84 réponses à ce sujet

[nwj94]

aliteDC wrote...

What's the least widow level you need against gold enemies? I got a level 2 but aint doing much damage. I play as SallyInfi.

Personal skill will matter more than the lvl of the weapon.  A lvl 1 widow of any kind will be fine so long as you can use it well.

Edit: make sure your landing head shots, and have the damage/armor pierce upgrades those help a lot.

Modifié par nwj94, 23 avril 2012 - 02:18 .

[Donny SN]

Don't kid yourself

The M98 Widow is far better, read through everything I'm about to post and you will find that it is not arguable.
There can be opinion on which gun an individual prefers to use but in reality the M98 is more effective.
Everything I am about to post is ALL pure facts, you can NOT argue with facts.


Ammunition should NOT be a problem for anyone other than people new to the game, ammo benches are everywhere, you do NOT need to camp one in order to maintain ammo, they are everywhere and running over to one takes only a brief few seconds, no matter where on the map you might be. If getting to an ammo bench is absolutely not a possibility due to being pinned down with no covered escape, or needing more ammo immediately for fighting a high power enemy, then you can press a magical button called the D-Pad (left on the D-Pad, or if your no the PC it will be 8 if I'm not mistaken)

The M98 Widow is classified as a "Rare" in the item packs you buy
The Black Widow is classified as an "Ultra Rare" in the item packs you buy
Meaning that statistics would suggest by the time you even get the Black Widow I you will already have anywhere from the M98 III to the M98 VI

The Black Widow does 35% less damage than the M98 Widow.
In the time it takes for the Black Widow to fire three shots and reload (excluding the time it takes to line up the shot) the M98 Widow could have fired off a shot, reloaded, and fired a second, and get half way through the second reload (it only takes 50% of the animation for the game to register the reload)
The M98 Widow can pierce 50cm of material by default
The Black Widow can only pierce 25cm of material, again, by default.

Now consider this
The Black Widow has an excessive amount of recoil making you line up 3 completely different shots.
The reload time on the  M98 can be decreased by 50% by cutting the animation after the game registers the new round in your chamber (cutting the animation referring to using an ability, beginning to sprint, snapping to cover, rolling, or ANYTHING else that will stop the animation)

All this considered the M98 can do more DPS than the Black Widow for the following reason:

You could do BOTH of these within the same amount of time

With the Black Widow you could line up and take 3 separate shots and reload. Each shot will do 35% less than the M98 for a total of 195%
_____
With the M98 Widow you could line up and fire 2 shots(reload time included) Each shot will do 100% damage totaling 200%
__________
This is a 5% increase in damage. This may seem small but 5% is a vast amount of damage considering how much damage the weapon does. On a side note, the more skilled that the sniper using the weapon(s) is this increase will only grow larger (The snipers skill meaning how fast he/she can line up the shots, and cut the loading animations)
____________________
The M98 Widow has the built in capability to pierce 50cm of material. This allows you to fire through cover and damage your enemies while their still in cover.
This can fire through all but the heaviest cover such as the corner piece of a wall, large creates, etc.
The M98 Widow can fire through almost all the walls in Multiplayer allowing you to take out the High Value Individuals with ease, for that type of round. The M98 Widow can fire through a guardian shield.

The Black Widow has the built in capability to pierce 25cm of material. This will only allow you to fire through light cover.
This will not fire through most of the walls.
This will however still be able to fire through guardian shields.
____________________

The Black Widow is an "Ultra Rare" drop meaning it will be very, very, VERY rare for you to attain one (even if using the Premium Spectre Pack)
The M98 Widow is a rare item, this makes it's drop chance (surprisingly) VERY common given the assumption that you are buying the Spectre Pack, or the Premium Spectre Pack

____________________
The ONLY advantage the Black Widow has over the M98 Widow is the ammo capability.

The Black Widow has 18 rounds including the chambered shot(s). This means that with it's 35% less damage it will do 1170% damage once you have emptied it's total ammo. (The amount of damage this gun does well than makes up for it's ammo capacity, equipment can easily remedy this for Silver or Gold matches, you should not have any issues on bronze.)

The M98 Widow has 8 rounds including the chambered shot(s). This means that it will have 800% damage once you have emptied it's total ammo. (The amount of damage this gun does well than makes up for it's ammo capacity, equipment can easily remedy this for Silver or Gold matches, you should not have any issues on bronze.)

As I said before though, if you are having issues with ammo you need to learn how use the games features.

Modifié par Donny SN, 13 juin 2012 - 11:32 .

[Seijin8]

Not to dispute your point, but you could've looked up from your calculator long enough to see the thread was posted a month ago. Just sayin.

EDIT:  I suppose I should add something constructive.  Any comparison between Widow and Black Widow has to take into account that you are far more likely to get Widow X before you unlock Black Widow II or III.  (Exceptions exist of course.)  Any straight comparison, level for level is inherently flawed.  By the time I got a BW, I already had a Widow X and the difference in damage - even on Gold - isn't worth the tradeoff of extra shots in my opinion.

Modifié par Seijin8, 13 juin 2012 - 11:30 .

[RNG God]

I don't think it was a good idea to bump this post mate. However, I'll leave a counterargument for future readers. While his point is correct, he fails to implement the shield gate into his reasoning. Only a few enemies have eniugh shields to recieve the full damage from the widow, while the BW wastes less and can fire follow ups faster.

By his logic of 3 vs 2, I could kill a rocket trooper and drop the shields of another, while with a W I would only get the 1 in the same amount of time.

In addition, recoil compensation isn't as hard as you make out, trust me, It only takes 1 game to get the feel for it.

Modifié par SalvationThroughDestruction, 13 juin 2012 - 11:35 .

[toastar]

Widow on salarian drainfiltrator, BW on every other infiltrator.

[Donny SN]

The key term in your response is "In my opinion" I go by facts, as I said, everyone is entitled to preference, for people wondering which one is logistically better though, the M98 is better. And as far as this being a month old, this is on the first page of Google for people searching for things relating to the subject (this is how I was directed to it. I also get agitated when people ask a question along the lines of "Which is better _____ or _____" And people start arguing with each other about opinions instead of legit factual reasoning.

[Donny SN]

Recoil isn't a problem for most but I needed to communicate that ,unlike most snipers, you can not line up a shot, fire, adjust, and fire again. You need to line up a new shot (I've used both, skilled with both)

[ShadowRanger88]

Donny SN wrote...

Don't kid yourself

The M98 Widow is far better

Don't kid yourself. I've looked at your manifest, you know it helps to compare once you ACTUALLY HAVE both guns. Also by the way you talk, you probably play bronze. I assume you've never heard of shield gate. Now, in gold, we have this thing called shield gate where all damage from 1 source gets negated with the shield (once it hits 0). Sure the widow does far greater damage but even if you had a widow XXXXXXXXX that did 100000 damage, it could not kill a marauder. Black widow is far better in gold because of the shield gate and it's ability to put the extra bullet of two into the enemy once it's shields go down giving you the oppurtunity to kill the target.

[ShadowRanger88]

toastar wrote...

Widow on salarian drainfiltrator, BW on every other infiltrator.

This being the only exception.

[RNG God]

Donny SN wrote...

The key term in your response is "In my opinion" I go by facts, as I said, everyone is entitled to preference, for people wondering which one is logistically better though, the M98 is better. And as far as this being a month old, this is on the first page of Google for people searching for things relating to the subject (this is how I was directed to it. I also get agitated when people ask a question along the lines of "Which is better _____ or _____" And people start arguing with each other about opinions instead of legit factual reasoning.

You seem to be headed to a flamewar here. This about arguing with opinions really doesnt belong here. We've both posted our reasoning into why X is better, all legitamate, reasonable arguments, and in addition both of us have posted that you are technically correct, but most will find that the shieldgate throws most raw damage out of the window. Fair enough with the google search, but still keep in mind the date of the post, some things are best left buried.

[GGW KillerTiger]

wilzoon wrote...

I reckon the black widow is rarer than the widow, hence it should be better. Though this is subjective assumption

Widow does more damage but Black Widow has more shots per clip.

[RNG God]

Donny SN wrote...
(I've used both, skilled with both)

Presumably on a friend's account, judging from your manifest. It would help if you could compare the weapons at your own pace, to see what I'm talking about.

[Donny SN]

ShadowRanger88 wrote...

Donny SN wrote...

Don't kid yourself

The M98 Widow is far better

Don't kid yourself. I've looked at your manifest, you know it helps to compare once you ACTUALLY HAVE both guns. Also by the way you talk, you probably play bronze. I assume you've never heard of shield gate. Now, in gold, we have this thing called shield gate where all damage from 1 source gets negated with the shield (once it hits 0). Sure the widow does far greater damage but even if you had a widow XXXXXXXXX that did 100000 damage, it could not kill a marauder. Black widow is far better in gold because of the shield gate and it's ability to put the extra bullet of two into the enemy once it's shields go down giving you the oppurtunity to kill the target.

You assume to much. Also, it's Widow X, not Widow XXXXXXXXXX. Widow X means Widow 10. Widow XXXXXXXXXX would mean Widow 10,000,000,000. I have heard of the shield gate. Given animation cutting the Widow's fire rate isn't nearly as slow as you make it seem. 2 shot's (if your skilled) can be fired a small amount faster than 3 from the BW.

[cylstudio81]

It all depend on your play style, wile Widow provide great one shot DPS, it does require you to be fairly accurate on the battlefield, as for Black Widow, although it single shot damage is not as strong as Widow, but it more forgiving in the way that, if you did miss that one shot, you still have 2 more shots left to hit your target before reload, which makes it a slightly more flexible sniper rifle in comparison to the Widow.

Overall, both are great sniper rifles, in the end of the day, it the way you handle them, that determine their effectiveness~

[.458]

The M-98 hits harder, and has better armor penetration, so far as I can tell. The Black Widow will actually keep you alive longer and do more damage faster...just not on a bullet-per-bullet basis. Overall, the Black Widow is more of a combat weapon.

[Donny SN]

SalvationThroughDestruction wrote...

Donny SN wrote...

The key term in your response is "In my opinion" I go by facts, as I said, everyone is entitled to preference, for people wondering which one is logistically better though, the M98 is better. And as far as this being a month old, this is on the first page of Google for people searching for things relating to the subject (this is how I was directed to it. I also get agitated when people ask a question along the lines of "Which is better _____ or _____" And people start arguing with each other about opinions instead of legit factual reasoning.

You seem to be headed to a flamewar here. This about arguing with opinions really doesnt belong here. We've both posted our reasoning into why X is better, all legitamate, reasonable arguments, and in addition both of us have posted that you are technically correct, but most will find that the shieldgate throws most raw damage out of the window. Fair enough with the google search, but still keep in mind the date of the post, some things are best left buried.

I've communicated fact's and left this, for the most part resolved. Again, everyone has their opinion. Now to watch ragers rage. I hope that someone who actually wanted to know find's this, rather than people who think everyone who disagrees is wrong. If others want to rage then I will just sit back and watch the show

http://static.fjcdn....b2059cca346.jpg

[toastar]

Donny SN wrote...
 2 shot's (if your skilled) can be fired a small amount faster than 3 from the BW. 

I call rubbish on that one. you can empty all 3 shots from a BW in one cloak cycle, killing a centurion and his little idiot brother on gold in one go, good luck doing that with a widow.

Unless you can drain shields, BW versus W on gold is not even a contest, shieldgate takes care of that. And on the drainfiltrator I'd actually go Javelin.

Don't get me wrong, you can make effective use of a Widow on Gold, but if you put the same effort into your BW, you'd kill more stuff, quicker and deader.

Modifié par toastar, 13 juin 2012 - 12:00 .

[FrOoOstBite]

Yet another thread about BW vs M98W.......*Sigh*........
Once again,black widow for me

[Donny SN]

.458 wrote...

The M-98 hits harder, and has better armor penetration, so far as I can tell. The Black Widow will actually keep you alive longer and do more damage faster...just not on a bullet-per-bullet basis. Overall, the Black Widow is more of a combat weapon.

Read my earlier post, the M98 does more DPS. DPS means damage per second, meaning the M98 does more damage faster. Depending on how you use it either weapon has the potential to keep you alive longer than the other. Again, that falls to preference

[Donny SN]

This post is starting to fall into opinions. The first few responses were legit communicating facts, and for those people, you have my respect. I'll check back whenever I get a chance and enjoy the rage fest
static.fjcdn.com/comments/Commander+Shepard+here+standing+by+prepping+for+Sunset+WE+GOT+_9d4470606e9c3cca114fab2059cca346.jpg

Modifié par Donny SN, 13 juin 2012 - 12:03 .

[RNG God]

I've communicated fact's and left this, for the most part resolved. Again, everyone has their opinion. Now to watch ragers rage. I hope that someone who actually wanted to know find's this, rather than people who think everyone who disagrees is wrong. If others want to rage then I will just sit back and watch the show

http://static.fjcdn....b2059cca346.jpg

To be honest, that was exactly the same as the previous post sugar coated in a different way. You can refer to the post you quoted for a counterargument for that. If you're done, I will just assume that it's most likely bias for only owning a Widow, therefore having nothing to compare with. If you think i'm raging, refer to your first post on this forum, which starts out with the words "don't kid yourself" which about sums up what you've just said, and therfore makes you a hypocrite. Good day sir.

Also, your link (likely a deal with it image meme) is broken.

Modifié par SalvationThroughDestruction, 13 juin 2012 - 12:07 .

[toastar]

Donny SN wrote...


Read my earlier post, the M98 does more DPS. DPS means damage per second, meaning the M98 does more damage faster. Depending on how you use it either weapon has the potential to keep you alive longer than the other. Again, that falls to preference

Apart from the fact that real life infiltrator DPS on the BW with cloak and firing cycles syncing up perfectly is higher (cloak recharge is always 3 seconds when short cloaking.), most of the widows Damage goes to waste on gold. So, philosophical question, is it still damage if it's not applied?

I one-body-shoot things just fine with my BW, thank you very much.

So a BW does enough spike damage and a higher sustained damage and is easier to use on top of it.

Only reason to go Widow is if your BW doesn't Kill stuff in one one Bodyshot. That happens only with a very low BW and no gear or if you picked the power evolution on TC (=salarian drainfiltrator or possibly GI with love for prox mines) .

I see how the Widow gets a lot of love on silver though, what with the bleedthrough.

Modifié par toastar, 13 juin 2012 - 12:08 .

[Doc-Jek]

Black widow is better on gold due to shield gate. Simple as that. Also, all this jazz about having to line up 3 different shots per clip with the BW is a little off, considering the fact that the crosshairs return to the exact same spot after the jolt of recoil.

Donny, I really don't understand how you can argue this without actually having the black widow... Simply reading the factsheet doesn't account for many in-game mechanics that alter the effectiveness of the weapon.

[RAF1940]

Don't have the BW.

[UKStory135]

From my experiance:
On bronze: Valiant or BW
On Silver vs. Cerberus: Valiant
On Silver vs. Reapers: Widow
On Silver vs. Geth: BW
On Gold: BW

I still can't beleive that someone can two shot a widow faster than a BW clip. Especially not on console where reload cancelling in not reliable.