341 réponses à ce sujet

[majormajormmajor]

It bothers me how intellectually dishonest most conversations about the ending are in most places.

The people who hate the ending are attacking the ending itself, the writing of it, it's messages, etc. etc.

You get articles like that Gamefront one linked to above which point-for-point explain what was wrong with the ending and why they hate it.

I don't really see people with any kind of volume making attacks against people who like the ending, like "If you like this ending clearly you are an idiot" or anything. I'm not seeing those kinds of articles, I'm not seeing people post giant rants blaming fans for liking the ending.

Yet, conversely, you have articles like the one Colin Moriarty at IGN or Ben Kuchera at PA Report have done, essentially attacking people who hate the ending and questioning them personally. Instead of trying to defend the ending on its own merits, they resort to basically insults,  calling people entitled whiners who don't understand real sci-fi and just want happy endings with ice cream and cake.

This is what this PA comic is doing too, and it's dishonest and lazy. Gabe's newspost earlier this week tried to address people's actual  criticisms with the ending, but it was still full of attacking the people, not the argument.

I think it's pretty telling when one side is critical of the material, and the other side is critical of the people.

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 17 mars 2012 - 10:38 .

[suusuuu]

we won't get far if we start insulting people.

[majormajormmajor]

As far as I am concerned they are swine, personally repugnant as human beings and we should vigorously and vociferously attack them wherever they are.

[Jake71887]

Because it's against the TOS for the site, and it's immature... Just because they act a certain way, does not mean we need to stoop to their level.

[Reptilian Rob]

majormajormmajor wrote...

As far as I am concerned they are swine, personally repugnant as human beings and we should vigorously and vociferously attack them wherever they are.

Please be quite, less you make this movement look even more terrible than it already does in the media's eyes. 

[suusuuu]

as long as we have valid arguments and they have nothing beyond insults and attacks, we win.

[Leeloo Multipass]

Ok but the PA comic made my giggle anyways.

I have noticed this. I see a lot of snarky comments from people supporting the endings. I also see a lot of them accusing the other side of "raging" and "hating." No matter what, there will always be childish parties on both sides, but 90% of what I see from the upset fans is quite civil while 90% of what I see from the "happy" fans is very rude and condescending. I can't wrap my head around that...

[Captain Shakespeare]

They have a different point of view, it's nothing to get upset over.

[Denethar]

As soon as we start going down to their level out cause will die. The reason they're acting like they do is because they want an agressive response to discredit us.

[redplague]

Cause that mod (I can't remember his name) will get his 'End of Line' out.

[Mhgasa]

majormajormmajor wrote...

It bothers me how intellectually dishonest most conversations about the ending are in most places.

The people who hate the ending are attacking the ending itself, the writing of it, it's messages, etc. etc.

You get articles like that Gamefront one linked to above which point-for-point explain what was wrong with the ending and why they hate it.

I don't really see people with any kind of volume making attacks against people who like the ending, like "If you like this ending clearly you are an idiot" or anything. I'm not seeing those kinds of articles, I'm not seeing people post giant rants blaming fans for liking the ending.

Yet, conversely, you have articles like the one Colin Moriarty at IGN or Ben Kuchera at PA Report have done, essentially attacking people who hate the ending and questioning them personally. Instead of trying to defend the ending on its own merits, they resort to basically insults,  calling people entitled whiners who don't understand real sci-fi and just want happy endings with ice cream and cake.

This is what this PA comic is doing too, and it's dishonest and lazy. Gabe's newspost earlier this week tried to address people's actual  criticisms with the ending, but it was still full of attacking the people, not the argument.

I think it's pretty telling when one side is critical of the material, and the other side is critical of the people.

Because its insanely immature and doesnt belong in a debate. It removes the focus from the actual game and quickly turns into monkeys slinging feces at each other.

[majormajormmajor]

Reptilian Rob wrote......

Please be quite, less you make this movement look even more terrible than it already does in the media's eyes. 

They have painted us that way from the outset- the paid prostitues like Kuchera, Plunkett and IGN-  so why should we not return the favour?

[royceclemens]

Attacking us is what they've been reduced to. They can't call us selfish or entitled when we're really nice and give sixty grand to charity, now can they?

We control the narrative. Not them. Don't hand it back to them by being uncivil.

[Ashilana]

majormajormmajor wrote...
This is what this PA comic is doing too, and it's dishonest and lazy. Gabe's newspost earlier this week tried to address people's actual  criticisms with the ending, but it was still full of attacking the people, not the argument.

I think it's pretty telling when one side is critical of the material, and the other side is critical of the people.

At the moment the majority of press regarding the endings portrays those upset as being irrational, personal attacks of any kind are not going to change this perception.

[MDT1]

majormajormmajor wrote...

As far as I am concerned they are swine, personally repugnant as human beings and we should vigorously and vociferously attack them wherever they are.

Maybe, but they would then just claim we are insulting trolls and ignore us.

We wan't things changed while EA/Bioware will use every chance to discredit us so that they don't have to change anything.

Modifié par MDT1, 17 mars 2012 - 10:44 .

[Qutayba]

Just refrain from personal attacks, period. Call them out for their trolling when they do it, but call out those who troll against the defenders, too. I've seen plenty of sincere posts defending the endings get hijacked by insults. We don't need an orthodoxy machine. Our arguments stand on their own two feet, and so can theirs. Rush Limbaugh should not be our model for civil discourse.

[suusuuu]

Denethar wrote...

As soon as we start going down to their level out cause will die. The reason they're acting like they do is because they want an agressive response to discredit us.

This. Also, some people tend to assume that agreeing with the status quo gives them the privilage of freely insulting people who don't like the current state of things. 

[majormajormmajor]

Ashilana wrote...

At the moment the majority of press regarding the endings portrays those upset as being irrational, personal attacks of any kind are not going to change this perception.

MDT1 wrote...

Maybe, but they would thes just claim we are insulting trolls and ignore us.

They're already doing it. We have nothing to gain by being civil, because they treat us like animals.

[Denethar]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote......

Please be quite, less you make this movement look even more terrible than it already does in the media's eyes. 

They have painted us that way from the outset- the paid prostitues like Kuchera, Plunkett and IGN-  so why should we not return the favour?

Because that's exactly what they want....

Because then they would win.

[Doomhams]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote......

Please be quite, less you make this movement look even more terrible than it already does in the media's eyes. 

They have painted us that way from the outset- the paid prostitues like Kuchera, Plunkett and IGN-  so why should we not return the favour?

You cannot defeat a monster by becoming one yourself for in the end you just replace it. Returning the favor, as it were, doesn't move you any closer to the real goal it just makes you feel better while you sacrifice your long term goal for a little short term feel good.

[Nykara]

majormajormmajor wrote...

It bothers me how intellectually dishonest most conversations about the ending are in most places.

The people who hate the ending are attacking the ending itself, the writing of it, it's messages, etc. etc.

You get articles like that Gamefront one linked to above which point-for-point explain what was wrong with the ending and why they hate it.

I don't really see people with any kind of volume making attacks against people who like the ending, like "If you like this ending clearly you are an idiot" or anything. I'm not seeing those kinds of articles, I'm not seeing people post giant rants blaming fans for liking the ending.

Yet, conversely, you have articles like the one Colin Moriarty at IGN or Ben Kuchera at PA Report have done, essentially attacking people who hate the ending and questioning them personally. Instead of trying to defend the ending on its own merits, they resort to basically insults,  calling people entitled whiners who don't understand real sci-fi and just want happy endings with ice cream and cake.

This is what this PA comic is doing too, and it's dishonest and lazy. Gabe's newspost earlier this week tried to address people's actual  criticisms with the ending, but it was still full of attacking the people, not the argument.

I think it's pretty telling when one side is critical of the material, and the other side is critical of the people.

Insulting someone simply because they have a different view to your own is just outright rude.
Debating any game related topics with them as they arise - fine.

Personal insults? Surely people are a little more mature then to have to result to those to put an argument forwards.

There is a big difference between debating the mechanics of a game with someone and personally insulting them.

[MDT1]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Ashilana wrote...

At the moment the majority of press regarding the endings portrays those upset as being irrational, personal attacks of any kind are not going to change this perception.

MDT1 wrote...

Maybe, but they would thes just claim we are insulting trolls and ignore us.

They're already doing it. We have nothing to gain by being civil, because they treat us like animals.

It's a battle of minds. they tried to provoce us, so we would insult them and they could claim we are none constructive trolls that can be ignored.

[gudman]

majormajormmajor wrote...

As far as I am concerned they are swine, personally repugnant as human beings and we should vigorously and vociferously attack them wherever they are.

The ones you talking about are just biased and are defending their profit. It's disgraceful to yourself to try and answer them with same stuff they throw at you. 

[Exeider]

First they ignore you, then they attack you, and then YOU win!

-Æ

[Talogrungi]

If you attack the person rather than the argument, you've already lost.