7055 réponses à ce sujet

[Total Biscuit]

Choices and Variety.

Indoctrination theory would be an ideal way to remove all the massive plot holes and lack of sense in the endings as they stand.

After that, give us properly varied set of outcomes and success or failure based on what we choose in the rest of the game.

But mostly don't just force nonsensical misery on us.

I'm fine wih bittersweet as an option, but it HAS to have alternatives, total failure, sad barely surviving, bittersweet, hopeful optimistic and just flat out happy.

You foreshadowed little blue kids, a house on Rannoch, a bottle of brandy with Chakwas and a load of other happy post reaper scenarios for when it was all over, so actually deliver it for those who were playing these games to get those rewards you teased them with.

And don't destroy the relays in every ending. It's just throwing away one of the most unique parts of ME for no reason.

As an option it's fine, maybe for the endings where you didn't do enough, but again, don't force things on us like that.

The rest of the game was awesome though, especially Tali, EDI, Garrus, Steve, Samantha for their dialogue and romances, and the stories on Rannoch and Tuchanka. Now those did variety and choice well, endings with that much variety and choice should be the barest minimum the games ends should have.

Legion and Mordins sacrifices did Bittersweet and emotional perfectly. In the scenarios where Shepard dies to save the day, that's the benchmark you should be aiming at. But again, choosing for Shepard to win and live happily ever after needs to be an option, as well as Shepard sacrificing themselves and still not winning.

Modifié par Total Biscuit, 17 mars 2012 - 03:26 .

[Kloborgg711]

For me, there was absolutely nothing more important than simply ending up with Liara (my LI). I was prepared to lose all my squad mates (though I would've been crushed if Garrus died), and I would've gladly lost Earth if it meant Shepard has a chance to end up somewhere in the galaxy with Liara. I can't buy the "Red ending and they end up together" because that's really stretching credulity, and as a paragon player I didn't feel right annihilating the Geth I worked so hard to save.

The following is an incredible suggestion and I definitely support it:


[quote]Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...

*copypasta*

1.  Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes. 

2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.

3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:

Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.

Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.

Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.

Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.

High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers. 

High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.


Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion. 

In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.

To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.

The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.

The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
                                Synthesis              Take down Sheilds
                                                __________/ 
                                               (                       )
                 Destroy    --------(                          ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
                                               (                       )
                                                -----------------
                                               /                      
                                      Control                Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.

EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.

5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.

EXAMPLE: 

Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).

Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”

Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.

Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity

Ect.

6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM. 



Anyway, that's my whole view on it. 


THIS WAY:  
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place. 

How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone. [/quote]

This So this. Though don't make very high above 7,000 as higher than that would be too hard to get. 5000 is best for very high.  And put the fight vs TIM back in. I would have liked to whoop his ****. I always assumed that he would be a fight after you defeated the reapers. Martin Sheen deserves nothing less. He did a great job. And either a fight or you being able to taunt/communicate with harbinger would be great as well so the enemy of ME2 isn't just thrown out.

[/quote]

[nicksmi56]

Oh one more thing: please let me SEE the army I've been building up. Rachni, geth, krogan etc. And it really should be possible to beat the Reapers conventionally since they killed all organic life by basically taking them by surprise, not by being godlike. We've seen it done before in the game itself so why not?

[lasertank]

Here's what I want.

1. A truly EPIC space battle between the reaper and the allied fleet. I want more description on this battle. How each race aided the Earth. How did they fight against the reaper. How did they sacrifice themselves for the greater good. At least it should be more thrilling than ME1.

2. More battles on the Earth!!! Don't forget the slogan the slogan "Take the Earth back." At least the battle on Earth would continue for a few days. More scenes around the Earth should be presented.

3. I want to fight with all my friends at the same time. At least cooperate like the suicide mission in ME2.

4. Definitive and conclusive endings. And my choices and decisions should have deep impact on these endings.

5. RACHNI ARMY instead of workers. How lame is that?

[Yaldo]

What I would like to see, in short, this:

https://www.facebook...150599217676616

Or something very similar. With the obvious additions for the other LI's.

[ssyyllaarr]

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

[mkriddle4232]

1. Plot Holes. Plot Holes. Plot Holes. More than any other part of the ending this bothers me the most. The arrival dlc clearly said that if you destroy a mass relay then its the equivalent of a super nova. This is even mentioned DURING ME3. Also, my entire squad, not just the 2 I brought with me were on Earth. Joker was above Earth fighting. How the heck did they get onto the Normandy. Why was Joker running away? How did he get to Pluto to the mass relay? If he was just using FTL then how was he going anywhere NEAR the speed of the explosion that went through the mass relay. When the Normandy crashes, how are they going to survive? Tali and Garrus require as different food source than anyone else on the ship. They will starve to death. The Galactic Armada stranded on a decimated Earth. Earth that does not have the resources to sustain them all. Plus the Turians and the Quarians can't eat anything from Earth. Most of the Galaxy is going to STARVE TO DEATH.

2. My choices did not matter. While I will admit the mass effect series as always has somewhat of an illusion of choice, and therefore would not necessarily mind a few set options at the end, I would like an epilogue showing how my choices affected the galaxy. But those choices need to make sense for Shepherd. My Shepherd would never have just accepted the Catalyst's words. The entire ending sequence I wanted to turn around and shoot him in the face. I gathered the forces of the galaxy together. I earned the option to say screw you and fight it out..

3. The ending felt like it didn't fit the rest of the series. Like the themes had abruptly changed. Part of the series to me was saying anything was possible. Shepherd always had that attitude. To completely change that just because of the words of some "Starchild" just makes no sense.

4. Closure. I don't want to think about it and decide myself what happened. I want to be flat out told what happened to my crew, Shepherd, and the rest of the galaxy.

5.Indoctrination Theory. Don't put so many hints for this if it is not true. Why did random trees that look like the ones from the dreams appear behind me? They were not there when I ran down the hill.

6. Why is Marauder Shields more of a hero than Shepherd in the end? He tried to save me from that ending and I thoughtless gunned him down.

P.S. Although I would like the full Anderson conversation in one of the endings. So much better than the one in game.

[Noatz]

Hello. First of all I would just like to say I appreciate that you are actively seeking out feedback and that it might seem like a thankless task with some of the... less patient fans.

The only thing I feel that needs changing about the game is the ending. I enjoyed the game immensely up until that point with only very minor issues bothering me, and yet despite the fun I had I currently have no desire to play the game through again or pick up any extra mission DLCs. I hope that emphasises just how much I want this to be addressed.

> In general, I feel a less ambiguous end is better suited to the franchise. Its easy to get on board with the messages of tolerance throughout the game, and all the characters that sacrificed their lives made me believe in Shepard's fight. Not knowing what happened to the galaxy I fought to save makes it easy to believe it was all for nothing. I need to see whether all the sacrifice was worth it (and it doesn't have to be, as long as the option exists to replay the game ad make it worth it next time through different choices).

> Story wise, I believe using indoctrination would make for a very powerful springboard to a new ending. Of course, if this was what the plan was all along...

> Try to have the ending make sense. A lot of grievance springs from people trying to connect the dots between what they are shown during the ending and discovering that the puzzle simply does not fit together. They can only play by the rules already established in the lore and the events they have been shown. Rules such as mass relays destroying star systems when destroyed, and events such as the squadmates shown exiting the Normandy being beside Shepard before the final beam.

> I felt a disconnect between myself and Shepard during the final scene. This was because before I could always challenge what I disagreed with, and there was little of that in the conversation with the Catalyst.

That about covers it, thanks for listening.

Modifié par Noatz, 17 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[RaenImrahl]

I'll take off my metal moderator skullcap for a second and respond as just another gamer for a moment...

I am looking forward to more pre-ending DLC that will expand the story before the finale and allow me (someone who is devoutly single-player) to aquire more war assets.  As to the ending, I would suggest:

1) A DLC epilogue, which includes a series of slides after the final cutscene (the one with Joker and the crash, not the one with Buzz Aldrin).  The content of the slides could answer many of the lingering questions, including those brought about by introducing an important new character ("The Star Child") in the last few minutes of the game...  what did my decision mean?  What happens to Earth?  The fleet?  The rest of galactic civilization?  Did the destruction of the Mass Effect relays wipe out entire star systems, as was implied in the Arrival DLC?  And, of course, what of the major characters?  The actual content of the epilogue should reflect the choices I made throughout the series.

The DA:O epilogue was a great coda to the game... actually one of its best aspects, because it gave us a sense of accomplishment, even if our character sacrificed herself in the end.  It should also be (relatively) easy to do, as opposed to having actors come back and animating entire cutscenes. 

2) The Epilogue DLC should be free to those who have purchased and registered the game.

Ultimately, the problem with the game stems from a mis-reading on the part of the developers on the nature of the medium.  They should look to Canada's own Marshall McLuhan... "the medium is the message".  We use this medium of the video game, especially a game as intricately woven and interactive as the Mass Effect series, at a much higher level of cognitive and emotional involvement that print, film, or television.  The ending, as it stands, denies the player of much of that accustomed interactivity once Shepherd is blasted by the reaper during the final charge.  An epilogue, as I have described, won't fix that, but it would mitigate it.

One other suggestion...

3) I'd like to see Electronic Arts dip into its coffers and match whatever amount the Retake Mass Effect movement has raised by the middle of April.  EA's accountants can surely find a way to justify such corporate good will.

RI

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 18 mars 2012 - 06:36 .

[Fame-KIllz]

 This is why we don't like the endings:
#1
#2

And this is what you should go with instead (youtube vid)
Indoctrination theory

[mrderp27]

• The mass relays asploding goes against the entire plot of Arrival. Every system should have, according to Arrival, asploded when the relays blew up.
• The whole Joker and Team Shepard scene.  Joker and his team  wouldn't have left Shepard in any circumstance.  A big part of conversations between squad mates and Hackett/Anderson is the fact that Shepard's team would go through and hell back for him, and that his team was fully committed to defeating the Reapers, which wouldn't involve deciding to go through the Sol Relay for some unexplained reason
• Squadmates being on the Normandy.  How did that happen? Magic? If your squadmates, according to radio chatter died during the run to the conduit, how, if for whatever reason they decided to abandon Shepard, did they get to the Normany (Cortez was shot down, wasn't he?), and then get past the giant battle occuring above Earth to get all the way to the Relay to go to some unexplained system
• The circular logic of the reason for the Reaper's killing everyone
• All of the decisions result in the same cutscene with different colors
• Shepard doing everything the Catalyst tells him/her without question.  Shepard should look for a different way.
• The lack of closure regarding the decisions on Tuchanka, Rannoch etc
• How did Anderson get ahead of you when in the Citadel after entering after you? In fact, where was Anderson when you were limping to the conduit? He was nowhere to be found. 
• Why were there so many dead bodies piling up in the Citadel? Anderson asked if they were building another Reaper in there. Were they?
• The ending doesn't need to be happy. I destroyed the Reapers despite
  knowing that Shepard would die. An option of Shepard living depending on
  military strength/previous decisions would be nice, though.
• How did TIM get on Earth and into the Citadel?
• Why is the starchild in the form of the vent kid? How does the Catalyst know about him?
• Who made the Catalyst and why did they become so worried about Synthetics killing off organics? Why doesn't the possible peace you can broker between the Geth and Quarians and the relationship between Joker and EDI invalidate the Catalyst's logic?  Why don't the Reapers kill the synthetics?
• More Harbinger. He's the leader of the Reapers and represents everything Shepard's against. He needs more air time, not just two cut scenes where he nukes you and then goes back on his merry way

99% of the game was awesome; the last 10 minutes invalidated everything the player does in ME1,2, and 3.

Modifié par mrderp27, 17 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[MissMaster_2]

Also I want to see Shepard and Garrus adopt Turian and human orphans, who's parents were killed in the Reaper attack. I will pay for it!

[Helen0rz]

Indoctrination Theory sounds great...but I dont want it to be the exact thing because that's...I dont know that's not how it should be. We shouldn't have to come up with that, that's you, the writer's responsibility to write the masterpiece from start to finish. The aforementioned questions (like the Normandy, your squad/crew, etc) HAS to be answered. I dont need a cookie cutter, fairy tale type of ending, but I need to know what happened after Shepard is shown to be alive.

[LostHero2k9]

wow so many people can't be wrong... almost every poster brings exactly the same things to the table. don't know what else to say/add/explain further!

Modifié par LostHero2k9, 17 mars 2012 - 03:25 .

[Scottish_highlander]

Firstly thanks for coming down here and listening to us.

I personally don't mind whether Shepard dies or not, in fact on my playthrough I landed in London fully expecting it to happen. My main issue is that the sacrifice wasn't done well. In order to give such an act meaning you have to either give the character a damned good speech  or show the results of their actions. Without these Shepard's sacrifice fell flat.
I feel similarly about the endings, removing companions and inquisitive speech options denies us the opportunity to get involved in the decisions we make. My Shepard wanted to question the "star child," my Shepard wanted the opinions of the other characters.
The implimentation of the ending fell flat for me due to a lack of involvement. Even before I knew that the ending cinematics were incredibly similar I was dissappointed with the lack of any consequencesto some of my actions [while I wanted to cure the genophage I was really nervous about possible results] How are the Krogan doing? Will the Quarians and Geth live peacefully? I got no answers to these questions. instead the allied fleets seemed stranded around Earth running low on food and fuel...that's not bittersweet, that's the destruction of nearly all of what I'd spent the last 30 hours trying to preserve. Destroying the mass relays wasn't a bad idea, it gives a sense of the races of the galaxy removing the constraints placed there by thereapers but please don't do it while the largest military force the galaxy has seen is stranded around a little blue-green planet with large amounts of weaponry and dwindling food. At least if you're going to take the path of the destruction of the relays then give some little hope for some other form of transportation around the galaxy which isn'tgoing to take 20 years to get to anywhere important. This could be an important step for many of the races involved, they developed a certain way because the reapers wanted them to. By creating new methods of travel they are becoming truly independent for the first time.
I'm not too wild on the catalyst itself either, it seemed to be at odds with the mood the game had been [very successfully] cultivating until that moment. I would have liked to see more input from the war assets as well. During the space battle and in London we never saw things like Geth Primes helping to kill Brutes or Salarian STGs "Holding the line" it would've given a great sense of being involved in something much bigger even if it was relegated to a couple of scenes and some radio chatter.
I've gone on for probably far too long and rambled a fair amount. The game itself is good [better than good] however the ending has an unfortunate habit of making everything you've done so far seem completely meaningless and every choice irrelevent and it really leaves a horrible taste in the mouth.


Oh and please put the cut Anderson dialogue back in... It's completely awesome and wonderfully poignant

Modifié par Scottish_highlander, 17 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[Kiara]

A big yes to indoctrination theory, that way the ending you got now just needs to be added to and it will all make sense. making the current ending all a dream and there for not real.

Allowing us the players to continue on with the real battle with Harbinger and save the galaxy.. or dominate it... depending how the renegade people do it.. Sorry can never bring myself to play full renegade lol.

Different endings would be nice.. all crucially different depending on the choice's Shepard made..

You guys know how to make a ending, I have seen it in other games, I fail to see why this was so drastically more difficult. ME3 was a great game up until when the credits started rolling.

[babelcarlota]

camcon2100 wrote...

Go with the indoctrination theory. Make it so we face off with Harbinger for real this time. And make the crucible a realistic construct some sort of blast that weakens the Reapers. This allows us to use our EMS to determine how the rest plays out. This would be perfect

I agree with this guy. The indoctrination theory works with the current "ending" and elaborating more on it by including closure would be great.

I loved the closure I got with my LI and would possibly like to see more of it near the possible "real ending" if it does come about.

I really really really loved how real the LI storylines felt.

[Computim]

I apologize if you've already got most of my rants. I really -really- appreciate the civility and respect you've shown to our, not always respectful movement Jessica.

I'd like the ending to reflect the canon set by Bioware to this point.. the Mass Relay exploding thing really annoyed me haha.

Personally I think I could actually LIKE the whole citadel scene if it turns out it was like an indoctrination attempt.. probably will have my fellow "hold the liners" giving me looks in the tavern but it's true.. I love Bioware's stories.. I just don't feel this one was appropriate for the place

If it turns out I should have chosen destroy instead of synthesis to undoctrinate then it's my own fault and I'll have to play through it again.

I love cutscenes... but I don't like them when they force the player into a situation that they would never do or doesn't make sense. Shepard spent the last 3 games doing things for 1 life, saying that one life was more important than the many in lots of cases, the genophage experiments, some of the random side quests in ME1, I could get a big list but suffice to say Sheppard would never do something that he knew would wipe out the Geth especially after he just fought to save them, and the synthesis endings still leave the entire fleet trapped at earth unless there's some mondo space magic involved... that's assuming earth is even there with the mass relays exploding, which according to canon, they shouldn't be.

I want my war assets I got on the citadel to count. It felt like the devs ran out of time and were going to have an epic fight through the citadel mission there but I ended up going through the garbage chute and didn't even have to fight off a tentacle eye... (also the textures with the human writing in a part of the citadel no human had ever seen was just sloppy if it's not inside Sheppard's head, I noticed them before I started going over some stuff with a fine toothed comb looking for hope it wasn't real - Same with The Illusive Man just showing up.. how'd he even get down there from the main levels anyway?)

The most profound movies have death and sadness and ending, but they also show that life goes on. There was none of that here, it was just ending with the Buzz Aldrin scene (I love Buzz as well, epic paragon of awesome). The only 'epilogue' I saw was basically the opening to Lost. Joker is going to last a month before something snaps him in half... (be that EDI or an angry monkeything). If they're going to start over at least show them like farming, have Tali with a house or something.. show civillization trying to rebuild together if you're a paragon that managed to unite the galaxy.

Finally, have my choices matter.. Don't say that they did, have the last 3 games build up to, what was supposed to be the culmination of all my choices, and then give me the chance to get 9 endings of which there are a total of 1.25 really big differences to them. (Feel bad for the colour blind dudes). It just didn't feel like the standard of story telling excellence I'd find in a Bioware Product... take KOTOR, SWTOR, ME, ME2, Dragon Age, (Even Dragon Age II though some didn't like that, I did with a few dislikes but overall was good).. even the first 95% of ME3...

Thanks again for listening.. and I just want to finish by saying you have no idea how much I actually appreciated having a respectful voice on Bioware's side. The gentlemen the other day (I forget their names, I don't keep up on you guys as much as some here - just know you're a good studio who've released awesome games for as long as I can remember) who had an evening conversation in the non-spoiler section deserve thanks as well.

Thanks and goodnight

[KadivyaSky]

The overcoming indoctrination theory is a good one. I do not believe that anything after the Cerberus base was even real. If you want to make a good ending, have Shepard wake up wherever it is necessary to do so (medbay, hospital, etc) after having struggled and overcome indoctrination THEN go back and fight the fight.

Represent all the assets in some form or another, whether by mention (ooh the Rachni are here in numbers!) or by visuals (you see the various types of ships), and then it's a real battle where the Citadel is now. Have the reapers rallying around it. Maybe trying to infiltrate it to stop the catalyst from being used. Get there in time to save the people on the Citadel (or not), have the fight ON the Citadel.

Have varied endings through that fight based on your assets. Did you bring enough troops to the fight or are they overwhelmed and you get overrun on the Citadel and game over? Or did you bring just enough and the fight is hard and you might lose friends/allies that you care about? Or did you max things out and bring more than enough and seriously keep the badguys at bay while you go in to find whatever you need to find to get the catalyst working with the Crucible.

THEN maybe you have to fight the indoctrinated TIM and his cronies. Maybe he speaks with Harbinger's voice or something. You have to deal with higher tech but NOT god powers. He tries to trick you perhaps with imagery (similar to the godchild stuff maybe) but you can overcome that having beaten indoctrination and you push the button. Again, what this ends up doing is all based on what YOU accumulated assetwise to build that Crucible. If you bare minimumed it might just zorch everyone. If you seriously got every little thing, it's a perfect ending and you zorch the reapers and don't touch ANYONE else (synthetic or not).

Really there's ALL KINDS of ways you can end it to make your choices matter, but the dreamlike teleporting to a citadel where a ghostkid tells you to pick R, G, or B and they're your ONLY choices and you can't tell the kid 'no' and just fight the reapers or something, is ridiculous. I'll keep thinking it was a dream or indoctrination.

And if you DO release a DLC fixed ending, please do not even think of charging for it. The game was incomplete and did not live up to the hype or promises issued by Bioware itself. Fix it please.

EDIT: Addendum. If you want the visual of the relays linking, have the Crucible aimed AT the relays at the time it goes off so that the power disperses over the whole of the universe and destroys them all, and whether you made the Crucible perfect or not determines the fates of those relays.

Modifié par KadivyaSky, 17 mars 2012 - 03:29 .

[Porfirmir]

Give Tali an actual face instead of a badly Photoshopped stock photo.

[Regan Cousland]

This how I think BioWare should change the ending of ME3:

When Shepard regains consciousness following Harbinger's laser strike, he spots his two squadmates lying inert in the rubble nearby. He doesn't know at this point if they're dead or not but he can't stop to check. Now the fate of the galaxy rests on his shoulders alone, and he has one chance to reach the citadel before Harbinger notices he's alive. Burned and bloodied he staggers onward, puts a bullet between the eyes of brave Marauder Shields, and rides the big blue beam into the heavens.

Everything hence proceeds as scripted: the Illusive Man dies, and as life slips away from dear old Captain Anderson he professes his pride in our hero. ("You did good, son. I'm proud of you." ... "Thank you, sir." Aww.)

Covered in blood, delirious, Shepard crawls toward the contol panel and the voice of Admiral Hacket in an attempt to activate the Crucible.

He doesn't make it: he's too tired, physically and mentally, and the moment he passes out, Harbinger exploits this weakness ... via INDOCTRINATION.

Everything from this point forward (the magical elevator, the large white room, the Starchild) is Harbinger's last-gasp attempt to stop Shepard before he can activate the Crucible using the control panel, which, in the real world, he's LYING RIGHT NEXT TO!

The God Child, the self-proclaimed "Catalyst", is in fact the personification of Harbinger, and his aim is simple: convince Shepard that allowing the Reapers to live, that becoming one with the machine, is the best way to save the galaxy from the Reapers.

If Shepard chooses the Control ending, the usual cutscene rolls: Shepard is disintegrated, the Reapers leave Earth, a bright blue explosion destroys all the relays in the galaxy and the Normandy crew crashlands in paradise.

But of course none of this really happens. It's all going on inside Shep's head. And instead of the final credits -- there's a moment of pure shock horror! Joker turns away from the two-moon vista that he was just admiring and looks right into the camera, his eyes glowing a furious blue, and he grabs Shepard, grab's YOU, by the throat.

"Assuming direct control," says Jeff in Harbingers deep, terrifying voice, choking the life out of Shepard.

Now we enter a frantic VR style boss battle on the idyllic green planet as Commander Shepard struggles to regain his sanity by fighting off Harbinger's indoctrination. It's a haunting battle in which Shepard has to personally kill each of his crewmates, starting with Joker, and ending with his love interest, and they each beg for their lives before Shepard finishes them.

Finally, Harbinger's various facades are stripped away and Shepard shoots the Starchild right between the eyes, liberating his mind and waking up in the real world.

(If Shepard chooses the Destroy option, he's already made some progress toward defeating indoctrination and his battle against his ghostly crewmates is easier. Shepard's powers are enhanced and he has all the best weapons from his arsenal with no weight penalty restrictions.)

Gasping, free from the grip of indoctrination, Shepard hauls himself up to the control panel where he can hear Admiral Hackett asking him to answer -- implying that Shepard has only been unconscious for the space of a few seconds in real time.

Shepard finds a way to activate the Crucible, but it doesn't destroy the Repears (it's incomplete); it only weakens them for a very short time.

Shepard finds a way off the citadel, signals Joker for a pickup and calls an emergency summit with the leaders of all the races in the Normandy War room. There's a poignant moment where Shepard asks after the whereabouts and health of the two team members who fell beside him in London, but there's been no word.

Shepard organizes the largest offensive in galactic history to hit and destroy the Repears while their defences are weak. HERE, finally, all of the decisions the player made through the game, all the assets he collected have a discernible effect on the outcome. We see exciting battle scenes where the Krogan ramraid reaper ships and pull down crippled destroyers, we see captain Kirrahe's special tactics team crippling another with explosires, we see Geth Primes tearing Reaper husks to pieces with mechanical precision -- in short, we see all of our acquired battle assets turning the tide, or failing to do so, depending on the degree of our investment throughout the game, exactly as it should always have been.

In the climactic scene the Normandy attacks Harbinger one-on-one with Shepard manning a turret.

In this final attack, numerous outcomes can occur. Depending on past decisions, your entire team can die, including Shepard. Or the heroes can prevail. Happy endings and blue babies abound!

The End.

Modifié par Regan Cousland, 17 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[BGuppy]

Assuming we're stuck with Star Child, and the abrupt tonal/thematic departure it represents, I think the following could be seen as universally desirable in a DLC.

1. More clarity/less confusion. Dead squad mates getting off the Normandy, the inexplicable nature of the explosions and the implications of them (which has lead to the charges of SPACE MAGIC), Joker fleeing the battle, how Shepard could possibly have survived, etc. You may have wanted speculation and discussion and debate. Instead you got confusion and what appear on the surface to be either glaring loopholes or outright laziness, which leads us to...

2. Better production values. Presumably your hearts were in the right place with the Star Gazer denouement, but it looked like something out of a game from 1997.

3. An opportunity to question the Star Child, or reject the Star Child's assertions. Possibly with a sufficient paragon/renegade/reputation. The Star Child, as the "Reaper Commander" (more or less), is an antagonist, and as such inherently untrustworthy. For Shepard to meekly accept its conclusions at face value after only a minute or two of conversation is a violation of Shepard's character (Paragon OR Renegade). This opens to the door to...

4. More potential resolutions. After being promised "No A, B, C" we were handed more or less exactly that. Even if you're married to the idea of "All Roads lead to Rome" in terms of Shepard's death/sacrifice (and the wake-up easter egg suggests you're not), there are more triumphant/cathartic ways to demonstrate the cessation of the conflict we've spent three games resolving than a mystical explosion and a crash on Gilligan's Planet. Bioware has trotted out some excellent cinematics for The Old Republic. You've shown you know how to handle pathos and resolution in games like Baldur's Gate 2 and Dragon Age Origins. You know how to do this.

5. While I don't think a lengthy denouement featuring "Where are they now" for every single character in the series is necessary or even desirable, I think giving us a glimpse of their role in the final struggle, and a REACTION from them to Shepard's sacrifice, is critical in establishing closure. All we've got at the moment is them stumbling off the Normandy, grinning like buffoons, and it feels tonally bizarre.

[RunicDragons]

Indoctrination theory. More closure, less forced decisions, less plot holes, explain a bit more. Do something similar as the end of DA:O

Then make the REAL ending and end the trilogy with a bang!

[Chronor]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Give us those 16 definitive endings you guys promised us. Have some me positive, have some me neutral, have some be bad, have some be bittersweet in depressing.

This.

As much as I appreciate Jessica wanting feedback, I have to ask, what was BW doing in the first place with respect to the ending controversy?

There's been numerous posts in the forums with constructive feedback.  Doesn't BW have the resources to go through those posts, especially with all the money they've made in pre-orders?  How about going back to the start of development of ME3 and the press releases that promised different endings, i.e., 16?  BW has had a good writing team.  Are you telling us that they could not figure out 16 different endings?  If so, then why were the promises made?

[RedShft]

Personally, I would just like an ending that didn't feel rushed. Also one that didn't feel conflicted. Before Shepard walks into the beam you hear communications between two soldiers (to the extent of) "Did anyone make it to the beam?", "No, we were all wiped out". This created some dissonance, which was amplified by the fact that the first few lines from Anderson while on the citadel didn't sound like his voice.

After this, I was a bit confused as to what the black wisps on the edge of the screen was. Is Shepard under the influence of the reapers? That's what I assumed. Also, I wasn't entirely sure why TIM had the ability to control Shepard in the way he did, that forced Shepard to shoot Anderson. Was this because of the research that Cerberus had on small scale reaper control?

One small thing in the scene where Anderson dies, and Shepard collapses was a bit odd. Shepard starts bleeding profusely, collapses, and then ascends the elevator. When Shepard wakes up, the blood is dried and back to the original look when he/she first got on the Citadel.

When talking to the VI kid, and first taking in the decisions, it was a bit overwhelming to have all these choices, and not be able to talk to the VI again. The first time I played through, I was confused about which ending was which way, so I guessed. I ended up getting the wrong ending (one I didn't mean to choose). I would prefer if I could talk to the VI again ( I looked back and didn't see any talk indicator ) or have each choice be labeled in a logical way. Colors don't help, they were misleading given Shepards motivations to destroy the Reapers. Destroy and Control should be flipped in Color.

After this, things get more confusing. In every ending, the reapers are essentially defeated (I guess?). No obvious difference is explained. You then see the Normandy fleeing, and crew step out. There is no indication of how they got there, not even simple radio chatter with the Normandy attempting to pick up Shepard or the Crew.

Lastly, in the Destroy ending, with the requisite EMS, you see a soldier with N7 take a breath as to indicate that Shepard is still alive. I'm not sure if this was intentional, was this supposed to mean Shepard lived? If so, why does it look like Shepard is surrounded by concrete rubble (ie. On Earth) rather than metal. Even so, the citadel was blowing up, so presumably even if Shepard was alive and actually on the Citadel she/he would have died in the explosion. The significance of this clip is not clear. Is this Shepard? Where is Shepard?

Overall, the ending felt rushed. It needs more explanation, and more variety in end types. I do not wish to tell you how to write the ending, but I would appreciate it if there was an ending where Shepard clearly lived. I do not need closure, I need explanation please. A revised ending with the VI kid elaborating would be a start and welcome.