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ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed


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#2451
Reign Tsumiraki

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DungeonHoek wrote...

Amdnro wrote...

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 Ah, perfect! I already wrote up what I think would solve the problem...

*copypasta*

1.  Only change the ending starting from the last scene with Anderson/Shepard/TIM. Everything about the ending before that stays the same, with a few changes. 

2. Completely ignore the God-child-spirit. It conflicts and contradicts the "Protheans fooled the citadel" basis in ME1. This was important. Cut it out entirely.

3. Make several choices based off of war readiness, and how many assets went into the Crucible. Such as:

Very low: Launch a giant EMP burst that destroys all Reapers, AI, Citadel, Relays, most technology, ect, as well as sacrificing earth. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, and everyone aboard dies.

Low: Same, but without damage to earth. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes. Crew dies.

Medium-low: Burst that only destroys all AI. Shepard dies. Normandy Crashes, Crew dies.

Medium: Burst that destroys all AI in the Sol system, and the Reapers. This allows the Geth to live, but EDI dies. Saves the Relays, but not the citadel. Shepard dies. Normandy crashes, crew survives.

High-Medium: Releases a burst that disables the Reaper Shields across the galaxy, allowing the fleet to easily kill the rest(Reapers are weak without their shields, as ME1 shows. A single torpedo from the Normandy killed Sovereign without it's shields) Shepard lives. Normandy damaged, but does not crash, and the player is treated to a small cutscene of the Normandy and the fleet blowing up a few reapers. 

High: Sends out a burst attuned to the Reaper core (The Geth provide the information. They studied reapers, remember. If they are not available, the Quarians provide it, having researched the Reaper corpse on their planet) causing the Reapers' reactors to overload and die. However, the Reaper core just happens to be identical to the Core of the Citadel as well. The Citadel overloads and blows up. Shepard lives. Relays stay intact. Player is treated to a cutscene of the Reapers blowing up, troops on the ground rejoicing, as well as the Normandy picking him and Anderson's body up before Citadel explodes.


Very-high: Sends out a pulse that kills only Reapers. All tech stays intact. Shepard lives. Relays intact. Citadel intact. Player is treated to the cutscene above, minus the citadel explosion. 

In addition, the endings shown in the "original" game would be available. These would be available on the left side of the dialogue wheel, while the ones I have proposed would be on the right. Synthesis would be unlocked at the Very-High level, and Control would be unlocked at the High-Medium level. Destroy would be available no matter what.

To complete the Synthesis, Destroy, or Control ending, the player takes the elevator up to where the Original ending takes place. This way, they do not have to design an entirely new environment. The animations and flashbacks for these endings would stay the same. The only difference in the cutscene after this would be no Normandy crash.

The options of the three highest unlocked options would show up on the right of the wheel on the right side. For instance, someone who had Medium assets would get the option of killing all AI everywhere, all AI in the Sol system, or all technology everywhere without damage to earth.

The dialogue wheel would look like this, if someone had 100% of all assets.
                                Synthesis              Take down Sheilds
                                                __________/ 
                                               (                       )
                 Destroy    --------(                          ) ---Kill reapers, Destroy Citadel
                                               (                       )
                                                -----------------
                                               /                      
                                      Control                Kill all Reapers
4. Include a small, text and scene ending. Small clips of certain occations from the various decisions made will show. This will vary by ending.

EXAMPLE: Geth and Quarians rebuilding, all species rebuilding the invaded home planets, ect.

5. A small scene with Anderson and Shepard before Anderson dies, about what Shepard will do if the Crucible works. Shepard can then respond in a variety of ways depending on what options he is presented with because of the war assets claimed. Anderson then says the whole "I'm proud of you" spiel, wishes you luck, then dies.

EXAMPLE: 

Retiring and living in peace, finally, with LI(or alone, if that is the case).

Saying “This device will probably destroy the citadel and kill us, so it does not matter.”

Continue to pursue peace and justice as a Spectre.

Become a diplomat/politician and guide humanity

Ect.

6. Any teammates that were with you at the time you got shot by the reaper will run towards the teleport-beam and make it to the Citadel ahead of you, thinking that you died, and that they need to finish what you started. Upon arriving there, you meet up with them and get to the console. They also get manipulated by TIM, but only you are able to "break free" by shooting or talking down TIM. 



Anyway, that's my whole view on it. 


THIS WAY:  
Players can get the endings they want, the player can still sacrifice themselves to get the endings they want, the Devs can have the endings they want, and originally intended. The only thing this really cuts is the stupid spectral Ghost-child-God thing, which was ridiculous in the first place. 

How does this sound? I tried to address every concern and viewpoint, and combine them into one good ending that I think would please everyone. 


And combined with this flow chart, the game's 'destination' is as flawless as the 'journey'

B)


That flow chart is quite good. Takes choices and consequences into account, and utterly bones you if you aren't careful. I like it.


Indeed. I hate to toot my own horn (Oh, who am I kidding, I love to) but if we combined those two, we'd have a very nice piece of work. That flowchart is quite nice. 

As long as I get an ending where the relays are intact, and Shepard and his/her LI is alive, I'm a happy camper.

#2452
Reidbynature

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Honestly I love Mass Effect and ME3 was until the last five or ten minutes a great game. There was so much improvement. Levels didn't feel like shiny corridors (although they were still clearly linear, they were more fun), it had great writing and character moments (again, until the end).

I'm not sure how open you may be to input on what we want or expected out of the ending, but I'll give my thoughts on it. I'll try to keep it as brief as I can.

I don't think the Starchild would have been accepted even if we had the option to discuss things with him in depth. I think his sudden introduction was inherently flawed and his explanation (what there was of it) was similarly inherently flawed, which contributed to the wtf moment the player felt when confronted with this 'solution' with no real way to question or act against it and we were rail-roaded into the game's ending that varied only slightly superficially.

I feel like many a little cheated that the ending through which the various ramifications could potentially be wide ranging are all rendered moot with the destruction of the Mass Relays. It is also more peculiar considering that up until that point all the information we have on the possible destruction of a Mass Relay is that it's incredibly destructive and capable of wiping out entire solar systems and the ending does little if anything to dispel that established fact, meaning that aside from Joker and the rest of the Normandy, the rest of the allied forces and others species aren't just stuck in a solar system likely incapable of supporting them, they're all dead because Shepard wiped out all life in the galaxy.

As for what would I replace it with? I don't know.  I think there may be a case of 'what has been seen can't be unseen', not to mention that you don't actually want to deprive those people who paid for the game and enjoyed those endings their own joy (and I don't think many others in the Retake movement would either). We're still a community and we should respect one another. Though I did see a nice flow chart of a potential 'what if' that demonstrated ideally how our Shepard's decisions should matter in the EA/Bioware PR thread (which I hope they posted here as well).

Frankly I agree with a lot of people in that the choices made in not just this last game, but the trilogy itself should have a real outcome on the ending. Basically if there's a way to retroactively allow for more choices and outcomes without devaluing the ending already there (because again, some people do enjoy them), then I'd be all for it. Aside from that I'm not willing to direct Bioware as to what they should write because while we may be disenfranchised due to the ending I respect that we can't write the game, we just want something that reflects the overall arc of the trilogy's story in tone and substance.

Although saying that maybe just a couple of suggestions or wants for the odd outcome. I get that ME3 was in a big part about 'sacrifice' and I respect that. Moments like, I believe, do elevate ME3 into art (though ME is still many things one package I might hasten to add), but I do think that with enough effort on the player's part Shepard should have been cut a break. If he/she has to die then fine (though there does seem to be one possible ending already with Shepard alive), but would it be so wrong for some Shepard's to go home with their LI? Also an ending where I could see the Geth and Edi survive whilst destroying the Reapers wouldn't be a bad idea (Edi really came into her own in this game, some of the best writing in the trilogy there).

One last thing (promise). I saw the question floating around "would a final boss have made it any better?". Now while I believe that truly 'no' is the answer, a last boss would have been more satisfying in itself, but it wouldn't have had a great impact on how I felt about the ending. If we as Shepard fought TIM or whatever with Anderson by our side, that would have been awesome in itself (though I did see a minute or two of Anderson's death was cut on youtube, I would implore you to add it back please), though I don't believe any last boss would have made too much difference.

Besides, we'll always have Marauder Sheilds.



Sorry if that was a tad long. Tried to keep it brief and not too much in a list of 'I want, I want' which is probably what should refrain from and just focus on what could have been better. I believe that's all I need to say and I hope someone reads and appreciates it. Thanks.

Modifié par Reidbynature, 18 mars 2012 - 02:56 .


#2453
General User

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I can't emphasize enough how important it is that y'all at Bioware read:

ARCIAN'S FIXED ENDING
http://social.biowar...index/9928376/1

It truly is the ending Mass Effect fans want and deserve.

Modifié par General User, 18 mars 2012 - 02:50 .


#2454
aliengmr1

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I think restructuring the final mission to something similar to ME2 would be great. It would allow for a single or dual ending and the use of the entire squad. The quality of the end depends on the preparations you made and the choices during the mission. Add to that the effect of major, past decisions and in theory you can have a single ending where choices , past and present, play a major role.

Also I believe the LI people deserve a series of non-interactive endings with dialog. This assumes the LI and Shep survive. By retirement or death, the Shepard story ends.

#2455
Cyansomnia

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Something else I wanted to express about Mass Effect 3:

It's enough we all have to deal with tragedy in our daily lives. Why is it so bad to have a story that makes us feel good at the end, where we triumph against the odds? Most excellent stories I've read/watched/experienced usually have that outcome.

I think sometimes people get so wound up in making something 'artsy', 'impactful', 'shocking' or 'emotionally charged' that they forget they are telling a story for the sake of entertainment.

A good story doesn't have to be overly tragic, vague or punishing to the viewer. It just has to be told well. Leaving us feeling robbed, depressed and angry is not going to endear people to wanting to experience more of your content.

#2456
ECS0504

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I would love to have an ending to the game that let me look back on my Mass Effect playing experience with pleasure and not bitterness.

#2457
eddieoctane

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Please do something with the Citadel Defense Force war asset. It's a substantial number in the game, and numerous side-missions are tied to increasing this score. At the very least, a short cut-scene of the CDF helping some escape the Citadel as Cerberus turns it over to the Reapers (or whatever happened) and the people we know still aboard the Citadel making a break for it or helping out. I can imagine Zaeed, Bailey, and Kolyat standing shoulder to shoulder fighting against Reaper forces while a few civilian shuttles make it off the station. If nearly everyone who was on the Citadel dies, so be it. But the obliteration of all life in the one location common to all 3 games deserves more than a twitter remark.

#2458
The_Other_M

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BobbyTheI wrote...

I said it in the last thread, I'll say it again.

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

Print it out. Put it on a wall in a conference room somewhere. Sit the writers and development team down and ask them, "How can we address each of these issues?"


^^THIS definitely
It practically summurizes EVERYONE'S main greivances with the ending(s).

#2459
Handren

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Basically what everyone else said. Endings quality based on our war assets.

Seeing our WA in action.

If possible, a final boss. ME1 and ME2 had one.

Harbinger to speak, especially since he loved the sound of his own voice in ME2, its weird for him not to have a single line in ME3. You guys even got his VA back for arrival DLC.

One happy ending, if you've been maxing everything and have over 6000 EMS. At leas,t full paragon and full renegades should have endings where they live.

An ending where the reapers win, if your EMS is absolutely abysmal.

Indoc theory would be cool to see.

#2460
DarthSyphilis59

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wagsnout wrote...


Dude this is ****ing brilliant!!!!! Please put this in text and post it everywhere!!!!:o

#2461
SupremeLegate

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Suggestions for Changes:


Shepard should have to be convinced to believe/listen to what the Catalyst is telling him/her, an in depth explanation as to what the Catalyst is and why it created the Reapers.

There should be an option for Shepard to be able to convince the Catalyst to leave willingly, maybe tied into your reputation. (As far as I know it currently only affects if you get Paragon/Renegade dialog options)

Actually getting to see some of the War Assets you acquired throughout the game in action at the end.

Consequences of staying faithful/cheating on your LI from the previous two games. (How can I tell both Ashely and Miranda I want to be with both of them, unless that's actually an option this time ;) )

The possibility for Shepard to survive, would require a very high Galactic Readiness level.

Seeing the races your recruited working together to rebuild or beginning to turn on each other once again. (This could depend on how you 'convinced' them to join you)

Don't destroy the Mass Relays or at least show how they could blowup with out destroying the system they are in, see 'The Arrival.'

Some kind of visual queue that shows there is a barrier where Shepard is when he/she talks to the Catalyst so that it does not look like he/she is standing in open space.

Remove the part where Joker and crew run away. (They all tell you that they are with you until the bitter end)

An explanation as to how/why the addition of the Crucible to the Citadel changes the Catalyst. (If the Catalyst is simply an AI perhaps it can't change from its programming and the addition of Shepard, an Organic with
freewill, can allow it to make a Choice)


That's all I can think of for right now. I focused on the ending since that is where everything goes sideways.

Modifié par SupremeLegate, 18 mars 2012 - 03:13 .


#2462
jeweledleah

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Big Push wrote...

mattp516 wrote...

Not too fond of the "Destroy is the only good option" thing with the indoc theory - Destroy is unarguably the Renegade option if it includes destroying the geth, EDI, all advanced tech, ect. The idea that players should've "seen" the indoc thing coming and picked the destroy option despite the fact that it's kind of genocidal is ridiculous. With the endings as they are, Synthesis and Control are better (from a paragon POV) - but still.... the shep breathing scene doesn't make sense... neither does the jungle planet.

Just make the ending logically consistent and consistent with the themes of the series as a whole. Then I (for one) will be happy.


Yeah, the destory ending doesn't sit right with me either, and I definitely agree with what you've said here. A paragon Shepard can spend the entire game brokering peace and bringing people together, but after a super quick chat with Casper the Genocidal Ghost he decides to wipe out all synthetics just because.


it seems to me that starchild lied about EDI/Geth destruction.  after all - he had to make that particular ending as unappealing as possible.  the fact that its symbolized by Anderson - a paragon character, should raise an eyebrow IMO.  and if its Shepard hallucinating the people closest to him/her escaping the explosion of the relays to land on some garden planet, it makes sence that those hallucinations fall in line with "suggestions" of a star child.

to be honest, to me the other 2 options seemed too much like giving in and giving up.  admiting that Saren and/or TIM were right. and concidering that those choices hinge on starchild's faulty reasoning about inability of organics and synthetics to coexist peacefuly (even Geth didn't attack quarians first, not only that - there were quarians who protected them and there were geth who sacrificed themselves to protect the their quarian masters - the war was NOT cut and dry)

its one of the issues with the ending.  it doesn't take this into account.  even if starchild sequence remains, at the very least, Shepard needs an option to bring up EDI and Geth.

#2463
jeweledleah

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Aislinn Trista wrote...

Something else I wanted to express about Mass Effect 3:

It's enough we all have to deal with tragedy in our daily lives. Why is it so bad to have a story that makes us feel good at the end, where we triumph against the odds? Most excellent stories I've read/watched/experienced usually have that outcome.

I think sometimes people get so wound up in making something 'artsy', 'impactful', 'shocking' or 'emotionally charged' that they forget they are telling a story for the sake of entertainment.

A good story doesn't have to be overly tragic, vague or punishing to the viewer. It just has to be told well. Leaving us feeling robbed, depressed and angry is not going to endear people to wanting to experience more of your content.


quoted for truth.

@ Handren - it is currently impossible to get even 4000 EMS without multiplayer unless you metagame a mix of paragon/renegade decisions through out all 3 games and own all the availabel DLC's ther are just not enough assets in a game and with readiness score being 50% without multiplayer or outside aps (which I personaly have no acess to, not being in posession of iphone or ipad, or even android) - its currently easier to get the best ending while making terrible decisions and skipping content in SP, if only you play some multiplayer here and ther.  this NEEDS to be adressed and fixed. (and it would be one of the easier issues to patch if I understand coding correctly)

#2464
Icycle1933

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Here's a copy of the email I sent to BioWare, based what the #RetakeMassEffect Facebook page wanted. I would've sent a physical letter if I had known about March 17 earlier.

Dear Sirs:

I am writing to express my disappointment in the possible sending to the incredible game that is Mass Effect 3. For years, gamers all over the world have been invested in the series from Corporal Jenkins all the way up to our very own Shepard characters.

I remember director Casey Hudson said something along the lines of "It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you an say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." This is the complete opposite of what is actually in the game. The ending only has three choices and what we choose results only in whether the mass relay explosions are green, blue, or red.

I please implore you to listen to the Mass Effect community at large and change the game's endings to give players more closure. Please do not let the last, roughly, fifteen minutes of Mass Effect 3 ruin hundreds of hours of an incredibly deep and engaging experience.

Thank you for your time.

[name]

#RetakeMassEffect



#2465
CirusTheVirus666

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Bioware, please listen to the fan base of Mass Effect about changing the endings. It may be your characters, your universe, your story, your intellectual property, but it is our journey, our Shepard. We need a closure and a good one, we need that joyous feeling of accomplishment of saving the day. We love your characters and they deserve better! Listen to your fans, listen to our one voice! Please!

#2466
Arik7

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1.  I would like to see DIFFERENT endings, not different explosion colors.  The endings should range from total Reaper victory and destruction of all advanced organic life to a heroic victory for the Council races with Shepard surviving.  In case of victory, the fate of every major civilization and character should be explained.

2.  Your military assets should actually affect MILITARY OUTCOMES of WAR, not star child's options and not effects of an explosion.    Show different war fronts, including ground battles and space combat.   Show your allies' armies and fleets fighting/succeeding/failing/dying depending on your choices

3.  The star child and star gazer ideas are just silly and inappropriate for an M-rated game.  Just remove them completely please.  Let Harbinger speak for the Reapers instead.

Modifié par Arik7, 18 mars 2012 - 03:16 .


#2467
Thoros_of_Myr

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"Let me first preface by saying I am a huge proponent of the Mass Effect series. I picked up the first Mass Effect game in 2007 and, since the first time I played it, I was enamored. I am currently in the process of collecting all comic books, novels, games, and any other expansions of the series' lore. Logging 400+ hours across all three games in the main trilogy, I can safely say that the Mass Effect series is my favorite video game series of all time. That is why I am writing to you; not because I am angry, but because as a huge fan of the series, the ending to Mass Effect 3 is the ultimate letdown of everything you, the developer, has promised over the past five years.

Mass Effect 3
, with exception to the ending, is the defining game in the series. All of the choices fans have made over the years have come to resolution. The player can continue to pursue his/her emotional connection to the squadmates who, over the years, the player has come to know and love. The squadmates themselves are vastly more emotionally engaging than in previous games. Combat is challenging and ultimately rewarding. But, most importantly, the struggles, themes, and philosophical quandaries that the player has come into contact with over the past five years and three games reach an apex. Players are making some of the most difficult choices ever presented in a video game series, let alone the Mass Effect trilogy, and must live with the consequences of their actions. Mass Effect 3, on all fronts, delivered everything Bioware has promised in regards to concluding this fantastic space opera.

This is why the ending is a disappointment. Everything I, one of many fans, has come to love about the series is ultimately pushed to the side and disregarded, in terms of closure, lore, and choice.

There are a number of reasons why the trilogy's end is a letdown. I will try to address them all:

The Catalyst We, the player, are presented with the creator of the Reapers and their reason for destroying organic life, but the Catalyst never gives the answer. You give the player access to understanding the conflict driving the trilogy, but never expand upon it. If you are going to present to the player the creator of the conflict, you should answer the questions that are arisen by its existence: who created it? Where did it come from? How and why does it justify the Reaper's harvesting? Why does it choose to take the form of the child haunting Shepard's nightmares? His circular logic is, admittedly, confusing for the player to understand: in order to stop synthetic life from killing organic life, it created the Reapers to to kill organic life and turn it into synthetic life. However, across the series, players have been experienced a galaxy that has a fully-developed, understandable story and universe. The Catalyst is meant to answer, “Why?” but just leaves us with more questions.

Lack of Choices Shepard does whatever is necessary to do what he/she believes is right and doesn't take anyone else's logic into account. So when the Catalyst imposes its logic upon Shepard, it is confusing as to why Shepard complies with its logic. Shepard has always been the person to say, "Screw the odds! Screw what you think! We will fight to the end!" Because this is the case, it is extremely disappointing when, given the three options to either destroy the Reapers, control the Reapers, and synthesize organic and synthetic life together, Shepard does not argue or try to find a different option. One of the most important aspects of Mass Effect is not only for the players to make choices, but the theme of free-will and forging one's own destiny. This is what makes the conflict with the Geth so compelling. The player, however, through this ending, is forced to make choices that he/she does not agree with. He/She must either destroy all synthetic life in the galaxy, taking away synthetic's choice, control the Reapers, removing their free-will and destroying their "freedom," or homogenize organic and synthetic life together, without their choice or permission. On another note, why must the mass relays be destroyed? Why would there not be an option to shut down the Reapers and leave the relays alone? There is no closure with any of the choices the player makes and the player is not able to see the consequences of his/her actions.

The “Different” Endings From the very start, Mass Effect 3 was advertised as a game where all of the player's choices would come together to create divergent endings. Hudson was even quoted saying, “This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff.” However, once Shepard makes it to the Catalyst, none of the player's choices thus far matter. The Catalyst does not talk to the player any differently based off of his/her choices throughout the game. When the player makes a “choice” on how to deal with the Reapers, the end result is the same: there is an explosion, the Reapers are stopped and either leave or die, and energy is beamed from mass relay to mass relay, destroying each relay and the Citadel. Nothing the player has done up to this point effects how the end plays out. The only factor that matters is the Effective Military Strength, but if the endings are so very similar, having full EMS or no EMS doesn't matter in the end.

Joker and the Crew Joker was always depicted as the gung-ho pilot. He lead the fleets when Sovereign attacked the Citadel and never tried to stop Shepard from completing a mission because it might be “too dangerous.” On that note, Shepard's squadmates always were ready to fight and die along side him/her. We, the player, have come to regard these characters as friends, some even as lovers, and having their loyalty affected how they interacted with you and their potential survival in Mass Effect 2. Bioware has created a theme of camaraderie and unity. To leave these people we've come to know and love stranded on an unknown planet without any resolution to their relationship with Shepard is an insult to the squadmates. Also, why did Joker pick up the crew and run? It's been established that the crew is ready to die alongside Shepard, so why did they flee the battle? They've been with us since the beginning, they should stay at our side at the end. When the crew does climb out of the Normandy, however, they walk out cheery at their situation. They may have abandoned Earth and left their friend and leader to die, but hey, at least they're alive, right? This would be akin to, in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, when all Fellowship walks out of the Mines of Moria after seeing Gandalf plummet to his death, they stare at the mountain-scape and smile because they survived against the Balrog. A little resolution with the characters and Shepard would be nice.

The Epilogue After everything is said and done, after the player makes his/her “choice” and is forced to watch identical outcomes, and when the credits finally roll, we see the epilogue. After years of playing through the Mass Effect series, the entire series turns out to be a story a grandfather tells his young grandchild about the Shepard who saved the galaxy. This is a confusing moment in and of itself. And, if the wording of the grandfather is correct, there is still one more story to tell. This means the ending was deliberately planned to force us, the players, to purchase DLC that clears up the confusion.

Co-Existence Not Possible The reason the Catalyst created the Reapers is because, according to it, synthetic life will always destroy organic life. The Reapers are meant to stop that event from completely occurring. However, as the player sees on Rannoch and through interactions with Legion, co-existence is not only possible, but doable. Shepard, throughout the series, has defied the odds and done his best to bring species and lifeforms together. But when faced with the Catalyst, Shepard ultimately succumbs to its logic and makes a choice that is ultimately not his own. Earlier in the game, Shepard was able to prove that synthetics and organics can live together. But according to the ending philosophy, this isn't possible.

Plot Holes There are so many plot holes created within the ending, which is surprising when considering how short the ending is. In one of the endings, Shepard is supposedly alive. How did he survive the Citadel explosion? Why is he found in a pile of stone and rubble, when the Citadel is made of metal? During the ending, the mass relays are destroyed no matter the player's choice. It is established in the Arrival DLC that the destruction of a mass relay has enough power to destroy a solar system. This means Shepard destroyed more lives than he saved. Also, now that the relays are destroyed, Shepard's amassed fleet is stuck orbiting Earth. Even with FTL travel, it will take the fleet decades to return home. Earth in prime condition could not house that amount of aliens, especially when some are not capable of eating the food found on Earth. Returning to Joker and the Crew, Joker would have to have pulled the crew out from the rubble near the Conduit after Harbinger blasted everyone with its laser. How did they survive? How did he get to the Charon Relay in time?

Abandoned Themes Mass Effect has established themes of unity with others, tolerance, and free-will. Throughout the series, Shepard has either brought the races together, whether it be in a crew or as a fleet, or choose his/her own race above all others. He/She was able to form a multicultural crew, establish treaties no one thought possible, and bring an entire galaxy together. Shepard went to the Catalyst to preserve the galactic community, but according to the Catalyst, unity is not possible between all forms of life. This is made even worse with the destruction of the mass relays, as all life in the galaxy is now cut-off from one another. All of the treaties and alliances Shepard has made do not matter. The idea of choice and free-will is also heavily explored throughout the series. The Geth have tried to maintain their own destiny without fear of destruction. The player must make choices that affects the entire galaxy, being able to do so because he/she knows it is up to all living organism, synthetic or organic, to make their own decisions and live in a galaxy where they can be free to do as they wish. The player, in the ending, is robbed of all choice or even the ability to argue for freedom. The player is enslaved and must do what he/she is told.

So what can be done from here? What changes can be made to make an ending that works for everyone? Here are a number of possibilities:
  • Explain or remove the Catalyst AI. Either keep the Reapers as mysterious and their motives unknown, or otherwise give the player the option to find out, in a way that makes sense, why the Catalyst believes synthetic and organic life cannot co-exist. Having it between the two makes understanding the game confusing.
  • Change the location of where Shepard goes to in order to make his choice. With the exception of the Indoctrination Theory (read below), the options presented to him, the setting of outside the Citadel, and the Catalyst AI make very little sense.
  • Keep the choices of Destroy, Control, and Synthesize, but add more. Keep these endings, where the mass relays are destroyed, as the “bad endings” and add “good endings” where the relays are not destroyed, Shepard lives or dies, the crew lives or dies, and the galaxy is brought together. The players do not need a completely happy ending]True Paragon/True Renegade endings, where Shepard lives and either shuts down the Reaper shields, allowing for the fleets to destroy them, and Shepard can live in peace with his love interest; or Shepard is able to gain control of the Reapers and uses them to impose a human-controlled galaxy. In both endings, the relays and the Citadel survive. After a game filled with bittersweet moments, it would be nice to see some happy, or dark, resolution in the end, which gives the players catharsis and closure. The availability of these two endings would be based off of the choices made throughout the game and Effective Military Strength.
  • Resolution of all the choices the player has made throughout the game. Show us the consequences of allowing the Rachni to live, the treaty between the Krogan and the Turians, the co-habitation of Rannoch by the Quarian and the Geth, and the immediate outcome of our final choice and fate of the galaxy. The ending should answer all of the questions raised by players throughout the series.
  • The Indoctrination Theory, a fan-proposed theory as to why the plot holes in the ending make sense, holds very sound. This could easily become a “bad ending” and explains why the Catalyst is the way it is, how Shepard survived the destruction of the Citadel, why he doesn't need breathing equipment in space, why he doesn't have any real choice, and why the Illusive Man's option is presented as the paragon choice, while Anderson's is considered the renegade. This ending would occur at under the minimum Effective Military Strength needed.
  • A final conflict between Shepard and a boss, most likely Harbinger. Harbinger is seen as the Reaper leader, which means a final battle between the player and the villain would make sense. The ending of the game really lacks a cathartic final battle, which could lead to Shepard's final talk with the Illusive Man and reaching a console that allows Shepard to choose any of the above endings, depending on the choices he/she has made and the Effective Military Strength.
  • Drew Karpyshyn's original idea for the ending of the game made perfect sense. The allusions to dark energy were very apparent and it was obvious from the mission on Haestrom that the game was going to go towards the direction of solving that conflict. Having to make the choice to either deal with the dark energy problem yourself and destroy the Reapers, or let the Reapers harvest in an attempt to stop the dark energy expansion would have left players with a real choice that would give the fans divergent endings with possible permutations. If the ending were changed towards this direction, Effective Military Strength could factor into the battle itself, but not the choice of how to deal with the Reapers.
If we continue to show Bioware our dissatisfaction with the game's ending, not through anger, but through logic and reasoning, we can eventually reach the outcome that we deserve.

Hold the line, men. End transmission.

Modifié par Thoros_of_Myr, 18 mars 2012 - 05:37 .


#2468
Alexander Kogan

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Bring back Drew Karpyshyn's original plot-point regarding the conflict between the Reapers and Dark Energy. That was ORIGINAL and no where NEAR as over used and cliched as the "created kills creator" tripe and was in fact a more disturbing revelation.

The revelation that the Reapers were trying to "save us" from a potential galactic apocalypse by turning us into reapers to find a way to stop, or at the very least survive, such a disaster and that the over-use of the mass relays was the cause for this.

This also raises the possibility of learning the REAL origin and purpose of the Reapers and the mass relays and their connection to each other.

That Haestrom mission in Mass Effect 2 is quite frankly a glaring hint to this.

PLEASE GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SCRIPT BY KARPYSHYN!

Here's a link to my theory on this and how it could work:
http://social.biowar...9596/1#10161736

Modifié par Alexander Kogan, 18 mars 2012 - 03:52 .


#2469
Cmawty

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Thanks for starting this thread, I hope changes will come from the feedback.

Walking down the well-tread path, the Ending does not work. No matter which of the final options the player chooses, he/she effectively dooms the much-loved universe and crew with the destruction of the mass relay systems. There is no 'winning' Mass Effect 3 in its released form.

It's apparent the core players of this game franchise feel this way. The Mass Effect story is gripping and to have hours of fulfilling gameplay end on such a blank note crushes further interest in the saga.

In the interest of salvaging what has been already developed and released, I suggest using the 'Indoctrination Theory' as a starting point to amend a more consistent ending to the game. Through however circumstance it was developed as such, the Shep/Anderson/TIM & Shep/Spacekid confrontation in the Citadel is a dreamlike scenario. Use it and take the time to create a more suitable ending to the Mass Effect legacy.

Do not have the mass relays destroyed in any scenario. Doing so effectively negates All of what the player has done as Commander Shepard.

Thanks for a great and engaging franchise. Please listen to your devoted playerbase and amend the current ending.

#2470
Waldschatten

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 The problem with the "artistic license" defense is that this is not a book, movie, or even a normal game. I'm willing to accept poorly ended games if they were fun to play. With all the choices we've made, how well the series was crafted, the promises about how our decisions were going to have major effects on the end of the trilogy, Mass Effect has moved beyond "art" and gained a life of its own. There's also the problem of my renegade who seemed to have done as much damage to the galaxy as the reapers and my paragon who had everyone getting along and working together got dumped in to the same three choices. That makes all three games feel worthless, not just ME3. Why have I worked so hard over the course of the trilogy if I could have just coasted by it and got the same ending?

#2471
AJ2324

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Hey in ME 2, was Harbinger speaking out loud to Shepard or was that all in his mind?....

#2472
survivor_686

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I'd accept an ending which fits in line with Shepard's character that was developed in the series. I'd accept the option for the players to utter a defiant or pitying response at the reaper child.

A few scenes that reflect our war assets either succeeding or losing would certainly add more weight to our decisions that have made throughout the entire series.

I would also like to for the endings to avoid introducing new concepts or plot holes. and if possible an explanation of the stargazers.

I can accept my Shepard dying. After all how can one get back to regular work after saving the galaxy.

#2473
KoRnAh

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camcon2100 wrote...

Go with the indoctrination theory. Make it so we face off with Harbinger for real this time. And make the crucible a realistic construct some sort of blast that weakens the Reapers. This allows us to use our EMS to determine how the rest plays out. This would be perfect


This.

Outcome should be decided by EMS and not some ghostly child that was in my head all along, even when i saw him die on earth, i ended up seeing it that way after the ending and thinking about the indoctrination theory.

Shepard has been near reapers long enough to at least have traces of indoctrination. What comes after you fade away before reaching the conduit should start when shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy Ending.

It was all an indoctrination fight in your mind while your squadmates were searching for you after harbinger "hits" the area were you fade out. (indoctrination fight lasted only seconds in real time and you wake up ready to get back in action when your squadmates find you.)

My work here is done.

#2474
lokipwner

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I loved the game. It was amazing. I was let down by the ending however, probably not as much as most everyone else... I guess I just would have preferred the option to have a really happy ending with Shepard living and getting to see his/her LI again.

I loved the romances for those that got a lot of attention (i.e. Garrus, Kaiden, Liara).. though I wouldn't say no to some more content. Considering this is the last we will ever see of these guys, I would have loved more LI scenes and conversations.

I think that the ME2 romances should have had more in ME3. Jack, Miranda, Thane, Jacob, etc, hardly got anything involving their relationship. Thane I believe got the most horrible treatment, right next to Jacob. I can't even bring myself to play my Shepard that romanced Thane because I already know of how horrible that relationship goes.

All in all, great amazing epic game... but I wouldn't mind more LI interactions and scenes, and as I said, the option for a happy ending. I had no problem with the endings, but would have preferred there have been a chance for a great happy ending.

No more Shepard and the rest of her/his squad, please give us more interactions with them. I already miss Garrus and keep playing the game over and over again just so I can see my Shepard and Garrus again.

Oh and one last thing... more romance options for FemShep! Give us Joker and Vega please!! Joker more then Vega. I have been asking for a Joker romance since ME3 was announced. Please don't let the robot get all of that.

#2475
pitdroid

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 I put some thoughts together while I was at work today in between customers, so bear with me as I try to get this down. :)

Paragon Ending: Shephard deals with the Illusive Man and activates the control. The Crucible control prompts him to decide how it will be used. As originally intended, the device will destroy all the mass effect relays and attack with Reapers at the source of their power, destroying them everywhere. However, the Crucible detects they are all in one place and the relays, despite being Reaper tech., do not necessarily need to be destroyed. It asks Shephard if he wants to destroy all the relays, or just the reapers in the system. Joker calls to tell Shephard to hang on, they are coming to get him and to warn him that Harbringer has broken off with a couple of destroyers and is heading for the Citadel/Crucible.

Harbringer projects a hologram into the room to talk to Shephard, much of the conversation is what happened in the original ending with the starchild. Harbringer tells him that organics and synthetics can't get along, it's for the good of the universe, etc. Shephard counters that they can get along, the Quarrians and Geth hugged it out and they are cool now (perhaps more eloquently said) and Joker and EDI are in love. Harbringer holds to his theory that eventually we will go back to fighting like cats and dogs. They politely agree to disagree. ;)  Harbringer and his ships start tearing into the Crucible/Citadel. Shephard points the weapon solely at the Reapers, and sends a message to the fleet to get out of the line of fire. The weapon fires, allied ships scramble to get out of the way, some get caught in the destructive beam (maybe a web of energy, a wave?) and the Reapers get plastered.

Harbringer lifts off the station and with his ships head for the mass relay (the beam/wave fired out the front of the station so they alone are spared). As the station tears itself apart from a combination of battle damage and activation, the Normandy arrives. Shephard thinks about retrieving Anderson's body, but there is now time, he runs for the ship. The Normandy pulls a "return of the jedi" and flies out of the exploding death star/crucible just in the nick of time. The galaxy is saved, the Reapers are almost extinct and the sentient races have banded together for a worthy cause. However, Harbringer is still out there with a handful of destroyers and all the tech he needs to one day launch another attack. With the Citadel destroyed, Earth is named the new headquarters of the galactic council. At the end, the leaders of the fleets meet on Earth to break ground on a new headquarters, Shephard gets a medal or something, maybe Omaha Steaks or a Gamestop gift certificate and his love interest plants a kiss on him. The parts I am most attached to have already been said, I'm just throwing in the kiss and the medal because why not?

Renegade Ending: I haven't played the game as a renegade yet, so my ending for that is a little sketchier, but here goes. Shephard sides with the illusive man to take the opportunity to take control of the Reapers. The Illusive Man believes he can use his newfound power in conjunction with the Crucible to subjugate the Reapers. I.M. takes the controls and attempts the take over as the Crucible struggles to modify the energy being projected. As it is in the original ending (if my memory of the youtube video is accurate), taking control of the reapers requires the person taking over sacrifice themself in some kind of merger. So I.M. figures out too late that he can't let go of the controls now and it's sucking him in. He asks Shephard for help, begs him to help him out of it. Here you can go for double-renegade and tell him tough cookies, but thanks for your contributing or half-renegade and try to help him but fail. He merges, dissapears and the Reapers stand down awaiting new commands. The puzzled alien fleet continues to pound the Reapers until Shephard radios them to say that humanity is now in control and will use the Reapers to protect themselves and the galaxy, whether anyone else likes it or not. Instead of building a new HQ for the council on Earth, ground is broken on a new Alliance HQ from which they will use the Reapers to bring order to the galaxy.

Third Ending: Shephard choosed to go with original programming of the Crucible, destroys the Reapers, the relays, everythings. Before it goes off, Shephard radios the fleet to tell them now is the time to go back to their worlds before it is too late and they are stranded on Earth. They leave, it fires, the Citadel/Crucible is destroyed too since it is Reaper tech. and it wouldn't be total destruction if it survived. Since the ships are leaving, no one is able to rescue Shephard, he/she dies on the station as it explodes. On Earth, no Council HQ, no Alliance base, just a memorial to Shephard and the fallen who died to give the inhabitants of the galaxy a real chance at determining their own destiny.