341 réponses à ce sujet

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

akuma1973 wrote...
]But you are entitled to get what you bought based on advertising. And the ending makes a lot of the marketing for the game false advertising. One reviewer even pointed out that after Bioware defended the 3 endings they said you would not get, that the website still marketed the game as having an ending tailored to your decisions throughout the series.

Exactly.  Consumers are entitled to goods which are of merchantable quality and which are suitable for the purpose for which they are intended.  Artistic integrity doesn't trump product law.

[akuma1973]

NormanRawn wrote...

An example to be fair, saying you found the Catalyst logic to be stupid is, in itself, an insult to the developers intelligence.  After all, the catalyst didn't write it's own dialoge, BioWare did.

No, it's not an insult to their intelligence, it's an insult to their writing skills. Or maybe the opposite is true, the fact they thought we would be ok with it after 5 years of investment in telling the story is an insult to our intelligence.

[piemanz]

johnbonhamatron wrote...

piemanz wrote...

johnbonhamatron wrote...

I disagree that it would render the current options pointless, because it's something that, if it comes down to a choice, you could still choose the endings as they are now.

However...would you accept it if current endings were expanded on, to fill in some of the gaps, and new endings were added to the ones that already exist, for players who want that option?

It would render the current endings pointless because you would finally be faced with the decision where everything is hunky dory or defeating the Reapers at a huge cost. It would be just plain stupid to not choose the hunky dory ending, that's not to say it's better, because it doesn't fit with the tone of the game and makes a joke of the Reaper threat.

But I ask: how would an alternate set of endings (that still have a massive cost in terms of casualties) detract from the endings you personally like?

I've already answered this. Hunky dory doesn't necessarily have to mean stitting on the beach with tequila's, it would still make current endings pointless.

[majormajormmajor]

piemanz wrote...

I've already answered this. Hunky dory doesn't necessarily have to mean stitting on the beach with tequila's, it would still make current endings pointless.

..pointless because others can and will choose differently?

What is it you have against choice, exactly?

[AsheraII]

The minute someone posts that he/she likes the endings, or even that he/she is okay with the endings, those who dislike the endings seem to take that as a personal attack. Nonsense like "you're stupid, you don't understand the Mass Effect IP" gets flung at them. I'm sorry, but to me it just seems that the haters who were previously trying to spew their garbage about SW:TOR have moved onto Mass Effect now. The haters at swtor went suspiciously quiet last week. Coincidence? Well, I simply don't believe in coincidence.

There's definitely some hate campaign against Bioware going on, and plenty of little children who should be too young to even buy this game tacked on to it to be with the "cool /v/ crowd".

Modifié par AsheraII, 17 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[majormajormmajor]

AsheraII wrote...

The minute someone posts that he/she likes the endings, or even that he/she is okay with the endings, those who dislike the endings seem to take that as a personal attack. Nonsense like "you're stupid, you don't understand the Mass Effect IP" gets flung at them.

That's because they usually preface their threads with sentinments like "YOU JUST DON'T LIKE THE ENDINGS BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO STUPID  TO UNDERSTAND LOL"

[Aiyie]

akuma1973 wrote...

Aiyie wrote...



absolutely, you're entitled to your opinion.

hell, personally im not a huge fan of the ending.  there are plot holes and it feels just slapped on.  im personally hoping the indoc theory is true (that would be brilliant... right up there with bioshock's "would you kindly" scene).  but if its not, ok, fine, i got suckered, but thats may fault for not doing the proper research prior to putting my money on the counter.

that said though, i can respect that its not my story, its the author's story (and contrary to popular opinion, im not the author... im just along for the ride in a spectacular interactive story... a choose-your-own-adventure story).

if they wanted to leave it the way they did, so be it.  i paid for the game, i wasn't involved in its development... im not entitled to anything beyond having a functioning disc with a copy of the game on it.  how the game plays out wasn't something i specified prior to purchasing the game.

in any case though, thats my opinion.  yours is probably different.  nothing wrong with that, just agree to disagree and ignore the petty insults since they're not worth the time or effort to be concerned about.

So then you would be satsified if you got your game home, opened it up, it said ME 3 on the disk, you popped it in and you had hannah montana the movie, on the disk? with Shep rendered in over miley Cyrus? Or perhaps you pop the disk in and it loaded up into the end sequence with Star child? You would be fine with that?

heh, there's two sides to that.

first side, obviously i'd be ticked.

more important side though... im the one responsible for paying for it.

im not saying you can't voice your opinion, hell, id be doing just that, especially in that case... but in the end, it was my decision to pay for the product.  i can't blame them for that, its not like they put a gun to my head and said "buy this!"

i paid for it without doing the proper research.  i bought it with a certain expectation but without any verification.  the only thing id be entitled to is being angry... not to having it altered to my expectation.

the exception would be if i had been involved in the product's development.  in which case i would have been paying for not only the finished product, but also everything that went into creating it.

this is why manufacturers get audited by the customers on a regular basis, to verify quality before purchasing the product.  generally the manufacturer tries to provide a quality product, they want repeat business after all, but regardless of that, if the customer is unhappy with the product they're provided, but did not specify what they wanted, the manufacturer is not liable.

[Aiyie]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

akuma1973 wrote...
]But you are entitled to get what you bought based on advertising. And the ending makes a lot of the marketing for the game false advertising. One reviewer even pointed out that after Bioware defended the 3 endings they said you would not get, that the website still marketed the game as having an ending tailored to your decisions throughout the series.

Exactly.  Consumers are entitled to goods which are of merchantable quality and which are suitable for the purpose for which they are intended.  Artistic integrity doesn't trump product law.

you're taking this a bit too far.

based off of what you're saying, every movie and book you ever bought or rented and didn't like would be in violation of product law. 

mass effect, and everything related to it, is bioware's intellectual property, that right there gives them free reign when it comes to artistic integrity without trumping product law.

heh, im having deja vu here.  star wars, prequels vs originals.  like it, hate it, meh about it... are you also going to tell me that George Lucas violated product law when he made the prequels, just because alot of people hate them?

Modifié par Aiyie, 17 mars 2012 - 04:42 .

[77boy84]

AsheraII wrote...

The minute someone posts that he/she likes the endings, or even that he/she is okay with the endings, those who dislike the endings seem to take that as a personal attack. Nonsense like "you're stupid, you don't understand the Mass Effect IP" gets flung at them. I'm sorry, but to me it just seems that the haters who were previously trying to spew their garbage about SW:TOR have moved onto Mass Effect now. The haters at swtor went suspiciously quiet last week. Coincidence? Well, I simply don't believe in coincidence.

There's definitely some hate campaign against Bioware going on, and plenty of little children who should be too young to even buy this game tacked on to it to be with the "cool /v/ crowd".

I'll give you that there was a weird smear campaign against swtor for the longest time, but that has absoloutely no relevance to people disliking Mass Effect's ending.

Come on.

[akuma1973]

Aiyie wrote...

you're taking this a bit too far.

based off of what you're saying, every movie and book you ever bought or rented and didn't like would be in violation of product law. 

mass effect, and everything related to it, is bioware's intellectual property, that right there gives them free reign when it comes to artistic integrity without trumping product law.

No, you are taking that intepretation to far. Books and movies are sold based on what is actually contained within the book or movie, Movie trailers have scenes from the movies, On rare occassions scenes make it into trailers which are cut from the final movie. Mass Effect was marketed and advertised as a game where all your decisions mattered and the ending of the game would be based on these decisions. This is not what we got.

There is a clear difference is seeing the trailers for a movie, and going to see it and being dissapointed. Because we still got what was advertised, we just didn't like it as much as we thought we might. In the case of ME 3 we didn't get what was advertised and want this addressed. Usually when you don't get what was advertised you are entitled to your money back. Not taking it back and trading it for a new game at 10% of it's retail value, but full refund. I know I am entitled to that here in NZ, and I am sure it's the same in australia, and probably the UK.

I wonder how EAware would address the issue if thousands of copies started getting sent back to them because the retailers were getting returns.

[AlekzanderZ]

Read that, very interesting: http://social.biowar.../index/10084349

Explain a lot!

don't fall in the trap!

Modifié par AlekzanderZ, 17 mars 2012 - 04:48 .

[DrDetective]

We shouldn't be mean to them because there is no reason to be a dick about this.

[dkear1]

I agree that personal attacks are not smart. It helps to re-read your message in full prior to sending it. It is worth noting however that this works both ways. There has been quite a lot of attacking going on by those in the "like the endings" camp as well. Best to just let them vent knowing that their few voices are being drowned out anyway.

[rabidm0ng0ose]

majormajormmajor wrote...
Yet, conversely, you have articles like the one Colin Moriarty at IGN or Ben Kuchera at PA Report have done, essentially attacking people who hate the ending and questioning them personally. Instead of trying to defend the ending on its own merits, they resort to basically insults,  calling people entitled whiners who don't understand real sci-fi and just want happy endings with ice cream and cake.

NO, They don't know what real Sci-fi is. Joe Haldeman and Heinlien are REAL Sci-Fi, as well as Bradbury and Orson Scott Card.

Do you know why? Because they combined their stories with a combination of futuritistic predictions, moral themes and warnings about the future, political opinions, examination of what could go wrong and how bleak things can be, BUT THEY ALMOST ALWAYS HAVE A COHERENT AND HOPEFUL ENDING THAT PROVIDES CLOSURE, if not there is ALWAYS a silver lining. Why? Because they are responsible with the work they produce.

Some of the greatest Sci-fi stories ever written follow this formula. Let's take a look at these for a moment....

The Forever War
Starship Troopers
Fahrenheit 451
STAR WARS
Ender's Game series
Dune
Halo

The list goes on and on....

Mass Effect is REAL Sci-Fi because it incorporates all of these into all three games execpt in the ending because there is no cohrence, hope, and closure. It is abdunently clear the creators got sloppy.

The fanbase understands real sci-fi, that's part of the reason they love this series so much!

We are upset because of how disrespectful the ending was in respect to the entire series, themes, and precedents it set. Not because we 'don't understand real sci-fi'.

I'm sure the fanbase knows more about real sci-fi than any of these inconsiderate attackers who place these false acusations upon us.

I personally find this very insulting that someone would EVEN dare to place a judgement upon me and TRY TO TELL ME how I think, place words and thoughts into my mouth and mindI will not stand for this.

[UltmtBiz]

Personal insults take power away from a solid argument. That's why it's easy to ignore people calling ending critics "childish". It may make you angry, but why should you have to defend that you didn't like the ending? Do you have to defend that you don't like broccoli? Don't stoop to personal insults because it's easier to dismiss your valid arguments.

[Lambchopz]

UltmtBiz wrote...

Personal insults take power away from a solid argument. That's why it's easy to ignore people calling ending critics "childish". It may make you angry, but why should you have to defend that you didn't like the ending? Do you have to defend that you don't like broccoli? Don't stoop to personal insults because it's easier to dismiss your valid arguments.

Wait, you don't like Broccoli? **** you.

[VettoRyouzou]

You ask why we shouldn’t attack back in that manner.

Because we’re better than that, what people are not realizing is what going on here is beyond that of mass effect endings.

The people who started Re-take Mass effect is helping show the world that gamers are NOT the immature little kids that they pictured in their head, there NOT those people who are “30 and living with mom”. There not these people who go insane if you disagree with them!

They are just like anyone else level headed calm and mature over a disagreement; we are showing the world if anything something never really thought of threw the charity!Thus why we cannot lower are selves to IGN , Destructoid, or even Penny Arcades level, they are the main people who feed this “go go hipster” life style were we are all still 15 year olds ((Penny arcade not so much but still.))

They make money trying to keep gaming “trendy” and normally being trendy means you insult the idea of maturely being brought into it.

They live off the idea were ignorant slobs that blindly agree with anyone, and now gamers are shaking the ground under them and just like Bioware there trying to do PR control in bioware favor to get us mad to change the spot light of mature gamer to as they put it “immature brat”. 

Which speaks of their own maturity in a whole new light.

[JPR1964]

No personnal attack, no insult, but remains blunt and non conciliant with EA/Bioware...

Hold the line politely please!

/cheer everyone

JPR out!

[Sergeant Threat]

OP should be in politics. Different opinion than you? BASH THEM!

[MadMrMalkav]

AsheraII wrote...

The minute someone posts that he/she likes the endings, or even that he/she is okay with the endings, those who dislike the endings seem to take that as a personal attack. Nonsense like "you're stupid, you don't understand the Mass Effect IP" gets flung at them. I'm sorry, but to me it just seems that the haters who were previously trying to spew their garbage about SW:TOR have moved onto Mass Effect now. The haters at swtor went suspiciously quiet last week. Coincidence? Well, I simply don't believe in coincidence.

There's definitely some hate campaign against Bioware going on, and plenty of little children who should be too young to even buy this game tacked on to it to be with the "cool /v/ crowd".

Not really. I loved DA:2 despite its many gameplay and story flaws. It was still an enjyoable game. I still love SW:Tor and have played since the betta weeked. I have defended everything Bioware has ever done INCLUDING the day 1 DLC and Tali Shop as lazy/greedy but livable. However when they do something indefensible and that I feal is downright insulting to their fans such as the ending I have to join in and add my voice. Many of the others on the FB and forums of of similar mindset. These aren't angry childish haters trying to take down Bioware for some sinister reason, these are Bioware's msot devoted and loyal fans.

[firebreather19]

rabidm0ng0ose wrote...

majormajormmajor wrote...
Yet, conversely, you have articles like the one Colin Moriarty at IGN or Ben Kuchera at PA Report have done, essentially attacking people who hate the ending and questioning them personally. Instead of trying to defend the ending on its own merits, they resort to basically insults,  calling people entitled whiners who don't understand real sci-fi and just want happy endings with ice cream and cake.

NO, They don't know what real Sci-fi is. Joe Haldeman and Heinlien are REAL Sci-Fi, as well as Bradbury and Orson Scott Card.

Do you know why? Because they combined their stories with a combination of futuritistic predictions, moral themes and warnings about the future, political opinions, examination of what could go wrong and how bleak things can be, BUT THEY ALMOST ALWAYS HAVE A COHERENT AND HOPEFUL ENDING THAT PROVIDES CLOSURE, if not there is ALWAYS a silver lining. Why? Because they are responsible with the work they produce.

Some of the greatest Sci-fi stories ever written follow this formula. Let's take a look at these for a moment....

The Forever War
Starship Troopers
Fahrenheit 451
STAR WARS
Ender's Game series
Dune
Halo

The list goes on and on....

Mass Effect is REAL Sci-Fi because it incorporates all of these into all three games execpt in the ending because there is no cohrence, hope, and closure. It is abdunently clear the creators got sloppy.

The fanbase understands real sci-fi, that's part of the reason they love this series so much!

We are upset because of how disrespectful the ending was in respect to the entire series, themes, and precedents it set. Not because we 'don't understand real sci-fi'.

I'm sure the fanbase knows more about real sci-fi than any of these inconsiderate attackers who place these false acusations upon us.

I personally find this very insulting that someone would EVEN dare to place a judgement upon me and TRY TO TELL ME how I think, place words and thoughts into my mouth and mindI will not stand for this.

"Sloppy" is an inaccurate word.

Also, you asking Mass Effect to stick with the sci-fi mould is ridiculous. You should've said that in the beginning, then they would've made a linear game with no choices, no RPG elements, and a hard-as-nails male Shepard. Yeah, no female Shepard. Because in the traditional mould of video games, that doesn't happen. 

[firebreather19]

Also I'm finding it super ironic how everyone praises the Mass Effect series for being groundbreaking and original and so different from other games but hates that it doesn't give you a happy-go-lucky ending...





like
all
other
games.

Huh.

[GoblinSapper]

Because it violates forum rules and it gives the enemy assets to use against us, comport yourself with dignity and let them degrade themselves with trolling, but do not stoop to that level.

[firebreather19]

MadMrMalkav wrote...

AsheraII wrote...

The minute someone posts that he/she likes the endings, or even that he/she is okay with the endings, those who dislike the endings seem to take that as a personal attack. Nonsense like "you're stupid, you don't understand the Mass Effect IP" gets flung at them. I'm sorry, but to me it just seems that the haters who were previously trying to spew their garbage about SW:TOR have moved onto Mass Effect now. The haters at swtor went suspiciously quiet last week. Coincidence? Well, I simply don't believe in coincidence.

There's definitely some hate campaign against Bioware going on, and plenty of little children who should be too young to even buy this game tacked on to it to be with the "cool /v/ crowd".

Not really. I loved DA:2 despite its many gameplay and story flaws. It was still an enjyoable game. I still love SW:Tor and have played since the betta weeked. I have defended everything Bioware has ever done INCLUDING the day 1 DLC and Tali Shop as lazy/greedy but livable. However when they do something indefensible and that I feal is downright insulting to their fans such as the ending I have to join in and add my voice. Many of the others on the FB and forums of of similar mindset. These aren't angry childish haters trying to take down Bioware for some sinister reason, these are Bioware's msot devoted and loyal fans.

That's weird, because I'm pretty sure bioware's most devoted and loyal fans would probably think back to the previous 2 mass effect games, and the first 95% of mass effect 3, and assume since all of that was amazing, that maybe...just maybe...they know what they're doing, and that they should be allowed to finish what they started.

[Soma.E-Pro]

“With that, I will inflict upon the ME3 ending defenders the greatest insult an enemy can suffer. To be ignored.” -Okeer

Just stick to your guns and focus on the ending. Getting personal only makes us look worse and will give Bioware no incentive to even listen to our side of things.