7052 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Hello]

Recurring words that I'm reading in most people's feedback seem to be:

Hope, Sensical, Love Interest, Indoctrination theory, Choices, Plotholes -- all relating to the ending

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 18 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[Virmire Vermin]

Man, sounds like some of you want BioWare to remake the whole game, fixing all the little things that prevented the game from being perfect. The number 1 priority should be the endings. And Jessica, you asked about the "why", for possible changes.

What BioWare fan doesn't love the Knights of the Old Republic endings? There were only two, but they both had closure. I think you were trying to do too much with all the little variations that occur in the lead up to the ending, forcing you to give us almost the same cut scene with a different Crucible energy colour.

The Reapers should stay mysterious, their intentions should be beyond our comprehension. The endings we got should be in congruence with the "indoctrination theory". Now, to give us endings with real closure, don't try to overdo it.

Keep it simple: Either the Reapers fully indoctrinate you or they don't. If they do, we get a (Shepard red = Revan dark side, Sith/Reapers win) ending. If they don't, we get a (Shepard blue = Revan light side, Jedi/Organics win) ending. It wasn't the lack of a happy ending people were upset it, it was the lack of closure and the plot holes people were disappointed with.

One ending is evil, unhappy and non-canonical, but no one complained about that option in Knights of the Old Republic because it made sense and provided closure. An evil Shepard ending would also make sense if he/she didn't break out of Reaper indoctrination.

Tie that success or failure in resisting indoctrination to the choices you make in the dream ending. Destroy = resist; Control/Synthesis = failure. Then go from there. Keep it simple, but dramatic. This is a space-opera, not a philosophy class.

You can try different things in your next trilogy. The old formula of 1 good ending, 1 bad ending (with minor tweaks based on LI) has been done to death, but the Mass Effect franchise is a new setting of its own, so it wouldn't be beating a dead horse to do this in such a new franchise.

P.S. Keep the Mass Relays and advanced races intact for future sequels.

Modifié par Virmire Vermin, 18 mars 2012 - 02:00 .

[jhoe06]

 This is a comment on Reddit with 175 upvotes at the moment. These endings are everything I wanted. I hope someone from Bioware takes their time to read it:

www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/qscwt/mass_effect_3_confusion_choice_and_catharsis_why/c403fb7

[Hudathan]

For the folks at Bioware, the one thing I personally wish you guys NEVER do is tell us the ultimate consequences of decisions such as curing/sabotaging the Genophage. To me, the spirit of Mass Effect has always been to make a human decision regarding issues of galactic proportions without the convenience of foresight. Shepard must alter the future of entire races based on his/her personal knowledge and experiences regarding the matter, and then making a decision that will hopefully give the galaxy a better tomorrow. The fact that I cured the Genophage while my friend sabotaged it for the exactly same ultimate goal is what makes this game so interesting, and forcing the writers to come up with a 'true' outcome would simply destroy the tone of the entire dilemma.

Give us more content, show us the meaning behind the cliffhanger ending, but do not place objective values on decisions that are powerful precisely because their consequences are difficult to fathom.

[crimzontearz]

Hudathan wrote...For the folks at Bioware, the one thing I personally wish you guys NEVER do is tell us the ultimate consequences of decisions such as curing/sabotaging the Genophage. To me, the spirit of Mass Effect has always been to make a human decision regarding issues of galactic proportions without the convenience of foresight. Shepard must alter the future of entire races based on his/her personal knowledge and experiences regarding the matter, and then making a decision that will hopefully give the galaxy a better tomorrow. The fact that I cured the Genophage while my friend sabotaged it for the exactly same ultimate goal is what makes this game so interesting, and forcing the writers to come up with a 'true' outcome would simply destroy the tone of the entire dilemma.Give us more content, show us the meaning behind the cliffhanger ending, but do not place objective values on decisions that are powerful precisely because their consequences are difficult to fathom.

welcome to the 2%

No outcome means no accountability

[Kenta Shuuichi]

afflictionwisp wrote...

SaintlPatrick wrote...
http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

Quoting
this.  That flowchart has some problems, but this is the KIND of thing I
think the audience was expecting, especially after how great ME2's
suicide mission was.  We wanted the suicide mission, but bigger.  After
all, what can you call collecting all the galaxy's military force for a
final showdown with the Reapers, if not a suicide mission?

This is an awesome flowchart, I support what it says. It may have some mistakes (I dont see them though, if someone can please point them to me I would be grateful) but in general I find it very accurate and reflective of what we as players would have liked to see. I hope some expansion or DLC would fix the ending.

[Arisugawa]

ShaneP wrote...

Arisugawa wrote...

Is there a reason that Shepard is wearing armor while charging to the beam, but wakes up in duty clothes?

It's still his armour, it just looks different because the beam almost completely fried it.

I mean when you wake up from the beam charge, not wake up at the end. I'm pretty sure Shepard is not wearing armor at any point after the beam charge.

[LadyoftheLake]

jeweledleah wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

FFS enough with suggesting mandatory Shepard death...give options

this.

I know some of you really love heroic sacrifice and downer tragic endings and you should have an option to have what you want.  but so do the people who like heroic victories and reuniting with their LI/friends.

options, people.  options are lovely.

I want a choice for a ending that is at least relatively happy.

[DCoacci]

DCoacci wrote...

SaintlPatrick wrote...

http://i.imgur.com/JhtqY.jpg

You know what? This ain't bad.

Just wanted to clarify real quick: Even though I think this flow chart is pretty solid, I still like the ending as is. If anything, a combination of both would've been ideal. Perhaps the first half of the flow chart (before "Final Confrontation"), somehow combined with the already established, high-concept ending.

[Legend78731]

There should be no ONE ending. That's one of the problems we have now. Have a variety, depending on what kind of choices you've made. You've done it before, see the DA:O ending. That ending had lots of options, all with unique epilogues and denouement. You could sacrifice yourself heroically, you could have the bittersweet victory, you could have the heroic victory against all odds, you could be reunited with your LI, your LI could die, there were lots of options. Hell, the DA:O ending had different end credit music depending on the ending you got.

No one ending is going to satisfy the majority, because everyone has played the game differently, with different mindsets and different tastes in stories. The only solution is multiple endings. Which, I believe, is what the developers have been promising as the ME3 ending for a long time.

Personally, I just want an uplifting end, with sacrifice along the way, where I'm reunited with my LI (even if the LI is from ME2 - you guys really lost me when you stuffed Liara's image in that final flashback instead of Miranda's, I was stunned and saddened, honestly it was one of the things that ticked me off the most).

Modifié par Legend78731, 18 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[DarthSyphilis59]

I'm sure that this has been posted, but I'm not going through thousands of posts to check. Here's info that really does a good blueprint for indoctrination theory please use it, and give us our showdown with harbinger!!!

[Sil]

After a very long week spent waiting for answers to the vocal majority's complaints, it is good to see that we are finally beginning to see a small glimpse of progress on the matter in the form of a Suggestions thread, and although a major part of me thinks this is a PR stunt I will take it as if you truly wish to make use of our suggestions in order to improve Mass Effect 3 as a whole. Because you have finally made this thread, I am going to lend my weight to it in the vague hope that you will implement some of my ideas or at least consider them, to do this I will put them into carefully titled topics for Bioware to easily read through. The first shall be the most controversial, but after that I will cover a range of topics from Bugs to Single Player and Multi-Player all of which are problems with the games -or- are missed opportunities that could be rectified.


The Ending

As pretty much every post in this thread (and for that matter, most of the posts on the forums since release) have said, the ending to Mass Effect 3 is entirely unsatisfactory, disappointing and feels inherently unfinished at times as if I was playing an early Beta model. The ending did not fit to the description of the ending in Press Releases prior to the release of the game, nor to the storyline itself and the best way for you to rectify the situation would be to make full use of the Indoctrination Theory which has gained substantial Fan Support far more than your official endings have done. I do not want to dwell too long on what you could do as so many others have posted their great suggestions, instead I will write a quick list of what should appear in the finale:

• If Bioware decide to expand the End to incorporate the Harbinger trying to Indoctrinate Shepard then they should make a decision to either release it as a substantial Expansion (5-10 hours, that incorporates new battles prior to Indoctrination and has the small Camp in London as a Quest Hub, as well as a battle to reclaim the Citadel) or as a DLC which moves on from when the Indoctrination has been overcome/embraced (taking the form of a Suicide Style Mission only)
• If the above is done, then if you choose the Destroy option then have the child turning into a Hologram of the Harbinger just as Shepard starts firing at the Structure with purpose. This will highlight the Indoctrination more, rather than just having the Kid disappearing.
• If End DLC/Expansion happens then please cut away the shot of Joker flying away from the battle and also cut the crash landing on the Tropical Planet. Also, have it so that if you pick options other than Destroy you become Indoctrinated by the Reapers and turn on your allies for a last stand style mission (like on Arrival when you are constantly attacked until you are defeated when learning of how the Alliance Scientists have become indoctrinated). These would then have an ending showing Reaper victory, and would at least make it feel like the decision between the three options has some consequence. The Destroy option would obviously continue onwards and show the real ending to the war.
• We were told that the Rachni were going to be very important to the battle against the Reapers, and that our decision to either Kill or Save them would have huge consequences. This promise was left sadly unfulfilled, at the very least could we please witness Rachni Spacecraft or some Rachni soldiers during the finale?
• Allow us to see the War Assets we collected fighting in the battle for Earth, we currently see some such as the Quarians but very little on the other Species and Factions fighting alongside us.
• Allow us to see the fate of our old Squad mates in the final battles.

This list does not cover much of what has already been said, or what could be added, but it gives a small indication of the ways that Bioware could run with a possible End DLC/Expansion. Although the End DLC/Expansion is the most important, there are many many more missed opportunities out there for Bioware to make use of pre-Earth and I shall now write on those. I shall start with Bugs, and move on through various other topics from there:


Bugs

Though a lot of the levels were well polished, there are instances where bugs crept in and scurried about the place, there is no need for vast levels of detail for these bugs so I will mention the ones I got and move swiftly onto more interesting topics:

Lip Sync was off for the beginning of the game, at least until the Mars section and I believe afterwards too. Eventually it matched the vocalisations, but the early Lip Syncing needs to be fixed in a patch.
When Shepard was talking to people using the Comm Terminal by the War Assets area of the Normandy, if he turned his head away for even a moment whilst talking it would be stuck facing the wrong way. Part of me wondered if when he was doing that, he was watching a Fornax video on a monitor nearby, but I eventually realised it was a bug. Please patch fix this.


Single Player Campaign

I will admit that Pre-Earth I thoroughly enjoyed the game and was pleasantly surprised by a number of additions to the game such as seeing Squad Mates moving around the ship and having conversations with one another. It added a lot to the experience, and gave a few giggles along the way, which is always a good thing. However, that does not mean that my eyes blanked out a lot of potential that can still be made use of by Bioware in order to make the game feel more... complete. For this section, I will split it into it's own topics to make for easier viewing.


Side Missions

Back during Mass Effect 1 we had numerous missions that could be done by travelling to planets and landing on them, these generally only seemed to have minimal story to them and seemed to serve to add length to the game and a small amount of lore. Mass Effect 2 followed this premise but instead severely cut the number of Side Missions and instead made them somewhat more interesting and included a wee bit more story to them. However for the most part, Mass Effect 3 turns Side Missions into an exercise in flying around the Galaxy and scanning systems for Anomalies, which is fine to an extent but it had a number of missions that could easily have become actual playable Side Missions ala Mass Effect 2. Not all of these possible Side Missions are actual missions, for example some come from the E-mails you receive during Mass Effect 3, and all would be “easily” corrected using DLC. Here is the list:


Dekuuna

When on the Citadel we gather quests from two Elcor Inhabitants of the space station, these quests are “Elcor Extraction” and “Code of the Ancients”, which currently involve going to Dekuuna in the Silean Nebula and merely scanning. These two quests are probably amongst the greatest of missed opportunities (in my opinion, at least) as I and others are fans of the Elcor and I firmly believe they deserved their moment in the spotlight and this was the perfect chance to show it.

At the moment we know very little about the ecology of the Elcor homeworld, let alone the architecture, and many of us dearly wished to bare witness to the Elcor Warriors with their VI-Assisted Heavy Weapons fighting Reaper Husks and Indoctrinated Elcor. In my opinion this would only need to be a short mission that could be entirely centred around the location that houses the Code of the Ancients, and would essentially be a Horde-style map where we would have to survive a certain number of Waves of Husks (of various kinds, and possibly even having Elcor Husks) and Indoctrinated Elcor. This battle would have us protecting the civilians as they evacuate on numerous Shuttles from the Normandy and also ships of Elcor design. The Code of the Ancients would be collectable from the central building that you are protecting regardless of whether or not you gained the Mission from the Elcor outside of Purgatory, and therefore would be capable of being handed to that Elcor as soon as he speaks about the desire to reclaim it. If this was to become a Side Mission I expect a small city of the Elcor would be viewable as a backdrop, and would be under siege by pair of Reapers, both of whom have no impact on the battle beyond highlighting the reason for the evacuation.

A Mission upon Dekuuna would need to have some differences from most levels due to the fact that Dekuuna is a world with heavy gravity (which contributed to Elcor physiology and to their culture), as such I believe to simulate this, it should be harder for our characters to move and that Sprinting should be nigh impossible. We would be slow, and as such would have to be careful in our tactics in regards to defending our positions from the Waves of enemies. No doubt that the Husks would have an advantage on such a battlefield with their speed, making this level all the more difficult. Also powers that Throw or Lift an enemy would be affected by the Heavy Gravity, causing more damage than normal.

Due to this being a playable level, it is my belief that it should contribute more War Assets than we currently get from completing the Missions as they are.


Feros – Zhu's Hope

I can understand why Bioware never bothered to add a level associated with this place due entirely to the fact that Playstation 3 owners would never have played through the level set here in Mass Effect 1, and as such would have no reason to want to go there, but I do believe that this place (and Shiala for that matter) are worth exploring once again for the purposes of a Side Mission, but one with more possibilities for talking than my last suggestion.

For those who do not know, Zhu's Hope is the name of a Colony that was assaulted by Saren in the hope of acquiring a Cipher from a unique alien creature called the Thorian, which was capable of it's own version of indoctrination, and Shiala was an Asari who was under the Thrall of the Thorian. If you spared her from it's influence and allowed her to return to the Zhu's Hope Colony, she would attempt to instigate a future “romance” (or rather, hinting at a humping) with Commander Shepard, but Mass Effect 3 sadly did not expand upon the events here except for a couple of E-Mails and a War Asset called “Zhu's Hope Colonists”. The E-Mail we receive from her is:

“Dear Commander Shepard:

I don't know if you've seen the articles, but the people of Zhu's Hope are fighting again. This time it's the Reapers instead of the geth.

I'm not sure if you remember me, but you helped me back on Illium. The Thorian is dead now. I can confirm that. But the spores in our bodies remain, and on some level, we are still connected.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. As we fight back the Reapers, we feel each other, and act with one mind, ignoring pain when the need arises. I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind when I went willingly to the Thorian as it's thrall. But my connection to the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger. It drowns out the Reaper voices.

This situation is imperfect, and dangerous. Perhaps the colonists should separate, for their own safety. But with one mind, the untrained fight with the skill of veteran commandos. Our force is strong.

I have not forgotten how you helped us, how you spared me. We are leaving Feros soon, and when the time comes, we will fight with you.

Shiala”

Once we receive this E-Mail we gain the Zhu's Hope Colonists War Asset and that is pretty much the end of their influence in the Mass Effect 3 storyline. I feel this is wrong, and as such a Side Mission should take place there, one that is gained by receiving an E-Mail from Shiala (or Lizbeth should Shiala be executed by Commander Shepard), I have rewritten the E-Mail to turn it into a Side Mission instead of an information update:

“Dear Commander Shepard:

I don't know if you've seen the articles, but the people of Zhu's Hope are fighting again. This time it's the Reapers instead of the geth.

I'm not sure if you remember me, but you helped me back on Illium when Baria Frontiers were threatening to use harmful medical tests against the colonists to investigate the Thorian spores. The spores are still in our bodies, and on some level, we are still connected.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. We feel each other, and act with one mind, ignoring pain when the need arises. This situation is imperfect, and dangerous. Perhaps the colonists should separate, for their own safety. But with one mind, the untrained fight with the skill of veteran commandos. Our force is strong, but not strong enough.

Despite how we are fighting here on Feros, we are slowly starting to be overwhelmed and are in need of assistance. The Reapers hit our Space Port early in the invasion, and we could do with your help in evacuating the Colony. If you come to our aid, then when the time comes, we will fight with you.

Shiala”

I would expect that this level would start off with the ability to chat to a few of the colonists including both Lizbeth and Shiala. Conversation options with both would reveal how ExoGeni sent a team down to the Thorian's corpse to access whether or not it is truly dead, and to recover samples in the hope of using it for the War Effort. Perhaps once we have chatted to them for a short while and been given an update on the situation then Husks will attack the Colony and we'll have to defend it for 5-6 minutes before Shiala requests Shepard heads down into the Thorian's lair to recover the Scientists who are researching the Corpse. Their recovery would then lead to holding the line once more in Zhu's Hope for another wave, before the Colonists evacuate upon Normandy's Shuttles.

The aftermath would depend entirely upon whether or not you spared Shiala following the Thorian's demise in Mass Effect 1, or if you executed her. If you executed her then you will be visited in your cabin by Lizbeth who will personally thank you before disembarking from the Normandy and giving you access to the Zhu's Hope Colonists War Asset, as well as a new Thorian Spore Research War Asset which details how Scientists are investigating whether the Spores could be used to combat Indoctrination or to give Soldiers a new edge in battle. If you spared Shiala then she will come to your room, personally thank you and also mention her fears regarding her Indoctrination previous to the Thorian. From here, you get a chance to send her on her way -or- to spend raunchy moment with her that does not technically form a “romance” and would allow you free to continue upon the Romance path with another character. After she disembarks you would receive the same War Assets, as well as an E-mail of thanks and hinting again towards “When I'm not so busy and you aren't.. doing what you do..” like she did in Mass Effect 2.


There are many more possibilities, but these are two that I most wanted to highlight at the moment (mostly because I've forgotten the others, just too many Side Missions to think of!), instead I will move onwards with my Suggestions.


Offline Galactic Readiness

As someone who cannot afford to spend money to get the Xbox Live Gold service, I am stuck with the inability of achieving the so-called “Perfect” ending, which is something that goes entirely against the Previews which stated without a doubt that we can achieve the “Perfect” ending with Single-Player alone. Whilst I can understand your desire to push Multiplayer on us, both for the sake of earning revenue from Multiplayer DLC and keeping the game in people's mind beyond the length of the Single Player experience, it is entirely unfair on someone such as me who cannot afford the cost of being able to play it. And so I suggest a limited version of the Multiplayer experience but in an Offline and Single Player capacity.

The War Room where we can view the War Assets we have collected and our Galactic Readiness meter would be a perfect stage to have the Offline version of Multiplayer take place. If you would go to the “Galactic War Console” it would replace the Crucible with a view of the Milky Way Galaxy, much like when you are going to move the Ship. Here you would see the various Firebase's to battle upon, and also a section to design a Character for use in these levels. Once you have selected a Character and chosen a Firebase (and the Foes that you would be battling) you drop into the game alongside 3 other Bot “Players” on your side who will help you to win the Objective.

In my opinion allowing this would be a vast improvement for those incapable of playing Multiplayer, but obviously would need some discouragement to stop everyone just using it -instead- of Multiplayer. As such, my recommendation would be to have a Cooldown after completing each Firebase, this would mean that the attempts to build Galactic Readiness would take longer than Multiplayer, but would still enable Offliners to make use of an aspect of the game they currently cannot.


Characters

With there being so many characters, I will attempt to keep this section short, however I will say that there were some great improvements in the Characters in Mass Effect 3 such as being able to meet and chat with them on the Citadel and witnessing them interacting with one another. I will add in some suggestions and will attempt to keep things short.


Normandy's Crew

Although there were great improvements between Mass Effect 2 and 3 in terms of how the various characters interact with one another, there was a part which sadly disappeared in the transition between the two games, and that was the ability to hear what the various crew members are discussing. Between missions in Mass Effect 2 we would hear the unknown crew members having chats in various rooms about the ongoing Collector situation and it really nicely fleshed out the background, nameless characters and also the setting we were in. However, in Mass Effect 3, almost none of the Alliance personnel (except the two ladies guarding the War Room) speak to one another, and that was disappointing to me. I wanted to glean bits of lore from them as they spoke of how the war is progressing, learning which Colonies have fallen etc.

This information is not exactly vital, but would be aid immersion for all.


Sarah, Falere and Rila

Although minor characters in comparison to almost all others in the game, I would like to note that these characters do not look at all related to the families they belong to; Sarah does not look like she is related to Ashley Williams (sister) at all, and neither Falere or Rila look anything like Samara (mother) or Morinth (sister). Although this is a minor quibble, I would suggest that you change the facial codes for them so that they all look more like their relatives than they do now even the most different of siblings have vague similarities to one another.


Emily Wong

Despite only appearing briefly in Mass Effect 1 and 2, Emily Wong managed to acquire a significant fan following and was a well loved character in the Mass Effect universe, even so much as to have some people clamouring for a chance to Romance her (although surely as a Journalist she'd have spilt the beans on Shepard's bedroom activities ). However, a beloved character was killed off around the time of the game's launch and frankly, from what I have seen, it was handled in a brilliant way that touched many of those fans.

However, the excellent work on her coverage of the Invasion of Earth never made it into the final product, not even as an E-Mail or spoken of on the News screens you see dotted around the Citadel. It would be easy to patch in an E-Mail or News Report on her, and it would really add to the scope of the game's lore. You could go a stage further and show a video of her ending, but as awesome as that would be, it would take precious time out of adding more important features. So, my suggestion is to tell us ingame of her heroic death at the hands of the Reapers via a patch.


Diane Allers and Khalisah al-Jilani

Although many have been upset with the inclusion of Diane Allers because she is voiced by Jessica Chobot and looks like her (and also the many accusations that her inclusion was a method of purchasing a decent review score from IGN.com), I want to say that in theory the inclusion of a War Reporter onto your ship is a decent one, however I feel that this was not used to it's full potential and neither was the Romance option. Diane Allers needed more lines, and you needed more chances to chat with her, possibly even going so far as to have an interview with her following every Priority Mission. This could have led to a far more fulfilling Romance with her, or at the very least allowed us to explore the character's origin and personality, not only that but for most of the game I was convinced she was going to turn out to be a Cerberus Operative or even Assassin who would attempt to betray us at some point. Unfortunately this did not come about, and the Romance was.. not fulfilling and even the raunchy scene was handled poorly (though you probably did not have consent to show anything more than a kiss). In my opinion you guys could patch in a few more lines with Shepard, and a slightly better romance from that, or to include a possible betrayal.

On the other hand, this is a game series that is built upon choice, and in my opinion we should not have been placed in a position where we could only recruit Diane Allers (who was not fleshed out enough to be of much interest) but instead you should have given us the option of recruiting Khalisah al-Jilani onto the Normandy. Not only is she a reasonably well developed character in comparison, but she is ready to ask the hard questions regardless of Shepard's responses and she actually has a history with him. When we come across her in Mass Effect 3, we see a new side of her if you make use of Paragon options and I truly would have loved to explore her character further in the role Diane Allers occupies at the moment.

My suggestion would be to improve Diane Aller's role in the game somewhat and flesh her out more, whilst improving the romance option, but also to include the ability to choose Khalisah al-Jilani instead and allow us to pursue a friendship or romance with her if we wish. Choice is important in this game.


Commander Bailey and Spectre Jondum Bau

During Mass Effect 2 we had the unique chance to actually play as Joker (without even breaking his bones!) when the Ship was attacked by the Collector's in the final stages of the game's storyline, and this game has presented a unique opportunity to do it all over again. When we learn that The Illusive Man and the Reapers are moving on the Citadel, it is the perfect chance for a new level to be included featuring either Commander Bailey or Spectre Jondum Bau as a playable character working to protect the Citadel. The level would not need to be a long one, but it would allow you to show just how those Citadel War Assets are coming into effect as the Citadel is attacked.

Whether or not the character would survive the level is irrelevant, but the ability to actually witness the Citadel being stolen by the Reapers and a Husk invasion of the Space Station is too good an opportunity to pass up. Also, it would prolong the ending, and give us all an even greater sense of urgency about riding to the rescue of Earth -and- the Citadel.


Squad “Loyalty” Missions and Mass Effect 2 Character Handling

One of the defining points of Mass Effect 2 for me was the many Loyalty missions you could accomplish with your crew in order to keep them on side and to further potential for romantic interests and to learn more about their backgrounds. These Missions were varied and important, and in my opinion were one of the aspects of Mass Effect 2 I had expected to definitely be carried over into the sequel. Unfortunately this seemingly was not the case in Mass Effect 3 and though some claim that it would impede on the feeling that we do not have much time before the Reaper's destroy everyone, its stated in the lore that in fact, a Reaping can take Decades for a single planet, even Centuries to complete an entire Reaping. So we have more than enough time.

On top of that, I feel that the various Squad members we saw in Mass Effect 2 deserve more screen time, and as such I would severely recommend that as well as a Squad “Loyalty” Mission DLC we have a Mass Effect 2 Squad Mission Pack to either accompany it -or- to be a separate download. We invested heavily in these characters in the last game, and there is a lot of untapped potential in them. On top of this, the Romances we had in Mass Effect 2 were poorly handled when it came to the characters from Mass Effect 2 who were not full Squad members in Mass Effect 3, and so I suggest that this is improved by either focusing on these characters and giving them a new mission or two thus increasing their screen time -or- if you choose to continue the romance with them, then you can recruit them as an extra Squad member.

Also I should add that some characters were very poorly handled from Mass Effect, as were some of the choices that were possible to be made. For example if you keep Morinth alive then you do not even get to interact with her in Mass Effect 3 but instead fight her as a random named NPC Banshee. Or if you send Legion to Cerberus then you merely fight him at some point as a random named Geth. These choices should have impacted the third game more, even having brief conversations or at least regarding them as boss fights instead of just standard NPC's.

I would love to go deep into the many possible plots that each character could have for a “Loyalty” mission, but instead I will focus on a few possibilities that may whet people's appetites for this suggestion:


Morinth

One of the key choices in Mass Effect 2 was the battle between the Justicar Samara and her mass-murdering daughter Morinth, both of these characters are powerful Biotics who can join your crew, but only at the expense of the other characters death. A death that you choose to make as Commander Shepard. If you choose Samara, she gets a mission devoted to her and her daughters, but if you choose Morinth then she becomes a Banshee off-screen. I do believe this is rather unacceptable and ruins what could have been an awesome moment when we are reacquainted with her.

As such I would request that instead of this scenario we are treated to Morinth's attempts to save her sisters Falere and Rila from the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery on Lesuss but in the process of the attempt the three sisters all become Banshee's under the control of the Reapers. Instead of the bomb going off, we could have a situation where you have to fall back from the three of them until you get to the Shuttle, which would be a tense situation at the best of times. The Shuttle could be damaged by them, and instead our team would have to take down the three Banshee siblings as if it was a “mini-boss”.

Although she would obviously still be dead from all this, it would at least give us some more screen time with Morinth before her demise, and would increase re-playability by giving us a unique situation if we pick to keep her alive.


Jack

As someone who loathed Jack during Mass Effect 2, I must admit that Mass Effect 3 made me really like her, and wished that her role in the game was expanded more than it currently is. As such, at the moment if we romanced Jack or not, we can all get the same meeting with her in Purgatory that ends with Shepard bust-a-moving with her. In my opinion this should be kept for both, but those who romanced her did deserve something a little extra. If my suggestion to have Love Interests as additional Squad Members comes true, then obviously she would gain more scenes with Shepard during missions and for the raunchy scene that happens before the final battle, if not then just the chance to meet up with her somewhere else for more chats would be beneficial.

There is a part that does need fleshing out though, and that is the fact that if you do not reach the Grissom Academy quick enough then Jack will become an enemy Phantom during the attack on the Cerberus base. In my opinion this was a fine move, but it should have been foreshadowed by showing her being dragged off by Cerberus and -then- having the fight against her in the Cerberus base being a boss battle of sorts, ending with the ability to chat to her (likely with Husk-like upgrades to her appearance like many Cerberus Soldiers have) and allow her to rest (or to put her down for good with a renegade option). This could easily be patched in, or added to a compilation of Character DLC's.


Tali'Zorah vas Normandy

I will keep this one short, but if Tali'Zorah failed to survive the Suicide Mission at the end of Mass Effect 2, then she should have a full replacement in the form of either Kal'Reegar or Admiral Shala'Raan vas Tonbay. I understand that it is not the same as having Tali, but it would allow for her Squad slot to still be used by a known character and would show a definite consequence of losing one of the main characters.

Also in regards to Tali'Zorah I believe that although you made a lovely picture of her for Shepard (the woman you chose to represent her is gorgeous) I believe that either in a patch or in a DLC Character Pack, you should give her the face we see on the Stock Photo you used. Many have asked for this, and frankly you guys have the resources and talent to show her properly. She should probably not show her face often, and as such, she should only remove her mask and hood as you finally reclaim Rannoch for the Quarians -and- for the love scene once the Final Mission is instigated. In fact, that scene should probably be redone to include her face and body some more as well. If it helps you to bring this about, then it would be an interesting idea to release a new DLC appearance pack for the characters and to have her new appearance as a Hoodless and Helmetless appearance that makes use of the holographic head pieces that some characters use (for example, Garrus' eye piece, or EDI's “glasses”).


Thane Krios

I will admit that Thane had a decent run in Mass Effect 3 and truly proved what an epic Assassin he was in full health, when he managed to overcome Kai Leng whilst infected with the terminal illness Kepral's Syndrome. However many were led to presume prior to the release of Mass Effect 3 that there would be some chance to save Thane's life, and I believe that there should be -but- it should be a difficult thing to achieve.

The perfect setting for a Priority level went entirely overlooked during Mass Effect 3 and instead was solved with a small mission on the Citadel involving Kasumi Goto and that was the protection of the Hanar homeworld of Kahje from an indoctrinated Hanar Ambassador who was going to allow the Reapers onto the world. I was so disappointed that we did not get to see how the Reapers would lay siege to the Domed Cities of Kahje, or just to see how a Water World survives an encounter with them.

As such I believe that Bioware needs to include a Mission called “Priority: Kahje” that focuses on a Reaper invasion of the Hanar homeworld and the rising members of the populace who view the Reapers as the returned Enkindler's. This mission would only be accessible once you have completed the Mission involving Kasumi Goto's attempts to save the Kahje from the traitor Hanar Ambassador. If you gain this Priority Mission, you have two options:

• Go and immediately speak to Thane, he will make the request to be brought with you on the mission to Kahje in order to allow him a chance of receiving a Lung Transplant to cure his Kepral Syndrome. This in effect opens up a secondary mission on the planet (much like how Tuchunka had various Missions you could choose on it's surface) which involves getting Thane to a research centre devoted to the Kepral Syndrome cure or to a Hospital. Though I feel it would be silly to go too in depth into the actual events of the mission here, I would assume that we would have to escort the comatose body of Thane from the Hospital and back onto the Shuttle with a chance of him being killed as you attempt it. If you succeed in bringing him back to the Shuttle, he will be cured but will remain in the Medical Bay for some time. Once he recovers, he leaves the Ship stating that he will return once he has seen Kolyat once more. This would allow him to be present to fight Kei Leng on the Citadel and we would be able to see the true outcome out of combat between the two Assassins, though I expect an injury would occur and he would be in hospital and unable to rejoin your crew. If you had a Romance with him, I believe it would make sense if he appears in your Ship's Medi-lab instead of the Hospital, and before the advent of the finale he would become a fully fledged Squad Member again and would therefore have a special romance scene once you instigate the Finale.
• If you skip past Thane and the Priority Mission until after Cerberus has attempted the Coup on the Citadel, then unfortunately Thane will die from his wounds at the hands of Kei Leng (and of course, the Kepral Syndrome), but as is suggested by the conversation whilst Thane is on his death bed, Kolyat has been spending time with the Drell Priests on Kahje and instead the secondary mission on Kahje would be one where we assist Kolyat in saving the Drell Priests from their Monastery. This would be the fairest way of allowing us to aid the Drell and also to keep us all having the same number of Missions to complete, plus we would get to understand Thane's son alittle better which is no bad thing.

I should note that if you do attempt to cure Thane of his illness, it should be a very hard thing to achieve and that even if he returns to the Normandy then there should be a chance for the Transplant/Cure to fail, thus producing the end we saw in Mass Effect 3 already. Possibly the best bet even would be to only have the cure being successful if he was romanced.

At the very least if the “Cure Mission” is not implemented, then those who romanced him in Mass Effect 2 should get a deeper set of conversations and death scene with him.

There are many more possibilities for all characters for more quests and more time spent with them, however I feel it would be best to move onwards before getting bogged down in too many details.


Priority Missions

In all probability, the DLC we will be seeing most for the Single Player game will be large Priority Missions and Character Costume Packs, so for this section I shall utterly ignore the Costume Packs and focus on the new Missions (although I shall ignore the End DLC due to having already briefly discussed it). I will try to not go into too much depth regarding my ideas, but instead present the ideas I am fond of:


Priority: Omega

Omega was a hub “world” in Mass Effect 2 and a rather interesting place in my opinion, the scummy underbelly of the Galaxy where Mercenaries and all sorts of filth would hang out and strut their stuff in Afterlife. As the comics and game tells us, Aria loses Omega to a massive assault by the hands of Cerberus and creatures known as Adjutants (introduced in Mass Effect: Invasion, and were originally a foe known as Pariah's that were cut from the game) who seemingly were under their control. This DLC would start with an E-Mail from Aria requesting for Commander Shepard to meet her, before she details a plot to recover Omega by utilising the combined Mercenary force of Blue Suns, Eclipse and Blood Pack that you have brought under her control. Although I have no need to get into details, it is obvious that the mission would involve battling both Cerberus and the Adjutants (I could see them possibly turning on Cerberus, causing a 3-way battle for the Space Station).

I believe the best bet would be to have it so once we manage to reclaim Omega, it becomes a small quest hub that you can explore similar to the Citadel at the moment, having a number of small missions to undertake like the old ME1 and 2 Side Missions. I could also see this including a handful of new weapons, weapon modifications and armour styles. There are a large number of people clamouring for a bit of one-to-one time with Aria but I doubt that is truly necessary. If the DLC would open up more star-systems to explore then perhaps more missions on the Citadel could be activated as well.


Priority: Illium

“All that binds the Terminus Systems together is their desire to be free of the overburdening control of Citadel Space however the advent of the Reaper invasion has brought on a new found desire for stability between the two regions, with the effort being spearheaded by the Planet Illium, the economic capital of the Terminus Systems which is set to make a fortune from acting as figurehead for an alliance. The Reapers do not suffer such unity lightly, from the darkness of the void they come to sever the fragile stability of the region and set Illium to the torch.”

Illium is another very interesting place from Mass Effect 2 that we have not seen return in the third game, which truly is a shame as it is a place with vast potential. For this Priority Mission, I would expect 2-3 large missions set around either saving Illium or watching it fall, depending upon your success rate of the missions involved. Unlike Omega, I feel that if you reclaim Illium it should not become a true Mission Hub (although you should be able to walk around a small section like in Mass Effect 2), with the DLC focusing entirely upon making an exciting battle between the Terminus Systems and the Reapers for control of what is a very beautiful but controversial world.


The Last Collectors

“When Commander Shepard destroyed the Human-Reaper and set off a chain reaction that led to the destruction of the Collector Base beyond the Omega-4 Relay it seemed as if the Galaxy had seen the end of the Collector threat. However a singular Collector Cruiser has been recently spotted Pangaea Expanse moving towards the fabled location of the Planet Ilos, leaving a trail of raided Prothean tombs and missing colonies in its wake.”

In my opinion with the loss of their base, the Collector's are nigh extinct and are consisting of only a singular ship left and the troops that serve upon it. We know that the Collector's do not breed, but are cloned and adapted by the Reapers, and so in my mind it seems blatantly obvious that the Collector's are now lacking DNA samples to adequately survive for long or to recover their numbers. With there being thousands upon thousands of dead, decaying and skeletal remains of Protheans in the Stasis Pods on Ilos, it is the perfect location for them to gather the genetic diversity they need to allow their DNA structures for successive cloning to work. Hence I believe this Priority mission should focus upon a small set of missions involving attempts to halt their DNA recovery and to destroy them once and for all. No doubt this would involve returning to a few former Prothean worlds such as Gei Hinnom This would also give a great opportunity for us to hear some unique dialogue from Javik regarding these fallen worlds and about the Collector's themselves, plus would be the perfect opportunity for him to finish off those that destroyed the plan for the new Prothean Empire.


Priority: Kahje

Regardless of whether or not the idea for Thane I had is implemented, the planet of Kahje would be absolutely perfect to show a unique take on the Reaper invasion due Domed Cities that it's Drell inhabitants live in, the water-borne places that the Hanar dwell in, and the possibilities for unusual combat or even hover-tank combat upon the surface of the ocean. I will not go into depth regarding this, but this is one of the planets I desperately wanted to see invaded and I feel it has great potential for furthering the storyline. Also, the Prothean ruins on the underwater volcano Mount Vassala could be used to further contribute to the Crucible storyline.


Priority: Antilin Ghost Ship

“Just over half a year ago, an AI-guided “Ark” of immense size carrying the virtual conscientiousnesses of one billion individuals appeared in the Salarian controlled Antilin system requesting aid in the form of new power systems to enable the virtual world it carried to survive. However mere days after approaching the Citadel Council, the so-called Ghost Ship disappeared under a veil of secrecy with no word being released as to its whereabouts or existence. However the Starship has re-emerged once more in Citadel controlled space, yet is under threat from Quarian extremists who view all synthetic and virtual life with disdain, protect the “Ark” from this new threat and uncover the reasons for it's sudden disappearance.”

Sorry, poor description but I am rather tired, hehe. I was always intrigued by the storyline presented in the Cerberus News Network and would love to see exactly how this Ship looks and the secrets of the Virtual World contained within it. This mission could provide EDI with some interesting dialogue (with both the AI and the Virtual Aliens) as well as Tali (with the Quarian Extremists). Though I highly doubt this idea would ever see the light of day, I believe if this mission was added, then the bonus for completing it should be having the Antilin Ghost Ship aiding in the construction of the Crucible by running vast calculations far beyond the computing capabilities of the collected races currently working upon it. Also, in my opinion, it should appear in the final battle.

This scenario may work better with Cerberus or the Reapers attempting to make use of it, but to be honest, it is far more unique to have Quarian anti-AI extremists being the bad guys.


Dark Energy DLC

Mass Effect 2 set up the interesting premise that Dark Energy is beginning to have a terrible impact upon the shape of the Galaxy with it's most notable example being how the star Dholen is aging prematurely as a direct result of the influence of Dark Energy. Also the character Gianna Parasini hints that her next assignment would involve Dark Energy and how her superiors are getting nervous over its effects.

For me, this would be the perfect DLC to introduce not only a detailed mini-story into the Single Player experience (one that possibly does not involve either Cerberus or the Reapers, which would be unique and interesting) but could theoretically introduce Gianna Parasini as a new Squad Member -and- a potential Love Interest for both MaleShep and FemShep. The hints are there for romantic involvement, she has an interesting personality and seems to have the talent and ability to work well on the Normandy. Though I have no idea how such a storyline could progress, I do feel it is a perfect setting for a DLC and would finally allow us to see what Gianna has been getting up to the past few months!


Aaaaand, I cannot think of any more Single Player additions, and my fingers are tired, so I will add one small part for Multiplayer.


[size=16]Multiplayer

The only addition I can think of for Multiplayer would be to allow Local Co-Op for those of us who cannot afford to purchase Xbox Live Gold, those who do not have the internet strength for online play, or those who would love to just play through the Multiplayer levels with a mate. It could be from 2-4 Co-Op, possibly with bots replacing some of the characters to maintain the balance that the Multiplayer levels currently have.

Modifié par Sil, 18 mars 2012 - 02:08 .

[sisterpatrick]

Like pretty much everyone else, I am a huge fan of these games, and my distress at the final installment is due to the fact that I love this series and universe greatly. I'm very grateful that you've created this thread and invited our comments.

That said, here are my issues and requests to add to the pile:

ME2 characters: romanced characters are treated very badly - Thane and Jacob particularly. You should be able to carry on a relationship from ME2 if you have one. There should be the option of healing Thane, especially since there was all sorts of foreshadowing implying that this would be possible. It's dismal playing a grief-stricken Shepard and shouldn't have to happen. It ceases to be a fun game or a good story. (I've also read accounts of players dealing with real-life illness for whom Thane's fate was a terrible thing. 'I couldn't heal my husband, but at least I can help Thane.') It's particularly galling considering that Thane was touted as being created specifically to tailor to female gamers - it feels like a calculated slap in the face that a) he must die regardless and none of your crew seems to remember that he exists. Male Shepards aren't left out in the cold like that.

An ending that makes sense, that accounts for all of your decisions and strengths that you've cultivated. This chart that so many people here are linking to - http://i.imgur.com/nAtIY.jpg - is an excellent map. We should SEE all of that happen, too. Why are we recruiting all these people and then not getting to see them in action? The kiosk in the war room tells me that we've got the Salarian STG, Jack's students, krogan, quarians, Zaeed, etc, etc, and that's it. We never see any of them.

The 'Musings of a Screenwriter' thread is spot on:
http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

The only way to salvage the star child stuff is to run with the indoctrination theory. Otherwise, it's nonsensical. It invalidates everything this series has been so far - not just the plot but the manner of playing. Decisions are supposed to matter, and then suddenly they don't - just because, apparently. It looks like the writers were trying to be edgy or something but forgot that you still have to tell a good story. 'Rocks fall, everyone dies' just doesn't cut it. Neither does the claim that we should be filling in the blanks with our imaginations. Bioware is not Mr Dressup. I don't need to be schooled about using my imagination. On another site I said that if the game had ended with TIM rickrolling me, I'd be less upset, and it's literally true. That's terrible.

Give us the option to earn a 'happy ending.' Comparing it to the sad ending of a book or movie is missing the fact that it's neither. A game involves the player in a way that books and flicks don't. Many of your players deliberately model Shepard on themselves - actions and physical features both. Or we create complex different characters and the roleplaying aspect of the game is extremely important to us. We relate very personally to what's happening. The emotional investment in a game like this is great. Mass Effect is very much the Hero story - for pity's sake, let us be that. Make it difficult, but at least make it possible. A future with your LI, and the Reapers gone for good. Let us see what happens to all of our friends - whom we have spent five years getting to know and care about. There's no emotional closure for anyone here - not Shepard, not his/her friends, LI, colleagues, not even for the Reapers.

I implore you to fix this. I have been in love with this series from day one. I have until now bought any Bioware game on sight because I have known them to be invariably excellent. That trust is gone. I am not a disgruntled customer. I am a heartbroken one.

[sistersafetypin]

LdyBelial wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...

Edit:  I hate indoctrination theory.  It's not elegant and I think it's pretty terrible storytelling.  It cheapens all of your decisions.  "Did I make this decision because I was being indoctrinated, or because it was my decision."  So yup, I think it's a bad idea.

Everything after Shep collapses at the control panel is a hallucination. It's kind of crap bridge, but it's believable. If he lives or dies I think it's time for someone to rescue Shepard. Since you guys cut the scene where Garrus and Liara die after being hit by harbinger's laser, you've left some room for the two squad mates to make it up to the Citadel via the beam after him.

It's like an action movie where the protagonist is down on his back staring up, blinking and somebody reaches a hand down and pulls him up...

I don't like it either.

Neither do I... I feel like the indoctrination theory is honestly just fans trying to make the ending make sense. If you're going to fix this, Bioware, then fix it. Make it a hallucination and repair from there

[defenestrated]

Amdnro wrote...

And combined with this flow chart, the game's 'destination' is as flawless as the 'journey'

That flowchart is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

[mattp516]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I said it in the last thread, I'll say it again.

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

Print it out. Put it on a wall in a conference room somewhere. Sit the writers and development team down and ask them, "How can we address each of these issues?"

Honestly, I have to agree with this. The article is a well-written summary of the bulk of our grievances.

I would like to add that I don't mind the endings being bittersweet, or Shep dying (indeed, he kind of HAD to for the story to be concluded in the same vein in which it began).

That said, the current ending DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. The breathing "secret" ending makes no sense (how did he get back to earth, how is he alive, ect.) and the bit with the jungle planet doesn't make sense.

I know a lot of people are saying they want blue babies.... whatever (I romanced Ash). I just want an ending that a) makes sense and doesn't require elaborate fan theories to understand. Don't make us debate about the end, just give us an end. Also give us cutscenes that reflect the decisions we made throughout the game.

Thanks for listening!

[ThaDan64]

My observations:

I enjoyed the whole Earth sequence up until you get hit by Harbinger's
beam. It stopped making sense, and doesn't make sense without the indoc
theory. For example, my renegade scars disappeared once i got hit by
Harbinger's beam for the rest of the conclusion? The heck? I haven't really seen this one reported so maybe it was just a glich. I don't know.

I
didn't like how the crucible was a magically working change the galaxy
cannon which was determined by the catalyst. Clearly no one had been to
(or met?) the catalyst because it said you were the first organic to do so. (Even the keepers didnt know about something this big on the citadel?) So,
how did all of the previous races who collectively built the plans for
the crucible know how to use it if no one actualy met/(went to) the cayalyst to study it? This is why I think the indoc theory is
the only theory that can really repair the wound of plotholes. I also think the Crucible should be able to fail with a low enough EMS because you were not able to get large enough support for the project. This could be one of the failed endings.

ALSO, We all know that the citadel was supposed to be the very first place the Reapers hit every 50,000 years, right? So how was a collective blueprint such as the Crucible made by multiple races throughout time when almost every species lost the citadel early on at the end of their cycle!? In other words, how were they able to study the citadel to the point of understanding how it could be used as a power source for the crucible if most if not all species lost their citadel as soon as the reapers hit.

I know a lot of people criticised BW for not having a final boss, but I really liked it. I felt like Kai Leng was the final boss but you still had work to do to in order to save the galaxy. TIM would have made a sucky final boss imo.

------
My opinions:

I think you should go with the Indoctrination theory. Conclude with Drew Karpyshyn's Dark Energy Story.

Choosing to destroy the reapers is the only option which should allow you to break free from indoctrination, because you're committing to your original resolve throughout all three games: destroying the reapers.

Once you break free from indoctrination, you get up from the rubble on earth which is seen in the destory reapers high EMS ending and proceed to help your two squadmates up. At which point you make the real approach to the citadel beam. Once on the citadel, the ending will actually split up based on your decisions throughout all three games.

Ending showing the people of various races cheering victory or fearing defeat based on your ending. Closure: If shepard is alive, show shep with romance(maybe with kids, blue babies, turian kids, etc). Show what your former and current teammates are up to if they survived, etc. If Shep died, show your former teammates at your funeral like what was done for Eve.

------
My thanks to BioWare and the community:

Thank you BioWare for listening. I commend you and this community for their various ideas, theories, and for the community's support of BioWare.

Modifié par ThaDan64, 18 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[AeronGreed]

If the indoctrination theory is actually right, then Bioware can do soo much!
If you haven't heard of this theory then check out this video for a start:



Post indoctrination stuff:

- Get Shepard patched up after surviving the indoctrination process

-maybe those 3 pillars surrounding that beam are reaper tech which attempted to indoctrinate shepard? Maybe those are the last line of defenses against people attempting to reach the beam. Get them indoctrinated to stop them in their tracks.

-Maybe captain Anderson dies in reality, saving the unconscious Shepard

-The Illusive man looses his humanity much like Saren did when he fought Shepard on the Citadel.

-Get to see more of your allied forces such as: The Blood pact, eclipse, blue suns, Grissom academy biotics, old squad mates fighting the good fight. Having Geth and Quarians side by side. Or even having everyone you gathered stand with Shepard, etc.

-Take the fight to other places on earth

-Normandy vs Reaper action

-Harbinger vs Shepard! honestly harbinger has just been talking to Shepard through holographic communications, and through possessed collectors. Time to go face to face is now!

-Endings that make your choices matter

-A playable epilogue, and see all the fruits of your decisions 10 years? after the war?

Just some of my suggestions, not saying that this is how things should be, but a man's allowed to dream xD

Modifié par AeronGreed, 18 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[KelaSaar]

I think the best way to fix the ending is to use the Indoctrination Theory. It allows you to keep what’s already in the game and fixes a lot of the plot holes. Then you can have Shepard wake back up after throwing off the Reaper Indoctrination, have an awesome showdown against TIM and Harbinger (whose a fantastic villain and really deserves to have an actual presence in ME3), and save the day without destroying the Mass Relays. Shepard, the squad members, and various other NPCs/groups then live or die based on decisions and war assets. Then have a playable epilogue/funeral scene and finish up with information on what happens to everyone going forward a la Dragon Age: Origins or Fallout 3. Also, I really feel that whether Shepard lives or dies should be based on player actions and not forced on anyone. Ultimately, I think the most important thing, regardless of what you end up doing, is to tell us what happens to everyone, make our decisions count, and offer a wide variety of divergent endings

[Greer]

As to what I would suggest? Rip out the ending. From the time Harbinger's beam hits, this is what should have happened (initally found on gamefaqs.com; I am not the original author):

The original ending was SUPPOSED to be extremely varied. Everything remained the same up until the part when Harbinger shoots at you and your team. This is when information that has appeared here already comes into play. There were going to be various outcomes determining how you reached the citadel and it was HOW you got there that determined what endings would be available to you. The following were the different scenarios from worst to best (based on EMS and war assets)

A: Your whole squad gets wiped out (the two crew members you took with you, Anderson). You struggle to make it to the citadel. Right as you're about to make it to the beam, Harbinger talks to you, saying you've been defeated and he kills you. Joker tries to swoop down to save you, but he also gets shot down.

B: Most of your squad gets wiped out. Still only you are able to make it to the citadel. Once up there, you must confront the illusive man alone. Because of this, unless you have high reputation and either talk him down or renegade interrupt and shoot him, he kills you and tries to control the reapers, but fails as he discovers he was indoctrinated.

C: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together and make your way to the control panel where you confront TIM. The same thing plays out where you can talk him down. With high enough reputation, you can "save" Anderson but its not necessary for you to make it to the next part. Anderson dies after TIM is shot or kills himself like in the ending we got.

D: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together while you're two squad maters, who clearly survive, are holding off the reapers from following you to the citadel. Everything continues the same here as "C" until after TIM is shot and killed and the final conversation that Anderson and Shepard have (which is much longer than what we got). You get the shorter convo in C.

[The following you only see with outcome "C' and "D"] Shepard looks out at the war going on and activates the crucible. Hacketts says its not working. This is when Harbinger talks to Shepard through TIM as he lies on the ground. Harbinger tries to convince you that you've fail but you can argue with him. Harbinger says that he has your crew in his cross hairs. We see the Normandy arrive (the joker dialogue that was cut) and the rest of your friends help the two squad members you brought with you face off against Harbinger and his reaper minions.

You basically have a choice. You can submit to him and he claims he will spare your squad and earth until the next cycle because he is impressed that you were able to make it this far. This is when the motive of the reapers is more clearly established. Harbinger reveals that in the previous cycle, the prothean empire became too vast and they began to control all the other races, which would have prevented all of our races from developing. However, through more discussion, Shepard can uncover their true motives. They fear that they will be rivaled by something more powerful than they are (that this cycle will create AI that can topple the reapers). This implies they are merely fearful for their own survival and that is why they purge all life but they convince themselves they are protecting us.

Either way, you can submit to him and save your people or take your chances. Having 4000 EMS, not submitting to him you would lose everyone, but still eventually get to the three choices we actually got (more on this in a second). Having 5000+ and depending on how you resolved conflicts between characters and races, certain people will live or die.

After rejecting him (whether you lose everyone or not), you end up in the area where vent boy was but hes not there. It's just you and "Harbinger". He explains that a new solution is needed. The solution he tries to convince you to take is merge (to perseve his kind). But if you have high enough reputation once again, you can open the control and destroy option. Harbinger tries to talk you out of it by discussing how your races are divided and mentioning the geth incident. You convince him otherwise, and it is at this point, the control option opens next where he admits that shepard may have a perspective he never considered. Harbinger tells Shepard that if he destroys them, the relays will be destroyed as will the geth (which is true. This is the only ending where the relays are destroyed).

Now for the four endings.

If you submit to him before the three main choices, the reapers leave earth but end up wiping out every other race who haven't proved themselves worthy. Shepard dies.

If you merge, the reapers leave and like the ending we got, we see all the characters we know with green eyes as a green light brightens the sky. Shepard dies for the same reasons in the ending we got.

The control option, the reapers leave. Everyone cautiously celebrates while joker and your LI look up to the sky and wonder what exactly happened. Life goes on but its hinted that the reaper threat may return. This ending ends on a cliffhanger.

The destroy ending does destroy the relays, but its implied that with all the races on earth, they, together, will restore what they lost and will attempt to work together. if shepard lives, your LI leading your squad, will be looking for you. You are beamed back down to earth (its assumed shepard was somehow blasted into the beam? this is the only questionable part). It ends with shepard's hand coming out of the rubble and breathing. Still a cliffhanger of sorts, but you can assume they will find him/her obviously.

[mattp516]

defenestrated wrote...

Amdnro wrote...

And combined with this flow chart, the game's 'destination' is as flawless as the 'journey'

That flowchart is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Not too fond of the fact that if you don't save the Quarians, you die straight up. Other than that it's a pretty good representation of what I (at least) was expecting.

[jarrettwold]

What I'm starting to get leery of, is hoping that Bioware takes these detailed story lines and flowcharts as broad strokes of wish or desire, rather than some kind of master plan. They're far better storytellers than I am and most of us are. That's just Q.E.D. I want something better as an alternate ending, and I like my idea of a Keeper retcon, that I posted earlier.

I could be so full of crap with my little idea. So very, very easy. That's why I'm not a video game developer or an author. It's not what I do. I'm also leery of people championing a "design by committee" ending and predicating their hopes on it. Because, at that point any alternate ending won't satisfy them. "Well if they had just used this flowchart or that idea, it would have been done right"

The vast majority of people are giving really constructive feedback in terms of what they liked (most of us like everything up until those last couple of minutes) and what they don't like.

As a community we shouldn't be ratcheting our expectations up so high that there is no way Bioware could meet them. Asking for an alternate ending is an already high expectation, that's going to be tough from a development angle.

[DCYNIGR8]

LadyoftheLake wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

FFS enough with suggesting mandatory Shepard death...give options

this.

I know some of you really love heroic sacrifice and downer tragic endings and you should have an option to have what you want.  but so do the people who like heroic victories and reuniting with their LI/friends.

options, people.  options are lovely.

I want a choice for a ending that is at least relatively happy.

Yeah, there should be an option for this. Especially if it came down to a matter of how much is Sheprard willing to sacrifice to get that 'happy' ending. Could turn out to be more wrenching than an ending where Shepard dies.

Modifié par DCYNIGR8, 18 mars 2012 - 02:21 .

[mattp516]

Greer wrote...

As to what I would suggest? Rip out the ending. From the time Harbinger's beam hits, this is what should have happened (initally found on gamefaqs.com; I am not the original author):

The original ending was SUPPOSED to be extremely varied. Everything remained the same up until the part when Harbinger shoots at you and your team. This is when information that has appeared here already comes into play. There were going to be various outcomes determining how you reached the citadel and it was HOW you got there that determined what endings would be available to you. The following were the different scenarios from worst to best (based on EMS and war assets)

A: Your whole squad gets wiped out (the two crew members you took with you, Anderson). You struggle to make it to the citadel. Right as you're about to make it to the beam, Harbinger talks to you, saying you've been defeated and he kills you. Joker tries to swoop down to save you, but he also gets shot down.

B: Most of your squad gets wiped out. Still only you are able to make it to the citadel. Once up there, you must confront the illusive man alone. Because of this, unless you have high reputation and either talk him down or renegade interrupt and shoot him, he kills you and tries to control the reapers, but fails as he discovers he was indoctrinated.

C: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together and make your way to the control panel where you confront TIM. The same thing plays out where you can talk him down. With high enough reputation, you can "save" Anderson but its not necessary for you to make it to the next part. Anderson dies after TIM is shot or kills himself like in the ending we got.

D: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together while you're two squad maters, who clearly survive, are holding off the reapers from following you to the citadel. Everything continues the same here as "C" until after TIM is shot and killed and the final conversation that Anderson and Shepard have (which is much longer than what we got). You get the shorter convo in C.

[The following you only see with outcome "C' and "D"] Shepard looks out at the war going on and activates the crucible. Hacketts says its not working. This is when Harbinger talks to Shepard through TIM as he lies on the ground. Harbinger tries to convince you that you've fail but you can argue with him. Harbinger says that he has your crew in his cross hairs. We see the Normandy arrive (the joker dialogue that was cut) and the rest of your friends help the two squad members you brought with you face off against Harbinger and his reaper minions.

You basically have a choice. You can submit to him and he claims he will spare your squad and earth until the next cycle because he is impressed that you were able to make it this far. This is when the motive of the reapers is more clearly established. Harbinger reveals that in the previous cycle, the prothean empire became too vast and they began to control all the other races, which would have prevented all of our races from developing. However, through more discussion, Shepard can uncover their true motives. They fear that they will be rivaled by something more powerful than they are (that this cycle will create AI that can topple the reapers). This implies they are merely fearful for their own survival and that is why they purge all life but they convince themselves they are protecting us.

Either way, you can submit to him and save your people or take your chances. Having 4000 EMS, not submitting to him you would lose everyone, but still eventually get to the three choices we actually got (more on this in a second). Having 5000+ and depending on how you resolved conflicts between characters and races, certain people will live or die.

After rejecting him (whether you lose everyone or not), you end up in the area where vent boy was but hes not there. It's just you and "Harbinger". He explains that a new solution is needed. The solution he tries to convince you to take is merge (to perseve his kind). But if you have high enough reputation once again, you can open the control and destroy option. Harbinger tries to talk you out of it by discussing how your races are divided and mentioning the geth incident. You convince him otherwise, and it is at this point, the control option opens next where he admits that shepard may have a perspective he never considered. Harbinger tells Shepard that if he destroys them, the relays will be destroyed as will the geth (which is true. This is the only ending where the relays are destroyed).

Now for the four endings.

If you submit to him before the three main choices, the reapers leave earth but end up wiping out every other race who haven't proved themselves worthy. Shepard dies.

If you merge, the reapers leave and like the ending we got, we see all the characters we know with green eyes as a green light brightens the sky. Shepard dies for the same reasons in the ending we got.

The control option, the reapers leave. Everyone cautiously celebrates while joker and your LI look up to the sky and wonder what exactly happened. Life goes on but its hinted that the reaper threat may return. This ending ends on a cliffhanger.

The destroy ending does destroy the relays, but its implied that with all the races on earth, they, together, will restore what they lost and will attempt to work together. if shepard lives, your LI leading your squad, will be looking for you. You are beamed back down to earth (its assumed shepard was somehow blasted into the beam? this is the only questionable part). It ends with shepard's hand coming out of the rubble and breathing. Still a cliffhanger of sorts, but you can assume they will find him/her obviously.

Simply wonderful. Hire this man. Well, not this man, but whoever wrote this. Haha.

[TexasToast712]

 Laser sight weapon mods for AR's, Pistols, and SMG's. Will increase accuracy like a scope without zoom for those who don't want a scope. Get on it , Bioware. Also, MOAR HANDCANNONS!