139 réponses à ce sujet

[tetrisblock4x1]

Far as I can tell, explaining the Reapers changed nothing about the trilogy or what it was about so what was the point? They were just the overwhelming force forcing everyone to become friends in ME and ME2. ME3 should have just kept them that way imo.  If it weren't for the Reapers then the Quarians and Geth and the
Krogans and Turians they'd most likely just wage war on one another, and ME would just be a war story rather than a "why can't we be friends" story... nobody asked why the Orcs of Middle Earth or the Blightspawn of Dragon
Age were massive jerks, so why ask about the Reapers? When it comes to these kind of antagonists the simplest motives
are normally the best. So, with that in mind I suggest an alternative explanation than "yo dawg we created synthetics to kill you so tat you wouldn't be killed by synthetics". It's a really simple one too: The Reapers are the most
advanced and ancient evil in the universe and they like it like that so they want to prevent the rest of the universe from becoming a threat to Reaper dominance, but at the same time the Reapers themselves need to reproduce and are part organic so their dependence on lesser species is preventing the Reapers from removing all other life forms forever. And that is about as complex as the Reapers need to be for the purpose of the Mass Effect trilogy. Ironically, this is the very explanation that we got for the Reapers in ME and ME2, and far as I can tell most people would consider it a perfectly logical explanation, though I bet a handful of people at BSN thought it was too simple of an explanation or not "hard sci-fi" (whatever the **** does that even mean?) enough

[Han Shot First]

The 'we protect you by killing you' bit just did not make any sense.

[Uchimura]

Actually it makes sense perfectly in the context of what you've already experienced in the ME universe. Take Krogan for example. They reached a point where they could kill a whole race if they wanted to. Then the genophage happened, basically achieveing the same thing.

It's a concept that's been used in quite a few stories.

Modifié par Uchimura, 17 mars 2012 - 06:27 .

[Sdrol117]

Han Shot First wrote...

The 'we protect you by killing you' bit just did not make any sense.

Really, it didnt. They want to harvest us, yet all they do is destroy our planets and BLOW PEOPLE UP. DIRECTLY SHOOTING AT THEM. It doesn't logically make sense at all. They should have been grabbing shuttles out of the air and sucking the people out to process them, not blowing them up.

[Sdrol117]

Uchimura wrote...

Actually it makes sense perfectly in the context of what you've already experienced in the ME universe. Take Krogan for example. They reached a point where they could kill a whole race if they wanted to. Then the genophage happened, basically achieveing the same thing.

It's a concept that's been used in quite a few stories.

I am not seeing your connection at all.

[Uchimura]

You're probably not thinking about the scale of it. The Krogan would have basically achieved what the reapers are doing, except leave no history behind. They would just annihilate the entire race without any documentation outside of 'Yea! We pwned those humans, turians, and salarians'. There is never a point in time where there will be an absolute peace, there's always some form of life trying to wage war.

Modifié par Uchimura, 17 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[Sdrol117]

Uchimura wrote...

You're probably not thinking about the scale of it. The Krogan would have basically achieved what the reapers are doing, except leave no history behind. They would just annihilate the entire race without any documentation outside of 'Yea! We pwned those humans, turians, and salarians'. There is never a point in time where there will be an absolute peace, there's always some form of life trying to wage war.

The Reapers aren't doing that though. The Reapers want to harvest us. It's entirely different. The idea that they are blatantly killing us is illogical. It made sense that sovereign fought back, because he didnt want to die. But they are just coming in and rampaging us like LOL WE ARE YOUR GODS NOW GET OWNED NOOBS. The 5 humans they didn't kill aren't going to make a reaper. 

[Sdrol117]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...



Mass Effect 3 Reaper logic.... I wish they would have just asked some random fan to write the backstory at this point because this logic is worse than "Dumb Facebook Girl" logic.

I +1 this statement. 

[Uchimura]

Ah, I see what you mean. Flat out killing instead of what the collectors were doing. Maybe Shepard and humans were thought of as that much of a threat. Weaken the humans until they're ready to be harvested?

Modifié par Uchimura, 17 mars 2012 - 06:39 .

[Sdrol117]

Uchimura wrote...

Ah, I see what you mean.

I'm not arguing to argue, I just simply don't get it. I dont get what the hell Bioware was trying to do.

[Han Shot First]

Uchimura wrote...

Actually it makes sense perfectly in the context of what you've already experienced in the ME universe. Take Krogan for example. They reached a point where they could kill a whole race if they wanted to. Then the genophage happened, basically achieveing the same thing.

It's a concept that's been used in quite a few stories.

The argument was that by wiping out galactic civilization every 50,000 years it prevents the creation of pure synthetics that would then wipe out said civilizations. We 'protect life by killing it' does not make sense, as the Reapers could just as easily swoop in and annihilate the synthetics. if protection of oragnic life is really their goal, why annihilate it?

The star child's argument was also on shaky ground because Shepard had just spent the entire game molding EDI into a being that was willing to sacrifice its own life to save organics, and in getting the Geth to ally with the Quarians. Shepard has disproved the theory that cooperation between synthetics and organics was impossible, but isn't given the option of calling the Star Child on it.

And even worse, the Star Child is apparently supposed to be some kind of deity. It just seemed so completely out of place in Mass Effect.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 17 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[Sdrol117]

^This guy above me understands. SO MANY FLAWS.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Yeah it's quite obvious that the Reapers aren't a "preserved race of nations"... they're sentient AI with organic goo in them.. the goo having nothing to do with a living breathing person in that state.

There was no ascendence.. more like being "archived" in AI form along with a gooey souvenir

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 17 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

Han Shot First wrote...

Uchimura wrote...

Actually it makes sense perfectly in the context of what you've already experienced in the ME universe. Take Krogan for example. They reached a point where they could kill a whole race if they wanted to. Then the genophage happened, basically achieveing the same thing.

It's a concept that's been used in quite a few stories.

The argument was that by wiping out galactic civilization every 50,000 years it prevents the creation of pure synthetics that would then wipe out said civilizations. We 'protect life by killing it' does not make sense, as the Reapers could just as easily swoop in and annihilate the synthetics. if protection of oragnic life is really their goal, why annihilate it?

The star child's argument was also on shaky ground because Shepard had just spent the entire game molding EDI into a being that was willing to sacrifice its own life to save organics, and in getting the Geth to ally with the Quarians. Shepard has disproved the theory that cooperation between synthetics and organics was impossible, but isn't given the option of calling the Star Child on it.

And even worse, the Star Child is apparently supposed to be some kind of deity. It just seemed so completely out of place in Mass Effect.

The Reapers have been around for a while you know? I trust that their millions of years of synthetic/organic relations has some crdibility to it... just because the Geth and Quarians could get along peacfully to save their asses from the Reapers doesn't mean it'd work out in the long term.

[Uchimura]

Perhaps it's part of the process. The reapers would still come after the collectors took human colonies and what other races they wanted to repurpose, but the collectors failed and regardless, the reapers do the cleanup.

They ultimately wanted to assimilate the humans and that's what he was talking about, but yea you're right, it was just frying everyone.

[Maria Caliban]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

nobody asked why the Orcs of Middle Earth or the Blightspawn of Dragon
Age were massive jerks, so why ask about the Reapers?

People didn't ask why orcs or darkspawn are massive jerks because that information was readily available. In fact, the very first part of DA:O, after the character creator, is an explanation of just that.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[xsdob]

The reapers motivations made sense to me, This cycle has proven to be too risky to allow to exist. We killed two of them, and their pawns(the collectors), and showed that we were willing to destroy an entire system in order to protect ourselves. To them, were just as bad as the thing they are protecting the galaxy from, and must be destroyed.

The reapers aren't interested in protecting "us", but rather what might come after us, that is, pre-space races. They protect them by killing us, there by allowing them to grow up and prosper, and eventually come to the point where "they" become the new "us" and have to be destroyed.

It's self-repeating cycle, based around a flawed "what if" scenario, and it is terrifying that they are willing to cause so much death and destruction to accomplish it. They are, at the end of the day, more synthetic than organic when it comes to logic. They see themselves as being infallible, and that they are needed to perpetuate a false safety they themselves invented, like a machine with an error doing the same wrong thing over and over because nothing and no-one can convince it that it's wrong in doing so.

[Sdrol117]

Uchimura wrote...

Perhaps it's part of the process. The reapers would still come after the collectors took human colonies and what other races they wanted to repurpose, but the collectors failed and regardless, the reapers do the cleanup.

They ultimately wanted to assimilate the humans and that's what he was talking about, but yea you're right, it was just frying everyone.

See, the ONE THING I liked about ME2 was that it made sense. The collectors were not killing, they were throwing people in stasis and harvesting them. Guess that wasnt bad ass enough though. Badass > Consistent story in Bioware's eyes.

[Edje Edgar]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Far as I can tell, explaining the Reapers changed nothing about the trilogy or what it was about so what was the point? They were just the overwhelming force forcing everyone to become friends in ME and ME2. ME3 should have just kept them that way imo.  If it weren't for the Reapers then the Quarians and Geth and the
Krogans and Turians they'd most likely just wage war on one another, and ME would just be a war story rather than a "why can't we be friends" story... nobody asked why the Orcs of Middle Earth or the Blightspawn of Dragon
Age were massive jerks, so why ask about the Reapers? When it comes to these kind of antagonists the simplest motives
are normally the best. So, with that in mind I suggest an alternative explanation than "yo dawg we created synthetics to kill you so tat you wouldn't be killed by synthetics". It's a really simple one too: The Reapers are the most
advanced and ancient evil in the universe and they like it like that so they want to prevent the rest of the universe from becoming a threat to Reaper dominance, but at the same time the Reapers themselves need to reproduce and are part organic so their dependence on lesser species is preventing the Reapers from removing all other life forms forever. And that is about as complex as the Reapers need to be for the purpose of the Mass Effect trilogy. Ironically, this is the very explanation that we got for the Reapers in ME and ME2, and far as I can tell most people would consider it a perfectly logical explanation, though I bet a handful of people at BSN thought it was too simple of an explanation or not "hard sci-fi" (whatever the **** does that even mean?) enough

This, this, this, a thousand times this. After the starchild made clear the reapers were his lil angels of unreasonable 'order' they lost all character to me. Before they were creepy and mysteriously evil. Now they're just bland robotic executers of order 66.

Modifié par Edje Edgar, 17 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[Sdrol117]

xsdob wrote...

The reapers motivations made sense to me, This cycle has proven to be too risky to allow to exist. We killed two of them, and their pawns(the collectors), and showed that we were willing to destroy an entire system in order to protect ourselves. To them, were just as bad as the thing they are protecting the galaxy from, and must be destroyed.

The reapers aren't interested in protecting "us", but rather what might come after us, that is, pre-space races. They protect them by killing us, there by allowing them to grow up and prosper, and eventually come to the point where "they" become the new "us" and have to be destroyed.

It's self-repeating cycle, based around a flawed "what if" scenario, and it is terrifying that they are willing to cause so much death and destruction to accomplish it. They are, at the end of the day, more synthetic than organic when it comes to logic. They see themselves as being infallible, and that they are needed to perpetuate a false safety they themselves invented, like a machine with an error doing the same wrong thing over and over because nothing and no-one can convince it that it's wrong in doing so.

Except the very end of ME3 is STILL attempting to hold onto the harvesting theory, disproving everything you just said.

[Uchimura]

^ Nice xsdob.

[Han Shot First]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Uchimura wrote...

Actually it makes sense perfectly in the context of what you've already experienced in the ME universe. Take Krogan for example. They reached a point where they could kill a whole race if they wanted to. Then the genophage happened, basically achieveing the same thing.

It's a concept that's been used in quite a few stories.

The argument was that by wiping out galactic civilization every 50,000 years it prevents the creation of pure synthetics that would then wipe out said civilizations. We 'protect life by killing it' does not make sense, as the Reapers could just as easily swoop in and annihilate the synthetics. if protection of oragnic life is really their goal, why annihilate it?

The star child's argument was also on shaky ground because Shepard had just spent the entire game molding EDI into a being that was willing to sacrifice its own life to save organics, and in getting the Geth to ally with the Quarians. Shepard has disproved the theory that cooperation between synthetics and organics was impossible, but isn't given the option of calling the Star Child on it.

And even worse, the Star Child is apparently supposed to be some kind of deity. It just seemed so completely out of place in Mass Effect.

The Reapers have been around for a while you know? I trust that their millions of years of synthetic/organic relations has some crdibility to it... just because the Geth and Quarians could get along peacfully to save their asses from the Reapers doesn't mean it'd work out in the long term.

Even so, what right does the Star Child have to deny intelligent beings their free will? Why do the civilizations of the galaxy need him to decide and guide their fate? Other than being a deity of course. I still can't believe the writers pulled the God card and introduced a supernatural being into the lore. It just seems so ridiculously out of place in the Mass Effect universe.

I think Bioware should have just kept it simple, and had the Reapers be nothing more than a civilization that uploaded itself into machines as way of achieving eternal life, and who wiped out civilizations for no other reason than to destroy potential challengers before they could threaten them, while creating new Reapers.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 17 mars 2012 - 06:53 .