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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#2351
mupp3tz

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Catroi wrote...

therookie2552 wrote...

Dear Bioware,

I have been a major or fan for the mass effect series since it came out in 2007, everyone at Bioware has done an amazing job on all of the Mass Effect games. I personally loved 95% of the game; all of it was well done until the final moments began for the battle over the beam in London especially after harbinger shows up, after that the ending just feel apart for me. Either work off or around the indoctrination theory. Or work off this fan created flow chart http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg for the ending. I hope that everyone at Bioware can see where I and everyone else are coming from on this situation and I still am holding on to hope that you guys can fix this, because I know you can do it, and that you care.

I think I speak for every one else but this is http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg best idea for the ending that I have seen so far.

-Sincerely Mass Effect Fan


I agree with this message, can someone make a petition for this ending?


The graph attached to the original message is FANTASTIC.  That is a prime example of ending variations!  If there were a short cutscene to illustrate the results of each section (i.e. Jack/Jason & student death or survival), then the player is actually given the chance to see the RESULTS of recruitment efforts.  A tweak I would make on the suggestions is to ALWAYS allow Harbinger to make it to Earth -- just to add more urgency and danger approaching the end.

#2352
magnutz06

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Just want them to give us a complete ending asset allies n all until then

HOLD THE LINE

#2353
InsaneAzrael

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Platitudes aside. Wow, what a phenomenally excellent series. I still recall how entranced I was when I first touched down on Eden Prime in ME1. Seeing the darkness rise from Saren on Soverign when he speaks to Benezia. Hunting them across the stars. Picking up the bookish, coy and charming Liara in her woops-trap biotic bubble. First encountering the bro-to-be Garrus on the Citadel, taking out Fist with Wrex, taking out the assasins for Tali. The debaucle that almost lost Wrex on Virmire. HOLDING THE LINE. Raiding Noveria and freeing Shiala from the Thorian's bio-indoctrination. The chase that continued throughout, ending in making that decision of who will live and die (I went with Kaiden). Authentically feeling remorse at failing Saren.

Me2 brought me face to face with the new conflict of so many ways that being a Renegade was good. This was like Saren's temptation into Sociopathy. The struggle manifested more, but even with all the reasons to be badass, it was Paragon all the way. The story mounted, new faces and possibilities always held fast under a very ominous threat. There was no backing out once Shepard took down the collectors. I had no qualms replaying to ensure Kelly and every squadmate survived. I literally obsessed over getting everyone out. Ensuring that even if there was a chance, they would get out. I totally lost myself to this series. I knew it was still a game, but the story lured me in. Then as I was coming out of it, Arrival struck. There was no way I could not take that SOB (Harbinger) down, he was going to pay! That much reflected in the starting dialogue of ME3. Sh*t got real! I authentically wished I could get the option to stand by Anderson in fighting the Reapers on Earth. The story was amazing and it didnt stop getting more enthralling.

I shed manly tears when teammates died in this chapter. I lost Mordin and thought - When this is done, I will be on that beach and I will get that data friend. When I lost Thane, I knew I would leave that beach and meet him across the sea. I was anticipating death at every minute, but knew Shepard would not die until this fight was over. So as Tuchanka shone with the Cure, as Grunt staggered back to the shuttle, as Legion collapsed in the setting sun's gleam - the battle was going to close with all the might of the galaxy.

Unfortunately, ever moment was collapsed into the worst attempt at a stop-gap ending. What happened? Where was everyone? What happened to the intricately crafted story?

I don't have anything to suggest that probably has not been said here already. Thankfully though, the intelligence of this community shone through and actually gave me inspirational insight into hope. Although variation exists in their interpretations, their hopes and their ideas. There are a few outstanding adaptations that you should incorporate into the DLC (or make a proper epilogue).

1. Indoctrination theory. Not everyones cup of tea (or coffee if thats your thing). Yet, wow. Such attentiveness to possibilities. Quite frankly, if this is not your plan all along to run with this theme then YOU should give these guys and gals the permissions and resources to make this alternative happen. You leave the set up there to be adopted and implemented flawlessly. Whether it lies at the shuttles, the run or in the Citadel - the writing is done for you. A particular video that  a fan made left the best explanation I have heard. www.youtube.com/watch

2. War assets. Yes this section is awkward. Where would you possibly implement this I wonder? Well for one, animation teams will need to work on these soon to get it done. But Wrex on a kakliosaur would make my gaming experience. Please listen to the calls for big scenes. No VOs required.

3. Recontextualise/Remove the Catalyst "Star-child" character. Although the child was present in dreams, the symbolism fails to convey the significance of the character when there has been no real context given. Also, listen to the complaints of the fallacious reasoning of this character. I thought Shepard was genuinely docile simply due to his IQ dropping dramatically in confusion.

4. Explain/Recontextualise/Expand on the crash scene. There is no point whatsoever to this scene. Please do tell us why you thought this would make sense in any way whatsoever.

5. Use your assets. You have all these wonderful fans who actually got so involved and enveloped in appreciation of your franchise. Why did you attempt to insult their intelligence? Given that this is a genuine community now, with great ideas, use those ideas. The only true way to resolve the sense of broken trust or disappointment is to recognise them fully. Not simply interspersed communication or gestures. Remember that it could be something absolutely groundbreaking to make this become the ultimate decision of Mass Effect. Whereby the very community the series spawned actually crafted the ending of the game. If you open the doors to their help. Both practically and intellectually, then give them what they make as the final gift of this chapter. Then once you open the doors on any possible extensions/expansions. You will have a fresh slate to start with not only renewed trust, but a thorough appreciation for Bioware.

Yeah, at present I am just aghast at how dedicated the communities reaction has been to actually constructively giving you options here. Take the opportunity and thanks to every person here for their input.

#2354
ashjarnte

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If I may put in my 10 cents...is there at all a possibility of redoing the 'romanced' Thane scenario? Thane's death was okay if Shepard was a somewhat distant friend and the prayer was lovely. But it was sorely lacking for a Shepard that was in love with Thane. I can accept his death (not that I like it), but at least give us the ability to mourn/grieve properly for such an amazing character. His presence in ME3 just seems so out of place within the story - nobody really seems to acknowledge that he even existed - and it felt rushed as if he was meant to die a.s.a.p to get him out of the way. The fight scene between him and Kai Leng was amazing though. I won't yarn about the endings, I think enough people have ripped into it for the message to get across. Other than that I found the game amazing.

#2355
AdudenamedVince

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Not much to say here that hasn't already been said, but figured I'd throw in my two cents. I should clarify though, that I thought the first 98% of ME3 was fantastic. It's just that last 2% which is drawing all the ire. So here's some of my suggestions in no particular order....
  • More closure (more on that below)!
  • If you plan on changing the ending, which I hope you do, this may not apply. But when Shepard makes his final choice, the faces of some of the characters flash on the screen, implying that's who he's thinking of. I romanced Tali in ME2 and 3, and her face wasn't there while Liara's was. What? Don't get me wrong, I like Liara; but I you'd think my LI would be there as well.
  •  In the battle cutscenes on Earth, use the war assets more. Not saying work them all into the gameplay and whatnot, but at least in the background. It felt like me and my two squadmates were pretty much alone the whole way through. I was expecting to see Krogan riding the Kagliosaurs (or however that's spelt) and Geth colossi taking on Brutes and Banshee's and whatnot.
  • Change the ending. I'm not saying we need all the endings to be a "sunshine and bunnies" deal, but I think those who played paragon through the entire trilogy deserved something not quite as bleak. This only applies to the ending though, I'm perfectly alright with the other deaths that take place in a Paragon playthrough. Mordin, Legion, Thane... All of their death scenes were pitch-perfect, and as sad as they made me (manly tears were shed) I wouldn't have the series play out in any other way. Heck, I'll never look at or think of seashells the same way again *sniff*. A-ahem,To get back on track, I only chose the destroy option because there was no way I was choosing control, and synthesis meant there was no way Tali would ever see Shepard again. At least in the most literal sense, since the synthesis ending means a tiny bit of him is in everyone, or something. Not really sure how that works. But to add to that, I also have to destroy the Geth, the race I just freed? That's like an 11 on on my depressing-o-meter. I'm not going to prefer one of the fan made theories over the other, like the indoctrination one, and try to foist it on you as the only way to end the trilogy; but I will say that some changes will have to be made if you want to wrap this series up with the respect it deserves.
  • More cutsences. To try and wrap up a trilogy that most people have poured 100+ hours into, in that 5-10 minute cinematic? I'm sorry, I can't see how someone thought that would be a good idea. To get that all-important closure, we were all expecting something along the lines of seeing the individual characters and races days, even weeks after the battle and either being destroyed by it or recovering from it. To see Shepard and his/her LI living happily together where ever, be it Rannoch, Earth, or the Citadel. A funeral for those major characters that died, like Anderson. The Geth and/or Quarians rebuilding and living on Rannoch, the Krogan either experiencing a population boom or not, and whether or not they have a cultural renaissance or become even more violent depending on if Wrex and Eve are running the show. Liara doing Shadow-Broker things, probably related to helping Thessia. See James as an N7 and Ashley as a Specter. Joker and EDI doing something funny and touching together... Not even sure what Garrus would do assuming he survives. Movie star? Specter? Just him relaxing on the beach enjoying a well-earned vacation? Obviously these cutscenes would be very different depending on the player choices, but with a story like ME's, that's what's expected. 
Again I want to empthasize that I loved the the beginning and middle of this game. Seeing all my decisions from every single game in the series come together was a thing to behold. And not only that, but it felt very personal. I'm sure someone out there picked more or less the same exact choices as me, but the story still felt like it was mine. When I got to that grand finale, it felt like that was taken away from me, and it hurt. Whatever you folks at Bioware decide to do, know that it's been a once-in-a-lifetime ride. One I'd like to take again, but without crashing head on into oncoming traffic at the very last second.

#2356
Arisugawa

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social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9753933

These issues should be dealt with.

A lack of understanding about the Crucible

The combined intellect of the Asari, Salarian, Turian, Quarian, Geth, Rachni, and Human thinktank created a device that they do not know what it does, nor do they understand how to activate it. Furthermore, their combined military forces are willing to commit the bulk of their forces to attach it to the Citadel in the hopes that something positive is going to happen.

This is unacceptable. The various races who built the Crucible understood enough to build it, despite how "simple and elegant" it might be in Hackett's opinion. That they would have absolutely no understanding of its potential or the science behind its mechanisms, is unforgiveable. For example, a "synthesis" mechanism would have to have some ability to affect biochemistry, and the Crucible team should have recognized this. In recognizing this, they would have had some idea of what the Crucible was capable of, in which case it should have sufficiently terrified them into warning Hackett against using it.

If we're to accept that they had no idea what the Crucible was going to do or even how to activate it, and everyone decided to commit to the counterattack at Earth regardless, that reduces the Crucible team into little more than children crafting a premade "do-it-yourself" kit and the military into a complete collection of incompetents who otherwise should have saved their forces until such time as they knew what their doomsday weapon was supposed to do and how to activate it.

The Manhattan Project reference Hackett gives earlier is a poor comparison, as the scientists who developed the atom bomb understood how it was going to work and how to activate it. The concern about detonating the hydrogen in the atmosphere wasn't about what the bomb could do, but about consequences they could not anticipate. Furthermore, the atomic bomb was tested prior to its use in actual warfare, something the Crucible doesn't share with it. Hackett's statement is apparently meant to excuse the use of the Crucible without understanding it, and it does not.

Modifié par Arisugawa, 18 mars 2012 - 01:14 .


#2357
Keltikone

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Sorry to keep banging on about the ending, but a game series that placed such huge importance on the "supporting cast" should not finish without a resolution for them: Shep was the hero obviously, but always worked as part of a team.
Also, Joker running off with my ship annoyed me :P

#2358
Big Push

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Up until the interaction with the Starchild, the game was pitch-perfect and very moving. Mordin's arc in particular was exceptionally well done. I'm not going to try to generalize my critique by claiming that everyone feels the same way I do, but I will try to explain the reasoning behind my opinions as best I can.

To me, Mass Effect was a character-driven, not plot-driven, series. Because of this, I feel that the ending answers questions that I don't care about while leaving the things I do care about unresolved.
I had a lot of fun speculating as to the motives of the Reapers (who were presented in ME1 as being beyond mortal comprehension), but I ultimately wasn't invested in learning the One True Motive driving their actions; as a player, I had no emotional investment in learning that information.

I mentioned liking the Mordin arc a lot, and I think the reason it worked for me so much was that it masterfully portrayed a key plot element (the genophage and the ethical question surrounding a cure) through two well-written and likeable characters, Wrex and Mordin. Moreover, it manages to end on the kind of tragic and bittersweet note that ME3 was meant to end on but overwhealmingly succeeds where the ME3 ending failed.

Unlike Mordin, Shepard is never portrayed as a tragic hero (in the formal, literary sense), and I believe that it was a mistake to try to end ME3 as a tragedy because of this. Mordin has a fatal flaw: his ability to ruthlessly focus on statistics and the big picture lead him to develop the genophage. His character arc focuses on his redemption as he comes to realize the terrible error he has committed. Whether or not Shepard allows him to succeed, he dies trying to cure the genophage. Though this is a tragic end, it redeems him as a character and so is a satifying, bittersweet ending to his character arc.

Shepard is never portrayed as having any tragic flaw in the literary sense. In fact, throughout the series Shepard is continually overcoming impossible odds to save galactic civilization. Shepard even comes back from the dead and (in some playthroughs, though admittedly not all) successfully completings a so-called suicide mission with minimal to no losses. For Shepard to end his/her character arc by capitulating to the Reapers (unquestioningly accepting one of their "solutions" to a problem Shepard found out about moments before) is therefore completely out of character and out of place in Shepard's story up to that point.

Which brings me to my final crticism, which is that every option the starchild presents Shepard with is so horrific that it is completely out of character for Shepard to accept. The "destroy" option involves Shepard committing genocide by wiping out the fully self-aware geth and AIs. The "control" optoin has Shepard carrying out the Illusive Man's wishes and is something that, for the entire game up to that point, Shepard was talking the Illusive Man out of. The "synthesis" ending has Shepard forcing an entirely new biology onto every living thing in the universe against their will and without their consent with absolutely no discussion of the costs, benefits, or implications of such a choice.


EDIT: I actually did want to add one more comment regarding the structure of ME3 as a story...

The plot of ME3 is not properly structured as a tragedy; this isn't to say that a tragic ending would be bad per se (I think it could be very well done), but rather that the plot up until the end was not properly constructed to make a tragic ending satisfying. Mass Effect 3 begins with the invasion of Earth and so from the very beginning is set against a backdrop of unspeakable death and destruction. Shepard faces constant setbacks and is portrayed as deeply emotionally troubled by his/her own failure to bring an immediate and complete end to the loss of so much life. All this despair sets up a triumphant ending that counterbalances and even overcomes the  sadness and frustration.

Conventional stories don't pile despair on saddness on failure on nihilism. A post-modernist piece of literature might, but the video game franchise Mass Effect isn't a piece of post-modernist literature.

While I think there's a strong temptation to paint everyone who's arguing for a "happy" ending as juvenille, the fact of the matter is that they're just asking for what the plot of the game they played was telling them to expect. I for one would have been completely satisfied with a "Shepard dies, galaxy in shambles" ending if it were properly built up to. Instead I'm just left confused.

Modifié par Big Push, 18 mars 2012 - 01:34 .


#2359
space darkangel

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What's really stupid is that their ending makes any DLC pointless ! (except if it changes the end) I mean who would play a questline for nothing ? I already imagine the "Aria retakes Omega" DLC which has to happen AFTER the end she said herself that once the war is over she will take Omega back "with violence" but if she is dead on the Citadel or Trapped on Earth that would be pretty dumb ! So I don't know, with the current ending I don't see the point of making DLC that happen just before the end which leads to nowhere ! And I even see less why we should play for something that changes nothing in the end.

#2360
ShaneP

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Thoughts...

First and foremost...

Do NOT listen to the mass of drones pushing for the indoctrination theory. It stinks, it's illogical, and it's an insult to everything that the Mass Effect games built Shepard up to stand for. Please, I'm begging you not to use that idea to rewrite the ending.

And what I personally disliked about the ending?

A couple of things didn't fit...

Firstly, it seemed illogical. The catalyst is in control of the citadel and the entire network of reapers, and it lives in the citadel. Yet it was unable to detect the fact that the Protheans had altered the signal to stop the keepers responding to it? seriously :/ And given that the catalyst lived in the citadel, why would it need a reaper to open the citadel for it? Surely common sense dictates that it would have been able to open the citadel itself? And then the argument that the reapers were wiping organic life out to prevent the machines that organic life makes from wiping it out. I'm not sure that makes a great deal of sense?

And secondly, I just don't think the endings brought enough closure. No resolution to your love interest (where are my little blue children?!), no idea how the galaxy rebuilt after your choice, and no idea what became of your friends.

And the final thing I didn't like about the endings was that you spend 3 games believing that the weight of your decisions will have an impact, and quite frankly in the end they just... don't. Even if you do everything wrong, you can still save the galaxy just by playing a few hours of multiplayer to boost your EMS. And I'm sorry but who ever envisioned that particular gameplay mechanic just got it plain wrong.

And what was right about the game? Pretty much everything else, apart from the ending the rest of the game was amazing (apart from the return of the mouse sensitivity bug during planet scanning). And one final thought to add on that front was that it was unclear that having a high enough reputation on it's own isn't enough to unlock the final paragon / renegade dialogue with the illusive man, I saw a lot of confusion on that front. I've spent nearly 400 hours playing the Mass Effect games, and I never realised that you had to pass some arbitrary "persuasion check" to unlock those options.

But the main spoiler was the ending, and the lack of closure on decisions made.

Modifié par ShaneP, 18 mars 2012 - 01:13 .


#2361
Shadowlit_Rogue

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 I'll try and write up all of my thoughts on the ending here, but it must be said that I thought everything before the ending was absolutely stellar. It's because I thought the ending really had a negative effect on the rest of the (amazing) story that I'm writing this.

1. War Assets - Like others have said, most of the game revolves around maxing out the "Effective Military Strength" meter. But when all is said and done, it doesn't feel like going out of our way to max out that bar had any noticeable effect on anything outside of the emails that we get to our personal terminals. Now, I know that it would be out of the question to have all of our assets pop up in the cutscenes or in-game, since there were dozens and dozens, but I feel as though the important ones should have had representation. I noticed the Krogan, but no Quarians or Rachni or Geth (that I remember), so the ending in general felt a bit removed from the rest of the adventure in that regard.

This would have been an amazing way of approaching the ending, by the way. That way, you at least see your major choices in action during the final battle instead of assuming they're in action.

2. Harbinger - For being such an important villain in the last game, it was odd that he didn't get so much as one line, even when he's right there in front of us.

3. Closure - I'm not sure that I completely understand where BioWare was going with the ending (indoctrination, or what have you), but the fact remains that we don't get any real closure for one of the most dramatic and important parts of the entire trilogy. The fate of our squadmates is left hanging in the air, the fate of the fleet, Earth itself, the galaxy at large. There were way too many loose ends there, coupled the "secret ending" where Shepard supposedly lives if you do something very specific, which just makes things even more confusing.

I get that BioWare was trying to do something creative and memorable, but I just don't know what that something was. After the Illusive Man is taken down, things stop making any real sense. And if the whole point was to make it seem as though Shepard had been indoctrinated (as per the theory) then that just wasn't made clear enough. I've been playing since the first game, and I never once wondered if Shepard was indoctrinated or not.

Basically, there are just way, way, way too many loose threads for this to feel like a satisfying ending, and we were told this wouldn't be the case. If our squadmates are dead, let us know they're dead. If the fleet, despite the relays being destroyed, is going to be fine, let us know. I always envisioned the ending of the trilogy to be this moment where everything comes to a solid conclusion, even if it was always going to be a dark one. But we don't even get the satisfaction of knowing if everyone died. We know that the relays are destroyed and the Normandy, for some reason, fled the battle. That's really all we get, despite our choices.

4. Joker Running Away/Planet Eden - I really didn't understand this. Even taking the "indoctrination theory" into account, I'm not sure why the Normandy is fleeing from the battle back on Earth. It's just so out of nowhere that it makes that whole ending cutscene feel completely random. And seeing our squadmates pour out of the crashed ship on that edenic world - squadmates who had just been on Earth a short time ago - was just plain confusing no matter how I tried to twist it in my mind.

5. Meeting the Catalyst - It was odd coming to grips with the entire backstory/motivation of the Reapers - which had been drawn out and left obscure across three games - within the span of only a few minutes. It made some sense, but it failed to answer many of the questions left open by the rest of the plot. So the Reapers are attempting to prevent a singularity event by essentially enacting a singularity event? The main theme throughout the game seemed to be unification. Two ways this is driven home was through Legion/Rannoch's story and EDI's. We're asked to ignore those plotpoints almost entirely in favor of getting us to the vague ABC ending quicker and without conflict.

The whole meeting had the feeling of being shoehorned in. We're asked to suspend our disbelief and forget too much to make the ending work. As a side note, it's tough to take the singularity prevention idea seriously when Battlestar Galactica, the only other sci-fi epic released in recent years, dealt with this exact topic in the exact same way.

6. Indoctrination - A lot of people seem to support this, and there also seems to be a lot of evidence to support this. If this was really supposed to be the case, this needs to be much more evident throughout the game. The nightmares seem like nightmares, the confrontation with the Illusive Man doesn't seem out of place, the Catalyst could have read Shepard's mind to take the form of the boy he couldn't save. It wasn't made as prevalent as it should have been, or as obvious. Not even obvious enough to briefly consider. I didn't even start to think about it until someone had gone over the series and the ending with a magnifying glass and a fine-toothed comb and made a video about it. There's being open to interpretation (Battlestar Galactica) and then there's writing something too vague.

#2362
DOYOURLABS

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I really just want emotional closure with the LI. I would like it to be Shepard settling down with them and watching the galaxy rebuild. But it doesn't have to be that, as long as their is emotional closure.

#2363
Arisugawa

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ShaneP wrote...


Firstly, it seemed illogical. The catalyst is in control of the citadel and the entire network of reapers, and it lives in the citadel. Yet it was unable to detect the fact that the Protheans had altered the signal to stop the keepers responding to it? seriously :/ And given that the catalyst lived in the citadel, why would it need a reaper to open the citadel for it? Surely common sense dictates that it would have been able to open the citadel itself?


Very good point.

#2364
lordmorbus

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I hate that we have to work so hard to hear dialog

Having to walk back and forth and back and forth just to hear the complete story of random NPCs and or crew banter dialog is annoying.

Fix....Should be like the me2 bachelor party click to "click to listen"

Running around the normandy like a chicken with its head cut off only just to get a few lines of unanimated dialog or getting none at all errrrrr

Fix... security camera/intercom combo in your cabin. Hell your crew uses intercom to talk to each other but you can't??????
You could watch crew banter back and forth on cam or use it to talk to crew directly. Samantha traynor should tell you when there is major dialog by "ash wants to talk to you"

Tali Face
FIX In game 3D I want to look in to her eyes and see her speak!!!!


Things cost too much or not  enough money given. I always like to buy everything I can but in ME3 even with 2 play thoughts with the same shep it seems I can't.

More ways to gain war assets IN SINGLE PLAYER that don't involve boring planet scanning and boring fetch guests.

Tinfoil mini skirt and thigh high boots gift for ashley at the hospital lol

"skin" For EDI 

 

Modifié par lordmorbus, 18 mars 2012 - 01:20 .


#2365
RohanDaKitty

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I'm not sure if this thread is legitimate, or a way of placating us by giving us the impression we're being listened too.

Either way, I want Bioware to stop cashing-in on the good-will I have for them and their games.

The idea of paying for future content so that I might see an ending to the game that makes sense, crushes me.

I don't see why players should pay for content that fixes Bioware's massive mistake in the ending to the Mass Effect franshise.

As to what is bad about the endings? That's blatantly obvious, but this article: 
http://www.gamefront...-fans-are-right Articulates my disapointment better than I ever could.


I find the prospect of investing in a new Bioware game or Bioware IP to be unconscionable at this point. I don't require an ending to be perfect, but to know that it's possibility to enjoy something over 3 games, for 5+ years and spend over $300 and have it end in a manner tonally and philosophically different from everything before it...

I just cannot comprehend how this all came about. I believe Bioware are talented people. 99.8% of the Mass Effect franchise is evidence of that... But then who dropped the ball right at the end?

I can only think it's raging incompetence or sinister alternative monetisation motives.

#2366
clutzo the hopless

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Thank you for creating a forum with a concerted and constructive purpose to keep some of us from simply vaulting into another rage-rant. 

I'm trying to expand on what has already been stated:  we're not looking for "Super-Happy-Fun-Ending," we just want to hear the Mass Effect story.  Whether or not it's pretty or cheerful is irrelevant.  Many of us feel we just couldn't see the whole picture you were trying to paint.

While I whole-heartedly agree with a great many points already laid out in this thread, I also respect the right of artistic license.  If this was indeed how the creators of this incredible series had always planned to conclude it, then more power to the them.  It is not my place to demand that the ending be altered to meet my specific preferences.  What I will say, however, is that the current ending seems to be a far-cry from what we know the creative team is capable of; in that it appears to be wrought with timeline errors, character inconsistencies, "just go with it" logic, and huge unknowns.
Mass Effect 1 and 2, and the majority of 3 stand out among any narratives, in any media, as being thoughtfully developed, well-rounded, richly researched, and carefully executed.  They remained true to the marvelously detailed cannon laid out since the very beginning (with very rare and forgivable discrepencies).  The shear volume of the Codex entries included with every game testifies to the effort that goes into the Mass Effect Universe.  All those wonderful bits of info seemed to be leading to a singular, inescapable conflict; a culmination that would bring all the colorful tiles together in a vast, beautiful, terrifying mosaic (I hadn't planned on this post sounding so desperate Image IPB).   And it really looked like it was delivering.  I understand the choice to make the last few minutes of the game surreal, frightening, and more than a little confusing.  Personally, I rather liked the idea of getting taken out of my comfort zone and playing a character who's had the crap kicked out of him and just keeps limping along until the very end.  I liked how the stakes felt grand, and was positive that I would still get to see all the twists and turns in the story manifest themselves in some form or another once Shepard boarded the elevator within the Citadel.  Then, not so much.  It all became a little too tunnel-visioned, the scope too narrow, and it lost that "epic" feeling that the rest of the franchise excelled at.
If Bioware wants to finish this story with 3 equally grim endings that demonstrate the fact that some problems cannot be solved, no matter how much effort or cooperation goes into it, then OK (cruel, but OK).  And if those endings were simply designed to invoke the "mystery and speculation" mentioned in various public statements; well, mission accomplished.
The problem is, many of us assumed the "mystery and speculation" would be presented in the form of the question, "What happens next?" not "WTF just happened?"

To resolve the Reaper threat through such drastic means is the Bioware's and/or EA's call (not how I would have ended Mass Effect, but I would not have been able to create the universe in the first place, so who am I to judge).  But I at least hoped to learn why.  Flesh it out.  

I am certain that the vivid imaginations behind the rest of the narrative are itching for the opportunity to support their conclusion.  If the endings are to be taken at face value, i.e. no "indoctrination theory", then explain why Harbinger/Starchild has never exercised control over the Citadel, before.  Since we're delving into Reaper purpose, explain where the Reapers/Catalyst came from.  Explain why Harbinger/Starchild thinks synthetics will destroy all organic life.  Explain why Harbinger/Starchild cares.  Explain why the crew fled the fight and entered the Mass Relay.  Explain how the Crucible can change every organism in the galaxy into friendly Husks via the "synthesis" beam.  Explain how disrupting the power conduit "destroys" all self-aware synthetic programming.  Explain how Shepard's consciousness is supposed to be disseminated into the Reaper network and give him "control."  Why do the relays explode?  How are any species supposed to survive the energy released by an exploding relay?  Will remaining inactive relays also explode?  How many non-spacefaring species would also be wiped out by an exploding relay? Would it be better for primitive species if Shepard just let the Reapers do their thing?

I realize that reassembling the voicecast for an over-arching epilogue may be cost-prohibitive, as well as visuals-only cinematics. But if this is the intended conclusion, I could be at least placated with a text screen describing the logic behind the final three choices.

Bioware can end it how they want.  But in a story where detail, reasoning, and continuity seemed so important to the storytellers, it seems very out of character to present a plot twist that says, "Flashy Lights!  The End!"

I admit, a part of me wants different endings, altogether.  Endings that show how every story element  falls into place and contributes to a massive finale.  A finale filled with sacrifice and heartache and despair, but can still be counted as a victory.  Still, it's Bioware's baby, and they have the authority end it with the lose-lose-lose finale where Shepard leaps into the void with an ear-splitting "Meh, alright."  I respect the decision, as long as they can clarify and rationalize that decision.

In truth, any out-right changes to the story from here out will no longer carry the weight they otherwise could have.  Whether or not there is some secret alternate ending waiting to be downloaded, it will, in my mind, always be tainted by the possibility that it's NOT what the writers had originally intended.  That it's nothing more than damage control meant to appease future customers and keep them from giving up on the company, entirely.  I would rather know the the original plan, than be pandered to.  To accept an alternate ending simply because people asked for one, makes the Mass Effect universe seem less genuine or "legitimate," if that makes any sense at all.


As disappointed as I was with the Grand Opus abruptly ending with a kazoo solo, my greatest fear is that this was not the true ending; that this was an $80 bait-and-switch where fans will be asked to pay additional fees to see what the writers truly intended.  If this is the case, I'm less worried about the impact to the fan base (myself included) than I am to the creative team being held hostage by such a scheme. 

But as it stands, now, it kinda feels like someone took the Lord of the Rings trilogy and ended it with 10 minutes of a Transformers movie.....

Modifié par clutzo the hopless, 18 mars 2012 - 01:22 .


#2367
SimonM72

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Emeraldfern wrote...

Does the option to save Jack at Grissom Academy negate the effect of her gruesome transformation and manipulation at the hands of Cerberus?


I've got to admit, that is one scene that needs it own FMV wind-up and devastating emotional reveal.
Hopefully this can be fixed in-time because its another potential scene and cause 'n' effect to not saving Grissom Academy that would have emotional impact along the lines of Tali's suicide.
Take the name label off her character and when Shepard investigates the identity of the mystery assassin that almost kills him he finds its Jack, because of her unique biotic nature she is able to fight the indocrination just long enough to ask why Shepard didn't save them and either (paragon) forgive him or (renegade) tell him to go f**k himself/herself (as only Jack can) before dying in Shepard's arms.

Image IPB / Image IPB

Modifié par SimonM72, 18 mars 2012 - 01:22 .


#2368
Jimmie_Rox

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The Perfect ending if certain ready checks (similar to Suicide Mission in ME2, see here for example) from all 3 games are made and a minimum 90% Paragon/Renegad points in all 3 games aquired.

After Anderson and Shepard are sitting looking at Earth the Crucible fires opening the Citadel's arms and transmitting a virus tailored to Reaper code that kills them, shutting them down and causing them to implode on themselves by creating a sudden massive jump in their mass effect core. This affects all Reaper tech within range of the virus's trnasmissions which piggybacks itself across the mass relay network in a self perpetuating cycle blanketing the galaxy with a Reaper killing transmission from now on. Insert scenes of Reapers imploding on Earth, Palaven, Thessia, etc...

Victorius cheering on the radio with yells of 'Shepard did it' and similar.

Then, right before blacking out Shepard sees the Normandy flying towards him.

Cut to Shepard and Anderson in wheelchairs or something with his crew in Vancouver/on the cleaned up Citadel getting a thank you speech and suitable rewards.

Modifié par Jimmie_Rox, 18 mars 2012 - 01:25 .


#2369
NormanRawn

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I think is is best to remove the starchild and bring back the Reapers as they were meant to be seen, how you set them up to be, Incomprehensible.

Reaper were supposed to be beyond our comprehension. This made them out to be a mysterious threat, and that their reasons for harvesting us could be speculated on even after ME3. Instead, they were wrote as puppets of an AI, no longer nations unto themselves anymore, just more controllable synthetics.

In my opinion, you can't set up a race to be beyond human comprehension, then have human writers come up with a reason that isn't comprehensible to the fans. No matter what you come up with, it will never amount to the fans speculative mind. Just like in old horror movies, the threat was often implied, which made it more thrilling.

Either everything is a lie that either Sovereign or Harbinger ever said, or the catalyst AI needs to be removed.

Sovereign: "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even
imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign."

Answer: No your here to harvest us to make way for the next cycle of life, no, I get it

Sovereign: "Reaper? A label created by the Protheans to give voice to their
destruction. In the end, what they chose to call us is irrelevant. We
simply... are.
"


Answer: Yes, you simple ARE a tool of the catalyst, made and controlled for his purposes.

This is beyond my comprehension why this would have been an accepted path for the story.

Modifié par NormanRawn, 18 mars 2012 - 01:26 .


#2370
amslilac

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95% of the game was pure genius.

The combat was more challenging (I died lots!), the Normandy, new characters (wanted to dump Garrus for Vega but alas not possible), moddable weapons, ambient npc dialogue and Garrus! Its obvious that someone listened to all us Garrus lovers! His romance scenes were beautifully done, especially considering the restrictions of such different anatomy.

The team threw their heart and souls into this, tying up all the loose ends, Thane and Mordin's deaths both made me cry and I agonised for 10 minutes on Rannoch, heart thumping over what to do.....

The Rachni Queen was suitably terrifying if a little mystfying (I thought I had already sorted that problem ...twice) and seeing all my old squad members was heartwarming...even if Jacob is still really irritating!

The gradual disintegration of the Citadel, the way the hospital got more and more chaotic as time moved on,....the way missions disappeared if not done in time all added to the sense of urgency and despair..

Finding squad members all over the ship, chatting, so one had to go and find them....

Playing MP with new guildmates from SWTOR

Joker! (Even if he turned me down!)

...and did I mention Garrus??? On all the forums I visit his target practice scene is universally loved!....plus the last conversation....sorry ...digressing...

pure awesome.

BUT

5 years
3 games
DD edition, preordered over a year ago
ALL dlc bought for all games
Guildmates from SWTOR gathered for multiplayer...

and 38 hours later....

although I fully expected Shep to die I also expected that sacrifice to resonate (both personally) in the game.

The choices provided are too similar and appear to negate any choices/decisions made prior to that point.

The Normandy crash and stranding of alien fleet at earth "appear" to be a huge plot holes

Need closure.

Suitable "death" scene ...flashback of LI face and / or burial
Races working together to rebuild

Result?

Lead in for ME4 and/or MMO - which I would buy.

...and as James would say "Simple...no?"

#2371
NormanRawn

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NormanRawn wrote...

I think is is best to remove the starchild and bring back the Reapers as they were meant to be seen, how you set them up to be, Incomprehensible.

Reaper were supposed to be beyond our comprehension. This made them out to be a mysterious threat, and that their reasons for harvesting us could be speculated on even after ME3. Instead, they were wrote as puppets of an AI, no longer nations unto themselves anymore, just more controllable synthetics.

In my opinion, you can't set up a race to be beyond human comprehension, then have human writers come up with a reason that isn't comprehensible to the fans. No matter what you come up with, it will never amount to the fans speculative mind. Just like in classic horror movies, the threat was often implied, which made it more thrilling.

Either everything is a lie that either Sovereign or Harbinger ever said, or the catalyst AI needs to be removed.

Sovereign: "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even
imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign."

Answer: No your here to harvest us to make way for the next cycle of life, no, I get it

Sovereign: "Reaper? A label created by the Protheans to give voice to their
destruction. In the end, what they chose to call us is irrelevant. We
simply... are. "


Answer: Yes, you simple ARE a tool of the catalyst, made and controlled for his purposes.

This is beyond my comprehension why this would have been an accepted path for the story.



#2372
Kyzee

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 The Indoctrination Theory is the only thing that clears up all the plot holes at the end, in my opinion. I would strongly support this being implemented, if it wasn't the truth already. But moreover, I want the *option* for a "happy" ending, with Shepard surviving with his/her LI. (I put "happy" in quotes because of all the devastation that the Reapers have already wrought by game's end, and the deaths of several beloved characters during the story.) Happy endings aren't lesser conclusions to be scoffed at, and again, it's about we players having the choice.
Furthermore, said choice is supported in the writing itself! At the end, when talking with your squad mates before the final battle, there is plenty of foreshadowing for both the possibility of dying and of surviving (as there should be, for dramatic tension). This I found to be especially true during my FemShep's conversation with Kaidan, her LI, wherein she swears to survive and demands that he do the same, and in turn, he says that he can't lose her again. This is big time foreshadowing for survival.

However
, only the possibility of dying is followed through on. This is a major narrative no-no. To use the common example, "If there's a gun on the wall, it better be used by the story's end." I would throw the lack of a survivability option onto the pile of plot holes in the finale.

If these could be addressed, I would be more than satisfied. Thank you for listening.

#2373
aapblok

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RohanDaKitty wrote...

I'm not sure if this thread is legitimate, or a way of placating us by giving us the impression we're being listened too.


That is my feeling, too. But one can hope they are being sincere here, which is why I put my .2 in. /Hold the line.

#2374
118Cashmore

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Kittenpirate wrote...

I want my blue babies.

That is all.


This statement times 100

#2375
wagsnout

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