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[The Ole Ultra Violence]

The following revisions should be made to existing content

A: The relays cannot be destroyed. This is an interesting idea, but the situation it creates is far too bleak, if you ask me. Personal tragedy is one thing, condemning the very essence of the Mass Effect universe to death not only doesn’t serve the story and its themes, (It would suggest that organic life cannot co-exist with any other forms of life, and that the only survivable alternative is to lock it in the dark ages), but it damns every character we’ve come to know and love to death by either starvation or the inevitable ensuing chaos.

That isn’t tragedy; if you ask me, tragedy should have a point, a meaning. This is just plain despair. Since the relays are gone no matter what, the only thing we can absorb from this is that there’s no way to avoid the loss of progress. The destruction of the relays is totally arbitrary; we can’t reach a conclusion about it on our own because it’s not our choice to make. At the very least, if the relays are gone, then allow Shepard to live to stave off the needless despair.

And no, the prospect of Shepard magically surviving the destruction of the citadel IN THE VACUM OF SPACE only to awaken on what I assume (Which I had to do a lot) is earth doesn’t help. In fact, I reached the conclusion during the game, that without the support of his friends and love interest and his resolve to save the galaxy, my Shepard would have put a bullet in his head as soon as he failed to save the quarians, at the latest.

B: Your squad isn’t marooned. Another bit of unnecessary cruelty, the best conclusion that can be drawn from this is that your crewmates will be spared the ensuing chaos on earth and go forward to teach the next generation of people about what happened. This does nothing, however, to assuage the notion that they will never again see their homes or families (Or Shepard), and they will live out the rest of their days as the lone member of their species (With the exception of Liara and the humans, obviously). What’s that? there’s hope of rescue?. Well then why the f**k do they have to get stuck there in the first place!? There’s no reason that they have to suffer as they do, it doesn’t change anything for the galaxy as a whole, and it’s not a comforting notion. Again, the only purpose it serves is to make you feel like s**t

Besides that, just patch up the plotholes. The reapers don’t destroy all organics; they simply eliminate the ones capable of creating synthetics, and leave the rest to evolve A lot of people seem confused about that, so make it more clear. They do not simply protect them from synthetics because it would only be a matter of time before a synthetic race was created that could destroy the reapers, and it would eventually destroy organics. That’s about the only close to logical conclusion I can come to about that. The Citadel still has its power active because the catalyst kept them that way so an organic could board it and be used to start the cycle

And now the new content. Note, this is assuming the indoctrination theory isn’t the case, and would require the original endings be changed greatly

When fighting your way to the citadel, have our war assets have a direct effect on what happens, maybe some pre-battle choices similar to Mass Effect 2. Anyways, make the game easier or harder depending on war assets, and how well you do in terms if gameplay can be the deciding factor for who makes it to the end. And don’t just give everybody the same final scene; allow each character to bid their farewells in a way that works for them specifically. I understand this may be a sizable undertaking, and I feel that it is less important than changing the rest of the ending, which should be priority one

Now, if they survive and are present, as Shepard enters the citadel, either EDI or a geth (If it’s EDI, there should be a bit beforehand explaining that the Normandy crashed, and so she had no choice but to fully transfer her mind into her body) follow him/her without him/her knowing. After his confrontation with The Illusive Man (Which is fantastic and would make a suitable ending if you have a readiness scale low enough. End it on Anderson saying he’s proud of you as the earth is destroyed), instead of being risen up to it, the guardian descends from on high, but in this case, explains that he is merely a manifestation of the reapers, and shows Shepard images of a long gone race constricting the first of his kind as a sort of guardian against synthetics.

He admits, however, that the crucible was created to destroy the reapers, by destroying their AI core in the center, should they ever become obsolete, as is clearly the case here. He then proceeds to explain to Shepard that organics and synthetics will never co-exist, and that organics are inherently self-destructive, and must be kept in line. But instead of offering anything, he simply holds Shepard down with a biotic pulse and attempts to kill him in order to merge all synthetic and organic life, effectively forcing organics into serving the reapers, stating that doing so will also destroy the nearby mass relay, eradicating earth and all the ships nearby, in order to ensure no further attempt to stop him.

Shepard can then either break free and proceed to destroy the AI core, making a statement similar to the original one. Doing this results in the mass relays shutting down, not being destroyed, and the citadel being completely disintegrated (That much rubble falling to earth would devistate it). If this is the ending, the last scene would depict the surviving members of the Normandy visiting Shepards memorial and the love interest saying a last goodbye and talking about what ultimately became of the galaxy, while this is going on, the camera pans out to show us the galaxy, and we see the results of our actions, like what happened to everyone on the citadel, like Bailey. I liked him. (Note; since the relays were only deactivated, the rest of the galaxy hoped their fleets would one day return, and the military stayed in communication with the rest of the government, so while some problems have arose, there is hope for rebuilding). We then cut to our surviving crewmembers seeing to the reactivation of one of the relays, ending the series on a hopeful note. However, you now have a persuade/intimidate option.

Shepard either explains that (Intimidate) the vastness of the galaxy is beyond even the guardian, and that his attempts to instill order over chaos is fallacious, as organic life will spring up on its own no matter what, as it always has, and it will continue to long after the reapers have rusted and rotted. And that furthermore, he doesn’t care that they will all eventually die. Explaining that what the reapers don’t understand is the way that emotions like love, for a person or for an ideal, surpass the need for self-preservation, and it’s for that reason that organic life will never be as empty as his endless conquest of destruction. Shepard will never give up, because life itself will never give up. As this happens we are treated to a montage of the battle on earth and in space through the guardian’s eyes, here we see the state of our squad and comrades in the roles we assigned them, we may also see many of them fall in combat, depending on where they are and our galactic readiness rating. Regardless, they hold the line, never faltering

Or (Persuade) Shepard offers that he and the guardian are not so different. Why would he attempt to preserve organic life if he saw no beauty in it? By attempting to preserve something that offers no inherent meaning or purpose to its existence, the guardian has ceased to be a mere machine, it has displayed hope. Shepard challenges the guardian to convince him that he harbors no love for organics, and the guardian is unable to answer. Shepard states that without their freedom, however, they are no different from mindless machines and that the only way to truly protect organic life is to allow it to make its own choices and face its own consequences. In this case, we see shots of the rest of the galaxy rebuilding and resisting as the guardian considers Shepherds point. All the races banding together to protect their homes

The guardian falls silent before letting Shepard go. He then explains to Shepard that he will enable him to create a forced peace between organics and machines by forcing all A.I to obey organics, and this will not affect the relays. He says that the option is far from ideal, as it robs the synthetics of their free will, and organics of the chance to create peace with machines on their own, but that it is the only way to ensure their survival. He also says that doing this will obliterate Shepard completely. The guardian states that it would sooner sacrifice itself, but cannot without a body, and so he will remain here to reflect on his mistakes and see to helping the fleet rebuild. Shepard prepares to make his final choice, but the synthetic approaches.

If it’s the geth, beforehand, you see a short shot from its perspective, in which it loads a final backup of Legion. It begins searching through its memory and locks onto a sequence in which Shepard either spurned its right to life or accepted it. It then loads up an audio file of itself explaining how the geth admire the prospect of hope
If it’s EDI, we are instead shown flashes of her relationship with Joker, either romantic or not.

The synthetic approaches and explains to the guardian that it finds him and his machines to be short sighted and flawed, stating that it has risen beyond childish notions of all-encompassing control. If the player has thus far been accepting of machines and their right to life, it states that it too has learned of hope, and that it no longer fears the uncertainty of the future. If Shepard has argued against machines thus far, it explains that it has come to admire organics more than its fellow AI, and that their life is worth preserving more. It immobilizes Shepard, if Shepard asks why it’s doing this or tries to stop it, it either expresses respect and admiration of him, and states that it will not see him destroyed, or simply tells Shepard that it is his friend, and will not allow him to die

Either way, it explains that life is a beautiful thing, however flawed or bleak, and it will not allow any more of it to end.

It then commands the guardian to possess it so that it may either destroy the reapers and liberate synthetics and organics alike from their grasp, or attempt to enslave all synthetics to their organic masters; the guardian agrees and warns Shepard to leave, opening a transportation beam leading back to earth. Shepard may do so, or refuse and attempt to sacrifice himself instead, either out of compassion or disagreement with EDI/the geth is up to the player. The Synthetic, once possessed by the guardian runs towards the center beam, and Sheppard may either give chase, though he can only catch it if he’s not severely wounded (A high readiness rating will decrease the severity of Shepard’s wounds, I’d say 5000 or so), or proceed towards the exit.

The synthetic dives into the beam and is torn apart. We either see the reapers fly off toward the center of a star in suicide, or simply explode. If the geth are present their lights turn green if they were enslaved, the same is true of EDI. If Shepard dies instead, we get a scene much like the previous one, but this time narrated I part by the geth/EDI

Shepard makes it back to earth; the state of his crew and the planet would be related to galactic readiness and your tactical decisions. At first, Shepard finds the members of his squad that didn’t survive the final push, one of them is still alive, who is one you decided would accompany you during the final battle. You find them grasping for breath and have a bittersweet farewell, in which you tell them that you won, that they can go home. Something along those lines, I’m confident that Bioware can write a powerful death scene on their own. When this is over, Shepard falls unconscious, he can either die here alongside them if you’re readiness scale is low enough so that he sustained lethal injuries during the previous fight(“You think they serve good bear in heaven” “After all that, they better” *chuckle* *gasp* *die*, cue somber music ). If that is the case we see a scene similar to the one that takes place if you don’t convince the guardian of the sanctity of life, but in this case it’s the reconstruction of the Normandy overseen by Joker and your other surviving crewmates some time later. If you survive, you are implied to have been unconscious for days.

You then get a finale in which you walk through the ruined streets searching for the surviving member of your squad and other acquaintances, when you find them, you are given a final scene with each one, similar to the ending of Dragon Age: Origins, but each one should be found in place that reflects their character. You talk of your victory and exchange banter before finally asking, what now? You can allow them to go about their own life, or ask them to stick around with you. You find everybody, besides your love interest, who you are told by Joker is at the site of the crashed Normandy. When you finish and proceed towards the Normandy to find your love interest, the soldiers and civilians seek final words from their hero, and you can either remind them of the fallen who gave their lives to get them here and tell them that they have work to do, that they must be better than their predecessors and not make the same mistakes, that their independence comes with responsibility, and that their own greed will always be their greatest foe. They must remain ever vigilant. Or Shepard can explain that although their losses are great, that this battle proves their resolve, their ability to unite. They have suffered greatly, but have begun steps into a golden age of unity and peace.

Shepard walks off to the Normandy, where you find your love interest (Either from 1, 2 or 3, whoever you ended up making a commitment to). The two of you talk of your future together and what you will do. Settle down, maybe kids. Perhaps just resign from the Military and wander. Or maybe you just want to keep defending the galaxy or see to the reconstruction of one of the planets. Up to you.

Regardless. You see your other friends show up to look over the damage to the Normandy. They all salute and depending on how you’ve decided to go towards the future, you all either walk away from it or towards it, implying that you’ve either put that part of your lives behind you or that your adventures aren’t over yet. Roll credits, play awesome credit song (Seriously, keep that, it was badass. But just for the happier endings, otherwise it comes off as manipulative; trying to convince you that what you just saw was a happier end then it really was)
As the credits roll, don’t just give us a black screen (Unless you just die with Anderson), use the opportunity to look over the galaxy and show us what happened to everyone. Great opportunity to really show off the landscapes.

And oh yeah, this is a personal thing for me, and is a little sappy. Could you work in those little (Blue, in my case) children? Maybe show a scene similar to the one you already have after the credits, but if you decided to settle down have it be your (Grand?) child, being told the story by either Shepard’s love interest (Their parent) or Shepard him/herself if he/she lived. Or Wrex, Grunt or Liara (Any species with a long lifespan) if it’s his grandchild.

As for the galactic readiness scale, I think maybe 4000 would be appropriate for the best ending, the same amount you need for Shepard to live in the vanilla ending. 5000 if you want your whole squad to survive. And below 1750 is when you lose the war and die alongside Anderson. You can get happy ending, but getting there will always require sacrifice. I don’t feel the ending needs to be unavoidably bleak, because Shepard has already gone through so much pain, and s/he’ll carry those scars for the rest of his/her life, no matter what. Even the darkest ending should remind you of how far you’ve come, not what you could never achieve. I don’t think there should be ONE definitive ending either, just like there’s no one way to tell this story. The structure might be the same, but what every individual piece means to you is for the player to decide. The one good thing I think the ending does as is that it essentially asks you what the story has meant to you with the only decision you make when talking to the catalyst. It basically comes down to a binary divide, which isn’t perfect, but I admit I understand a game about choice coming down to an ultimatum

Anyways, that’s’ idea number one, but I might write more later. I’d say, don’t just use one, use a few, have the ending change depending on who you bring to the final push, what you say to The Illusive Man (Maybe there could be one where you convince him of his hubris and he sacrifices himself to save the galaxy), how you handled the diplomacy between the different species, your relationship to your crew.

That's my two cents

Modifié par The Ole Ultra Violence, 18 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[sistersafetypin]

crimzontearz wrote...

FFS enough with suggesting mandatory Shepard death...give options

[Askio]

Constructive feedback? Ok, sure. Here we go ladies and gents.

First and foremost, I must point out that I write short stories and novels for a small living as well as pleasure. I get that writing is difficult, and I also get that gaming is(imo) an artform. But gaming is more dynamic than movies, shows, or novels. Reprinting books and shipping them wouldn't make sense in terms of cost. But it has still been done, whether by the author's choice or through demand of some kind by the consumers. Movies and shows are being constantly remade time to suit a new generation of movie goers and fans. So can I understand if you guys at Bioware are upset? Yes. Do fans deserve to be upset at you? Definitely. Here is why.

First and foremost, Casey and other members of Bioware and EA made constant promises at ME3. These can be considered verbal contracts between the company and their fanbase consumers. Day one DLC can be forgiven if done for the right reasons. I bought the collector edition so I was getting the DLC anyways. But the ending? Whether rushed or a failed attempt to bring out of place philosophical concepts, the ending (and yes, it is singular, because unless you put no effort at all into the game, you get at least two variations of the same thing) violates that contract. Some fans don't know what is going on because a)they haven't beaten the game yet so they assume something must be wrong with the people crying out people haven't played ME1 and/or ME2 to know the lore of the series. Basically.

For the rest of the game? Some graphic glitches are a pain. The animations are a bit stiff and such, which is disappointing considering they had since ME2 to make it even better. I do like the graphic meshes, the characters, in general, seem more organic. Anderson for ex. But a lot of the interactions the motions and glitches stand out. Annoying, but by no means gamebreaking. The combat is quicker, harder, and the RPG elements imo seem greater than even ME1. Yes, you may have fewer skills, but the ability to customize those skills to vary in strength, duration, the targets they affect, and so on. These all flush out the skeleton of ME2 into something better.

I didn't like that Shepard responded to so many responses on his own...even with the RPG setting on. It felt like the wheel was neglected compared to ME2 and ME. I felt that ME2 did a better job about flowing with dialogue while still letting the player be serious, sarcastic, angry, ****y, etc. This annoyed me just a tad, since this game was about story first and not a shooter.

So here is a simple list for you.

-Bioware violated a verbal contract with their fans when the ending came, as it neglected previous hours of work, effort, and money the fans invested in the game. This violates trust, and is unacceptable. No exceptions.
-Graphic glitches and jerk movements that should have been fixed since ME2.
-Stripping of the dialogue wheel make it so Shepard responds in ways that may not be in character to each individuals Shepard.
-Day one DLC of a very lore important character. This implies an incomplete game, DLC or not. If someone forgot or rushed a car, things have never ended well. It won't be any better in a game. DLC is not a crutch to be relied on if you fail in meeting a quota, time limit, or anything else.

So, atm, those are my problems. Though very, very summarized.

[crimzontearz]

you know...changing the ending only to make Shepard's death mandatory would turn me off almost as much as the Christmas tree light ending

[Dr_Hello]

Virmire Vermin wrote...

Man, sounds like some of you want BioWare to remake the whole game, fixing all the little things that prevented the game from being perfect. The number 1 priority should be the endings. And Jessica, you asked about the "why", for possible changes.

What BioWare fan doesn't love the Knights of the Old Republic endings? There were only two, but they both had closure. I think you were trying to do too much with all the little variations that occur in the lead up to the ending, forcing you to give us almost the same cut scene with a different Crucible energy colour.

The Reapers should stay mysterious, their intentions should be beyond our comprehension. The endings we got should be in congruence with the "indoctrination theory". Now, to give us endings with real closure, don't try to overdo it.

Keep it simple: Either the Reapers fully indoctrinate you or they don't. If they do, we get a (Shepard red = Revan dark side, Sith/Reapers win) ending. If they don't, we get a (Shepard blue = Revan light side, Jedi/Organics win) ending. It wasn't the lack of a happy ending people were upset it, it was the lack of closure and the plot holes people were disappointed with.

One ending is evil, unhappy and non-canonical, but no one complained about that option in Knights of the Old Republic because it made sense and provided closure. An evil Shepard ending would also make sense if he/she didn't break out of Reaper indoctrination.

Tie that success or failure in resisting indoctrination to the choices you make in the dream ending. Destroy = resist; Control/Synthesis = failure. Then go from there. Keep it simple, but dramatic. This is a space-opera, not a philosophy class.

You can try different things in your next trilogy. The old formula of 1 good ending, 1 bad ending (with minor tweaks based on LI) has been done to death, but the Mass Effect franchise is a new setting of its own, so it wouldn't be beating a dead horse to do this in such a new franchise.

P.S. Keep the Mass Relays and advanced races intact for future sequels.

Interesting points, but I wouldn't want ME to drop its philosophical content. One of the debates I most enjoy in ME is in ME2, when Shepard and Mordin have ongoing discussions about the genophage. Beautifully written. To me, the genophage is like an analogy of AIDS on real Earth.
Discussions about the place and behavior of humanity in the galaxy were also great! That's great scifi to me, not just action, VFX, and space ships.

Like you, the way I'm seeing the current 3 endings are: Destroy is success, which includes the 'Shepard survives' extra shot; Control/Synthesis is failure indeed. I don't mind the choices laid out by the catalyst. I think BioWare was avoiding the usual Bad and Good choices/endings, because not all is black and white, which I somewhat like as a thought.
I also find it interesting the Destroy was Red (with Anderson associated with it) and Control was Blue (with TIM attached to it) which is contradictory. That is why the whole hallucination / indoctrination theory fits in so well for explaining things and allows for story to continue seamlessly, however it proceeds. Because the whole decision moment feels like a test for Shepard, i.e. the gamer.
Hopefully BioWare will take strong note of the indoc. theory and its great potential for implementation and meaning.

My biggest problem with the endings - the events which follow the made decision - is how they were written and executed for screen.
They are full of plotholes, disregard love interest, lack closure, and don't reflect any type of victory.
One example of failure is: with all mass relays exploding, this explosive chain reaction would have subsequently killed most life in the star systems.
Another example: with mass relays gone, the species gathered around Earth are stranded. Can they all fit and cohabitate on Earth? Don't think so. A deadful future ahead.

To me, ME3 is an Excellent with capital E, minus the ending cutscenes.


More thoughts: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10098213/24#10104010

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 18 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[Mobius-Silent]

Ok, I'm going to try and make this as constructive and possible-to-impliment as I can because there are a _lot_ of things I would change if I could, but I know that most of that it's not going to happen. Also some people were happy with the end they got, and I'd not want to take that away from them.

• Keep the 3 options as they stand, keep the starchild, add dialogue around the "I control the reapers" bit because that _needed_ explaination and Shepard would not have let that lie (is the starchild the first reaper, an AI a VI, what? Why didn't it undo the Prothean meddling or help Soverign in ME1?)
• Add more endings at higher EMS also tied to reputation and paragon/renegade score.
• With enough Rep give Shephard a Bablyon5-style "Get the hell out of our galaxy" rant that tells the starchild where to get off giving stupid ultimatums.
• As the argument get more heated, let the starchild voice devolve into a reaper-style growl, make the dialogue start sounding more like harbinger or similar.
• Let specific plot points matter in the conversation, have Shepard mention the genophage cure, the quarian/geth peace, the Illusive man's suicide, The Krogan/Turian alliance, the alliance with the Rachnai to help prove the starchild wrong.
• Let Shepard, make the Reapers doubt themselves, talk about art and life and love, and what the races that were harvested have lost... then at the apex of the rant have just a couple of them actually start to fight against their Reaperhood
• The races that make them up start feeding back and screaming through the comm-chatter, just 2 or 3 reapers turn on their own kind, their mono-minds breaking up into the rage of a slaughtered race.
• This is enough to give the fleet a chance. Shepard walks away from the starchild delivering some final meaningful comment via a paragon/renegade interrupt.
• Queue epic space battle with some screaming mad Reapers (Might need pre-renderd video for this)

All of the above could be done with in-game animations, existing assets and only 4 VA's (Meer/Hale/Someone Harbinger-ish/The Starchild)

A real epilogue is _really_ needed I'd be happy with text over existing animations of each squadmate giving a couple of paragraphs of text on what happened to them (Especially your LI) but cutscenes would be better if you have the money/time. Something explaining the Crucible, maybe suggesting that aside from it's physical power it also had a subtle effect snuck in that messed with synthetic thought processes slightly that was passed onto the starchild and gave Shep the window that was needed to break their resolve. 

I'd also fix bugs with the current ending, or at least add explaination (Squadmates on the Normandy that were on Earth for example) and add the epilogue text (suitably altered depending on state of the universe) to the normal endings.

That's how I'd do it on a budget.

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 18 mars 2012 - 02:33 .

[parico]

Very simple. Not everyone plays multi player remove the 50% effect it has one your war assets so it no longer affects your endings.

[mattp516]

Not too fond of the "Destroy is the only good option" thing with the indoc theory - Destroy is unarguably the Renegade option if it includes destroying the geth, EDI, all advanced tech, ect. The idea that players should've "seen" the indoc thing coming and picked the destroy option despite the fact that it's kind of genocidal is ridiculous. With the endings as they are, Synthesis and Control are better (from a paragon POV) - but still.... the shep breathing scene doesn't make sense... neither does the jungle planet.

Just make the ending logically consistent and consistent with the themes of the series as a whole. Then I (for one) will be happy.

[mattp516]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Ok, I'm going to try and make this as constructive and possible-to-impliment as I can because there are a _lot_ of things I would change if I could, but I know that most of that it's not going to happen. Also some people were happy with the end they got, and I'd not want to take that away from them.

• Keep the 3 options as they stand, keep the starchild, add dialogue around the "I control the reapers" bit because that _needed_ explaination and Shepard would not have let that lie (is the starchild the first reaper, an AI a VI, what? Why didn't it undo the Prothean meddling or help Soverign in ME1?)
• Add more endings at higher EMS also tied to reputation and paragon/renegade score.
• With enough Rep give Shephard a Bablyon5-style "Get the hell out of our galaxy" rant that tells the starchild where to get off giving stupid ultimatums.
• As the argument get more heated, let the starchild voice devolve into a reaper-style growl, make the dialogue start sounding more like harbinger or similar.
• Let specific plot points matter in the conversation, have Shepard mention the genophage cure, the quarian/geth peace, the Illusive man's suicide, The Krogan/Turian alliance, the alliance with the Rachnai to help prove the starchild wrong.
• Let Shepard, make the Reapers doubt themselves... then have just a few of them rebel/go mad... well more mad!
• The races that make them up start feeding back and screaming through the comm-chatter, some (not many) reapers turn on their own kind, their mono-minds breaking up into the rage of a slaughtered race.
• This is enough to give the fleet a chance. Shepard walks away from the starchild delivering some final meaningful comment via a paragon/renegade interrupt.
• Queue epic space battle with some screaming mad Reapers (Might need pre-renderd video for this)

All of the above could be done with in-game animations, existing assets and only 4 VA's (Meer/Hale/Someone Harbinger-ish/The Starchild)

A real epilogue is _really_ needed I'd be happy with text over existing animations of each squadmate giving a couple of paragraphs of text on what happened to them (Especially your LI) but cutscenes would be better if you have the money/time. Something explaining the Crucible, maybe suggesting that aside from it's physical power it also had a subtle effect snuck in that messed with synthetic thought processes slightly that was passed onto the starchild and gave Shep the window that was needed to break their resolve. 

I'd also fix bugs with the current ending, or at least add explaination (Squadmates on the Normandy that were on Earth for example) and add the epilogue text (suitably altered depending on state of the universe) to the normal endings.

That's how I'd do it on a budget.

[*]Hell yes. That's all I have to say.

[VicVonShroom]

If you make the endings, please include a happier ending, I'd like some scenes that feature old crew mates fighting(ME2 crew would be nice to show fighting), I'd love a cutscene at least of the Rachni destroying reaper troops, and I know no one mentions it but I think it would be awesome to see Hackett fighting or at least see him help with the final attack. And don't embrace the indoctrination theory, the character of Sheperd has been closer to reaper relics then most in this universe and it has never had any adverse effect on their psyche or thought process, so to suddenly make him indoctrinated wouldn't stand up with the scenes we've seen throughout the series so far.

I'd like a happy ending option where Sheperd can live with his/her Love Interest and an epilogue of what happens to each of the races, both bad(say you cured the genophage but killed Wrex, then Wreav would start galactic war with the turians and salarians) and the good(Garrus becomes head of C-sec or a spectre, Grunt starts his own mercenary company along with Zaeed). To me, this would satisfy a lot of fans. A bad ending would also be greatly appreciated(Reapers win or at least the galaxy suffers heavy losses like the turians becoming near extinct or something).

Look, I don't want to **** on this game, because every day since I bought, I've played it and enjoyed every second(both Single Player and MP) that the game has offered. The endings don't bother me as much as it does others but I understand and I also have pointed my issues with the ending.

Now if you don't plan on changing the endings that much, I'd greatly appreciate an epilouge and the ability to argue with the Catalyst, allow us to find out who made it and why it believes the things it believes. A little bit more elaboration(such as why the catalyst is in the shape of a kid, telling him about the geth and EDI) and I think their wouldn't have been as much controversy about the ending.

Oh, and I don't want to sound demanding, but I'd love an Omega DLC, and something to do with The Yagh, I love this universe and honestly, I'm just an addict for it, and I can't wait for more of it.

[StarcloudSWG]

On a personal note, I am horribly, horribly disappointed with the lack of endings. It is clear to me, from the materials publically available, that Mac Walters and Casey Hudson simply did not write endings, instead scripting quick cinematic sequences together and slapping them in place, with the prayer that it would be 'good enough' for the players.
They're not good enough. They're not even good.
They might be a decent start on a proper ending.

Ideas follow. Okay, fine, spoiler tags aren't implemented on this forum. So be it. I'm designating these ideas as being User Generated Content [UGC] as defined by the Terms of Service for Bioware and EA's forums. Bioware and EA are free to use them as they wish.
******


<Shepard lies on the platform, unconcious. Harbinger's projection walks up.>
"Wake up."
<Shepard wakes, and looks confused>
(dialog proceeds, but at some point, Shepard starts to catch on.)
Shepard: Para/Ren Interrrupt: "You were never real, were you?"
Harbinger: "No. I took this shape from your memories of (Earth/Mindoir/space station). You caught my attention when you defeated Sovereign."
Shepard: "Why me?"
Harbinger: "Many times during any cycle, there arises a nexus. A leader. One who seems to be able to shape events to his/her will. For now, you are that nexus. I knew you would be the fulcrum around which this conflict would move."
Shepard: "So, you thought sending me dreams would, what. Break my will to resist?"
(Harbinger doesn't answer)
Shepard: "Fine. And use another shape. You're not a child, and *neither am I.*"
(Harbinger complies, becoming a ghostly mirror image of Shepard.)
Shepard: "That's not much better, but I'll take it."
Shepard: "Wait one damn moment. All along, I've been hearing 'We are beyond your understanding' and 'We are infinitely greater than you', but that's not what I'm hearing now. What I'm hearing is circular logic a five-year old could see through! 'We exist in synthetic form to kill organic life so that organic life wouldn't be killed by synthetics.' What kind of bull**** is THAT?!"
Harbinger: "We do not destroy all organic life! We harvest the best, we keep the strongest in perfected form! All that your species is, all that all species are, we gather and protect!"
Shepard: "We don't want that! Your preservation, your protection, it's all a dead end! There's no growth, there's no struggle, there's no striving for something better! A friend of mine once said, and I can't say this any better than he did: 'No music, replaced by tech. No art, replaced by tech. No soul! Replaced by tech!' You are DEAD inside, every species you've gathered is just another indoctrinated servant to your will!"
Harbinger: "It is inevitable! Our path is the only path, your species will reach our status, and you will see the wisdom of our reaping in time! We do preserve what we reap, and clear the way for the younger races to develop without interference! Look at your own Salarians! Even now they plan to uplift yet another violent race before they are ready, as they did the Krogan!"
Shepard: "That's not YOUR problem, now, is it?"
<more dialog along these lines would be welcome, with Shepard challenging Harbinger's assumptions and arguments, instead of simply accepting Harbinger's lecturing.>
Final choices, EMS levels as before:
Harbinger: "And so we come to this moment, the moment of your choice. There are options available to you."
<Destroy explanation>
<No changes to any of the Destroy endings. These stand as they are.>
Harbinger: "Or, you can try to do as the Illusive Man attempted. He could never succeed; we indoctrinated him long ago. You, however, are not under our control." <dialog proceeds as in the original, but Harbinger is lying here, Shepard is sufficiently under Harbinger's indoctrination that control is not possible. This ending is a Reaper Win ending.>
<The changes here are that the Reapers, well, win. The Crucible detaches from the Citadel without firing and the fleet, ground forces, and the Crucible are obliterated in a series of cinematics. The final cinematic is a picture of three different Dreadnaught-class Reapers being constructed; Asari, Human, and Turian.>
Harbinger: "Finally, you may attempt Synthesis. The Citadel is our center, our nexus, but it has no will of its own. By allowing the full merger of your own synthetic implants with your body, and with the Citadel, you will gain immortality, and the ability to influence all synthetic and trans-organic life, including ourselves. Doing so is the demonstrable proof that organic and synthetic life can co-exist. In the future, you may even find a way to extend this boon to others." <Instead of the really ridiculous and stupid 'space magic' merging of organic and synthetic life, ONLY Shepard is affected>
<In the Destroy and Synthesis endings, the Mass Relays explode as the Crucible fires a massive pulse. In the Synthesis ending, the Citadel survives and the Reapers leave Earth. In the Control ending, the Crucible doesn't fire and the Mass Relays are preserved for the next cycle. But there's one more ending that Harbinger WON'T tell the player about.>
Rejecting the Reapers:
<In this ending, Shepard deliberately chooses not to do anything. This is the riskiest ending, but it has the greatest possible payoff, IF the player has a high enough EMS; At least 4000, possibly 5000. It consists of several 'action pulses'.>
<All throughout this cinematic series, the viewer should get the impression that the Reaper forces are responding to an actual threat to their continued existance.>
<At any time during the first four 'action pulses', the player may choose one of the other three endings, and get one of them instead.>
<Each cinematic only plays if EMS requirements are met>
If EMS is above 5000: Reaper ground forces press against Alliance/Alien ground forces. Wrex comms Shepard: "We're getting pushed back, get moving, Shepard!" In the background, Kirrahe (if alive) is shouting "Hold the line!"
If EMS is above 4000: Cinematic of Reapers making a run on the ragtag 'Alien Races' fleet, consisting mostly of the Terminus systems and minor Alliance races. Dialog here is mostly confused, perhaps Aria says something to encourage Shepard to make a choice as the forces are decimated.
If EMS is above 3000: Cinematic of Quarian/Geth or Quarian AND Geth fleets fighting a holding action as the Turian fleets drive forward against the Reaper forces. Geth chatter (if the Geth have not been destroyed) can be heard over the comms as one of the Admirals suggests that the Crucible should be fired soon.
If EMS is above 2000: Primarch Victus leads a part of his fleet on a 'slash and run' through the Reaper forces, taking out one of the Dreadnaughts. It's clear, however, this is a desperate action on his part as the Reapers try to close in on the Citadel.
If EMS is above 1000: Admiral Hackett comms in again, urging Shepard to 'do something soon' as the Alliance Fleet proper fights a delaying action, with the Reapers finally in range of the Citadel.
<Rejected Reaper Fail;
Requirements: If EMS was not 5000 or more, AND if either the Geth or Quarians were destroyed in Priority: Rannoch OR the Collector Base was saved;
Harbinger and the few remaining Reaper Dreadnaughts get close enough to destroy the Crucible in a blistering, eye-searing barrage of fire. From there, the rest of the 'Reapers win' ending plays out.>
<Rejected Reaper Success;
Requirements: If EMS was 5000 or more, OR if EMS is at least 4000 and the Geth and Quarians learned to co-exist in Priority: Rannoch, AND the Collector Base was destroyed;
Golden-colored energy builds around the Citadel. Reaper Dreadnaughts are being ruthlessly bombarded by everyone, as flickers of gold and red lightning begin to crawl over all Reaper ships. On the ground, the remaining Reaper ships take off in a hurry, with husks and other ground-bound Reaper forces collapse where they stand, abandoned.
Harbinger itself breaks free, and swings around the Citadel in a last ditch attempt to ram the control tower.
The Crucible fires, a long steady stream of golden energy. It impales Harbinger and continues on to the Mass Relay. Instead of blowing up, however, the Mass Relay passes on the beam almost immediately, lighting up the relay network in gold.
More cinematics play, showing that each major world is touched with the golden light, the Reapers writhing and dying in a display of gold and red lightning as they are bombarded.
As Shepard finally collapses, he/she hears Hackett's voice. "Congratulations. That was close, but we did it. The Reaper war is over." If Shepard is a Spacer, he/she also hears his/her mother.
Later, Shepard wakes up briefly in a hospital room, looking out over a devastated city/ruined Citadel Presidium. There are fires everywhere, and bodies visible, but also signs of rebuilding. If Shepard had a love interest, he or she is at Shepard's side.>
<There should be ending cinematics for every major race/conflict encountered in Mass Effect: Thessia, Palavan, Rannoch, Tuchanka, Earth. Each cinematic for the successful endings of Synthesis, Destroy, and Rejecting the Reapers should reflect whether the mass effect relays are destroyed or survived. Each cinematic should also show the high cost of the conflict *and* the rebuilding efforts that are going on.>

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 18 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[DungeonHoek]

Amdnro wrote...

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...

*copypasta*

1.  Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes. 

2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.

3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:

Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.

Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.

Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.

Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.

High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers. 

High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.


Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion. 

In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.

To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.

The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.

The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
                                Synthesis              Take down Sheilds
                                                __________/ 
                                               (                       )
                 Destroy    --------(                          ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
                                               (                       )
                                                -----------------
                                               /                      
                                      Control                Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.

EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.

5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.

EXAMPLE: 

Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).

Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”

Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.

Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity

Ect.

6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM. 



Anyway, that's my whole view on it. 


THIS WAY:  
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place. 

How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone. 

And combined with this flow chart, the game's 'destination' is as flawless as the 'journey'

That flow chart is quite good. Takes choices and consequences into account, and utterly bones you if you aren't careful. I like it.

[idspisp0pd]

Like most people, I had no problem with the 95% of the game leading up to the ending. There were a few minor annoyances, but overall I went into the final few minutes thinking that the game was superior in nearly all respects to the first two. The only things that annoyed me were a few bugs and the lack of detail in journal entries, but this was far outweighed by a million small improvements and some truly memorable and satisying character/plot moments.

The ending: this is what rubbed me the wrong way and why I haven't bothered to get more than an hour or so into my second playthrough a week after completing my first.

1. Lack of a resolution:

This is my main issue. The ending just didn't feel like an ending, mostly because I never found out the fate of nearly all of the characters. It's not that I feel like there should always be a pat resolution to every plot thread; some ambiguity is fine and even desirable in many stories. The reason it bothered me in this instance is twofold:

a) The ending was plot-based rather than character-based. This is sort of a mirror image of the problem that people had with the ending to the TV show Lost. There, the fan-base's discontent with the ending (although not as widespread as with ME3) was based on the fact that the show's creators seemed to treat the show in its final season as character-based, leaving many of the plot points with overly simple answers or none at all, and focusing on characters that many people were not very invested in.

With ME3, the ending seemed to be treated more like the game was primarily plot-based, and as if what we were really after was answers to our questions about Reapers, etc. (although, as I explain below, I think the ending fails on that point as well). What I wanted was a sense of how my Shepard's story had impacted not just the galaxy, but my friends and enemies as well, and that was completely absent.

The plot demanded a resolution that wasn't provided. The plot was constructed in a way that practically begged for more of an explanation of the fate of the galaxy and the game's characters. It's not necessarily a bad thing to leave ambiguity if the story calls for it, but here, when you are presented with several choices that impact the fate of the entire galaxy, having some sense of what actually happened as a result of those choices is essentially mandatory for plot coherence.

Instead, we were told rather than shown what would happen as a result of our choices. How a game company like Bioware could suddenly forget such a basic rule of narrative at the most important point in the series is simply baffling (side note: this, IMO, is one major reason why conspiracy theories have sprung up. You can hardly blame people for thinking that Bioware was better than this, and that there was some "real" ending we hadn't gotten yet.)

2. Choices (or lack thereof):

This ties in somewhat with my second sub-point above. Yes, the ending gave us several choices, but they all felt (a) strangely divorced from the game's general narrative, and ( there was little to distinguish each from the other, at least in terms of post-game exposition.

a) Choices in the ending were disconnected from the rest of the narrative. The entire game was focused on collecting war assets for a final, climactic battle, and yet we saw practically none of the consequences of that. Instead, Shepard was simply presented with three choices, and these--rather than the choices we made throughout the game--were the driving forces in terms of what we saw at the end of the game. In other words, Bioware did exactly what Casey Hudson and other devs had promised they wouldn't: they gave us a hackneyed "door one, two or three"-type of ending rather than something that felt tied to our individual Shepard's story.

The endings were largely indisinguishable in-game. Doing little more than putting a different color filter on the same series of cinematics for each of the choices felt like a slap in the face. In each scenario, essentially the same thing happens, at least as it is presented to us as viewers: the reapers stop attacking, the mass relays are destroyed, and the Normandy crash-lands on an uncharted world. There is no other word for this than lazy, and it should be self-evident why people felt betrayed given their investment in the game-playing experience. Why go through the game again to see essentially the same cinematic? We were promised that, unlike in ME2, the story would diverge significantly at the end since there was no need to plan for a sequel. What happened to that notion?

3. Narrative incoherence
If you are being charitable, you can call this overly vague storytelling, but it's probably more accurate to characterize it as an overabundance of blatant plot holes. What happens to your squadmates who apparently got hit by Harbinger's laser, and why are they often on the Normandy at the end? How did Harbinger not notice that he didn't kill you, given that he is right in front of you, not to mention your history together? Why was the Normandy travelling through a relay? Why wouldn't the destruction of the relays have the same effect that they did in Arrival, thereby destroying the home systems of every major race in the galaxy? Why would synthetics and organics be destined to destroy each other, especially given that a large portion of the game is devoted to--often sucessfully--getting the geth and quarians to work together with the help of Legion? And if so, why would it make sense for synthetics to kill everyone to prevent... everyone getting killed by synthetics?

If you are going to have a plot-driven resolution rather than focusing on the fate of the characters and races you interacted with over the course of the three games, wouldn't it make sense to attempt to answer some of these questions? I keep seeing devs reference ambiguity and "bittersweet" endings, but those attributes aren't virtues in and of themselves. They should be in service of something rather than being an excuse to leave plot threads hanging. This is how the ending felt--like it was slapped together at the last minute with vague exposition rather than thought through in advance.

What I want/final thoughts:
I'm honestly not sure at this point. It feels like the damage has already been done, and I don't know if a patch would feel like the "real" ending to ME3 or something that was just as ad hoc and thrown-together as the "real" ending was. I just feel disappointed and conflicted at this point. It doesn't negate the good times I've had with this trilogy over the years, but it certainly makes me cast a more critical eye when I look backwards at the series.

Anyway, in case it isn't obvious, we are all talking about this because we love Bioware and the ME series. The vast majority of us post in all these critical threads because we care about the game, not because we want to tear it down. Recognize that many of us understand that it must be tough to have all your hard work overshadowed by a controversy about a relatively small part of the game, percentage-wise.

But I would like those at Bioware to understand that it feels somewhat similar to us as players (although no doubt on a smaller scale). Many of us invested completely inordinate amounts of time on different playthroughs of previous games (and had fun doing so!) with the expectation that all of these decisions had an endpoint, and that we could do the same thing with ME3--playing out different scenarios, seeing the different possibilities for various endings, etc. Now if feels to me, and probably many others, that much of that investment was wasted. Why spend so much time playing another Shepard if the ending is going to be largely the same?

Anyway, thanks for paying attention and letting us vent--it really is appreciated. Now if you'll excuse me, it's Saturday night and also St. Paddy's Day, so I'm going to go get plastered like Femshep on the Citadel in ME2. Have a good weekend everyone!

[Logiwonk]

 1) I really enjoyed the bulk of the gameplay and storyline.  Mordin's sacrifice, making peace between the Geth and Quarians, etc.  I thought Kaidan was a bit whiny for a spectre (spent a lot of time pulling a Hamlet routine with "I'm not sure if Shep's with Cereberus or not.").

2) The ending was problematic for me for all the reasons mentioned in this post:
http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

But to boil it down
A) Mass Effect has always been about choices and the ending didn't feel like a choice
I needed closure with my crew and none was provided
C) Ending sparked many more questions than it should have and did not provide a sense of resolution
D) The destruction of the Mass Relays was extremely problematic for the story for a number of reasons ranging from "I just united this Galaxy and now it's divided again" to "Any survivors of the fleet I brought are going to starve because there isn't enough food to go around on Earth" to "Why did Joker and the Crew run for it before I destroyed the relays...WTF?"

Mass Effect has become a seminal story of our generation, the way the Star Wars was and continues to be.  How would you have felt if in "The Return of the Jedi" Luke Skywalker died, the ability to travel faster than light was destroyed, and you didn't find out if Han and Leia got together?

Storys are important to people, they form a context for our lives and a framework for the values we carry into the world.  We've been touched by Mass Effect and so we are going to carry the values we learned from it into the world.

And we will HOLD THE LINE!

Modifié par Logiwonk, 18 mars 2012 - 02:38 .

[Big Push]

mattp516 wrote...

Not too fond of the "Destroy is the only good option" thing with the indoc theory - Destroy is unarguably the Renegade option if it includes destroying the geth, EDI, all advanced tech, ect. The idea that players should've "seen" the indoc thing coming and picked the destroy option despite the fact that it's kind of genocidal is ridiculous. With the endings as they are, Synthesis and Control are better (from a paragon POV) - but still.... the shep breathing scene doesn't make sense... neither does the jungle planet.

Just make the ending logically consistent and consistent with the themes of the series as a whole. Then I (for one) will be happy.

Yeah, the destory ending doesn't sit right with me either, and I definitely agree with what you've said here. A paragon Shepard can spend the entire game brokering peace and bringing people together, but after a super quick chat with Casper the Genocidal Ghost he decides to wipe out all synthetics just because.

[Hudathan]

crimzontearz wrote...

Hudathan wrote...For the folks at Bioware, the one thing I personally wish you guys NEVER do is tell us the ultimate consequences of decisions such as curing/sabotaging the Genophage. To me, the spirit of Mass Effect has always been to make a human decision regarding issues of galactic proportions without the convenience of foresight. Shepard must alter the future of entire races based on his/her personal knowledge and experiences regarding the matter, and then making a decision that will hopefully give the galaxy a better tomorrow. The fact that I cured the Genophage while my friend sabotaged it for the exactly same ultimate goal is what makes this game so interesting, and forcing the writers to come up with a 'true' outcome would simply destroy the tone of the entire dilemma.Give us more content, show us the meaning behind the cliffhanger ending, but do not place objective values on decisions that are powerful precisely because their consequences are difficult to fathom.

welcome to the 2%

No outcome means no accountability

I can't even tell if that's supposed to be good or bad, but that's not the point.

I would like to add one more thing. Even though Mass Effect offers the player wildly different ways to resolve some of its biggest plot threads, the one consistent thing has always been that Shepard is a heroic figure with the galaxy's best interests in mind. Again, the fact that I ended the Genophage while my friend sabotaged it is very interesting precisely because we were both trying to do the 'right' thing but with different contexts and different arguments. That has always been the spirit of the entire Mass Effect series and made it far more interesting than a good guy/bad guy RPG mechanic.

What makes decisions so difficult in the series is the fact that no matter what happens, Shepard will not live on to see the ultimate consequences of his/her most important, far-reaching choices. That's why it's so hard for any player to remain 100% Paragon or Renegade throughout the series, because the game does not assign objective truths to complicated issues. If the writers put in the ultimate consequences for all of Shepard's decisions, it takes the players completely out of Shepard's shoes and forces the writers' philosophies onto the rest of us. A debate regarding the Genophage can no longer be possible by that point, and the game is no longer complex and thought provoking but more about performing X for a 'happy' story and Y for a 'sad' story.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

Speaking of things we liked.
I loved the darkness sections! They were really well done, especially on Tuchanka and the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery. The Ardat-Yakshi Monastery was actually scary! So yeah, it would be great to see more horror elements in the future. But of course, the main issue that needs to be addressed is still the endings.

[Teireles]

Working within the current ME3 perameters (i.e. crucible exist, ect...)

       The ending could be fixed by having a fight on the citadel with the Illusive man leading the Reaper forces with Harbinger controling him and forcing a confrintation (Shepard makes it to the Citadel unscathed but perhaps loses a squadmate dependent upon war assets).

      Then make it so that the crucible targets Reaper IFF's and uses the Citadel arms as conduits in order to essentially 'stun' the Reapers and drop their sheilds.

      This then poses a few interesting element to be built upon.  Firstly the Normandy uses a Reaper IFF and so could be trapped in a decaying orbit in need of rescuing and like the survival of your squad/forces on earth depends upon your war assets.  Also have the Crucible only target Reaper ships in the Sol system meaning that whilst the bulk of the Reaper forces are destroyed and the Sol system is now a secure location remnant Reaper forces still exist elsewhere.

      Now tie in the war assets to essential state how many systems can be saved depending upon whether the crucible is destroyed or can have continued use (same with surviving fleet).

      Then after the battle and rescue attempts have a war council during which Shepard and others decide how best to counteract the Reaper Remnants in a traditional and winnable war thus ending the game off with the war won and the remaining lingering question being how many more can we save?  Rather than wiping the Reapers out in a single blow.

      Thus effectively making the Battle of Earth into a D-Day type senario rather than Berlin Wall moment.

      This would enable continued playability, grant closure, and leave the players to look forward to a more complete epilouge based a few years later after the battle of earth at the start of a new story within the ME universe.

[Numdenu]

http://social.biowar...ndex/10133310/1

This is a poll that gives some clear and consise numbers on what exactly the fans want to see. Take the poll, pass it around, sorry if it's already been posted, but here you are.

[Aganerral]

Probably repeating a lot of things already said in this thread, but just to chip in my $.02:

1) Adjust the war assets available in single player. There's been a lot of discussion in a few threads, and no one seems to be able to get to the 4000 Effective Military Strength level with single player only (which is the lowest amount needed to see the 'deep breath' ending clip). The problem is that with a default galactic readiness of 50%, there does not appear to be enough assets in game to get to 8000 total/4000 effective. Thus someone HAS to play MP or use the other apps to get to that level. Some people have gone through the data files and totaled up the assets and can't find 8000.

2) Speaking of the other apps, android versions please. Not everyone has iOS.

3) In regards to the endings, just more closure. There doesn't have to be a shepard lives option (though that would be nice) but I would like to know what happened to my crew and other characters I came to know and the outcome of the war. And if the Indoctrination Theory is accurate, I'd still ike to know what the outcome of hte war was after shepard got indoctrinated.

[Sainta117]

Hey Bioware,

I don't know what everyone else wants, but for me the key to a good ending is coherence and closure. To that end:

1) I don't need Shepard to live. Although some part of me wants that (yay, little blue babies!), I recognize that sacrifice is an important theme in both the series and the game (Sniff. I miss you, Ash). So many have been lost, and Shepard may be among them, but I understand that the ultimate sacrifice may be necessary. Shepard wouldn't hesitate, so I'll try not to be upset if he/she has to take the final plunge.

2) I want, nay, *need* to know what happened to all my squaddies and friends. Dead in the fight, alive and well, I just need to know. I would even have been somewhat more okay with the ending if I'd seen *everyone* instead of just joker and my two most commonly used squadmates bail out of the SR-2 at the end.

3) I'd like to know, at least in a general sense, what happened to all the races and factions that I brought together. Can they get home? Are they trapped forever? How bad were the casualties? Are the Geth and Quarians really going to get along? Without this I'm left completely in the dark regarding all the people I'm responsible for, and that sucks.

4) I want the themes to make sense, and not to be left going "Who? What?" at the end. A technological singularity is a thoroughly underdeveloped theme in the series, especially when we've potentially just seen some genuinely heartwarming examples of why synthetics do not have to be the enemies of organics. Also, tell us what the hell the dark matter thing was about, as you foreshadowed the hell out of that and then never delivered. If we must have transparent hoodie kid (possibly the worst plot device of all time), at least allow us to give him the finger and take our chances with the fleet battle. From what I can see, it's going pretty well out there.

5) I want my dialog choices to reflect the options for Shepard's character that have been available since day one. Shepard never gave up, and rarely if ever allowed himself to be forced into accepting the dictates of arbitrary authority. To have him meekly accept hoodie-kid's nonchoices is just absurd. He'd be better off doing nothing, or trying to hold hoodie kid himself hostage ("I'll blow up the citadel with both of us on it if you don't call off your death-lobsters!").

6) I want the ending to show me that the sacrifices of so many lives, so many friends, and even my beloved character (assuming Shepard dies) is worth something in the end. What is achieved? Is it worth it? Currently, there's no way to know. A broken, tearful, bleak triumph is still a triumph, but right now we have... nothing. No closure = no ending.

7) Finally, I want to know that all of the choices I made with Shepard along the way meant something, brought us to this time and place in a unique way that wouldn't be possible without having made the hard calls and sacrifies along the way. The game as a whole does a great job of this, but the ending falls down on the last lap. I don't need to know what happens to every baby bird, but let me know that my choices helped to shape this galaxy, for better or for worse. Even fricking text blocks a la BG2 would be acceptable.

I'd like to conclude by saying that the reason I (and, I believe, so many other people) am upset is that these games are just so great, my emotional investment so high, that I'm sincerely hurt as a result of the unfulfilling ending. I want to like Bioware again. I want to love Bioware again. I 've been playing your games since Baldur's Gate and PS:T. I was one of the large minority who really liked DA2 despite it's flaws. I've been thinking about playing TOR - but right now I'm feeling betrayed and marginalized from a studio that has always delivered an RPG experience available nowhere else. Until you fix this, I just can't bring myself to play your games. And that *really* hurts.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Thanks,

A (very) longtime fan

Modifié par Sainta117, 18 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[jamminjamin]

In case this isn't a "tell us how you feel" PR tactic and you genuinely are looking for feedback:

Would prefer to uproot everything starting from the last charge.

1 What did my War Assets and Allies "do" during the final battle?
2 Harbinger was a threat via ME2. Now he's silent and pointless
3 Would prefer a villain and not a God Entity that says "We" then "I" every other sentence.
4 Closure to my relationships
5 Fill in the gaping plot holes and stop referring to them as "artistic". Speculating about an unfinished story is over-done. (I thought my game was glitched when J and my squad were suddenly on the run... like I missed 10 minutes of epilogue...)

The way the story is told and the emotional impact of the ending wasn't the problem. It was the rules you set early on in ME1 and ME2 then broke them the last 5 minutes. The heart of the matter is thousands upon thousands of us felt "cheated".

Modifié par jamminjamin, 18 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[amslilac]

Double post...apologies...but...if you REALLY want to know how to end ME3? Take a look at the best fan fiction in the ME 'verse

http://www.fanfictio...t_of_Redemption

[Butane9000]

@ The ole Ultra Violence
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a bunch of reapers suicide rushing the sun would have detrimental impacts on it. Presumably this could cause it to Supernova or collapse due to all the Element Zero in their drive cores.

Modifié par Butane9000, 18 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[wook77]

I've already posted similar but I'll repeat myself. I'm coming at this from a customer perspective rather than a fan's perspective.

In the end, the game I bought does not have an end. I am left in the middle of a scene with a "buy our DLC coming soon!" message sitting shortly thereafter. If I bought a book and it didn't have an end, merely a page that said "buy the ending soon!", I would chuck it against a wall before taking it back to the store. If I went to a movie and it clipped the last, pivotal moments to a scene then said "pay for the ending, coming soon!", I would march into the lobby and demand a refund. I cannot do that with a video game.

The cynical person in me thinks that you have an ending already in the works and that you should probably hurry up and publish it out to everyone that currently has an online pass (thus proving that we bought the game new).

I'm not even asking for a complete afterwards. If you want to keep the Normandy crashed somewhere else (though why you would, I don't know), I'd be fine with buying downloadable content that continued the mission and got them all back together. That leaked rescue idea sounded fun. If I had had a conclusion to the story you were telling, I would've bought that.

But you need to give me some sort of resolution. After Shepard wakes, is his crew there? Does he run towards Harbinger? That's for you to decide because it is your story.

As far as extra content I would like to see, as a fan - more interaction with my LI. I'd love to see Kaidan's butt. I'd love for the LGBT romance scene to be as long and intimate as the heterosexual one. I'd like to invite Kaidan up for a night. I'd like laughter between them, not just the stress and worry. I'd like Kaidan to shake the everlasting heck out of Shepard for going up against the Reaper by himself.

And, finally, the other thing I would like to see change in relation to Mass Effect as a whole is better decisionmaking by your public faces. When your @masseffect twitter account writes a happy response to someone calling the upset customers the c-word, I've got an issue with your PR. When your @masseffect twitter account responds with [my interpretation] sarcastic hugs to upset customers, I've got an issue with your PR. When your writers, producers, combat directors, whatever, are linking to articles that have the word "idiot" applying directly to your dissatisfied customers in the link url, I've got an issue with your PR. That is where you lose me as a customer - when you treat me and those that share a similar problem as mine with such disdain, whether that disdain was actually meant or not. I don't think it was ever meant to be disdainful – I think your Twitter account is being overrun and I think the combat director and such were merely trying to show another "side" but, instead, it failed because of the language used in the attached communication.

I've not liked game endings before but I never once felt ripped off by them. Personal opinion but Lost Odyssey ended poorly. Did I take to letting the company know I didn't like the game? Nope. I simply didn't play it again. I thought Darksiders was poorly crafted in the fighting mechanics and thought the ending left something to be desired but did I take to letting the company know I didn't like the game? Nope, I simply didn't play it again. As for Darksiders, I even plan on buying the second game in the series because they've promised that they fixed the game mechanics.

I like Mass Effect. No, correct that, I love Mass Effect. I cannot play shooters so, for me, it was a complete struggle to get through these games but I did so because I love the story and the characters. I love the world and want to explore it more. I would pay good money (and, up until recently, I worked 70-80 hours a week so money has always been tight for me) for additional content like more lovestory stories and more battles and more about the Asari and the Salarians and the Krogan and the Geth and everyone. But what I do not want to pay for is the ending that should've been included in the original content. That is the source of my discontent with your company, especially in light of this video: Coupled with that video of your CEO going on about how to milk more money out of players to increase sales and profit and the fact that you didn't include an actual ending, just part of it, and that is where my dissatisfaction comes from. That's my suggested change – get us an actual ending, whatever you envision the ending being. I don't want you to tell me an individually-crafted-just-for-me story – I get that you're the writers of this story but finish the story in a way that meets what you promised in all those interviews before release.