7052 réponses à ce sujet

[TBaginz]

It should be somewhat based off of more decisions the player made in previous games. Like the collector base or something.

[seph22]

No matter what you make pay attention to THIS
i have no reason to replay ME1 or ME2 duo ME3 endings there is no variety at all

I don't care what kind of endings you create but give us a real choices instead of the current ending which is basically has no meaning and turn me off from the series

[VibrantYacht]

Hmm... Probably too late for my suggestions.
I already said multiple times that I would have preferred the story stick to the original plot. Of course, it seems too late to do that as I said. So... that being said... I'm not entirely sure *what* is realistically possible. Because of that I honestly am not sure what to say. But thank you for listening and giving this opportunity to the fans.

[Jitawa]

Machines Are Us wrote...


The dreams. Why does my Shepard have nightmares over the death of a single child? Surely there would be more traumatic things they have experienced? Like letting a team member die on Virmire, having parents murdered (colonist), seeing humans liquified (ME2)? Yet you force our Shepard to care about a single death amongst billions for no obvious reason.

I hadn't thought about that.  But if your Shep is a sole survivor, I would suspect "Akuze" and everyone that depends on you dying around you while you somehow live is a much larger event in terms "haunting" you than complete strangers you have no connection to dying when you had no chance of helping them.

[Typhon1388]

The game was fantastic overall and before I get into any criticisms I'd like to say a very well done of crafting an epic trilogy!

Aside from not being able to track quest items I have no real issues with the game before the London mission.

Wall of text incoming!

Lack of Reaper interaction
We usually get to speak to a Reaper directly once in a Mass Effect game. I
had hoped their history would be gleamed from direct conversations with them
rather than exposed all at once at the end. So as the credits rolled I was disappointed
that the only one we spoke to was the Rannoch Reaper especially since he
mentioned the Reapers spoke of Sheppard. I really wanted more details and confrontations
with them directly. I would at least like to have had one conversation with
Harbinger.

No "Normandy moment"
I mentioned this in a previous post but its relevant here. When the Reapers
rushed down towards the beam I was certain Joker was going to dive through the
atmosphere in the Normandy and take them out as they landed to save Hammer
team. Reaper venerability when landing or taking off from the surface is
mentioned in the codex I believe. After taking the full Harbinger laser I
thought it would loom over Sheppard and that’s when the rescue would happen but
it just left without incident. It would have been great to see the Normandy
take out Harbinger. 

The reason for Reaper existence
It's getting a little cliché now but the premise that they harvest advanced civilisations
to prevent the rise of a genocidal synthetic life form was completely out of
left field and contradictory. I understand the synthetics against organics
theme was a persistent in the series but in my play through this was put to bed
on Rannoch when the Geth and Quarians where united. This coupled with EDI's
developed personality pushed my rationality towards the conclusion that now the
Galaxy was truly united against the Reapers. I feel they would have been better
off left as a mysterious Lovecraftian menace than the rational provided. All I
could think about was why the Reapers didn't just harvest synthetic life, warn
the organics against creating them and then leave again. That would have taken
a whole lot less effort on their part.

The Catalyst
I really feel that using a child to represent it took away a lot of the drama
and tension from what should have been the pinnacle of the trilogy. A member of
the race which created the Reapers hooked into machinery in the Project
Overlord fashion would have had a lot more impact and conveyed the desperation that
forced them into this solution.

Synthesis ending
With all the effort put into the series to ground it in fringe science I felt
this one stuck out like a sore thumb. A pulse of energy than fundamentally
changes the structure of all life? How did this evolution remove the threat of
synthetics? It is entirely possible that this new form of life would create new
synthetic life thus requiring the return of the Reapers. This plays into my grievances
with the reason for the Reaper's existence.

The fleeing Normandy
It has been question many times on these forums about why the Normandy was
fleeing. This just doesn't fit with Joker's character. He charged at Sovereign during
the end of ME1 and took on the Collector Cruiser which destroyed the original
Normandy without wavering in ME2. I do not believe he would retreat from a
coloured light pulse or the battle for Earth.

Brevity of the ending
From the last action you can take with the controller I feel the ending was
very short for the game that was closing off the trilogy. The mythology and
lore of Mass Effect rivals or surpasses that of the "Metal Gear
Solid" saga. Guns of the Patriots had an ending sequence 60 to 90 minutes
long. Did the "Commander Sheppard" saga not deserve such a thorough
and lengthy send off or at least one that left no questions? You can espouse
that the mystery is part of the fun idea but this is fundamentally flawed. If I
wanted to be left in the dark, I wouldn't have bought the game.


Thanks for reading and great job on the game overall!

Modifié par Typhon1388, 17 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[Kabraxal]

What could be done better:

- More scenes between Shepard and the LI,especially if they are ME2 LIs. While they are good, I would like some more small banter and scenes about the relationship.
- More neutral choice options
- Epilogues for the end if it is kept as is... preferably a reveal for Indoctrination Theory with a couple of hours of more playtime though
- more varied collectibles instead of just models
- the ability to use the poker table
- more familiar places. There should have been a lot more scenes from places we had been to form ME1 and 2... it helps feel familiar with the universe instead of having to acclimate to mostly new areas all over.
- more conversations with the dialogue wheel with squadmates.

Things that were done exceptionally well... just to be fair:

- squad banter, especially inter squad conversations, were brilliant. Wouldn't mind more of this at all.
- Weapon customisation... like having choices.
- the natural feel to different choices from ME1/ME2 through most of the game.
- the tough choices... I almost shot Mordin in the back. LOOK WHAT YOU ALMOST MADE ME DO!!!!!!
- death scenes for squadmates. They never felt forced.
- Spectre Terminal... though I wouldn't mind seeing more on screen, having some nice options open up if you are paying attention is nice.
- Combat was a nice mix of ME1/ME2. Powers feel better balanced than in 2.
- Levelling system... my biggest grip in ME2 outside of the VS being Horizoned was not having a robust levelling system. Mix this with all the customising options and I was happy with ME3's better system.

The game was awesome and I am happy with it. However, at the very least I would like ending epilogues to see how my crew and the galaxy were affected by what I did and my differing choices.

[thatguy212]

1. Get rid of Morinth's death, its stupid and a slap in the face to anyone who picked her, and all that needs to change is a banshee's name tag, i'd personally change it so she's a war asset as well as a few points for some "volunteers" she's recruited
2. Redo the Jacob romance, its done so painfully bad, she wants to name the kid after the woman she stole jacob away from? really?
3. The endings, redo them with less plotholes and explain/remove joker escaping with the normandy and for sure remove the part where he looks behind him
4. Needs real epilogue that state what happens with most of the major characters

[Funker Shepard]

Have to agree with some of the others, the new journal is terribad, not sure why you had to change the excellent old one? Surely not just because of the manual tab?

Aedan276 wrote...

 An image of Shepard and his LI looking into the horizon while buring Reaper carcasses fall is my version of a "Perfect" ending, although I believe sacrificial options should remain available for people who prefer them. 

I think that's it right there...

[Myrmedus]

My suggestions will be kept to the game's ending - and any relevant plot threads - simply because this alone will bear alot of suggestions. In addition, I feel suggestions for the rest of the game would be fairly nitpicky considering how good it is (and I'll just edit the coalesced.bin if I have to! xD)

My ideas for the endings will entirely depend on what BW is willing to change - essentially how deep in the plot they're willing to make changes - and I'll order them in 3 categories based upon that:

- (I) Changing the Reaper's Motives (Longest)

- (II) Shepard is Indoctrinated

- (III) No Change Until Very End

(I) Changing the Reaper's Motives

Firstly, I need to explain how and why I'd change their motives:

I personally feel the best solution overall for the integrity of the final stages of the plot would be a bit of a change to the Reaper's motives. Nothing significant would change in the game or plot until the very end. I personally find their current motives don't really support their actions very well, even allowing a leap of logic.

When I was playing through ME1 and 2 I was constantly trying to work out the Reapers. Ever since the discussion with the Sovereign it didn't seem to me they were doing what they're doing for conventional reasons, like the reasons mentioned by Vigil or Shepard at times: slaves, resources, power etc. To me, a species as powerful as the Reapers wouldn't really need to stoop to this cycle to get any of those things: slaves could be "built" rather than captured (synthetic), resources could be gotten significantly faster on their own and they already have a huge amount of power. No, to me it always rung true that they had some deeper, some grander purpose for doing what they did.

Quite early on I did believe it'd be something on the level of galactic structure, or how life behaves etc. and I thought perhaps it was about organics and something that happens - or something they do - when they become too advanced. Considering Sovereign's words, my belief was that organics would become a danger not only to the Reapers but to themselves and possibly the galaxy as a whole.

This seemed to be a running theme through the series: Cerberus experiments, galactic wars, the state of Tuchunka, the Krogan using moons as weapons and finally the scar on Mnemosyne from a weapon's single blast - even though this blast was in defence against a Reaper, this kind of firepower in the hands of organic life that is led by emotions and impulse is quite a scary thing. Organic life is shown to be volatile but up until the point of the extinction cycle it is contained somewhat. However, as technology gets better and more far reaching, I thought the Reapers would argue we end up destroying everything - that we become a threat to everything, and this is why they cull us each time we reach a certain apex. This is why we represent "chaos".

I would've preferred this motive. I feel this motive would've kept them feeling as an antagonist but having a damn good reason for what they do. It would've made their actions more believable and make more sense. It would've made any ending decision perplexing, because even though we were enemies you could see their point - that they would be trying to balance the virtues of life and the future of the galaxy/universe. And I also believe it would've led into their origins very well, that they came from a war on an intergalactic level that saw advanced organics spiral out of control, that they've seen this first-hand.

Finally, one additional quick change, and that is I would remove the Catalyst as a sentient lifeform and the master of the Reapers: I believe the Reapers need to remain individual lifeforms as their grandeur is stunted when it is suggested they are 'slaves' or part of a hive consciousness. This can still allow for TIM's "Control" plot, it simply wouldn't be documented that there is a "master sentience" in control of the Reapers already (TIM would be aiming to become that). In the ending, I would thus replace the Catalyst with Harbinger. presenting a hologram of himself in similar fashion to Arrival. The line of conversation would be similar to the Catalyst's (with the new motive), it wouldn't be an overtly antagonistic conversation, but it would be Harbinger presenting their arguments rather than the Catalyst.

So, apologies for the wall of text, but after those changes I would have the final conversation (with Harbinger) playout more or less the same way as the Catalyst's conversation does now. I would add additional details, however - essentially, more options on the "left side of the wheel" - and depending on your choices throughout the game you would have the following ending choices available in order of most restricted to least:

No EMS requirement - Crucible becomes damaged, Fleets overwhelmed:

- Give Up (you read it right): Understand the need for the Reaper's actions and that galactic life is in peril as long as organics are able to advance without check - this could also lead, if you wanted, to debate over whether Shepard becomes indoctrinated or decides of his own free will! All current advanced organic life will become Reapers.

- Destroy: Same as current ending, keep this as a pyrrhic victory.

4000 EMS - Crucible undamaged:

- Destroy: Undamaged Crucible means it can be directed - only Reaper tech will be destroyed.

- Join: Similar to the current Control ending: Shepard will join the ranks of the Reapers at the agreement that they will leave and reconsider their plans based upon how the future pans out.

Two Allied Species (excluding Turians, including Geth):

- Convince: Convince Harbinger, using evidence of current alliegances, that organic life will control itself. Reapers will leave on condition that Citadel's Mass Relay is left activated (so they can invade if the situation turns hairy). Allying with the Geth will be a requirement to show how organics are able to ally even with synthetics.

Three Allied Species (excluding Turians, including Geth):

- Convince: The Reapers will now simply leave the galaxy all together (ie. go to another galaxy).

EMS will also act as a bargaining chip in your exchange with Harbinger: the larger your force, the more back-up you'll have in the negotiation.

(II) Shepard is Indoctrinated

This will be the shortest section: if Shepard is indoctrinated then I will defer to you guys to craft your own endings. Whether this was the intended plot thread or not, it's given you a second chance

The only thing I would recommend is that no matter how the endings happen there should be an argumentative or "Convince" option. It should have high requirements to pull off but it should be available.

(III) No Change Until Very End

If the Catalyst will remain and the Reaper's motives stay as they are, the changes to the ending I'd suggest would be quite similar to those described in the first section except for some obvious differences:

- "Give Up" removed.

- "Join" becomes full "Control" (like in-game)

- "Convince" will remain largely the same except obviously Shepard's reasoning will be different, now arguing how organics can manage rather than how they aren't a threat.

(IV) Final Changes and Thoughts

In all cases I would say the "Convince" option should always use EMS as a bargaining chip. Finally, all endings should be more fleshed out - they should include at minimum:

- Reinforcement of the reasons for the choice.

- The consequences (both positive and negative) - ie. if you Destroy the Reapers, it should be hinted at how their assertions may have been right; if you Join/Control the Reapers, it should be shown what Shepard's influence accomplishes etc.

- What becomes of living companions (both ME2 and ME3 + Wrex!)

- What becomes of Shepard.

That's all, folks! Thanks for listening.

Edit: I also second the question as to why you replaced ME2's journal/quest system with ME3's? ME2's was fine and significantly better in ways!

Modifié par Myrmedus, 17 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Rune-Chan]

Jitawa wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...


The dreams. Why does my Shepard have nightmares over the death of a single child? Surely there would be more traumatic things they have experienced? Like letting a team member die on Virmire, having parents murdered (colonist), seeing humans liquified (ME2)? Yet you force our Shepard to care about a single death amongst billions for no obvious reason.

I hadn't thought about that.  But if your Shep is a sole survivor, I would suspect "Akuze" and everyone that depends on you dying around you while you somehow live is a much larger event in terms "haunting" you than complete strangers you have no connection to dying when you had no chance of helping them.

Exactly what I was getting at.

In my first ME3 playthrough I screwed up and it meant the Geth were free but the Quarians were destroyed and Tali commited suicide. Knowing that would devastate my Shepard a thousand times more than a single child you have no connection to being vaporized. Knowing that as a direct cause of your actions a close friend decided they didn't want to live any more, that'd cause you nightmares.

[masta_ye]

 Good new first or bad news?  Let's start with the bad news ...

1.  The ending in itself, taken at face value with no hidden meaning, is not horrible.  I always had the sense that it would come down to some form of self sacrifice for Shepard.  It also the only way that Bioware can claim that this is the end of Shepard's story.  

My problem with the ending is lack of continuity and closure for the rest of your squad.  Let's be honest, there are way, and I mean WAY too many holes and problems and questions with the Normandy escape/crash sequence.  There are more comrehensive lists elsewhere, but off the top of my head (What are they fleeing from?  How did they know to flee? How did squad members get back on the ship?  If relays exploded, how is there another plant in Sol that is habitable?  Why do they not look sad that Shepard is gone? Why is it that all endings get this generic cut scene?  If you want us to imagine and fill in the blanks, how do we fill in the blanks for 3 (or 6 or 17 however you want to view it) seperate scenarios and end at the same answer?  You have in a sense made my story, into the same as everyone else's story.

It is the lack of continuity, and the seemingly identical ending states of the galaxy that completely backfires on any attempt of artistic expression with confrontation with the Starchild and the three choices.  You allowed me to beleive and witness that my choices mattered throughout the game ...  until the very end.

2. There should have been more consequences / fallouts from the various ways that you solve the games priority missions.  I get that it may not be worth it to come up with specific cinematics to depict terminus fleets helping you at the end, but the priority missions should be different.  For example, let's say Wrex dies, and Wreav leads the Krogan Hammer squad, he's arguably less effective, and maybe because of this on of your squadmates will die? Instead, the only perceivable difference in the game was if i got 500 war assets or 250.

3. Was hoping for a bit more exposure to your past squadmates in the ending sequence.  I thought that storylines and involvement were nicely placed throughout the game.  But it would have been nice to see the old gang from ME2 in action on the battlefield leading their own respective charges in parallel to your own advance towards the citadel.  This also give oppurntunity to mix up the ending a bit because of how you completed the priority missions.  Because wiping out Geth/Quarian may have weakend logitcs support enough that maybe Samara ends up dying etc.

4. Mission tracking was quite confusing.  I like the segmented updates that the ME2 system provided.

5. Sorry I keep coming back to the ending, but please flesh it out or add an epilogue of sorts (that takes priority missions choices and previous choices into account) I've tried to restart the game 3 times already, but got disheartened by the time I get to Mars (3 times!!) because of the minimal impact I would have in th end ...

Ok so onto the good things.

1. Combat and RPG elements of the game were well balanced.  Like the skills progression a lot more than in ME2.  Combat was well paced, I like the introduction of the rolling and dodging aspect of combat.  Boss Fights were fantastic.

2. Mood and pacing of the game was appropriate.  It definitely felt like a race against the clock.

3. The passive conversation that you can overhear in the game are really well done.

4. Nice job with Tali and Garrus!  I was always a humanoid (Ash, Liara, Miranda) type of guy.  But I'm glad Tali and Garrus found some love elsewhere.  Nice touch, makes the whole crew feel more alive, like they think on their own, and are not just waiting for you to talk to them.  The same goes to the random coversation that the crew memeber have with each other, that was a nice tough along the same vein.  (But on the flip side, this just adds to the frustration of the ending lacking closure for squadmates, because after 5 years, I actually care about what happends to them)

5. Congratulations on creating one of the greatest gaming moments in my gaming career.  You have successfully fleshed out a living world that I have come to familiarize myself and care about for the past 5 years.  You have created squadmates and memories that are etched into my memory and can be recalled as if it really happened to me in real life.  All that hard work culminated itself in the moment where the starchild asked to make 1 of the 3 choices at the end.  For those 5 minutes, I truly felt I was in the game, feeling what Shepard was feeling, recalling memories that he would have recalled, and weighing options and beleif systems that have introduced and re-enforced over the past 5 years.  That was a true moment of immersion, and a feeling that I will never forget.

Suggestions:

Which brings me to my last and final point.  The Devs and Writers at Bioware have created such a richly layered world, that even in making a disappointing ending, fans were able to pick up on pieces of lore and past history to constuct the Indoc Theory.  I can only assume that at this point it is only fan speculation and not Bioware's true intention.  But at this point, seeing the "evidence" that was laid out, even if it is 100% coincedental, shouldn't you just run with it?

In a sense, have you not stumbled upon the holy grail of gaming experiences.  If Shepard was being manipulated by Harbinger, we as fans were sitting front row experiencing the process ourselves.  Is this not what everygame should strive for?  To be as real to the fan as possible, and to have the fan so emotionally invested that we beleive it is me making the choices and not Shepard?

Accident or not, I think you should make it stick.  To me, this was the gaming equivalent of "The Sixth Sense" or "Unusual Suspects".  Take it as a lesson.  Go with it and flesh out the current ending.  Use it in future Bioware games.  If you don't, I'm sure other Developers are following this and taking notes and will use it to their advantage.  Don't let their sucess be derived of something that is being brushed off as a coincedence and fan speculation.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

[Ham Solo]

Following Dr. Eve and Kai Leng is incredibly frustrating. It feels scripted like nothing else.
Hitting them with the widow, revenant, any powers, and seeing how they shrug it off just like that... The only one with fast recharging shields was the shadow broker, and he had a pretty big device for that.

[SIRIUS_N7]

I would try to keep things simple, I respect everyone's ideas but some look way too complex to do. It's just my opinion though.

I would suggest just adding more options during the conversation with the catalyst, make Shepard more active, convince the catalyst that those three options are not the only way (that would feel more like Mass Effect, as we could persuade through paragon or renegade options - a good idea is that, provided the player made the previous choice, to give the example that Quarians and Geth found peace, so not necessarily synthetics would kill organics again). And in the end convince the catalyst to retreat the reapers for good or use the crucible to destroy them (using the same video sequences of the ending, you don't need to render any new sequence). Hopefully you could get rid of the parts involving the destruction of the mass relays for these new options, but if not, I guess we can live with it as long as you give the explanation and closure we need (next paragraph).

Then at the end you can give some sort of epilogue with Mark Meer's/Jennifer Hale's voice narrating in the background, giving that closure we need, explaining what happened to the races in the aftermath (even if the relays are destroyed), and what happened to the most important characters and love interest. You don't need to bring every voice actor again, you just need Shepard's voice as in the Genesis interactive comic. This can be perfectly done with sequences of the game's engine, just like the final sequence of Mass Effect 2 where you see Shepard moving through the Normandy with the crew around.

If you could do "something like that" it would be simple, and I bet it would be a lot more satisfying.

Modifié par SIRIUS_N7, 17 mars 2012 - 05:50 .

[tehcate]

There probably isn't much that I can say that hasn't already been covered tenfold in this thread, but I felt I should at least add my voice to the numbers.

I've been a Mass Effect fan for a few years now, and I've loved every game, including 3. I've grown attached to the universe and characters in a way I never thought I could, and I'll even admit that I cried like a baby for most of the ending sequences in the this game.

Until Anderson died. After that I was just confused.

Where did my squadmates go? How the HELL did Garrus get aboard the Normandy when he was with me when Harbinger blasted us to bits on Earth?

Why did Shepard so readily accept the Starchild's explanation of order and chaos in the galaxy? She spent the entire game railing against the Illusive Man saying the exact same things and then in two seconds she's ready to give it all up? I don't think so.

Shepard has to die no matter what? That felt a bit like a forced tragedy. Why don't the war assets come into play at all here? No consequences for recruiting 90% of the galaxy or 10%? What about the lack of Salarian support if you chose to cure the genophage? That didn't seem to matter at all. Just examples, but I felt there were a lot of loose ends and little details that could have contributed to the ending in some way that were just tossed aside.

The Mass Relays exploding in *every ending* makes very little practical sense. Why wasn't there another option? What happened to all the other races that are now stranded in the Sol system? It's probably already mentioned that at the very least the Turians and Quarians would starve to death.

To sum up, an epilogue that ties up some loose ends would be nice. I'd like to think that Shepard's LI would go looking for her if they survived, and what happens to the rest of the races? Do they rebuild? Are there more wars? Does Shepard get a funeral or move to some sunny beach with her LI?

Closure. The ending really just raised more questions than it answered and for a third part in a trilogy that's really not okay.

I hope this made sense. I, like a lot of others, have become heavily emotionally invested in these games over the years and we'd love to see some actual direct reward or consequence for our choices leading up to this final moment. Let us know that the things we did as Commander Shepard actually mattered.

Modifié par tehcate, 17 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[dewayne31]

I agree the ending need to be fixed especially bout normandy that made no sense at all. and the fact our squadmates with with us at the end suddenly were on the normandy.And add this just because i agree with it as someone stated in a email to me. as goodwill thing, add some the cut content back.

[circe]

For me (and it seems like for a great many people) that little elevator ride was where all the problems started. I understand the need to make an ending that will make a lasting impact, and one that is worthy of such a fantastic series. Maybe it's just me thinking too small, but what is wrong with an old-fashioned throwdown with the Reapers? What's wrong with the Crucible actually being a weapon and the game ending with an epic battle involving everyone you made an impact on over the three games? I would have loved to see that, everyone rallying behind Shepard to take control of their destiny back from the Reapers. But those are just my thoughts on the story itself. You're the creators and developers and I'm pretty much just happy I get to play in the sandbox with you.

The only thing I ask is that you make a promise, you keep it and if you're going to push the envelope of your own story make damn sure you execute it properly. That's really where it all fell flat. Really flat. The whole series was based on choice and the impact of those choices. Shepard wasn't just any video game character; she was mine. And I loved seeing the consequences of my choices in the events that played out during the game. But the ending (I see it as only one real ending; different colors and vague philosophical differences hardly count) completely negated everything I had done up to that point. What did it matter that I cured the genophage? So what if the Geth and the Quarians were going to live side by side on Rannoch? I let some bizarre little child call the shots, the Relays exploded, and the Normandy ended up stranded on Gilligan's planet. The ending really felt half done and completely incongruous with the spirit of Mass Effect. Show me that what I did really did have an impact the same way you did in the other 99% of the series. However you want to accomplish that I leave up to you.

[Synthauti]

If you got through that monster-sized post I made in the ending thread, some of this may sound familiar. Still, I feel it's worth mentioning again in this specific thread simply because I think that those points I made were valid. I've skipped including my opinions on how the Galaxy at War stuff should be implemented, as I suspect that you either won't be able to change the entirety of the last mission to account for them by this point, but if you're interested in digging that up, the remainder of what I have to say on the issue is on page 76 of the endings thread.

The following is a copy-paste of what I would like to see changed:

To be honest, I'm not disappointed by the lack of a happy ending. I just don't like how everything about the ending seems artificially directed to give us a "bittersweet" impression that doesn't really come across all that well. It's clunky, and the holes make it a lot worse.

Assuming I couldn't restructure the whole ending to be more like the Suicide Mission (and I'm reasonably convinced that you folks aren't going to have the resources to do that) I'd replace the Synthesis ending with an ending where Shepard pretends to go along with the idea of controlling the Reapers, then has them all kill one another or fly into a nearby star. His consciousness is preserved as a lone AI in control of the Citadel that can never experience life with his friends as he once would have. He'd be present, able to talk to people, but unable to hold his love interest again or even simply adventure forth in a body that could feel or taste anything. His sacrifice is meaningful, he doesn't technically die, he saves everybody including synthetics, but it's still sad in its own way. Seems like a fair compromise. (Note: the reason behind why I feel that the Synthesis ending specifically is bad is explained in much greater detail in the original post.)

The Normandy would still be somewhere around Earth. Joker doesn't turn into a coward, and Shepard's squad mates don't immediately abandon him (or spontaneously come back to life).

If the Relays being destroyed must happen, we'd get a scene where the engineers from the Crucible wordlessly open a data file received via a QEC. The contents of the file contain an image of a Mass Relay, and the word "Conduit" appears over top (because somebody somewhere must have tried to reverse engineer the thing after realizing that it was a real relay). The engineers have just created the most ambitious piece of technology in the galaxy; surely they must feel that they can take a crack at building a new relay network, and they can direct the survivors of other systems with QECs to help speed the process along.

And of course, an epilogue would help. Are the Krogan forces ransacking the place, or are they helping salvage Turian wreckage? Will the Migrant Fleet repurpose one of their liveships to help grow levo-amino food while Earth recovers? Are the Rachni helping make repairs, or is Aralakh team getting Grunt drunk on what ryncol they brought with them? Will we see Han'Gerrel shaking hands with a Geth platform with Zaal'Koris laughing at the sight, or will those two be arguing with one another over something else? I'm beyond convinced that little wordless snippets like these that can change depending on the actions you take would have resulted in dramatically improved fan reactions, especially after what was promised and expected. Dialogue would be nice, too, but the imagery would be better than nothing.

And that's about it. Hopefully you guys are still reading these posts by the time I finish writing (EDIT: and editing) this. Maybe everything I just said was completely asinine, or perhaps I'm just crazy and expected more than I should have. Still, you asked for feedback, and considering the ~700 hours of enjoyment I've gotten out of this series, posting feedback is the least I could do.

As an alternative to those changes to the ending, I'd also prefer the final choice and the conversation we had with the Catalyst to get cut. Frankly, it'd still be better than what we got. The Crucible just "works," and the Reapers remain enigmatic as they all die. It's not the best option and the Galaxy at War mechanic becomes marginally less useful (though it's not a big loss seeing as it's all pretty much just flavor text) but at least the story ends on a note that actually has some weight to it and isn't riddled with plot and logic holes... assuming that Joker et. al. aren't suddenly travelling along the relay network again. An epilogue would still be an invaluable addition.

[Freyzer]

Up front, I'd like to say that the concept of the ending you created was fine with me.  I also understand that the endings had to be relatively similar if you plan to make a ME4.  However, the execution was bad because it left too many unanswered questions and actually created big plot holes with no satisfying explanation.

Up until the very end, I thought the game was amazing.  The last 10 minutes or so are problematic because there is no closure and there are huge plot holes.  This is the end of a trilogy, not the end of the first or second game in a trilogy.  Cliffhanger endings can make sense in those sitations.  However, the end of a trilogy should wrap up the plot and answer major unanswered questions.  The ending should also make sense and give a sense of closure to the fans.  At the end of a trilogy, the fans should actually be able to understand how it ended, not leave the actual end open to speculation and plot holes.  
These questions must be answered in a full and complete ending:

1. Why did the Normandy fly away from battle to get stranded on a deserted planet?
           1a. Why did they leave in the first place
            1b. How did your crewmembers, which were with you 5 minutes before in your squad, get to the normandy in time for their departure?  Why would they leave an active combat zone if they were healthy and 6 feet away from the portal to the Citadel to help Sheppard?
2. What happened to the fleet in orbit?  Did any ships survive?
           2a. How could turians and quarians survive on earth with no food source...especially if the quarian fleet was destroyed?
3. Was it all a hallucination/indoctrination, or did the ending sequence actually happen?  This doesn't need to be answered in every ending, but at least for the red ending if high enough EMS points.
           3a. Are the reapers actually defeated?
           3b. Did Shepard actually defeat the reapers, or did someone else finish the job?
            3c. Was the ghost-kid at the end real?

Modifié par Freyzer, 17 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[zombie_Zero]

 The endings needs to be as dynamic and take as many variables into account as ME3 imported into ME2.  I see different stages of the ending, to show the RESULT of your CHOICES. 
things to change/scrap
1. the normandy stays on earth
2. the starchild is aborted and cut from the game
3. the relays are destroyed only if fighting from the 1k to 2k ending. the "F*CK YOU REAPERS" ending


Stage 1war assets determine reaper damage.  

1k to 2k, earth destroyed, fleet destroyed. Harvenger destroyed the normandy personalty.  Landing parties are shot down (no support, only landing party on earth is shepherd)

 2k to 3k, earth heavily damaged, fleet decimated with 90% casualities but victorious. Joker kamikazi's the normandy to take out Harvenger.  Landing parties crash land, Krogan vheicals and elcor only heavy support that survives the landing. survivors join the fight. destroyed firewalker and mako vheicles litter the approach to harvenger. 

3k to 3.5k, earth damaged, fleat survives with 75% casualities,  Loose half the landing ships, Geth colossus, Elcor gun mounts, krogan ground troops lay down cover fire as you approach harvenger, geth hoppers and solarian snipers provide sniper cover, Volus bombing fleat shot down by harvenger on approach.  Firewalker and makos are destroyed by harvenger as they race ahead of shepherd, forming cover to leapfrog to get to the beam.  Normany takes out Harvenger with the thanix cannon with concentrated fire from every fleat's cruisers ala soverign from ME1. 

3.5k to 4.5k, Earth damaged, fleet survives with 50% casualities, Thanix cannons are the opening volley which decimate the reaper fleet.  Loose 25% the landing ships, Geth colossus, Elcor gun mounts, krogan ground troops lay down cover fire as you approach harvenger, geth hoppers and solarian snipers provide sniper cover, Volus bombing takes our 3 legs on harvenger and his main beam gun, firewalkers and mako's provide covering fire and take out 1 of harvenger's beam cannons.  Harvenger destroyed on your approach to the light by the fleet before normandy gets in range to take a shot, you never get hit with the beam.

4.5k to 5k+, earth survives, fleet survives with 25% casualties, Thanix cannons are the opening volley which decimate the reaper fleet.  Loose 2 the landing ship out of thousands, Geth colossus, Elcor gun mounts, krogan ground troops lay down cover fire as you approach harvenger, geth hoppers and solarian snipers provide sniper cover, Volus bombing takes our 3 legs on harvenger and his main beam gun, firewalkers and mako's provide covering fire and take out 3 of harvenger's beam cannons.  Geth primes and pyros provide danger close fire support, wrex and grunt charge a brute together and beat it down.  Harvenger destroyed on your approach to the light by the fleet before normandy gets in range to take a shot, you never get hit with the beam.


Stage 2 aboard the citadel
confrontation with the illusive man.  The damage you've dealt to cerebus over the past t3 games adds up here. screw them over at every turn, only face basic troopers.  Help them, give them the colector's base, you face several phantoms with a few atlas mechs, which you can take control of and have the conversation from behind the controls of an atlas mech.  

The starchild is aborted and cut from the game.

stage 3 results

you get a mesage from each fleat that survived the fight and a 30 minute pre rendered cutscigne   segmented by your choices of how the turians, krogan, solarians get along, if eve is alive or dead, wrex or wreav, geth quarian or both, volus and elchor and hanar, and finaly  one final choice in the game, will you marry your love interest?

Modifié par zombie_Zero, 17 mars 2012 - 05:59 .

[Niraven]

I just wanted to add my voice to the suggestions regarding the additional options for the endings. Squadmates who were on the ground with you during the Harbinger beam suddenly being on the Normandy made no sense. Joker retreating after repeatedly telling Shepard he'd stick with her made no sense. It would have been better ending it after the Anderson interaction and just having the crucible work imo.

And sure, the happy ending with my FemShep, Kaidan, and their superspectre biotic Canadian lovebabies wouldn't suck. But really, I just want closure to this game more than anything because I love this franchise that much.

[dewayne31]

dewayne31 wrote...

I agree the ending need to be fixed especially bout normandy that made no sense at all. and the fact our squadmates with with us at the end suddenly were on the normandy.And add this just because i agree with it as someone stated in a email to me. as goodwill thing, add some the cut content back. make ash avalible for femshep would help too.

[CDHarrisUSF]

Shortstuff820 wrote...

Just a quick clarification for people. Your Galactic Readiness has nothing to do with your EMS.

Yes, it most certainly does. Your Readiness Rating has nothing to do with your Total Military Strength, but it does determine your Effective Military Strength (which is what counts).

TMS * RR = EMS

Galactic Readiness through MP is a way to bypass a high enough EMS score. I got nearly 5000 EMS and got the "ultimate ending" without playing a second of multiplayer (4000 is the minimum required).

It is literally impossible to get "nearly 5000 EMS" without playing a second of multiplayer (or a supplemental experience like the iOS game). You're either lying or mistaken. We've gone through this in a very long and detailed thread analyzing all of the possible war assets in a giant spreadsheet. Just getting to nearly 4000 EMS would require a perfect run through the entire series. The 4000 EMS (8000 TMS) required for the "Shepard Lives" ending is thought to be slightly out of reach even then (from what I remember of the thread), at least until more assets are added in DLC.

Modifié par CDHarrisUSF, 17 mars 2012 - 05:50 .

[de3ex]

Sometimes keeping it simple is the best thing to do. Defeating the Reapers has always been our ultimate goal, keep it that way. Along with an epilogue or conclusion, an ending where my war assets, galactic readiness and paragon/renegade scores are factored into whether or not I defeat the Reapers would be just fine. Don't muddle the series up by making the ending too vague or ambiguous.

[Aramina]

Warning: Essay ahead.
I haven't had the chance to go through this whole thread, so I'm sure what I'll say has been said before, but these are my thoughts on the ending.

I do understand the desire for a "bittersweet" ending, but there is a fine line between bittersweet and just bitter. The whole game up to the end balanced this very well in my opinion. Yes, we had hope, but we still lost friends, watched homeworlds burn, lost almost entire species. What made all of this bittersweet and not just bitter? Hope. Even on those occasions when Shepard failed (what, you mean we're not invincible?), we still had the hope that, hey, there's still a chance to win this if we just pick ourselves back up and keep going!

The end of the game, unfortunately, was not bittersweet, it was a bitter end to an otherwise amazing game. There are several opinions on why this is. Personally, the plot holes by themselves are enough to make this a rather confusing end to the series. Some of the major ones I've been thinking of:

         1) The Mass Relay situation. Now, in the DLC Arrival we discovered that an exploding Mass Relay is enough to destroy an entire solar system. Most of the homeworlds we visited had one in their local system, Earth included. So, taking all of these established facts into consideration, no matter what we did Earth has been obliterated by the Mass Relay. All of the fleets in orbit are also destroyed. And every single solar system with a Mass Relay nearby has been destroyed.

Now, perhaps the Star Kid's solution did not make the relays explode, it simply "deactivated" them. Yes, in the cinematic it exploded, but I didn't see a solar-system-sized explosion. Perhaps whatever power was unleashed by the Citadel/Catalyst dampened the explosion. Even if this were the case, we can safely assume that Earth can no longer feed large populations after the Reaper attack. So, if this is the case, most of the fleets in orbit will probably starve to death. Turians and Quarians can't even eat any food that might be produced, and while not stated outright, I felt that it was most likely that the Quarians left their liveships near Rannoch (I doubt the Geth kept farms on the planet, so the Quarians would need them to feed their population until they established themselves). Thus, they would certainly starve, since they would only have whatever supplies are on their ships. To have any hope of survival, the fleets would have to hightail it out of the system to the nearest habitable worlds, hoping they don't run out of food first, and that when they do finally reach said worlds, that they will have enough time to plant food, hunt animals, etc. before the on-ship supply is depleted.

If you picked synthesis, you could say "oh, they don't need to eat anymore" (ignoring once again the exploding relays), which may or may not be true; we're not told anything at all about what exactly will happen with the synthesis choice. But for both of the other options, it's almost certain death for most of the galaxy.

         2) Star Kid's logic is full of plot holes, made worse by the fact that our Shepard suddenly becomes meek and submissive. This is not at all his/her established character; if Shepard just accepted things people told him/her, they never would have bothered to go investigate Saren in game 1. He/She would be sitting around on the Normandy, pissed off that a rogue Spectre got the better of them but unwilling to do anything about it. Shepard is not passive, and yet at the end we are given no chance to argue with Star Kid, or to even question him. If we did, there would certainly be a lot to say.

In some games people may indeed have destroyed either the Quarians or the Geth, but what about those of us who brokered peace? That is an obvious thing we would want to throw in Star Kid's face. "Look, you're wrong, the creations did not destroy the creator, they're helping them!" Even for those of us who did choose one side, the Geth made it very obvious they were not the instigators of the fight. They were not rebelling, they just wanted to survive. Why are we given no chance to tell Star Kid this?

Now, ignoring the first point, that still leaves us with some logical fallacies we are never given a chance to point out. To save us from being destroyed, you destroy us? Yes, supposedly the Reapers are the "vessels of civilizations", but try telling that to the species they killed to do that. Why kill the organics and not the machines? If Star Kid controls the Reapers, how do we even know he's telling the truth about their motives? What if they're really just afraid organics will make machines more powerful than them? And after all that, if Star Kid believes the cycle should be broken, why doesn't he command the Reapers himself? You know, since he just told us he's in charge of them.

And of course, the "Space Magic", synthesis. By simply changing the color of the explosion, it can fuse organic DNA into synthetics, and vice versa? Why does EDI become more synthetic in the end? You would think they would add organic components to her, since she's pure synthetic. How can this be done instantly, and without killing all the organics? How can it be done at all? I'm assuming (I have to because we're given no information on what
exactly this is) that this synthesis is based on Reaper tech, since it
originates from Star Kid. And again, if Star Kid is in charge of the Reapers, this is the absolute last thing we should want to happen; we're basically turning the entire galaxy into Saren/TIM. So...why does Shepard never question this at all?

         3) Joker leaving the battle. Why in the world does Joker run away from the last big stand of the galaxy? We know he's not a coward; he went with us in ME2 on what was supposed to be a suicide mission. He fought Sovereign in ME1. He also fought the Reaper on Rannoch. All of this was with far less at stake that what was now being fought for, his homeworld and the rest of the galaxy all hinged on this one battle. Now, maybe it was because of the explosion from the Citadel. But his very first thought on seeing this was "OMG run to the nearest relay and get out of here!"? The whole game was about the Catalyst saving the galaxy from the Reapers! Now it had finally activated! So why would he run away from it instead of staying to see if it worked? And all this is ignoring the face that at the very beginning of the battle, we were told very specifically, "There is no retreat." So, we're left to assume that not only did Joker defy direct orders, he abandoned his commander and the entire fleet right at the moment where everyone was waiting to see if the Catalyst would bring them victory?

         4) Magical teleporting crew members. In my game, I brought Garrus (my Shepard's LI) and Liara with me in the final battle. After getting hit with the Reaper beam, they were nowhere in sight. I was left to sadly assume they had died, but I couldn't even see their bodies to confirm this - they had vanished into thin air. So, I continued along to the end, picked my color (in my case it was green), and watched the ending cinematic. Joker and EDI step off the ship followed by...wait a second, is that Garrus?! So before Joker left the battle, he had time to go pick up Garrus from where we'd all been blasted. Yet he didn't check to see if Shepard was ok. Or pick her up too. Or did Garrus just learn how to teleport?

Now, maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe someone found him before my char woke up (very unlikely since no one was left standing). Maybe he woke up first. Whatever the case, at some point he was able to get up and walk around. Why didn't he, I dunno, finish the mission that was supposed to save the galaxy? Did he just go, "Well **** it, we're all dead, I'm not even going to bother to see if my LI Shepard is ok before taking off for the Normandy."? Even if I'd brought someone else with me, this would not have been in any of their characters to abandon a mission, especially one of this importance!

Perhaps this also wasn't what happened. Maybe he'd been buried under a pile of rubble and woke up after Shepard was already on the Citadel. He heard the communication between her/him and Hackett. So he, what, decided I had everything under control, so he could just go back and grab a beer? (or whatever the Turian equivalent of beer is) All of your crew by this point are hardened soldiers, even Tali. It isn't in any of their established characters to leave a battle like this, yet they do it without a second thought? We are given absolutely no explanation as to why our squadmate can end up on the Normandy after being in the battle with us.



Going with "the end was indoctrination" would be, while not perfect, certainly a good way to address the fan outrage. I would love to see this, and like some have suggested, it even allows the endings that we have now to stay in with something like a Paragon/Renegade check. If people like the endings the way they are now, that's fine, they don't have to pick those options. Since Mass Effect has been all about choice up to this point, anyone who chooses can have the old endings, and anyone who wants can have the "this was all indoctrination" ending. I don't know if something like this was planned, but as people have said on the megathread about this, it fits so perfectly it's hard to believe it wasn't planned.

Now, back to the idea of a bittersweet ending. Yes, I can understand the desire for this. This was a war, and war means a lot of sacrifice. I also understand that it is the writer's perogative to write the end they want. However this is not just a story, it is a game. It's also not just a game, but a game all about how our (the player's) choices change the outcome. It is also a game that has been described as having "vastly different endings". I honestly can't look at the endings we have now and call them vastly different. I call them 3 bowls of vanilla with different colored sprinkles on them. ME2 had only 2 choices at the end, and yet it had more endings than this game did! You could destroy the Collector base and die, you could destroy it and live, you could destroy it and live but lose some/most of your crew, and so on for saving the base. Also, even though the "choice" in ME2 was shown with a color change, this choice was supported in the end sequence! The dialogue reaffirmed that, yes, we had made a significant choice in the game and the game had changed to reflect that.

The endings of ME3 are nearly identical, with very minor clips thrown in to show if London/Earth had been saved or destroyed. More minor points being if EDI steps out of the Normandy or not and who comes after her. The only major difference is the color of the explosion. Also on another note, why is there even an explosion with the "Control" option? Last time I checked, data is not sent via explosion (maybe Michael Bay's data, but that's beside the point ). These are not the "vastly different endings" we were expecting to see. This image sums it up pretty well:
http://i.imgur.com/xUq9t.png

My suggestions for how to improve the ending:

         1) Endings that are actually different. No, different colors and a few 2 second clips do not count as different endings. As you did so well with ME2, different endings are most easily expressed through dialogue changes. My main problem with the endings the way they are now is that even though we are given the illusion of choice, the ending cinematic really shows that there is none.

         2)More explanation or changes to get rid of plot holes. When I finished the game my first feelings were not anger over how similar the different endings were. They were confusion over all of the plot holes I talked about earlier.

         3) Closure. This game was advertised as being the end of Shepard's journey. Personally I had come to grow attached to my Shepard over the years of adventuring with her. More than that, thanks to the amazing writing your team has done, I grew to care about her squad, her crew, and those she interacted with. I wouldn't have minded some uncertainty, but I was left with absolutely no idea what had happened to anybody. I knew that Anderson was probably dead (though with the miracles they did with Shepard, who knows). I knew that EDI, Joker, and Garrus were alive somewhere. And that was it. The end of the game left me yelling at my screen, "But what happened to everybody?!" If this is truly the end of Shepard's journeys, then I feel that it would help quell the outrage by giving us some closure for all those characters we have grown to care about. If, as you've been teasingly quasi-hinting, this is not the end, then why spend all the time building this up as being "the last great adventure of Shepard"?

         4) Endings that are different enough to evoke a range of emotions. I know this one needs some explaining. People play Mass Effect mainly because their choices can make such a huge impact on the game. Most people don't just play as a Paragon Shepard or a Renegade Shepard, they play multiple times as vastly different characters to see what changes with each one. They want to see what happens if, instead of being nice to the reporter, you take that Renegade interrupt flashing on your screen. They want to see just how badly they can screw the galaxy up. They want to see how much they can save by playing the ultimate hero.

By playing different ways, the end of the last few games can change how you feel drastically. For example, if you do everything wrong in ME2, your Shepard dies and you're left feeling, "Well, now the galaxy is screwed. Go me!" Even if Shepard barely survives, you get that warm fuzzy feeling that can only come with creating mass destruction and mayhem. In contrast, if you did everything right, you get to think, "Suicide mission, what suicide mission? Eat that Collectors, I just owned you guys and didn't even get a scratch!" This isn't even taking into account if you played as a Paragon, or a Renegade, or a blend of both, or who you romanced.

The end of ME2 was done in a way that allows you to really feel that how you played had meaning. ME3 does not. I was fully anticipating that people I knew from ME1 and ME2 would die. It was sad knowing I could do nothing to save them, but the only ones we could truly not save were Legion and Thane. It was still possible to affect the game by playing it different ways. *Note* I was amazed to find that being a Renegade can actually save someone for once! I like what you did there *End note* I was expecting that going into the end of ME3 people could die. I was expecting that Shepard could die. However, I was also expecting that if I did everything right, the impossible could be done, like in ME2. Instead, everything we had done up until that point meant virtually nothing. Guess what? If I played as a Paragon and united all the races, at the end I get left feeling, "Well, now the galaxy is screwed." And if I played as a Renegade? "Well, now the galaxy is screwed."

What many fans (including myself) were hoping for was that if we did everything right, there would be a "happy" ending we could get. This does not have to be a sunshine and bunnies ending. There was still loss in the game after all. Everyone has lived, fought, bled, and died to stop the Reapers. But like the Suicide Mission in ME2, I was hoping for a way to save as many people as I could. If you the writers had decided that no matter what, Shepard had to die, then I could have accepted that...if what was left of my squad could have been given their own happy ending. If I did everything right, why should the people my Shepard cared about suffer the same fate as if I'd done the worst possible job?

I admit, I want an ending where Shepard lives happily ever after. I don't expect that ending to be easy to get. But aside from that, I want to see that the way we played our game made an impact in how the galaxy was afterwards. If we royally screwed up, why stop at just destroying Earth? The Reapers could win and destroy everything, and the cycle could continue 50,000 years later. And if we do everything right, why not give a happy ending? This isn't a book with only one ending; this is an interactive story where you have long said the fans make a difference. You can give us the ending you wanted; a dark, melancholy future that takes years, centuries, maybe even millenia to rebuild. And then you can also give us the endings we as fans want to see. I don't mean giving us exactly what we ask for. I mean giving us endings that make us happy, make us sad, make us cry with joy or point and say "Wow, they're all going to die." With a series that has been so revolutionary in shaping itself to the one who plays it, why stop all that at the finish line?


I know this has been a very long explanation, but I wanted to make sure I clarified what I meant so you don't think I'm just asking for a happy ending. I'm not asking for that. What I'm asking for is an ending that is worthy of the greatness that is the Mass Effect series.

I have never loved shooter games; I've always been an RPG nerd. I played Goldeneye with my brother on our N64, a game that many say is the grandfather of good shooter games. And I thought it was "meh". I only played it because it was something I could do with my brother, instead of one of us watching the other play Ocarina of Time or Yoshi's Story or Pokemon Snap (yes, I like those games, deal with it). My absolute favorite games were Baldur's Gate/Baldur's Gate II. I was late getting into the Mass Effect series for this very reason. In fact, the only reason I got into it at all was because of the free download of ME2 I got after buying DA2. I figured, "why not".

Now Mass Effect is one of my favorite game series of all time. I honestly couldn't pick between it and Baldur's Gate. BG is only even with ME because of all the mods I have installed; if I didn't have any of those, ME would be my favorite game series of all time. You're probably waiting for the point to this rant, so I'll finish this massive essay of a review. This game series is revolutionary in just about everything. It is revolutionary in having a talking main char. It is revolutionary in making your good/evil choices actually matter. It is revolutionary in blending shooter with RPG, and doing it well. I don't want to criticize what I'm sure was a well thought-out ending, especially since it is your sandbox I'm playing in. But you opened your sandbox to me as well, because this company and this series prides itself on being one that lets the player shape how it turns out. I only want this ending to be one that lives up to the very high standards this series has set for it.

Staff (and fans), if you got to the end of this, you deserve a high five.

Modifié par Aramina, 17 mars 2012 - 06:09 .