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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#1951
overlordubiquitousness

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BioWare needs to address the numerous flaws with the ending, as compiled in various articles and complaints around the internet. The best summary that I have seen of these is this one: www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/

As it stands, the ending is a complete and utter betrayal of Shepard as a character. When faced with impossible odds, what does Shepard do? Find a way. To deny the player that option in the final moments of the game is heartbreaking, and not in the "bittersweet ending" way BioWare was aiming for. It's heartbreaking because it's Shepard giving up; accepting what the star-god-child-reaper-abomination says at face value.

And I don't know about you, but my Shepard would never give up.

Modifié par overlordubiquitousness, 17 mars 2012 - 06:53 .


#1952
LittleDeadGirl

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I agree with alot of what has been said. I think one of the biggest problems with the ending is the cutscenes are all the same (save with different colored beams). It reeks of laziness on the part of the game. You should be treated to a majorly different ending based on the choices you are given and then slight differences also based on war readiness and also on decisions you made affecting every race. Scrap the whole Normandy lands on jungle planet with crew that in no logical way should have been on the Normandy. I get that it was symbolic but it makes no sense. Don't cheapen the game with it.

#1953
adroidmortox

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First time posting. I wanted to stress that I did like the game over-all, I think it's one of the best computer games I've ever played. That being said I felt that they could have improved the ending by including a "Where are they now" style slide-show as they did at the end of dragon age origins detailing what happens to the rest of your squad/characters/galaxy after the end of the game- something to make some of the choices you've made seem worthwhile.

#1954
ElectronicPostingInterface

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I personally have been very vocal about how I disliked the ending. In the interest of being reasonable and fair, I've outlined a detailed listed of critcisms and recognition of the good things in Mass Effect. I hope this can help clarify specifically why me and so many others are unhappy.



GOOD



* I know I and others say "everything but the ending" when this comes up, but I really mean it. I loved this game and every ME game before it. I'm a huge fan of the series. That's why I've reacted so strongly. But I will enumerate several things I loved just to show you I am sincere.

* Thank you for making Tali and Garrus squadmates! I know I asked for this many times before release and you did it. It was important to me for them to be squadmates so I appreciate you did this.

 * I was afraid we wouldn't see much of TIM. I was happy to be wrong. We got to talk to him several times and he even had a great funny line, "You're in my chair." When people talk about how they hated the ending, the caveat needs to always be made of: "Oh yeah the part with The Illusive Man at the end was brilliant." Because it was. Huskified TIM was one of the most intense conversations I've seen in media ever. I got chills talking to him and his final line about Earth being so beautiful...I can't praise that writing highly enough. TIM's arc was legendary.

* I loved squad communication in this game - it was so cool you listened to us and made it so the crew talked to each other. It was neat seeing Garrus chat up Wrex and Liara.

* I spent so much time after each mission visiting everyone on board. They all had great dialog. The sheer amount was great, I loved having the option to immerse myself so deeply.

* I loved the Tali romance. It was done so great. As a fan I feel like you really listened and wanted to nail it out of the park, and you did! I have a few complaints about it but it was overall great. I liked her teasing on the ship and the gesture of the picture, that was really sweet.

* Speaking of Tali: my favorite mission will always be Rannoch, the one where you fight the Reaper. I felt like the biggest hero in the world and the dialog was so good. I don't remember it exactly but it was like, :"No I won't let the Reapers win and have come her for nothing, this war ends today! "I love you." [Reaper Engages You] It was so great and emotional, it felt so real like I was actually there on the battlefield, I got really lost in the game at this moment.

* I liked how the Reapers were generally killed, they weren't too powered down. Fighting the one Reaper with the missile launcher was incredible in my opinion and a great boss fight, way better than Saren (which I still liked). It doesn't have to be super long or intricate but a conflict with light combat is still good. Something like this to fight Harbinger would have been really appreciated.

* We didn't get enough Reaper convo, but the one we got with the Rannoch Reaper was good. That eye was creepy. Way cooler than the Catalyst ever was.

* Kalros was like the coolest thing ever. The fight of Reaper vs. Kalros was amazing, Godzilla Mass Effect. That whole genophage cure mission was so badass, I loved going into the ruins and seeing ancient Krogan architecture. Dodging those brutes was so hard at the end. I really felt like I accomplished something.

* The moment where Mordin dies and the Shroud erupts into that golden glow of cure and the Krogan are all cured, I teared up. It was so beautiful and moving. I loved it so much. What's amazing is that I was tempted to betray Mordin because the fight against the Reapers mattered so much and I needed Salarain aid. This was a great example of a hard choice to make and an amazing moment.

* Going to Earth was so full of chills and adreline because it meant you were going to kill the Reapers. The emotional weight was so heavy and it was so exciting, avoiding the dubstep noises and rays of the Reapers. The suicide mission was better though, Earth...I dunno, I wish there was some kind of major combat scene even if it ended in a dialog conversation, you know? When you get to the Human Reaper you go those platforms. Clearing that to TIM would have been a bit more interesting than running to the beam alone. (Which was cool, I did like the beam, just...ugh at the elevator.)

* Although I really missed Harbinger as a whole, when I saw him over the beam with the glowing eyes I went nuts and was like "ohmygodohmygodohmygod," that was a great lead in to him. I just wish there was more.

* One of my favorite moments in the game is the "Tron" like level with Legion with the Geth consensus. I had a blast and it was so neat to get to explore the consensus.

* Eve telling you her real name was a nice, sentimental touch. I liked her character and how it mattered.

* The addition of segmented health was great. It made use of medigel much more interesting and added moments of feeling really at risk. 

* I've played ME always for the story first. ME1's combat was horrible, but ME2 had very good combat. ME3's combat is actually _great_, I love it

* You added just the right amount of RPG elements. I loved weight, in particular. It really factored into my decision making. 

* I don't usually care about guns in games and just pick the best one that does the most DPS, but I actually really liked the variance in this game between the Scorpion, Carnifex and Chakram Launcher. 

* Adding heavy weapons as a local mission thing was a cool idea. It was well done with Rachni mission, with the fire burning the webs. That was extra cool. I wish there was more of these opportunities.

* It's great you added gay romance options. I'm bi and had a hetero LI, but it was very cool and progressive of you to add gay options.

* Cortez in particular was a triumph, he was not a stereotype at all and a positive representation. Adding an official role of a shuttle pilot was a good idea, by the way.

* There's so many little moments I loved. Garrus being a better calibator than Legion, Tali being afraid of spiders. The individual characters are written so well. The inclusion of these is great.

* Getting to fight in the Cerberus base was neat. I liked fighting next to the corpse of the Human Reaper. The best of course was sitting in TIM's chair and fighting Kai Leng in the legendary "sun in the background room." That was a great moment.

* It was cool we got to so many homeworlds of the races. Visiting Rannoch, Thessia and Earth was great.

* I liked having to pick sides in arguments. A lot of the earlier ones were pretty easy but then they got really hard and it was interesting: like when I had to pick if I wanted to give the refugees housing or not. I ended up siding against the refugees, which made me feel bad, but it seemed like it would have really hurt the war effort so I made a sacrifice so they could be ultimately saved. Those were the good kind of decisions.

* The (originally planned, not the catalyst) key to defeating the Reapers was executed well. I had no idea how you would handle this but the idea of just, "Let's tell them about the Crucible at the very beginning" was the smartest thing you could have done. If it had came at the end it would have felt cheap. Spending the whole game getting assets and points to building it makes it feel real and like it will work. Finishing a weapon from past races working together was just great.

* Even though the actual ending is flawed horribly, the galaxy of war system was this insanely brilliant idea. How can we respent all your choices that change constantly? Cause A or B or C to happen? Too many variables. What about a point system that reflects mathematically statically what you've done and if it was ultimately good or bad? Genius - it finally made that decision to destroy the council make sense, since you kept the fleet which was blown up. (I didn't do this, but now that choice is harder in retrospect! Exactly what should happen.)

* The game is more morose than ME2 and ME2 has my favorite humor/tone, but that is to be expected due to plot. Thank you though for not turning it into a black hole of misery with no humor though. 

* Liara making a time capsule for future generations in case we failed was such a briliant, emotional scene. I hadn't even thought of doing this but made totally sense to prepare for the future.

* I love, love, LOVE the reaper monster design in this game. The cannibal looks so cool and I didn't even know until yesterday about the human arm! So sick yet awesome. 

* The Banshee is like the most "oh my god go away, horrifying" enemy in all of Mass Effect. Ever. That scream and that look? And teleporting on top of you? Aaaaargh! (In a good way.)

* Making Javik the Renegade's Renegade was a brilliant choice. He wouldn't have lived up to the hype if he was this saintly paragon of super wisdom. Great decision. I loved the look and accent too.

* Having Thane fight Kai Leng. I marked out so hard.

* I liked how most of the ME1/2 squadmates were integrated into the game. Putting them on the ship was brilliant - not having them in combat was a downer, but it is a nice and fair consolation to get to have individual missions and conversations with people like Wrex and Legion. The war room in general was brilliant.

* I liked that Thane died, personally: it made sense for his character to die and the scene with the prayer was touching. I feel somewhat bad for the ones who romance Thane since they couldn't cure him, but that never seemed likely to me.

* For all the moaning about how Vega would suck, he actually was really cool. He had a real personality and was a good addition. 

* I liked chatting up the squadmates on the Citadel a lot. Vega playing poker was cool. Where was Tali though, she didn't have a permanent spot?

* Thank you Bioware for not trapping me in romances and making it more clear when to not hit the paragon dialog option. You listened obviously here.

* EDI and Joker was cute. Thank you for making it optional though.

* The multiplayer is actually good. I am amazed. I was so sure it would be terrible. I like playing for the unlocks. If I can get invested in Mass Effect again, I will be playing it.

* By the way, thanks for making the achievements unlockable even if you didn't play multiplayer.

* Thank you for not turning TIM into a reaper monster thing. I liked how he died much better this way. Even his reaper-slave appearance was done well, it really showed the signs of his madness. (God that was amazing voice over.)

* I liked the Reaper mini-game for scanning. It was actually engaging and I had to think, instead of just scan. When you do it originally too it actually scares you with those Reaper noises. I love collecting junk in games if the process is interesting and it was here. (ME1 and ME2's resource collecting was tedious for me, by comparison.)

* One of the cooler "ohhh, yeah" moments was the Asari having the beacon as an explanation for why they were so advanced. 

* It was neat to see the novels actually matter in a small way: Kahlee Sanders, Kai Leng. I know I personally found Kai Leng more interesting because he's a murderous badass in the books. And going to Grissom Academy was neat, it was good interweaving the books and the games.

* The comics mattering in a small, interwoven way was nice too. Knowing TIM had been semi-indoctrinated in the past and resisting it for years is cool given the ultimate arc. Lots of comic callbacks actually, from Bailey to Omega's take over.

* I wasn't expecting to see some of the funnier callbacks, like the 15 credit refund. Was neat.

* That was nice fanservice Bioware, adding the Blasto dialog.

* I liked the option to paragon the oft-punched reporter. I liked the fanservice in general a lot, actually. It wasn't too obtrusive and it was great.

* Thank you for not inflicting Jacob on me by giving him a major role, he has as much personality as cardboard. Clearly, you listened to fan feedback. (I do feel bad for the seven people who romanced him though, cheating? Really Bioware? : P)

* Cryo Blast continues to be the funniest ability for me in the game, hitting so many husks with it.

* I liked that less enemies had shields/barrier and abilities were actually more useful.

* Taking medigel off cool down was a great idea, especially with segemented health. (Did I say I love segmented health?)

* I liked that if you took a bonus grenade ability, you could boost your grenade total to something stupid like 9. Fun.

* Bonus powers in general were neat, I liked how you unlocked them. And I also liked the respec system for Shepard and crew, paying for each rechoice. Makes it cost something to stop you from doing it every mission but lets you undo a mistake. 

* It was neat going back to Mars, the point of galatic "ascension" for humanity.

* I liked the promotional guns that were "free" like the Chakram Launcher, the Indra, and Reckoner Armor. That's a win/win for both parties, advertising and no cost to consumer. My dad bought Kindoms of Amalur for himself because I played the demo and I told him he would like it.

* I like the import to 10 upgrade system, customizable guns, the mods, etc. Very cool. 

* I like the Spectre guns, particularly the name of the Black Widow. 

* I liked the Spectre center, where you could authorize stuff. Maybe more bad choices would have been good? I didn't give the gun to the PTSD soldier, for example. Harder ones instead of, "I will be a good person rewarded for checking my terminal?" 

* I loved some of the "positive fridge logic," like Joker's family being killed by the PTSD soldier and the quarian dying on Rannoch being the dad to the kid who's mom died in ME2 in that comm message.

* I spent a ton of time just reading my war assets and having fun realizing how things I did mattered in raising the points, like getting the Destiny Ascenion. 

* Loved the Codex updating me on how the war was going. Great touch! Codex in all three games, actually, I'm glad to have it. Thanks.

* I hate it retrospect now because the kid makes me want to vomit but when I first played, the kid scenes were emotional for me: seeing him die was heartbreaking.

* Again, the kid makes me dislike seeing it in retrospect but when I first played: the dreams chasing him were haunting and chilling. I was amazed to see a respectful adaption of PTSD (or indoctrination?). I loved the whispers, so chilling. Great.

* I didn't expect to see Conrad Verner, so that's a plus he actually showed up. Lol at random Jenna appearance, had to strain my mind to remember who they were.

* Less email spam, more actual conversations with the characters. That's a good change. (Don't get me wrong, I like emails, they're just not enough. Email++ is good.)

* Killing Emily Wong in a tweet was a pretty brilliant idea, as horrible as it sounds on paper. Good job. Maybe more stuff like this in the future?

* Cerberus enemy design was really good as well. I liked the engineer, he was a formindable enemy. 

* The Atlas was so damn cool, and especially driving it. And the turret gun. These were great. I never really loved driving the Hammerhead (which was still fun, but not great) and Mako (oh god, the memory burns) and these were much better.

* The little touches are nice. Seeing the Mako was cute though on the battefield.

* Rolling was a great add to the series, it's fun to dodge all those grenades!

* Heavy melee was badass, gotta love those tech daggers.

* I liked Liara's character in this game, much improved from ME2's main game. Seemed like her again. 

* I really hated Ashley in ME1, she seemed rude and confrontational and xenophobic, in this game I liked her a lot better. I can't my finger on it but her character is just better in this game.

* As a general thing, adding minor characters who were not squadmates but friends of Shepard was a great idea.

* The story was gripping, I felt totally engrossed and invested right until that end. I cared very much what would happen.

* There wasn't a lot of side missions in this game and it felt shorter to me, but I liked the side missions we got: they had more depth and story to them. ME2's side missions were really hit and miss, so thanks for improving upon that in everyway beyond quanity

* Thank you for all the men and women who worked so hard on the game to make it this good! As you can obviously tell, I liked the vast majority of it! 



MINOR ISSUES

* Why can't I call up my LI to my cabin? I liked having the option, it was neat and showed their was personal interaction beyond just a singular scene or dialog.

* Why wasn't there a trial or people accusing Shepard of being a bad person because of Arrival? The court martial should have happened on screen. It actually might have made sense for ME2 instead of ME3, given the plot. There's just so much build up to the comeuppance of the people who were wrong about the Reapers and Shepard being in trouble for working with Cerberus and this seems to have just been left on the cutting room floor. Did becoming a Spectre in 2 again matter? 

* I played on Hardcore and it wasn't as difficult as ME2. I've heard others say insanity isn't as bad as it was in ME2. I loved the challenge of ME2 on insanity, and would like to still see that here given the combat is so good. Maybe a "Insanity+" mode?

* Why use a stock image for Tali's face? It didn't ruin my enjoyment of it in game and I still liked the moment, but the fact you used a stock image at all is off-putting.

* I want to see my crew wear the different outfits on the Normandy and on the Citadel - you spend so much time in dialog in this game, it'd be nice to see them wearing the different outfits off the battlefield.

* It would be nice if I could buy and give gifts to people other than Ashley, even non-LIs.

* Why didn't Tali have a permanent spot on the Citadel? She was only there occasionally.

* I really wanted to see Quarian reapers. A lot. Elcor or hanar reapers would have been cool too, but...yeah, quarian. Wouldn't even be that hard to do, just make them zombies with ragged textures. DLC maybe?

* I feel like Kai Leng would have been much cooler and fitting in universe if his garb was a bit more serious and he ditched those weird goggle shades. I still liked to see him, I had read the books so I knew he was formidable.

* I wish the entire suits of armor broke down into pieces. A lot of the "piecemeal" stuff was kind of boring looking. I like dramatically different appearances.  (Speaking of piecemeal, where was Kestral? I always thought that armor looked good.)

* EDI's face/hairstyle seemed really out of place to me originally, like Jetsonsesque. It grew on me ultimately but it...seemed weird in Mass Effect.

* The Cain one-shotting a Reaper is pretty silly, but it passes the "Rule of Cool." I was glad to see the Cain at least.

* The individual gun mods for armor-penetration made me think for a whole playthrough they capped the damage always, not just when firing through glass. That could have been more clear.

* I actually picked the wrong ending at the Crucible. I wanted destroy but picked control because the color reversal confused me. It could have been more clear.

* It's too bad we only got to go to a moon and not actually Palaven.

* I would have liked not having to state my sexuality as straight in turning down Cortez. I'm personally bisexual but didn't have any desire to romance Steve, just be his friend. Seemed weird to have to basically go, "No I like girl ass exclusively" to turn him down.

* Jack and Miranda I thought were the most likely ME2 characters to be squadmates. The fact that there are no unique new ME2 squadmates who became squadmembers is rather odd, but given my favorite two (Garrus/Tali) from ME1 made it, I can't say it upset me.

* Legion's death was touching but I didn't get exactly why it happened?

* Udina's reasons for betrayal could have been explained better after the fact. It makes sense given his character but there's not much why.

* There's a couple of random people who are loose ends: the prisoner who threatens your life from Jack's recruitment mission, why didn't Corporal Toombs come back to kick your ass? There's also why did Wilson betray you, who was Banes from ME1 but those are really not all that important, I wasn't expecting answers to those.

* I recruited Javik at the very end because I didn't want to have him spoil for me what the catalyst was. I thought he would have more answers I didn't want yet in the narrative. He didn't, oops, and I got him way too late in the game. Oh well.

* I thought the minerals I gathered from ME1 finally came into play with the Galaxy at War system. I was sad to see they didn't count and it was from ME2. This would have been a good touch for a few points, counting those data discs, writings, minerals, turian masks and medals for like 10 points each.

* I know it's stated in the books, but it's weird that the game never seems to explain why Anderson left the council.

* I thought in Deception it said the Grissom Academy shut down? Maybe I'm misremembering it. This is probably true since I can't find it in the Wiki.

* Where was that general dude from Mass Effect Comic: Omega Gets Screwed Over? And wait, where were those Reaper monsters in ME3?

* Although I like the system for the leveling, it is somewhat confusing at first: I thought I had to pick a path and stick  with it. And the bars below, it seems to imply you can only hit a certain point of % increase, even if you can unlock more of an option? 

* I kind of wish I could have picked up Tali earlier in the game to do the genophage arc, but I understand the plot demands things be a certain way.

* Zaeed was badass. I didn't expect him to make my squad but it would have been nice for him to have more dialog or be on the Normandy. 

* Some of the dialog makes you think people will join you: Samara, in particular, I thought she was going on my crew. I didn't really care because Samara isn't a favorite character of mine but it was still surprising.

* Kasumi's box didn't really seem to be that ultimately important in the end. Oh well.

* Import bug caused me to use default Shepard's face. The default looks good so it didn't matter much, really. I could "connect" to it.

* I wish there was a PC exclusive achievement for importing a ME1 character in.

* I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition and I'm still missing the N7 Warfare Gear. I paid $80 for a game and pre-ordered it, shouldn't I get all the individual pre-order DLC for being a loyal customer? I hate not being able to get all the stuff, I like to collect. Maybe give them away as pick up-able items in future DLC, like the locust in ME2?

* Day One squadmate DLC is kinda lame. I pre-ordered the CE and got it, so thanks for that - I would have been aggravated with not getting the DLC while paying $80. If I had paid $10 for it, I would have probably felt slightly short changed due to the mission to wake Javik up is rather short. I liked that it exists though, the lore is cool, so meh.

* It's sort of hard to tell which guns are going to be worth upgrading without saving, upgrading and reloading. It's also a bit annoying picking up a new gun and it being level one when you pick it up - you can't use it on that mission, it's not upgraded, it'll be way worse than everything you have!

* I liked that we could buy back old suits of armor from ME2 but I would have liked new comprehensive suits of armor. I enjoyed stuff like playing in Blood Armor. A Dead Space outfit or something would have been badass. Reckoner Knight, I'm glad it exists but it...uh...looks a bit dorky and out of place instead of "badass even though unlore friendly."

* It's probably good for me and Tali but it is a bit odd no one finds out or bring up that whole "my dad is a war criminal" thing. Don't feel the need to change it. : P

* I wish the updates in the War Assets were in chronological order, sometimes reading them it's hard to see what's actually been updated.

* Galatic Readiness could be a lot clearer, I thought not doing N7 missions lowered it and doing them raised it. Didn't know I had to play multiplayer - if I had, I would have done that first to ensure I got the "good" (which is still very bad) ending, which I didn't get unfortunately.

* Please give me PC versions of Infiltrator and the Data Pad! I really want to the messages from data pad, that would really enrich my game. At least could we have them for Android? I don't have an IPad type device. : (

* That Collector Assault Rife for multiplayer is expensive to get. Damn, I should have pre-ordered the art book. I thought I _got_ the art book with my CE but it was a miniature version, that was saddening.

* The lack of a "Don't Fear the Reaper" reference is hard to forgive, guys. : P Would have been a good achievement and an anthem, had the ending been happy instead of sad...

* Didn't tell me anything about those Keepers. Hrm. Would have liked to see the vats and weird things they do in private.


 BAD



* Lack of _opportunity_to change the outcome of the ending: there needs to be a spectrum of different endings. What we have now is about as grimdark as you can get, but I actually would also like an ending where the Reapers win. In addition to an ending where you survive and are reunited with your crew and LI. I always felt like playing these games that Shepard and my friends' ultimate destination was going to depend on my choices, which made them very important. Having it not be that way made me feel impotent and sad.

* Catalyst's existence: him coming out of nowhere is so out of place in the series. It doesn't help what he says consists of insane troll logic you can't even disagree with and consenting to his choices is agreeing with the idea synthetics and AI can't get along, which RUNS COUNTER TO EVERYTHING YOU KNOW about EDI and the Geth/Quarian alliance.

* Destroying the Mass Relays is not foreshadowed at all for such a universe sundering event. As others have pointed out, killing the relay system means lots of starvation for your dextro-DNA friends like Tali and Garrus, the probable ultimate demise of the volus and just undercuts the whole main part of the game. You spent the whole game uniting people and showing hope was viable: that genophage cure scene is one of the most inspirational things ever. That is followed up by that? It's so depressing. We're fans of the universe and the people in it, the races and societies, and while I wouldn't have minded major changes the killing of relays without a clear replacement or explanation of how travel or communication is possible is just too much, it kills the future of the survivors too much. I'd really like to see a way to save the relays or at least get another way of travel that is slower or something. I feel bad all the quarians who got their homeworld back end up on Earth starving without dextro food.

* The catalyst should have been Harbinger appealing to you about why to save the Reapers or something. Really, the lack of Harbinger was depressing. Everyone expected a confrontation with him. I was OK without their being a boss fight but some kind of "boss interaction" with Harbinger would have been cool, like the Rannoch Reaper. I would like to see Harbinger humbled and unable to process the fact the Reapers have been defeated, "This is...impossible" as he died or something, his AI brain rejecting reality even as he dies. Would have been a great moment.

* Tali's face not being modelled in game. After I got the picture I expected this to happen during the romance scene, and then when it didn't happen there at the epilogue. That it wasn't revealed was a let down. 

* The romance scene with Liara was good, but not because "lol she had less clothes" but because it was more intimate. The other scenes (Tali's in ME3 is worse than in ME2 and feels like a step back, people showering in their underwear) could have been better.

* Mac Walters tweeted most of the people on the Citadel died. The Citadel was the only hub world in the game, I spent hours of time there trying to help people and taking care of problems. Then everyone there ends up dead? It feels like everything I did is ultimately pointless. The Reapers could have kept the people there alive to harvest them.

* The endings are ambigious as to their ultimate consequences: am I controlling the Reapers forever, or just telling them to move away for now? What does synthesis do to everyone and how can a machine even magically alter DNA? When I pick the destroy ending and live, where the hell am I? Why doesn't denoating the relays cause supernovas like in Arrival? Wouldn't the Citadel being blown up and dropping on Earth like it does in destroy ultimately kill everyone on Earth? Why did Joker seem to commit treason by leaving prematurely and how did my squad magically teleport to the Normandy, weren't they on Earth a moment ago? What happened to all the characters and races that were the focal point of the game? How will people and races live without access to exo-suits, anti-biotics, special food and medication? The only reasonable assumption I can make is the death of the quarians, turians, volus as well as general starvation. I won a "future" here but all I know about it is that it seems bleak as hell for not only the people but franchise itself, if it must be grimdark can't some of the unnecessary ultradoom be dispelled? Speculating on who is going to control the political pie of the future universe between the rachni, krogan, can geth/quarian peace last, etc. That kind of speculation would have been good, not "what way will people die?"

* In general, the ending is a thematic shift that violates the prior premises of "your choice matters, hope, overcoming the odds." We survived a suicide mission. We were all supposed to die. Why wasn't the ending more like ME2 on a grander, unbelievable scale? I cannot imagine the emotional rush that would have come from defeating the Reapers and seeing the humilation of Harbinger.

* When I had to pick between saving the Collector base or not, it was very hard. When I had to pick if to kill or rewrite the heretics, it was very hard because I knew it would affect ME3 and the fate of the quarians, who I care about. I was tempted to kill Mordin even because of the need to defeat the Reapers (I didn't) and I thought Mordin was awesome and sympathisize with the Krogan. But I was tempted! That was an accomplishment. When I go to the Catalyst, and he ranted off options the fact he existed disoriented me because it was so out of place. He began to run off options and they were all "you will die and the relays will be blown up in everyone." I was trying to process the information and instead of making a compelling choice, I was instead asked to pick the food coloring to my general failure to preserve civilization. It was supposed to be a moment of ultimate triumph but it felt like everything I did mattered not at all and there was nothing personally at stake in my decision. A real choice could have been amazing: you can live with your LI and crew, but you have to give the Reapers to TIM. Otherwise you must die to save us. I don't necessarily want that choice but it is an example of: if Shepard dies, his sacrifices means something (stops galatic dictator) instead of (die because you have to die). There was no weight to my decision at the end because I was resigned to pick between doom-a, doom-b, doom-c. 

* I would have been fine with, by the way, if there was no choice at the ending at all. If choice must exist, it needs to be good. But if the ending is determined by your prior actions and EMS? I wouldn't be mad with not having a choice. My choice was all the actions from ME1, 2 and 3. Really having a static choice at the end seems to invalidate the idea the prior choices matter since you get the same options regardless of your actions. The horror of consequence would have been fine.

* Probably the worst part of all is how Shepard dies. Mordin's sacrifice was one of the most beautiful things in Mass Effect 3. Shepard doesn't choose to die, he is told he has to die because of arbitrary reasons that seem to have no connection to the prior plot or necessity. A sacrifice means less when he has to always make the sacrifice: he didn't even have the opportunity for selfishness. Mordin chooses to die even when you make a paragon interrupt. Usually interrupts are like, "get what you want" buttons (which is OK) and the fact Mordin overrode even your order was so powerful. His death had weight, when my Shepard died it felt out of nowhere and that I didn't ultimately choose to let go of the character.

* People ask you if you fight for individuals or for all people in ME. I always answered, "for individuals." Tali was my LI and at the end where you prep for the final fight, she says "I want more time." I was fighting for more time. I was stunned no matter what, I couldn't get "more time" for our future and with the crew. I expected to see them again after this was all over. The people, the crew have always been the focal point of ME. ME2 is a game dedicated entirely to your crew, every mission and the end is about you and your relation to the crew. Why leave that theme at the end, along with the themes of hope and beating the odds that show up in defeating Sovereign and ransacking the Collector Base?

* Even beyond an individual basis, I do care about people's general races because I care about the individuals. I care about the turians because I care about Garrus, the quarians because I care about Tali. Because it affects them negatively it matters to me what happens to these groups of people beyond the obvious "I don't want people to suffer." The universe itself has been a place of interest and wonder to me and to see everyone broken apart makes me feel like ME died, that all the stories are over. Couldn't the spoils of war waited for the next Mass Effect game? The ending of this trilogy shouldn't be impacted by the needs of the next. This its own arc and it needs to have its own conclusion, lest a vicious cycle be born of killing ends to preserve a future for the next game. I'm OK with saying goodbye to Shepard, I just want to see him in better health and spirits when I do.

* When the crew is stranded with Joker in the destroy ending, it feels like Joker stole my girl Bioware. That's not cool, guys. :V In all seriousness, if you were going to strand my crew? Why not at least strand Shepard with the Normandy? That puts an end to his adventures at least with his friends. (I am not suggesting I want a DLC where you just strand Shepard with the crew. That would be a good possible ending.)

* It seems mean to declare that the geth and quarians have a future where they can both live on Rannoch united, and even without needing suits, and that I can build that house with Tali...then give me choices where the only way I survive is to kill the geth (no suit fix) and to be caught on rubble on Earth far away from Tali and the crew, who are now permanently stranded on a planet without anti-biotics medication and without food for dextro people. Tali and the quarians will never see Rannoch again because of the death of the relays - doesn't that sound rather cruel given how uplifting that Rannoch scene was? I felt like all the great moments of the game were turned against me at the end, which is made it so bad because I and the crew had so much to live for to see it all fail. Ultimately, the lack of a suit fix is a minor aspect, the whole "you can build a house/here's your homeworld back" trolling is more annoying.

* It's lame that every cutscene at the end is pretty much the same, but it would be fine if at least something very different occurred after the static cutscene. In one ending, it fails and the Reapers win. In another Shepard died killing the Reapers, but the relays lived and civilization lived on. Here Shepard had to choose to kill the relays so he could live personally because he was selfish. Here Shepard got a happy paragon ending without compromise and rode off into the sunset, because he made good choices. Here Shepard fell into temptation of evil and decided to use the Reapers as his own thralls. These don't have to be the endings, I don't care really specifically to have a detailed 1 for 1 list of "endings must have." There just needs to be _represented_ ultimate divergance based on what came before.

* Marauder Shields, as much as I love him, is not enough as a final confrontation. TIM would have been fine actually if you had encountered Harbinger before. I had expectations of seeing Harbinger. Really, I guess, there isn't a moment of "oh wow, oh wow, YESSSS I'm triumphing, I did it!" that came when I killed Saren or escaped the base. I don't need Kai Leng 2.0, but maybe Rannoch Reaper 2.0: that brief boss fight was both tense and rewarding, and I would have been fine with that.

* I spent the whole game collecting war assets. Ultimately they didn't change much. It's hard to replay the game and make decisions know I know the assets change very little, undercuts the whole aspect of choice in the game.

* Where's my dark matter, dude? Every time I replay ME2 it's going to be weird to see these plot threads just evaporate into thin air. All those people died on Haestrom for nothing? This would be good comic material or DLC. (Or new ending fodder.)

* Seriously, I can't express enough how everything the Catalyst says is insane troll logic. Why not kill the synthetics if they get too powerful? Isn't the catalyst and reapers a synthetic presence themselves, so wait, doesn't it show synthetics can exist without obliterating people? Doesn't the theme of the whole game, unity, disprove the catalyst? Why the hell does Shepard listen to and accept this bad logic? It's coming from the master of the Reapers! Life would better if this was just indoctrination and it was undone. And I'd get crazy chills if the catalyst got the Harbinger eyes, that would turn something awful into the greatest swerve ever.

* The Reapers were cooler when they were individual nations, independant. The Catalyst's existence makes them less cool. It just wasn't necessary.

* The Rannoch Reaper was neat but there just wasn't enough interaction with the Reapers. I get you were being wise by adding "emotive" antagonists for most of the game but there needed to be more Reaper interaction. I know I was expecting to talk to Harbinger.

* The worst thing of all, period: beyond even ME3, ME1 and 2 are sunk to me. It is actually really sad and depressing to play those games now. I talk to characters and they speak of hope and it's like, "Awww, man. This means nothing." I feel like so much means nothing, so many choices I made that are hard now when I see them, I think "this means nothing" and I actually get depressed playing it. I can't really pick up any of the games and play them again, even though I used to love making different choices and importing. It's harsh, the whole lens you look over the series with is tainted and drags everything about Mass Effect down.  So much you accomplished means nothing in the end, it changes nothing about your ultimate choices. I feel hopeless and helpless in these games and that's not good.

* If you have to keep the current ending, could you at least explain how the hell it works and what happens? Can Shepard talk to Tali via QTE, email? Can he get to Garrus and Joker? Like, what does this mean for galaxy other than complete doom? It seems to be written into a hell corner where all suffer, which is awful!

Speculation can be good, but not when I have to make three choices that seem awfully similar with disasterous results and I don't know enough information to make a clear choice. I shouldn't have to speculate, "Errr, which of these would I actually WANT to ever pick?"



CONCLUSION AND MAIN POINT



The game is really, really good. I loved this game. I loved this series. I hated this ending. A lot.

Please give us a spectrum of ending choices. Let us stop the stranding of everyone apart from one another. You can make getting the "perfect" ending hard, but I'd like it to exist. It would be so cool for Shepard and Tali building a house on Rannoch. That would be a good way to close Shepard's career. I'd just like the option, even if my Shepard failed and died several times trying. The canon for a future ME game can be whatever, just let me pick my modular end to my canon in this Shepard arc.

I believe in Bioware as a company and have no personal resentment towards anyone. You created my favorite game series, my favorite piece of fiction. You've listened to our concerns in the past and delievered us many cool things before. I only ask for a new ending because I have insane amounts of respect for this company's ability to create great things. That's why I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition to this game in October, the only game I have ever pre-ordered and the only CE I ever bought. I knew this game was a special event.

I believe the ending was a mistake, and mistakes happen. I would just like to see it be rectified and for everyone to be happy, both the fans AND the developers. I'd like Bioware to succeed and be prosperous as well as I'd like to see the same thing in game. Real life has happy endings sometimes too. I believe this will work out in the end for everyone.



COMPLETELY UNRELATED:

This is hilarious https://twitter.com/#!/HarbyTheReaper 

Maybe Bioware should do stuff like this officially?

Modifié par PKchu, 17 mars 2012 - 07:54 .


#1955
Thumb Fu

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Kittenpirate wrote...

I want my blue babies.

That is all.



This... for the love of god this.

Either by a flash into the future with Liara and a child walking in a park on Thessia or Earth, Liara talking to her child about her other mother/father. Or even just the imagery, it would be more than perfect.

#1956
Scitenik

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Okay.

First off, I could make a wish list of all the things I would like to see, but I also understand that limited budgets and resources have to be taken into effect. While I would like to see the entire fight on Earth re-done to reflect your war assets (and really, I don't think it would be that hard to do, just add in a few background forces, chatter, or whatever. At least give the slight illusion that things matter, even if it's only audio chatter on the radio), I know it would cost a considerable amount to redo this sequence, and therefore, isn't feasible.

So for me, personally, here's what I would like to see for some new "endings" if you will.

One thing in general - I wouldn't mind keeping the star child there as one possible ending - the original endings still intact, if you will, to experience again in the future. But I do want alternatives.

1) The "Good" Ending - Similar to ME1 or ME2
- In this ending, everything is essentially the same, up to a certain point. After the confrontation with the Illusive Man, and after Anderson dies, Shepard struggles to activate the Crucible. He manages to do it, but just barely, and collapses. Afterwards, his squadmates from the final mission, or maybe his love interest, manages to make their way to where Shepard is, having made it through the beam - albeit having been delayed as they were also injured. They manage to get Shepard away, and he blacks out.
-The Crucible sends out a pulse wave of some kind that basically disables/destroys the reapers. Like an EMP wave, but specific to reapers. The explanation isn't really too important.
-Shepard wakes up in a hospital, either on the Normandy or somewhere else - but most realistically the Normandy. He wakes up a bit confused, maybe has a few words with Chakwas and his love interest. Not a ton of dialogue is needed.
-Shepard can have several dialogue options at the end, saying that either they want to rest, settle down with their LI, or that there's still work to be done
-The end, I think it would be awesome if you re-created the introduction from Mass Effect 1. The Normandy is flying off to do something, and Shepard makes his way through the ship, dressed in armor, heading to the bridge. As he/she walks through the ship, the crew nods to him (like Mass Effect 2 ending) and he reaches the bridge. The Normandy flies off, credits


2) The "Bad" Ending
-Again, everything is similar up to the point. Except in this scenario, Shepard dies after activating the Crucible. This would be if the war assets weren't high enough. His squad would have died, and maybe even the Normandy has gone down - depends on just how low the EMS is. The reapers are gone, but because the EMS is low and things have gone badly, a lot of people have died and been wiped out.
-In this scenario, there'd be a brief memorial for Shepard.
-It would be bittersweet - you win, but at a high cost. The cycle is broken, but so many are dead and the hero is gone. Their rallying point is broken. The peace is uncertain, but at least the war is over for now.
-Not too much is needed. Whatever surviving characters are left at the end could be on Earth, standing in the ruins, looking up at the sky as the explosion goes off. Perhaps some tears, perhaps just stoic "we won, but what do we do now?" looks. Fade to black, credits.

3) The "Worst" Ending
-In this scenario, the EMS would be so low and Shepard basically fails to do their mission. They reach the control panel, but the injuries overwhelm Shepard, and the Crucible is never activated. Instead of getting a game over screen, it shows the Crucible and Citadel exploding. The war is essentially over. Some brief shots of the reapers continuing to, well, reap.
-Then skip forward and have Liara's VI time-capsule being activated. We don't even need to see what race or who it is that's activating it, they can be silhouettes or whatever. So it's a very sad ending - everyone dies, the cycle continues, but there's still a bit of hope for the future.

I think this would be fairly reasonable. Three different endings, essentially the same until the very end. No new environments would really be required, only a little bit of dialogue, and minimal cinematic scenes (the pulse going out can be the same one from the original endings - it doesn't really matter to me at this point - in fact, using blue/red would be fine for the good and bad endings.)

It still leaves the story open for future AND past material, and doesn't change things too much. It would be a good solution, but it's only my opinion.

Hoping for the best guys.

#1957
Aran Linvail

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I want to give my feedback here to , English its not my Country Language so i hope someone can understand what im trying to say , and im going to keep simple no wall of text.

Endings - I dislike the endings just for one thing , Choices , i just wish we have choices , and that our work on the 3 games matters , in Mass Effect 2 i can save everyone , kill everyone , or save/kill half of the crew , i dont think we need 16 endings , i think we need different endings , if you work hard across the 3 games , did everything in a good and paragon manner i think you deserve a Good ending , A good end , A Neutral End , A Bad End and A total fauilure end is what I think the game needs.

Journal - The journal is Bad , the quests dont upgrade and is really a unfriendly journal , its not my major problem , i can live with it , but is real bad.

ME2 Romances - They get Little to No attention , its sad , some people may say that Ash/Kaiden receive the same treatment in ME2 , but thats the end , i think they need more attention , the new Jack look for exemple is so great , but i only spend 10 sec with her , someone may disagree , but i think Romances is a great part of ME games , and i think ME2 romances need the attetion they deserve , its the end for my Shepard , let him know his LI better.

PS : I really wish i could write in English a little better , sorry for that , i hope someone understand what im trying to say and thanks for reading.

Modifié par Baldurs Gate Fanboy, 17 mars 2012 - 06:58 .


#1958
MintyCool

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Endings were great. I say call it a day and move onto the next Bioware franchise.

Checkmate.

Modifié par MintyCool, 17 mars 2012 - 06:59 .


#1959
adastra35

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 Some suggestions of my own:
  • High-res textures. I was hoping that ME2's issue with having a mix of high-res and low-res textures would be fixed for ME3, but as a PC player, I still feel like I'm looking at an older game when I see some of the character's faces, their armor, and backgrounds. It was hard to empathize with Shepard and Anderson as they looked down at Earth, remarking about the great view, when to me it looked pixelated and unaappealing.
  • The ending, as is, actually had a lot of potential in my opinion. When the prothean AI on Thessia said that the Reapers themselves were only servants of the pattern, not its masters, you guys blew my mind. I was super excited to see what the answer to that would be. Meeting the the Catalyst, master of the pattern, and bringing an end to the conflict through dialogue with him would have been a good resolution if paired with some of the other suggestions given in this thread regarding war assets / plot holes / etc. The problem of advanced organic civilizations, as posed by the Catalyst, is actually a really interesting sci-fi premise and, even though the reapers had been built up as these unknowable consciousnesses that surpassed human understanding, this would have been a satisfying motivation if the Catalyst could have been made to appear even more vast in consciousness than the Reapers.
  • Tali's face - definitely dissastisfied. I was hoping for something more alien, like this: http://mischievousli...-Tali-244312608.
Overall, ME3 may be my favorite game in the series. The way the subplots and character storylines were resolved? I couldn't have asked for anything better or more satisfying. It was almost unbearable for me to say goodbye to all the characters leading up to the final dash for the beam. All I could think about was how I didn't want to go, if there was anyway to just stay here with my friends. I've never felt that kind of emotional immersion in a game before, and that is a testament to the story-writing mastery at Bioware. 

However, I'm afraid this ending debacle is causing me to lose faith in this company. This was arguably BW's biggest and most anticipated release in their history, and they dropped the ball. Big time. I will continue to support this game, but unless these issues are addressed seriously and with humility, it'll be the last straw for me. 

#1960
congokurtz

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SamFlagg wrote...

(Posted in this thread because I totally was taking to long and ended up after the lock in the other one)

Jessica,

First apologies for what I'm sure is the wall of text
flying back and forth which is contributing to the discussion being so
unhelpful right this second.  I would say people have to adjust to
actually having someone here.  Many of the articles laid out by some of
the posters do include the generalities of what we currently think was
wrong, but I can offer some concrete suggestions that reflect my
thoughts, and hopefully reflect the thoughts of others.

While the endings our our primary concern I'd like to address Earth and then a couple quality of life issues as well.

1.) War
assets - Many of us feel rightly or wrongly that we logically expected
war assets to appear either in game or in cutscenes during the take back
of Earth.  And the war assets I'm referring to aren't the space ships
above (Though those are awesome) they are the ones on the ground.  We
really really did want to see Elcor Living Tanks and bands of Krogans
charging reapers.  We wanted to see scenes of our ME2 squad mates
holding there own somewhere on the battlefield.  We expected the battle
on Earth itself to be so much grander

2.) I think a lot of us
expected Earth to be far more similar in tone to the ME2 suicide mission
where we could task crewmates and have their survival depend on our
choices previously in the game.  With the number of times Commander
Shepard is told that he was going to lose people, it was surprising that
no one on his current squad met that fate, and the ones who typically
would (Thane and Mordin) had already been heavily foreshadowed to
finding redeption through death (For the record, Thane Mordin and
Legions deaths were so pitch perfect that we find how perfect those were
out of balance with how much of a problem we had with the ending)

3.)
The section where you sprint towards the beam of light and harbinger
attacks all the way through having Anderson die next to you is
beautiful.  It's all emotional, and most of all it's personal.

4.)
Our main issues lie with the God-Child, we find his arguement
uncompelling because we don't see his logic, and we are angry most of
all because Shepard has been a character of definance against the odds
for 2.99 games.  And in the darkest hour, he does not have the option
really to simply reject the assertion that synthetics and organics will
always be at war (And the entire Geth Quarian plot line seems to make it
far more likely that Organics will try to wipe out synthetics than the
other way around.  We find fault with his reasoning and are for the
first time in the series unable to challenge it.)

5.) The ending
consequences for Shepard come down to three shades of death (discounting
the breathing), and the mass relays destroyed in all of them.  While
there may be an underlying philisophical discussion about destroying the
reapers controlling the reapers or merging all synthetic life, this is
far overshadowed by the very immediate practical problem of destroying
all relay travel and stranding fleets in the Sol system.

6.) I
believe this could have been handled better by having some options where
Shepard lives, but relays are destroyed, or shepard dies, but the
relays go on, or even Shepard picks the control option and the reapers
leave earth and the relays alone but go and reap the rest of the
galaxy.  The practical consequences of the three options are so similar
that their philisophical difference becomes irrelevant.  (To that end I
think many would've been happy for an option to be defiant, sacrifice
yourself, have the crucible simply bring down the reaper barriers and
make them easily destroyed by the assembled fleet, and hey if you have
enough EMS you can even save shepard.)

7.) Closure.  In this it
could've been done with a heroes funeral, or if he survived a simple pan
and scan of the area with his surviving squad mates and a "Let's go
home" moment.   We feel that many of the plotlines that were apparently
solved are undone because all the people necessary to good outcomes
(Like having Wrex on Tuchanka) are stranded in the sol system.  We're
not all asking for a Star Wars Medal Ceremony, we'd be perfectly fine if
it could be a bittersweet view of all we lost, but also at what we
still had.  (And if there are enough varient endings someone can get the
star wars medal ceremony, but that's the point we wanted the endings to
be divergent)

8.) The cut scenes were 80% the same.  There really isn't a way to not be unhappy about that.

The
other quality of life issues are: The Journal, The Face Import,
Multiplayer having too much of an impact on readyness, and the Shepard
Shame Talk  (when the models actively look away from each other while
talking)

Now I will point out that this depth of feeling is
because of a real sense of attachment to all of the characters in the
universe.  The deaths for the characters who had them were all pitch
perfect, which is why the lack of sacrifice in the last part of the game
of anyone on the most dangerous battlefield followed by destroying the
entire relay system is so jarring.


This is spot on.  Rather than parapharse these points, I'll just quote it. 

Also,  please consider:

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

Many of the points are similar, but it's another framework and perspective to work with.

#1961
WildcardCharlie

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I completely understand you guys wanting "bittersweet" endings. But please understand that to us, the endings don't feel "bittersweet." It feels like every choice is Shepard failing. The destroy ending is not a victory. Control and synthesis are definitely not victories.

An example of how the ending could be made better?

What if the choice was between destroy reapers/relays are blown up OR control reapers/relays are NOT blown up. Somehow Shepard would have to survive control/synthesis. Using Anderson's body maybe? This would force us to choose between Shepard being united with his crew/LI and the reapers still existing OR Shepard sacrificing his relationships to destroy the reapers. Now that's a real choice.

Modifié par WildcardCharlie, 17 mars 2012 - 07:03 .


#1962
fett51

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Since this thread is already overflowing with huge posts I'll try to keep it short.

For the endings, I think control should be split into a "get the hell out of our galaxy" option and the cerberus option, choosing to control isn't half as important as what one does with that control. Nothing about the Normandy's escape from the Sol system and crash landing made any sense, it was totally out of left field. That we have no idea where the characters or universe goes from here or how your final choice actually plays out is also really bad.

Other issues:

Unless the ending is actually indoctrination, whatever you were trying to do with the kid didn't come together. Fix it or cut it.

Not being able to rack up 4,000 assets without MP is ridiculous. That needs to be outright fixed.

#1963
k8ee

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I just wanted to add that I really thought there would be more emphasis on the fact that the reapers are entire civilizations, and that for every reaper that is killed, the evidence and what little remained of an entire people/culture is destroyed. I think that's a pretty big sacrifice in itself. I think that's something Shepard, at least paragon Shepard, would care about.

#1964
christrek1982

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Scitenik wrote...

Okay.

First off, I could make a wish list of all the things I would like to see, but I also understand that limited budgets and resources have to be taken into effect. While I would like to see the entire fight on Earth re-done to reflect your war assets (and really, I don't think it would be that hard to do, just add in a few background forces, chatter, or whatever. At least give the slight illusion that things matter, even if it's only audio chatter on the radio), I know it would cost a considerable amount to redo this sequence, and therefore, isn't feasible.

So for me, personally, here's what I would like to see for some new "endings" if you will.

One thing in general - I wouldn't mind keeping the star child there as one possible ending - the original endings still intact, if you will, to experience again in the future. But I do want alternatives.

1) The "Good" Ending - Similar to ME1 or ME2
- In this ending, everything is essentially the same, up to a certain point. After the confrontation with the Illusive Man, and after Anderson dies, Shepard struggles to activate the Crucible. He manages to do it, but just barely, and collapses. Afterwards, his squadmates from the final mission, or maybe his love interest, manages to make their way to where Shepard is, having made it through the beam - albeit having been delayed as they were also injured. They manage to get Shepard away, and he blacks out.
-The Crucible sends out a pulse wave of some kind that basically disables/destroys the reapers. Like an EMP wave, but specific to reapers. The explanation isn't really too important.
-Shepard wakes up in a hospital, either on the Normandy or somewhere else - but most realistically the Normandy. He wakes up a bit confused, maybe has a few words with Chakwas and his love interest. Not a ton of dialogue is needed.
-Shepard can have several dialogue options at the end, saying that either they want to rest, settle down with their LI, or that there's still work to be done
-The end, I think it would be awesome if you re-created the introduction from Mass Effect 1. The Normandy is flying off to do something, and Shepard makes his way through the ship, dressed in armor, heading to the bridge. As he/she walks through the ship, the crew nods to him (like Mass Effect 2 ending) and he reaches the bridge. The Normandy flies off, credits


2) The "Bad" Ending
-Again, everything is similar up to the point. Except in this scenario, Shepard dies after activating the Crucible. This would be if the war assets weren't high enough. His squad would have died, and maybe even the Normandy has gone down - depends on just how low the EMS is. The reapers are gone, but because the EMS is low and things have gone badly, a lot of people have died and been wiped out.
-In this scenario, there'd be a brief memorial for Shepard.
-It would be bittersweet - you win, but at a high cost. The cycle is broken, but so many are dead and the hero is gone. Their rallying point is broken. The peace is uncertain, but at least the war is over for now.
-Not too much is needed. Whatever surviving characters are left at the end could be on Earth, standing in the ruins, looking up at the sky as the explosion goes off. Perhaps some tears, perhaps just stoic "we won, but what do we do now?" looks. Fade to black, credits.

3) The "Worst" Ending
-In this scenario, the EMS would be so low and Shepard basically fails to do their mission. They reach the control panel, but the injuries overwhelm Shepard, and the Crucible is never activated. Instead of getting a game over screen, it shows the Crucible and Citadel exploding. The war is essentially over. Some brief shots of the reapers continuing to, well, reap.
-Then skip forward and have Liara's VI time-capsule being activated. We don't even need to see what race or who it is that's activating it, they can be silhouettes or whatever. So it's a very sad ending - everyone dies, the cycle continues, but there's still a bit of hope for the future.

I think this would be fairly reasonable. Three different endings, essentially the same until the very end. No new environments would really be required, only a little bit of dialogue, and minimal cinematic scenes (the pulse going out can be the same one from the original endings - it doesn't really matter to me at this point - in fact, using blue/red would be fine for the good and bad endings.)

It still leaves the story open for future AND past material, and doesn't change things too much. It would be a good solution, but it's only my opinion.

Hoping for the best guys.


now this is what I expected did no one think of this at Bioware?

Modifié par christrek1982, 17 mars 2012 - 07:11 .


#1965
luzburg

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endings change !!!!!!!

#1966
BWGungan

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I want to see the the Destiny Ascension (or anybody who you recruited) actually try to stop the Reapers heading to earth to destroy Hammer.

I want to see the Geth and Quarians actually participate in what is happening above earth.

I want to see definitively what happens to my crew and how civilization limps on afterwards.

I want to see the Rachni Queen take on the reapers.

I want to see the Krogan and/or Salarians make a difference in the ground war.

Basically I want to see how uniting the galaxy (or not) changes the outcome of the game, because right now, none of anything that happened means jack all in the final 5 minutes.

Quite frankly, if you unite the Quarians, Geth, and EDI and Tali are both alive, you should be able to hack the Catalyst and reprogram his ass to shut down the Reapers without ending galactic civilization.

#1967
Frank0605

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Thumb Fu wrote...

Kittenpirate wrote...

I want my blue babies.

That is all.



This... for the love of god this.

Either by a flash into the future with Liara and a child walking in a park on Thessia or Earth, Liara talking to her child about her other mother/father. Or even just the imagery, it would be more than perfect.

This:wub:

#1968
merylisk

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My friend posted this on another forum, quoting here:

What I was expecting:

Something like ME2, where instead of telling squadmates to do stuff that they may or may not die doing, you have assets. Like Uh, we gots to cross this no-man's zone! It's being strafed by Reaper fighters! Well, we can have the Geth or Quarians provide air support! They'll get decimated but we'll get across. Oh ****, you used those assets before. Welp, looks like you got to use some of your squaddies to man an ack-ack battery. They'll die but THE GREATER GOOD.

That's how you do a story with lots of loss but still the potential to get out of there. And if you don't have lots of allies and squaddies by the end, if you get to the end but you are alone, you have a set piece where Shepard barrels through and commits suicide to stop the Reapers. You don't make it every possibility.


Also, it would be neat if building up the Citadel Defense Force asset translated into a percentage of the inhabitants that could be evacuated before the Reapers took it...say, at the maximum level possible, half the people on the citadel escape. Still bleak (because it'd still mean millions dead) but not such a complete nutpunch, and at least it'd feel like you had some positive effect.


Modifié par merylisk, 17 mars 2012 - 07:15 .


#1969
crimzontearz

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MintyCool wrote...Endings were great. I say call it a day and move onto the next Bioware franchise. Checkmate.


this thread is proof that THEY recognize they were not

but I am glad you liked them

#1970
sentinel_87

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I thoroughly enjoyed seeing everything and everyone that Shepard has interacted with included in the final installment to this great series. Overall the game is outstanding and will stay installed on my hard drive for a long time.
Improvements to make the game even better
1.       Improve the Journal- It is difficult to know exactly how the quest is progressing. In order to figure out where to take a particular item I found, I had to look at the map to see what characters were listed. I prefer to read the journal to know where to go and how the quest is progressing along.
 
2.       The Ending- At the end I was confused as to what exactly happened and the implications of the choices made through all three games. The ending did not make me angry, just very disappointed.
 
a.       Something I would be very happy with is an optional “happy” ending with Shepard and friends alive. This should be a hard to get ending though.
b.      Multiple different endings that  are different and take into account decisions made throughout all three games (I realize the last part may not be totally possible)
c.       An ending were the Reapers win and the cycle is not broken.
d.      Something that needs to be done is closure. An ending that does not leave me asking what just happened. I would like to know the state of the galaxy/companions at the end of the game.
e.      The Catalyst, I did not like how he makes the Reapers seem less a threat and more a tool. Overall I did not like this sequence at all; it did not feel like a Mass Effect game.
 
3.       Multiplayer- AI bots and split screen/LAN options would be nice.
Other minor things
1.       It would have been interesting to see things like Akuze or Elysium come into play during the “dream” sequences.
2.       The only problem with Tali’s photo is the fact that it is a photshopped stock image. Bioware has some great artist why not create one in house?

#1971
crimzontearz

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Frank0605 wrote...

Thumb Fu wrote...

Kittenpirate wrote...I want my blue babies.That is all.This... for the love of god this.Either by a flash into the future with Liara and a child walking in a park on Thessia or Earth, Liara talking to her child about her other mother/father. Or even just the imagery, it would be more than perfect.

This

hell yes

#1972
TheOptimist

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http://social.biowar...5/index/9762561
The topic above has a poll in it that is rather comprehensive in what people would like to see done. With over 9000 (Hah!) responses, I believe it is a representative cross section of what people on this forum are feeling.  Among the questions were two that are germane to what people would like to see changed.

Question 2: If you disliked the endings, what did you dislike most about them?

98% of respondents said one of these 4 things:

The endings seem to come out of the blue, with no real connection to what had been established previously. 27%

This speaks to the synthetic/organic conflict the ending discusses and how many of the events in both this game and the previous two mass effects empircally disprove the assertions of the Star Child, such as EDI and Geth cooperation.  In order to improve this, dialogue needs to be added that addresses this discrepancy and allows the character to point out the logical inconsistencies they're being subjected too.  It also speaks to the fact that the entire Star Child concept makes most of the events of Mass Effect 1 a mystery, as there was no reason for the Star Child to allow the Reapers and Sovereign to be thwarted in their effort to come through the Citadel relay to the galaxy. It also references the way events like your squad leaving you and Joker's apparent abandonment of both Shepard and the fleet make very little sense.


The endings did not offer enough variety, and thus made it feel like one's choices were irrelevant. 26%

This feeds in to the previous answer with regards to choices about the Geth, Legion and EDI.  It also speaks to dissatisfaction with the lack of any real change in the endings no matter what choices were made during the game.  The endings also offered no look at how Shepard had effected the galaxy, with no epilogue and the destruction of the mass relays it was difficult to determine if any permanent effect was had at all.


There was no option for a happy ending, where Shepard is reunited with the people he cares about. 28%

Despite what some on this forum claim, this is a real concern for many people and according to the poll the largest single reason people disliked the ending.  Notice that a happy ending is not a necessity, nor does anyone want it forced upon all the games endings, but a large sement want that option to be AVAILABLE if one were to choose it.  I am aware of Casey Hudson's statements regarding bittersweet endings, however between this datapoint and one that will be discussed later I respectfully suggest including atleast one ending, albeit difficult to achieve, that allows Shepard and his/her companions to walk off into the sunset.


The endings essentially destroy the mass effect universe as we know it. (i.e. no more transport by relays)15%

This reason has less of a following than the other three, but is still a large segment of the population.  Essentially, people liked the Mass Effect universe, thought the way interstellar distances are traveled was inventive and new, and did not like seeing that universe wiped away.  Depending on whether or not Arrival accurately depicted what happens any time a mass relay is destroyed, this also refers to the fact that the known galaxy was essentially wiped off the map, the only surviving worlds isolated colonies that were only reachable at considerable distances from the relays.

These 4 reasons again represent about 98% of what people most disliked about the endings.  The next question deals with changes proposed.

Question 3. If you were unsatisfied with the endings, would any of the following changes put you in the "satisfied" category?

Respondents could pick more than one option to this question, to represent that many people would like more than one thing changed.


Normandy does not end up on a strange planet. 67%

This option speaks to the fact that many were dissatisfied with the way the Normandy appeared to have fled the battle and was subsequently marooned far from civilization.


The Squad Members who were fighting alongside Shepard on Earth are not mysteriously teleported to the Normandy. 72%

This is fairly self explanatory, there is no reason given for your squadmates to abandon you.  Further, I would seriously caution against an attitude of 'fine, we'll just have Harbinger kill those squadmates'. I submit that is not what people want to see done, rather, I suggest allowing squadmates to continue with Shepard if at all feasible.  Shepard did not fight either of the previous two endgames alone, and that continuation of squad presence should continue in this game.


The epilogue is not vague, but explains what happened the galaxy/characters after Shepard made his/her final choice. 82%

The single most wanted change is the inclusion of a more specific epilogue that reflects the choices Shepard made and the galaxy and people that emerged because of them.


There is an option for a happy ending, where Shepard lives and is united with the people he/she cares about. 80%

The second most requested change.  As I noted above, this datapoint reconfirms that a large number of people consider the lack of any option for a happy ending a serious flaw that needs to be changed.  I stress that this does not mean all endings should be happy, but people would like for that possibility to exists so they can choose it if they wish.


The Relays are not destroyed in all endings. 70%

As noted above, this is seen as a major problem because depending on ones interpretation destroying the relays is a death sentence for 90% of the galaxy, as well as making the civilization and alliance Shepard has just finished forging through out the game impossible to continue.


None of these changes would make me satisfied. 4%

This was the last option and is interesting because it suggests that 96% of people would be satisfied with the endings if all off the changes listed above are made.  That therefore becomes my recommendation to Bioware and Jessica.  Make all 5 changes noted above and think carefully about what those changes entail.  Those changes can all be incorporated with a few gameplay changes and 2 or 3 added ending options, along with an epilogue (which could easily be primarily text) that reflects the consequences of choices made throughout the previous 3 games.

Thanks for listening.

Modifié par TheOptimist, 17 mars 2012 - 07:16 .


#1973
Dylan1572

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Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...

*copypasta*

1.  Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes. 

2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.

3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:

Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.

Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.

Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.

Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.

High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers. 

High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.


Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion. 

In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.

To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.

The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.

The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
                                Synthesis              Take down Sheilds
                                                __________/ 
                                               (                       )
                 Destroy    --------(                          ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
                                               (                       )
                                                -----------------
                                               /                      
                                      Control                Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.

EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.

5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.

EXAMPLE: 

Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).

Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”

Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.

Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity

Ect.

6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM. 



Anyway, that's my whole view on it. 


THIS WAY:  
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place. 

How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone. 


I think the guy who originally posted this has the right idea.

#1974
Sp3c7eR

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Let me put a disclaimer first: I don't usually write on forums engaging in story discussion. I'm all for creative freedom and I've enjoyed many films with bittersweet/dark ending. Makes them all the more memorable. HOWEVER... I finished the game a few days ago. The ending was very powerful and emotionally charged, but it didn't make sense and it was not satisfying. The closest metaphor I can come up with is a close friend telling me they never want to speak to me again by a text message. Out of the blue. Here are the thoughts going through my mind when I saw the 3 options:


“Shepard, please, I beg you – your body is broken, you are bleeding, your mind is blurred, the pain and loss of that impossible campaign is tearing your soul to shreds and then pulling everything into a black hole. Inside you are much like the combined fleet you've assembled – you've united your whole being for one last push. And you face the Catalyst now. Please be strong and send the child back to wherever it came from. Refuse his offer ... for humanity's sake, for the sake of all sacrifices that were extinguished by the lack of a simple “No.” in that dialogue wheel.”

My Shepard wouldn't do it – she wouldn't go against her own nature.

The biggest gripes I have with the ending:

[*]The Normandy somehow gets to the Charon relay while all the visual evidence suggests the battle is still on-going. Joker would not abandon Shepard or any of the crew just to flee from battle. I think this has been said many times, but throughout the series he has proved his loyalty many times over. Even if he decided to do something
silly, it wouldn't sit well with the rest of the crew at the Normandy.
[*]Normandy gets stranded on a remote planet without technology/supplies/communication. Yes, we have the satisfaction of knowing some of the crew made it out alive. But most of the time it was squad members that were right there with Shepard when the Reaper beam was obliterating everything. How did they magically teleport to
the Normandy?

[*]The Mass Relays blow up. Maybe this was intentional and Bioware has some unknown plans to take the story into galactic dark ages. However, the information we were given from Arrival suggests a Mass Relay releases huge energy burst, enough to wipe out a whole star system. If Shepard knew the implications of this, I'm sure she would choose to fight till last breath instead of destroying all star system with Mass Relays. Sure, the Reapers may win – but we all knew what we signed up for. We knew it's not 100% chance of defeating the Reapers. However, introducing the “unknown until the very last 3 minutes” destruction of Mass Relays and giving us no choice or consequences for this franchise-changing action is NOT satisfying. It leaves a lot of questions, a lot of unknowns – and more importantly the big enigma of “was this sacrifice worth it?”.

[*]The ending's cutscenes don't differ enough to make them unique. Yes, the implications are huge, but we are not given enough information about these implications to make it feel satisfying. And while satisfaction is very subjective, ME3 promised to tie in all the lose ends. Instead the ending choices present you with more questions
which are difficult to answer, prompt speculation but ultimately paint a dark future. Why? Because controlling the reapers doesn't break the cycle. Reapers are still there albeit Shepard is in control. Synthesis is an ending which denies choice for the whole sentient galaxy. Shepard assumes a deity-like position of fundamentally changing life as we know it without understanding the full implications of this action. We are only given the reassurance that
synthetics and organics will not have conflicts any longer. But Mass Effect isn't only about synthetic vs organic. The Galaxy has been threatened just as much by the Geth as it has been by Rachni and Krogan. So if the civilisations decided they wanted to eradicate each other, their organic/synthetic origin wouldn't stop that from happening. In Destroy ending we wipe out Geth & EDI – a choice which we, as gamers, could live with had it not been the promise of the Catalyst that Chaos will return and synthetics will rise again to fight organics. This ending, not only the darkness of it, but also the limitations of it hinder the replayability of the game. Why would you replay the series if all you have to look forward to is a bleak end with consequences hinting at fundamental change which we don't actually get to see.
[*]Epilogue does not provide closure. Well, that pretty much says it all. We don't see close friends after the final battle, we don't know who survived or died, we don't see factions that were previously enemies shake hands or rebuild civilisation. In short, we don't know if our choices mattered, if Shepard's sacrifice mattered. Shepard has become a legend, Bioware tells us, but in what way? Does she have a statue erected on a scarred Earth, or Liara has taken on the mission of preserving her legacy? Why is Shepard a legend when, for all everyone knows the Reapers just blew up/retreated. Nobody else saw Shepard doing the impossible or talk with the star child. We are not given any answers on that. Did our Sacrifice matter?


So that's it for constructive criticism. My suggestions for improvement are all based off the above – we need more closure, we need to see consequences of our ending choice and our choices up till the ending taken into account. Show us the quarians and geth living in peace, show us the Krogan playing with their newborns, show us Salarians remembering Mordin, show us the Rachni singing songs, show us the prothean teaching Asari about their past, show us Liara/LI pregnant or remembering Shepard in some way. We need to see that what we did mattered else why go through it again or why do it at all? Why not just play multiplayer and strengthen your army that way – your EMS will be high and you can just go face the Reapers with all the N7 SpecOps behind your back and the ending will still be the same.



Please Bioware, I hope you are listening and I hope you fix this so we can enjoy the greatest game series in all its glory. It is your baby, your creation – so do it for yourselves as much as for us.


We don't need an ending changed – we just need alternatives/more options. I understand there were people who were happy with the ending and I'm happy for them, but adding more choice never hurt anyone and in that case you'd be pleasing a whole lot of fans who loved 95% of your game to bits.

Modifié par Sp3c7eR, 17 mars 2012 - 07:25 .


#1975
C Trayne

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I enjoyed the first 99% of the game but I found the ending to be a total failure because it left way to many questions open, did not have the variety fans were promised, and gave no closure to such an amazing series...
Questions left open
-Why can we not question the god child
-why are these our only 3 options
-why is the normandy abandoning shepard
-how did my squad mates jump to the normandy
-how did anderson/illusive man get up to the citadel
-if the relays are destroyed how will all the other races survive
-what planet is the normandy on
-If that little clip of someone breathing is shepard how did he end up back on earth

Thank you that is all