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[fiendishchicken]

JBPBRC wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

If my Shepard had it his way, she'd get a one way transfer to Earth, with a write-up telling that she'd make an excellent body-guard for some politician or admiral.

And then the Derperus coup happens with Udina. Zing! 

Well, I'm an admirer of Cerberus and TIM, and honestly, I don't mind Udina. I don't like how he sucks up to the Council all the time in ME1, but he does have valid points.

If Cerberus wasn't indoctrinated, my Shepard would have helped them.

Eh, was talking more about Ashley being the bodyguard for the Council. Coincidentally failing at that as well.

Oh, my headcanon has her put her gun up at me and Shepard blows her away without hesitation. Even puts in the report that she was duped into working with Cerberus.

It makes her even dumber. I have Ashley as working so hard to clear her family name, only to scrub it worse than her grandfather ever could have. 

"I hope the Reapers send you to hell!"

End of the game, I pick destroy, marry Miranda, and go on with her to restart Cerberus.

[TurianRebel212]

Belisarius25 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It was all politics and sabotage by Udina and Cerberus. The VS didn't earn their Spectre rank. As the question is posed to Garrus being a spectre, I am a huge fan of Garrus, but I don't think his service record is worthy of Spectre status. He was in the military, all turians are, a great c-sec officer, and a vigilante on Omega. Shep is a war hero, N7 Spec ops Marine, Highly Decorated war hero. Saren was blackwatch spec ops and was a Spectre for over 20 years. Spectres are a lot of the time, Spec ops from their respected military, STG, N7, Blackwatch, Asari Commandos and so on. Garrus is awesome and an expert sniper and tactical operator, but not Spectre quality. Sorry

If Jondum Bao (or however its spelled) can be a Spectre, Garrus can be a Spectre.

 




Bao is an STG operatative. Spectre's usually recruit the elite from the elite. Garrus should join black watch, then he would have enough cred. Hell, if it were up to me I would appoint Garrus to Spectre status, but the council probably wouldn't. I think Garrus is so boss that he could probably pass N7 training. 

I'm actually glad they didn't make Garrus a Spectre in the 'current' trilogy, they went a little over the top with making him Shepard's BFF/best sniper ever/top Turian advisor, etc. Going into ME2 I was hoping they might put him back into CSec or a Spectre and go in a different direction but I think they decided "people like Garrus so we'll throw stuff his way".

y u no like Space Batman???

[Dean_the_Young]

Wouldn't Garrus actually have to not only want the job, but not give up and switch careers (again) in order to be a Spectre?

It's not like the doors were closed to him: ME1 leaves with Renegade!Garrus going to re-apply for Spectrehood, and ME2 pretty much establishes that even that was too much trouble for him to put up with.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird here, but I think the Council would at least want someone able to show commitment to being a Spectre, or even just sticking with a job in general, as a general prerequisite for making the Spectre. You can say a lot of good things about Garrus, but his ability to stay focused on his goal and not give it up isn't really one of them.

[JBPBRC]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

I'm actually glad they didn't make Garrus a Spectre in the 'current' trilogy, they went a little over the top with making him Shepard's BFF/best sniper ever/top Turian advisor, etc. Going into ME2 I was hoping they might put him back into CSec or a Spectre and go in a different direction but I think they decided "people like Garrus so we'll throw stuff his way".

y u no like Space Batman???

I don't see how anyone could not like Space Batman.

[JBPBRC]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Wouldn't Garrus actually have to not only want the job, but not give up and switch careers (again) in order to be a Spectre?

It's not like the doors were closed to him: ME1 leaves with Renegade!Garrus going to re-apply for Spectrehood, and ME2 pretty much establishes that even that was too much trouble for him to put up with.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird here, but I think the Council would at least want someone able to show commitment to being a Spectre, or even just sticking with a job in general, as a general prerequisite for making the Spectre. You can say a lot of good things about Garrus, but his ability to stay focused on his goal and not give it up isn't really one of them.

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

[TurianRebel212]

JBPBRC wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

I'm actually glad they didn't make Garrus a Spectre in the 'current' trilogy, they went a little over the top with making him Shepard's BFF/best sniper ever/top Turian advisor, etc. Going into ME2 I was hoping they might put him back into CSec or a Spectre and go in a different direction but I think they decided "people like Garrus so we'll throw stuff his way".

y u no like Space Batman???

I don't see how anyone could not like Space Batman.

So. Much. Win.   :happy::happy::happy:

[Belisarius25]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

y u no like Space Batman???

I like Garrus just fine from a personal standpoint, I just find him kind of blah as a character narratively speaking. I may not explain this well, but while it's nice to have a good friend who always backs you up, becomes really important/valuable/skliled and never argues with you, it's not very *exciting* to have too many of those types of characters around in a game.

For me at least, your mileage will vary of course (and clearly it does ).

Modifié par Belisarius25, 26 janvier 2013 - 07:27 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Belisarius25 wrote...

Jake Boone wrote...

Pheonix57 wrote...

I've been arguing this for a while. In my opinion, this is the order most deserving of Spectreship:
1) Garrus
In Shepard's absence he took it upon himself to bring justice to Omega, a place that needs it dearly. He's morally good, and has proven his initiative to actually make the galaxy a better place.

2) Ashley
Is a traditional soldier and the sole survivor of her mission on Eden Prime, she held her own against the geth. (And I would argue that her racism hinders her, but she seems to be more open minded in the last two games)

3) Kaidan
He's a talented biotic, but we haven't seen anything that really compels him to be a Spectre.

Racism doesn't disqualifiy you from being chosen as a spectre. Saren was one of the best (before he got indoctrinated) and he was pretty racist.

Not to mention that Ashley's mistrust of aliens is very different than Saren's outright hatred of humans (good work there, Council), and a big part of her character arc (that people either ignore or don't bother going through) is that after working with different races (the aliens on the Normandy, Virmire) she starts getting past that.

The "character [x] did nothing in ME1/2 and just sat around" argument doesn't make sense though. In your personal game you might only use certain characters but the game universe treats it as if every character was involved assuming they were recruited - it's why Wrex will talk to you about Noveria when he introduces the Rachni mission as if he was there, even if he wasn't. It wouldn't make sense to rely on three man squads to do everything, anyway.

It's even sillier when people start comparing her to Shepard qualifications. Shepard's pre-ME1 combat history is so far in the realm of head-canon that even if you don't compare events (help save the galaxy from a rogue Spectre with armies versus, the largest Shepard history, helping save a small colony world from a pirate raid), anything you imagine about the pre-service history that makes your Shepard look cool is effectively fanfic.

What's most bizaar, though, is the idea that the Virmire Survivor getting Spectre status as an output of politics is somehow a disqualification... or something that didn't apply just as much to Shepard. The entire start of ME1 pretty much establishes that the Council only grudgingly gave Shepard the nod as a result of years of political pressure and bargaining.

Before people start going over how unreasonable it is for Ashley to get Spectre Status, it would really help them to consider how any possible Shepard also got the nod. Otherwise they'll end up going 'she doesn't deserve Spectre status because she doesn't have the views or characteristics of my Shepard,' which quickly becomes an insult to other players with different Shepards regardless of whether the 'my' Shepard deserves it or not in the first place.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 janvier 2013 - 07:30 .

[TurianRebel212]

Belisarius25 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

y u no like Space Batman???

I like Garrus just fine from a personal standpoint, I just find him kind of blah as a character narratively speaking. I may not explain this well, but while it's nice to have a good friend who always backs you up, becomes really important/valuable/skliled and never argues with you, it's not very *exciting* to have too many of those types of characters around in a game.

For me at least, your mileage will vary of course (and clearly it does ).

Yeah, I can see your standpoint. He does not disagree with Shep that oftern. But he is the most loyal of his friends. I'd say him and Tali. 

[Dean_the_Young]

JBPBRC wrote...

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

Thank got for Udina's political shinanigans on Shepard's behalf, eh?

[JBPBRC]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

Thank got for Udina's political shinanigans on Shepard's behalf, eh?

What?

[Belisarius25]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

y u no like Space Batman???

I like Garrus just fine from a personal standpoint, I just find him kind of blah as a character narratively speaking. I may not explain this well, but while it's nice to have a good friend who always backs you up, becomes really important/valuable/skliled and never argues with you, it's not very *exciting* to have too many of those types of characters around in a game.

For me at least, your mileage will vary of course (and clearly it does ).

Yeah, I can see your standpoint. He does not disagree with Shep that oftern. But he is the most loyal of his friends. I'd say him and Tali. 

For what it's worth, I have the same issue with Tali and Liara - I get that Bioware doesn't want the ship full of people grumbling about Shepard but I like having a little more depth to it (Tali at least requires a little effort in ME2 to get her on board, I guess).

That being said, I still like having those characters around (Tali's like a little sister to my "canon" Shepard, Garrus is still his best friend, Liara...eh depends on the day I'm playing I guess )....it's just a nagging thing that bothers me from time to time.

[Punisher cork]

Token white woman.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

Jake Boone wrote...

Pheonix57 wrote...

I've been arguing this for a while. In my opinion, this is the order most deserving of Spectreship:
1) Garrus
In Shepard's absence he took it upon himself to bring justice to Omega, a place that needs it dearly. He's morally good, and has proven his initiative to actually make the galaxy a better place.

2) Ashley
Is a traditional soldier and the sole survivor of her mission on Eden Prime, she held her own against the geth. (And I would argue that her racism hinders her, but she seems to be more open minded in the last two games)

3) Kaidan
He's a talented biotic, but we haven't seen anything that really compels him to be a Spectre.

Racism doesn't disqualifiy you from being chosen as a spectre. Saren was one of the best (before he got indoctrinated) and he was pretty racist.

Not to mention that Ashley's mistrust of aliens is very different than Saren's outright hatred of humans (good work there, Council), and a big part of her character arc (that people either ignore or don't bother going through) is that after working with different races (the aliens on the Normandy, Virmire) she starts getting past that.

The "character [x] did nothing in ME1/2 and just sat around" argument doesn't make sense though. In your personal game you might only use certain characters but the game universe treats it as if every character was involved assuming they were recruited - it's why Wrex will talk to you about Noveria when he introduces the Rachni mission as if he was there, even if he wasn't. It wouldn't make sense to rely on three man squads to do everything, anyway.

It's even sillier when people start comparing her to Shepard qualifications. Shepard's pre-ME1 combat history is so far in the realm of head-canon that even if you don't compare events (help save the galaxy from a rogue Spectre with armies versus, the largest Shepard history, helping save a small colony world from a pirate raid), anything you imagine about the pre-service history that makes your Shepard look cool is effectively fanfic.

What's most bizaar, though, is the idea that the Virmire Survivor getting Spectre status as an output of politics is somehow a disqualification... or something that didn't apply just as much to Shepard. The entire start of ME1 pretty much establishes that the Council only grudgingly gave Shepard the nod as a result of years of political pressure and bargaining.

Before people start going over how unreasonable it is for Ashley to get Spectre Status, it would really help them to consider how any possible Shepard also got the nod. Otherwise they'll end up going 'she doesn't deserve Spectre status because she doesn't have the views or characteristics of my Shepard,' which quickly becomes an insult to other players with different Shepards regardless of whether the 'my' Shepard deserves it or not in the first place.

Well said. I agree.

[Dean_the_Young]

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

Thank got for Udina's political shinanigans on Shepard's behalf, eh?

What?

Who do you think did the political maneuvers for Shepard to get back the status in ME3 if you didn't get it back in ME2?

[JBPBRC]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

Thank got for Udina's political shinanigans on Shepard's behalf, eh?

What?

Who do you think did the political maneuvers for Shepard to get back the status in ME3 if you didn't get it back in ME2?

What political manuevers? If there were any it couldn't have been that difficult, what with the tiny distraction of a giant army of robot space cuttlefish killing everything.

For all we know it was the Turian Councilor's way of trying to get on Shepard's good side so he can go save his primarch from certain death. Enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 26 janvier 2013 - 08:00 .

[Dean_the_Young]

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

Thank got for Udina's political shinanigans on Shepard's behalf, eh?

What?

Who do you think did the political maneuvers for Shepard to get back the status in ME3 if you didn't get it back in ME2?

What political manuevers? If there were any it couldn't have been that difficult, what with the tiny distraction of a giant army of robot space cuttlefish killing everything.

Reinstating Shepard as a Spectre was a political decision. It only retroactively became useful to some Council powers (for getting on Surkesh), but otherwise it's barely even a bone for Humanity instead of help for Earth... but even deciding on what bone is something the Human diplomatic representative is going to have to initiate.

For all we know it was the Turian Councilor's way of trying to get on Shepard's good side so he can go save his primarch from certain death. Enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

If Shepard refused the Spectre status in ME2, then the Turian Councilor would have to be an idiot to think that.

[JBPBRC]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

Thank got for Udina's political shinanigans on Shepard's behalf, eh?

What?

Who do you think did the political maneuvers for Shepard to get back the status in ME3 if you didn't get it back in ME2?

What political manuevers? If there were any it couldn't have been that difficult, what with the tiny distraction of a giant army of robot space cuttlefish killing everything.

Reinstating Shepard as a Spectre was a political decision. It only retroactively became useful to some Council powers (for getting on Surkesh), but otherwise it's barely even a bone for Humanity instead of help for Earth... but even deciding on what bone is something the Human diplomatic representative is going to have to initiate.

Not necessarily. Its possible the other members of the Council preemptively did this just so they could point to Udina and say "See? We're helping!". Its just as possible that Udina did it on his own gumption, but there's no evidence for either.

For all we know it was the Turian Councilor's way of trying to get on Shepard's good side so he can go save his primarch from certain death. Enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

If Shepard refused the Spectre status in ME2, then the Turian Councilor would have to be an idiot to think that.

Heyyyy. Never said he was smart.

[Dean_the_Young]

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Eh. Apparently they don't seem to mind, really. Shepard can flat-out refuse to be one again in ME2 after all. No harm done.

Thank got for Udina's political shinanigans on Shepard's behalf, eh?

What?

Who do you think did the political maneuvers for Shepard to get back the status in ME3 if you didn't get it back in ME2?

What political manuevers? If there were any it couldn't have been that difficult, what with the tiny distraction of a giant army of robot space cuttlefish killing everything.

Reinstating Shepard as a Spectre was a political decision. It only retroactively became useful to some Council powers (for getting on Surkesh), but otherwise it's barely even a bone for Humanity instead of help for Earth... but even deciding on what bone is something the Human diplomatic representative is going to have to initiate.

Not necessarily. Its possible the other members of the Council preemptively did this just so they could point to Udina and say "See? We're helping!". Its just as possible that Udina did it on his own gumption, but there's no evidence for either.

Sure, I'll concede the point that Shepard could have gotten Spectre status in ME3 due to someone else's political maneuverings.

Heyyyy. Never said he was smart.

True enough.

[MinatheBrat]

Anyone who can trade their armor in for heels and a miniskirt deserves to be a Spectre!!
hahaha...snort

[knightnblu]

Williams is a social climber. She sleeps with Shepard to break her family curse and presto! She doesn't know him at all in ME2 despite the fact that he saved her life and she believes him to be a traitor and Cerberus lickspittle. In ME3 she's made Lt. Cmdr. and still thinks Shepard is a Cerberus lackey and ignores Anderson's request and urging for her to go and see Shepard. In this respect, she treats Shepard exactly like the Alliance treated her grand dad after the First Contact War. She translates that friction into gaining Spectre status courtesy of Udina and only goes back to Shepard after pulling a drunk to get her brain pickled enough so that she can stand getting back into bed with him again to climb a few more rungs up the ladder because the universe has moved him into position to be important again.

For the life of me I don't understand why people cannot see this broad for who she is and what her agenda is all about. She is only your friend when it benefits her and she only loves Shepard when she sees that his star is rising. Frankly, I'm surprised that she didn't put a bullet in Shepard's head on the Citadel in order to curry additional favor with Udina. The only reason that she didn't was likely because she figured she would get more mileage out of Shepard.

Williams is a gold digger and doesn't mind using her charms when she figures it is to her advantage to do so. But when she has no more use for you she will kick you to the curb and wipe the mud off her boots on you. That's why she got Spectre status because Udina saw her for what she really is.

[Ageless Face]

Garrus would have been a terrible Spectre. He's too much Shepard's puppet. Ashley might be the Alliance's and the council's puppet too, but that's kind of a Spcetre's job. And even then she knows when to defy them (ME1, Normandy's lockdown, anyone?), so she still has a brain of her own.

Besides, The Turians don't need more Spectres' representations, as there are probably plenty of those (Relatively). The Humans do need more human Spectres, however.

Although I'd kick her right in the ass and out of the airlock for those heels. And skirt.

[Baldrick67]

xtorma wrote...

I never really liked ashley after horizon. She was just promoted so udina had someone to use.

Edit: plus too xenophobic to be a decent spectre.

As oppossed to Saren who was openly hostile to humanity .... lol

[DRACO1130]

context.
its not what Willaims has done, its what garrus had done.
Failed C sec officer.
Mercenary.
Turian 'disappointment' to his family.
Add to that the attack on  earth and the political reality of the council needing to throw human councillor Udina a sop, and Williams was assured.
Also, speculation that TIM may have influenced  Udina's choice as part of the cerberus coup on the citadel seems probable.

[ElementL09]

I don't think Garrus wanted to be a spectre in the first place. Just replayed Mass Effect and he doesn't seem to fond of the position. Personally , I think Garrus would make a great spectre, but he wouldn't be a bad leader as well. Spectres usually work alone doing whatever it takes to get the job done. While Garrus can and has done that to a certain extent, I think with his morals prevent him from just being the type of person to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

Ashley or Kaiden to me just seems like they were just given that position.