84 réponses à ce sujet

[AshirahTSparkle]

Miwenskee wrote...

Since I don't have the Black Widow myself, I was wondering if it has the same ammo capacity as the M-98. I get that a clip has 3 shots, but if the amount of rounds all together is the same as the amount of rounds an M-98 has, I'd prefer the M-98. I tend to use just one weapon on my infil so my style of play is "use your rounds wisely and hold your ground as much as you can before searching for an ammo crate", and I think I'll be out of rounds more quickly if I use the Black Widow. Again, this is relevant only in the case that the ammo capacity of the Black Widow is equal to the one of the M-98. If the Black Widow has more rounds, I'd prefer it.

Got a deja vu while writting, btw.

I don't have the Black Widow myself, But judging from my friend's character speech "low on ammo!' when using her Black Widow II, ammo could be an issue. Again, this is the same issue with Widow at II. So yeah, at low levels, BW will probably have very little ammo, which means frequent trips to the ammo crate. But...that's what ammo packs are for! Not sure about you, but everyone i talk to told me that they have 200+ or even max thermal packs. So just use them if you run out of clips during later rounds.

[Catalyst777]

ok i played black widow in story mode and i unlocked widow 5 on multiplayer. i can tell u that its more fun for me to play with widow rather then Black widow.

[havoc373]

personaly i perfer the black widow. or the valiant.

[zerobounds]

The black widow is better because you can fire 3 shots with only a small drop in damage per shot. Too much time is lost during the reload after each shot with the widow.

Basically you're a lot more flexible with the black widow and over the same period of time you will do the same damage at least, consider that if you miss with the Widow you've lost all damage, whereas if you miss with the black widow you still have ammo in your clip to try again. Plus you can switch targets mid clip, and change on the fly without having to reload. Coming out of a cloak you can the damage bonus on THREE shots instead of one, making the damage output way higher potential for the black widow.

It's not preference, the Black Widow is a better rifle all around. If the Widow did twice the damage it did now then it would be better but it doesn't so the BW stands on the podium here.

[ABjerre]

havoc373 wrote...

personaly i perfer the black widow. or the valiant.

Agreed - i've never liked the "1 shot cannon", as it takes it would be faster to run to the store and buy a new gun than to reload the old one. The gameplay that having multiple shots before reloading gives, is much more appealing to me.

[DangerKnerd]

The problem with the black widow is that its too rare. I have unlocked widow IX and no black widow yet. When i finally unlock it ill proberly have widow X and it seems a X weapon is far better than a I weapon. Oh, and as far as i know the black widow isnt a one shot kill weapon and wouldnt fit my playstyle as well as the far more powerfull widow.

[crushcrushcrush]

Widow loses most of its effectiveness on Gold thanks to shield gate. I've got Widow X and BW II- BWII outshines Widow X most of the time.

[AshirahTSparkle]

zerobounds wrote...


It's not preference, the Black Widow is a better rifle all around. If the Widow did twice the damage it did now then it would be better but it doesn't so the BW stands on the podium here.

I don't see how doubling the Widow's damage would help at all. As it stands, a body shot from a Widow X can pretty much kill any unshielded grunts on Gold. Shield gating nullify any boost to damage, so it doesn't really matter if Widow gets a boost in damage, we still need 2 shots to kill them. That leaves the Elites and Armoured target. With a headshot, I can shave off the whole bar of shield, or half a bar of armor off a Brute/Prime/Ravager (not sure about Atlas since Canopy shot doesn't do extra damage). Doubling the damage of Widow would mean we can kill them in one headshot, which would be a little too overpowering.

A body shot with cloak though, only shave off 2-3 units of armor (as far as I can recall), which is pretty weak. But it doesn't bother me that much, since snipers should be aiming for the head and dealing maximum damage and the weak body damage serve to encourage headshots.

[ABjerre]

DangerKnerd wrote...

The problem with the black widow is that its too rare. I have unlocked widow IX and no black widow yet. When i finally unlock it ill proberly have widow X and it seems a X weapon is far better than a I weapon. Oh, and as far as i know the black widow isnt a one shot kill weapon and wouldnt fit my playstyle as well as the far more powerfull widow.

You are right - in many cases it isn't possible to score a 1-shot kill with it. Using overload or energy drain, many mobs require 1 shot to the head, or 2 if you only hit the torso. Thats no problem though, as there are 3 in the clip.
I really hate the widow though as on many mobs, 1 shot is not enough either. It may take out a much larger portion of the health bar, but that doesn't matter, as i STILL have to reload to finish it. I'll trade in the "90% overkill on 2nd round" for a faster rate of fire any day.

[crushcrushcrush]

Canopy shot is bugged on the Atlas- armor piercing weapons damage them twice.

http://social.biowar.../index/11043318

As such it's a massive (unintended) weak spot.

[AshirahTSparkle]

DangerKnerd wrote...

The problem with the black widow is that its too rare. I have unlocked widow IX and no black widow yet. When i finally unlock it ill proberly have widow X and it seems a X weapon is far better than a I weapon. Oh, and as far as i know the black widow isnt a one shot kill weapon and wouldnt fit my playstyle as well as the far more powerfull widow.

Definitely preference between widow X and Black Widow I matters. For me, I generally outperform Black Widow users that I play with on Gold, and they are pretty great snipers to begin with. Sometimes, they perform more kills  than me, but the raw damage Widow do nullify that, even with the slow reload. With the quick reload glitch, my effectiveness with the Widow X greatly increases.


For Widow users, "pick your targe" rings very true. For me, if there's a target that has 1-2 bars of shields that is preventing me from killing them (shield gating), I will just pick another target to shoot and let my teammates strip the shield away, then I home in on the now unshielded target. Effectiveness of Widow users really depends on knowing which target to pick for maximum utility. I guess this is what makes Widow fun for me.

Modifié par AshirahTSparkle, 23 avril 2012 - 12:02 .

[shootist70]

BW - simply because you can divide up your firepower appropriately, depending on the targets. 3 quick headshots means 3 rapidly dead cannibals or geth troopers...and I feel kind of stupid picking off husks with a widow

[crushcrushcrush]

^^ This

The Black Widow is a much more flexible weapon than the Widow is.

Headshots can be pretty useful on difficulties where the Shield Gate is not absolute (i.e. not Gold), especially with a sniper rifle like Black Widow which can leave Marauders on low health instead of killing them. If you're doing a follow up shot, you might as well use their flinch time to line up a headshot. 20 headshots should be easy to get throughout the game.

Also, if you do get the Black Widow, if you're trying to snipe targets, it might be worth reloading after 2 shots if you're successful in taking down something like a Geth Pyro. The 3rd shot does do too much, and when picking out a new target it's helpful to have another shot handy in case you miss one.

[Miwenskee]

Tangster wrote...

vivanto wrote...

Tangster wrote...
Does "Created about 1 month ago" mean nothing?

Maybe he wanted to create a new thread but instead used the search function?

Seriously, people get bashed for creating redundant threads but they shouldn't be using existing ones either?

There are plently of other threads that aren't 1 month old, with much more relevant debate and information.
EDIT:
Although if he found the thread with the BSN, search bar...I guess that's acceptable, given how bad the BSN search is.

I actually googled it . It was the first link that came up so I figured it was recent. Either way, my main point was to bring up the ammo issue, since it wasn't there in the first place. This was my only intention. I didn't know that the time of it's creation had anything to say and I apologize for that.

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

I don't have the Black Widow myself, But judging from my friend's character speech "low on ammo!' when using her Black Widow II, ammo could be an issue. Again, this is the same issue with Widow at II. So yeah, at low levels, BW will probably have very little ammo, which means frequent trips to the ammo crate. But...that's what ammo packs are for! Not sure about you, but everyone i talk to told me that they have 200+ or even max thermal packs. So just use them if you run out of clips during later rounds.

Good point, but still, even though I have 5 slots per game, I figure I will use them all and at some point won't have any ammo... I hate not having ammo . However, since it was stated earlier that the overall amount of rounds is 30+, I'm all for BW (unless it weights more, which I doubt). Still don't have it, though, so that's a bummer...

EDIT: I realize the irony behind having a Black Widow in my signature... I like the color better.

Modifié par Miwenskee, 23 avril 2012 - 12:17 .

[vGriMz]

Bronze: Black Widow (multiple shots, low health, more kills)
Silver: Widow (good against armored targets and good for kills)
Gold: Black Widow (combats against the mechanics, better to use)

Unless I'm a Salarian Infiltrator this is what I stick to.

[crushcrushcrush]

The Black Widow has 18 shots to begin with and weighs more than the Widow.

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Black_Widow
http://masseffect.wi...wiki/M-98_Widow

The Black Widow has less armour and wall penetration than the Widow does and does less damage.

If you're using it as your main weapon, spare thermal clip is very necessary. BWII+ Spare Thermal Clip V has 33 shots total (where I'm at).

[nwj94]

BW is flexibility, in the hands of a proper build (GI, Hunter mode on, max sniper damage bonus, extended barrel V, armor pierce V) it can one shot with the rest of them and can follow up.

M-98 widow is like the Javelin its simply to situational for it to be really good IMO. The BW requires you to be able to land head shots with some degree of consistency. If you miss head shots than you need the damage from a M-98 or a Javelin. On the other hand, if your twitch reflexes are good than BW out performs them. I have a BW II a M-98 IV and a Javelin I. I have used all the weapon and while I can do fine with the M-98/Javelin I would only ever consider taking a BW into any serious game with friends. Versatility matters a lot more than the seduction of raw power which is what the M-98 and Javelin have. Its nice to see so many bars of armor/shield vanish in one hit, but a BW will get ultimately equivalent results in the hands a decent player, but just not as a impressive manner. Combine with Shield gating and the BW out performs or does just as well in every category.

Before you reply telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about please read this.
I'm not saying M-98/Javelin are bad, I myself enjoy using them. In the end personal preference will matter a lot more than a slight difference in over all power. If you genuinely feel comfortable only with Bolt action rifles or vice-versa then use that rifle. The BW is IMO the best sniper in the game, but the reasons are so slight that in practicality it is irreverent. You personal skill/preference will matter more ultimately than any slight variation in power.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Widow does monster damage vs heavy units, that's it's primary strongpoint really. That and the ability to oneshot bodyshot anything without shields from cloak.

Black widow is much better vs normal troopers. Widow is better vs primes and heavies. 3 consecutive BW shots does as much damage vs a prime as a widow yes, but it's harder to line up 3 headshots and it forces you to stay out in the open for longer.

Widow is less of a hassle to use. Fire and forget

I used my widow X for the first time in ages against geth on gold on firebase ghost yesterday. It is really good on the salarian honestly. Like I said it's worse against normal troopers but it wrecks heavies, and if you combine it with someone using overload every shot is a kill on ground troopers anyway.

I also find that i die less when using the reg widow because of less time spent scoped in.

[AdmLancel]

Widow works fine on Silver. I personally don't have much trouble competing with Black Widow/Valiant users on Silver with a Widow. It tears up pretty much anything.

Once you hit Gold though the Widow really loses a lot due to shield gates. Some enemies will start to regenerate their shields relatively swiftly, and as long as they have 1 HP of shields you won't hurt their health, so in general I find if you don't make your follow up Widow shot within about two seconds of finishing the reload you'll have to drop their shields again and try again. Factor in cover and target movement and this can be easier said than done.

Widows still tear up boss class enemies though, and will pretty easily one-shot mooks, but the Black Widow can largely do the same and is far more forgiving against shielded enemies. Still, Widows have excellent penetration characteristics, better than a Black Widow, but that's about its only bonus. It is fun though when you occasionally make those shots through a wall with a Widow and see the kill message flash up. Or better, when three Cannibals line up just right and you squeeze the trigger and the bullet goes through all three of their heads for a kill on all of them.

[Stardusk]

To be honest I think the Valiant is best. No recoil, fast shots and near instantaneous reload speed, coupled by low weight and lots of ammo. I truly wish I had it on MP, got the **** Crusader instead.

[crushcrushcrush]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Widow does monster damage vs heavy units, that's it's primary strongpoint really. That and the ability to oneshot bodyshot anything without shields from cloak.

Black widow is much better vs normal troopers. Widow is better vs primes and heavies. 3 consecutive BW shots does as much damage vs a prime as a widow yes, but it's harder to line up 3 headshots and it forces you to stay out in the open for longer.

Widow is less of a hassle to use. Fire and forget

I used my widow X for the first time in ages against geth on gold on firebase ghost yesterday. It is really good on the salarian honestly. Like I said it's worse against normal troopers but it wrecks heavies, and if you combine it with someone using overload every shot is a kill on ground troopers anyway.

I also find that i die less when using the reg widow because of less time spent scoped in.

Conversely one friendly overload or unexpected knockback and you've wasted a shot. Widow is more punishing to learn I find.

[nwj94]

Stardusk wrote...

To be honest I think the Valiant is best. No recoil, fast shots and near instantaneous reload speed, coupled by low weight and lots of ammo. I truly wish I had it on MP, got the **** Crusader instead.

As I understant it, the problem with the valiant is the lack of Armor Piercing.  Its a good sniper for anti personal, but as I hear it doesn't work well against boss type enemies.  I don't have a valiant personally though, I'm just repeating what I've heard others say, and what the DPS calcs seem to indicate.  On silver/bronze A bolt action will get the job done in the first shot and on Gold a BW is more valuable for being able to get similar results to the Valient but, (as the calc indicates) needing only a little over half the number shots to cut armor.

Valiant is good, but calling it the best sniper (espically since its hard to level) might be a bit of an overstatement.

Edit: for typo

Modifié par nwj94, 23 avril 2012 - 01:40 .

[B3ckett]

crushcrushcrush wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Widow does monster damage vs heavy units, that's it's primary strongpoint really. That and the ability to oneshot bodyshot anything without shields from cloak.

Black widow is much better vs normal troopers. Widow is better vs primes and heavies. 3 consecutive BW shots does as much damage vs a prime as a widow yes, but it's harder to line up 3 headshots and it forces you to stay out in the open for longer.

Widow is less of a hassle to use. Fire and forget

I used my widow X for the first time in ages against geth on gold on firebase ghost yesterday. It is really good on the salarian honestly. Like I said it's worse against normal troopers but it wrecks heavies, and if you combine it with someone using overload every shot is a kill on ground troopers anyway.

I also find that i die less when using the reg widow because of less time spent scoped in.

Conversely one friendly overload or unexpected knockback and you've wasted a shot. Widow is more punishing to learn I find.

BW is better when a lot is happening. If you have tons of enemies all over your team, each shot counts.
I often curse to god when a squadmate runs back and forth before me and takes 30% of the shot at his back.
I find Krogans fancy this the most ;-)
In such cases, another quickly sent bullet is priceless.

I am the kind that prefers more than one shot in any shooting game. It just is more forgiving than a one-shot and I ain't that good in aiming for the head on a XBOX pad...

[AcadiaPaul]

Though when I use BW I am extremely effective with it, I find snipers to be a liability on Silver and Gold more often than they are an asset. Especially 1 shot sniper rifles, which draw people compensating for their lack of skill with raw weapon power. They especially become a liability on upload objective rounds.

Recently, my asari adept w/ a Carnifex beat a guy with a Widow and a guy w/ a Mantis on the same team for score.

[aliteDC]

What's the least widow level you need against gold enemies? I got a level 2 but aint doing much damage. I play as SallyInfi.