341 réponses à ce sujet

[Mad-Hamlet]

There is a school of thought that goes- Do not just attack the idea, attack the mind that holds the idea.

That being said, any attacks have to be based on some form of argumentation. Simply, going 'You're a loserhead, nyah, nyah,' is counterproductive.

Case in point: You yourself noticed that the IGN article had no way to really argue in defense of the endings, restoring instead to simple generalization and labeling.

I refute it thus.

That being done, we can move on to better things.
See how easy that was?

[firebreather19]

To you your choices don't matter. I helped the Geth obtain personal freedom. I cured the genophage, i made love to a former Cerberus agent, and I murdered counselor Udina while he was trying to destroy the counsel. I also (under the veil of indoctrination or not) destroyed the reapers and maybe sacrificed friends in the process. Dont like the choice, fine...but it doesn't ever make me forget sacrificing someone on Virmire, or talking Garrus out of putting a bullet in a man's head, or trying desperately to save my crew from the Collectors.

[Motherlander]

I have no problem with people defending the endings. Up to a point, I even think the ending are valid and make sense.

Some people will genuinly like how it is done. In some ways, I envy them because, they will get a much more satisfying experience out of the game than i will.

But I would have prefered a more cliche ending myself. I spent a lomg time imagining how the galaxy would honour Shepard when he saved them, even if there was great sorrow and loss. But i got none of that.

[firebreather19]

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Not attacking personality, creating discussion.

How do we still have a purpose? We don't even have mass relays or weapons relying on mass effect fields and such. So assuming the ending is 100 percent legit, how are we in a better place than them?

Just saying, if Shepard's life (Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3) are rendered pointless because of the ending, then what does that say about normal people who have not an iota the excitement or purpose he/she did and will certainly never attain the heroic level he/she did? Is a life only important if it's ending is "ok"? Thane died in a hospital bed from an illness but I guess him saving the Dalatrass was rendered pointless.

If humanity finds out tomorrow that we have infact all been living in something akin to the matrix then yes it would all be pointless.
Choice matters, we never got a choice in the end. The choices we made throughout the series became irrelevant in the end.

How? Is Jacob not having a child? Are the Reapers still invading Earth? Is Samara alive or dead, and did you punch Verner in the face or try to be friendly? Kelly still kicking? You spend your time against the reapers with Liara or Ashley or Kaisen or Garrus? You had so many choices and appreciated none of them. 

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Because it's not only counterproductive, but petty?

[firebreather19]

Motherlander wrote...

I have no problem with people defending the endings. Up to a point, I even think the ending are valid and make sense.

Some people will genuinly like how it is done. In some ways, I envy them because, they will get a much more satisfying experience out of the game than i will.

But I would have prefered a more cliche ending myself. I spent a lomg time imagining how the galaxy would honour Shepard when he saved them, even if there was great sorrow and loss. But i got none of that.

I agree. That would have been awesome to be the big damn hero.

But it doesn't always happen that way. And it doesn't make the journey any less important. 

[Korhiann]

firebreather19 wrote...

To you your choices don't matter. I helped the Geth obtain personal freedom. I cured the genophage, i made love to a former Cerberus agent, and I murdered counselor Udina while he was trying to destroy the counsel. I also (under the veil of indoctrination or not) destroyed the reapers and maybe sacrificed friends in the process. Dont like the choice, fine...but it doesn't ever make me forget sacrificing someone on Virmire, or talking Garrus out of putting a bullet in a man's head, or trying desperately to save my crew from the Collectors.

How? Is Jacob not having a child? Are the Reapers still invading Earth?
Is Samara alive or dead, and did you punch Verner in the face or try to
be friendly? Kelly still kicking? You spend your time against the
reapers with Liara or Ashley or Kaisen or Garrus? You had so many
choices and appreciated none of them.

And they were all great moments showing that your previous choices mattered... Just not after the ending since it's even possible, if we go by the canon, that the relays go "supernova". Some if not most of the invasion force, including the fleet, starve.
If you like the choices in the end, fine. No skin off my back.

Earth, and all others systems with a relay in it, might have been vaporished. Jacob and Brynn might have been killed in battle, depending on where those who worked on the crucuble stayed after completing it.
No but then again there might not be much earth left to invade. Verner might have died anyway if he had stayed on the citadel. Actually I never saw Kelly so that was either me missing her or a bug, but still same goes for her as with Verner.
None of the above, doesn't really matter anyway since they are all stranded on a remote planet which will either kill all of them or just part of them.
Actually I appreciated all the choices I made throughout the series and the consequences that were shown in ME3, except the ending which again made them all pointless.

Modifié par Korhiann, 17 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Awesomeman24]

AlexXIV wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I find the endings to be conclusive and satisfactory in that regard, yes. Are there still questions? Heck yes. Would I support an epilogue sequence? Yes. But the story wrapped up, Shepard accomplished what she needed to in the end. We always will want more, that's the sign of a really good story. If the story had ended with the charge at the beam I think I would have to join the complaints against the ending. Guess I'm strange like that, but I wouldn't begrudge anyoen for having a different opinion.

I wished the story had ended with the charge at the beam. I can't accept anything the starchild says for true. It makes no sense. There are like hundret options that are better than wiping out civilisations and forcing them to 'ascend' into a reaper hull. And if I was a billion years old I guarantee I could find a thousand or hundretthousand options. They could just have not told us the purpose or reasons of the Reapers. I would have accepted that I could not understand it anyway. But his technophobia BS is cheap and it ruins ME. Not just ME3. That's why we must hold the line. Everyone can't have died for nothing.

At least you're now starting to sound civil about things.  When the thread started you sounded like a troll to me. 

I personally am in the boat of "I'm not mad at the endings but I get all the points made about why others hate it".  But that's kinda how I live my life, things never seem to affect me they way they affect others so I always seem to be neutral in a lot of situations.  If the ending changes then I hope it's for the better, if it doesn't whatever I had a hell of a ride and I'll keep playing the games.  I respect everyone's idea and I have not insulted anyone.

Insulting people solves nothing, you can be assured that if your movement fails it wasn't because people were being civil about it, it's because you stopped expressing your disappointment of the ending while giving constructive feedback and just started name calling the people who oppose your viewpoint.

Those individuals who like the ending, who are at the same time insulting your movement and the people involved have an advantage over you, they lose nothing by doing it.  If they insult you because they liked the ending and you stoop to their level and cause your movement to fail, then the endings that they had no problems with remain.

I don't consider to be apart of the movement.  I will still play the games, I don't have any plans to boycott anything from Bioware anytime soon, but I support all of you, or at least the ones who are being civil about the situation.  You're disapointed and many are downright angry and you're fighting for what you believe in and that's awesome and so I say to all of you.

Hold the line.

[firebreather19]

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

To you your choices don't matter. I helped the Geth obtain personal freedom. I cured the genophage, i made love to a former Cerberus agent, and I murdered counselor Udina while he was trying to destroy the counsel. I also (under the veil of indoctrination or not) destroyed the reapers and maybe sacrificed friends in the process. Dont like the choice, fine...but it doesn't ever make me forget sacrificing someone on Virmire, or talking Garrus out of putting a bullet in a man's head, or trying desperately to save my crew from the Collectors.

And they were all great moments showing that your previous choices mattered... Just not after the ending since it's even possible, if we go by the canon, that the relays go "supernova". Some if not most of the invasion force, including the fleet, starve.
If you like the choices in the end, fine. No skin off my back.

I'm indifferent about the choices. New ending DLC? Sweet. None? I can live, because the reapers are desroyed and I gave the entirety of organics the freedom to live out life, whether ending with their eventual extermination by synthetics or not.

That's a heavy assumption. Some of the brightest minds in the galaxy amassed together and they just starve? Hey if that's how you want to see it end, no skin off my back either.

But I know my Shepard enough to know he always finds a way.

[Swisspease]

Attacking the individual does not help the cause. Only by having civil conversations and debates will people take us seriously. Those calling us whiny, entitled, etc are not helping their cause by not seeing our side of the story. I will gladly debate with an ending liker the reasons why they liked the ending and why I disliked the ending. I will listen to them and honor their opinion of the game. They have that right just like we have the right to dislike the ending. Calling someone names becasue they do not agree with you is not beneficial to either camp and imo lessens your position

[Motherlander]

firebreather19 wrote...

Motherlander wrote...

I have no problem with people defending the endings. Up to a point, I even think the ending are valid and make sense.

Some people will genuinly like how it is done. In some ways, I envy them because, they will get a much more satisfying experience out of the game than i will.

But I would have prefered a more cliche ending myself. I spent a lomg time imagining how the galaxy would honour Shepard when he saved them, even if there was great sorrow and loss. But i got none of that.

I agree. That would have been awesome to be the big damn hero.

But it doesn't always happen that way. And it doesn't make the journey any less important. 

That is true. But being the hero savious at the end gives the game more replayability for most people.

ME is about replayability. But to encourage people to play the gave several times, I believe most people would like Shepard to be shown as a worthy hero.

By the way, that does not mean that he necessary saves civilisation as we know it. But it would be nice to see someone give some real appreciation for Shepard and what he has done.

I think tragic dark stories have their place. But for me, it doesn't have its place in ME. But that is just a personal opinion.

[Korhiann]

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

To you your choices don't matter. I helped the Geth obtain personal freedom. I cured the genophage, i made love to a former Cerberus agent, and I murdered counselor Udina while he was trying to destroy the counsel. I also (under the veil of indoctrination or not) destroyed the reapers and maybe sacrificed friends in the process. Dont like the choice, fine...but it doesn't ever make me forget sacrificing someone on Virmire, or talking Garrus out of putting a bullet in a man's head, or trying desperately to save my crew from the Collectors.

And they were all great moments showing that your previous choices mattered... Just not after the ending since it's even possible, if we go by the canon, that the relays go "supernova". Some if not most of the invasion force, including the fleet, starve.
If you like the choices in the end, fine. No skin off my back.

That's a heavy assumption. Some of the brightest minds in the galaxy amassed together and they just starve? Hey if that's how you want to see it end, no skin off my back either.

But I know my Shepard enough to know he always finds a way.

It's not really an assumption, well it is but there is lore to back it up. It takes decades to travel with FTL drives, to the other part of the galaxy mind you, so there's logistics to consider and of course there's the lore about species not being able to eat the same type of food.

I thought so too, but the kid beat that out of me with a swift kick to the babymakers.
Sure I can just make up what happens next, but it's just not the same for me.

Modifié par Korhiann, 17 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Souris]

1. I smell a troll.

2. While I agree that the endings are lacking, I'm not so passionately opposed to them. However, I do think they are overshadowing the rest of the game in most people's eyes entirely too much.

I have posted prior to this and I think my point got lost in the fact that I'm not entirely perfect at conveying what I'm trying to say. That being said, I don't think I deserve to be personally attacked - nor does anyone else for that matter, no matter which side they're on.

I have scoured these forums just like the rest of you have, in terms of ideas of what the ending could mean, my favorite is the Indoctrination Theory, and it's pretty much my head cannon right now.

I guess I'm extending the proverbial Olive Branch to "the other side".

Modifié par Souris, 17 mars 2012 - 02:33 .

[majormajormmajor]

That's good- I'm not inclined to be conciliatory. You people have done nothing but insult and demean us, and now you demand we treat you nicely?

[firebreather19]

Anyone who even suggests they like the ending usually gets a sarcastic slap of a comment, followed by being added to probably 10,000 people's hit lists.

Don't act like anyone here is innocent of anything.

[firebreather19]

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

To you your choices don't matter. I helped the Geth obtain personal freedom. I cured the genophage, i made love to a former Cerberus agent, and I murdered counselor Udina while he was trying to destroy the counsel. I also (under the veil of indoctrination or not) destroyed the reapers and maybe sacrificed friends in the process. Dont like the choice, fine...but it doesn't ever make me forget sacrificing someone on Virmire, or talking Garrus out of putting a bullet in a man's head, or trying desperately to save my crew from the Collectors.

And they were all great moments showing that your previous choices mattered... Just not after the ending since it's even possible, if we go by the canon, that the relays go "supernova". Some if not most of the invasion force, including the fleet, starve.
If you like the choices in the end, fine. No skin off my back.

That's a heavy assumption. Some of the brightest minds in the galaxy amassed together and they just starve? Hey if that's how you want to see it end, no skin off my back either.

But I know my Shepard enough to know he always finds a way.

It's not really an assumption, well it is but there is lore to back it up. It takes decades to travel with FTL drives, to the other part of the galaxy mind you, so there's logistics to consider and of course there's the lore about species not being able to eat the same type of food.

I thought so too, but the kid beat that out of me with a swift kick to the babymakers.
Sure I can just make up what happens next, but it's just not the same for me.

I'm sure they can't eat the same type of food, but it doesn't mean a new food can't be crafted until a more suitable solution is found. 

Either way, they were prepared for this. They made peace a long time ago, and knew they were heading into certain death. 

[Korhiann]

majormajormmajor wrote...

That's good- I'm not inclined to be conciliatory. You people have done nothing but insult and demean us, and now you demand we treat you nicely?

That's an overgeneralization and a false one at that.

[firebreather19]

Motherlander wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Motherlander wrote...

I have no problem with people defending the endings. Up to a point, I even think the ending are valid and make sense.

Some people will genuinly like how it is done. In some ways, I envy them because, they will get a much more satisfying experience out of the game than i will.

But I would have prefered a more cliche ending myself. I spent a lomg time imagining how the galaxy would honour Shepard when he saved them, even if there was great sorrow and loss. But i got none of that.

I agree. That would have been awesome to be the big damn hero.

But it doesn't always happen that way. And it doesn't make the journey any less important. 

That is true. But being the hero savious at the end gives the game more replayability for most people.

ME is about replayability. But to encourage people to play the gave several times, I believe most people would like Shepard to be shown as a worthy hero.

By the way, that does not mean that he necessary saves civilisation as we know it. But it would be nice to see someone give some real appreciation for Shepard and what he has done.

I think tragic dark stories have their place. But for me, it doesn't have its place in ME. But that is just a personal opinion.

If a grandfather is telling his grandchild about you years and years from now, and you're called "The Shepard"...you better believe you've reached a Messiah-like place in Mass Effect history.

[majormajormmajor]

It amuses me how you and that leonia creature are turning around and screaming persecution, when you are only getting as you deserve. Your side has relied on character assassination from the beginning, if anything the response that you and your ilk have been receiving for your provocations has been extremely restrained. The people in this thread are inclined to be a lot more merciful than I. And you have been abusing that goodwill.

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 17 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[darknessmyown]

Why should we not attack them? Our issue is not with them to begin with. Our issue is with the very poor excuse of an ending we have been offered from a game series we have all come to love. We are more then just dissatisfied with what we were given. We need to remain focused on why we are here, and that is to tell Bioware that we, their consumers, are not happy with what they have done at all and we are not going to stop holding the line until this matter is addressed properly.

Stand together, comrades. We must remain united and offer Bioware nothing that they can use against us.

[ericjdev]

I got no beef with someone who likes the ending, I think some of them are trolling and the most passionate among us forget not to feed those ones. Everybody's got an opinion and I have no expectation that anyone should share mine. I think for the number of people that have intense feelings about the ending and the fact that this is the interent make it surprising the percentage of folks on both sides that are being civil about it. The ones who go to far get more attention, but it's like that with all things. As one who hates the ending, I hope for change but think it's very important that we remain civil and patient while we hold the line, otherwise we run the risk of marginalizing ourselves.

[Korhiann]

firebreather19 wrote...

I'm sure they can't eat the same type of food, but it doesn't mean a new food can't be crafted until a more suitable solution is found. 

Either way, they were prepared for this. They made peace a long time ago, and knew they were heading into certain death. 

You might be thinking of Star Trek, as far as I know the ME universe doesn't have food replicators and I see no logical reason as to why earth would want to grow food for other species, other than trade.

True they were prepared to die for the salvation of all organics, which might not have happend given the possibility that the relays took out entire systems.
Also I don't remember ever hearing or reading anything about everyone being prepared for the endings that we got, from what I gathered it would actually been far away from what they expected would happen.

Modifié par Korhiann, 17 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[Souris]

People on the internet are scary

Some of my closest friends (one I've known for over half my life) are opposed to the endings. Why would I insult and berate them? Makes no sense.

[kjir]

A thread about and threatening ad hominem attacks? Why no End of Line already? I smell a troll or I smell a mole. Convenient rhyme.

Edit: No, seriously. I'd rather I see this thread shut down. This can't be going good places.

Modifié par kjir, 17 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[Souris]

kjir wrote...

A thread about and threatening ad hominem attacks? Why no End of Line already? I smell a troll or I smell a mole. Convenient rhyme.

Edit: No, seriously. I'd rather I see this thread shut down. This can't be going good places.

Seconding this.