341 réponses à ce sujet

[mupp3tz]

Personal attacks are a strategy of the weak. If anything, it signifies a lack of understanding of the material (to the point that you can't make a coherent stance) and naive realism (the inability to accept that others don't necessarily see the world the way that you do.)

It only creates a negative environment and makes you look stupid, on top of overly emotional.

Do I get frustrated and angry at some of the statements people have made about the protest and about the people supporting it? Hell yes. But that doesn't mean I'll stoop down to your level. Our upper hand in this is the fact that we actually DO have comprehensive and well thought out reasons why the ending was unsatisfactory and a disappointment. By outright bashing those against us, we're only feeding into the stereotype of angry fanboys/girls.

[TomekN86]

In respect to all the articles and reviews - it takes courage to admit being wrong, not a single review or article of "professional" sites even acknowledges that endings are subpar. There is no point in trying to win them over and there is defenitely no need to be agressive or insulting. The only thing that should matter is trying to make Bioware understand us and respond to our complaints.
Stay cool, stay focused, stay civil and polite, and do not let them forget about us.
Hold the line.

Modifié par TomekN86, 17 mars 2012 - 03:17 .

[augustburnt]

 Im guessing this is why stanley has been showing up.

[firebreather19]

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

plot holes? not really. released excerpts from the game revealed Joker did pick up the squadmates.

I haven't seen any mention of that, do you have a link as I would certainly be interested in seeing it.

Give me a few to find it, it was just audio that was cut from the full game, but it leaves it open to future gameplay.

[_NF_Von_Lipwig]

Detroitsoldier wrote...

Wow. It's amazing to think how self-entitled some of you believe you are. You think that, just because you paid to play the game or games in the past that you should dictate how the game turns out.

You also think that your "rational discussions" (read: personal attacks at the writers of the game, calling them unskilled and idiotic people) help your cause and prove to people that you are correct.

As far as I'm concerned, these articles were right. Most of the people complaining are no better than constant complainers who feel that everything should go their way.

I can't help but feel you're purposely misinterpreting most people around these boards. We're simply pointing out that the ending did not live up to the promises that were made prior to release. In fact, the ending we got is EXACTLY what we were promised we would NOT get. I think this gives us the right to ask for a bit of expansion in the ending department. We're not asking the present ending to be deleted in favour of one happy ending. Instead, most of us are asking for multiple endings to be added. This would:

A: mean they would live up to the promises they made earlier by including multiple varied endings as opposed to one ending that is slightly recoloured.
B: mean that people's choices throughout the game actually mattered, which would truly give people a personalised gameplay experience. Again, this was promised prior to release.



We are also not calling the writers idiots.  Pretty much all of us say that the ENTIRE game is phenomenal. 98% of the game is truly amazing and deserves all the praise it can get. Exactly for this reason the ending is so jarring; it's as if they used the ending to another game. It's as if Harry Mulish finished the book The Discovery of Heaven, and the final chapter was Dora the Explorer. It doesn't fit with the entirety of the game and generally doesn't make sense. We KNOW Bioware can do better, because we KNOW that their writers are very good. We've seen evidence of this in the very same game.



And a lot of us are kind of peeved about people attacking US as opposed to finding valid ways to defend the ending. The defenders of the ending are trying to discredit the Retakers by personal attacks and incorrect blanket statements rather than valid arguments.

[Korhiann]

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

I'm sure they can't eat the same type of food, but it doesn't mean a new food can't be crafted until a more suitable solution is found. 

Either way, they were prepared for this. They made peace a long time ago, and knew they were heading into certain death. 

You might be thinking of Star Trek, as far as I know the ME universe doesn't have food replicators and I see no logical reason as to why earth would want to grow food for other species, other than trade.

True they were prepared to die for the salvation of all organics, which might not have happend given the possibility that the relays took out entire systems.
Also I don't remember ever hearing or reading anything about everyone being prepared for the endings that we got, from what I gathered it would actually been far away from what they expected would happen.

I'm not saying food replicator, but you've got scientists with the Crucible. Scientists of all races who know the chemical make-up of different foods necessary for life. Not too far-fetched, I don't think.

Reapers are ending the universe. Three barely were destroyed in one game. It's not wrong to think that if you're going to war with the Reapers, there's a high chance you're going to die.

They would probably need to have live ships to actually cultivate the crops, which were in the battle if you had the quarians with you. Of course we have no idea if they survived. We also don't know if it would be possible to actually grow "alien" food on earth given the state of things.

Yeah that's not what I'm writing about. Obviously they are willing to sacrifice the invasion fleet for the sake of the rest of the galaxy, but what I'm writing about is the almost entire eradication of civilization as we know it, if the relays do indeed take out entire systems as they should according to arrival.
Death of the fleet =/= Destruction of entire systems and almost entire species. What would have prevented such assumptions was closure.

No, the Mass Effect relays shut down before exploding. That was a destruction of the relay structure and not the energy, so it wouldn't result in the same way. Kind of like detonating a nuclear bomb with the material inside it (Alpha relay) and not inside of it. The end result is just a destroyed shell. 

Well that's not how I saw it. I never saw them shutting down, I saw them shooting their colour beam and then going *boom*.
What I saw was an explosion and dispersion of energy large enough to be seen on the galaxy map. It sure looked like something that would take out an entire system, since they most certainly encompassed an entire system.
Of course the energy could just be harmless.

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

plot holes? not really. released excerpts from the game revealed Joker did pick up the squadmates.

I haven't seen any mention of that, do you have a link as I would certainly be interested in seeing it.

Give me a few to find it, it was just audio that was cut from the full game, but it leaves it open to future gameplay.

Oh... Well it's certainly possible that they will release DLC that's going to address some of the "issues" about the ending that people are having. But sadly that doesn't help much with the current state of things.
Still I would like to hear that.

Modifié par Korhiann, 17 mars 2012 - 03:14 .

[piemanz]

It's hard not to see you as entitled when every site has been review bombed, and the dev's have been called lazy and incompetant. Especially when you're talking about one os the best games of one of the best series in gaming history, just because the last 10 minutes wern't quite what you wanted...

Modifié par piemanz, 17 mars 2012 - 03:12 .

[Fuzrum77]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Just keep in mind the ToS.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this forum.

From both sides or just from us? Because then you can start going through threads looking for the word 'whiner'.

Definitely both, there is a lot of posts moving through this forum so it is hard to keep up with them all (especially at this hour). When a topic has the words "Personal Attacks" it is pretty hard to ignore. The debate currently is trending such of civil argument vs arbitrary which is acceptable.


Edit: minor spelling

To be fair, the OP has a point. And he has every reason to be disheartened by the "double standard" we're seeing when it comes to hating on the Retake Mass Effect 3 movement fans. But. The simple answer to his OP question is: Because we're better than that. Don't stoop. It won't help us. Let the people who laugh and insult us look like the unprofessional children they are. Eventually people will see it.

Modifié par Fuzrum77, 17 mars 2012 - 03:14 .

[majormajormmajor]

_NF_Von_Lipwig wrote...

The defenders of the ending are trying to discredit the Retakers by personal attacks and incorrect blanket statements rather than valid arguments.

Because they have none.

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 17 mars 2012 - 03:14 .

[firebreather19]

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

I'm sure they can't eat the same type of food, but it doesn't mean a new food can't be crafted until a more suitable solution is found. 

Either way, they were prepared for this. They made peace a long time ago, and knew they were heading into certain death. 

You might be thinking of Star Trek, as far as I know the ME universe doesn't have food replicators and I see no logical reason as to why earth would want to grow food for other species, other than trade.

True they were prepared to die for the salvation of all organics, which might not have happend given the possibility that the relays took out entire systems.
Also I don't remember ever hearing or reading anything about everyone being prepared for the endings that we got, from what I gathered it would actually been far away from what they expected would happen.

I'm not saying food replicator, but you've got scientists with the Crucible. Scientists of all races who know the chemical make-up of different foods necessary for life. Not too far-fetched, I don't think.

Reapers are ending the universe. Three barely were destroyed in one game. It's not wrong to think that if you're going to war with the Reapers, there's a high chance you're going to die.

They would probably need to have live ships to actually cultivate the crops, which were in the battle if you had the quarians with you. Of course we have no idea if they survived. We also don't know if it would be possible to actually grow "alien" food on earth given the state of things.

Yeah that's not what I'm writing about. Obviously they are willing to sacrifice the invasion fleet for the sake of the rest of the galaxy, but what I'm writing about is the almost entire eradication of civilization as we know it, if the relays do indeed take out entire systems as they should according to arrival.
Death of the fleet =/= Destruction of entire systems and almost entire species. What would have prevented such assumptions was closure.

No, the Mass Effect relays shut down before exploding. That was a destruction of the relay structure and not the energy, so it wouldn't result in the same way. Kind of like detonating a nuclear bomb with the material inside it (Alpha relay) and not inside of it. The end result is just a destroyed shell. 

Well that's not how I saw it. I never saw them shutting down, I saw them shooting their colour beam and then going *boom*.
What I saw was an explosion and dispersion of energy large enough to be seen on the galaxy map. It sure looked like something that would take out an entire system, since they most certainly encompassed an entire system.
Of course the energy could just be harmless.

firebreather19 wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

plot holes? not really. released excerpts from the game revealed Joker did pick up the squadmates.

I haven't seen any mention of that, do you have a link as I would certainly be interested in seeing it.

Give me a few to find it, it was just audio that was cut from the full game, but it leaves it open to future gameplay.

Oh... Well it's certainly possible that they will release DLC that's going to address some of the "issues" about the ending that people are having. But sadly that doesn't help much with the current state of things.
Still I would like to hear that.

Idk, I watched it like 5 times and saw the energy in the center hit by the light, power down, then the explosion of the Relay structure. 

[Bluefuse]

Seriously, think about it. If you liked the ending then it's probable that you did not pay attention to the story AT ALL.

[firebreather19]

majormajormmajor wrote...

_NF_Von_Lipwig wrote...

The defenders of the ending are trying to discredit the Retakers by personal attacks and incorrect blanket statements rather than valid arguments.

Because they have none.

Still looking for that joker vid, but have at it with mine broski.

[Korhiann]

majormajormmajor wrote...

_NF_Von_Lipwig wrote...

The defenders of the ending are trying to discredit the Retakers by personal attacks and incorrect blanket statements rather than valid arguments.

Because they have none.

Oh please, just stop it already.
The very least people can do is show respect for each other.

[majormajormmajor]

Korhiann wrote...

The very least people can do is show respect for each other.

Thus far there has been precious little from them, and so I do not feel any obligation to return the favour.

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 17 mars 2012 - 03:18 .

[Detroitsoldier]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Detroitsoldier wrote...

Wow. It's amazing to think how self-entitled some of you believe you are. You think that, just because you paid to play the game or games in the past that you should dictate how the game turns out.

You also think that your "rational discussions" (read: personal attacks at the writers of the game, calling them unskilled and idiotic people) help your cause and prove to people that you are correct.

As far as I'm concerned, these articles were right. Most of the people complaining are no better than constant complainers who feel that everything should go their way.

And there it is, laid bare for everyone to see- your average supporter of the ending. Why are we bothering to treat this type with any dignity?

Funny you should mention that, considering I don't support the way the story ended.

[firebreather19]

It's in this thread:

http://social.biowar...index/9787569/1

[piemanz]

Bluefuse wrote...

Seriously, think about it. If you liked the ending then it's probable that you did not pay attention to the story AT ALL.

The only thing that doesn't make much sense is joker going through the relay, everthing else is explainable through the lore of the game, and i'm willing to accept a minor plot hole here and there because every story ever created has them.

[Bluefuse]

Korhiann wrote...

majormajormmajor wrote...

_NF_Von_Lipwig wrote...

The defenders of the ending are trying to discredit the Retakers by personal attacks and incorrect blanket statements rather than valid arguments.

Because they have none.

Oh please, just stop it already.
The very least people can do is show respect for each other.

It's hard to respect someone's opinion who does not put a lot of thought into something, nor can express their opinion in any way other than by saying they "like it". They can't even say what there was to like about it.

[Aiyie]

because resorting to attacks against the person you're arguing with, rather than their argument, is one of the most basic logical fallacies.  ad hominem attacks do nothing to support your side.

unless you're just here to belittle others and don't actually care about making your points cogently enough to sway the other side.

if that's the case... have at it.

[Kmead15]

Detroitsoldier wrote...

majormajormmajor wrote...

Detroitsoldier wrote...

Wow. It's amazing to think how self-entitled some of you believe you are. You think that, just because you paid to play the game or games in the past that you should dictate how the game turns out.

You also think that your "rational discussions" (read: personal attacks at the writers of the game, calling them unskilled and idiotic people) help your cause and prove to people that you are correct.

As far as I'm concerned, these articles were right. Most of the people complaining are no better than constant complainers who feel that everything should go their way.

And there it is, laid bare for everyone to see- your average supporter of the ending. Why are we bothering to treat this type with any dignity?

Funny you should mention that, considering I don't support the way the story ended.

Don't tell him that! Now he has to start being disrespectful to the people that hate the ending. You know, an eye for an eye.

[Bluefuse]

piemanz wrote...

Bluefuse wrote...

Seriously, think about it. If you liked the ending then it's probable that you did not pay attention to the story AT ALL.

The only thing that doesn't make much sense is joker going through the relay, everthing else is explainable through the lore of the game, and i'm willing to accept a minor plot hole here and there because every story ever created has them.

You don't end a trilogy based on the outcome of your decisions with an obvious plothole.

[WazTheMagnificent]

Why on earth would you personally attack someone just because they like something you don't?

[Aiyie]

Bluefuse wrote...

Korhiann wrote...

majormajormmajor wrote...

_NF_Von_Lipwig wrote...

The defenders of the ending are trying to discredit the Retakers by personal attacks and incorrect blanket statements rather than valid arguments.

Because they have none.

Oh please, just stop it already.
The very least people can do is show respect for each other.

It's hard to respect someone's opinion who does not put a lot of thought into something, nor can express their opinion in any way other than by saying they "like it". They can't even say what there was to like about it.

just out of curiousity... but what does it matter if they like it?  what does it matter if they can't support their opinion?

are you losing money because of it?  are you losing friends because of it?  are you losing sleep because of it?

the first case only applies if you work for bioware... the second and third cases mean you need to step away from the game and go get some perspective.

[JrSlackin]

 

[majormajormmajor]

Detroitsoldier wrote...

Funny you should mention that, considering I don't support the way the story ended.

The mentality you demonstrate is a good representation as to how the other side has attempted to frame this debacle, so the comparison remains valid whatever your personal opinion is.

firebreather19 wrote...

It's in this thread:

http://social.biowar...index/9787569/1

That's very nice, but completely inconsequential unless this supposed ending DLC materializes and makes use of it. I could point to a storyboard of alternative scenes from the most abysmal movie in existence and claim "this might have made everything better!" but it will not in itself redeem the movie, because the only thing that counts is what mads it onto screen.