7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Irishfafnir]

An ending that makes sense. Shepard should be able to challenge the Star child assertion that organic and synthetic life are doomed to fight. If the appropriate choices have been made, Shepard should point to the geth/quarian peace as well as the joker/edi romance as examples. Also reason for reaper annihilation should be that organic life always destroys all other organic life. Would make more sense since throughout the game it is referenced that Shepard has done more then the other cycles could by uniting the races. Shepard could point to the council, krogan/rachni resolutions as other examples of cooperation.

Also get rid of the Normandy crash into the jungle, it is a slap in the face to all of the relationships we have built with our crew members.

[TemplarW20]

I can understand the desire for a bittersweet ending, but that was already achieved with the deaths up until that point, all those that could not be saved, and so on. Forcing the sacrifice of Shepard, the destruction of the relays, and the stranding of the Normandy just feels like wrenches thrown in to prevent a satisfying ending. I worked my butt off in ME2 to make sure everyone lived, and I worked my butt off in ME3 to achieve the same goal, only for a deus ex machina to appear and say that everything (especially finally ending the Quarian/Geth conflict without genocide) was for nothing, and the synthetic/biological is inevitable (when a larger part of ME2 and ME3 is saying that it is not). Give us a victory, a triumph, not multiple flavors of "game over". Every single one of the endings feels like the sequence from the 1990's RPG Chrono Trigger, where if your party is defeated you see the end of the world and the message "but, the future refused to change". Another example which many at Bioware should be familiar (with all the SWTOR stuff) is the original ending of Return of the Jedi, where Lucas had planned for the Falcon and it's crew to not escape the Death Star's explosion. Test audiences objected, because it was an artificial cost.

The destruction of the Assari homeworld, the billions dead, the massive devastation of Earth, Mordin, Thane, Legion, Anderson...all those were real costs, and mattered to the story. Shepard's "sacrifice" (the only way to possible avert that would be to sacrifice the Geth and EDI...NOT GOING TO HAPPEN) and the destruction of galactic civilization...those felt artificial. I expected better story telling from a Bioware game.

[Nobrandminda]

 Give the reapers a better motivation, or if you're going to stick with the "Organic/Synthetic conflict" thing, the Catalyst has to do a much better job selling the idea.  The two biggest problems with his argument are the examples of synthetic life that contradict his point, and the attitude of the reapers themselves.

When you say the words "Synthetic life" to a Mass Effect player, the first thing that pops into his/her mind is going to be EDI or the Geth and neither of them pose a threat to organic life.  EDI has consistantly shown the same loyalty to the crew of the Normandy (even refering to them as "my crew" in a fairly touching moment in ME2) as any organic crewmember.  The Geth have always fought in self defense.  Even if you side with the Geth on Rannoch, they only destroy the Quarians if they have no other choice.  

It could be argued that these are the exceptions to the rule, but that just comes off as bad storytelling.  It's like if you had a story where the main character is a tech expert.  Every conflict throughout the story, he solves it with technical know how and solves problems that nobody could solve without the use of a computer.  But then at the very end, the author tries to shoehorn in a message about how technology is bad and the main character should feel bad for using it.  Maybe the author will point out some other minor character from the story who uses technology for something frivolous, but the audience hasn't spent an entire story with that guy, they've been with the good guy who's been using technology for good this whole time.  The rest of the narrative makes the argument weaker.

And then there are the Reapers themselves: a race of synthetics who periodically wipe out organics to stop organics from getting wiped out by synthetics.  Just let that sink in for a second.  It has been argued that the reapers don't consider themselves synthetics.  They see themselves simply as a different form of organic life who are really acting for our benefit, but you really don't get that impression from talking to the reapers themselves.  Sovereign is just sort of condescending towards organic life in general.  He calls organic life an "accident" and talks about how the reapers bring "order out of chaos," which makes it sound like organic life itself is the "chaos" that needs to be reorganized.  Harbinger is slightly less condescending at least, but he still goes on and on about our "ascension" as if organic life in its current form is simply beneith his notice.  We get no hint of benevolence until we talk to the Catalyst, and in the face of everything else we've seen and heard the reapers do and say, it just comes off as untrustworthy.

Modifié par Nobrandminda, 17 mars 2012 - 05:53 .

[Darth_Acheron47]

I originally posted most of this in another thread, but since this line of communication has been opened specifically for this purpose, I want to add it here as well.

A coworker’s son told me about the Mass Effect series around Thanksgiving of 2010, after the first and second games had already been released. Based on his recommendation, I actually went searching for the first game specifically before getting the second, even though it was a lot harder to come by at that point. Eventually I found it at a used game store, and ended up having to go back and switch it for another copy when the disc didn't work.
 
I bought the second game the next day, knowing I was already hooked after a good seven hours glued to my Xbox. It took me just over a month to finish both games. I literally beat the first, watched the credits, and started the second on the same day. Once that was done, I went back and created an entirely new Shepard to try different things – explore different relationships, make different choices, do things in a different order. I wanted to see what differences came out in the second game and, most importantly, in the third that I'd just seen previews for at Spike TV's VGA ceremony.
 
Over the past year, I’ve purchased all of the DLC for both games, including additional weapons and the appearance packs. Granted, I never finished Pinnacle Station because I’m not a huge fan of the canned “training sim shooter” montage, and timed battles are not my thing. (The two timed missions on ME2 were the hardest things I've ever done in a video game.) I will be the first to admit that, before ME, I was a melee RPG fighter. Even on KOTOR, I couldn’t hit an enemy with a blaster at five paces. This is the first time I've become experienced enough with the combat mechanics of a game to PURPOSELY turn up the difficulty setting. Beating ME2 on Insanity was one of my proudest moments as a gamer.

I’ve also purchased all the comics, books, N7 hoodie, Normandy model, etc. Even before this, it was a little depressing to think how addicted I was to Mass Effect and how much money I was handing over just to be able to enjoy that universe.
 
When I started seeing footage for ME3, up to and including every video clip I could get my hands on during E3 (yes, I got yelled at at work more than once for watching streaming videos on the Internet instead of actually working), I was beyond excited. People at my office thought I was crazy because I found one of those website countdown clocks and put in the release date and left it on my monitor all day. It started at 272 days.
 
Long story short(ish) – I played both ME and ME2 six times each to set up as many different options and scenarios as I could. I went through at different difficulty levels, I had a play through where I tried to keep everyone alive through the suicide mission and set up the “ideal” scenario to start off the third game, and even one where I purposely did everything I could “wrong” (up to and including killing Wrex and the rachni, two of the hardest choices I’ve ever had to force myself to make in a video game, not to mention handing the Collector base over to the Illusive Man) just to see what would happen.
 
I was so excited for the third game that I took time off work just so I could enjoy focusing on playing. Three days and thirty five hours later, I was sitting on my couch grinning like an idiot after blasting the Reaper destroyer in London to bits, having just made it through the longest, hardest, most hellish gunfight I’d ever been through. Right up until that point, the game was awesome.
 
Then I ran down a hill, got hit with a Reaper laser beam, and felt pretty sure I saw Garrus and Kaidan (my LI in my first play through) get killed before my eyes.
 
That sucked. But I could accept it.
 
I could even accept the trudging half-blind through the Citadel with the gun that didn’t run out of ammo (and somehow blew the head off "Marauder Shields" in three shots), and my lack of a health bar, and Anderson and TIM showing up “somehow” on the Citadel in a strange place no one ever saw before, in order to take the biggest Deus Ex Machina super-weapon and blow the Reapers to hell. I was prepared to accept Anderson dying, Shepard dying, most of my team dying, and the game being over on a tragic, sad note as the galaxy tried to rebuild from the carnage. I figured I either hadn't done enough to prepare, or maybe this was just the way it had to be. And if it had to be bittersweet, then fine - I could deal with that. I was fighting giant, omnicidial robots who had already slaughtered millions of people - if everything had to fall apart to defeat them, I could deal with it. Didn't like the idea, but again - I could accept it.
 
What I don’t accept is the idea that a game that took 100+ hours on one run through all three titles, carrying your choices through the whole way, staying consistent throughout the entire journey, bringing in more intensity and emotion than any other game I've ever encountered, ended by picking which color explosion you want to see go pinging across the galaxy, watch your ship inexplicably crash on some random jungle planet, and a cut scene with Buzz Aldrin and a kid asking for “one more story about The Shepard.”
 
I feel betrayed. I feel like none of the work that I did, from the very beginning choices as far back as Eden Prime to the very end, meant anything. I’ve never been this excited for this long about something, and the experience would have lived up to my admittedly insanely high expectations, if not for that force-fed ending that rendered everything else you thought or did or said completely and totally irrelevant.
 
I have three other characters (two games were NG+ on the first game to play through Hardcore and Insanity with higher levels and better equipment), and no desire to play this through to the end with any of them. Unless there’s some indication that the choices I make have any effect or impact whatsoever, there’s no reason.
 
I’ll sum up before I just really depress myself even more. The primary problems/issues I have with the ending as it stands now are as follows:
 
One: These games are about choice and consequence. With the current ending, we get none of either. Yes, I can pick which color I like and whatnot, but given that it has very little bearing on the ending as a whole, I see no reason to do so.
 
Two: Even the “singular” endings of the past games have left the player with a decent amount of closure. In the first game, you were rebuilding either with or in place of the Council, having defeated Sovereign and Saren and focusing on preparing for the Reaper invasion. You could walk around after the suicide mission and see your squad, check on who lived and died, and talk about what had just happened, discuss with the rest of the squad whether they thought the choices you made were good or bad. At the end of it all, there was still a sense of hope.
 
Three: I don’t care if the ending is happy and I get a cabin in Vancouver and lots of Shenko babies, or it's sad and everyone dies and I see the aftermath of all-out total war on the galaxy as people try to pick up and rebuild their lives. I devoted my whole life to this game for a week straight, not even counting the time spent on the others both in-game, talking/thinking about it, strategizing about killing Reapers with friends (we came up with some pretty crazy theories), in the attempt to get closure for this story, and received none.
 
Four: The various things that were said about the game before it was released were either highly misleading or outright untrue. In order to get to the “best” ending, you apparently need at least 4000 EMS, meaning 8000 TMS with the 50% galactic readiness that’s standard for those who don’t use Multiplayer. This seems contradictory given that the initial statements regarding MP were that it was not necessary in order to get the ideal ending in SP. This becomes even more difficult if you fail to “save” Anderson, in which case you need 5000 EMS, or 10000 TMS (is this even possible?) The endings are another part of this – where is the “wildly divergent” set of consequences we were told existed?
 
Five: There is no real “basis” to support this ending. I understand that the Crucible was mentioned in the opening of the game (yes, I tried to start another play through last night and played for about three hours and would love to continue but won’t in support of the protest against the current endings). My real issue is with StarChild. Throughout the whole series, Shepard has been able to talk to/question everyone he/she meets. I’m a huge fan of that. In this last game especially, the choices that are being made are important to the entire galaxy, so how can anyone be expected to make them without any form of input whatsoever? Shepard as a character constantly seeks input and questions people, and yet finds himself at an ending where things are so wildly different than what they should have been, and he blindly accepts the choices given to him? It’s completely out-of-character and goes against the context set by the rest of the trilogy.
 
What I find really disappointing about this whole thing is that the rest of the game was wonderful. There were so many emotional moments (I cried more than once, mostly when Mordin and Thane died), there was so much going on, and it was so easy to get completely wrapped up in the spirit of it all. I’m sure that there would have been hundreds of glowing reviews out there for it, not just from the gaming sites and magazines, but also from the fans. BioWare would have had all these people singing their praises and getting people to play not just this game, but all three.
 
As it is, I’ve been telling a few people at work for the past couple of months that they have to get and play these games. After beating the third one, I told them not to waste their time. I can’t, in good conscience, put them through the wringer of getting attached to these characters, exploring this universe, and coming to an end where it all ceases to make any difference.
 
The complete nonsensical ending may not have completely ruined the trilogy, but at this point it's hard to see that happening for me personally. If there are other people that feel differently, I fully respect their opinion and wish them the best. I may be able to play these games again someday, and just stop when the Reaper death beam hits or even just before the creepy elevator sequence that leads to the GodChild, make up an ending in my head, and go about my business.
 
But this, to me, is bad press and a lot of it being generated over that ending. Maybe it ruined the games, maybe not. Maybe it ruins the reputation of the company, or maybe they pick up and keep going and market to a different fanbase after their original one swears off their product as a result of these feelings of betrayal. But instead of being able to dwell on the series as a whole, to think about the great things that we loved about this game and about the others as well, the only thing I keep coming back to is those last 10-15 minutes and how, ultimately, all of those great things are now overshadowed by this.

I want to be able to remember Mass Effect as an amazing, ground-breaking series of games that I can enjoy again and again for years to come. As it stands now, all I can remember is the disappointment of the ending and the lack of real response to the issue at hand.

[muttdude]

Alright, I'll bite.

First off, the game itself was great. Not perfect, but it was fun down the the last 10 minutes of gameplay. Any other game, that might not be an issue. But Mass Effect is a Bioware series that prides itself on interactive story telling. And to someone like me, the story is integral. So a poor ending to not just a single game, but an entire trilogy that I have devoted lots of time and enthusiasm to has left me hurt.

The story failed in its genre. It went against decorum. The endings were 95% similar. They offered no closure. It made no sense. And it felt like a blatant ripoff (Deus Ex: The Conspiracy). Our choices were destroy, merge, or control?

And it was against all expectations of Bioware, and the comments said by the staff. Our expectations weren't made in a vacuum. We not only had Mass Effect 1 and 2, but other great Bioware titles such as DA:O and KOTOR. We prepared our saves, read the books, and browsed the wiki only to find that none of our choices impacted the actual end. It appears that it was taken that the whole game would be the "ending" in terms of our choices impacting how the reaper war would be fought.

And speaking of the reapers, there was a complete lack of character and motivation. They had been built up to be mysterious, powerful, and beyond comprehension. The "Dark Energy" subplot from Mass Effect 2 should have been a Chekov's gun in that if something is foreshadowed it should be deemed necessary to use it. Tying in the Reaper's purpose to prevention of galactic destruction would have prevented what feels like a complete tautology. We built synthetics  to destroy you so you don't build synthetics to destroy you. Unknowable purpose? Bunk.

The story attempted emotional manipulation and failed spectacularly. I hated the generic caucassian child (race stated due to the likely demographing done to evoke sympathy) and his impact on Shepard. The dream sequences were slow, boring, uninteractive, and unimaginative. Max Payne or the Fade in DA:O were worth playing once in that they exposed character state or lore of the imagined world. With all the casualties Shepard has dealt with and with trillions at stake, the starchild gets special treatment?

And why in the world is he used as the represenative of the reapers? That made no sense. It wasn't foreshadowed. It wasn't necessary. It made the situation even more contrived. There was not even lip service to explanation. It was like a bad M. Knight Shamalan movie. A twist is not a plot. And even as the choice is made, we have the horrific and seemingly series ending shutdown/destruction of the mass relays and their implication. In all 3 endings. There are only 3. After hundreds of choices to make peace or war, we have 3 endings and know nothing of our surviving friends other than a non sensical Normandy crash landing far from the Battle of Earth.

It was an epic trilogy. An "Epic." Something heroic should have been felt. That's how catharsis is achieved in an epic. It can be tragic. The hero can die. Losing could have been an option for failing to prepare. Even a heroic last stand would have been preferable. But "We'll all go together" evokes more sympathy than what we received.

Then there's the nitpicks.
Like Tali's face. Sure, the expectations were a bit daunting, but the lack of effort is what is most offensive. Character design is so apparent with all the other races, even if they are humanoid. Not only is it a poor photoshop, but there is a lack of distinguishing features. And no explanation for who the Quarians are. Not even modelled in game for what would have been an emotional moment. It's the sheer lack of effort that was offensive.

War assets. I understand development limitations. But it feels like many great stories had been missed. The opportunity for engrossing side missions were possible. But little of what is done in terms of war assets makes an appearance in the final battle.

The books. It has been a few months, but Retribution gave the impression that Cerberus had been cripped or at least severely mitigated. Yet they have the logistical and manpower numbers to continually harass Shepard and make a viable stand against the allied fleet.

And Deception. I'm glad I didn't preorder. I can't speak directly for it, I did read the google document citing the issues with lore and canon. Not to mention Dietz is a terrible author. Karpyshyn would at least have been consistant.

I used to have utter confidence in Bioware. I would preorder something in a heartbeat. I didn't need reviews since I knew I'd love it. DA:O, Kotor, ME 1 and 2. But then DA:2 happened. And Deception. And now an entire trilogy is ruined because of a bad ending to what is supposed to be an epic story.

PS. Back to emotionally manipulative. The stargazer part. "Can you tell me another story of "The Shepard." I mean, really? That was as unsubtle as Deus Ex: Human Revolution naming the first augmented whatever men Adam (ahahaha I see what they did there.) That scene only confused and infuriated me. And you put Buzz Aldrin's VO on it? The poor man doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. The writer attempted to be poetic making us to be the child hearing tales of Earth's greatest hero. Which was never foreshadowed, and had no place in the ME universe. Being made the child was childish and insulting in telling us that events were beyond our understanding. You only need to look at Deceptions Google Doc or the ME wiki to see we've been keeping tabs on every detail and building the universe and creating the fourth wall

Modifié par muttdude, 17 mars 2012 - 06:43 .

[Chk-2000]

I know I'm not the first to mention it in this thread (and others) but it is still true: Leaving the endings aside, Mass Effect 3 was a truly fantastic game. The final chapter of the saga is well written and the amount of attention given to even small details is just amazing.

In fact, in my opinion, the creation of the Mass Effect universe by Bioware is one of the greatest achievements in creative story telling to date and I for one would not hesitate to mention Mass Effect in the same breath as other great fantasy and science fiction masterpieces like "The lord of the rings" or "Star Wars". I would never have thought it possible to get so emotionally attached to a fictive world and its inhabitants as it was the case with Mass Effect. For me, not even those great classics mentioned above achieved this level of identification with their settings and characters. This might be due to the fact, that being an interactive story, Mass Effect had me not watching from the sidelines while the main characters of the story had their adventures (like in books or movies), but put me right in "Shepard's shoes" and made it seem that everything I did and said had a real impact on how the story evolved. Not all decisions where easy (Virmire) and about others I felt quite unsure (Rachni queen) but they were still MY decisions (not Frodo's or Luke's, etc.) and so the ensuing story became also mine.

And this in my opinion is where ME3 fell short of its mark, when at the end of the game, at the moment where it mattered most, all power to decide and shape the story was snatched away from the player (choosing the explosion color does not count for me here). I had hoped for an ending, where all the easy and difficult, the clear and obscure choices I made in 3 episodes over 5 years come to a head and decide the fate of the galaxy.

When I read a comment prior to release, that ME3 would have so many different endings you could hardly count them due to the many different choices you might have made, I expected something like the suicide mission in ME2 only on an even greater scale. In ME2 if you didn't upgrade your shields/guns/plating, crew members died. If you went into battle with crew members not loyal to you, some of them died. If you picked the wrong people for special tasks, they died. Even Shepard was doomed to death if he faced the collectors unprepared. So I naturally assumed the same for ME3: The better you prepare, the better the outcome of your war against the reapers.  I thought this was what all this collecting of war assets and raising EMS was about. But in the end, it made no real difference. High or low EMS, galactic civilization gets plunged into a new dark age with all the mass relays destroyed. Shepard and I never really had a chance to save the galaxy. After all the effort I put into preparing for the final confrontation and after those many times I heard Shepard say: "We can win this, if we all stick together!" this outcome was the biggest disappointment I ever experienced in any kind of story I cared about.

I know that happy endings are nowadays frowned upon. Everything has to be tragic and philosophical (because we don't already have enough misery in our world apparently). But this was never true for Mass Effect – at least until you got hit by the Reaper laser. Bioware told a story of hope, of never giving up even in face of impossible odds. A story of unity, where overcoming racial and cultural barriers made both sides stronger and where "fighting the good fight" was rewarded. And I'd like to believe, that THIS really is, what Bioware wanted to tell us with this story rather than the "sometimes it is better to just give up and bow to the inevitable" or the "different races will always end up destroying each other" approach that the current endings give us.

So my final appeal to Bioware is this: Please don't let it end this way, as a great masterpiece that stumbled a few feet before reaching the finish and will be forgotten, or even worse, will wrongfully be remembered as a great disappointment only because of an unfortunate artistic decision at its end. Give Shepard a chance to really "win this one" and secure peace for an intact galactic civilization, or even a chance to loose to the Reapers, always based on your EMS (in other words your decisions). Keep the current endings in the game (for those people who were content with how things turned out) but please give us in the end what Mass Effect was all about: Choice

One final note: I know we (the players) are not entitled to a new ending and if you help us out here and do it anyway, I don't expect you to do it for free (writers, developers and voice actors have to live too), but if it's not free,... there is this Child's Play donation drive, and well ... you know ... wanna chip in? :innocent:

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Extremely well said Muttdude.

[Nobrandminda]

Have a variety of endings with a variety of tones. It's a bioware game, there's no reason we can't have a happy ending, a sad ending, a bittersweet ending and a little-blue-babies ending all at the same time.

[Debi-Tage]

Hapimeses wrote...

And, yes, I write the above in the understanding that this entire thread is almost certainly presented as damage control by Bioware. As an attempt to make me feel that I, and others who share my disappointment, have some form of agency, even though we don't. I.e.: this entire post is a waste of my time and will make no difference in the slightest.

A waste of time? Kind of like playing Mass Effect to begin with given the current situation.

I read every word of it and agree completely!

[adastra35]

 I'm going to go ahead an repost an idea from the Mass Effect subreddit that I liked as a potential failure ending.

stuckboy  posted on 17 March:

"I thought one of the most touching moments in ME3 was when Liara comes to talk to you about the "time capsule" that she is working on and asks how she should portray Shepard. There is an overwhelming sense of dread throughout the game that if the Reapers aren't defeated, all will be lost. Liara, however, manages to find a glimmer of hope even in the possibility of outright defeat and extinction.I thought it would be awesome if Shepard failed to acquire sufficient resources to win the war against the reapers, that they do actually win and humanity and the other advanced species are wiped from the galaxy. But then there would be a scene with a new unknown species- an advanced race of the next cycle, uncovering Liara's capsule. They activate it and then listen in awe as the voice of a long-dead Liara speaks out, describing Shepard, the champion and hero of the previous cycle, and the struggle against the reapers that ultimately failed.That is what I would call a bittersweet ending."

Original thread here: http://www.reddit.co...ad_ending_nsfw/

[AlienSpaceBats]

For the most part, I loved playing Mass Effect 3, but here and there I noticed more and more of the "little things" were left out and prevented the game from being truly great.

1. The journal/quest log was useless, it didn't tell you if you had acquired a particular item or specifically where to get it, often it would name a planet, but not the star system it's located in.

2. From a science fiction point of view, aliens calling each other things like Lieutenant and doing Earth military salutes to eachother seems wrong.

3. Though the London battles are excellent, they're one-sided and only seem to feature infantry with assault rifles. There are no Biotics, 'mechs or other troops engaged in fighting. I think the team missed something here.

4. Some elements of the game seem unfinished or slap-dash. Cutscenes are glitchy and some animations look weird, face import doesn't work properly (if at all).

5. Atmosphere. In Mass Effect 2, if you walked around the Normandy you would hear ambient conversations between crewmembers. In Mass Effect 3, there are two character models gesturing at each-other. This also goes for walking about the Citadel and other locations.

6. Show us our decisions mattered: I spent an awful lot of time making sure I solved problems for characters in the game. With the ending in its current state, none of our decisions make a difference regardless of how Shepard acts throughout the trilogy because whether I cured the Genophage, saved the Council or destroyed the Collector base, the same thing happens.

[Superninfreak]

My thoughts on the ending:

Mass Effect 3 is a wonderful finale to one of the greatest trilogies of our time until the very end of it. I'd like to express exactly what I think is wrong with the ending in the hopes that you will improve upon it with DLC.

-PLOTHOLES:

The Normandy somehow carries the crew members I brought to Earth. How did they get on the Normandy? Did the Normandy pick them up and leave Shepard? It's also strange that the Normandy is fleeing the battle. The Normandy's pilot is the same person who in the opening of ME2 was willing to die rather than flee. I doubt that he would abandon Commander Shepard at this important moment.

The synthesis ending is incredibly bizarre, this has always been a franchise that has gone to pain-staking lengths to make sure everything is plausible and consistent. In a series that tries to make sense scientifically, I don't understand how we're supposed to believe that this beam can change every single being into an organic/synthetic hybrid with no explanation. It breaks suspension of disbelief.

I'm also curious why the Reapers sided with the Geth and even gave them Reaper tech if the Reapers' goal is to prevent synthetics from waging war on all organic life.

Finally, I don't understand how it makes sense that "the created will always destroy the creator" since the Reapers were likely themselves created, possibly by the Catalyst.

-PLOT AND THEME:

Mass Effect has delved into the problem of synthetics vs organics, but it has always looked at synthetics sympathetically. Synthetics have only ever fought organics in self defense or because the Reapers made them do it. In Mass Effect, the fear of synthetics is the real cause of conflict. The Geth/Quarian war was started by the Quarians because of their fear of the Geth.

I can understand a flawed motivation for a villain, after all we're supposed to disagree with villains. However, Shepard isn't allowed to really question the Catalyst. Shepard just accepts what the Catalyst says, despite the fact that it's possible for Shepard to have allied the Quarians and Geth against the Reapers. Shepard can prove that organics and synthetics can live in harmony by getting peace between the Geth and Quarians and by getting Joker and EDI to start a romance. Why is Shepard never allowed to point these examples out to the Catalyst?

There's also the problem of optimism v pessimism, but I'll explain that in the next section.

-CHOICE:

The player has been able to have drastic impacts on Galactic Society, but all of that is made null by the destruction of the mass relays. Without the Mass Relays, planets that aren't self-sufficient will starve, and the fleets near Earth likely won't have enough fuel to ever return to their homeplanets (and there's also the fact that they probably wouldn't live long enough to see their homeworlds even if they went at FTL speeds). It's also notable that Arrival tells us that destroying a Mass Relay blows up the whole system it's in. The shockwaves from the Mass Relays exploding can be seen from a view of the entire galaxy, and the explosions are strong enough to make the Normandy crash. Considering this, it's likely that every system with a relay is now destroyed, including Earth. No matter what the player does, all of Galactic Civilization is gone. Why should I care about uniting the Quarians and the Geth and getting them to try to peacefully live on their homeworld if that planet is going to be destroyed anyway?

There was a mistake in giving the player a simple three choices at the end of the game, especially since all of them are so bleak (since every choice blows up the mass relays). No matter what I do in the game, I can't save the society I've grown so fond of. No matter how hard I work, my choices at the end aren't much different from someone who rushed through the game.

I realize that it's hard to have your choices truly matter, but I'd like to point to a perfect example of how Mass Effect 3 should have ended. Look at ME2's ending. In Mass Effect 2, the ending can range from everyone dying, to everyone living, to everything in between. The result of the suicide mission is based purely on how well the player can handle it.

This ties into Mass Effect's theme of optimism. In the entire series, you've been able to earn a happy ending if you work hard enough, and if you don't work hard enough things go wrong. In ME1 Wrex can live or die, in ME2 Tali can be exonerated with no evidence if you do things right, in ME3 the Geth and Quarians can be united if you do things right. Of course, in all of these situations there is a drastic difference between prepared players and unprepared players.

In ME3's ending, no matter what happens the ending has the same tone. Galactic Civilization is always sacrificed in order to allow the next cycle to be free of the Reapers. It's notable that in ME3 there is no way for the Reapers to win. This seems really bizarre.

Why not have the success of the final battle drastically change based on how prepared the player is? If the player has a low EMS, then the Reapers should outright win. If the player has a medium EMS, there should be an ending like the one we have. If the player has a high EMS, then Galactic Society should be allowed to survive, but obviously with the heavy casualties we've seen them receive.

I don't want the ending to be "happy", I want the ending to vary in tone based on my performance. If someone isn't prepared, they should get a much bleaker ending than we currently have. If someone DOES prepare, then they should get a brighter ending than what we have. This would fit with how Mass Effect has always been. If you screw up, you suffer for it. If you do well, you are rewarded.

The endings as we have them now are incredibly similar. The ending cutscene is almost identical other than color.

I just really think this series deserves a better ending. Please listen to the fans and do something like Fallout 3's Broken Steel. This series is a masterpiece, but the ending ruins it. Please change the ending for the sake of this brilliant franchise Bioware has created.

[hyperforce99]

Its good to know Bioware is listening.
Regardless if this was planned or if somehow bioware/EA miscalculated when creating this ending
If this wasn't planned, in any case, Bioware now has a golden oppertunity to set themselves up as the best story writers in game history. But they also run the risk of burning their reputation to a crisp if they handle this poorly.

What did I think about the game:

I really did like the game a lot, its elements fitted together really well. Perhaps the third arc (with the prothean AI and the illusive man) was a bit more linear in setup than the krogan or the Quarian/geth story arc but it still worked. However, once we got to the cerberus base things started to go fast. The illusive man being allways one step ahead of you, etc. But it still worked and the setup for the final confrontation at earth felt truely epic. 
The level on Earth was also very interesting, through perhaps some parts lacked urgency (the part in the HAMMER base) Its however after you make the final push and get hit by Harbingers beam that the story quickly went from epic, to simply bad nonsensicle writing. That is, unless the indoctrination theory is actually correct.

My reaction to this ending:

Over the past few days i've gone from disbelief, to dissapointment, to denying the ending even existed, to hope.
Hope because of the Indoctrination theory.

The reason the current ending is so bad is allready discussed by much better people than me.
But the general lines are these:

It gives no closure,
It ignores the EMS you have build up and instead creates a unsubstantiated connection between the choices the catalyst will offer you and the final ending sequence you recieve. Why build up a citadel defense force when it will have no effect in the end anyway.


It also makes no sense, has way to many plotholes and even outright contradictions under specific circumstances. I've seen EDI's body lie dead in a puddle of blood(?) on the left when stumbling towards the conduit after you are hit by harbingers beam... only to see her walk off the normandy at the end cutscene.


This leads me to the Indoctrination Theory. When I started hearing and reading about this it not only gave me hope for a better ending. It would also be a brilliant move on Biowares part. Presuming that this is true, then that means the true ending to mass effect 3 is yet to be revealed.

If the choices you make as a player during the "dream sequence" will deeply impact the course of any possible ending DLC it will have to have grand but also tangible consequences.

It will have to take the following aspects into account:

1. Your choice in the "Dream sequence".

If you have chosen the blue or green endings you will be fully or partially indoctrinated.
Presuming you are even capable of continueing the story after this point (which I will for this instance), The final ending section of the game will have to reflect this. Shepard will likely make strange choices and potentially betray his friends/squadmates or worse, which could lead to a truely catastrophic endings and will likely cause shepard to die regardless. If the right choices are made perhaps Shepard could snap out of it just like Seran did in the end of ME1.

However, If the player chose the red ending and broke his hold over the reapers indoctrination.
It could lead to a better or even perfect ending.

2. Make your EMS truely count !

Your EMS is the perfect way to calculate out your chances of survival. At the least it could offer support during the ending. At its best it could influence how successfull you are at saving the galaxy and galactic civilisation.
Allow me to explain:

The citadel defense force. If you didn't put any effort into this then the citadel will likely have been overrun by reaper ground forces and the council will likely be dead. However, if you have invested time and effort into building up the citadels defensive capabilities this could lead to some interesting gameplay.
After the final push towards the conduit the player could fight his/her way through the citadel to its control center.

Similiarly the crucibles success could be linked to the fleet size

The purpose of the fleets you have collected and the tech upgrades you aquired for the crucible need to matter.
If you don't have a large enough fleet to defend it, the crucible could become damaged. Some key points in the external space battle could be used. Different factions space craft could come into play to create a captivating and thrilling space battle. in a similiar way the normandy upgrades effected the sequence in ME2.
If the crucible takes too much damage it could cause side effects to occur when the weapon is finally used. Will a damaged energy source destroy the Citadel and all that live on it? Will it cause a misfire or create interference with the mass relays similiarly like the current endings do?

3. Post ending closure.

You (bioware) have done this before. Dragon Age 1 had a great ending that did not only allow the player to experience his success first hand, but it also closed the story for all characters and civilisations with narration. And even when the player failed to survive, it still had a beautifull ending sequence with your funeral.

It is important for the players but also for the story to provide closure. it gives players a reason to replay the game to achieve a differnent outcome.

Lets say the player manages to defeat the reapers, save galactic civilization (this means the mass relays are intact) and you also survive. This should be possible just like in Dragon Age 1, but just like in DA1, only if all pieces of the puzzle line up.

Similiarly, if you didn't bring enough ships to defend the crucible or if you are indoctrinated and can't fight it. some horrific endings should be possible. The defeat of all sentient life, the destruction of the mass relays. Armagedon type stuff. If I screwed up and didn't achieve the games goals of gathering a large enough force, the consequences should be bad.

4.  Make the ending make sense and actually rooted into the mass effect universe

The dream sequence ending felt way to floaty to be part of the mass effect universe.
From the entire gameplay style changing at the last moment, to the control panel being convenienty near your entry point, the god child Deus Ex Machina and the (synthesis) ending. It all feels like its not taking place in the same universe. Mass effect has allways struk me as a science fiction game set in at least some form of theoretical basis. Galaxy wide beams of energy that fuse organics and machines into hybrids is not what i'd call plausible in the Mass Effect univserse.

A revised ending (or at least the method (storywise) to bring about such ending) should make sense. One critical thing that was ignored is that the Citadel is in and all of itsself a collossal mass relay. If given enough power why couldn't it send the signal across the entire universe to every reaper on its own?
And if the Catalysts true purpose still holds true outside of shepards dream, then at least make it a key element that the player has to use or fight for to reach the final ending (without the god child please).

Something like a kill switch signal/virus that will effect all reapers, or a way to disrupt the reapers systems making them much more susceptable to counter attacks. (again the EMS and fleet size could be taken into account here.)
I'm sure there are other ways, but i've made my point.

5. Save the reputation with your fans.

As I've explained at the top of my post, in my eyes Bioware is at a crossroads.
After Dragon age 2 and now Mass Effect 3's ending, your reputation as a great story teller and leader in the game industry is cracking. To me and many of your fans, the ending of a game can make or break it and the entire series before it.

For a story driven game series like Mass Effect, no, 'especially' for a story driven game series like Mass Effect, a proper conclusion is crucial.

Also the way you will present this as DLC will be important. 
Asking money for an Ending DLC could cause a backlash from your community as they expect a real ending to be part of the retail package.


I hope this helped.
Hyperforce signing off.

Modifié par hyperforce99, 17 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[T-Raks]

Just another short thought on the ending: After destroying the reapers it wouldn't hurt to see someone looking after my Shepard. I think my squadmates would want to know what happenend to me instead of jumping on the Normandy via time travel directly from the battlefield where I thought some of them didn't make it.

[Senario]

One thing I'd like as an OPTION is a happy ending for your Shepard and his/her LI. Of course I'd be fine with Shepard being a Martyr and sacrificing himself. But I really expected a "Happy" ending as a choice. Like ME1, you expect that Shepard died saving the Citadel from Sovereign but then at the end he climbs up out of the rubble and all is good.

Saying things like "The hero has to Die/fail/ANYTHING" doesn't fit ME as a whole because we, the players, create the story and world we play in.

[Hoglund135]

Most of us just want some kind of closure. We want to know what happens to the galaxy after the final choice (a real choice, not just which color you prefer) has been made. We want to see all the choices we've made throughout the series actually play out. Did Wrex and Eve manage to unite the Krogan and rebuild Tuchanka? Did the Rachni queen keep her promise to Shepard? What became of Rannoch and the peace between the Quarians and the Geth? What happened to Joker, EDI, and the rest of your crew? Did your favorite bro Garrus move to Rannoch and settle down with Tali? What about your own family? Did Shepard and the LI live happily ever after?

You don't even have to be original about it. Just do a Dragon Age: Origins epilogue narrated by Lance Hendriksen (the voice of Hackett) that answers all these questions. Seeing how you've done it before, it shouldn't be too hard for you to nail.

"Doctor Chakwas and Shepard finally got to sit down and share their Serrice Ice Brandy with each other, talking about their adventures together and friends they had lost. Karin stayed with the Alliance for some time after the war, treating the wounded and helping out where she could. But with the war finally over, and her old crew moving on with their respective lives, she soon retired and moved back to Earth."

"After the war, the galaxy went into a state of recovery and healing. In time, even Earth, Palaven and Thessia - which had seen some of the worst fighting during the war, with most major citites being reduced to rubble by the Reaper fleets - could rebuild and recover."

You get the picture.

[mupchu777]

I can pretty much sum up 99.9% of the problem is the ending... the rest of the game was perfect (trust me... it was a 10/10 before the ending). I personallly love the idea of an indoc followed by DLC ending for those that got a "perfect" ending (thus freeing the narrative up for a proper ending). The real problem with the ending is it has no closure... No idea what happens to our beloved characters, and sheapard is stranded... This kinda ending ranks up with the original ending of farscape (where the two leads get reduced to crystal dust after deciding to get married). I know there are those that are all sorts of upset that you need DLC then to get a proper ending but you know what... serious I don't care what they think. I personally would pay even $20 for a proper ending. We care about the game because it was so dang good up til the ending. I don't think anyone wants the game to actually end but I really think we all just want that happy ending.

[SimonTheFrog]

I want proper conclusion.

I don't want massive plot holes.

P.S. as bonus, I want photoshopped Tali face debacle removed.

[Jswensva]

at the risk of sounding lazy. This.

Aramina wrote...

Warning: Essay ahead.
I haven't had the chance to go through this whole thread, so I'm sure what I'll say has been said before, but these are my thoughts on the ending.

I do understand the desire for a "bittersweet" ending, but there is a fine line between bittersweet and just bitter. The whole game up to the end balanced this very well in my opinion. Yes, we had hope, but we still lost friends, watched homeworlds burn, lost almost entire species. What made all of this bittersweet and not just bitter? Hope. Even on those occasions when Shepard failed (what, you mean we're not invincible?), we still had the hope that, hey, there's still a chance to win this if we just pick ourselves back up and keep going!

The end of the game, unfortunately, was not bittersweet, it was a bitter end to an otherwise amazing game. There are several opinions on why this is. Personally, the plot holes by themselves are enough to make this a rather confusing end to the series. Some of the major ones I've been thinking of:

         1) The Mass Relay situation. Now, in the DLC Arrival we discovered that an exploding Mass Relay is enough to destroy an entire solar system. Most of the homeworlds we visited had one in their local system, Earth included. So, taking all of these established facts into consideration, no matter what we did Earth has been obliterated by the Mass Relay. All of the fleets in orbit are also destroyed. And every single solar system with a Mass Relay nearby has been destroyed.

Now, perhaps the Star Kid's solution did not make the relays explode, it simply "deactivated" them. Yes, in the cinematic it exploded, but I didn't see a solar-system-sized explosion. Perhaps whatever power was unleashed by the Citadel/Catalyst dampened the explosion. Even if this were the case, we can safely assume that Earth can no longer feed large populations after the Reaper attack. So, if this is the case, most of the fleets in orbit will probably starve to death. Turians and Quarians can't even eat any food that might be produced, and while not stated outright, I felt that it was most likely that the Quarians left their liveships near Rannoch (I doubt the Geth kept farms on the planet, so the Quarians would need them to feed their population until they established themselves). Thus, they would certainly starve, since they would only have whatever supplies are on their ships. To have any hope of survival, the fleets would have to hightail it out of the system to the nearest habitable worlds, hoping they don't run out of food first, and that when they do finally reach said worlds, that they will have enough time to plant food, hunt animals, etc. before the on-ship supply is depleted.

If you picked synthesis, you could say "oh, they don't need to eat anymore" (ignoring once again the exploding relays), which may or may not be true; we're not told anything at all about what exactly will happen with the synthesis choice. But for both of the other options, it's almost certain death for most of the galaxy.

         2) Star Kid's logic is full of plot holes, made worse by the fact that our Shepard suddenly becomes meek and sumbissive. This is not at all his/her established character; if Shepard just accepted things people told him/her, they never would have bothered to go investigate Saren in game 1. He/She would be sitting around on the Normandy, pissed off that a rogue Spectre got the better of them but unwilling to do anything about it. Shepard is not passive, and yet at the end we are given no chance to argue with Star Kid, or to even question him. If we did, there would certainly be a lot to say.

In some games people may indeed have destroyed either the Quarians or the Geth, but what about those of us who brokered peace? That is an obvious thing we would want to throw in Star Kid's face. "Look, you're wrong, the creations did not destroy the creator, they're helping them!" Even for those of us who did choose one side, the Geth made it very obvious they were not the instigators of the fight. They were not rebelling, they just wanted to survive. Why are we given no chance to tell Star Kid this?

Now, ignoring the first point, that still leaves us with some logical fallacies we are never given a chance to point out. To save us from being destroyed, you destroy us? Yes, supposedly the Reapers are the "vessels of civilizations", but try telling that to the species they killed to do that. Why kill the organics and not the machines? If Star Kid controls the Reapers, how do we even know he's telling the truth about their motives? What if they're really just afraid organics will make machines more powerful than them? And after all that, if Star Kid believes the cycle should be broken, why doesn't he command the Reapers himself? You know, since he just told us he's in charge of them.

And of course, the "Space Magic", synthesis. By simply changing the color of the explosion, it can fuse organic DNA into synthetics, and vice versa? Why does EDI become more synthetic in the end? You would think they would add organic components to her, since she's pure synthetic. How can this be done instantly, and without killing all the organics? How can it be done at all? I'm assuming (I have to because we're given no information on what
exactly this is) that this synthesis is based on Reaper tech, since it
originates from Star Kid. And again, if Star Kid is in charge of the Reapers, this is the absolute last thing we should want to happen; we're basically turning the entire galaxy into Saren/TIM. So...why does Shepard never question this at all?

         3) Joker leaving the battle. Why in the world does Joker run away from the last big stand of the galaxy? We know he's not a coward; he went with us in ME2 on what was supposed to be a suicide mission. He fought Sovereign in ME1. He also fought the Reaper on Rannoch. All of this was with far less at stake that what was now being fought for, his homeworld and the rest of the galaxy all hinged on this one battle. Now, maybe it was because of the explosion from the Citadel. But his very first thought on seeing this was "OMG run to the nearest relay and get out of here!"? The whole game was about the Catalyst saving the galaxy from the Reapers! Now it had finally activated! So why would he run away from it instead of staying to see if it worked? And all this is ignoring the face that at the very beginning of the battle, we were told very specifically, "There is no retreat." So, we're left to assume that not only did Joker defy direct orders, he abandoned his commander and the entire fleet right at the moment where everyone was waiting to see if the Catalyst would bring them victory?

         4) Magical teleporting crew members. In my game, I brought Garrus (my Shepard's LI) and Liara with me in the final battle. After getting hit with the Reaper beam, they were nowhere in sight. I was left to sadly assume they had died, but I couldn't even see their bodies to confirm this - they had vanished into thin air. So, I continued along to the end, picked my color (in my case it was green), and watched the ending cinematic. Joker and EDI step off the ship followed by...wait a second, is that Garrus?! So before Joker left the battle, he had time to go pick up Garrus from where we'd all been blasted. Yet he didn't check to see if Shepard was ok. Or pick her up too. Or did Garrus just learn how to teleport?

Now, maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe someone found him before my char woke up (very unlikely since no one was left standing). Maybe he woke up first. Whatever the case, at some point he was able to get up and walk around. Why didn't he, I dunno, finish the mission that was supposed to save the galaxy? Did he just go, "Well **** it, we're all dead, I'm not even going to bother to see if my LI Shepard is ok before taking off for the Normandy."? Even if I'd brought someone else with me, this would not have been in any of their characters to abandon a mission, especially one of this importance!

Perhaps this also wasn't what happened. Maybe he'd been buried under a pile of rubble and woke up after Shepard was already on the Citadel. He heard the communication between her/him and Hackett. So he, what, decided I had everything under control, so he could just go back and grab a beer? (or whatever the Turian equivalent of beer is) All of your crew by this point are hardened soldiers, even Tali. It isn't in any of their established characters to leave a battle like this, yet they do it without a second thought? We are given absolutely no explanation as to why our squadmate can end up on the Normandy after being in the battle with us.



Going with "the end was indoctrination" would be, while not perfect, certainly a good way to address the fan outrage. I would love to see this, and like some have suggested, it even allows the endings that we have now to stay in with something like a Paragon/Renegade check. If people like the endings the way they are now, that's fine, they don't have to pick those options. Since Mass Effect has been all about choice up to this point, anyone who chooses can have the old endings, and anyone who wants can have the "this was all indoctrination" ending. I don't know if something like this was planned, but as people have said on the megathread about this, it fits so perfectly it's hard to believe it wasn't planned.

Now, back to the idea of a bittersweet ending. Yes, I can understand the desire for this. This was a war, and war means a lot of sacrifice. I also understand that it is the writer's perogative to write the end they want. However this is not just a story, it is a game. It's also not just a game, but a game all about how our (the player's) choices change the outcome. It is also a game that has been described as having "vastly different endings". I honestly can't look at the endings we have now and call them vastly different. I call them 3 bowls of vanilla with different colored sprinkles on them. ME2 had only 2 choices at the end, and yet it had more endings than this game did! You could destroy the Collector base and die, you could destroy it and live, you could destroy it and live but lose some/most of your crew, and so on for saving the base. Also, even though the "choice" in ME2 was shown with a color change, this choice was supported in the end sequence! The dialogue reaffirmed that, yes, we had made a significant choice in the game and the game had changed to reflect that.

The endings of ME3 are nearly identical, with very minor clips thrown in to show if London/Earth had been saved or destroyed. More minor points being if EDI steps out of the Normandy or not and who comes after her. The only major difference is the color of the explosion. Also on another note, why is there even an explosion with the "Control" option? Last time I checked, data is not sent via explosion (maybe Michael Bay's data, but that's beside the point ). These are not the "vastly different endings" we were expecting to see. This image sums it up pretty well:
http://i.imgur.com/xUq9t.png

My suggestions for how to improve the ending:

         1) Endings that are actually different. No, different colors and a few 2 second clips do not count as different endings. As you did so well with ME2, different endings are most easily expressed through dialogue changes. My main problem with the endings the way they are now is that even though we are given the illusion of choice, the ending cinematic really shows that there is none.

         2)More explanation or changes to get rid of plot holes. When I finished the game my first feelings were not anger over how similar the different endings were. They were confusion over all of the plot holes I talked about earlier.

         3) Closure. This game was advertised as being the end of Shepard's journey. Personally I had come to grow attached to my Shepard over the years of adventuring with her. More than that, thanks to the amazing writing your team has done, I grew to care about her squad, her crew, and those she interacted with. I wouldn't have minded some uncertainty, but I was left with absolutely no idea what had happened to anybody. I knew that Anderson was probably dead (though with the miracles they did with Shepard, who knows). I knew that EDI, Joker, and Garrus were alive somewhere. And that was it. The end of the game left me yelling at my screen, "But what happened to everybody?!" If this is truly the end of Shepard's journeys, then I feel that it would help quell the outrage by giving us some closure for all those characters we have grown to care about. If, as you've been teasingly quasi-hinting, this is not the end, then why spend all the time building this up as being "the last great adventure of Shepard"?

         4) Endings that are different enough to evoke a range of emotions. I know this one needs some explaining. People play Mass Effect mainly because their choices can make such a huge impact on the game. Most people don't just play as a Paragon Shepard or a Renegade Shepard, they play multiple times as vastly different characters to see what changes with each one. They want to see what happens if, instead of being nice to the reporter, you take that Renegade interrupt flashing on your screen. They want to see just how badly they can screw the galaxy up. They want to see how much they can save by playing the ultimate hero.

By playing different ways, the end of the last few games can change how you feel drastically. For example, if you do everything wrong in ME2, your Shepard dies and you're left feeling, "Well, now the galaxy is screwed. Go me!" Even if Shepard barely survives, you get that warm fuzzy feeling that can only come with creating mass destruction and mayhem. In contrast, if you did everything right, you get to think, "Suicide mission, what suicide mission? Eat that Collectors, I just owned you guys and didn't even get a scratch!" This isn't even taking into account if you played as a Paragon, or a Renegade, or a blend of both, or who you romanced.

The end of ME2 was done in a way that allows you to really feel that how you played had meaning. ME3 does not. I was fully anticipating that people I knew from ME1 and ME2 would die. It was sad knowing I could do nothing to save them, but the only ones we could truly not save were Legion and Thane. It was still possible to affect the game by playing it different ways. *Note* I was amazed to find that being a Renegade can actually save someone for once! I like what you did there *End note* I was expecting that going into the end of ME3 people could die. I was expecting that Shepard could die. However, I was also expecting that if I did everything right, the impossible could be done, like in ME2. Instead, everything we had done up until that point meant virtually nothing. Guess what? If I played as a Paragon and united all the races, at the end I get left feeling, "Well, now the galaxy is screwed." And if I played as a Renegade? "Well, now the galaxy is screwed."

What many fans (including myself) were hoping for was that if we did everything right, there would be a "happy" ending we could get. This does not have to be a sunshine and bunnies ending. There was still loss in the game after all. Everyone has lived, fought, bled, and died to stop the Reapers. But like the Suicide Mission in ME2, I was hoping for a way to save as many people as I could. If you the writers had decided that no matter what, Shepard had to die, then I could have accepted that...if what was left of my squad could have been given their own happy ending. If I did everything right, why should the people my Shepard cared about suffer the same fate as if I'd done the worst possible job?

I admit, I want an ending where Shepard lives happily ever after. I don't expect that ending to be easy to get. But aside from that, I want to see that the way we played our game made an impact in how the galaxy was afterwards. If we royally screwed up, why stop at just destroying Earth? The Reapers could win and destroy everything, and the cycle could continue 50,000 years later. And if we do everything right, why not give a happy ending? This isn't a book with only one ending; this is an interactive story where you have long said the fans make a difference. You can give us the ending you wanted; a dark, melancholy future that takes years, centuries, maybe even millenia to rebuild. And then you can also give us the endings we as fans want to see. I don't mean giving us exactly what we ask for. I mean giving us endings that make us happy, make us sad, make us cry with joy or point and say "Wow, they're all going to die." With a series that has been so revolutionary in shaping itself to the one who plays it, why stop all that at the finish line?


I know this has been a very long explanation, but I wanted to make sure I clarified what I meant so you don't think I'm just asking for a happy ending. I'm not asking for that. What I'm asking for is an ending that is worthy of the greatness that is the Mass Effect series.

I have never loved shooter games; I've always been an RPG nerd. I played Goldeneye with my brother on our N64, a game that many say is the grandfather of good shooter games. And I thought it was "meh". I only played it because it was something I could do with my brother, instead of one of us watching the other play Ocarina of Time or Yoshi's Story or Pokemon Snap (yes, I like those games, deal with it). My absolute favorite games were Baldur's Gate/Baldur's Gate II. I was late getting into the Mass Effect series for this very reason. In fact, the only reason I got into it at all was because of the free download of ME2 I got after buying DA2. I figured, "why not".

Now Mass Effect is one of my favorite game series of all time. I honestly couldn't pick between it and Baldur's Gate. BG is only even with ME because of all the mods I have installed; if I didn't have any of those, ME would be my favorite game series of all time. You're probably waiting for the point to this rant, so I'll finish this massive essay of a review. This game series is revolutionary in just about everything. It is revolutionary in having a talking main char. It is revolutionary in making your good/evil choices actually matter. It is revolutionary in blending shooter with RPG, and doing it well. I don't want to criticize what I'm sure was a well thought-out ending, especially since it is your sandbox I'm playing in. But you opened your sandbox to me as well, because this company and this series prides itself on being one that lets the player shape how it turns out. I only want this ending to be one that lives up to the very high standards this series has set for it.

Staff (and fans), if you got to the end of this, you deserve a high five.

[Kub666]

Can I suggest not forcing us to play Multi to get all the endings? That irritates me more than endings. No, I won't buy anything from your MP store. Just drop it, EA.

So, if there is one suggestion I want to make, it is fixing the EMS in single player, or better yet, removing Galaxy Readiness altogether. SP should be separated from MP, always.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/10097009
"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point. It is a game. Not a movie. And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment. Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself. Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not
played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games... life in general is full of ****ty stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero. When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction. On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created. It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."

Brent Knowles knows what he's talking about. Too bad he's a former employee.

Modifié par PsychoHitsPeach, 17 mars 2012 - 06:03 .

[orenjikitty]

 Here's my two cents for how ME3 could be improved.

ME2 Romances
As someone who has 3 more save files, all with different ME2 lovers, I feel that the romances for ME2 characters are a little lack luster. At least add something more in terms of the relationship. Have the Love Interest come on board the Normandy one last time, even before the final Cerberus mission, just to reaffirm the relationship before Earth.

War Assets
I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt that it could have been better. Mind you, it was great but it could be improved. This involves the War Assets you collect.

Add something to show your assets preparing, just as you're about to hit the Cerberus Main Base. Get the Volus to start preparing bombs, have Miranda organizing her strike force, the Drell excercising as they make wait for orders. Maybe add Wrex and Grunt fist bumping as they leave Tuchanka for Earth. Have something to show a united galaxy preparing and Shepard getting feeds (thanks to Liara) in Liara's office before they hit the Cerberus Main Base.

Tali
Please. Please. This issue is small but significant to those who have wondered what she looks like since ME1. On Rannoch, when she takes off her mask to look at her homeworld, let us see her for what she actually looks like. Don't give us the picture on the side table. Don't just give it to those who romanced Tali but for everyone.

Squad Teleporting
I know it was cut from the final game, but Shepard should be able to see the team he chose for the end die or make it to safety. Something other than they miraculously teleporting to the Normandy and surviving. If they die, show that they want Shepard to continue as they fight off husks before getting lasered by Harbinger.If you have enough war assets, let them live. Shepard can wave them to safety, telling them to go and it's a direct order. You can then have them back on the Normandy.

Endings
I fully support what Reign Tsumiraki wrote on the endings with some tweaks.

If your war assets score is really low, allow the reapers to win. Shepard dies, Normandy crew dies. Earth is destroyed, cycle continues.

But here are my own suggestions for the ending:
- Depending on your war assets, the relays either get destoryed or they don't. As you guys said on the Arrival DLC, the destruction of a mass relay wipes out the system. Kinda defeats the purpose of saving the galaxy from the reapers if you're going to destory it with the choice you make.

If you are sticking with the color choices, give us 2 extra ones for a fully paragon ending and a fully renegade ending.

Fully paragon (Blue): Destroy - Shepard dies/lives (depending on war assets), Reapers defeated, Geth/Edi survive, no Mass relay destruction.
Paragade 1 - 75/25 Paragon (Teal): Destroy - 
Shepard dies, Reapers defeated, Geth/Edi don't survive, no Mass relay destruction.
Paragade 2 - 50/50 Paragon/renegade(Green): Synthesis - Shepard lives, Reapers defeated, Geth/Edi survive, Relays broken. 
Paragade 3 - 75/25 Renegade(Purple): Control - 
Shepard dies, Reapers defeated, Geth/Edi survive, Relays broken.
Fully Renegade (Red): Control - Shepard lives, Reapers not defeated but leave, Geth/Edi survive, Relays broken.

I'm not looking for something like Heavy Rain's plethora of endings but at least make our decisions count for something. 

Closure
If this is supposed to be the end of Shepard's story, then close it out properly. Do something in the style of the DA:O ending's with text. Show us the aftermath of our decisions, the rebuilding phase with or without Shepard alive.

Modifié par orenjikitty, 17 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[Jamesui]

I think it'd be pointless to suggest specific endings or portions of the endings. A change made as a direct appeasement t fans I think would feel as hollow as the current ending in its disregard of player readiness/choice. I think the thing we really wanted was what was hyped in writer, producer, and director interviews. We want to feel like we selected our ending through our actions rather than getting a token choice. We want to believe our actions had impact. We want a modicum of hope for the galaxy post-reapers and/or post-shepard, as the case may be. Sure, a true happy ending would be nice, for values of happy equivalent to "Shep lives and helps rebuild the ruined galaxy alongside what remains of his/her squad/LI". On the other hand, the ability to gloriously screw up the mission a la Shep's death in ME2 would have also been welcome.

As for what I liked in the series thus far and would like to see more of, I speak from the perspective onf one who played a Jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold Shep. I liked how she did what she felt was right, the politicians and naysayers be damned, strove to defy the impossible, and didn't hesitate to inform rationalizing idiots of their rationalizing idiocy (Balak, the original council, the Salarian Dalatrass, etc). Or rather, I liked that I could play her thusly until that fire was snuffed by the feeble arguments of a rationalizing, idiotic AI whom I very much wanted to inform of its idiocy before defying the impossible one last time.

[christrek1982]

Zhor2395 wrote...

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

3) I'd like to see Electronic Arts dip into its coffers and match whatever amount the Retake Mass Effect movement has raised by the middle of April.  EA's accountants can surely find a way to justify such corporate good will.

More people need to quote this!

qouting

bump

[mc_garnicle]

Mass Effect is not art... it is a consumer product just like Star Wars or the Simpsons or any other consumable entertainment. Nobody is buying your product for a philosophy lesson so don't ram one down their throat after 100+ hours of gaming. What if I buy a pack of cookies and when I open them I find an orange inside. Is it okay for the people that sold me the cookies to say "hey that's art, we put an orange in there to create lots of speculation". Is that a reasonable thing for the seller to do? Of course not... Mass Effect team - you are not artists - you are producers of a consumable product.

I liked Mass Effect 1 and 2 because they were epic space stories. Chewing gum stuff... What I wanted at the end was to destroy the Reapers... simple. To be honest I don't care why the Reapers reap... the nihilistic impression that the Reapers create over the course of the games is explanation enough and motivation enough to stop them (ie their motivations are unknowable and their plans are, ostensibly, unstoppable). I don't need or want some undergraduate, philosphy-light reasoning as to why they do what they do... all I need to know is Reapers want kill me so I kill Reapers first. Simple. Star Child is redundant, lazy and represents massive hubris on the part of the writers.

Can you imagine the end of Independence Day the movie where, rather than destroy the alien invaders, WIll Smith is taken on board the mothership and given some bull**** explanation as to why it's a good idea to kill all humans. At which point an ambiguous explosion goes off and Geoff Goldblum crashes an inflatable Mickey Mouse onto a small runway in Mauritius, having seconds earlier been in the alien mothership with Will. Doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

In short then, how about an ending that makes sense? As in remove the non sequiturs and the plot-holes that are big enough to fly a Reaper through. Something appropriate to Mass Effect, a simple win or loss depending on how you've played the games. Not some garbage, ham-fisted attempt at philosophising.

Modifié par mc_garnicle, 17 mars 2012 - 06:08 .