7052 réponses à ce sujet

[KatherineShepard]

I want to know where the catalyst came from. So maybe a book explaining...or dlc?
and i get why the endings were as they were....but maybe a dlc that adds a pathetically happy ending? You know, so we can feel all warm and good inside.
Oh yeah and many people who romanced Thane were disappointed with his last scene. Anyway to fix that?

[Konstantin]

why you people propose how the game ending?I feel the same like you but lets wait and see maybe bioware at all care about fans feedback...

[Grimmond]

RaenImrahl wrote...

Everyone... keep up the good work.  Thanks to all who have contributed thus far for bringing well-explained thoughts and civility to the discussion.  A reminder, here's what Jessica is looking for:

Jessica Merizan wrote...

I think I need to clarify myself. For the past few weeks, I've been collecting feedback. I have excel sheets, word documents, quotes, graphs, you name it.

In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.

Saying "this blows" helps no one. Saying, "I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C" is what I'm looking for. Channel your frustration into something positive (such as the RetakeME3 movement - constructive, organized thoughts).

Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.

Normally I would suggest keeping responses brief, but I also realize that in this case, you have a lot to say and a lot of nuance to parse.  So I would suggest that, if you're making a lengthy post, include proper paragraphing and maybe some headings or bullet points.  It helps.

RI

RaenImrahl - I can appreciate why Jessica is asking the Community for feedback (in my opinion, the ending or lack of ending grates). However, i have to ask why ?
Surely, Bioware (during planning for the games from the start of the story arc to the end) decided on a beginning>middle>end ?
Can you (or any Bioware staff members here on the forums) explain why they made a (seemingly) unfinished game gold and sent out to shops ?
And could they give an explanation on why the Community is doing the writers job for them ?

Just asking........

This (near total) silence  is really bugging me.......

[LdyBelial]

Wow – some pretty awesome ideas have already been offered!  And isn’t it nice that they actually want to hear from us, the fans?  Well… trick or not, distraction or no, I am touched and grateful!  Thank you Jessica Merizan for giving me at least a kernel of hope!!!

I spent much of my time last night trying to figure out what the best ending for me would be…  My experience was darn interesting!  I found myself fondly recalling moments out of ME3 and the heartbreak of the endings were a bit lessoned at the idea that maybe the endings would be changed and there would be some hope.

That’s what the endings need: Hope – real hope not a contrived, canned hope.  Not an illusion where we are forced to use our imagination to fill in the gaps or to get what we want. 

Now before I toss in my ideas about better endings I feel it only fair to point out that some players enjoyed the current ones – we can’t do to them what we feel has been done to us!  We have to ask that the original endings also be offered up as choices.  It is, at the end of the day, the only fair compromise.  We are all fans and deserve the same considerations whether we agree or not on various aspects of the game.

SPOILAGE BELOW BEWARE!!!

I am a girly girl and I am not too proud to admit that my optimal ending would be Shepard lives and is reunited with her crew and her LI.  I would like an extended scene with my Shepard’s LI – I feel we where somewhat shortchanged throughout the game play where our LI's were concerned, and I want more.  I want at least a HINT that they have a chance to build a brighter future for everyone TOGETHER, and maybe even children??? Yes, I want it all.  Mock me if you will – but we were asked what we wanted, and this is what I want.  I thought about it a lot last night and as trite and maybe overdone as such endings are – I think my Shepard has earned it.

But – Just because I am a sappy sentimentalist who wants “sunshine and roses” for my end of the series doesn’t mean everyone wants this too.   My S.O. (a.k.a. Significant Other), he would prefer a heroic death based on his participation and choices in the game.  He actually preferred that Shepard would have died beside Anderson while watching the Crucible kill Reapers outside the Citidel window.  He thought this would have been a perfect ending – For Him.  He would have liked some kind of montage that gave him updates on the choices he made – what happened with the Krogan, with the Geth and Quarians, what happened to his crewmates, that kind of thing.

I believe that we should have CHOICES for the end of OUR BELOVED Series.  I think they should be varied and REALLY DIFFERENT.  I think that they should be earned through our play – we choose the path we want, we get the ending we want.  This would make the game’s PLAYABILITY skyrocket!!!  I know I would play it over and over and over again to experience the various endings.  Not just to enjoy the various characters I’ve already created through my many play-throughs of ME1 and 2 either but because ME3 – outside of the endings – is, for the most part, an AMAZING GAME!!!!  And I am betting I am not alone here.

We should have a happy ending, a heroic ending, a FUBARED ending and of course – the original endings.

Lastly…  Because I know there are others out there not just myself who feel this way…  We realize that ME3 was not geared toward RP but FPS – we would have liked more RP throughout the game if that is at all a possiblity?  More intimate conversations with our LI, crew and friends, much like we were given in ME2?  But, yes... that really is a discussion for another thread.  

Just my two cents… but thanks for listening!
Lan

Modifié par LdyBelial, 17 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[zaniety]

First off, I love Mass Effect as a series.  From that frist walk around the Citadel, meeting all these aliens, seeing them live together on a station, everyone just info dumping everything about their race when you ask, to the combat, which was always fantastic, a "spell" system I could actually understand without cracking a book, to the narrative of the Reapers, these enemies who do not even see themselves as enemies (or even on the same plane as our heros) but, eventually, can be enraged by them, to the Normandy, a ship I feel more empathy towards than any fictional vessel I've ever heard about, even before EDI!  All these things went into ME3 beautifully.  It was the perfect culmination of the series, until the last 10 minutes.

Other things I liked:

The deaths of former squadmates: I've only seen Thane, Mordin and Legion die (thankfully, I say), but each one had an amazing chance to help the Galaxy as a whole, and succeded!  Thane started the breakdown of Kai Leng, and indirectly delievered the Salarians, Mordin cured the genophage, which, in the best ending, starts looking damn hopeful, and Legion was to the Geth what the Prothens were to the Hanar (according to them), he enkindled them, sacrificing himself, singular, to give his people a great gift.  They were all big heros, doing something only they could do, going toe to toe with another assassin, dividing himself to give a gift, or being the very model of a scientist Salarian.

That kind of rolls into my next point, which is all the other characters.  They all stay true to form.  Tali is just as a amazed as could be peace with the geth looks possible, Garrus doesn't have a chance to be Archangel, he has to be his inner hero and tactician for his people, Javik is beautifully written, and learns about our cycle through jaded eyes.  Everyone stepped up to the plate in banter, cheering eachother through the rough spots.  It was the best Bioware game yet in that regard.

The rest of the things I liked are relatively minor compared to that point:

The Galaxy map was fun, and nervewracking.  The combat was even tighter than ME2, a properly developed squad can really be a force.  The weapon upgrade system will keep me playing multiplayer for a long time, and makes the singleplayer game better as well.  (Small point, I wish there was a way to "gift" weapons to other Shepards, so I could eventually have a Normandy with all weapons fully upgraded.)  The multiplayer is fun, more than I expected it to be, and addictive (what's in that next Spectre pack!).

The things I didn't like:

Some glitches, I didn't see Conrad until he jumped in front of my gun in my first playthough, which was...jarring.  I get stuck talking to joker in the floor, Liara often just spins around in conversations for no reason, and Shepard's head often is looking the wrong way.  The journal:  a collapsable journal would make things so much easier to figure out.  Have I talked to Barla Von yet?  Did I get those Rings, or would going to Huerta be pointless right now?  Stuff like that.

But mainly, what I didn't like, is, you guessed it, the ending.  I get in terms of money and time and variables why we can't see Geth armatures coming to the aid of Krogan, who are stricking a bansee while Jack's squad provides barriers for Salarian STG trying to get close (for instance).  I think there is potential for a lot of stories about the battle for Earth as DLC (like a Leliana's Song type thing, where you play Miranda, or Grunt, or Jack in a battle on Earth).  If you do that as DLC, great, if you don't it doesn't matter that much.

The main thing that I really thing has to be changed, is everything from when Harbinger's beam hits you.

From that point on nothing your Shepard did in the rest of the game matter (except for the vaugue EMS number which makes no logical contributrion to the end, and whether you Paragon'd or Renegade'd the Illusive Man before then).  Literally, nothing else matters.  You can't mention the fact that the Geth are at peace now, and that EDI is pretty damn preferencial of humans now, you can't call on Joker or anyone else to come over to the big hulking platform open to space.  You can't ask Hacketts opinion, or EDI's, or warn the Geth to head to dark space while the weapon is active, or do anything with your War Assets, you can't ask, "Why do the relays need to be destroyed, can we shut down the Charon relay, destroy the bulk of Reaper forces here, then mop up the rest later while keeping the relays?"  You can't find a compromise, persuade, or do anything that Mass Effect has been up to that every point.

Shepard isn't himself/herself in the end.  There is a very good chance Shepard is being indoctrinated, as presented.  TIM used indoctrination technology to get Shepard to shoot Anderson in the abdomin, no matter what.  And, since the God child acknowledged that TIM was indoctrinated, no matter what, Shepard has had the seed planted of indoctrination.  Control and Synthesis are now extremely dangerous.  Shepard would mention that!  Shepard would call Joker!  Or Hackett!  I get it, the game is about Shepard getting tired, but he wouldn't give up at this point.  So, either, Shepard is fully indoctrinated at this point, very dumb, which Shepard is not, or is tired to care, which is the opposite of the point of the rest of the game, invalidating the "What do you need me to do?" he said just a minute before.

There are thematic problems as well, which others have said much better than I could, and terrrible logistic and character problems with Joker and the crew, which are detailed better in other places.

tl:dr; I didn't know how much people disliked the ending until after I finished it.  I myself enjoyed ME until the last ten minutes of the of the game.  The problems with the ending are numerous, but fixable.  My suggestion, go with the indoctrination theory, even if it wasn't your plan.  Have an abbriviated TIM battle, and just scrap the God child alltogether (it was a Harbinger ploy, nothing more).  No choices, the Crucible just works, but the Reapers attack it before it can fire, your EMS determines if it only wipes out the destroyers, if it wipes out everything in the Sol system, or if it reaches through the relays and ends the Reaper threat everywhere.  Then have a dang epiloge like DA:O or the Fallout games.  Our Shepards have earned some peace of mind.

Modifié par zaniety, 17 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[MeldarthX]

Right; there has been some awesome posts -

I'll just cliff note because most have covered everything already.

One - Starchild goes against cannon set in the other games - you find out ME 1 - Reapers control the Cid; not the other way around; Its a giant relay that they use to spring upon goverment to take out the leaders - makes it easier then to wipe out the civis. Reason why this fails is because Proth set up the sabatosh*sp*

Two - blowing up a mass Relay - again cannon shows us - you take one out - bye bye solar system. Its a super nova like blast. Talk about wth moment. You've just become the worst genocide in history. You have wiped out the galaxy in one of 3 color coded choices.

3 - what the hell happened to Dark matter? It was pretty big in ME 1; and it was everywhere in ME 2?? So suddenly Dark matter is gone; we don't know why it was threat; if it was or what the hell was it? Did it just decide to pack up and go into a black hole? You can't leave that massive amount of cannon of the end - or if you're setting up for later - make sure you write it in.

4 - Macduff - Deus Ex Machina endning - sorry as a writer - there's no excuse for this. Its weak writing. I know I'm sounding harsh; but as writers we have to be willing to deal with it. This is why we work with publishers and they smack us around when we want to do something like this. You gave us so many amazing stories within here; just in ME3 alone; Mordin dieing curing Geophage - amazing - Legion - Thane - emergency induction port........Come on; I dont' need to say more.

5 - you said there are amazing 16 different endings. No there is one ending that pallette change. Ok, Ok; I'll give the fact you blow up the earth or big ben also. So 3 slightly pallette colored changing endings; or as one poor soul tweeted. One as he's color blind. That is all that needs to be said there.

6 - Quest system; what happened to it?? its there but then hides from you going; you got to guess if you've complete; oh you failed timed mission. There was a timed mission?!?! This is supposed to be an rpg; working quest log is a must.

7 - What happened to being able to go up and randomly talk to anyone? I so missed that in ME3 - I loved the fact in ME 1 and ME 2 I could talk to anyone; didn't matter they would talk to me. If they have something to say to me; they would; or they'd blow me off; but at least they'd talk to me...and not just snub me

Right that's out of the way.

What was done right? Most of the game; I mean even the bits with the quest log and not being able to talk to anyone. That didn't bug me all that much as the stories were that well put together. You really crafted those well - this wasn't just Shepard's story - this was our Shepard's story. We were living it; feeling it breathing it. That's success.

Indoctrintion - if you actually meant it; its a great way to write yourself out of this mess of an ending. Set up final fight with Harbringer or TIM if you still want; or both? War assets allow to see how we actually do. I mean the amount of fire power we're hold is bigger than anything the Reapers ever seen even with Protheans. I can easily see why they tried to take down Shepard right then and there. You take out the leader; the system........you take the fight out rest of them. You don't.......you're screwed.

This wasn't a bittersweet ending because to end - is to give closure. There was none; this was like a 1930's radio cliffhanger with Rockteer - Lone Ranger. I'd prefer to have the chance to actually pull off the impossible again - that's the legend - that is what we've built over the last 3 games. Doing the impossible; never giving up hope.......

I'd love to have blue babies with Liara with this build I have with Shepard; or my other one - build that house for Tali.....

Sure if we screw up - don't bring enough war assets; we die; you can even set it up for reapers to wipe us out; bittersweet.......we win but our Shepard dies in getting that win. Those we can live with. Choices - we were told they'd matter. We weren't going to get A, B or C ending.......and you weren't doing a Lost....

Right now the way the ending is - you've done all three - If rumors are true; this was done because of the leak - and DLC "The Truth" is actually coming - but its not finalized as you're getting our input. I will bow to you and say bravo - because then - closure - being actually able to win or not - you will have insanely pulled off - indoctrinating not just our Shepards.........but us also - thus creating one of the best games I've played ever. Even with those small niggles......

I sign this;

Meldarth Shepard - I WILL HOLD THE LINE

Modifié par MeldarthX, 17 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[Dune5712]

MORE HAPPY.

But really more clousre. More than 3 freakin' choices for the end of such a series...I spent so long doing EVERY SINGLE side quest, getting all assets, MP for galactic readiness, full paragon...and what did that do? Nothing.

[clafount]

durasteel wrote...

Among the issues many of us had with the ending of Mass Effect 3, I think one of the most important – although not the most frequently discussed – is what emerges as the central theme in the final few minutes. We are removed from the driving impetus of the rest of the game (save the Earth, save the Galaxy) and thrust instead into the position of being the ultimate arbiter between organic and synthetic beings. Setting aside, for the moment, whether that last-minute change in theme is a good idea, I think that the treatment of the theme itself deserves some discussion.

The theme of the relationship between organic and synthetic beings might not the central story of the rest of the game (or the series,) but it is certainly present and drives some of the sub-plots. By the time we reach the Crucible, we have had several chances to consider this relationship and its implications, and Shepard will have made a number of important decisions that shape the narrative up to that point. In each of them, questions are raised and answers demanded. “Does this unit have a soul?” is perhaps the most direct example of this, but the questions are deep and the answers meaningful.

On Rannoch, we see the nobility and life-affirming sacrifice that synthetics are capable of. Shepard is able to bring organic and synthetic beings into peaceful cooperation, going far beyond simple coexistence. By accepting and embracing the simple right to exist of the Geth, Shepard proves in an unequivocal way that synthetics and organics do not have to be in conflict.

In the relationship between Joker and EDI, Shepard is able to prove again that the most artificial thing within that dynamic is the perceived boundary between synthetic and organic persons. Once the prejudice is overcome, and AI and an OI (organic intelligence) can interact and become familiar with each other, with all the charming awkwardness of any two people of different backgrounds.

A related theme throughout the game is self-determination. The Krogan clearly deserve the right to set their own destiny, neither uplifted by the Salarians nor pacified by the Turians. Curing the Genophage is a clear metaphor for empowering the Krogan to decide for themselves how they will pursue a role in the galaxy, with the understanding that even if they choose poorly, it is a choice they should have the opportunity to make. This same theme applies to the Rachni, and Shepard can champion their prerogative to determine for themselves how to exist, without mad scientists or Robo-Cthulhu forcing them towards a pre-determined role. This theme is no less prevalent with the Geth, as Shepard decides whether their fate will be their own, or they have no existence beyond being slaves to the Quarians and pawns of the Reapers. In fact, the almost identical situations Shepard faces with both the Geth and the Rachni become an important piece of the synthetic/organic dynamic, showing that each is capable of being dominated by either organics or synthetics, and each presents Shepard with a moving plea for its right to simply exist on its own terms.

As Shepard races to save Earth and the Galaxy, another dynamic emerges. At the end of the previous game, the antagonist and face of the enemy is established as Harbinger. As we progress through this game, however, we find Shepard more often than not facing forces under the control of the Illusive Man. The cold, calculating menace of Harbinger and the fierce zealotry of the Illusive Man are each dangerous in their own right. Both organic beings and synthetic beings are capable of atrocities and generally abhorrent behavior. Interestingly, when you combine these two through indoctrination, things get a lot worse.

All of this weaves into a textured and nuanced thematic fabric before the end of the game. A paragon Shepard probably reaches this point with the understanding that both organic and synthetic beings are capable of heroism and villainy. Both are deserving of the chance to exist on their own terms, both are capable of self-sacrifice and love, and it is even possible for love to flourish and grow between synthetic and organic. Paragon Shepard will be in a position to understand full well that in Mass Effect, the biggest barrier to peaceful and cooperative coexistence between the created and their creators is the attitude that it isn’t possible.

The end shreds that fabric.

At the end, Shepard is told The Way It Is by the star child god being. This entity, the Catalyst, is for all intents and purposes The Voice of God. It is the origin of the problem, and its solution. It speaks with apparent omniscience, even making predictive statements about the future with no equivocation. Shepard cannot question, cannot argue, cannot refuse.

Setting aside for the moment any issues people have (and I have many) with the character of the Star Child and the encounter with it, the fundamental statement of The Way It All Is made by the Catalyst goes completely against the principles established by a Paragon Shepard. The Catalyst makes a statement of inarguable fact that organic and synthetic beings cannot coexist peacefully, that synthetics are destined to surpass and destroy organics. Therefore, The Voice of God forces Shepard to choose from among three unappealing options.

The Red choice reinforces the principle that organic and synthetic beings cannot coexist. Despite the fact that Shepard has peacefully coexisted with every AI he has encountered other than the Reapers, all AI is grouped together as an enemy of organic life here. It is a stark rejection of Legion’s soul, and it is predicated on an “us versus them” attitude that previous events and narrative in the game have unequivocally proven to be a fallacy.

The Blue choice isn’t much better. Despite the strong recurring theme of free will, Shepard forces his will upon the Reapers, making them his puppets. Not only does this reduce the big boogey-man of the Mass Effect series to little more than over-sized pawns, but it completely strips away the possibility of making a paragon argument that coexistence is possible between AI and OI. The Voice of God tells Shepard, in a way that cannot be questioned or argued with, that this coexistence is not possible. If you take control of the Reapers and cease the reaping, it will not lead to peace, but will lead instead to chaos when synthetics inevitably decide to purge organic life from the galaxy, never mind the fact that the only synthetic life that seems to be doing anything of the sort is, you know… Reapers (under the control and at the direction of the Catalyst, currently appearing as the star child and speaking as The Voice of God.)

The Green choice… Well, let’s set aside the discussion of digitizing Shepard into a universal virus (retrovirus + computer virus) to rewrite all genetic code and computer code in the galaxy to make everything into a synthetic/organic hybrid via the space magic of big green explosions. Even if that hand-waving is acceptable, you are still left with the underlying premise that this is (unarguably and without question) the next stage of evolution, and the only viable permanent solution to the (unarguable and unquestionable) inevitable conflict between organic life and its synthetic creations. Again, coexistence cannot be; assimilation is the only sustainable way forward. This basically goes against every principle established by a Paragon Shepard. Free will and self-determination go out the window, Shepard and the Catalyst will re-write you for your own good (which isn’t like making husks at all, right?) Respecting the diversity of beings, including refusing to exterminate entire species and acknowledging the right of Geth to exist as self-aware machine sentients, is dust in the wind as Shepard and the Catalyst homogenize every thinking thing in the galaxy.

The Mass Effect series is truly remarkable. There is a line in the song “Thick as a Brick” by Jethro Tull that goes “I may make you feel, but I can’t make you think.”  Mass Effect accomplishes both, drawing the player into the action, into the emotion, and into the philosophy of it all. Legion and EDI make you question what intelligence, self-awareness, and even life really mean. Does this unit have a soul? Legion has as much of one as any character in the trilogy. Can a machine love, and receive love in return? EDI and Joker make it a reality. Consideration of the very nature of love is almost demanded even earlier, as you consider your feelings for members of your squad who are not human, yet with whom Shepard can relate on a deeper level.  Hours upon hours spent in this fictional reality make consideration of these issues inevitable, and you start to wonder about things like an Asari’s ability to touch a synthetic mind, and perhaps bear a child as a result of that contact. Mass Effect’s ability to inspire thought and feeling are a defining characteristic of these games, and yet when we reach the end we are told to stop thinking. The Way It All Is is laid out in starkly simplistic terms and we have no choice but to accept it, because it forms the basis for the three limited choices through which we end the game, end Shepard’s story, and end galactic civilization as we know it. At the core of The Way It All Is, though, is an assumption about organic and synthetic beings that paragons have spent a hundred hours per Shepard proving to be entirely and unequivocally false.

When people complain that the end of the games makes it feel like “it was all for nothing,” perhaps that is one of the reasons why.

Note: I played as a paragon almost exclusively, with a few exceptions. When I say “a paragon Shepard” it is because I don’t know whether or how being generally renegade might change the story.

This is a perfect summation of my big problem with the ending. Kudos for spelling it out so well.

[crimzontearz]

there is nothing wrong with that Belial...at all

Bioware will hopefully allow us the satisfaction of at least personal happiness

[Sh00rs1gn]

If I was given free reign over how to do adjust the game:

1. The Mass Relays
Keep them unless you're genuinly the worst shepard possible. If you have the minimum number of war assets when you attack.

2. Beyond the war
I was heartbroken when the game finished as it did. I wanted to see the Quarian and Geth rebuild their homeworld and see how Tali was getting on. I wanted to talk to Garrus and Liara and all the members of the crew and to see what life would be like after the war. I would've loved to talk to the council after the game and essentially say "I told you so". Words could not express the grief I felt at loosing everything.

3. Killing Harbinger
For a reaper that was so prevailent it was borderline non-existant in the final game. I would love to be able to at least have some form of dialogue with the reaper shortly before a boss fight with it. I Was just surprised that such a major character was simply left out. It would make sense to include the boss fight in the "indoctrination theory".

4. My Love Interest/tali
One of the strongest points for me. I was desperate to see Tali and her new home. I would be delighted to converse with her and to finally have a place with a character that my shepard cared quite so much about. It would be nice to finally mourn the loss of so many comrades, friends and family in a place that a character could finally call "home". The same could be applied to any other character that was a love interest. Depending on the choices you make with regards to the geth and quarian alliance you could just as easily make it so that she could/couldn't show her face in-game at her own home. Simply making the photo as a "teaser".

5. The Citidel
Given that it was captured by the reapers almost at the very end it would be nice to go to the citidel post-game to see the carnage and to see if anyone survived. Bailey is one tough nut to crack and it would be really interesting to see if he and some cohorts of his survive (it could just as easily be tied into a decision earlier in the game as to whether you encourage people to join the volunteer militia on the citadel, medical supplies etc.)

That's about all I can think of for now!
Thank you for taking the time to listen to the fans, it is thoroughly appreciated and I hope that something can come of this. I'll be willing to pay for this but please make it a proper job and not something alike "zaheed"s pack in ME2. Huge credit to the creators of this fantastic franchise.

[crwatkins]

My list is pretty simple:

-Clarify what happen at the end. Why did my squad apparently abandon me when we made our charge to the beam? How did they get back to the Normandy? Why was the Normandy traveling through a relay? The fact that people can so easily speculate that a large portion of the ending is more or less not real perfectly illustrates that there are some basic issues with the way the story is told.

-A friend of mine recently told me his problem with the ending. He said that Shepard was just kind of an action figure that he could use to say things and interact with people. The people he interacted with are what he cares about most. The relationship with his companions and NPCs. That being said, we need some closure. A nice little epilogue that explains what happens to those left alive at the end of the game would be great. I believe I read somewhere that if more Mass Effect games were to be made, it would most likely take place during or before Mass Effect 3. We need to know what happens with Quarians and the Geth. We need to know what happened to our Love Interest. What happened to the universe after the gates exploded? How much of the armada survived the final battle?

-Ideally, I would love to see the whole starchild thing be changed. It felt like the ending was lifted from the Matrix franchise. It wasn't really satisfying to go to all the trouble to get a silly ending that seemed to come out of left field like that. I don't even have a problem with Shepard dying, even though the hero dying at the end is now almost as cliche as an idealistic "happy ending."

-Lastly, this one is kind of easy and in my opinion is most important, have a frank and open discussion with us about the ending. Tell us why you thought this was a good ending. Answer our questions about story elements that seemed to have been omitted. Just talk to us. I don't like the ending, but for me that fact is compounded by not hearing the logic behind it. Just talk to us. No corporate BS or PR maneuvering. Just give it to us straight. Most of us are grownups here.

[Boceephus]

Thank you for posting a thread that gives us an opportunity to discuss some positive critique options of the (mostly) terrific game Bioware's given us.

I am posting in good faith that this will be recognized by the good folks at Bioware, however I will be posting in point form as I'm not sure if this will just be one of many "tell us what you think" threads to placate the Retakers and I don't want to burn myself out talking about this.

The Good

There's lots good about the game. You don't need me for that. Silky combat, lots of guns, epic battles. Notice how I'm not saying anything about story or choices here though…?

The Bad (not including the ending)

-The Journal: It worked fine in ME2, it broke down each quest, why remove that?

-It feels rushed: I played ME1 on XBOX then switched to PS3 and I feel like all my beloved ME2 crew were put in as an afterthought. They were criminally underused and at least ONE should have been a (at least part time) squadmate. Much more inclusion of the ME2 crew would be great, especially if they were your love interest. Speaking of which...

-Lack of mature romance: This is a rated M game with exploding headshots, dying children and mass genocide. I think I can handle love scenes above a PG rating, otherwise it takes me out of the story. I thought The Witcher 2 handled this exceptionally. Not that you need nudity but underwear in the shower and fading to black after a kiss is a little weekday morning soap opera.

-Railroaded conversations: It gets a little dull when I'm just clicking on people to hear their next sentence. Or when I do open a conversation tree, I'd like it if it was more then a paragonish and a renegadish choices every time. ME1 and ME2 felt like they had much more neutral options that extended conversation.

The Bad (The Ending):

So much has been said already so like I said, point form:

-Everything Brent Knowles said: I agree completely, and it's been posted dozens of times. Let me feel like I had an impact on this world, which includes a happy conclusion if I got there and what happens to these characters I love so much after I say goodbye to them. I want much more closure, similar to what you offered with DA: O.

-Plotholes: Don't just dump Joker and crew on a random planet because "speculation, that's why!". It's as aggravating as it is disappointing.  An ending to an 100 hour epic is not the time for new questions.

-Speculation: You know what we were all doing before ME3 came out? Speculating how the story would end. You know what we don't want now that we have it? To KEEP SPECULATING HOW IT WILL END.

-Replay value (or lack thereof): I have 7 other playthroughs from ME2 that I have NO impetus to import and finish off. Why would I? There's no ending that I want to work towards because you took that option away from me. I don't want to saddle any of the stories I put so much emotion into with that ending. I wouldn't be saying that if I could work towards true multiple endings and some with hope and positivity.

-Ending mechanics: You NAILED it in ME2, you could have just amped it up and I would have been thrilled. The finale in ME2 still remains my favourite moment in video game history. Instead of commanding the crew, let us command the galactic races at what they'd be best out to see who survives at the end. Speaking of which, the last battle would have been an awesome time to have our LI or someone from ME2 show up to have our back. Just saying.

-My main point: Casey said Mass Effect was about sacrifice. To build on that I'd say it's also built upon hope, choice and unity otherwise the sacrifice would be pointless. If I get to the end and I haven't played well enough to earn a positive ending and I know I have to sacrifice my Shep to earn it, then that's a TRUE SACRIFICE. If I get to the end and it's always a sacrifice, it's not really a sacrifice at all is it?

That's it for now. I'd love to elaborate more if I knew you were 100% working on a new ending. I hope I didn't just waste my time with this.

You guys are amazing, I complain because I believe you to be capable of making the best games I've ever played. Thanks for everything so far, but please help us out here. Have a great week.

[zenat]

First off, I just want to say that I really enjoyed ME3 up until the very end. There were some times where I felt Shepard was hijacked from me (horror over losing Thessia, flirting with Vega, and similar), the picture of Tali's face was lazy (not because a stock photo was used, but because the artist did not stop and think about quarian hands. Instead of making the fingers thicker and the space between them wider, they just chopped off two fingers and left it at that, and it looks wrong) but worst of all I think that there were a lot of missed opportunities.

I started playing the game fully expecting sacrifices. Big sacrifices. Planet big sacrifices, maybe even some whole sections of the galaxy big sacrifices. I was ready to throw Thessia under the buss to save other planets (asari live for 1000 years, can breed with other races - they can recover with what few survivors they have elsewhere after such a loss, in a way no other race can).
I was waiting to see another Virmire 'you can only save one' situation, or perhaps Shepard sacrificing him/herself to save a/several squadmate/s. Cue miraculous survival, death and end game as what forces you've gathered do their best (probably won't reach a very good ending, mind you), or perhaps allows your crew to do the rest of the work.
Hell, perhaps even a morally questionable 'save your crew member OR this colony/planet that can be really helpful and/or is full of civilians' scenario, if you want to be really evil.
I expected those kinds of sacrifices. It... didn't happen. I was frankly a bit disappointed. Not that I didn't cry like a baby when I lost Mordin, Legion and Thane, but... those were not conscious choices I made then and there. I did not tell them to sacrifice themselves.

While the EMS should be important, I don't feel that it should be the only thing that determine which ending you get. Perhaps bringing EDI along at a certain point could result in her getting viciously hacked by the reapers, forcing you to kill her and leaving you with only one team member because there's no going back? That, in turn, might screw you over in a later stage, etc.
Essentially, more of those ME2 squad choices, where a poorly made decision has genuine consequences.

Most importantly, the endings should have been more different from one another. Preferably skipping the entire 'Normandy trying to flee and crashing' thing altogether, because I have yet to hear any good explanation to that and why people who supposedly died on your run towards the beam are on the ship in the first place.

As Scitenik wrote, there should have been a 'worst' ending where you fail, completely. Repears harvest everything, everyone dies, but eventually someone in the next cycle finds Liara's VI time-capsule, and there's a holo of Shepard, warning you about the Reapers. Cue credits.
It would have been powerful and... right. It would allow us to fail, completely and utterly, while still giving hope for the next cycle.

A bad ending, though not as bad, could very well be that you manage to beat the reapers and the mass relays are destroyed etc. (destroy ending style) leaving everyone stranded on Earth. Even if the reapers hadn't burned it into a crisp, there wouldn't be enough resources for everyone, and the quarians and the turians wouldn't be able to eat the food anyway. Sure, it would look grim on Earth, but one could show some of the colonies or other homeworlds that have been saved.

Then there's the good endings to consider. Plenty of people out there want to have little blue babies with Liara/adopt krogans with Garrus/etc. Make it difficult but not impossible. You don't even have to show it happening, just... leave the door open for it.
An above mentioned 'Shepard sacrifices self to save crew member/LI' ending would have worked too.

I like the idea of being offered synthesis (though I find it immoral) and control over the reapers (which only lacked admiral Ackbar popping in for his famous line). I don't like how little overall change it means in comparison to each other, or to the destroy option.
There should have been an ending which would have allowed the mass relays to remain intact. Perhaps they shut down, but remain intact. Especially since Arrival taught us that destroying a mass relay was a really bad idea. (Speaking of which, attracting all reapers in that particular area of the galaxy to a mass relay and destroying it with suicide teams as a possible alternative here?). A shut down relay would also mean hope for an army trapped on earth, a slightly better ending than the above mentioned 'bad' one. They just need to get it working again, somehow.

The God-Child... really was the thing that tipped the ending into 'dear lord, no' territory. It felt out of place. If a sign of indoctrination? Sure. I can buy that, if we continue down that line rather than ending the game a couple of minutes later. At face value? No. I would have preferred to remain eternally in the dark as to the real reasons behind the reapers and their harvesting in comparison to this.


DA2 got a lot of grumbling from the fans because whatever you did, you didn't really change who lived, who died, made peace with the qunari, etc. This is exactly the same problem. We were promised that we would be able to change the story, and in the end... it ends the same, no matter what.
As it is, ME3 leaves us stuck with the "enjoy the cannibalism, guys" ending that we got... in every single version. For a game that's supposed to be the last in the series, with no concerns of having to arrange things for a sequel, you could have done so much more.

[trekker1701]

The whole game was great until the end. I felt like the guardian AI was just out of nowhere, and created more questions than answers. I felt like the logic of harvesting organics so synthetics will not destroy them is flawed logic, but I guess could be seen as paradoxical.

I know that many people like the indoctrination idea and I think it can work but I don't think you can say that Shepard was indoctrinated at the beginning of the game. I think maybe it could be considered an attempt by Harbinger to indoctrinate Shepard at the end or some elaborate illusion, but saying Shepard is indoctrinated right at the beginning of the game wouldn't make a lot of sense to me. I think that boy was real and I think the writers wanted Shepard to have more depth and give the player an idea that you know what you can't save every man, woman, or child, and it worked. I think it also shows the difference between humanity and machines. Shepard caring for an innocent child who has no idea of what is really going on versus the cold nature of the reapers where they do not have feelings or do not distinguish between helpless victims like we would.

I would say any modification or new content for the ending of the trilogy, definitely need more explanation of things. Definitely want to see some closure. I just felt like there was real no resolution, everything about it seem out of place from the game and the series from the AI child to the Normandy deciding to jump systems and then crash lands on a seemingly peaceful planet. I just felt like (especially when you see Shepard breathing at the end) that it was left on some kind of cliffhanger.

[Kylenne]

I felt Mass Effect 3 was, barring some issues here and there (namely how Thane's end played out and how romancing him made virtually no difference in it), utterly brilliant up until the climax. Specifically, as a hardcore Garrus fangirl, I absolutely adored the Shakarian romance and how it was written and played out, it was truly the highlight of the game for me. I have never shipped a couple in any other video game or media franchise as much as Shepard and Garrus, and every single interaction they had in ME3 was pure gold. The voice acting was stellar. They were just so believable. I really think it was the best written Bioware romance to date, I cannot praise it enough. 

I also thought the Tuchanka arc was pound for pound one of the most brilliant things Bioware has ever done, much less in Mass Effect, right down to the choice to be a Machiavellian jerkface at the end. The story of the genophage and the moral issues it raised have always been a highlight of the Mass Effect 'verse to me, and the way it was resolved was deeply satisfying, even if I bawled my eyes out watching one of my favorite characters earn redemption through death for it.


So really, the game was like 99% brilliant up until the final confrontation in the Citadel, which is what made the denouement so very disappointing. If the entire game had been trash up until then, no one would be so upset. So please bear that in mind, even when fans are going off the deep end. We wouldn't be so angry if we didn't love this universe so much and didn't believe you could do better by it and us. Most of my ideas for fixing the ending have been repeated ad nauseum in this thread, but I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus.




Two words: Star Child. This is a character introduced to us literally at the last minute, and nothing about this character makes sense if we are to take the current endgame at face value. Even the minority of people who like the current endings hate this character. He invalidates large chunks of the lore, and introduces gaping plot holes by his very existence, going back even to the first game. Namely, how on earth were the Prothean scientists from Team Ilos able to sabotage the Keepers if Star Child was there all along? That interfered with the cycles and never should have been permitted. 


Also, for as much as the writers have stated they wanted to introduce mystery/speculation, Star Child throws a wrench into all of that. I don't need to know what the Reapers' motivations are, and having this magic exposition fairy pop up at the last minute to do so--and with a laughably nonsensical rationale filled with circular logic easily disproved by Shepard's own actions in the very same game--utterly cheapens them as effective villains. Cosmic horrors don't need an explanation to be frightening, and in fact are more frightening when we don't have one. I would be perfectly content with Sovereign's original statement on Virmire, that the Reapers' motivations are beyond our comprehension.


Worst of all, Star Child makes Shepard look like an utterly defeatist patsy. Regardless of Paragon or Renegade alignment, when has Shepard ever accepted anything as holy writ, much less the words of a confessed genocidal AI? Even when things are at their bleakest, Shepard refuses to give up, and that major theme of the trilogy was utterly, painfully absent during the Star Child scene, aside from one meek objection (that the player could not choose). The first time I saw that scene, I reloaded twice looking for a Paragon interrupt I'd missed. What the hell happened to the Shepard who defied the Council when they put the Normandy on lockdown? Paragon Shepard in particular looks uncharacteristically spineless and awful here--what happened to "I won't let fear compromise who I am?"


In short, Star Child is ridiculous, he's an insult to the players' intelligence and an insult to the integrity of the narrative as a whole. The only possible way this character can be salvaged is through the Indoctrination Theory, and he's really Harbinger. If you don't go with this theory (and to be blunt, you guys would be fools not to at this point), he needs to go, along with everything after Shepard and Anderson sit down.



Other major problems with the climax:


- Every single character up to and including Shepard herself behaving inexplicably out of character, in ways that downright feel like character assassination. For the Normandy to have ended up on Gilligan's Planet the way it did, Joker would have had to have a) had supernatural knowledge that the Relays would be destroyed, somehow extracted the entire squad from the ground in London when no shuttles were available and Cortez had been shot down c) hit the Charon Relay before the explosion. The timeframe doesn't add up, and all of this is reliant on the laughable notion that the Normandy's crew would abandon both the fight and her commander, when everything we've been told and shown in three games has proven otherwise.


Joker, who had to be physically carried off the ship by Shepard and forced to evac during the Collector ship attack at the beginning of ME2, going AWOL? No. Kaidan/Ashley and Liara, who had to be specifically ordered to evac the SR-1 by Shepard herself? Not them either.


And even if all of the above went off the deep end, there is no earthly way Garrus Vakarian would abandon Commander Shepard to her fate. Romanced or not. Garrus and Tali would go down fighting by Shepard's side, period. This is like the freaking X-Men abandoning Professor X in his time of need, for crying out loud. Even beyond Star Child and all the other nonsense, this was probably the biggest knife to the gut and slap to the face of fans who have become emotionally attached to this crew and invested in their characterizations.
- The Normandy's inexplicable absence from the fight when she played major roles in the final battles of both previous games. See above. The Normandy herself has become a beloved character to the fans, even setting aside EDI. We love this ship and want to see her fight Harbinger like we had been anticipating since ME2 built Harbinger up as the true Big Bad.



- Harbinger, for that matter. A cosmic horror that was shown to have personal interest in Shepard made for a terrifying opponent, and yet it was virtually absent from the endgame.


- EMS being little more than a number on the screen with virtually no tangible effect on the endgame. You talked about not wanting to be "video gamey" as the rationale for axing the Illusive Man boss fight, yet you pin everything on this number that we see almost no evidence of in the game. Why even bother naming and categorizing War Assets if all that matters is this arbitrary number? This is another big reason why people feel like our choices don't make a difference.
- "Take Back Earth" not being delivered on. For all that the trailers and marketing built it up, we spent comparatively little time actually fighting on Earth.



Solutions/Ideas:


- The indoctrination theory. Whether or not it was intentional, the fans have given you a very easy and very brilliant out for the current mess. Run with it, and build on it. It really is the only way any of this makes sense. Have the current 5000 EMS Destroy ending represent Shepard breaking free and having the true endgame start from there. The benefit to this from a development standpoint is that you can keep all the current assets as is, only needing to build upon them through DLC.


- For the love of Arashu, give us tangible evidence of our War Assets on screen and give them an actual, tangible effect on gameplay--not just which flavor of ending we get (though it should still impact that). I do that sidequest for the salarian to get the fossils on the Citadel, I want to see Wrex and Grunt on point charging into battle on freakin dinosaurs. I get all the available asari assets, including Samara? I want to see Samara leading a squad of asari justicars against a pack of Banshees. If I did the quests for Aria, I want to see Eclipse mechs tearing it up. Even quick little cutscenes would suffice for minor forces.
- I want to command and use my army and have my success or failure hinge not only on how many sidequests I did, but also my command decisions. My entire squad is on Earth, where are they after we leave FOB? You have a brilliant template for this already with ME2's Suicide Mission. Dragon Age: Origins also executed this in the final battle through Denerim, where the army we'd gathered via the Grey Warden treaties was selectable. I want every single character I've ever recruited and fought to keep alive active in the final battle. I want to see Miranda with her fighter squadron. I want to see Jack's students putting up biotic barricades for Kirrahe's STG agents ala the Long Walk. I want armies to live or die based on how well I prepared. Most of all, I was really expecting the Suicide Mission on steroids and was really disappointed that I didn't get it.



- The Crucible itself should succeed or fail based on how well I built it (how many assets). If I did everything right, it should send out a massive EMP throughout the relay network that weakens the Reapers and leaves them vulnerable to my armada. If I didn't build my armada up enough, I should lose. If the Crucible wasn't built properly, the relays should still be destroyed, but results could range from still weakening the Reapers to just breaking apart and doing nothing. Severe consequences, and making EMS more than a number on the screen. This and the previous two points would go a long way to lengthening the Priority: Earth mission and giving it more of an epic feel.


- Most of all, when all is said or done? I want my freaking Golden Ending as an *option*. Make it painfully difficult to achieve, make it so I have to get every single asset and solve every single issue in the "perfect" way (cure the genophage, broker peace between the geth and quarians, etc), make it so I have to do very specific things even in 1 and 2, but for pity's sake make it possible. Let those who want their bittersweet ending with Shepard making a heroic sacrifice to save the galaxy, being mourned and remembered as a martyr have their cake. But let those of us who want to do so and are willing to work for it be able to see our Shepards save the galaxy from the Reapers and live to reunite with our friends and LIs have that too. No matter what happens, even if the Reapers are stopped and the relays are saved, the galaxy is in utterly dire shape, it's not going to be "rainbows and unicorns" even in the happiest of endings, so at least let us get some personal satisfaction. I want my Shepard to be able to marry Garrus and retire home to some beach house on Mindoir. She's bloody well earned it.


But, seriously, if you take nothing else away from this post: Star Child is 100% the biggest problem with the current ending. If you do nothing else, that alone needs to be addressed. Either get rid of it entirely, or explain it with the indoctrination theory. I and many other people would prefer the latter. And any Ending DLC needs to be free, obviously. You shipped an incomplete game, as players and consumers we have the right to what we paid for, which is what you promised--an epic ending to Shepard's story. I will freely cop to being willing to pay for such a DLC if you do end up charging for it, simply because I am that deeply invested in my Shepard's story. But, I will also tell you it will be the very last Bioware purchase I make.
Please, as a long time fan back to the days of KOTOR and Baldur's Gate, make this right. I know and believe you can do better than this, because you've proven it over and over again.

[sancezz21]

short answer: I love ME, I loved ME 3, the ending is crap, there are no other words for this... please give us another ending and some closure (hint) !

[Plejadenwolf]

There is much to get out of the existing end.

I want to add some thoughts on films and other influences which could have either affected the end or are a good way to affect it in future. I'm not going to sum up all major Science-fiction works like the Star Wars franchise.
I just want to give some hints on some great influences out there to make Mass Effect a piece of Science-fiction which is a piece of art, too.

In addition I want to list some general good sources for great ideas. Dare to use it, Bioware!

• Matrix & Animatrix (indoctrination)
• Shadow of the Colossus (videogame; dream shadows, "We are Dormin.")
• Immortal (ad vitam) (Science-fiction film of 2004; maybe some minor artistic ideas)
• 2001: A Space Odyssey and Clockwerk Orange from Stanley Kubrick (Nadsat slang -> Shepard's old street gang maybe uses some kind of slang. It would add many to the atmosphere being authentic.)
• The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (film & novel; fantastic reference for easter eggs)
• Starship Troopers (Science-fiction film; Depot Sigma-23 -> adding some detail on the destiny of Elena Flore's Alliance squad) 

My thoughts and suggestions are more or less covered on small details because the major ones are already spotted.

• Theo Jansen's artificial lifeforms (This guy is a f*cking brilliant genius! (www.strandbeest.com/)) -> Imagine a Reaper creature with the surreal appearance of those creatures. Breathtaking!)
• Zdzislaw Beksinski (beksinski.dmochowskigallery.net/galeria_past.php) (Ilos art influence, he was an artistic genius) -> A Zdzislaw Beksinski influenced planet for planet investigation.
• M.C. Escher influence on some of the animal creature flora, which is more or less completely ignored in the whole game (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl-up). -> In addition to the robotic dog maybe a M.C. Esher Curl-up mech creature would be fantastic! A curling up lizard mech on Normandy. Or adding some of organic Curl-ups to a desert world like Rannoch...
• Caspar David Friedrich (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_David_Friedrich): I know, I know. That has nothing to do with Science-fiction or Mass Effect at all. But imagine a peaceful dreamy natural farmworld not yet attacked by the Reapers looking like some of his awesome pictures. And then they arrive. Noone ever had thought of it. It would be a perfect place for a rapid change from dreamy peace to a brutal trench war.

I liked how you used some art reference in the overall franchise so venture something on the level design using some great concepts already done by great artists. 
For example there was Ilos (Beksinski reference) or the derelict Reaper in Mass Effect 2. That were some great levels!

What I also liked is EDI refering to physical theories like the multiple dimensions- theory mixed with philosophical thoughts. That one was great! More please!

On the way I want to mention a great german philosoph, Martin Heidegger (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger). If you understand his work (f.e. Time and Being), you see the world on a whole new perspective. Some minor reference on him would be awesome!

Thanks for listening!

Modifié par Plejadenwolf, 17 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[LethesDeep]

Before I get to the endings, I have to address two things that are pains (well the firsts a nuisance) throughout the game: the dialogue wheel and the journal. For the dialogue wheel, where is the neutral (middle) choice!? Sometimes I want to be noncommittal instead of being either a saint or a jerk. I realize that you can't go in and add new dialogue now, so this is just a suggestion for future titles using this dialogue system. As for the Journal, instructions that say "You've found such-in-such. Find someone who can use it" is NOT helpful. I can figure that much out on my own. ME1 journal really had it down-pat. Use that as a reference of how it should be done if you go back and fix it.

Now for the endings. First off, why can't I talk the Illusive Man into committing suicide? I'm full Paragon! Did I have to take the top choices in every conversation with him like the rumors say? If so, that's kinda stupid since it railroads me onto a specific path and defeats the purpose of role-playing. Second, everything after Anderson's death scene is just... agh! It completely destroys the lore with the plotholes (relays exploding go supernova, right?), violates the character of all your shipmates (there is no way they'd be running now, after so many years of staying by my side), renders all prior choices meaningless (relays explode, everyone gets trapped and starves), and provides no explanation for anything (it doesn't give closure either). You might as well have given me a text wall summarizing the plot of all three games, then let me make my choice and it wouldn't have changed a thing. If I played a good game and did everything "right", reward me for that - give me a happy ending! (oh and happy =/= "rainbows and unicorns, everything is peachy"). If I was a jerk and alienated/ killed important characters punish me - give me a bittersweet or bad ending. If I completely **** up punish me with an ending where I lose. This is actually what was promised in dev interviews before release. I bought the game based on those interviews so it's kinda false advertising IMO (If something had changed in the game, then statements should have reflected that changed in vision). There should have been radically different endings a la DA:O. Third, either show those squadmates running for the Conduit with me either dying or running back and if they die MAKE SURE THEY STAY DEAD! Fourth, where are the ME2 LI flashbacks? Oh, and you can't unlock every ending unless you play MP. That's just a kick in the quad, so the "Shepard lives" War Assets requirement should be lowered to 3500 EMS since that's the max you'll get at 100% completion and 50% galactic readiness.

Possible solutions: just run with the indoctrination theory and add a new end sequence, it's the easiest way to get out of this mess. If that doesn't work, rework the Reaper-Starchild's logic (as in DON"T explain the Reaper's bloody motives. It works better as a mystery.) and explain and make the Normandy's fate a variable based on some quest (main or side, doesn't matter) featured in the DLC used to fix this. Outcomes should be: explodes ("You Lose" ending), crashes on random planet, crashes on Earth but in South America or somewhere, doesn't crash (that's in worst to best order, BTW). Make the relays exploding a variable based on war Assets as well: 3500 EMS = no change, 2500 = damaged and erractic, 1500 = destroyed.

That's it really. Beyond the journal, the ending, and the missing dialogue choices it was superb, easily one of the best games I've ever played.

Modifié par LethesDeep, 17 mars 2012 - 09:08 .

[Atarun]

There is so very little foreshadowing for the Catalyst's existence... I would love answers about it, in any shape or form (official announcement, DLC, comic book, novel, external app, visual novel, you name it). Assuming the Catalyst isn't just an hallucination, of course. ^^

Dear Santa, I would love answers to all the following questions (and a poney :

- Is the Catalyst synthetic, organic or a mix of both?
- Was the Catalyst created before, after or at the same time as the Reapers?
- Did the Catalyst create the Reapers? If not, were they created by the same entity?
- If the Catalyst didn't create the Reapers, how did it gain control over them?
- Couldn't the Catalyst destroy all Reapers and leave other synthetics unharmed? Why not?
- Why does the Catalyst think synthetics and organics can never coexist unless they are merged?
- Why does the Catalyst take the appearance of the boy who haunts Shepard? Is it Shepard's doing or the Catalyst's doing or a mix of both? If the Catalyst is doing it, then how does it know about the boy?

Done with the wishful thinkERM, I mean, the respectful requests. On to my very own personal "theory" about the Catalyst... I'm even tempted to write a fanfic about it and I thought I could share it here:

- Organics created synthetics.
- Conflicts ensued.
- Some were resolved, but others were not and evolved into a full-blown galactic war.
- Organic life was almost annihilated.
- As a last act of desperation, the organic civilizations poured all their resources into trying to control the synthetics.
- They achieved control through the creation of the Catalyst (who might have been a Commander Shepard of his/her/its time). But their galactic civilization all but disappeared in the process.
- The Catalyst made the synthetics retreat to dark space... but 50k years or so later, civilizations were reborn and started creating synthetics again... that could not fall directly under the control of the Catalyst, because it was only meant to control the synthetics of its cycle.
- There could have been thousands of different solutions, but the Catalyst was no longer organic and was fairly limited in both power and creativity... so it adopted the only solution that seemed viable to it: use the synthetics already under its control to cull the ranks of the organics, destroy all inter-stellar civilizations, take control of all synthetics of the current cycle and harvest the most advanced organics of the current cycle to make the de facto Reapers evolve (so that they might not be outsmarted by a later cycle, but also so that all traces of previous organic lives would not be lost).
- Repeat over and over again, with the Catalyst growing weaker and less hopeful with each cycle.

There you go. I'd be honored for any of this to end up on any kind of feedback chart, document or folder.

-- Your loving fan ever since Baldur's Gate and for (at least) many years to come.

[Ace Kenshader]

Change nothing, this is your work after all, not the fandom.

[Faerlyte]

I'd also like to point out that it makes no sense at all that your two companions are alive enough to be rescued by the Normandy, but they didn't follow you onto the Citadel? Everything we know of these characters and playing the games up till now says they would've staggered in after you if they were able, or died trying. It doesn't make sense for them to abandon you, or the mission for that matter. Even if they think Shepard is dead, this is everybody's last chance to survive galactic genocide - they're not going to turn around and leave.

[Notho]

pomrink wrote...

Indoctrination theory being correct, then showing us what happens afterwards, with the extra bonus that we will never find out the reapers motivations(they  need to stay unknowable, otherwise it cheapens them).

Edit: Also, with an epilogue of sorts, no mass relay explosion (unless you fail), potential failure like promised (i.e. reapers win), and maybe possibly a golden ending with shep living, but very hard to get?

Edit: Golden ending with shep living would hopefully be with LI....

I'd be willing to shell out.


This page has a good list of our problems with the ending.
http://social.biowar...5/index/9851623

I'm mostly on board with this, except I'm not sure about paying for it. I've said before that I wouldn't, but now I'm kind of on the fence. Depends on the quality I suppose.

Endings I'd like to see:

*Really Bad: Reapers win. Shepard dies (obviously). (Maybe an epilogue about next cycle finding Liara's time capsuls).

*Bad: Reapers lose but mass relays destroyed, stranding everyone in their own systems. Shepard dies. (Shepard is also not kindly remembered by history)

*Middling: Mass relays saved, but Earth and other capitol worlds lie in ruins (centuries to rebuild everything). Shepard dies.

Good: Reapers lose, mass relays saved, decades to rebuild. Shepard dies but is considered a hero to an entire galaxy.

Really Good: Everything under the good ending except Shepard lives and rides off into the sunset with his/her love interest.

[RaenImrahl]

Grimmond wrote...
RaenImrahl - I can appreciate why Jessica is asking the Community for feedback (in my opinion, the ending or lack of ending grates). However, i have to ask why ?
Surely, Bioware (during planning for the games from the start of the story arc to the end) decided on a beginning>middle>end ?
Can you (or any Bioware staff members here on the forums) explain why they made a (seemingly) unfinished game gold and sent out to shops ?
And could they give an explanation on why the Community is doing the writers job for them ?

Just asking........

This (near total) silence  is really bugging me.......

I don't work for EA/Bioware... those of us with "Moderator" above our profile pics are gamers like you, albeit ones who have been asked to help move along conversations on the forums.  So I can't answer your questions, as I am not involved with the creation or development of these games. 

Generally, as someone who has studied media (mainly television and film), I'd say any decisions like those implemented in ME3 are a combination of artistic vision and practical, real-world considerations (finances, development deadlines, marketing, etc.).  But I have no specific knowledge.

Jessica asked for detailed feedback, so last night I created this thread as a place where people could leave it.  As to how Bioware uses this feedback, or how quickly the company responds to it, all I can guess is that, frustratingly for many, time will tell.  A safe bet is that there is no one individual who makes all the decisions involved... teamwork, especially in a corporate, business environment, takes time.  Implementation of decisions take even longer. 

Consider, for example, that it takes a good, solid month of work, typically, to release a bug-fixing patch.  ME3 has been released (in North America) for about a two weeks.  So any fundamental changes to the intricately-programmed plot of the game, using that line of thought, will take a long time.

As to Bioware's relative silence, I can appreciate it and the small steps they have made publically.  This social network, for example, does not exist in a vacuum; whenever something that comes from a Bioware employee is posted here, a dozen agents in the wider media pick it up and pick it apart.  Once a message is delivered, be it positive or negative or merely subjective, it is out of the company's control.  That's the nature of modern media.  So, I imagine we're actually witnessing a great deal of restraint on the part of ME3's creators.  There are Bioware folks, Jessica included, who are acknowledging (but not commenting on or challenging) comments on Twitter, for example, which is a much more structured media environment than even these forums.

I would disagree with your assessment on one point:  the game was not "unfinished", but rather, it was not finished well. That, again, is my personal opinion and not reflective of anything official.  As to the circumstances that lead to that decision, we'll probably never know.  No company, outside of the very rare, publicly held not-for-profit, details all of its decision-making steps to the consumer; we should not expect it to be the case here.

This thread, as I stated, is a place for people to report what they liked and did not like about the games, with an emphasis on the ending and how it was implimented.  So I don't want to derail this thread with too much speculation about what happened within the hallways of Bioware or Electronic Arts.  The bottom line is that, for now, the devs have made at least an overture towards considering gamers' feedback.

RI

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 17 mars 2012 - 08:53 .

[LdyBelial]

Boceephus wrote...

The Bad (not including the ending)

-The Journal: It worked fine in ME2, it broke down each quest, why remove that?

-It feels rushed: I played ME1 on XBOX then switched to PS3 and I feel like all my beloved ME2 crew were put in as an afterthought. They were criminally underused and at least ONE should have been a (at least part time) squadmate. Much more inclusion of the ME2 crew would be great, especially if they were your love interest. Speaking of which...

-Lack of mature romance: This is a rated M game with exploding headshots, dying children and mass genocide. I think I can handle love scenes above a PG rating, otherwise it takes me out of the story. I thought The Witcher 2 handled this exceptionally. Not that you need nudity but underwear in the shower and fading to black after a kiss is a little weekday morning soap opera.

-Railroaded conversations: It gets a little dull when I'm just clicking on people to hear their next sentence. Or when I do open a conversation tree, I'd like it if it was more then a paragonish and a renegadish choices every time. ME1 and ME2 felt like they had much more neutral options that extended conversation.

The Bad (The Ending):

So much has been said already so like I said, point form:

-Everything Brent Knowles said: I agree completely, and it's been posted dozens of times. Let me feel like I had an impact on this world, which includes a happy conclusion if I got there and what happens to these characters I love so much after I say goodbye to them. I want much more closure, similar to what you offered with DA: O.

-Plotholes: Don't just dump Joker and crew on a random planet because "speculation, that's why!". It's as aggravating as it is disappointing.  An ending to an 100 hour epic is not the time for new questions.

-Speculation: You know what we were all doing before ME3 came out? Speculating how the story would end. You know what we don't want now that we have it? To KEEP SPECULATING HOW IT WILL END.

-Replay value (or lack thereof): I have 7 other playthroughs from ME2 that I have NO impetus to import and finish off. Why would I? There's no ending that I want to work towards because you took that option away from me. I don't want to saddle any of the stories I put so much emotion into with that ending. I wouldn't be saying that if I could work towards true multiple endings and some with hope and positivity.

-Ending mechanics: You NAILED it in ME2, you could have just amped it up and I would have been thrilled. The finale in ME2 still remains my favourite moment in video game history. Instead of commanding the crew, let us command the galactic races at what they'd be best out to see who survives at the end. Speaking of which, the last battle would have been an awesome time to have our LI or someone from ME2 show up to have our back. Just saying.

-My main point: Casey said Mass Effect was about sacrifice. To build on that I'd say it's also built upon hope, choice and unity otherwise the sacrifice would be pointless. If I get to the end and I haven't played well enough to earn a positive ending and I know I have to sacrifice my Shep to earn it, then that's a TRUE SACRIFICE. If I get to the end and it's always a sacrifice, it's not really a sacrifice at all is it?

That's it for now. I'd love to elaborate more if I knew you were 100% working on a new ending. I hope I didn't just waste my time with this.

You guys are amazing, I complain because I believe you to be capable of making the best games I've ever played. Thanks for everything so far, but please help us out here. Have a great week.

Love what you said!  Totally agree with your points!!!  Thanks Boceephus!

[Samuel Beckenbach]

make indoctrination theory correct and make dlc to finish it and make it good this time