lead to believe that obtaining war assets would include having to physically rescue people from threats, not just launch a probe at them. Now I'm not saying every single one of them needs a mission, that'd just get tedious. But four or five would be nice.
Finally, please add a way to obtain galactic readiness in single player or remove the decay. I love the multiplayer but I have a big concern. Months or years down the road there likely won't be a huge online community, that means galactic readiness will be near impossible to gain. I'd like to see something correct this.
Thank you for doing this. I hope you folks fix some of the issues popping up.
#1458
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:55
Avenger09
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I wish for the ending to be like the system used in ME2 were, if you did not have the right upgrade, or in this case "War Assets" or Loyalty "Galactic Readiness" then it would change for the better or worse.
For instants if you had requited to Quarians at the cost of the Geth then they would either take heavy losses and pull or back but if you had enough War Assets they would hold out long enough to destroy a few Reapers, and if you had the Geth with you they would support the Quarians thus minimizing there losses.
Also I would love to have an ending that had more meaning that simply deciding what colour the bulb was, one that would make the sacrifices of Mordin, Thane, and Legion, mean something as well as being worthy of such an fantastic series. As for the ending we got I would like for it to have turned out to be something like this:
That way you could still use it without causing massive amounts of aggro from your fans. look at this if you what a full view at what I feel and did not cover in this post.
Thank you for this opportunity to voice my only concern for an otherwise flawless game.
For instants if you had requited to Quarians at the cost of the Geth then they would either take heavy losses and pull or back but if you had enough War Assets they would hold out long enough to destroy a few Reapers, and if you had the Geth with you they would support the Quarians thus minimizing there losses.
Also I would love to have an ending that had more meaning that simply deciding what colour the bulb was, one that would make the sacrifices of Mordin, Thane, and Legion, mean something as well as being worthy of such an fantastic series. As for the ending we got I would like for it to have turned out to be something like this:
That way you could still use it without causing massive amounts of aggro from your fans. look at this if you what a full view at what I feel and did not cover in this post.
Thank you for this opportunity to voice my only concern for an otherwise flawless game.
#1459
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:56
clennon8
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After investing a few thousand hours (playing/reading/writing) in this series over the last 5 years, I deserve some clarity at the end. This isn't an art house movie. It never was. So why try to turn it into one in the last 5 minutes?
So how to fix it? Well, indoctrination has to be involved somehow, imo. Otherwise there's about a million red herrings in the game, and that's simply not playing fair.
Also... I'm not afraid to say it. I want a happy ending or three mixed in there. Make it dependent on the war assets or whatever, but make it possible to see my Shep walk off into the sunset. Sure, a sunset over Reaper-blasted terrain, but still a sunset. I deserve that. Shepard isn't just some character in a book or a movie. Shepard is me. That's what the RPG experience is all about.
So how to fix it? Well, indoctrination has to be involved somehow, imo. Otherwise there's about a million red herrings in the game, and that's simply not playing fair.
Also... I'm not afraid to say it. I want a happy ending or three mixed in there. Make it dependent on the war assets or whatever, but make it possible to see my Shep walk off into the sunset. Sure, a sunset over Reaper-blasted terrain, but still a sunset. I deserve that. Shepard isn't just some character in a book or a movie. Shepard is me. That's what the RPG experience is all about.
Modifié par clennon8, 17 mars 2012 - 02:04 .
#1460
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:56
Shepenwepet
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My only real issue (I'm not even bothering with the endings, pretty much every single post here has) is the Thane situation. I'm not asking for space magic, I'm not asking for a complete rewrite in which he lives. But the fact that nobody, not even a romanced Shepard, mentioned/remembered him after he died... really? And no codex entry? It was like he never existed. For all the work that went into creating his character, to just sweep him under the rug like that isn't right. I'm aware that one of the devs even admitted to dropping the ball on Thane, so at least the problem is acknowledged. Whether or not it'll be fixed.... I don't know.
The Thane death scene was fine, until I realized that every Shepard got the exact same thing. I had wondered why my Shepard was strangely unmoved by the fact that her LI was dying right in front of her...but it was pretty much a copy-pasted scene from a non-romanced Shepard. Also, no reaction from Shepard when Thane gets stabbed? I had a bigger reaction than my Shepard.
I'm aware there was a change in writers when it comes to Thane, but it seems to me with all the hints of a cure dropped back in ME2, there was at least an intention to keep him around longer. If not... that was low. Really low.
The Thane death scene was fine, until I realized that every Shepard got the exact same thing. I had wondered why my Shepard was strangely unmoved by the fact that her LI was dying right in front of her...but it was pretty much a copy-pasted scene from a non-romanced Shepard. Also, no reaction from Shepard when Thane gets stabbed? I had a bigger reaction than my Shepard.
I'm aware there was a change in writers when it comes to Thane, but it seems to me with all the hints of a cure dropped back in ME2, there was at least an intention to keep him around longer. If not... that was low. Really low.
#1461
Guest_Prince_Valiant_*
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:57
Guest_Prince_Valiant_*
Guest_Prince_Valiant_*
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For myself I'm ready to compromise. I could live with the sad endings, if I could get one single option for my personal Shepard to live happily ever after with his LI and perhaps the Squadmates. But if you can give me more, Bioware, I would take it with pleasure of course. 
#1462
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:59
RedWolf08
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- 13 messages
Let me begin by saying, up until the ending, I loved the game. The deaths of Mordin, Thane and Legion were very well done and brought tears to my eyes. My heart sank when I "failed" Thessia. I was utterly disgusted at what happened on Horizon. *disgusted in that someone would do such a thing* I believe parts like that were very well done. However, when it came to the end, I was extremely disappointed.
1) It seemed like our EMS didn't matter. All of the little things we did, and especially the BIG things we did *uniting the geth and Quarians* had no impact.
2) A, B, C endings...I was under the impression that's not what we'd get, but that's pretty much exactly what we got.
3) Why, oh why, did my team "abandon" me? The 2 people with me, LI included, just up and teleported to the Normandy, not even knowing whether I was alive or dead?
4) Joker fleeing the area with my crew? I just don't see that.
5) No idea what happened to the enormous fleet I convinced to help us fight, much less the people closest to me.
6) According to your own lore, blowing up a relay destroys everything within that system. So basically I just annhilated both earth and all the core planets? Unless of course I missed something?
What I want to see is REAL closure to such a fantastic voyage.
1) I want to know why my crew is no longer on Earth searching for proof of my death, or to find me alive.
2) I want to see all those war assets I gathered actually doing something as well as see both former and unused squadmates taking back the streets of London as they push forward. I want the war assets to make a difference.
3) I want to know why Joker was fleeing the area with my crew and my LI
4) i want to know what happens to my former crew after the Reapers are defeated as well as what happens to the various fleets that risked their lives to join in the battle. What happened to Miranda after she and her sister were reunited? What happened between the krogan and the turians/salarians if Wrex isn't able to get back to Tuchanka to hold back the remaining clans from going to war with the creators of the genophage? Etc.
5) I want to know why the destruction option has to be so harsh. I brought peace to the quarians and geth, and had joker fall in love with Edi, and now I'm being forced to sacrifice them if I choose the destroy ending *which seems is the only way, currently, to see your shep "live"? No wonder synthetic lifeforms *reapers* want to destroy organics if we are so willing to throw them *geth* away after they joined us in our battle to save the galaxy.
I'm not asking for rainbows and ponies here. I knew that my shep might have to sacrifice herself in order to bring peace to the galaxy. All I really want is closure as to what happened to everyone else, and to know that I didn't just screw everyone by destroying the mass relays and leaving the other fleets to starve and perish. I would LOVE one, just ONE ending, in which my shep lives happily ever after with her LI, but if that can't/won't happen, then at least give me the satisfaction of knowing that my sacrifice wasn't for nothing. That my hardwork and that of my team helped to save the galaxy from the reapers, not to plunge the entire universe in to darkness with the destruction of the relays *and possibly destroying the worlds within the relay system.
1) It seemed like our EMS didn't matter. All of the little things we did, and especially the BIG things we did *uniting the geth and Quarians* had no impact.
2) A, B, C endings...I was under the impression that's not what we'd get, but that's pretty much exactly what we got.
3) Why, oh why, did my team "abandon" me? The 2 people with me, LI included, just up and teleported to the Normandy, not even knowing whether I was alive or dead?
4) Joker fleeing the area with my crew? I just don't see that.
5) No idea what happened to the enormous fleet I convinced to help us fight, much less the people closest to me.
6) According to your own lore, blowing up a relay destroys everything within that system. So basically I just annhilated both earth and all the core planets? Unless of course I missed something?
What I want to see is REAL closure to such a fantastic voyage.
1) I want to know why my crew is no longer on Earth searching for proof of my death, or to find me alive.
2) I want to see all those war assets I gathered actually doing something as well as see both former and unused squadmates taking back the streets of London as they push forward. I want the war assets to make a difference.
3) I want to know why Joker was fleeing the area with my crew and my LI
4) i want to know what happens to my former crew after the Reapers are defeated as well as what happens to the various fleets that risked their lives to join in the battle. What happened to Miranda after she and her sister were reunited? What happened between the krogan and the turians/salarians if Wrex isn't able to get back to Tuchanka to hold back the remaining clans from going to war with the creators of the genophage? Etc.
5) I want to know why the destruction option has to be so harsh. I brought peace to the quarians and geth, and had joker fall in love with Edi, and now I'm being forced to sacrifice them if I choose the destroy ending *which seems is the only way, currently, to see your shep "live"? No wonder synthetic lifeforms *reapers* want to destroy organics if we are so willing to throw them *geth* away after they joined us in our battle to save the galaxy.
I'm not asking for rainbows and ponies here. I knew that my shep might have to sacrifice herself in order to bring peace to the galaxy. All I really want is closure as to what happened to everyone else, and to know that I didn't just screw everyone by destroying the mass relays and leaving the other fleets to starve and perish. I would LOVE one, just ONE ending, in which my shep lives happily ever after with her LI, but if that can't/won't happen, then at least give me the satisfaction of knowing that my sacrifice wasn't for nothing. That my hardwork and that of my team helped to save the galaxy from the reapers, not to plunge the entire universe in to darkness with the destruction of the relays *and possibly destroying the worlds within the relay system.
#1463
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:59
kunzite
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Avenger09 wrote...
For instants if you had requited to Quarians at the cost of the Geth then they would either take heavy losses and pull or back but if you had enough War Assets they would hold out long enough to destroy a few Reapers, and if you had the Geth with you they would support the Quarians thus minimizing there losses.
It would be really nice, if they did more cutscene with the space battle, having a nearly crippled Quarian ship just about to be destroyed by a larger Reaper vessel....and having a Geth ship swoop in for the save. That, right there, would show that the Geth truly can forgive and work in peace with the Quarians!
#1464
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:59
paynesgrey
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RaenImrahl wrote...
Bioware's Jessica Merizan has made a request of the community...Jessica Merizan wrote...
I think I need to clarify myself. For the past few weeks, I've been collecting feedback. I have excel sheets, word documents, quotes, graphs, you name it.
In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.
Saying "this blows" helps no one. Saying, "I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C" is what I'm looking for. Channel your frustration into something positive (such as the RetakeME3 movement - constructive, organized thoughts).
Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.
Please use this thread to post your constructive feedback, which may include spoilers. Spam images will not be allowed, per the forum rules.
(The original, now defunct thread on the topic in this forum is located here: http://social.biowar...ndex/10093191/1)
I loved the game up until the endings, which killed it and any replay value of even ME1 & 2. But the only thing that would really be needed to "fix" it for me would be if the rumors of a free DLC called "The Truth" are actually true. That rumored DLC would pretty much settle my issues as well as elevate the ending of ME3 to the high level of quality the rest of game demonstrated.
I'm sure you're familiar with this rumored DLC, but here's what it supposedly contains, and this is what I'd consider to be "constructive feedback" on how to make many unhappy customers happy again. I'd still be irritated about the decision to handle things this way, effectively ending my ability to "finish," but I'd be able to enjoy ME1, 2, and 3 again rather than writing Bioware off.
The article's been floating around, here's a link to Crunchyroll's version:
http://www.crunchyro...riving-in-april
"The ending was half-assed because of the leak. They changed
it at the last minute so they could have more time to prepare the real
ending via DLC.
"It’s called The Truth and it’s being released in April or
May. You WILL be able to continue the story if you picked any of the
endings. Your decision during that sequence will have a big effect on
your ending of The Truth. The Truth adds two new sets of enemies, new
classes, and multiplayer maps including “Firebase Hive”, which is a
small area of the last remaining collector ship included in the DLC,
which, by the way you should definitely bring Javik the Prothean along
if you have him.
"The picture here shows some of the leaked multiplayer
classes and races. One race that isn’t shown is the Prothean Adept and
Vanguard. This DLC also enables the ability for owners of the preorder
and From Ashes DLC to find their DLC weapons in reinforcement packs.
"All that content, and this might as well be labeled an expansion pack.
"And it’s free.
"You’re welcome."
#1465
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:00
atheelogos
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Please make Miranda a squadmate. I don't see why she isn't one. Just about everything she does in the game can be done from the Normandy.
#1466
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:01
Master Shiori
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I found ME3 to be an incredibly enjoyable experience right until the part where Sovereign blows up Shep and co. After that it's just a series of inconsistencies and lack of info.
1) Liara was with me when Harbinger attacked. The rest of my ME3 squad was also somewhere in London doing lord-knows-what. How the hell did Liara not only survive Harbinger's attack when everyone else died, but also managed to get back on the Normandy?!
2) The whole Catalyst-Reapers-organics-synthetics theory was literaly showed into our faces at the last minute. There was no proper explanation of it, no chance to ask for more details before making our choices and even no chance to present a counter argument based on what we saw in ME3 and previous titles. I broker a peace between Quarians and Geth (organics and synthetics) which everyone claimed was impossible, yet I never bring that up as proof that Catalyst may be wrong? I help EDI become more human, but still buy the whole "synthetics are so unlike us, they have no use for organics nor do they care"?
3) Endings
We got 3 endings that basically come down to: "what color would you prefer for your beam?". We don't have a damn idea what choosing destruction, control or synthesis will mean for the future of the galaxy. We don't get to see the consequences of our choices. All we know is that mass relays around the galaxy go supernova which, to anyone who played Arrival DLC for ME2, is a clear sign we just committed genocide on galactic scale. Sorry, but I doubt many players want their Shepard to be remembered like that.
Did we save the civilizations and races of this galactic cycle? No idea.
Did we just do what Reapers wanted to do all along? Quite likely.
Not exactly an ending that inspires hope for the future like Casey Hudson likes to claim, unless you guys know something that isn't apparent to the rest of us.
4) Fate of our favorite squadmates
Bioware loves going on and on how characters in ME games are what people love the most. You encourage us to cosplay, write fanfiction and draw our favorite squadmates and LI's.
And yet, when it comes to providing closure to these relationships, you leave us completely in the dark.
Do we know if crew of the Normandy and our ME3 squad survived at the end?
No, because, aside from Joker and 2 other squadies, you never show them again.
Do we know what happened to ME2 characters who joined us in retaking Earth?
No, because we don't see them or hear anything about them.
Do we know whether or not the ones who crashed with Normandy on that paradise world can even survive there?
No, we don't.
You've spent years making people care about these characters and now, at the very end of the trilogy, you leave us completely in the dark about their ultimate fate.
Sorry, but that's not closure.
These are just the top problems I had with the endings. I could write you a whole essay about what is wrong, but instead I'll simply link you this article that goes into detail to explain all the problems that players like myself have with the ending for ME3.
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
It covers all the holes, ilogical moments and flaws of what is otherwise a single black mark on a brilliant game and, imo, an ultimate ME experience.
1) Liara was with me when Harbinger attacked. The rest of my ME3 squad was also somewhere in London doing lord-knows-what. How the hell did Liara not only survive Harbinger's attack when everyone else died, but also managed to get back on the Normandy?!
2) The whole Catalyst-Reapers-organics-synthetics theory was literaly showed into our faces at the last minute. There was no proper explanation of it, no chance to ask for more details before making our choices and even no chance to present a counter argument based on what we saw in ME3 and previous titles. I broker a peace between Quarians and Geth (organics and synthetics) which everyone claimed was impossible, yet I never bring that up as proof that Catalyst may be wrong? I help EDI become more human, but still buy the whole "synthetics are so unlike us, they have no use for organics nor do they care"?
3) Endings
We got 3 endings that basically come down to: "what color would you prefer for your beam?". We don't have a damn idea what choosing destruction, control or synthesis will mean for the future of the galaxy. We don't get to see the consequences of our choices. All we know is that mass relays around the galaxy go supernova which, to anyone who played Arrival DLC for ME2, is a clear sign we just committed genocide on galactic scale. Sorry, but I doubt many players want their Shepard to be remembered like that.
Did we save the civilizations and races of this galactic cycle? No idea.
Did we just do what Reapers wanted to do all along? Quite likely.
Not exactly an ending that inspires hope for the future like Casey Hudson likes to claim, unless you guys know something that isn't apparent to the rest of us.
4) Fate of our favorite squadmates
Bioware loves going on and on how characters in ME games are what people love the most. You encourage us to cosplay, write fanfiction and draw our favorite squadmates and LI's.
And yet, when it comes to providing closure to these relationships, you leave us completely in the dark.
Do we know if crew of the Normandy and our ME3 squad survived at the end?
No, because, aside from Joker and 2 other squadies, you never show them again.
Do we know what happened to ME2 characters who joined us in retaking Earth?
No, because we don't see them or hear anything about them.
Do we know whether or not the ones who crashed with Normandy on that paradise world can even survive there?
No, we don't.
You've spent years making people care about these characters and now, at the very end of the trilogy, you leave us completely in the dark about their ultimate fate.
Sorry, but that's not closure.
These are just the top problems I had with the endings. I could write you a whole essay about what is wrong, but instead I'll simply link you this article that goes into detail to explain all the problems that players like myself have with the ending for ME3.
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
It covers all the holes, ilogical moments and flaws of what is otherwise a single black mark on a brilliant game and, imo, an ultimate ME experience.
Modifié par Master Shiori, 17 mars 2012 - 02:04 .
#1467
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:02
Alexraptor1
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I want a final epic confrontation with Harbinger, thats what I expected from the beginning.
I want Harbinger to truly be the leader as the Codex and his role implies, not be just a pawn of some entity from Shepards imagination.
I want Harbinger to truly be the leader as the Codex and his role implies, not be just a pawn of some entity from Shepards imagination.
#1468
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:02
SgtSweatySac
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Evidently, Opera doesn't like this forum (since it decided to crash right in the middle of my post). Sigh......So, I'll make it short and sweet.
To sum it all up, I loved everything about Mass Effect 3, right till the last 10 minutes.
1. Amputate the Normandy/Joker/Squadmates crashing on mysterious planet thing with a fine-toothed chainsaw. The Buzz Aldrin thing was cool, but also made no sense.
2. Go with Indoctrination/Hallucination, or, if you feel really gutsy, go with it along with ACTUALLY making the choices you made across three games count for the ending, instead of the 'oh, all those choices, they only mattered for War Assets. Here, pick the color of your destruction' ending. Yes, this would take lots of coding, more recording of voices, and actual money output. But, quite frankly, expect your multiplayer DLC expansions to sell poorly if you don't.
3. I'm not asking for Shepherd to actually even live, but just some damn closure. I was so proud of the fact that I managed to get the Turians and Krogans knocking back brewskies with each other, the Geth and the Quarians rebuilding a world, and even managed to convince the Salarians to give up some help in the end. Heck, how about the fleets of Aria, the Elcor heavy-weapon platforms, the Batarians seeking vengence, even the Volus...
4. This one is just a personal preference, but an actual, rendered scene of Tali without her mask. I'm with hitler on this one:
I posted my thoughs on the game as whole elsewhere, just a copy and paste for now.
Mass Effect 3 starts out kinda half-cocked, story wise, but after the intro missions, you really start getting into affecting
intergalactic politics, who is going to help you in the end and who is going to tell you to **** off and die. The characters you've grown to appreciate across three games, and what you did with them, have impact on how the game plays out during the second and third act. Your conversations with them are all presented in a way that feels real, especially your love interest.
In the previous games, I will say that was a weak point, it was basically 'hurr durr, I like you, lets to almost nothing to acknowledge each other beyond the normal conversation for 90% of the game, then decide to screw before the suicide mission). In the third game, you have conversations with them, banter with them, like you would with someone you love in the real world. Mild flirting, downright sarcasm like they understand each other gets it, and private moments that actually play out like you're peeking in on someone else's relationship. The writing in that area improved tremendously. Even my
girlfriend, who really isn't much of a gamer, actually was laughing at some of what was being said, and I asked her why. She said "Even in your game, you're a sarcastic dick to your girlfriend" (I imported my Tali-loving character).
Yes, there is a woman that puts up with my nerdy redneck ass.
The writing improved tremendously this time around.
The combat was...different. It took some getting used to, since it is DEFINITELY more fast-paced and challenging this time around. Is it an improvement? Yes, but only just so. This is probably the closest Mass Effect came to truly emulating Gears of War gameplay. Some I liked (**** yeah, stab him right in the head with my laser-knife), but some I didn't (why am I using the same damn button to run, jump, crouch, and vault?). The variety of weaponry, along with how you can augment it,
along with your power customization, is actually perfect this time around. Just the right balance of having a choice of what variety of weapon and power to use, without it being completely unwieldy.
To sum it all up, I loved everything about Mass Effect 3, right till the last 10 minutes.
1. Amputate the Normandy/Joker/Squadmates crashing on mysterious planet thing with a fine-toothed chainsaw. The Buzz Aldrin thing was cool, but also made no sense.
2. Go with Indoctrination/Hallucination, or, if you feel really gutsy, go with it along with ACTUALLY making the choices you made across three games count for the ending, instead of the 'oh, all those choices, they only mattered for War Assets. Here, pick the color of your destruction' ending. Yes, this would take lots of coding, more recording of voices, and actual money output. But, quite frankly, expect your multiplayer DLC expansions to sell poorly if you don't.
3. I'm not asking for Shepherd to actually even live, but just some damn closure. I was so proud of the fact that I managed to get the Turians and Krogans knocking back brewskies with each other, the Geth and the Quarians rebuilding a world, and even managed to convince the Salarians to give up some help in the end. Heck, how about the fleets of Aria, the Elcor heavy-weapon platforms, the Batarians seeking vengence, even the Volus...
4. This one is just a personal preference, but an actual, rendered scene of Tali without her mask. I'm with hitler on this one:
I posted my thoughs on the game as whole elsewhere, just a copy and paste for now.
Mass Effect 3 starts out kinda half-cocked, story wise, but after the intro missions, you really start getting into affecting
intergalactic politics, who is going to help you in the end and who is going to tell you to **** off and die. The characters you've grown to appreciate across three games, and what you did with them, have impact on how the game plays out during the second and third act. Your conversations with them are all presented in a way that feels real, especially your love interest.
In the previous games, I will say that was a weak point, it was basically 'hurr durr, I like you, lets to almost nothing to acknowledge each other beyond the normal conversation for 90% of the game, then decide to screw before the suicide mission). In the third game, you have conversations with them, banter with them, like you would with someone you love in the real world. Mild flirting, downright sarcasm like they understand each other gets it, and private moments that actually play out like you're peeking in on someone else's relationship. The writing in that area improved tremendously. Even my
girlfriend, who really isn't much of a gamer, actually was laughing at some of what was being said, and I asked her why. She said "Even in your game, you're a sarcastic dick to your girlfriend" (I imported my Tali-loving character).
Yes, there is a woman that puts up with my nerdy redneck ass.
The writing improved tremendously this time around.
The combat was...different. It took some getting used to, since it is DEFINITELY more fast-paced and challenging this time around. Is it an improvement? Yes, but only just so. This is probably the closest Mass Effect came to truly emulating Gears of War gameplay. Some I liked (**** yeah, stab him right in the head with my laser-knife), but some I didn't (why am I using the same damn button to run, jump, crouch, and vault?). The variety of weaponry, along with how you can augment it,
along with your power customization, is actually perfect this time around. Just the right balance of having a choice of what variety of weapon and power to use, without it being completely unwieldy.
Modifié par SgtSweatySac, 17 mars 2012 - 02:13 .
#1469
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:03
garf
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RiotLaFontaine wrote...
I won't sit here and tell you what to do or what you should do. Instead, I'll provide aspects of the current ending that should be considered. I would recommend viewing this not as an opportunity to revise or change the ending, but as a method to fulfill unused potential and create a bold new endgame experience. The more depth and choice you provide, and the more transparent you are about this process, I think the more fans will be willing to work alongside of you.
Here are the suggestions:
1. The original idea, as far as I understand, was to create an end to Shepard's trilogy, which involves providing the player closure. The current ending is, in my eyes, thematically fine within the scope of ME3, but not the scope of the trilogy itself. The sense of ambiguity and speculation works well in the context of ME3, but as a result, provides no sense of closure for Shepard's trilogy.
Consider how in ME1 Sovereign was defeated and Shepard was left MIA for a short moment against a backdrop of triumph. We were left trembling, uncertain, and devastated. But then the narrative peaked again when it was revealed Shepard survived. We peaked emotionally in that moment. It was a glorious feeling that was reinforced by the glimpse of events to come in the dialogue that followed. There was a strong sense of victory and closure, with an understanding of the impact that your actions had. ME2 followed this same format. It is this moment of brilliance and closure that is sorely lacking.
Instead, we're left with a Shepard whose story is completely unfinished. What happened to the Normandy? Will Shepard rescue them? As it stands, Shepard's trilogy did not come to an end in any shape or form because the highest EMS result implies survival, but back on Earth, in London, in debris, on the ground.
2. The idea of indoctrination was something you had tried to work with at one point and I think the fan suggestion to run with the idea is apt. There are several opportunities that result from this, but also concerns that I have as well. Because the indoctrination concept begins with Shepard being struck by Harbinger's blast, we have several emotioanl aspects of the current ending that need to be reconciled:
A) Anderson's death - this was heartbreaking and to discover it was a dream or product of indoctrination is a cheat. It's my primary concern. Do we find Anderson KIA in rubble? Or is he entirely MIA? If neither work, emotionally, then his sudden survival needs to be absolutely powerful and triumphant. A resurgance of character, ready to fight alongside of you.
C) Harbinger - he should become a focal point, a transition away from TIM and the conflict as a whole into a focused opponent. There doesn't need to be any sort of boss battle, but it should boil down to a battle of wits - your mental and idealistic strength against Harbinger's, which can already be potentially viewed through Shepard's ability or inability to break free of indoctrination in the A, B, C choice at the end.
3. The moment that the Citadel conduit is in view is one massive missed opportunity. It is a callback to the Ilos run of ME1 when we rushed the coduit in the Mako. Use this to your advantage. Do we pull ourselves out of the rubble and make it into the Citadel like we did on Ilos all those years back? Do we fight our way from the hidden and unknown depths of the heart of the Citadel (lore opportunity!) to the very top of the Citadel to face off against Harbinger and destiny? I would suggest examining the structure of ME1 to gain insight and ideas.
4. The choices picked in the current end sequence could impact the route taken in the story. Don't brush them off. It's an opportunity to create three entirely distinct endgame sequences with branch outcomes for each one. Players can use the Legdn Save to go back and play through three separate endgames - . Does one invole the Crucible failing? Does one rely on a war of conventional means? Does one involve a final Battle of the Citadel?
Assuming indoctrination is used to kickstart a new endgame, here are some very brief examples:
A) Destroy Option with Shepard Surviving: this woould be a triumphant moment where you break free of Harbinger's control and rally the troops for a final assault. Your squadmates join you in breaching the Citadel along with small surviving forces. Any battle in the Citadel would become more boisterous.
Additionally, don't present the player with a final choice. Instead, present the player with a final outcome based on the choice the made with the Starchild (which can determine the endgame route) and the choices made during the new endgame sequence. This would follow the structure and theme of ME2, where some live and some die. EMS can act as a modifying factor for the galaxy as a whole against the reapers as usual. The higher the EMS, the lower the casualties (similar to loyalty values in ME2).
5. Involve your non-combat squadmates in various roles, like in the Suicide Run of ME2. Your choices of how they're deployed in the Citadel Battle can affect the final outcome. Do you send one to protect AA batteries so that less reaper forces reach you? Does he/she survive (low EMS = death, high EMS = reinforcements arrive in time for more support). Etc.
6. Finally, if the relays remain destroyed, then you should provide closure. Show that the galaxy will survive. Show that aspects of everything will be rebuilt (this does not include relays - they could rely on FTL). Provide, as you did in ME1 and ME2, a sense of things to come. Don't imply it. Speculation will form naturally as people question "What will galactic society be like in two hundred years if they're forced to rely on FTL travel? Will they develop relays of their own? What will the story of the next game set in the future be? What will everything be like without Shepard?"
Additionally, if the Normandy remains stranded, be clear about why Joker fled, why dead squadmates teleport onto the Normandy and later appeal uninjured, and be clear about the survival of the crew members. As of right now, Garrus and Tali starve to death - there is no hope in that and no closure because nothing in the ending suggests otherwise. Even if you had DLC in place for later that answers this situation, this is how the ending stands.
If possible, you can even use the Stargazer to act as framework for this new turn of events. He is an excellent opportunity to twist the unknown elements into something recognizable. For instance, did the Normandy really flee the battle or was it just a regular Alliance ship that did? Is Stargazer only telling the Child that they're descended from the legendary Normandy as part of the story? Maybe the truth was twisted in that direction over time so that they believe that's who they descended from when, in reality, they actually didn't.
Mass Effect has now become something far more than just a single endeavor by a single company - is this the frontrunner of the potential socialized media carries? That in the future works of art are not just conceived or constructed by a single artist, but are a naturally collaboritive effort between artist and audience? I would suggest embracing this change and would suggest viewing it as a positive evolution of art.
Second this post. well articulated. Covers almost everything I would. and provides direction in a way that still leave Bioware with their creative integrity.
#1470
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:03
AlphaCentauri
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Really, the only thing any of us truly ask for is an ending where our past choices DO have an influence. A cryptic, sudden ending is uncharacteristic of the mass effect series.
I'm even okay with the mass relays being destroyed - actually did enjoy this to a certain degree, allowed me to sit there and think, it was a contemplative ending for me. How will the species rise again, what will become of the galaxy, how will the cultures and biologies of people who were once of identical species evolve now that they will be seperated for thousands of years.
However, the plot holes were unacceptable. We all know the question - how did my squadmates get back on the ship. What becomes of earth. What happens to the people on the citadel. ETC.
What we really need is an ending that not only reflects our choices, but an ending WITH choices. The 3 choices at the end aren't what I mean - I mean ME2 choices, where your commands change who lives and who dies.
The final battle and ending was underwhelming. I sacrificed the entire quarian species - I would have liked to see the geth play a bigger role, I would like that massive choice to have a bigger impact. So many other things I could say too, about the collector base technology from ME2, or Anderson/Udina becoming a completely trivial choice since Anderson was a large character for Earth.
Mass Effect is a unique series - in many games sudden plot twists and cryptic endings are somewhat acceptable, but in Mass Effect, if the choices you made suddenly have no relevance, and you don't get to learn what happens to the massive, interspecies spacefaring galaxy-wide civilization that you just saved, then all the interesting story is for nought.
But good job on the final boss. His name was...Marauder Shields.
I'm even okay with the mass relays being destroyed - actually did enjoy this to a certain degree, allowed me to sit there and think, it was a contemplative ending for me. How will the species rise again, what will become of the galaxy, how will the cultures and biologies of people who were once of identical species evolve now that they will be seperated for thousands of years.
However, the plot holes were unacceptable. We all know the question - how did my squadmates get back on the ship. What becomes of earth. What happens to the people on the citadel. ETC.
What we really need is an ending that not only reflects our choices, but an ending WITH choices. The 3 choices at the end aren't what I mean - I mean ME2 choices, where your commands change who lives and who dies.
The final battle and ending was underwhelming. I sacrificed the entire quarian species - I would have liked to see the geth play a bigger role, I would like that massive choice to have a bigger impact. So many other things I could say too, about the collector base technology from ME2, or Anderson/Udina becoming a completely trivial choice since Anderson was a large character for Earth.
Mass Effect is a unique series - in many games sudden plot twists and cryptic endings are somewhat acceptable, but in Mass Effect, if the choices you made suddenly have no relevance, and you don't get to learn what happens to the massive, interspecies spacefaring galaxy-wide civilization that you just saved, then all the interesting story is for nought.
But good job on the final boss. His name was...Marauder Shields.
#1471
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:05
Daverid
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Indoctrination Theory...
All the Speculation People have come up with could EASILY be turned into Truth.
Whether you planned this and covered it up OR you never intended it to be a Viable thought pattern for the Ending.
All the Evidence to make this ending a reality is there ... There so many factors that Hint towards it, purposefully or not, and you have this one opportunity to harness these "Possible Accidents".
Your Fans have done all the work here for you and figured out exactly why and how the Indoctrination Theory works ... Now take this as a Second Chance, Create the DLC for it (Free or $10 I don't really care as long it gives closure) and this time make it right. Give us more options for an Ending .. Even if Shepard still dies (Which IMO is deserving of his character), Create more Closure on the Story, Characters and Races we've been invested in over 3 Games and this Incredible Trilogy.
All the Speculation People have come up with could EASILY be turned into Truth.
Whether you planned this and covered it up OR you never intended it to be a Viable thought pattern for the Ending.
All the Evidence to make this ending a reality is there ... There so many factors that Hint towards it, purposefully or not, and you have this one opportunity to harness these "Possible Accidents".
Your Fans have done all the work here for you and figured out exactly why and how the Indoctrination Theory works ... Now take this as a Second Chance, Create the DLC for it (Free or $10 I don't really care as long it gives closure) and this time make it right. Give us more options for an Ending .. Even if Shepard still dies (Which IMO is deserving of his character), Create more Closure on the Story, Characters and Races we've been invested in over 3 Games and this Incredible Trilogy.
#1472
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:06
ArkenRennatta
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The story is serviceable, albeit dumbed down, riiiiight up until the point where the Citadel is hijacked off screen. This is the point where the Mass Effect universe is now irreparably destroyed. Continuity within their own games has now been thrown out the window.
The Citadel is the checkmate move of the Reapers. With it, they can shut down control of every Mass Relay in the galaxy. This is something that was established in the very first game, it is something that is incredibly important to the Reapers. This, as was established in dialogue in the previous games, is the ONLY way the Reapers could engage the entire galaxy and be sure of absolute victory. It let them cut off every star system so that they could be conquered in a neat and orderly fashion. The Reapers never do this once they have the Citadel. They just move it and do nothing with it afterwards.
This needs to be explained. This is, without a doubt, the biggest plot hole in the entire series, and no one even tries to explain why this happens. You have to explain why the Reapers don't just shut down the Mass Relays. And this has to be a good reason, a really ****ing good reason. The Reapers have IFFs, this let them move through a Mass Relay that refused to operate for any ship that didn't have this signal. That means that, logically, even a shut down Mass Relay will still probably operate for the Reaper forces. So shutting down the relays won't effect their own forces, they will still be able to move around. So that isn't the reason they don't shut down the relays.
The only reason I can possibly imagine why this doesn't happen is because either the Alliance, or the Asari, or the council as a whole finds out what the Citadel does (because they refuse to believe it throughout 3 games), and decides to completely disable this function of the Citadel, and the Reapers need time to fix this. That is the only possible explanation that would make sense, that would redeem the Reaper's, that would make them seem even the slightest bit competent or threatening. Otherwise? They are retards who could have won without lifting a tentacle and didn't because they forgot the 47 million year old purpose to a device they ****ing made.
What comes next? Well, the next massive plot hole is the Catalyst. When Shepherd talks to the Catalyst he completely loses his/her mind and becomes an idiot. He asks no questions, makes no demands for answers, and accepts everything at face value. This character has lived, breathed, and **** Reapers for years of his life and un-life. He wants to know everything. No, this isn't just my Shepherd, this is every Shepherd. Despite what Bioware claims, there are some universal truths to the Shepherd character that extend to everybody: He is not an idiot. He is not going to make a choice without knowing all the reasons. He is not going to sacrifice his life without at least knowing the truth himself.
While we're on the topic of the Catalyst.. What the **** is the point of this thing? Scrap it. It seriously does nothing but harm the entire franchise by existing, I can't even imagine a way for it to be cannon in the story without it being a giant testament to the incompetence of the Reapers, and a sign of their utter silliness. Do you know who should have been talking to Shepherd at the end? Harbinger. We've already established that he likes to talk to Shepherd, that he can transmit glowy visuals of himself across space. Have Harbinger go "Oh.. ****, I guess we're at an impasse here, huh? I won't insult your intelligence by trying to stall you for time by having a long, drawn out conversation while I get closer to tentacle raping you, so you have a choice. What do you want to do to settle this, Shepherd?"
Coming to choice.. actually ****ing give us one. That sounds schtookum to me. The three base choices aren't even bad, but their consequences are never felt or explained, and they completely overshadow some of the other very obvious choices that still exist. How about Shepherd does nothing? How about Shepherd trusts his friends, trusts his allies, trusts the power of friendship and rainbows and lets his fleet fight it out with the Reaper Armada man to man. Obviously this would be a very difficult fight, but the Reaper's are not indestructible, as we see in the cutscene just minutes earlier. They -fear- fighting the ENTIRE Galaxy for a reason, because they can still get their asses blown apart. Sure, this isn't the entirety of the Reaper army in the Galaxy, but we could sure as hell take the fight out of them even if we win this -one- battle. Why is that not an ending?
Fix Anderson teleporting onto the Citadel. Fix TIM teleporting onto the citadel. Give reasons, explanations, come on Bioware this is basic ****. Tell me how my squadmembers live, tell me how they get on the Normandy, tell me why Joker runs away. Tell me what happens after, tell me the fate of the people I care about. You owe us answers. That is the one thing that Mass Effect 3 needed ABOVE all else: ****ing answers. Close up some of these god damn gaping plot holes. You can do almost -all- of that with a couple new lines of recorded audio and a few weeks in the editing room. Do it right, or don't do it at all.
The Citadel is the checkmate move of the Reapers. With it, they can shut down control of every Mass Relay in the galaxy. This is something that was established in the very first game, it is something that is incredibly important to the Reapers. This, as was established in dialogue in the previous games, is the ONLY way the Reapers could engage the entire galaxy and be sure of absolute victory. It let them cut off every star system so that they could be conquered in a neat and orderly fashion. The Reapers never do this once they have the Citadel. They just move it and do nothing with it afterwards.
This needs to be explained. This is, without a doubt, the biggest plot hole in the entire series, and no one even tries to explain why this happens. You have to explain why the Reapers don't just shut down the Mass Relays. And this has to be a good reason, a really ****ing good reason. The Reapers have IFFs, this let them move through a Mass Relay that refused to operate for any ship that didn't have this signal. That means that, logically, even a shut down Mass Relay will still probably operate for the Reaper forces. So shutting down the relays won't effect their own forces, they will still be able to move around. So that isn't the reason they don't shut down the relays.
The only reason I can possibly imagine why this doesn't happen is because either the Alliance, or the Asari, or the council as a whole finds out what the Citadel does (because they refuse to believe it throughout 3 games), and decides to completely disable this function of the Citadel, and the Reapers need time to fix this. That is the only possible explanation that would make sense, that would redeem the Reaper's, that would make them seem even the slightest bit competent or threatening. Otherwise? They are retards who could have won without lifting a tentacle and didn't because they forgot the 47 million year old purpose to a device they ****ing made.
What comes next? Well, the next massive plot hole is the Catalyst. When Shepherd talks to the Catalyst he completely loses his/her mind and becomes an idiot. He asks no questions, makes no demands for answers, and accepts everything at face value. This character has lived, breathed, and **** Reapers for years of his life and un-life. He wants to know everything. No, this isn't just my Shepherd, this is every Shepherd. Despite what Bioware claims, there are some universal truths to the Shepherd character that extend to everybody: He is not an idiot. He is not going to make a choice without knowing all the reasons. He is not going to sacrifice his life without at least knowing the truth himself.
While we're on the topic of the Catalyst.. What the **** is the point of this thing? Scrap it. It seriously does nothing but harm the entire franchise by existing, I can't even imagine a way for it to be cannon in the story without it being a giant testament to the incompetence of the Reapers, and a sign of their utter silliness. Do you know who should have been talking to Shepherd at the end? Harbinger. We've already established that he likes to talk to Shepherd, that he can transmit glowy visuals of himself across space. Have Harbinger go "Oh.. ****, I guess we're at an impasse here, huh? I won't insult your intelligence by trying to stall you for time by having a long, drawn out conversation while I get closer to tentacle raping you, so you have a choice. What do you want to do to settle this, Shepherd?"
Coming to choice.. actually ****ing give us one. That sounds schtookum to me. The three base choices aren't even bad, but their consequences are never felt or explained, and they completely overshadow some of the other very obvious choices that still exist. How about Shepherd does nothing? How about Shepherd trusts his friends, trusts his allies, trusts the power of friendship and rainbows and lets his fleet fight it out with the Reaper Armada man to man. Obviously this would be a very difficult fight, but the Reaper's are not indestructible, as we see in the cutscene just minutes earlier. They -fear- fighting the ENTIRE Galaxy for a reason, because they can still get their asses blown apart. Sure, this isn't the entirety of the Reaper army in the Galaxy, but we could sure as hell take the fight out of them even if we win this -one- battle. Why is that not an ending?
Fix Anderson teleporting onto the Citadel. Fix TIM teleporting onto the citadel. Give reasons, explanations, come on Bioware this is basic ****. Tell me how my squadmembers live, tell me how they get on the Normandy, tell me why Joker runs away. Tell me what happens after, tell me the fate of the people I care about. You owe us answers. That is the one thing that Mass Effect 3 needed ABOVE all else: ****ing answers. Close up some of these god damn gaping plot holes. You can do almost -all- of that with a couple new lines of recorded audio and a few weeks in the editing room. Do it right, or don't do it at all.
Modifié par ArkenRennatta, 17 mars 2012 - 02:12 .
#1473
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:07
JJBC29
-
- Members
- 7 messages
Pros of ME3
-exciting gameplay
-more refined inventory/item management
-great cameo appearances by all your old squadmates
Issues of ME3
-Non choices: Decisions of previous game that were thought to have great impact did little (rachni/reaper base)
-Endings: All the various endings were incredibly similar, and left major plot holes within the Mass Effect canon.
What I would like to see
-Explain how the mass relays do not wipe out the system they occupy (see Arrival).
-Get Joker and the Normandy back to Earth.
-Provide an ending that reflects the monumental choices that I have made in three games. This should not involve a pick your ending, my choices have been made, now show me the cost of my desicions, and their impact on this universe.
-The uncut full Anderson "I'm proud" speech
-CLOSURE: Where are my squadmates, friends, lover(s) now? My enemies? What path I have set this galaxy on!
I don't expect Sheppard to live, this is a tragic and bittersweet story. Just give me closure and continuity, show that my choices have made my fate, what ever the cost.
Perhaps even a slideshow ala Dragon Age: Origins?
p.s. Why doesn't Harbinger ever talk to me?? He never calls anymore!! I think he should do that more often.
-exciting gameplay
-more refined inventory/item management
-great cameo appearances by all your old squadmates
Issues of ME3
-Non choices: Decisions of previous game that were thought to have great impact did little (rachni/reaper base)
-Endings: All the various endings were incredibly similar, and left major plot holes within the Mass Effect canon.
What I would like to see
-Explain how the mass relays do not wipe out the system they occupy (see Arrival).
-Get Joker and the Normandy back to Earth.
-Provide an ending that reflects the monumental choices that I have made in three games. This should not involve a pick your ending, my choices have been made, now show me the cost of my desicions, and their impact on this universe.
-The uncut full Anderson "I'm proud" speech
-CLOSURE: Where are my squadmates, friends, lover(s) now? My enemies? What path I have set this galaxy on!
I don't expect Sheppard to live, this is a tragic and bittersweet story. Just give me closure and continuity, show that my choices have made my fate, what ever the cost.
Perhaps even a slideshow ala Dragon Age: Origins?
p.s. Why doesn't Harbinger ever talk to me?? He never calls anymore!! I think he should do that more often.
#1474
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:07
kleindropper
-
- Members
- 600 messages
I'm sure you are going to want an ending that makes us want to jump right back in and replay the game. I haven't touched the game all week since I finished and have no urge to at this point.
#1475
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:07
cake truck
-
- Members
- 6 messages
I enjoyed the enjoyed the entire game up until the ending.
To explain what I didn't like about it I'd like to quote Brent Knowles:
________
I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending
was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was
missing the point.
It is a game. Not a movie.
And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are
*part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the
game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.
Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.
Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not
played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy
Ending should (try to) do the following:
1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff
they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique
impact on the world.
2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video
games... life in general is full of ****ty stuff happening all the time.
When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling
like a hero.
When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an
artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is
more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the
consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain
directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific
types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game
trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe.
That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match
reality, disappointment is created.
It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of
ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame
*trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the
series on a high note.
---------------------
Your ending achieved none of these things and invalidated everything that Shepard has worked towards. It made the journey pointless. Here is a quote from Casey Hudson's interview with Gameinformer from January 2012:
____________
(Gameinformer questions the amount of variey in the endings of ME3)
Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.It’s more like there are some really obvious things that are
different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about
who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way
down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left
your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in
them. It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a
chart for that. Even with Mass Effect 2’s...
--------------
This is a game where I expected to be able to bring all of the different Shepards that I have developed over the last two games through the third game to see all of the varied endings I would get. Not because I assumed that to be the case, but because we were told that was the case. Your endgame not only did not deliver on the promises you made, but it neutered every single Shepard and forced them to one single ending. The state of where you leave your galaxy is beyond depressing and offers no explanation of what happens to anyone be they individual characters or their civilizations.
I can tell you that you have destroyed all replay value that this game has and the previous games as well. I have no interest in paying for DLC that lets me experience one or two more missions just so I can go destroy the universe afterwards. I would have loved a fitting end to Shepards story one where she could look back on her actions and feel like she actually accomplished what she set out to do.
Sources:
www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx
blog.brentknowles.com/2012/03/11/mass-effect-3-and-day-one-dlc/
(in the comments)
To explain what I didn't like about it I'd like to quote Brent Knowles:
________
I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending
was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was
missing the point.
It is a game. Not a movie.
And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are
*part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the
game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.
Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.
Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not
played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy
Ending should (try to) do the following:
1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff
they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique
impact on the world.
2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video
games... life in general is full of ****ty stuff happening all the time.
When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling
like a hero.
When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an
artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is
more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the
consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain
directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific
types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game
trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe.
That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match
reality, disappointment is created.
It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of
ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame
*trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the
series on a high note.
---------------------
Your ending achieved none of these things and invalidated everything that Shepard has worked towards. It made the journey pointless. Here is a quote from Casey Hudson's interview with Gameinformer from January 2012:
____________
(Gameinformer questions the amount of variey in the endings of ME3)
Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.It’s more like there are some really obvious things that are
different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about
who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way
down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left
your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in
them. It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a
chart for that. Even with Mass Effect 2’s...
--------------
This is a game where I expected to be able to bring all of the different Shepards that I have developed over the last two games through the third game to see all of the varied endings I would get. Not because I assumed that to be the case, but because we were told that was the case. Your endgame not only did not deliver on the promises you made, but it neutered every single Shepard and forced them to one single ending. The state of where you leave your galaxy is beyond depressing and offers no explanation of what happens to anyone be they individual characters or their civilizations.
I can tell you that you have destroyed all replay value that this game has and the previous games as well. I have no interest in paying for DLC that lets me experience one or two more missions just so I can go destroy the universe afterwards. I would have loved a fitting end to Shepards story one where she could look back on her actions and feel like she actually accomplished what she set out to do.
Sources:
www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx
blog.brentknowles.com/2012/03/11/mass-effect-3-and-day-one-dlc/
(in the comments)
Modifié par cake truck, 17 mars 2012 - 02:20 .
